718: How Brooks Reitz Got His Hands on the Holy Grail of Restaurant Training Manuals

29:51I brush my teeth like many times a day. And thank you, brother. I love that. Well, I appreciate you saying that. You know, I'm from Kentucky. I'm from a small town in Kentucky. And I grew up very culture obsessed because I won't say there was no culture in my town. There was culture there. But I was like going to Barnes & Noble with my friends and like reading GQ or reading film magazines and curious about the world outside of my little, you know, rural existence. and I've never lost that curiosity or excitement. I still get giddy when the plane is about to land in New York City. I'm not jaded by that stuff.

30:39I'm like, there's so much to experience and learn about and I'm just like curious and when I find stuff that's good, I like to get, I get worked up and I like to share it with people. Yeah, you have like this enthusiasm that pours off the page. I mean, it really does. I want to hear a little bit about your restaurants in Charleston and New Orleans. A little bit about you keep it in the background of your writing. You're not like a restaurant guy, but you clearly have a very busy life with those restaurants. Yeah, I tried to make this in my newsletter. I touch on the restaurants, and obviously a lot of it is about food, but I didn't want to make it like an industry restaurant-y newsletter.

31:24also because I didn't want to talk about my own restaurants too much because I don't know. I don't know if I can explain why. You don't want to be Will Gadara. Yeah, I'm not trying to position myself as the restaurant guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I think that is the reason why. Also because, you know, food, well, media in general, or anyone, journalists and stuff, it's easy. you want to put somebody into a tidy box and describe them easily. Right. And I've always been resistant to that. I'm kind of like, I'm don't just I'm not just don't call me a restaurateur because there's I do a lot of different things and that doesn't define me.

32:06And so I sort of always push against that a little bit. Yeah. And I have so many other interests that I like to. It's an it's an I have an outlet for the restaurant stuff. It's my restaurants. And so So Substack is my outlet to talk about, you know, art and travel and style and architecture and all that stuff. And history as well. I want to hear about getting your hands on the Houston's Training Manual, which you've written a little bit about. I think you told me offline about that. So I didn't know if you wanted to go public, but I think you wrote about it. Yeah, I did. Well, I wrote. I did an Instagram post.

32:44Okay. It went viral. Did it? I haven't checked in a long time. It was shared some thousand, some odd times. I had so many followers from that post, which I was not expecting. And I mean, it must have been 70 people that sent me DMs to see if I would share the manual with them. But of course, I was like, no, because I'm not trying to get tracked down. Well, tell us the story about getting your hands on it, because there's a whole backstory. Basically, I've always been – I appreciate Houston's Hillstone as a business model and as a model of efficiency and consistency. And so I've been vocal about that not only kind of in person when I'm talking to someone but also in my writing.

33:31and someone who I know who had worked for Houston's said to me one time, you know, I worked for Houston's in Florida and I still have the manual. Do you want it? I'm like, are you kidding me? That's like the holy grail of restaurant training handbooks. And so they gave it to me. then um when i posted about it actually someone else i knew sent me a note and was like hey i have some of their some additional manuals from another property i'll send to you and that's how i uh that's how i came into them what i can say is after getting those manuals and reading through them we have our own pretty exhaustive manual for our restaurants and i thought oh there'll be some stuff to glean from this, you know, Houston's manual, but the discipline their training program requires is frankly a discipline that I'm not capable of, nor do I think.

34:37It's something that in order to be as detailed as they have been in this manual, you have to start from the ground for as a new restaurateur. You can't 10 years in be like, we're going to shift to this type of model. It's culturally so baked into what they do that it was more I read it in admiration, but I didn't, there was nothing that I could really take from. It wasn't like a best practice being put into place after it. But when digging into this manual, were there any surprises? Were there any moments in it where you're like, that is brilliant? Just the level of specificity in terms of, and I get into some of this in my own manuals, but it's like they'll write scripts for their people.

35:21So it's kind of like when you get this question, this is exactly word for word how you respond. They're not leaving it up to that person to sort of like wrap at the table. It's a canned response. And I found that very interesting. And that is the kind of like granular detail you have to get into to deliver a service experience like they deliver at that place. Yeah. Descript your staff is a new level, but I think it's definitely being used throughout our restaurant world. You sometimes feel like— Oh, that you're getting the canned responses? I feel—and I think, like, there's some nuance in the canned, but it's like—I mean, Will has—second Will Get Your Reference, he writes about his book, you know, just, like, about kind of, like, scripting, just, like, vernacular vocabulary.

36:07Yeah, what's—what, like, Keith's gotten into this on Instagram, words that you're not allowed to say in his restaurant. I know, I think there was some—David Chang at one point had, like words that were outlawed in his spots. I definitely in my, in our training manuals, I give suggestions for ways to handle things. And I really like, we have pages where it's like how to handle when things go wrong, what to, what to do. And I, you know, give suggestions, but it's not, you know, it's, it's not sort of a command of this is exactly how you respond. I'm like react in the moment, read the guest. Maybe there are more casual guests.

36:46Maybe they're a little older and they like a little bit more, you know, to dress it up a touch and be a little bit more formal. But that stuff really interests me. I love getting into all that. Systems are wonderful to dig into. I imagine like, you know, like a nuclear submarine when you're like going through the code book. Yes. Like during an attack. Like I imagine the Houston staff doing that kind of work. Dude, the nuclear code book is probably shorter than the Hillstone train manual. It's so great. And I hope one day you could collaborate on getting that published somewhere. Yeah. A lot of people have asked me about my manual.

37:25Sure. And a lot of it is philosophy more than specific to my restaurants, you know. And I think it could be super useful to other restaurateurs out there. Well, Brooks, I want to get into some of your writing. And you recently have covered this pending British invasion to the U.S., which I know, which we've talked about on this show. And British Invasion meaning like just British food and sensibilities kind of infiltrating all styles of dining. I mean, Wilds in Los Angeles, for example, I cannot wait to visit is near the top of my list. We think about Dame and Lourdes in New York. And I think like we're going to, I'm going to call this the Anglophile portion because you've been not shy about your love of the UK.

38:08You've written about not just London, but outside of the country. and you really have a connection there. And I just want to first just ask you about this British invasion. What is happening right now? It's coming. So, you know, I think we're in this phase where you have the next generation of the St. John acolytes, certainly in London, right, that are cooking this highly seasonal, simple food that's prioritizing ingredients. And so in London, you're seeing a lot of this like next wave of chefs opening that had worked for Fergus Henderson or worked in, you know, under Margot Henderson at Rochelle Canteen.

38:51And you're seeing that kind of, I think, combined with this new pub renaissance in London as well. You have the Devonshire, which is selling like 20 ,000 pints of Guinness a week down in Soho that serves great food, but they're known for their Guinness. As featured in the first episode of the fourth season of The Industry, I believe. Oh, I need to watch it. Love that show. That show is great. Devonshire's in there. I think so. Very cool. Okay. I'll be watching that when I get home. So you've got that happening and you have this other group, the public house group that's opening these pubs. They sort of like new pubs appealing to the younger generation.

39:26The Pelican, the Heart, they have the Fat Badger, so on and so forth. then stateside you know what i think ultimately what i think it's a reaction to pubs are simple places they're community-minded places they're free of gimmicks and trickery they look simple they feel comfortable they're all about community and they are resistant in my opinion to this like gimmickry trickery of like social media tick tockification of a lot of restaurants where there's like people you feel as though this restaurant was designed for the Instagram social media moment or this dish is designed for the visual kapow rather than like, is this nourishing and tasty?

40:13And so I think we're primed for this sort of like pubification in the States on the heels of like Guinness booming worldwide. And then, you know, I've got the bell. You have the Wren in Baltimore. You have Wilds in L.A. You have Thomas Straker coming over from London, opening in the old Lucky Strike space. You have Jesse and Annie opening Dean's, the sort of seafood-focused pub. And they've called out Guinness as being a thing. You know, of course, the Lords and Dame crew. So I just think we're—this is a year for that to see a little bit more of that. and maybe some of the simplicity that is inherent in a British pub.

41:01How do you nail the aesthetic in the U.S.? How do you, like, export those vibes, those immaculate vibes? That's such a good question. It's hard, man. Well, a huge part of the pub vibe are the people. Sure. And, you know, you go through London after work, and you've got the, you know, the dudes crushing pints on the street, And you can't export that, unfortunately. And that cultural sensibility of boozing after work, which is alive and well in London. What you can export, I think, is, you know, there's like there are some sort of like aesthetic touch, you know, some touches like, you know, woodwork and crown molding and, you know, wooden chairs.

41:48And this kind of like classic, simple sort of it's not the you know, you have like the bistro look. And then there's this like specific pub look. And I don't know how to describe it other than you know it when you see it. It's a patina. I think like you can't have new wood smell. Exactly. Or and you can't you got to antique some stuff to look or buy old stuff. You know, when with the bell, the direction we decided to go in, you know, so we opened a pub in New Orleans. It by definition cannot be authentic. Right. So rather than trying to open this like replica of a pub, we really leaned into the British wit that is alive and well among the Brits.

42:28So it's a little goofy. There's a lot of like funny little sort of inside jokes. There's ephemera hanging all over, bunting, strung from the ceiling. And we invented a backstory of some British explorers who had moved to the U.S., to New Orleans, and had sort of started this little, like, explorers club in New Orleans out of our building and had gathered there, like, things they'd collected from their journeys over the years, brought them to New Orleans and basically strung them up from the ceiling and got together every week to drink pints. And that's the, like, story that's inherent in the – It's so cool.

43:06Like when you launch restaurants, do you write like almost a script? In my head. I don't ever physically write them. But I'm always there's a there we have stories about all of our restaurants. And and we use that to make decisions about everything. You know, certainly we you know, so my partner, Tim and I, we design all of our restaurants. And that's actually the part I love the most, you know, because I'm a storyteller. Yeah. Operating restaurants is not the thing I love. It's an unfortunate byproduct of owning and opening restaurants. And I've learned to, you know, get better at it. And I work with great people who are managing the day to day.

43:51But it's the design and the storytelling that like gets me pumped up. So it's like the food costs and the P &Ls maybe aren't like your jam. Not my jam at all. I'm very lucky that I have a business partner who that is her jam. Yeah. And she's very good at that. And they don't want me in there. It's a division of labor when it comes down to it. That's why partnerships are so great in restaurants. You find strengths and weaknesses and you get into your strengths. And I love the stories. I haven't been down to New Orleans in a while. So I got to check it out. How's it doing? How's the restaurant doing?

44:25We're about a year and a half in and it's going well. Well, it's been a slow start because it's a new market. New Orleans is a lot bigger than Charleston. And I think the thing I learned is that, you know, Charleston, we have the tourist in Charleston is different than the tourist in New Orleans. Now, I don't want to paint them all with the same brush. But, you know, you think about New Orleans, a lot of people coming to New Orleans are looking for the French Quarter. They're getting trash. They're eating po 'boys and fried food. and the bell is not that. You can get drunk as hell in New Orleans for a few bucks and that person is not coming to the bell.

45:10So I think it's taken time to find that because any restaurant really, the difference between just doing fine and really thriving is that extra tourist traffic. We have a great regular clientele and our neighbors show up for us big time, a lot of repeat visitors. Now we got to get that New Orleans visitor to the bell to sort of like get the gravy, so to speak. Yeah, get the SEC National Championship at the Dome. Totally. Coming in because those folks, they don't need to be drinking by the yard. No, and we, you know. They got taste. Yeah, absolutely. And we serve, I think, the best Guinness in New Orleans.

45:50Yeah. It's the first restaurant that I have TVs in. I've always been against televisions and restaurants because I'm like, it's not a sports bar. I'm not like a sports guy. But we have these like covers we design for them. So when there's not an important event on, they're covered up. But yeah, we're trying it like pubs are an everyman type of place. And so that's built into the concept, the food, the offerings, the way we communicate and connect with guests. You touched on this earlier about being a regular and regulars in your neighborhood. And I really think 2026 is going to be the year of the regular.

46:31We're seeing this bubble up. I'm reading some pieces about think pieces about regulars. Absolutely. We've been talking about the show for years and I and I think it's so important and I cannot stop repeating this is to support restaurants that have been around between two and eight to ten years. And I want to ask you about becoming a regular. Because I think in 2026, many are going to realize that clout chasing and going to only new and we're in this era of maybe bricking our phones and digital is bad. I mean, it's a great instinct to shift energy towards that. And I think being a regular is great because you don't need to post yourself at the new place to get something out of that meal.

47:13So, Brooks, how do you become a regular? It's the simplest thing in the world. is the good news for anyone who's listening who is curious about that, right? It's like you can be a regular after two visits in a way. Now, you have to follow that up with continued support, but, you know, I, so there's, you know, some restaurants, for example, I don't go out to eat much in Charleston because I love to cook. I have a young family. It just makes more sense for the cadence of our days. When I come to New York, I'm only eating out. So Borgo, for example, this will be my fourth visit today. You're underway.

47:54The last time I was there was my third visit. I connected with one of the people at the front door. I just said, like, great meal. I've been here three times. And I know Andrew, but, you know, Andrew's not always there, but he has been there several times that I've been there. You know, but you basically, you go one or two times, And then on the way out, you connect with the host or the maitre d' or the manager and you say, hey, this is my second visit. This is my third visit. I love this place. It's great. I'd like to come here more often. Is there a way that I can connect with you? Do you mind if I email you next time I want to pop in?

48:31I also think it's important to be, I can tell you as a restaurateur, I want people as regulars who are also like flexible and cool and who are not just like, look, I want to come in every Friday at 730 because I'm like, oh, geez, you know, I'd love to have you. but also everybody else does, right? I need you less Friday at 7.30. Where a regular is really going to shine is popping in on Tuesday at 5.30 and showing me that love midweek. And that is a person then that I would bend over backwards to book on the weekend or the last minute table. Because look, no matter what people tell you, every restaurant keeps a couple tables in their back pocket for that last minute VIP request.

49:21It's just, it's how it goes. Friends of the owner, you know, regulars, some celebrity in town. I mean, this happens all the time in Charleston. I get multiple texts a week. We keep tables back for our VIPs, our regulars, or, you know, like someone who maybe we don't have a relationship with, but like a comedian who's in town and wants to come to Leon's. It's like, cool, we'll slot them in before the show. But I think it's as simple as just going, connecting with someone there, being human, having a nice conversation, shaking a hand. Tipping well. Tipping well is great. Tip over 20, guys. Tip over 20.

50:02Yeah, yeah, yeah. You should always tip well. But that's not even that imperative to being a regular. You know? Yeah.

50:10So, and I definitely think that's a way to unlock. Then you get, you know, you get someone who learns your order or you get a buyback at the bar. You get that extra little love at the table. And it feels good. Great advice about being intentional with the GM or the person working the front to say, I'd like to come here more. It's great advice because, like, most good restaurants provide business cards with an email. Oh, absolutely. And once you have the email, it's like it kind of bypasses ResiNotify. For sure. We have a maitre d' at Leon's because that's our biggest, busiest restaurant. And it got to be where we needed someone whose sole job it was to control the flow of guests that sort of elevated beyond a host.

50:55And Beth is crucial to the development of regulars. And we've seen a huge change in the way we do business because of that position. Brooks, you recently wrote about Andy Boy Farm. And I wanted to talk a little bit about the home cooking on A Small and Simple Thing. Because it's not just wrecks and like cool restaurants. It's about home cooking. And I loved this. I've driven that same highway. I've been, you know, I think it was outside Salinas. And I see the farm that, you know, is the place where my broccoli rabe comes from. Totally. And you channeled this energy that I'm really familiar with that, like, I want to pay tribute to this thing that we know about in the world.

51:41We see the imagery, such iconic graphics there with Andy Boy, but you make a recipe around it. Tell me about what inspired this great little recipe you wrote. Yeah, I appreciate that. That was a lot of fun to write. We spent the summer in California. We were driving from Los Alamos, I think. We went to Bells. Bells, yeah. And we're on our way to Carmel by the sea. And we went through this little town off of the 101. And it was these fields of broccoli rabe or, you know, romaine and all the stuff they grow. And, you know, and so I love broccoli rabe. I love rapini. I think it's important for me also and just for anyone who sort of like lives and works within food.

52:27broccoli rabe is of course quite popular to us right or we know it so well but i always think about like what would my what would my aunt think about this post does she eat broccoli rabe and ultimately the answer is like no like a lot of people don't know broccoli rabe it's too bitter or it's a little too sort of esoteric um and so i always try to bring like any anybody who's in the food business is like, oh, broccoli rabe pasta. Maybe. They'd be like, okay, whatever. I've had it before. I've seen it before. Great margin, too. Exactly. And so I'm trying, I'm always trying to like celebrate the things that are at a normal person's grocery store just to, you know, that because you can go shop at a grocery store in middle America and they're probably going to have broccoli rabe.

53:18And I'm always, you know, I try to avoid specialty ingredients or anything that's overly chefy or specialty. And that gets back to the name of the newsletter, A Small and Simple Thing. And I like that simplicity, that approachability. And I wanted to shine a light on Andy Boy because they must be the nation's largest producer of rapini. And I also thought it made a cute name. It was a great tribute to the farm. Is there like a twist in the dish at all? I mean, it was the first time I added anchovy. So I, you know, disintegrate anchovy with the garlic, a little chili flake, broccoli rabe, and then kind of steam it in the pan.

54:00Lots of olive oil and, of course, salt and then a nice squeeze of lemon at the end. And it's great. I'm always also thinking about I have a young child, six-year-old son, and I'm always thinking about ways to introduce him to more and more vegetables and expand his palate and teach him about, you know, eating a variety of ingredients because selfishly it means we get to eat more and we get to go out to the restaurants we like rather than having to like work around his, you know, inclinations. This episode is brought to you by Hungry Root. If you listen to the show, you may know that I am a major fan of Hungry Root.

54:38I've been a paid, yes, paid subscriber of Hungry Root since 2018 and have had the company's founder Ben McKean sit in the studio for a conversation. The reason I love Hungry Root is simple. When I'm in a pinch for time to make an interesting and delicious lunch or dinner, Hungry Root always has my back. Hungry Root basically works like a personal nutrition coach and shopper by planning, recommending, and shopping everything for you. You start by taking a survey about what you like and don't like simply using thumbs up and thumbs down icons, and they take care of the weekly grocery shopping, recommending healthy groceries tailored to your tastes, nutritional preferences, and health goals.

55:18When the box arrives, there are several simple recipes. I've really been enjoying the rigatoni alla vodka with sweet Italian sausage. Hungry Root makes all of the pasta sauces fresh, and I've long been a fan of their pestos, marinara, and this creamy vodka sauce. And I can have dinner on the table in under 10 minutes. Hungry Root also has a huge selection of healthy groceries, everything from smoothies and quick lunches to kids' snacks and supplements. And unlike what you'd find in the grocery store, there's no junk ingredients in any of Hungry Root's food. They only source high-quality meat and seafood with no hormones or antibiotics.

55:59I love Hungry Root and recommend it all the time for my busy friends, and I hope you take this recommendation as well. And This Is Taste listeners can take advantage of this exclusive offer. For a limited time, get 40 % off your first box, plus get a free item in your box for life. Go to HungryRoot.com slash thisistaste and use code thisistaste. That's HungryRoot.com slash thisistaste, code thisistaste, to get 40 % off your first box and a free item of your choice for life. Well, I wanted to ask you about your investing. you know you write that you invest in food art and culture entities and including Blackbird and Mubi I have to ask you about Blackbird I've had Ben Leventhal the founder on three times I'm still not quite sure what Blackbird is maybe that's going to change in 26 I see they're involved with the NOMA launch which is really cool to see them aligned with that great thing happening in LA but what is it What is Blackbird?

57:05I describe it, you know, you can really get into the weeds on Blackbird because there's a whole Web3 blockchain technology underpinning Blackbird that has a lot of implications. But at the end of the day, Blackbird is a customer loyalty and payments app. So, and it's really made massive inroads in New York City. It's everywhere. I just used it for lunch yesterday. to pay my bill. So as an operator, here's what I like about it. And I'll start by saying I'm a Delta guy, right? I'm a diamond medallion. I get the upgrades. Not that it means anything, but they always come over and they're like, Mr.

57:52Wright, thank you for your diamond medallion status, right? So they know me sort of, you know, effectively. And I earn points, miles, when I fly with Delta that I can then use on other flights or hotels or whatever. So it only stood to reason when I was talking to Ben, who I've known for many years since his days at Eater, that my customer and I would also like that sensibility around restaurant dining. Meaning that if I like a coffee shop that I go to every day anyway, if I check into that coffee shop and I earn a couple points that can be transferred to real dollars, why wouldn't I check in using that app?

58:39So from the customer standpoint, it's a points. You can accrue points. What I love about it that's different than a lot of things that were out there is those points can be used across the Blackbird network. So I might earn points by dining at restaurant A, but I can pay for my bill at restaurant B using those same points. So it's a bit of a kind of a digital punch card. You're getting value. Exactly. Repeatedly going back, but you're also getting some kind of currency. But the old school punch card, I had to get 10 coffees at this coffee shop and I got a free coffee at that coffee shop. Now you get your 10 coffees and I can go to, you know, California and get a free coffee shop at that coffee shop.

59:18Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I like that. And then from an operator's perspective, there's a whole Blackbird pay component where you can pay your bill using the app. And I like it because it's seamless and it's easy. And there's been a lot of conversation about, oh, but then you're missing that human element of closing out the bill. And I'm like, that's the worst fucking part about going out to eat. Nobody cares about the payment. And frankly, as a customer, when I'm ready to go, I want to leave. I don't want to sit around waiting for the bill. There's no good part of that experience. It's always such a drag playing that little dance.

59:53Well, if you have somewhere to be, you know, so on and so forth. But what, you know, to get back to that Blackbird pay as a restaurant from a restaurant perspective, since they are processing that payment on a network they've created, it's a less, the percentage is less than what I pay to Amex or MasterCard or Visa. So that's real savings. annually to a restaurant, if you're doing four, five, six, seven million dollars in revenue and you're saving a percentage point on your credit card processing, that adds up to real money. And so I think there's huge, and there's a lot more under that, but I don't want to get lost in the weeds.

1:00:36And there's also like the back end when it comes to the operator side, which is a whole industry business model. Consumer data, customers, You know, you get to learn about customer spend and customers get to decide on Blackbird what they want to share with the operator, which I like because if you share that you are, you know, if you share your lifetime potential spend with a customer, with a restaurant, and you walk in at the same time as someone who hasn't shared that data and you're, according to Blackbird, a good customer, you're going to get the table. You're a diamond and you're going to get that table over this guy.

1:01:12Yeah, yeah. And I like all that. But your restaurants are squarely on Resi, though, right now. They are. But Blackbird's not a booking platform. They're totally different ones. Yeah. But Resi's been your pony for a while. Since Ben launched it, we've been with Resi. I know Open Table's making a lot of inroads, recapturing a lot of restaurants. But I like Resi. We have, you know, it's had a large adoption across Charleston. We were the first restaurants to use Resi in Charleston. Absolutely. and currently that pony is still performing. Well, yeah, I'm linking to the Resi link to your restaurants in the show notes.

1:01:48Sweet. We love Resi here as well. And thank you for explaining. Yeah, of course. I hope that did it justice. Ben will have to, he'll text me to tell me how I did. I tease because I think Ben has done a great job, but I think he's been iterating and he's due back this year on the show and I'll have him in. Lastly, before we get to a taste check, I want to ask you about skincare and beauty. You write about it really well. And I think, again, back to that, like you're giving recommendations, but you're not doing with judgment and you're not trying to flex in virtue signal. But why is it important?

1:02:21Such an interesting question. For us to care about our... Probably the first time you've asked that on taste, I would imagine. Maybe not. We've talked about beauty and wellness, but not recently, I'll say. Well, I'm very into health. And this is not some late in life adoption because it happens to be trendy, right? Wellness. I've had a gym membership since I was 16. There's a whole I've written about it. But like basically my two brothers, I was the middle of three. They teased me for being the chubby kid. And I was like, screw these guys. I'm going to join a gym. So it's and so at 16, I started lifting weights and I got myself healthy and I learned about healthy eating and cooking for myself.

1:03:08And it what became sort of a discipline in the beginning turned into a way of life that that sort of defines a lot of the way that I like shop for food, the way I enjoy restaurants, all that stuff. And so, you know, you you can like extrapolate out from there. You get into as you get older, like the skin care, health and beauty. Right. And really, I I've written about this because I think I came up in the era of the metrosexual. Right. Where it became OK now for men to make be into clothes or skin care. What a tricky and troubling time. Totally. But I remember vividly. But that paved the way for what we, well, some of the bad stuff now with like looks maxing and all this crazy stuff that's living on the internet.

1:04:00And that's way wacky. But my point is when I, I'll kind of give you my quick journey and then wrap it up because it has to do with food and restaurants. When I was working at Fig in Charleston under Mike Lotta, James Beard award winner, he's been on the show. He's been on the show. Dear friend of mine, he got pedicures. And I remember him saying to me or a couple of the guys who worked there, he's like, you know, I'm sure some guys were like pedicures, razzing him. And he's like, listen, you got to take care of yourself in this business. We're on our feet 12 to 14 hours a day. Yeah, I'm going to go take care of my feet on a day off and have them rubbed and have them like tended to.

1:04:40and it sort of like was like it was the first time I'd ever heard a guy like unabashedly lean into that and I was like yeah why should someone be ashamed or embarrassed about that so I started doing that and I was like man this feels good to be like tended to in this way and same with massage then I got you know I've been married with my wife for 13 years married for nine and she's actually quite a we're like right we meet in the middle uh of the Venn diagram because She's like she's a tomboy, like no makeup wearing woman with a very like lean skin care regimen. And I'm a guy who has a tendency to be a little bit more into all that.

1:05:20Exfoliating is part of your routine. For sure. So we overlap perfectly. And we so basically I use all of her stuff, all of the, you know, the lotions and moisturizer and all this. And I just feel like it's it's like Deion Sanders said. It's like, what, if you look good, you play good. If you play good, they pay good. Something like that. So it's all about like feeling good, feeling confident, you know, feeling comfortable and good in your own skin. It's not about anti-aging or trying to reverse or reverse engineer. But I just like to feel good. And I like for my sons to see a dad who is happy and energized about his day.

1:06:06and it all gets back to all that kind of philosophy about living. I love that. Well said. And just a reminder that you should be putting on an SPF moisturizer. SPF, baby. Just guys, like, you know, everyone out there, just put on that SPF moisturizer. Totally. We need to loop a skincare brand in to advertise on this episode. Yeah, I mean, it goes with, you talk about gut health, you talk about all sorts of diets and routines at restaurants. So why can't it, you know, kind of transfer to the skincare? Uh, Brooks on this is taste. We asked guests about the discerning taste. So to close this interview, here's a little rapid fire, fast and furious taste check.

1:06:43Are you ready? I am the best fruit. The one I eat the most is the banana, the cabin dish, but the best fruit, it is polarizing. Uh, that's my, my, my go-to, but I would say like my favorite fruit is like a California melon from like the wiser family farms in season. blow your mind. But I can't get those where I live. But you have some pretty nice melons down in... We got some good melons. Yeah. We get some good melons in the summertime. Yeah. But I'm going to say, I eat a lot of bananas. I love bananas. I use them in smoothies. I eat them with peanut butter. I eat them on sandwiches. I'm a banana guy.

1:07:22Yeah. I hate to say it. The worst vegetable. Rutabaga. Woo. Tell me, why is it so bad? I love vegetables. Yeah. Um, I have yet to crack the code on rutabaga. I've yet to have a rutabaga preparation that was tasty to me. Did you grow up with them in Kentucky? No, no, I didn't. Yeah. Um, I, you know, I did grow up with like mostly like a lot of vegetables out of a, of a can. Like I didn't have a fresh beet until I was probably like 19 in college working at a restaurant. And I love beets now. I mean, I love, I would say rutabaga is the only vegetable that I'm tepid on in my admiration. What is your typical breakfast?

1:08:05Oatmeal with peanut butter, pecans, walnuts, pumpkin seeds, and a drizzle of honey every single day. Breakfast routine is everything. We didn't talk about nut butters, by the way. You wrote very vividly about nut butters. Major nut butterhead. Specifically, I use cream nut, which is out of Michigan. They use Virginia peanuts. Hell yeah. It's the best peanut butter in the world. And I will just say as a quick thing, across from my hotel, this new nut butter coffee bar opened up from Paris called Buddy Buddy. So yesterday I went to check it out and I had a peanut butter latte. Not a thing I'm going to get again because it's not my style, but it was very good, just super rich.

1:08:45But yeah, I'm a major – nut butters make up a big part of my diet. Buddy Buddy, great rec. I got to check it out. I've heard of it. They had a cool write-up in the FT last year. That's how I first started clocking it. The best dessert? Oh, great question. I'm an ice cream guy. So I would say in America, mint chocolate chip ice cream. And in Italy, pistachio. Yeah. Gelato. Those are, that's, I'm a, it's funny you say the best because so much is tied up in the best. And I'm always, I'm like, favorite is my preferred word. So my favorite dessert is ice cream. Yeah, I love it. That's actually a better phrasing.

1:09:34Maybe 26 will bring a recasting of that question. All right, I love this question for you. A restaurant you wish you could bring back from the dead. Oh, wow, such a great question. I, well, so, you know, I travel a lot to New York. and I would be, I want to say something from New York, but what I'm going to go with here, which is not going to speak to many viewers, is a pizza place I grew up with in the tri-state area. I grew up in Kentucky, right on the border of Evansville, Indiana. And there is a pizzeria that's still around, but they moved locations and I think lost the special sauce called Rock-A-Bar.

1:10:18It's a thin crust pizza that you would be familiar with as like tavern pizza. But in my region, they call it Una Pizza, U-N-A. And I would bring back the original Rockabar, which was the background to a lot of childhood memories. That's good. When you're craving fast food, where are you going? I don't crave fast food. Really? Just not? I don't eat fast food. I haven't had, I tried In-N-Out last year. Yeah. Because I just, of course, people are like rave about In-N-Out. and I was like, it's fine. I was more interested and impressed with the operation than the food itself. I love it. It wasn't bad, but I was like - I was more impressed with the way that they took my order.

1:11:02For sure, I was. I was observing the whole system and it was very impressive. And the burger was tasty, but not at all something I need to have again. Your favorite city outside America to visit for food? London. Obvious. I feel if you read it. They just, they have, they have, and so many people like British food. But, you know, first of all, British food, the British food I'm eating is phenomenal. They have River Cafe is there. Some of my favorite Italian food in the world outside of Italy. And then there's just the broad spectrum of international cuisines that you can have in London at a very high level.

1:11:43Yeah, and if you dip into reading Vittles, you can get a taste of that. For sure. They just posted their top 100 restaurant. Oh. Such a great read. Cool. Worth subscribing to for that. Last one, your favorite sandwich.

1:12:00Great question. This is, I'm so curious as to what the comments will say. Tuna salad sandwich. Okay, okay, okay. Follow up. a lot of mayonnaise, no mayonnaise, middle mayonnaise. What are we doing? Middle mayonnaise. Okay. Yeah. I'm a very, as you've read some of my writing, I'm super nostalgic for a lot of the way that I grew up informs the way that I live now. I'm big on like traditions. And I grew up with a container of tuna salad in the refrigerator at all times. I love tuna salad. I love a great tuna salad sandwich. My wife teases me because, you know, these days I don't have to deal with this that much.

1:12:48But in our earlier years, if I was hungover, I would crave a tuna salad sandwich, which is the weirdest thing to crave. But at the end of the day, I'm a simple man. I fully endorse that. In my drinking days when I lived in the East Village, there was a little deli called Gracefully on Avenue A. And every time I was hungover, I would get tuna. You get the appeal. I don't know what it is. It was heavy on the dill, too. I think that kind of refreshed that cotton mouth at the end. But I love the choice. I love that. Cool. Thank you. What's the bread choice on tuna for you? Like a multi-grain situation.

1:13:24I'm not really a white bread. We didn't grow up with that kind of thing. But like a wheat berry studded type of situation. Love that. Brooks writes, thank you so much for joining This The Taste. This has been so much fun. Thank you for having me.

1:13:40This is Taste is hosted and produced by Eliza Abarbanal and me, Matt Rodbar. The show is edited by lead producer Clayton Gumbert and supervised by Pat Stango, director of media production and development at Penguin Random House. Thanks to Shalia Harris and the production team at Penguin Random House. Theme music by Steve Rydell. Episode portraits by Louise Zergon Pomeroy. Logo design by Ellie Skirzat and Ian Dingham. Visit Taste Online at tastecooking.com and make sure to subscribe to our newsletter to keep updated on all cool things in the world of taste.