721: 100 Los Angeles Burgers, Pizza, and Tacos with Luca Servodio

22:51I grew up in Europe. I'm Italian. Like pizza celebration, right? And it's just something that I've always – it's really been my gateway to loving food. And so I told my wife this and she goes, you can do that but you have to at least post it on Instagram because otherwise you're just going out there eating pizza and I want there to be at least something to show for this. So that's how that started that year. And after one year of doing it, I was hooked. It was just such a cool way to spend the year, to explore the city, to go to parts of the city you don't typically go to, to learn about new places.

23:26And every year since then, I've done a different food. And yeah, last year with burgers, which was probably the food I was least passionate about, there were definitely moments where I was like, this was a horrible mistake, to quote Job from rest development. But it was just, you know, I never really regret it because ultimately I'm always learning. I'm always experiencing new things. And I think the thing that's interesting is, yeah, we've got a social media account, but I really think of it as like a community. Like there's people who have been following me since the first pizza journey in 2021.

24:00And they've told me that they start to mark their years based on how many like pizzas or burgers or noodles I've eaten, right? They're like, oh, man, Luke has eaten at 70 pizzas. That means it's almost football season. You know that kind of thing? Interesting.

24:14Luca Servodio:Yeah. And having these fans that follow along each year. And let's actually talk about burgers a bit because it's a great topic. It's more of a commitment time-wise, I must say, than pizza. Pizza can be much faster. But like just, you know, the smash burger discourse was kind of unbearable, I would say, this year or last year and you were in the middle of this journey broadly speaking you know what's the burger scene like i mean la is the the home of the fast food burger yeah basically and what do you what did you learn from that year of of burgers i i think that i learned that la a lot of people like to say la is a this town or la is a that town like a donut town or a taco town right but la really is a burger town i i found out like yeah the the cheeseburger was created here in Pasadena, which I didn't know until last year.

25:01You nailed it when you said a bunch of your favorite fast food places that you go to have roots here in Southern California, right? And people are so passionate about their burgers. But I think what I learned is like, I do think we reached peak burger in general. I think burgers are on the wane right now. Like I, for a couple of years there, every new restaurant that was opening up, they lived or died by the like burger that they served with their martini at the bar, including horses, for example. And now I feel like that's shifted. Some of those restaurants are taking those burgers off the menu, like Dunsmore, for example.

25:36They had a sick burger that they decided to just 86 for good. And now I think we're moving more towards like a steak-fried future, which is a whole different conversation. But as far as smash burgers go, I think that they're dead and buried. Did I put the final nail in the coffin? You might have, yeah.

25:54Luca Servodio:I think this is the last word about burgers. But, I mean, where does Cassell's fall? Because that's my pony. I don't eat that many burgers in L.A., being honest. It's not really the thing I seek out when visiting. But I always stay at Hotel Normandy, and I love that Cassell's burger so much. Cassell's is good, although you might be disappointed to know, Matt, that I ranked it, I think, like 66th or something like that. Oh, you rank them. That's right. Oh, shit. So it's like 66th. Oh, shit. I mean, listen, I'm not fighting you. I mean, I trust you, man. Yeah. Yeah, well, but the thing is, like I take into consideration things like value, right?

26:27How well you're like executing on your concept. So it's not strictly flavor. Personally, I fuck with Cassell's, don't get me wrong. Especially those onion rings. Those onion rings are dope. So what's your top five then? Tell me. My top five. So number one, it's this pop-up called LeBurg. It's these two chefs from San Francisco who came down to LA and just wanted to like make excellent burgers. It's just like the best backyard burger you've ever had. And they spice it up with a little habanero aioli. I think that heat is like where most burgers like miss for me and they add a little heat. So I love that.

26:58The Benjamin makes a great burger on Melrose. Uh, Ludo is still making a great burger at Petit Trois, his bistro. It's like doused in Bordelais. It's amazing. I've had that. Yeah, it's good. And then the other two in the top five, oh, Oy Bar. It's a spot in Studio City. They make this burger that is a twist on a Taiwanese beef roll. It's just fantastic. And then the final one for me, it's actually this burger in South LA called A1. And it's just like$7 for a cheeseburger combo. But the thing I love about it is they pack their meat kind of loosely and they char the hell out of it. And it just gets this incredible balance of really great char flavor but still this excellent juice.

27:45They don't overcook their patties at all.

27:47Luca Servodio:So A1 in South LA on my list. Maybe I can hit it up. Vernon and A. Vernon and A. I can do it on the way back from LAX. I feel I can get there. Yeah. That's perfect. Like that. Thanks for that, Rex. Now let's pivot over to pizza. So you started these hundreds and 365 rundowns in 2021. You're returning to pizza this year. You're going to do 100 pizzas in the year. Tell me what's going into this. Yeah. What are your thoughts? Have you started yet? I have. I started. Actually, I'm going to be doing pizza number two today. I'm a little behind schedule, but don't worry. I'll catch up. You'll catch up.

28:24You'll catch up. So pizza, you know, I feel like 2021 when I first did it, LA was in sort of like a pizza startup mode. It was like, you know, like Silicon Valley during the dot-com era. Like it was, there was just so many pop-ups happening all over the place because people were pivoting to different careers and stuff. Now a lot of those concepts have matured. They've gotten better. They've opened brick and mortars. It's attracted more pizza makers to come. You know, we've got Daniel Holtzman from New York who opened his pizza. Shout out, Danny boys.

28:57Luca Servodio:You know that's my guy, but thank you for sharing that. I love his pizzas. I know, I know. So his pizza is great, and he's here in Los Angeles. Other people have opened. So I feel like Los Angeles has gone from this startup town now to, I think, making a case for legitimately, New Yorkers are going to hate this, but some of the best pizza in the city. And I think there are, I'm sorry, in the country. Yeah. I think, and I think there are real reasons for that. So I'm excited to explore it from that lens, right? Like what, what is Los Angeles really bringing to the party? What is causing this, right?

29:28Like what is driving this? And there's so many different reasons, but I'm so excited to look at it from that lens.

29:33Luca Servodio:Well, I can't wait to read and watch your coverage because I think one big thing about pizza in Southern California is that, you know, pizza is bread. And over the past five, six years, just the bread baking and just the real expertise and thinking about natural fermentation and just like the way different flavors can be coaxed out of the doughs. I think that that is a big part of the pizza culture in Southern California and why it's so strong. Yeah, there's that. There's obviously the fact like the same reason Rene Rizzetti came here, right? It's like the ingredients and the produce and stuff.

30:07So people really go off with like their toppings as well in really interesting ways. But then also it's the blend of cultures. Like we've got different types of pizzas being made by people from different cultures who just decide like, hey, yeah, I typically make Korean food. But guess what? I want to make pizza now. And this is how I'm going to do it. Like Pizzeria Say, right? This amazing place, Tokyo-style pizzeria that opened a couple years ago, right? And now is considered one of the best maybe in the world. So really, really excited for that aspect of it.

30:41Luca Servodio:Yeah. Well, I mean, it's a great pizza town. There's no doubt. And you have your work cut out for you to make that list. Do you do it at the end then? You reveal your list? Is that how that works? Yeah. Basically, like I do drop scores after each review. I try, you know, the thing is like, it's not like one bite pizza reviews, you know? I'm not just taking one bite. I sit there. I have this rubric, which if you saw, you'd be like, this guy is insane, right? But like, it's a full rubric that takes so many different things into consideration. And at the end of the year, I rank them. I do just because to me, it serves like a little bit of an archive.

31:14It does make me feel bad a little bit, right. To like put some pizzas in front of the others or burgers in front of the others. But, you know, fundamentally it's, uh, I, I, I think it's cool to just be on the list. Right. Um, and, and, and I, I don't go to places that I think are going to be bad. So honestly, if I'm going there, it means to be on the list is good in and of itself.

31:35Luca Servodio:Yeah. I love how your methodology, not everyone knows the rules. It's your own way of looking at it. And it's idiosyncratic and very informed. I think, Luca, you know food really well. You've proven it in the last 30 minutes in this chat because I think you really care deeply about it. I have a few more questions. One is just traveling the great state of California. We love California. We love going out there, not just L.A., but throughout the whole state. And I think you make an effort in your show and in your writing to cover the Southern California region, but also heading north as well. What excites you about traveling outside of LA?

32:14Well, I think what excites me right now is the fact that because LA has been such a challenging environment, there have been some amazing chefs that have decided to open concepts in different towns around Los Angeles, a couple hours driving distance, right? So some of the more exciting stuff I think is beginning to happen in towns that are hour and a half, two hours outside of Los Angeles. A great example of this is happening down in Carlsbad right near San Diego. Chef Eric Bost, who used to run a restaurant here in Los Angeles that was highly acclaimed, Auburn, just opened a restaurant called Lilo, which got a Michelin star in like 10 weeks.

32:53Like it's a crazy turnaround in terms of like, you know, from opening to getting that star and what they're doing down there. I think they're doing with a level of freedom and creativity that maybe wouldn't be possible in a city like Los Angeles, where I think people are trying to trying to basically like take safer swing sometimes when they're opening restaurants for economic reasons. So to me, that's what excites me about going out to these places. Another example is up in Santa Barbara, this really well-respected chef in Los Angeles, known for seafood actually. He's an oyster sommelier and just a guy who loves oysters.

33:30He decided to open his restaurant in Santa Barbara, and it's called Dom's Taverna. Very simple, like Basque concept, which runs on the very simple premise of just working with local fishermen to serve the best seafood, which, believe it or not, is not something that was necessarily happening in a town like Santa Barbara before. So, like, that's the kind of thing that's happening outside of Los Angeles right now, and that's really exciting to me.

33:56Luca Servodio:I love that you mentioned Eric Bost. We had him on the show about a year ago, and we interviewed him when he was building that restaurant, actually. So we really – I got to make it back down to Carlsbad. I love that you mentioned that and also just the great central coast and heading north. What a state. Yeah, there's so much. And honestly, like, you know, you say, you know, food, I do not, man. Like, that's the thing, right? Like, well, what I mean is like, I think I know how much I don't know, right? And so I'm always coming at it from like, I need to learn about this. And I think that, you know, when it comes to even exploring this great state, like, yeah, I just named two places, but there are thousands and thousands of places to explore.

34:38And I think that's what makes this so exciting. It's like, you're never done learning. You're never done exploring.

34:42Luca Servodio:Fully agree. I embrace that idea and culture as well with this show. You never end. Your journey never ends. And really, you're on your way, my man. Like, I really appreciate how you think about food and putting in the time and boosting small businesses along the way. And also having a strong opinion and saying stuff sucks, too. You can't just be – everything is not just all good. So, appreciate that. It's true. Yeah, it's true. It's true. Luca, on This is Taste, we ask guests about their discerning taste. So, to close this interview, here's a little rapid-fire, fast and furious. Taste check, are you ready?

35:12Luca Servodio:Oh, I can't wait. The best fruit? I'm going to go strawberry. Well, let's go there. What makes a great California strawberry? I mean, I think the sort of complexity of it. Like, yes, you have sweetness, but it's got just the right amount of tartness. The best time of year is when you go to the farmer's market and the first great strawberries are coming. I'm also just like a slut for anything with whipped cream and strawberries and whipped cream. That's the move. That's great. The worst vegetable? Easily yellow squash because people in college cafeterias do unspeakable things with them. Crimes against gastronomy for sure.

35:52Literally. I mean, just like make me hate something. That's how you do it. What is your typical breakfast? I'm actually an intermittent fasting guy. So this is not a great question for me. But however, when the pandemic was happening and it felt like the world was ending, I decided to revert back to eating cinnamon toast crunch every day. So I know that like within me, there is a yearning for Cinnamon Toast Crunch.

36:17Luca Servodio:I mean, it's definitely like on my podium for breakfast cereals. I mean, you can't just not have one bowl. That's for sure. Wait, it's perfect. Intermittent fasting guy and a food writer. How does this work? This is like some scheduling. You got to put in the scheduling work. Totally. And it's not perfect, right? Like it's not great every day. But yeah, I mean, the thing is like I won't eat breakfast, but then I'll have like three lunches, you know? Got it. So yeah, I'll stop eating around like 8 or 9.30 or something like that, resume at 12 p.m. or 1.30 p.m. the next day, but I'll be hitting up multiple spots.

36:51Luca Servodio:Yeah, it's like definitely the way – it's like you're basically always crawling. Exactly. Everything is a bang-bang. Nice. The best dessert? Tres Leches cake. Easy. And actually the best one I've ever had is at Manta, Enrique Olvera's restaurant in Cabo San Lucas. Because, you know, what's the knock on Tres Leches? Too soggy, right? But what they do is they brulee the exterior of it. So you get this beautiful crispy exterior, all of the like amazing Tres Leches softness in the middle. It's my favorite thing ever. A restaurant you wish you could bring back from the dead. There was this pizzeria in Los Feliz, actually in the spot that's now Kismet.

37:31if you're familiar. It was called Mother Dough. And at a time when there was not all of the amazing pizza in Los Angeles, that was my spot, my celebration spot. It was one guy doing it by himself. Nobody's heard of him and nobody's heard from him in a really long time. He just quit and went away. It was too much.

37:51Luca Servodio:But that was the spot. I mean, Luca, this is like a podcast for your 2026. What happened to the Mother Dough guy? That would be good. It's part true crime, but we don't even know if there's a crime involved. There's probably some crimes there. If you packed up and left, there's got to be something going on. Crimes against pizza, that's for sure. Yeah, yeah, crimes against pizza. When you're craving fast food, where are you going? I don't know if this counts, but there's this amazing chain of Armenian chicken places here called Sanku. Amazing garlic sauce. That's my go-to for what I consider fast food.

38:26However, on a more national level, I got to say Taco Bell. Like that's when I'm like black tar heroin, I'm going down Taco Bell.

38:34Luca Servodio:I thought you were going to say, you know, there's this like really great little Southern California chain called In-N-Out. I thought you were going to go there. All right. I don't know. I'm just like, I like In-N-Out. I like In-N-Out. I just feel like it's a little played out. Definitely played out. You can definitely be more creative in your dining choices in Los Angeles. Yeah. But that said, if you are in a pinch, In-N-Out's great. So I'm not going to shade In-N-Out. Of course. And value, you can't beat the value. Favorite city outside America to visit for food? I have to say Rome. I have to say Rome.

39:04That's my hometown. And it's just, you know, you're never not going to find something delicious in Rome, no matter where you are.

39:11Luca Servodio:How long did you live there? Well, cumulatively, I only lived there about five years. But it was the spot we would always come back to as home base while we were moving around as kids. So I spent all the holidays there. My grandparents were there. So cool. What a great city. That's amazing. Last one, your favorite sandwich. I mean, this is easy. It's PB &J. It's the perfect sandwich, especially with a little crunchy peanut butter to add a little texture. It's the perfect sandwich. I'm going to have one in probably 10 minutes. So I fully agree. Luca, this has been so much fun. Thank you so much for joining This Is Taste.

39:44Luca Servodio:Thank you for having me.

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41:09Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by State. Adele Blanton, Elliot Rosenberg, this is Tase. Thank you for coming on the podcast. Thanks for having us. Thank you. I always am so excited to get to talk to people who do indie magazines, especially indie food magazines. And I've just been really enjoying following along with waiting. So I think this will be a fun conversation. And to start, I'm wondering if you would tell me just a little bit about the idea behind waiting in the magazine.

41:43Absolutely. So Elliot and I both moved to New York just last year after we graduated from school in May. And I came to pursue comedy and satire writing. And Elliot was coming to work at an architecture firm and create his own design consulting practice. And we met in an improv group in the fall of 2024. Actually, it was like an improv 101 group that I was taking to kind of get a little bit more into the comedy scene. And Elliot was taking because he had done it in college. And for me, I started writing these like satire blogs, trying to get more familiar with the satire kind of language or whatever.

42:22And I got, as I looked for editing assistant jobs or assistant writer jobs, I got a position or I got a serving job at a restaurant on the Upper East Side. And I've always worked in restaurants, but New York just felt different because most of the people that I worked with and most of the people that I was meeting in, you know, open mics or comedy scenes that I was getting into worked in restaurants to sustain themselves while they were looking for, you know, exposure or while they were focusing on their creative pursuits. So I kind of started thinking about how there's hundreds of thousands of people in New York.

43:01There's so many people who come here looking for an artistic, you know, outlet, looking for, you know, exposure, and they don't really have a platform to stand on. They don't have a way to connect with each other or motivate each other. It can be a very isolating lifestyle to work a restaurant job and then kind of go home and work on your art practice. So I brought the idea of creating a magazine for people like myself to Elliot and early of this year, and we've been working on it together ever since. Yeah, I think it makes so much sense. There obviously is such a longstanding symbiotic relationship between people who work in the arts and the hospitality industry.

43:38I think obviously there are so many examples of people we now know as very famous actors or writers or anything who had that as their background. I'm curious what made you want to do a magazine as the best platform to be kind of showcasing that? Yeah, I mean, I love magazines. My background's in making and 3D. And so, like, when it came to spending our time doing something that we love to do, I think it felt very natural for us to pursue something 3D in that sense. Yeah, I love the energy that magazines bring to a space, the tactility, and just, like, how to actively build community. There's just, like, so much media out there, but neither Adele or I come from an explicit media background.

44:22So it was never clear what we were going to do with this idea. and so making something tangible that like people could come together around, connect around, share a meal with, and like really, you know, pass it along to a friend, tear out a page, interact with. It just like really felt natural to us. And yeah, I mean we had the idea for the mag. At first it was going to maybe be a blog, but the idea of creating a physical magazine just brought people together that we didn't even know knew each other when we had our first launch party. And since then, that became the physical magazine kind of became the backbone of all the other stuff that we've been doing since then.

45:03Yeah, Elliot, your background is in kind of furniture design. Yeah, that's correct. Yeah. And then Adele, you also are a writer and, you know, working in the service industry but haven't necessarily worked at a magazine before. Did you guys sit down with a stack of magazines from Casa and talk about like elements of them that you wanted to include? Or how did you like actually decide what the magazine would look like? I imagine that's a long process. Not really. We did not do that. You're like, maybe. We, no, we really, I mean, I remember our first, the first magazine that we put together was, you know, half the size of the one that we have now.

45:38It's a completely different, you know, we're working with different printer, it's different paper, it's, you know, it was a very, very much a baby version. and I think we were just so excited about the concept of waiting about the content that we were putting together about you know the writing the illustrations how it was going um from a design perspective as well that I didn't even you know I like grew up loving the New Yorker but I didn't really know and I didn't really have any magazine in the back of my mind that we wanted to be like or that, you know, I wanted the magazine to look like or feel like.

46:14We were just really excited to put together all these ideas. And then I think over time, we, you know, as we get really into the specifics of what a magazine needs to have, like a masthead or, you know, an editor's letter, you know, all these different things that are pretty standard, we've started to look at the magazines that, you know, are really popular right now or the ones that we love at Casa, the ones that we hear about and kind of take inspiration from them. But it did not start off that way at all. Yeah, I mean, we both have backgrounds in storytelling in different ways. Adele is a writer, and my background is in visual storytelling or 3D storytelling.

46:49And so we, I mean, I think one of our big strengths in starting out was, like, trusting that knowledge that we had and not leaning on, like, which magazine are we going to replicate or, like, which other piece of media are we going to try and be like. and really trusting like what we thought looked good, what we thought accurately told a story, what we thought conveyed emotion. And then of course, like Adele said, like when I'm in the weeds of the layout, like we're going through tons of different magazines to see like, is there a precedent for this? Are we going to be able to be on this plane of like professional magazine that gets taken seriously?

47:24And so in that context, we did do a lot of looking, but when it came to like what our pages were gonna look like, what our content was, we really just tried to like keep in mind our own like naivete you know to some extent and like the stories that we're used to telling yeah I mean I think it feels like a very well-shaped and organic publication and that I don't read it and think that you're trying to you know do a knockoff of something else it has its own kind of language and I wonder if you could tell me about some of the stories that you think are maybe like quintessential waiting stories and showcase like what the strengths of the magazine are?

47:59Well, you know, our past three editions really kind of fall into two main areas of language and writing. We have our artist profiles. We featured six artists with each edition we've done so far. And those are all story-driven artist profiles that are kind of, I write them from a narrative viewpoint. And then they're interjected with quotes from my interviews with these artists and I have sit down interviews with all the artists that we feature and those you know are the backbone of the magazine those are why we have waiting those are you know if we didn't have those we you know we I don't know who we would be so you know those are extremely quintessential and it's really fun to learn more and more how to write those in a way that's exciting and entertainment and entertaining but also brings together, you know, what we're trying to convey as something that needs to be celebrated, which is being a person who's working in the restaurant industry and actively pursuing an artistic career outside of it.

49:02So, you know, those stories are really important. And then on the other side, we have satirical pieces, which is kind of something that when we were sitting down to create the first edition, you know, we were trying to think of other things we could implement into the magazine. And Elliot was like, well, you love to write satire. Why don't you just write some satirical work. And I, you know, thought that was a great idea. So we have satirical pieces that speak on different parts of the restaurant industry, different parts of, you know, an artist's life. And those, I think, add kind of a New York pace and punchiness to the magazine that, you know, allows it to feel very, you know, street smart or kind of like down to earth.

49:44Yeah. Your third issue, which is most recent one, has a kind of like eulogy for the free bread basket in some way, which I respect and admire as someone who feels like there's not enough free bread anymore. I know. And you just did a, Cakezine just did a daily bread edition. Yeah. And you know, we didn't have a bread basket piece in the issue, which was something that we wanted when we set out, but we just didn't find the right version of it. I didn't think about doing a satire. That's definitely something I feel, that's where I feel most comfortable as a writer that way. And so it's so fun to kind of live this artist server experience while writing about other artist servers, but then allowing my view of that world to come through in these satirical pieces, whether, you know, that bread monologue is, you know, written and spoken from the point of view of a piece of bread.

50:34But really, I'm kind of talking. I'm complaining. Yeah, I mean, I think it's really, it's really, it comes around full circle when you have satire in our magazine because what we're doing in essence is giving ourselves jobs and creative pursuits, you know, while Adele's working in a service job. And I think like when we first sat down and was like, well, what could this magazine look like? We were also approaching it from the perspective of like, how do we create, you know, careers for ourselves, artistic careers, where we could do what we wanted to do, where we could create space for others who were pursuing this kind of thing.

51:07But for Adele, it was like, well, I want to be a satirical writer. So it's like, well, why not give ourselves room to do that? And it really made sense as well when you start to look at the magazine as a whole when the first edition came together. It was like, oh, that really feels New York. We're not an academic publication. We want people to be reading it on the subway or sharing it with their friends. And while it's really fun to share a profile or to go and see a new artist you've never seen, people also really like those hooks where they're seeing something they haven't seen before that's funny or just makes them laugh and draws them in.

51:37Yeah, and it's a point of connection for people who work in the industry. I mean, it's such a, you interact with all kinds of people and there are so many funny social dynamics at play, like in restaurants and like bars and all of those spaces here in New York that I would imagine, you know, the profiles are really a great way to showcase these people in this space. But maybe the universal experience of wearing black kitchen clogs is something that like other servers would be more likely to share with each other. Yeah, it's something that hopefully I think we talk about our audience all the time, who we want to be reading, waiting and who we want to be, you know, always waiting for the next edition to come out.

52:14And we really want, you know, our direct audience and the people we feature are artist servers. They're people who hopefully feel seen by the stories that we're telling, feel kind of, you know, inspired and motivated by these artists who we're featuring and want to both connect with those people, become a part of our community, and maybe, you know, apply to be featured in the magazine themselves. But then there's a whole other side of the people who, you know, aren't connected to these worlds and aren't in this kind of like very chaotic lifestyle who do live in New York or who visit New York or who are very familiar with going to a restaurant and talking to somebody or, you know, I don't know, ordering bread at dinner or not having to order bread at dinner.

52:54So there's, you know, it's always trying to hit this balance of, you know, really showcasing the lifestyle that an artist server has, but also doing it in a way that makes being an artist server seem alluring and, you know, like this kind of wonderful world to someone who's not even involved at all. And how do you choose the people to profile? They, when we first started, we, well, the first two features of the first edition were friends of mine. I work with one of them and then the other is a close friend who works at a bar near where I used to live. And then the other artists we just kind of found, you know, through mutual connections or just quick outreach.

53:39And then for the second two editions, we walk around with these like diner style guest checks. they ask if someone's an artist and if someone works in the food and beverage industry and then it has an email address they can email us at and that's you know we just hand them out to every restaurant we pass and that's how people you know they apply and elliot set up a complete structure system that they kind of filter through and then i give them a call and just choose from there yeah we like we tried to organize it but it got to the point where we would be walking in with the flyer and they already like recognize our face or like oh you're that magazine like yeah I already passed it to my artists or it's already in the locker room or things like that.

54:17So that has been such a wonderful way to get to know New York City as well. As two people who are a year and a half, two years into our time in New York is like really trying to traverse the entire city, all five boroughs and like talk to as many people as possible about our mission has just been wonderful. And it helps to build our diversity as well of features in a variety of ways. Yeah, when you're reviewing the submissions, are you weighing like the status of the restaurant they work at, the level of their career? How do you kind of find the right people to profile? I, you know, no, no restaurant status, no kind of level of career.

54:56I really, it's really just important that we have a diverse group of people from kind of all different, you know, in all different meanings of the word. I it's just very important to me that these people you know have are just different than one another in a couple in ways and you know they it's just important that they are actively pursuing their work. It's always interesting if they have a, you know, some sort of new thing coming or some sort of new thing that's just happened. In our third edition, we feature people who have just released albums, people who are working on publishing a book, people, you know, in the second edition, we had people who had just joined a band after looking for a band for months or, you know, just got a studio after they've been like crammed in their small New York apartment trying to oil paint and, you know, it wasn't working.

55:45So there's always a bit of, I always call them and have a quick like 10 minute conversation. And if I can hear a little bit of, you know, excitement or just kind of, you can just kind of hear the passion of someone's art come through the phone, even in a quick conversation. And so, no, we don't focus on the restaurant. You know, it's always good to have people from different boroughs or who work in different places. But it just matters that it's an active kind of passionate pursuit of a craft and that they, you know, clock into a restaurant a couple times a week. It's an interesting question, too, because we're also we're an arts magazine and we're a food magazine.

56:21So it's like, are we going to be curatorial? Are we going to leave reviews? and I think where Adele and I have started to land is that instead of trying to guide the reader to the best art in the city from our artists or the best food, it's a people magazine at the end of the day. So we're trying to share the stories of these folks, of their pursuits, of their efforts, and say, hey, here you can look at this person's art and you can hear their story. Feel free to go visit them here. And we're just trying to get them outreach to readers as opposed to saying, here are the best six artists in New York who you haven't heard about yet.

56:55or the coolest servers who you should ask about their arts career while you go and sit at the restaurant. Like, no, it's not like that. We're telling people stories. They're real people. And their art might be good. It might not be as good. And it's all because of where they are in their journey. And so we're following people who are trying really hard to make it. And, like, that grit, that hustle, that passion is what we want to come through in the magazine more than, like, the perfect, like, brushstroke or, like, the cleanest produced piece ever. You know, like we we will have some semblance of curatorial nature as we continue to go and continue to get more folks.

57:31But we like to curate the stories as opposed to the work. Totally. And I think thinking about the magazine as this platform, as this opportunity for people to reach a bigger audience, the visuals component seems to be really in service to that for me, especially the kind of portrait photography that exists in the magazine. It's really beautiful. And I think like it's expensive to print like that. It's expensive to produce those shoots. Like I feel a lot of kind of gratitude to seeing that because what you're providing is a portfolio opportunity for people to be able to be like, this is me in a print magazine talking about my work.

58:04Totally. That could mean a lot. Yeah. I mean, huge shout out to Dylan Gaduri, who's our photographer. We met him at our improv show for Improv 101 or 201 maybe. Do I have to be taking improv? This is crazy. You have to be taking improv. I tell everyone to take improv. It's so fun. It's a great way to get to know the city and just to get out of your skin for sure. Yeah. But yeah, Dylan, we met at a 201 show and he shot our cover shoot for edition one. That was the only photo he did there. And we just really meshed with him super well. He's got a great energy and he's been taking all the photos for our last two editions.

58:41And yeah, the portrait photography is incredible. Exactly what you said about the headshots. Adele's interviewing people who have never been interviewed before. They're not used to being in magazines or being in press. And so it's incredibly important how we hold them and how we treat them throughout the entire process, making them feel comfortable, seen and special. Right. So Adele has been teaching up Dylan on sort of how to do that through the lens of photo shoots. And they have a great chemistry and they're able to improvise incredibly well with with light resources to to create really nice portrait photography.

59:14and when we have talked about what we want the magazine to look like, a core element is basically to say, like, even if you haven't made it through the sense of, like, millions of people haven't found you or followed you yet, like, you're still special, you're still doing all this work that deserves to be seen. And so that comes through, hopefully, through the visuals of the magazine is, like, you deserve to be written about, you deserve to be seen by all of our readers. And that's sort of why we decided to let the images of the people really shine for themselves in clean, full-bleed photography as much as we can.

59:47The issue three cover is this beautiful group portrait. Did you get everyone together at once, or was that like a Photoshop magic? That was our first really produced shoot. Every other photo shoot that's a part of the magazine, the edition one photo was shot on a subway at 6 in the morning. The second one was shot at a bleacher stand, also at 6 in the morning in the East Village. And all of the photography, almost all the photography is shot at, you know, an artist's restaurant where we're just like, can we come in early before your shift and shoot you for like an hour? You know, it's very, Dylan and I are very scrappy.

1:00:25It's kind of the energy of the magazine, you know, just kind of like making do with what we have. But the Edition 3 cover shoot was the first time we booked a studio and, you know, brought people together. We had a stylist who designed the corset that one of the artists is wearing in the shoot. It's actually made of menus that the other artist designed for a restaurant in Williamsburg. So it was definitely the most curated and thought out and produced shoot we've had so far. And you also mentioned the shoot with all six of the artists, which was at a garden. And that was the first time that we've brought all of our artists together.

1:01:01and since the very beginning it's been about community building and so Adele and I have been talking about ways to just bring the cohorts of artists from each edition together and we're just going to continue to build that platform for each artist from every edition. But this was the first time that before print we got all six of the artists together to shoot a photo and I unfortunately wasn't there but Adele and Dylan ran the show and it was madness for sure. We're not used to these big productions, and neither are our talent, right? But we were able to scrap together like 10 minutes of photo time, and I think it turned out really well for our table of contents third edition.

1:01:43Yeah, I think I misspoke and I said cover, but it was the table of contents page. And I think it is so just fun to look at everyone all together, and it reminds me of a smaller version of the New York mag cover that they did of the most important people in New York. when they had everyone walk through the intersection, and then they Photoshopped that all together ultimately, I think. But just thinking about the logistics of the magazine, I had to ask. Yeah. It was so chaotic. We had planned to meet at Elizabeth Street Garden early, and then, you know, you have to shoot there with a permit. You can't shoot there just randomly, which is something we just should have known beforehand.

1:02:21So there was about 45 minutes of Dylan and I and our two PAs and our intern walking around to different parks in the East Village just trying to figure out one that was available to shoot at. And by the time we found one and the last artist arrived, we had, like, I think under 10 minutes to shoot them all together. And so it was just this extremely chaotic kind of just jumble of, you know, producing the shot. But it was a blast. It was a blast looking back on it. Yeah. And we love we like love the moments when we get to see the artists like connect with one another, because that's like what waiting is at the end of the day.

1:03:00If you're a barista and a painter in the Lower East Side or you're a DJ and bartender in Harlem, like you might have never met or have any reason to meet. But as soon as you meet with one another, you have so much to talk about. And we had our wine night a couple of weeks ago, which was our first event for artists in the service industry. and we were so scared. Like, well, all these people who have nothing in common per se, like they don't know each other and they come in, but they're all in the service industry. So they're all incredibly social and outgoing and they all have plenty of art to talk about.

1:03:31And it just, it went really well in that way. And I think similarly with these shoots, when we get to bring our artists together, of course they have so much to talk about because they have this in common. And that's like a wonderful proof of concept and validation for us as we're building this platform. It's just seeing the artists connect with one another. Yeah, I love hearing about the wine night and seeing you guys kind of bring events into the mix a little bit more. Can you tell me about what are some of your kind of plans or goals for the future of waiting? Yeah, we love the launch party theme.

1:04:02Shout out to Kigseen, who's really taken the launch party, I feel like, and made it wonderful, particularly in Brooklyn. It's like a Sisyphean task, so I salute you, but, you know, I apologize as well. It's great. So we're hosting our Edition 3 launch party on the 13th at Beverly's in the Lower East Side. And that's going to be our biggest public-facing event where people are just going to party and get magazines and hang out and sign posters and meet the features. And that's something that I really love about Waiting is that our talent are emerging artists and you can go and meet them before they get famous, right?

1:04:37Yeah. And that's just like a really fun prospect from someone who's coming in and visiting. It's like you get to see spreads of really incredible portrait photography and whole stories. And then you can show up for free and go and meet this artist and talk to them about their background. So the goal is that it's really accessible for, you know, people who are coming in who want to be artists or who are in the service industry to go and read the story and sort of get that leg up. Yeah, you mentioned events. I think we're going to try and tie some events in with our future editions for sure that are themed.

1:05:07bring artists of different varieties together to one another, like an improv night or a music festival. You know, these are all things that are on the horizon. Yeah. Yeah, just ways that we can sort of unite different sort of subcultures of the New York art scene and food scene together. And the wine night, was it a success? Do you think you'll do more of them? I think it was a success for sure. I think it was great. It was very intimidating and, you know, overwhelming to have random people show up and just hope that they end up talking to each other. But like Elliot said, it was very validating because I think, you know, even speaking back to what we were talking about at the beginning, where it was like, did you look at a stack of magazines?

1:05:47Did you, like, have this plan of what you wanted to do? You know, we didn't. We didn't. We just felt so confident in the concept. And we just felt so sure that if we could get this off the ground And if we could, you know, create this physical print edition, multiple editions to, you know, have people read and have people use as a way of connecting with each other in the city, then it was going to work. And then, you know, something, you know, something successful was going to come out of it. And so the Wine Night was the first, I think, like person example of that, you know, beginning to kind of work and have those gears start to turn of, you know, this is a physical magazine.

1:06:27This is awesome. And this is a way of like physically bringing people together, which was always the goal. So we hope to do a ton more wine nights in the future, just a ton more ways of bringing people, you know, together. And it's so fun to see. The best part for, you know, for me is getting to see the artists who have been featured in one edition come together maybe for the first time or, you know, after a while and see each other again. And they never would have met, you know, had we not kind of brought them together in an edition. And, you know, they've read each other's stories, they know about each other, and they're just happy to be in the same space with one another and meeting other people.

1:07:05So it was very special. I thought it was a great success. Yeah, I'm really happy to hear that. I'm curious about what your cadence is going to be like. You released three issues in your first year, which is really impressive. And I salute both of you. Is it going to be a, like, bi-monthly publication? Like, what's the kind of plan for 2026? Yeah, so we just felt a desire to continue to put out content. You know, the ideas kept flowing, the people kept flowing. And, you know, we just kept wanting to make more and more. And so 2025 in that sense has really been a whirlwind in a lot of ways putting together these editions.

1:07:43We don't have a particular cadence completely nailed down yet for 2026, but we're looking at slightly less frequent, larger editions and pairing that with some alternate forms of media so that we can stay as topical as possible. That's a big thing for us is that our artists are always moving around to different restaurants. They're always releasing different things. And the fear of a big print publication is that we can't capture those moments or guide people to those events or those shows. And so we're working on some really fun ways to make that type of content really accessible to our readers while also maintaining.

1:08:20Yeah, we're going to look at a newsletter. We're going to look at some other forms of print media that are a little bit more regular for sure. there's a lot of precedent in this sort of if you think about the East Village Eye in the 70s releasing newspapers every week and sort of becoming this cultural voice so we're looking at those types of references as potential avenues to get the word out for emerging artists and sort of bring this new lens in but definitely a print at least 95 to 100 pages publication that comes out fairly regular is the backbone of what we want to be doing with waiting just because of how in love we are with that form of print media.

1:08:59Yeah. Where do you guys print the magazine? So we print using the Logical Choice Group in the UK. I know you all are also UK-based. For anyone listening who's like, why do all of the American magazines print in the UK? The paper is so much cheaper, and the production, therefore, is a lot cheaper. Especially being here in New York, we can send the magazines over via boat or plane if people are on a shorter timeline. It makes it a lot easier. Yeah, totally. And we've, because neither of us are in the publication space, we've been so fortunate to just like meet people, like meeting you at Case Sensitive and meeting Greg from TLC was just through sort of early outreach.

1:09:37And so we've been really grateful to have so many just like wonderful connections. And our printing group in the UK was one of those where like they really supported us when we didn't know what we were doing. And now that hopefully we're starting to know a little bit more about what we're doing. Yeah, it's been it's been just really wonderful. Yeah, getting print through it's something that we never would have said we were going to be doing even a year ago. And now I think we're pretty good at it. Yeah. If you were going to go back and give a piece of advice to yourselves when you're working on issue one, is there anything you would say?

1:10:08Oh, my gosh. Wow. I think there's a ton of things that I would I would say. I think one of the things that we learn pretty constantly is the benefit of quick gut decision making. I think that's something that I, you know, learn a lot from Elliot and something that I feel I get really bogged down by often is, you know, I see myself as one of these artists that we write about. The magazine feels very much a reflection of the life I currently live. And so every decision, even if it's the smallest thing in the world, like I don't even know, just something that would take up five minutes, sometimes I get caught up in those moments because in my mind everything matters to such a heavy extent.

1:10:59But what Elliot's great at, you know, and I think what really helps in our balance is that, you know, we learn that we make a million decisions in a week. And the best thing we can do is move forward and learn. And, you know, sometimes the best decision is the one that just feels the quickest and feels like the one that can push us forward in some way versus the other. So I think we've gotten better at that. Yeah, I was going to say slow down, which is something that Adele and I talk a lot is like our pace. You guys, I'm worried. You're starting a newspaper, too, it seems like. That's a lot. Maybe, maybe not.

1:11:34Yeah, I mean, on one end, I'd say slow down, but we always have these conversations because I'm so proud of us and how far we've gotten so far. And I think we would never be in the spot that we are today to continue to grow weighting and continue to spread our audience if we hadn't worked as hard as we did. And so I think maybe instead of slow down, I would just say balance and say like the moments that we put out our best work were the moments that we were also like going to the gym and sleeping eight hours and doing all the self-care things that are hard to do when you're not getting paid by your passion and you're also working another job.

1:12:11Yeah. Yeah. And I shouldn't say I'm worried because I'm not like I'm really impressed and excited. And I think one of the things that I really was impressed by about waiting when I first met you guys was the fact that you had done three issues in a year. And I think there are a lot of people who start a magazine and there's just a lot of logistics and work that you don't even know about ahead of time that really, especially as someone who works other jobs, in addition to having a publication, like it can be hard to, and my co-founder is a pastry chef, works in restaurant industry. Like all of those things make it really hard to be regular.

1:12:42But I think having regularity and showing potential contributors or potential subjects that it's something that like has a lot of dedication and thought behind it is not necessarily the most common thing all the time when people start a publication. So I commend you for that. Yeah, well, I think it's just, we love the idea so much, you know, it is almost, you know, scary the lengths we will go to to make sure that, you know, something is high quality or something gets done or, you know, whatever. When you have, you know, we're just extremely passionate about what we do and the work we do and the benefit it could have and, you know, the, you know, sustainability of it.

1:13:19And, you know, we want waiting to be, you know, a staple thing that people love to read about and people wait for and people, you know, get excited when new additions come out. Yeah. I mean, not to turn this into like cake scene waiting podcast media hour, but I think if you have an idea that really fuels you, there will be longevity, right? Like you will have done two years of the magazine, three years of the magazine, and there will have been nine or 10 issues or however many things and all the events like you have time to do the things. And I think sometimes there's an urgency of like, I need to do this idea before somebody else does.

1:13:54But I think when you have so many things that are building upon each other, like you will reach the moment in time to do that thing. I think I must just have heard that stat. I don't remember exactly what it is about like most publications never reach it to the second issue. Isn't that like the restaurant thing, right? Like restaurants fail in five years or something. I definitely heard something at Case Sensitive, which is an independent like magazine conference that started last year. It's awesome and will continue for sure. But that like most independent publications like never reached their second issue or something.

1:14:25And something in there must have like struck a chord with me because I was like, we're going to get to our second one. And then once the second one was like, oh, well, there's so many things that we want to do for this third issue. And there's like this whole period of identity building and brand building that I think from just from a maker perspective, I like that was my personal instinct to like make more is because I just want an opportunity to iterate. and like develop our brand. And I think that the third edition, we're really starting to hit a stride of like, I could see us using this as a template moving forward.

1:14:55Yeah, that must feel really good to have like been able to reach that stage. I'm curious if working on waiting for the past year has given you guys each a different perspective on the restaurant industry here in New York. Maybe like Adele is someone who works in it and Elliot is someone who now knows all of these people who work in it. Yeah, I mean, I think, I don't know if it gives me a new perspective, but I think it has allowed me to feel more grounded in the perspective that I always kind of had in the back of my mind. I think when I moved to New York and, you know, started writing, started looking for these jobs that are next to impossible to get, you know, getting, you know, assistant editor jobs, writer jobs, anything like that.

1:15:42It made all the sense in the world to me to get a restaurant job. And then I ran into many people in my life who would tell me, oh, like, you know, you're college educated, that's beneath you. Or, you know, like, shouldn't you be doing something more professional with your time? Or, you know, all of these things that, you know, you kind of run into and that a lot of our artists run into and feel when they, you know, talk about their work as a server. and we could have never or I could have never built and contributed to waiting were it not for my server job. It pays my bills, it pays my rent and it gives me continual insight into a world that so many people aren't used to and that so many people look past so quickly and it really validates the whole kind of concept of waiting.

1:16:30You know, it feels so kind of cliche or cyclical but the more we work on it, the more, you know, confident I am that working in the service industry is such a, you know, hack to living in such an expensive, chaotic city and being able to do your art anyway. It validates kind of like the quality of, you know, work you can put forth while you work a job like this. Totally. And I think like the community that exists in that space and just the way of navigating New York, like knowing people in these places is all really helpful. But, you know, also like there are career servers in New York and like New York is one of the great restaurant cities where like people don't have to have a side hustle or a dream necessarily right like there are people like famous maitre d's and servers that have worked at restaurants for 20 years and like that whole industry that exists as well absolutely and there are people that I work with at the restaurant I work with right now who are in their you know older age like 60s 70s and they're just they are these career servers and they've just kind of dedicated their life to you know being a staple part of the restaurant industry.

1:17:37And the stories they have, the insight to the city they have, the, you know, level of experience they have and the way that they understand the people that come into the restaurant is incredible because they're not, you know, there is in waiting, there is this kind of very active energy of like, you know, this is my job now. But, you know, I mean, it's kind of the concept, like they're waiting tables, but they're also waiting for like their art to kind of like get more traction. and they're waiting to be able to spend more time on their passions. And for these people who have chosen to really kind of settle themselves into the restaurant industry, their mindset towards New York is so different and so valuable to get to hear and listen to.

1:18:21I mean, the stories that I get to hear from this one particular woman who I work with who has been in New York and worked in the New York restaurant industry since she was 17. She's 67 now. It's amazing. Yeah. And you mentioned like perspective, I think from a more external perspective, like what when we when Adele and I sit down and we try and figure out like what is one thing that we want everyone to be able to take away from waiting? Like what is the one effect that we want to have on society in 40 years from now of waiting? Like those are big lofty goals. And I think the idea is like whether or not you care much for the food and beverage industry or the arts world, like respect your bartender, like respect your barista, like talk to your server, like be a kind person at the end of the day.

1:19:06And I think the idea of humanizing the people who are, you know, making your cappuccino or serving you your Caesar salad, like that is sort of at a very, very baseline underlying level, like something that we're really hoping to continue to accomplish with waiting. And I think a lot of independent publications that do focus in the food and beverage industry are trying to do a little bit of. And, you know, while we want to tell these stories that are super complex and detailed and bring this super tight-knit community in together, we also just want everyone, regardless of what their personal interests are, whether they like magazines or not, to come away from just this concept and organization that we're building and say, hey like next time I go to a cafe I'm going to like ask my barista how they're doing or I'm just going to make sure I smile or like tip well and like these are very baseline things that that we obviously think that that everyone should be doing but you know through the process of building waiting hopefully we can like start to turn that culture around just a little bit.

1:20:05Yeah I think more kindness is is always a good goal to have. Thank you both so much for coming on the show this was so fun. Thanks for having us.

1:20:17Luca Servodio:This is Taste is hosted and produced by Eliza Abarbanal and me, Matt Rodbar. The show is edited by lead producer Clayton Gumbert and supervised by Pat Stango, director of media production and development at Penguin Random House. Thanks to Shalia Harris and the production team at Penguin Random House. Theme music by Steve Rydell. Episode portraits by Louise Zergon Pomeroy. Logo design by Ellie Skrzat and Ian Dingham. Visit Taste Online at tastecooking.com and make sure to subscribe to our newsletter to keep updated on all cool things in the world of taste.

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