710: You Need to Get to Charleston with Kultura⁠'s Nikko Cagalanan

0:00This episode is brought to you by Resi and American Express. Resi is a digital platform that connects restaurants to restaurant lovers by elevating dining experiences, providing original industry content, and helping to fill some of the country's most exciting dining rooms. Because restaurants have always been more than just places to eat. The amazing world of restaurants is just a few taps away in the Resi app and at resi.com.

0:31like the way they're they're doing things the way he was doing it just um just cooking rice he has like 10 rice cooker like testing out every single like heat element or like how much water how long like the time i was like in the philippines we just click the rice cooker yeah it's button you got him, but he was thinking about it differently. Yeah, it was insane. This is Taste. I'm your host, Matt Rodbard. Nico Kagalanen is the chef owner of Cultura in Charleston, South Carolina. Born and raised in the Philippines, Nico began cooking in 2017 while still working as a nurse, discovering that the kitchen offered the same purpose to nurture, care, and bring comfort to others.

1:17In 2019, he moved to Charleston to fully pursue his passion for cooking and launched Cultura to great acclaim, including earning a James Beard nomination. It was a lot of fun having Nico in the studio to talk about his journey to professional cooking, as well as some exciting news from the world of openings. And at the top of the show, it's the return of three things, where Eliza and I talk about what is exciting us in the world of restaurants, cookbooks, and the food world as a whole.

1:51Eliza, we're back with three things. Happy New Year to you. Happy New Year. I wish we had kazoos to blow and fetti to pop. Are you hungover? Me, never. Never hungover, okay. Famously, never in my life. Yeah, I've... It's actually not true. Not true. I do have a patented technique to get rid of a hangover. What is that? Well, you wake up feeling terrible. You get someone else to make you coffee. You take the world's hottest shower and then you eat an everything bagel with sesame. Well, I can't even talk. You take the world's hottest shower and then you eat a sesame bagel with scallion cream cheese.

2:26Love that combo. The shower, then the bagel, and that schmear. Then you take a second shower after the bagel because it's probably gotten all over you because you're not at your best. Well, a second shower is always a good choice. I'm going to follow this. This is my New Year's resolution. You know, two hot showers. Well, luckily we're not hungover because we're recording this a little bit ahead of time. We are. But we have lots of things to share. We have things to share. You start. What's your first thing? Okay, well, I'm just going to say all of my three things are kind of cultural, like consumption related, but not necessarily food related.

2:56Because I feel like maybe if you're listening right now, you want, you know, something to watch over the weekend, something to read, et cetera. So my first recommendation is a book that I'm almost done with right now called Television by Lauren Rotherty. It was just released in December, and it's a debut novel. I think it's really smart and contemporary and fun, and it's loosely, I guess, like a three-perspective book that one of the perspectives is a very famous kind of aging action star, like Hollywood star. The other character is his longtime female best friend, sometimes more than that, sometimes less, who is trying to make it as a writer-director in Hollywood.

3:34and then the third character is another writer-director not in Hollywood. I'm still waiting to see how all of that connects. But it's really about, like, disillusionment with Hollywood. This actor decides to raffle off all of his salary for, like, basically a Marvel movie that he's acting in because he feels like he doesn't need it anymore, and then that sets Hollywood down some turbulent courses. I just think it's a really fun read that feels like both very kind of contemporary and also kind of timeless at the same time. It's giving BoJack Horseman vibes. Yeah, I guess it is kind of like BoJack in that it has this element of melancholy that's being set in L.A.

4:13And it feels kind of like inside the industry, but not the writer. Lauren Rotherty was a director, like music video kind of director mostly in L.A., I believe, prior to writing this book. So there is a certain degree of that kind of like trying to make it in the industry, feeling disillusioned by it at the same time. But I think the voices are maybe a little different than BoJack. Yeah, I love it. I read Colored Television a couple of years ago. Seems like a similar. Oh, yeah. I mean, similar title, similar setting. I think quite different in the approach. Quite different. We're like book clubbing this.

4:44Oh, yeah. Welcome to our new book club. Read if you like. But no, it's cool. I'm glad you've picked a fiction selection. And this is out from Astro House. What's your first thing? My first thing is I'm just going to be talking about the Catskills. I was just up there a couple weeks ago at the Jewish Food Society's Catskills weekend. I was interviewing Sam Sussman and had a really nice time. And I had a chance to do some discovery, make some discoveries up there. And the first was in the town of Hunter, which is where there's a great ski resort there for those ski fans. It's not quite Vermont, but close.

5:20it's it's the the hills are pretty high pretty tall high tall whatever it may be uh black diamonds moguls all that stuff but scribner's catskills lodge really cool spot i i really liked his 38 guest rooms um in the main in the main um era in the main building and 11 cabins um up top and i just think it's a cool place if you're looking to do a weekend away um up in the catskills uh This is a great spot to be because you're close to a lot of things, including the Fellow Mountain Cafe, which I really liked. I had a couple – it's an all-day cafe, and I had a couple really nice things there, a bowl of lentils, which is hard to, like, get excited about, but I was quite excited.

6:04What kind of lentils? They were like French lentils, you know, nothing crazy with the lentils, but they had roasted sweet potatoes, a slow egg on top and just really kind of that perfect like pre-ski, post-ski bite. But they also have heavier dishes like a bunch of sandwiches, like chicken salad, roast turkey, meatloaf, great pastry case. I tried a cranberry orange almond cake. They do egg sandwiches all day. It's like the all-day cafe vibe, of course, with coffees. And if you're up there looking to ski at Hunter, check it out. Fellow Mountain Cafe. I was quite impressed. Okay, I love that. My second thing is the TV show I Love LA.

6:45Have you watched it? I have. I've watched three episodes. I really like the show. Yeah, me too. And I honestly went into it not sure how I would feel about it. This is the new Rachel Sennett TV show on HBO that is set in obviously a very specific part of LA, which is people that are trying to make it in Hollywood or they're kind of like adjacent industries and being from L.A. and kind of, you know, aware that there's a very specific side of L.A. that's often depicted, which is the topic of this show. I was not sure how much I would feel about it, but I think the writing is just so smart and fun and it just gets funnier and funnier with every episode.

7:21So it's something that I really have been looking forward to. And I think that if someone has not watched it, it would be really fun to kind of like sit down with and work through. I would like it too because of the social influencer kind of milieu that they're tapping into. And then there's a lot of guest stars in it that are great as well. I love Iowa Debrey is playing like a pop star, like FKA Twigs type kind of early on. Felt very Twigs coded. They have a lot of like fun people that want to be a part of the show. Smart writing. Really, really funny show. And I have only watched three because I just haven't had time.

7:55But should I stick with it? Yeah, I mean, I'm not quite caught up either, but I'm going to watch more tonight. I've been enjoying it a lot so far. It's kind of funny because I feel like actually there are not a lot of – there's one really funny restaurant dining scene where one of the characters is trying to impress the server and is trying to be the dream guest who's like, oh, we'll order one of everything on the menu and we eat everything. and they're like choking on this food. They can't finish it, but they feel like they have to be the kind of perfect guest. So I guess that is a good food moment on the show, but I think it's more to me just about the kind of cumulative experience.

8:29Yeah, they had the Courage Bagel cameo in the first episode. Yeah, they do. There's like an arrow on toe at some point. I think other people probably could just guess the kinds of things that are on this show, but maybe it will continue to surprise me with what kind of LA it shows because it's not done yet. And they got renewed for a second season, which is cool. Yeah, I mean, we love to see original stuff happening in Hollywood in 2025, 2026. Yeah. What's your second thing? My second thing is I made it to Matilda. Finally, it's a restaurant from the folks behind Wild Air and Bar Contra, Jeremiah Stone and Fabian Van Halsk.

9:05And I like it. I had always wanted to go to it's in Hensonville, which is kind of like near the Wyndham section of the Catskills, which is where another ski resort is located. And again, the Catskills is like two and a half hours, three hours outside of New York City. So not far. Really beautiful terrain, particularly in the winter. And I liked it. I think it's a really cool restaurant. It's in a hotel, but it didn't have that like hotel restaurant vibe. It felt very much of its own. And a couple of highlights, chickpea panisse with green olives and parsley, really perfectly fried. I like that a lot.

9:44And they had a potato dauphin with ham and basil and a nice bavette that was American wagyu. And the sauce was a cognac mustard sauce, really terrific. And chocolate mousse for dessert, really classic desserts there. Cozy vibes, wood-burning fireplace, lots of wood. I highly recommend it. Matilda is a restaurant. I've been wanting to go ever since I heard that they opened something upstate, so I'm really glad that you had a nice meal there. Nice place. What's your last thing? My last thing is I'm going to give a book recommendation. This was not something that I mentioned in my top books of the year, but it was in my wings as my backup book, and I did really enjoy it.

10:24It's called Perfection. It's by Vincenzo Latronico. It was published in Italian in 2022, but the English translation was released in 2025. And it's a very short, gulpable book that follows a freelance creative couple in Berlin who are essentially searching for the perfect life. And their version of the perfect life is well designed. It is in community and it is like the coolest version of whatever life could be. And the problem with searching for that perfect life is that it maybe doesn't exist or maybe especially is harder to reach when you are an expat living in a country where you don't fully speak the language, where you don't have full rights to citizenship and where you maybe don't have a full understanding of the world that you're in.

11:11I think it's a really stylish book, which I enjoyed. And parts of it can feel, you know, close to home or at least like somebody that you maybe have met at a party before, even if you don't feel that way about yourself. The line from the book that has stuck with me is that wherever they went, the brand of oat milk in their lattes remained the same. So it also is about this kind of globalization of creative culture and the fact that you can go to a natural wine bar in London. That could also be in L.A. or Mexico City or New York or the kind of like confluence of aesthetics in that kind of way. It's a book that I thought about for a long time after I read it.

11:44And I think it was, you know, a kind of popular favorite for all of those reasons. I mean, Expat Life is always a rich text to tap into for fiction. And that disjointed, you know, that feeling that if you live in a country for any time, trying to grasp onto familiarity, I could see that being an interesting place to tap into. Totally. And I think for a European writer, like Berlin kind of exists in the creative ecosystem in the same way that like New York does here in the United States. So this city that, you know, accommodates all kinds of people that are coming there looking to pursue their dreams.

12:16But also, unlike New York, like the rent is pretty cheap in Berlin, at least at the point in time when this is being written. So there's just a lot of like rich moments of that to go off of. Cool. What's your last thing? My last thing is I'm sticking with food. It's not really a Catskills wreck, but one of the chefs I'm going to talk about is based in the Hudson Valley. I got to celebrate Hanukkah with Zoe Kanaan and Grayling Bauer. Grayling is of Sparrowbush Bakery, which is outside Hudson. And holy shit, I have not had a one-two donut punch like this in my life. Zoe's donut was amazing from elbow bread.

12:58I loved your interview with her, by the way. That was a really fun chat. I mean, she's such a wealth of pastry knowledge. It was fun to see what she had to say. So cool. I would love to have Zoe back whenever because it's just fun hearing her talk about pastry. She did a cornbread cake donut with saffron honey butter. And Grayling did a jelly donut with a pomegranate inside. And it was delicious. Cool. I really like Sparrowbush. It's based outside Hudson is the bakery, but they're also selling at the Hudson Farmer's Market on Saturdays. And they do bread for great restaurants in the Hudson Valley, including Eliza, Ines, Little Goat, and Stissinghouse.

13:41So I can't wait to – I think Rayling should come on the show is what I'm thinking. But it was great to sample some of these Hudson Valley pastries. Yeah. Well, it sounds great. Thank you for sharing your three things. Thanks, Eliza. I appreciate it.

13:59From February 20th to March 7th, dive into Canada's biggest culinary festival, Montreal en Lumière, an exclusive partnership with the McCord Stewart Museum and its exhibition, On the Menu Montreal, a restaurant story. The 2026 festival invites food lovers on a flavorful journey through time. Montreal's top restaurateurs will reimagine 65 years of the city's iconic astronomy, crafting inventive, nostalgia-inspired dishes with a modern twist. Prepare your palate. World-renowned chefs, including several Michelin-starred talents, will team up with over 80 of Montreal's finest local chefs to create unforgettable, one-of-a-kind menus.

14:41The full program is available at MontrealOnLumiere.com, presented by Lotto Quebec in collaboration with National Bank. Hi there, it's Matt, co-host of the show. We are currently running a This Is Taste listener survey, and we'd love to hear from you. Do you have a guest request? A restaurant you wish we'd visit to talk about on Three Things? What about a lesser-known cookbook author who deserves a spot in our studio chair? You can let us know by clicking the link in our show notes to complete the survey. It will only take a couple minutes, I swear, and will help us continue to make the best show possible.

15:19That's the This Is Taste listener survey, link in our show notes. Nico Kagalanen, welcome to This Is Taste. How are you? Good. Thanks for having me. I'm really excited about this conversation. I'm excited. I went to Kultura a couple years back, and it was such an original spot. Vibes are so right. Cooking was on point. And it really represents Charleston in the coolest way. Thank you. Yeah, I agree. such a small space, but I love that space. No kitchen, but it just feels right for us to start there. Yeah, it's a good, I mean, you have an amazing story, and we're going to get into that. But first, you're in New York.

16:02Yeah. You're maybe researching a new project. I'll let you reveal as much as you want. Yeah. Where have you been dining out? So we went to, first day, we went to Flushing. Me and my wife just ate some dumplings. And then my wife is Jewish. So we went to the bagel fest. Oh, nice. And she was in heaven. And then I was just in the floor sleeping with my hoodie on. But she was, yeah, she's happy. And then we went, yesterday we went to Deluxe Bow to get more dumpling and dim sum. Yeah. What are you seeing in New York right now? Oh, my God. so much. Our goal is just to eat more dumplings and kakegori and like noodles and yeah.

16:50You're thinking Japanese cuisine a little bit. Yeah, we're opening a Filipino Japanese concept. So like dumpling, kakegori bar, think of like Japanese daibar basically with like a small menu dim sum style where you check what you want yeah I love that yeah we're thinking early 2026 February or March we're getting there have you been over to Momofuku Noodle Bar I have not but I have their book forever since a long time legendary book because they do the check boxes too good spot well as I mentioned your story is really cool you moved from Boston to Myrtle Beach and you were in nursing. That was your career.

17:40You moved with your wife who had a career as well. You found some time on your hands and you decided to really become a chef. You commute two hours each way to work at Zero George in Charleston. Remarkable. Crazy. Yeah, that commute alone was like insane. I don't know why I did it, But yeah, there was just nothing for me in Myrtle Beach. That's why I did it. While Charleston has every restaurant in every corner has some amazing restaurants. That's why I ventured out to Charleston back in 2018. And yeah, I would ride a bus Wednesday to go to Charleston and stay in a hostel for four days so I can work.

18:35Thursday to Sunday at Zero George. And then Monday, go drive back to Myrtle Beach. And I was like staying in a hostel because I didn't know anybody. And I have a house in Myrtle Beach. So I was just there. Yeah, crazy, crazy first few years. You did that for a couple of years. Yeah, I did it for almost a year. Yeah. Yeah, and like every night I would have different, so it's like a bunk bed in that hostel. So every night I would meet different people in different parts of the world. It was fun and exciting until it gets like crazy on like Friday night or Saturday night. Yeah. They're just, yeah.

19:20I mean, it's just this dedication to doing this work and this drive to learn fine dining. I mean, tell me about where you come from, like, skill-wise to arrive at Zero George. I actually didn't have a lot of experience to get there. My goal, because I didn't go to culinary school, my goal is to just, when I was starting up, I want to work in, like, the most, like, fine dining places. Yeah. As all those, like, cooks are starting out, they want to go further. and learn from the best restaurant. And that was me back then.

20:06Yeah, no culinary background, like one-year experience, and I went to Zero George. But first I went to... I went to McCready's to Sajj with Sean Brock. That's how I get to Charleston. That's why I wanted to go to Charleston, because of Sean Brock. Tell me about that, because I know you emailed a bunch of chefs. Yeah. Many didn't reply, but Sean wrote back, and I love Sean. He's a great guy. I didn't email Sean. I DMed him on Instagram. Oh, no way. You dropped the DMs of Sean Brock, all right? Yeah, it was a very improper way to do it. But he did reply to me. It was actually like Charlton Wine and Food 2018 when, yeah, it was like, what are you doing this week?

20:52if you have time, come down and help us during Charlton Wine and Food. So I did. And that changed everything for me. Like the way they're doing things, the way he was doing it. Just cooking rice. He has like 10 rice cooker, like testing out every single like heat element or like how much water, like the time. I was like, in the Philippines, we just click the rice cooker. Yeah, it's like one button. but he was thinking about it differently. Yeah, it was insane. That's why he was one of the best. Yeah, so you're cooking at Zero George for a year. When does the light bulb moment happen when you realize that Charleston doesn't have Filipino food, at least in the style that you want to cook, and that you are going to move there from Myrtle Beach?

21:46So from Myrtle Beach, 2019, I was still at Zero George, and me and my wife separated around 2020. And then I just noticed there was no representation of Filipino food in Charleston. So I was like, I was waiting for somebody to do it. And I was waiting for an opportunity when I can do it. And I was helping this guy run his pop-up. it was fine. And then I was like, I can do better. And so I, back in 2019, early 2019, I run my first pop-up. It's called Mansueta's Filipino Food. Mansueta is the name of my grandmother. And I did it at this brewery and that's how I actually met my wife, Paula. And yeah, that's the first pop up I did is back in 2019 just kind of like a selfish reason I wanted to eat Filipino food and no one's doing it so I was like might as well do it myself and cook the food that you yeah yeah my style that I wanted your style yeah well I mean it takes off you get the brick and mortar for Kultura thank you I think I went pretty early when did you open?

23:102023 I think I went in the first six months yeah and it was brunch And as mentioned on top, the vibes were so right. Thank you. Just thinking of the menu, I mean, I just love, you know, kinilau. Yeah. Having a kinilau dish, which I think expresses Filipino food in such a unique way that maybe the folks who only know it from adobo and sisek. Right, right. But like, you know, acidity and coconut, I love it. Yeah. Yeah. That kinilau has been in a menu since day one. like three dishes like arroz caldo curry and canilao which is that Filipino ceviche has been in the menu since day one yeah even the arroz caldo which is the simple rice rice dish rice porridge and I don't think I'm gonna take it out of the menu it's been even during summer like it's a hot dish a hot bowl of rice and people still order it.

24:10It's good. And then talking about the quinilau, it's one of those dishes that it's like very Filipino. It's like vinegar, acidity, calamansi, which is like the lime of the Philippines, and coconut milk, which is one of my favorite ingredients, and a very simple tuna, a filet of tuna. So delicious, man. I mean, I love that dish, and your version is great. Now, Filipino food is expressed in many different ways around America. I mean, we've had Eric Valdez from Knox and Leah Cohen from Pig and Cow on. And great, we've had great conversations. I'd love to hear yours. How do you see yourself fitting into this Filipino food in America?

24:57Yeah. By the way, I love those two chefs, Eric and Atelier. they're one of those people that I look up to just because we all represent the same thing and the way they're doing it is amazing. Yeah, kudos to those guys. But yeah, on my end, trying to stay focused on like what my grandmother, what I remember what my grandmother's cooking is and also trying to stay local to Charleston farmers and shrimpers because we're very like we're right in the water yeah and like we have an amazing farmer peculiar pig farm where we get all our pork products uh tarvin shrimp which we get our shrimp it was like seven minutes away from the restaurant um yeah it's a it's a lot of like local produce so i think that's saying true to local charleston um farmers and shrimpers and like like staying focused on what traditional Filipino tastes and like infusing that on my experience as a young chef.

26:14How's business going? Business is doing well. So we just moved our restaurant to a bigger space. You did? Yeah. You're not in that cool house? Not anymore. But we're keeping that space. Cool. That's the space we're opening, a Japanese and Filipino concert. Got it. So you opened a new space. Oh, cool. I can't wait to visit. Yeah. It's like triple the size of the restaurant, of the seatings. Because back in the old space, it's just 17 seats inside. Yeah. And some patio seats. And now this new space is like 65 seats. Nice. Liquor license, a real kitchen. And mostly all of the seatings is inside. so we don't have to worry about being rained out.

27:02I know you had the cool patio vibe. It's a lovely patio, but it's also a pain in the head. It's a headache. Yeah, yeah. How's it been in the new space? Oh, we love it. Yeah, it's awesome. It feels good, too. It feels like a real restaurant right now. The vibe is right. The decor is beautiful. it's bright and yeah it's vibey a walk-in finally oh wow so you didn't have what were you using before we have like like just flat like chest refrigerators yeah yeah it's like a sandwich beverage like three of those and one small freezer the size of this chair yeah but yeah now it feels good that's amazing I cannot wait to visit it's super exciting Let's talk a little bit about the Charleston scene.

28:00I was on this show maybe two years ago talking about my visit and so many great spots. I mean, Vern's comes to mind right away. Oh my God. We love Dana and Bethany. They're great people and just one of the most, you know, I think one of the most exciting restaurants in America happening. But, you know, what else is good in Charleston? Give us a little check right now. I agree with Vern's. They just got their Michelin star. Oh, wow. Yeah, finally they serve those flowers. Chubby fish. And now there's a little bit more diverse representation in there from Bintu. She does West African cuisine. And then Shuai doing Chinese food.