720: A New Era For Fancy with Jerrelle Guy

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1:07Jerrelle Guy:It's not about having the expensive ingredients, but finding practical solutions, using your environment, and letting that creative process kind of take over you. This is Taste. I'm your host, Matt Rodbard.

1:35Jarelle Guy is an award-winning author and celebrated food photographer. A graduate of Rhode Island School of Design, she received her Master's in Gastronomy from Boston University and was nominated for a James Beard Award for her debut cookbook, Black Girl Baking. Today, she is back with a terrific new book, We Fancy, and we hear about her interpretation of fancy as well as how she thinks about developing recipes for all styles of dining. I hope you enjoy this episode.

2:05Jarelle Guy, welcome. This is Tace. Great to meet you. Great to meet you, too. Really impressive resume, your work as a photographer and a cookbook author. I just had such pleasure reading through We Fancy. It's just a really personal book. Yeah. And the visual identity is so unique. How do you think about blending writing and photographing a book? It's kind of a rare double threat.

2:32Jerrelle Guy:So for me, specifically when I came to We Fancy, it was a feeling that I was trying to capture. So I remember every time I got on set, I just asked myself, is this the feeling? Like every time I shot a photo and I'm, you know, propping it or designing it in any way, I just, you know, lighting it, like getting the right colors. I ask myself, does this make me feel fancy? Is this the is this kind of depicting, you know, or getting across the motion that I want people to experience when they open the book? Yeah, I love that. I mean, and just going back to all your work, it's it's you have a unique approach with the camera, the way you shoot with pans and hands and the way you shoot with just like this oversaturation.

3:18It's how did you find that? I mean, you went to RISD. You have a deep background in fine arts. But how did you get to that point?

3:24Jerrelle Guy:It's it's interesting because I feel like people say that I have a style, but I feel like the more that I just try not to have a style, you know, the more that I just do something over and over again. and I'm kind of outside of myself and not really thinking too hard about it, that people see something that kind of makes it stand out from something else. But I don't feel like I see that necessarily. I'm just, you know, really focused on the food and how do I want to eat it? Like, does it look good? Does it look finished? And I think I'm just asking myself, did I take it as far as I could take this photo before I kind of move on?

4:03Speaking of food, let's talk about food. When you're in New York, in Brooklyn, Manhattan, where do you like to go out? Okay, so I have a list of places because I don't get to the city that often.

4:15Jerrelle Guy:But I remember when I lived in Boston and we'd drive down to stay in Brooklyn, we would eat a lot at this restaurant called Buna Cafe for Ethiopian because that was when we were just very obsessed with Ethiopian food. And I haven't had it. I would go back again. I haven't had Ethiopian food in a while which is really sad but there were a lot of different places that I wanted to try like Theodora like have you eaten that yet? I haven't, no yeah like I just kind of crushed on them because I like saw their Instagram it happens, sometimes you just like want to go because of like this energy that's being put out on social it's so like I don't know, there's just like so I have to be careful about being on social media because it'll totally make you travel to other places.

5:05Banda's cool. Cool reference there. It's a great spot. You've been there? Yeah, definitely. Yeah, it's so fun. Over the years. Yeah, awesome. It's a good spot. Last night, we were walking around, and we went to Le Botaniste. Okay. And so they had like, so that's like 100 % plant-based restaurant, which is really cool. I mean, I don't know. We were just stumbling on it,

5:24Jerrelle Guy:and they had like this mango, raw mango cake that was amazing and so we had that for dessert and um and then they had like this omega-3 brownie that had like flaxseed on top and like a cashew cream that you just so it's just like super like garnished everything was like very considered and garnished and i liked that that was cool i feel uh made for the gram perhaps yeah maybe everything engineered but it was really delicious yeah that's good if it was delicious that's the most important thing the desserts are great um tell me about finding your voice after graduating risd and launching this this this travel and food website blog journal so yeah like after so actually the idea to start a blog came when i was living in uh when i was studying abroad in rome and um one of my classmates I was cooking dinner for our group and I would do these dinner parties and everybody would pay me some of their per diem and I'd go out and buy groceries and make a dinner every Friday or something.

6:34And she was like, oh my gosh, you should start a blog. And I was like, oh gosh, this sounds terrifying. I wouldn't even know where to begin.

6:41Jerrelle Guy:But I graduated and then another classmate of mine in fashion, and she ended up starting a blog. And I was like, wow, like she did that so easily. Like, I guess I can do it. And so I kind of just like launched it. Well, first I like did a lot of posts in secret, you know, that I never published. And then I finally got the courage to just like start posting. And I don't know, like, yeah, kind of just like slowly trickled into other things. And it's kind of just been like a hub, you know, like to kind of ground and like gather myself. Yeah, I know. It makes a lot of sense. Talk about going back to Rome.

7:17How were you designated the Friday night chef? How'd that happen? I don't know. Somebody suggested it. I feel like, because I obviously, so I'm with a bunch of artists. Like my major was illustration.

7:31Jerrelle Guy:So we're drawing, we're like studying architecture. We're doing all of this other stuff. And all I wanted to do was eat like Cornettos and like go to the cafes and pizza. So, you know, like my mind was totally not on what I was supposed to be doing. The old buildings. I was on the tonda. Yeah, yeah. Pizza, yeah. So I remember like drawing like illustrations of food, you know, like with the Roman architecture. Like, you know, like just figuring out any way to incorporate food into my work. And so, yeah, I think people just knew that I was really passionate about food and cooking. and I would cook, you know, just for myself or other people.

8:12Jerrelle Guy:And they were like, oh, like interested. And so then somebody suggested that. And I was like, that sounds amazing. Like I would love to do that. So I did it a few times and that was kind of, yeah, a really memorable experience. I love that. Well, let's talk about before we get to We Fancy. I mean, after the success of your first book, you started shooting cookbooks. You started becoming a cookbook photographer and you shot a couple of books that we published here. one from Tony Tipton Martin, Jubilee, and a great book from Rodney Scott. I mean, they're both Jubilee. I love these books. What was that like kind of segwaying from author to photographer of cookbooks?

8:51It was weird. Like I had to develop confidence on that. I wouldn't say that that was what my plan was at all.

9:02Jerrelle Guy:It was just an opportunity that came. And I was like, yeah, like, you know, like I could do something with my art. I can, you know, like turn it into a real career. I don't know. I just like use the resources that I had and I kind of just figured it out as I went. But those two books were really significant to me and they were both so different. You know, like I think the artists, the authors, you know, have such different personalities, different voices, different approaches to cooking and to life. And I wanted to kind of remove myself from that, you know, like remove myself and kind of look at life through their lens, you know.

9:40Jerrelle Guy:Yeah. And so I remember like when I was doing Jubilee, the energy of that was very like introspective. It was like, you know, quiet, home at the studio, you know, like feeling like I'm just poring over books, doing research, you know, like having this like inner dialogue. And I think for Rodney Scott, I was really excited because we actually got to shoot on site and be in his energy and kind of be around all of the people that he's kind of in community with. And like it's just so lively. And, you know, I remember the like pork pulling like scene when everybody's just like, you know, like around the pit.

10:22And like it was just so much fun. It's so visual. Yeah. You go to the back of the house of any of his restaurants and see the volume. of those whole hogs. Yeah, they're big. But we did that. We got a whole hog in his backyard. It was just hilarious. I don't know. But yeah, that was just a fun, it was a really fun project. And right before COVID, actually, which was funny. Just not. Yeah, well, that's a segue I like to grasp. Because I think while these projects were really enriching and great, you write that you were burned out after doing that and several other things. The pandemic happens as well.

11:06And I think this really informs We Fancy, like kind of thinking about where your career was and maybe slowing down. Talk about that transition from being very busy and doing all these photo shoots and then getting to We Fancy and this kind of new point of view. Yeah.

11:22Jerrelle Guy:So, I mean, I think there's so much that a book requires of you, even as just the photographer. Yeah. Like it really, like I feel like I poured all of myself into all of these projects. And I think you have to, you know, they're like little babies. I mean, you're not just only the photographer. I mean, it's like the most important role. I mean, the author as an author, like without a great photographer on a cookbook, there is no cookbook. Right. I think people do like that's how they get like looking at the photos. That's what they take in first. And that sets the whole tone and the mood and everything.

11:59Jerrelle Guy:Yes, it does. It is a lot of like pressure to get it right, you know, like to make sure you're really like. Yeah. So I did a few of them and I did some that I didn't even you know, like I did one for Weight Watchers where I did the photography and the writing and all of that stuff. And that just that was the end. I was just like, OK, no, like I can't anymore. You're helping other people tell their own stories. It's like being a surrogate mom. You know what I'm saying? And so I felt like I needed to find a container where I can pour myself in and like rejuvenate and like tell my stories so that I had.

12:37Jerrelle Guy:because I think that there's a there's like a aspect of creating that helps you kind of like get get out of burnout you know like when you're creating you're kind of like generating energy you know but it matters what you're creating you know and it matters what you're eating and like I think it meant something that I was making the food that I wanted to eat you know that that actually nourished me instead of eating a lot of the foods that you know were a part of other people's like upbringings and stuff like that and were told their stories and stuff like that so there was just like an element of needing to re-nourish myself you know after birthing and helping birth these other projects um i don't know if that made sense it does it does makes perfect sense and you have such a unique background because you know you you jump out into the industry with black girl baking you know this is like james bearded award nominee and like that debut book and then you go into that world of of collaborator the surrogate as you reference and then so it's like you were the author of this project and then you were in the background working as a commercial photographer and like the headspace must be challenging yeah and you needed that break yeah i think so i mean i love being in the background like i like i'm the production assistant for a food photographer there's yeah like it's it's nice because you don't have that extra pressure to be on.

13:58Jerrelle Guy:Sure, get it. But at the same time, yeah, like it is. Like you're like switching hats all the time and you know, like, yeah, it was a lot because I was also recipe developing a lot of dessert because of Black Girl Baking on the side as like a side thing. And that, like, trying to master how to recipe develop for the New York Times and all of these other places that have their own formula, you know what I'm saying? Their own audience. So that's a lot what it was. It was like I was making work for other audiences, you know, that it wasn't my audience. It wasn't my world, you know? um you've articulated really well the challenge of of of working with many different clients and outlets and i mean it was it was amazing like i love it yeah like i love that i got i learned so much yeah yeah doing that um but um and i think that that was what was important about we fancy was like just coming back to myself you know like just coming back home remembering like you know why I'm cooking in the first place, you know, like what my process is that gets me going, you know, because I think I took on a lot of other approaches to kind of like, yeah, like, I guess I don't I want to I don't want to say like fit in, but, you know, like kind of like adapt.

15:24Jerrelle Guy:Yeah. Yeah. And you're not coming at it negatively. It was cool. It was being in New York Times school. Yeah. Yeah. No doubt. This episode is brought to you by ButcherBox. Look, we spend a lot of time on the show talking about where food comes from, who's raising it, and how it's made. So when it comes to the meat I'm actually cooking at home, I care about the same things. That's why I've been using ButcherBox. I was just sent a two-pound chuck roast, and I made the most amazing pot roast. It was slowly cooked on the stovetop, and I put it together in minutes. ButcherBox delivers over 100 premium protein options straight to your door.

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17:17Find furniture decor and essentials that fit your unique style and budget. Head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R dot com Wayfair Every style, every home Let's get to We Fancy Just the term We Fancy It means something It doesn't mean expensive It doesn't mean fancy fancy It means something else You write about it so well in the introduction For the show Tell us a little bit about what that means

17:50Jerrelle Guy:So, okay So if I have to be just like completely practical about it. It means being resourceful. Yeah. Yeah. It means learning to use what you have in your environment to find solutions. Yeah. To make it through whatever challenge, whatever dinner challenge you're having. Yeah, totally makes sense. Yeah. And so, yeah, that's what it's about. And so, yeah, it's not about being, having the expensive ingredients, but finding practical solutions using your environment and like letting that creative process kind of take over you. So you're getting in this flow. I get it. Yeah. I see it because, you know, I think we fancy could be articulated as we clever.

18:38We're resourceful. We're, you know, it's like creative. That's it. It's like creative. It's exactly the way you think about the recipes if you read through the book because it isn't. It's cool. like I like the framing yeah let's talk about some recipes then I have to say I stopped on the hot pickle dip because that speaks to me big time does it? yes it does you love pickles? I mean do I know pickles? I mean do you want to do some rankings like brands or I mean half sour is mine I'm just going to say half sour from Cassie half sour is mine I'm just going to throw it out there yeah yeah yeah I'm just like I love pickles like I love tangy things I make pickle sandwiches Like I just do things with pickles that, you know, like maybe I don't tell everybody about.

19:24And so I'm just like, yeah, like let's make. So this one has giardiniera in it. And like I love that. I made like a sandwich, like a panini sandwich. I use the panini press in this book a lot, which feels really fun. But yeah, I don't know. Like I made a sandwich using those similar ingredients and then I just decided to turn it into a dip. So, yeah. So good. Giardiniera is great. Great secret ingredient. Yeah, it's really good. Not just for Tavern-style pizza in Chicago. Many, many uses. Okay, let's talk about the jumbo chili mac. What's the jumbo part? What's going on here? Okay, so that happened because I shot Rodney's book.

20:02Okay. And he had jumbo mac and cheese. And I'm like, I never knew that there was another size of mac and cheese, you know, noodle. And so just, yeah, like, and that made the recipe for me just more magical. Like, you know, like, why are we only using little macaroni noodles for macaroni and cheese? So, yeah, that was great. So it's like oversized shells is what we're talking about, or oversized mac. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what's the components in it? What makes it special?

20:33Jerrelle Guy:So, yeah, instead of just using, like, dried chili powder and stuff like that, I'm actually toasting dried chilies and, like, making a chili paste and, like, you know, simmering a chili sauce. and then throwing beans in there and, like, you know, adding these really big noodles that, yeah, pasta that make it feel, I don't know, extra cozy, extra just different, you know? Very nice. Yeah. So it's really smart recipe development. How do you approach recipe development when you're thinking about, like, 95 recipes for a book? Yeah, it's different from how I actually just cook in the kitchen, I think.

21:13Jerrelle Guy:Yeah. Yeah. Because I because I do more. It's more in my head. It starts in my head. Whereas when I'm actually cooking, I go into the kitchen. I'm like, what's around here? You know, and I actually find that when I go into the kitchen, I'm like, what's around here? The recipes are more creative. Yeah. And like they're ones that I like love and come back to it. I'm like very surprised by I'm like, that was really cool. Actually, that works. But the way that I approached this book was it was more like, yeah, how do I elevate like a like a weeknight dinner? That was how I approached it. And then I got into the kitchen and started to tinker around.

21:57Jerrelle Guy:So I thought of the things that made me feel really comforted because I think that that was kind of the heart of the book was like how to get back to that place of like feeling really good. and then I was just like okay now how do I like think about this a little bit like different like what like elements of this can just like just like spruce up a little bit right a little twist and I think leads to my next question this raspberry chipotle red rice is exactly what you're saying it's like sprucing it up or cause like putting raspberries in rice is I've never really seen it it's very cool definitely something I want to make and it seems very quite easy to make yeah that one actually did come up when I was just like in the kitchen because I had raspberries in the freezer and chipolets in the cabinet.

22:43Jerrelle Guy:And, you know, like we love making red rice. And so I don't know, I was just like throwing stuff together and it worked. I don't know. Yeah. It was just like really like, okay, like red, red. I don't know. I mean, it's hard to kind of remember exactly where my headspace was, but it was just, for the most part, just grabbing what was around. So it's like the tartness of the raspberries, but it still is a savory meal. Yeah. Yeah, it's a savory meal. Yeah. You just get a hint of raspberry at the back. Yeah. Yeah. It's a cool color too. Yeah. I mean, how do you think about the, so it's got chipotle paste or?

23:24Well, it all just gets blended together.

23:26Jerrelle Guy:Yeah. So I just, and then that becomes like the stock for the rice to kind of like pour in in the oven. Yeah. Very, very cool. Very cool. Okay. Rice Krispie Tofu Nuggets. Very cool. Like, what were you thinking about that one? So, actually, that had a different name at first. And, like, in my third draft, I was like, why am I not calling these Rice Krispie, you know, tofu nuggets? Because, you know, I think that will kind of bring people right back to, you know, the sweet. Yeah. And simplicity, too. And this is something you can make in blending something that's so well-known, the Rice Krispies.

24:05Everybody has Rice Krispies in their cabinets. Maybe, yeah. Many, yeah. I should get more. But to cook with it, it's cool. Yeah. So I also have a crispy rice as a topping garnish in the book. So you could do a lot of different things with it. But making it into a breading, I think, is cool. Because you see people use crushed cornflakes. you know but why not use all of the stuff from the pantry and crush it and see what it does like kind of that was my attitude i don't know let's try everything i like that and that's like is there like a dipping sauce how's that work like with the with the tofu yeah i made like a a maple um honey it was like a maple mustard yeah instead of honey mustard um and that was just really good i don't know like just a change from honey mustard i i think um i loved honey must i I love honey mustard.