731: 10 Years of Koreatown with Deuki Hong 

18:59Matt:Oh, my gosh. I so agree with all that. And I'll just add, I think it's really cool to see the formats change and Korean food being articulated not in barbecue settings or even in soup bowl settings. But, like, you'll see, I mean, cocktails. You mentioned it, like having a Korean cocktail community. And I think of, like, Irene Yu's terrific book Soju Party, which covers, you know, these Korean-style cocktails. I think about the guys at Kisa in New York and the cool work that they're doing and and expanding Korean food out of out of 32nd Street and also just thinking about different formats and doing prefix and and being elevated onto the New York Times top 100 restaurants.

19:45Matt:and it being not the one or two Korean, the default restaurants, but truly being some of the most inspirational food in New York. And then lastly, we have to talk about fine dining. I mean, Korean fine dining is...

20:04Anthony Randello-Jahn:Oh, what a renaissance and a revolution. I don't even know what renaissance is the right word. I don't even know why I used that word. That's a fancy word. I think it's a revolution. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, Matty. 10, 12 years ago, I think Danji was the only one. I think we freaked out as a Korean chef when Danji, which is the first Korean American restaurant that got a Michelin star. They got one star and we're like, whoa, that's possible? And that opened up a whole floodgates and credits to Chef Hooney to kind of really do that for Korean Americans, young chefs that saw that. I was like, okay, that door just opened up.

20:48Anthony Randello-Jahn:Let's go crazy with it. And crazy they did. And now in New York, it's almost cliche to talk about a Korean fine dining restaurant. Not in a negative way. I think it's a beautiful thing we've gotten to that point. To even add a little bit to that too is also we're not talking. and how could we forget Korean cafe culture, Korean pastries, the craze, you know, I run a bakery in San Francisco, so I'm like more in tune. I feel like pastry doesn't get a lot of love sometimes, but the whole salt bread and Dubai chocolate cookie, like these are Korean actual crazes, like people wait in line. The Korean cafes, obviously, Maddie, when you and I were in Korea.

21:33Anthony Randello-Jahn:We did a whole cafe tour. Yeah. A different level that that's being introduced to the American public. And, you know, we're here for it. We're benefiting just as a dining public general.

21:47Matt:This episode is brought to you by ButcherBox. We spend a lot of time on the show talking about where food comes from, the sourcing, the origin, the story behind what ends up on your plate. This is why I'm legitimately glad to be working with ButcherBox. ButcherBox delivers over 100 premium protein options straight to your door, including 100 % grass-fed beef, free-range organic chicken, crate-free pork, and wild-caught seafood. For over a decade, ButcherBox has led the industry with meat and seafood that's antibiotic-free, hormone-free, and independently verified. It's the clean, trustworthy protein you want to be eating, especially in this era where protein is more important than ever.

22:32Matt:As an exclusive offer, This Is Taste listeners can get their choice between organic ground beef, chicken breast, or ground turkey free in every box for a year, plus$20 off when you go to butcherbox.com slash taste. That's right, your choice of organic ground beef, chicken breast, or ground turkey in every box for an entire year. plus 20 % off your first box, and free shipping always. That's butcherbox.com slash taste. Don't forget to use our link so they know we sent you. This episode is brought to you by Rula. Here's something I think about a lot. We use our insurance for everything. A doctor's visit, a specialist, a dentist appointment we've been putting off for a year.

23:20Matt:But when it comes to mental health care, suddenly we're expected to pay out of pocket or navigate some platform that doesn't actually work with our plan. That's a broken system. Rula fixes it. They're a healthcare company, not a tech gimmick, not a subscription trap, that connects you with over 15 ,000 licensed therapists and psychiatrists nationwide, covered by more than 100 insurance plans. The average copay for sessions is$15, and the care is real. The providers are vetted and appointments are available as soon as tomorrow. Visit Rula.com slash taste to get started. That's R-U-L-A dot com slash taste.

24:03Matt:You deserve mental health care that works for you, not against your budget. Please support our show and let them know we sent you. Great segue to talk about Son because, you know, this restaurant is kind of a culmination of a lot of work you've done with your bakery. for a long time, for many years. You've been quietly, to be honest, very humbly making some of the most exquisite pastries through the Korean lens, but also traditional European style pastries. And less than a year ago, you opened with your business partners, Son. Tell us about it. I mean, it's all over the online. I mean, the lines are still there, my man, right?

24:49Matt:I mean, people are lining up. They are.

24:51Anthony Randello-Jahn:I mean, we're really blessed to be a busy business in any industry, definitely the food industry. It's called 손, which means hands in Korean. Our tag is many hands made for all. And it really just embodying that. So every element, it's not just about the food. It's not just about the beverage. We don't even call ourselves a cafe per se, which obviously we are. And that is a strong part of our program. but it really is the gathering space. At night, we host workshops. We do events, a lot of collaborative elements. It's with our partner, Janet Lee, who is just an absolute powerhouse in hospitality.

25:37Anthony Randello-Jahn:She has fine dining experience, but ultimately she just has a taste for, she's a consumer of it. I don't really get out much, but she's out and checks out the spots. She's in the cafes. very, very just great eye. And also she has an incredible heart for hospitality and warmth. So Janet Leigh is just, she's the real, we call it, she's the reason why Tone exists. For me, I just cook and I make sure that the bills are paid on time and the rent is paid. But Tone really is a beautiful space. And I think the Bay Area and why we're being embraced, if I may, kind of ponder six months in, five months in since our opening.

26:22Anthony Randello-Jahn:And like you said, Maddie, still very, very busy, which we're really grateful for. I think the Bay Area was really hungry for something like this. A Korean cafe, however way you want to call it, a workspace. We have a lot of the people that come for the food, that come for the drinks, but also come just because I can work out of here and I'm not going to bother you. You can stay here for 30 minutes. You can stay here for three hours. we don't this is your space and and we really opened it up uh which i think a lot of korean cafes in korea embrace yeah we wanted to carry that so that's been our kind of project this past year obviously we're working on some fun things within that space but it really is an incredible space um which i didn't know the value of as a chef um the chef for me i'm like make the best food possible people come for food and it doesn't matter if you eat it in a dingy spot you know and that was i believe that and i i said that i remember saying that in interviews but you know even me growing out of that and learning i'm like okay yes but now especially after covid everyone's really up their game where the people that have all elements have to hit the service has to be warm the food and beverage yes has to be incredible um but the space who our interior designer kathy hong uh who's who's actually never designed this is her first commercial project wow so she's only done residential so she really uniquely so brought this home feel warmth to the space that it's it's an 8 000 square foot space it's a massive space maddie and yeah hard to make a space like that feel warm in any kind but she's just did an incredible job and i think I'm going to say where I think a lot of people just like come for the space and they're like, okay, the food and beverages isn't bad.

28:18Anthony Randello-Jahn:Oh, and I can work there for three hours.

28:19Matt:Oh, I mean, listen, but I'll just jump in and say like the food has been really popping and my many friends who visited on my behalf have been like, yeah, I, that breakfast sandwich, I got to hit, I got to get that. I got to get more of that in my life. These, these coffee drinks. I mean, I'll just go to Janet. I mean, getting to know Janet for, for years and just see this culmination of her incredible talent and warmth. You nailed it. She has fostered this community and seeing the workshops, you know, I see you're doing, you know, flower design workshops and you're doing, you know, language workshops and private events.

28:49Matt:And it really is a stunning space. It's a lot of poured concrete and it feels like from the outside, maybe a little cold, but you've warmed it up on the interior with all the great fabrics and textiles and just such a great eye for space. And tell me about the food though. You got to, for the sake of the podcast, for our conversation, what's on the menu? Cause I know there's like, you've got like lots of cool coffee drinks and lots of sandwiches and all sorts of cool stuff.

29:15Anthony Randello-Jahn:Yeah. The food is really simple. We have a five or six item menu. It's like a, Hey, don't do too much, but do the things you do very well, hopefully very well. And people are drawn to it. Korean American food, a very approachable um not over complicated over plated uh our breakfast sandwich is quite popular and the and the inspiration is my favorite thing and maddie you and i have many many korean meals together um uh korean steamed eggs so simple but i love the texture of it soft fluffy and i always used to think i'm like oh this could be a there's so many iterations of incredible breakfast sandwiches i was like oh that might be a good breakfast sandwich one day and then i'm like oh maybe this is a good opportunity uh the croissants we make in our in-home in-house because we have a bakery partner a bakery in-house so croissant sesame bun uh with a bacon onion jam um and our ketan jim egg which is like a souffle kind of fluffy egg uh kyle be patty melt i didn't know yeah fact check me i think patty melts i was told this could be completely wrong and i might apparently patty melt started in san francisco could be totally wrong but uh we play it's like an homage to where we are in in the bay area um at minimum it's popular here so i think instead of doing a smash i remember we're like do we do a smash burger because it was like trending and it's popular and i'm sure it's still popular now or do we do something that we feel is a good platform and an homage to the city that we're in, which is San Francisco.

30:57Anthony Randello-Jahn:So that's kind of our homage to the city. That's quite popular. Popcorn chicken. Yeah, that's your classic. I love that. Just an homage to the reason I came out here was Sunday Bird. And I had a small, very, very small, not so great fried chicken when I first came out almost eight years ago now.

31:18Matt:On Gary Street. Yeah, I remember.

31:20Anthony Randello-Jahn:exactly yeah and um uh i think that was a play on kind of taiwanese i was introduced to the whole boba taiwanese like world i was like i didn't know you know in the east coast it's it's a drink in the west coast it's a culture you know it's it's a part of so really in in uh embrace that element and uh what popcorn chicken was so our popcorn chicken is under our kind of play on is we fry up 떡 which is a fried rice cake or which is rice cake that we fry up so a little chicken and rice cake combo and then the other two dishes is kimchi fried rice that we serve in the the old nostalgia our parents generation lunch containers which is a play and a kind of homage to my Baekjeong days because Lunchbox was very popular and I just always loved that dish and what we could do with it and spicy cold noodles it's just a seasonal uh dish it's always warm in california um so for me that menu is a really it's a very personal yeah close to my heart menu um oh and also we have um our cookie our one pastry cookie that we do is eric kim's uh which is a great friend of ours i'm sure many of the listeners and viewers know uh eric kim and it's an homage to him his famous gochujang caramel cookie and we literally name it Eric Kim's Gochardown Caramel.

32:49Anthony Randello-Jahn:I love that. And people love it and it sells out. Like, you come here after a certain time, you're not going to get one. And it's such a menu that I can be silly with and I don't really care what people say about it. It's a menu that I love and hopefully you love it too.

33:07Matt:I love that rundown of it. And by the way, when I was growing up in the Midwest, I would go to Steak and Shake. and I would have the Frisco melt. They called it the Frisco melt and it was basically a patty melt. I think you're right. I mean, I think the patty melt is a SF thing.

33:27Anthony Randello-Jahn:One chat GPC search away.

33:31Matt:No, it's funny. Tell me about the drinks. I mean, I see a lot of drinks in my feed and of course just people love the Korean style coffee tea service and you're doing some great things.

33:45Anthony Randello-Jahn:Yes, Jan really curated this and really thought this one out. I'm not a drinker of coffee. I'm not a drinker of matcha. I don't know, but she is. We partnered with an incredible partner, Frank Law, who is a legend, which I didn't know. I feel horrible. He's the Korean, first Korean, or I'm just going to say first Korean because it sounds good. but the u.s barista world boost u.s barista champion yes i don't know which year but um he was the reigning when we met um so i just address him as u.s barista champion is delicious um and he he is uh coffee partners with so many incredible partners in la he's based in LA.

34:37Anthony Randello-Jahn:And he's really brought on his coffee program and introduced his coffee program to the Bay Area, which is incredible. And I think Sone is a perfect platform for him to do so. We have incredible matcha partners. And I think our tea partner is Kiho, K-I-O-H, Korean teas, pumpkin so all these were really thought of through the lens of kind of janet who really knows oh i think our most popular one is uh probably the banana milk uh which uh maddie you know me like we're in korea together we're going to the korean convenience stores and first stop is getting our banana milk fuel in every morning we would get banana milk every afternoon we get banana milk pretty much you see a convenience store we're going in yeah um so that was our play we make our own banana milk that is uh reminiscent and nostalgic to the korean banana milk uh that uh they sell in korea and yeah that we mix it with matcha or coffee or hojicha and we just have fun with it we don't we try not to overthink it we're not clarifying stuff We're not centrifuging stuff.

35:54Anthony Randello-Jahn:I don't even know how to do that. Yeah, yeah. No need. It's not because we don't believe in it. It's just we're not capable. We're not that. Just tasty, delicious drinks with tasty, delicious food, hopefully, in an incredibly curated space.

36:08Matt:I love it. I cannot wait to try it. And I love this cafe menu with Frank Law. Just such an exciting place. Go out there. It's in Dogpatch. Son is the name. what's the story about expansion i have to ask you this is my like journalistic duty to ask you uh i know you're only five months in so it's a weird question but i'm sure people are maybe ringing you up for hey we want to sown in our in our property here and

36:34Anthony Randello-Jahn:there yeah no and we have and and you always ask i think this is always one of our even personal conversation.

36:42Matt:I'm like, I'm totally texting you. Wait, what are you going to happen in Brooklyn?

36:47Anthony Randello-Jahn:I think we're good right now. I think getting older now, and Matty, you and I have known each other for almost 15 years now. I think always before, I was like, okay, great. Next thing. Next thing. Two more. Three more. Son specifically, I believe the draw really is the space. And the space is hard to rep. If we were known as like a matcha or like we're known for our burgers, great let's open up 10 of these let's do one in la but not saying there won't be another son another iteration of it but the space would really have to speak to us which we did for this project we're like oh this you know it's by level and please if anyone listening is in the bay area please swing by um you don't have to get anything it's fine it's not a business thing it's just more of a just check out the space there's so much art a hundred percent of the proceeds go to the artist Like it's one of those spaces that I don't know how scalable it is.

37:43Anthony Randello-Jahn:And I think usually that would be a negative thing. But I think that's, I'm learning how awesome that is and how we embrace the fact that it's unique and it's maybe not scalable, but it's beautiful because it's not. And I think for now, unless we find another space that really speaks to us, I'm like, okay, we can do another gathering space and platform a lot of talent there as well. I don't think we're in a rush to do so. But if we find another space, we are definitely open to it. So I'm in a very rare season, I feel like, for a lot of business owners or chefs that are like, you know what, I'm good.

38:25Anthony Randello-Jahn:I want to make what I have currently healthier and go deeper more than going wider, if that makes sense.

38:34Matt:It's an amazing sentiment. And I see it just in the passion for this one project when you're building it. And it's very, very, very modern to think this way and to run it as a single P &L and not think about like a P &L times five kind of business. And I really appreciate that. I think like not rushing into a new opening is like such a lesson, right? And I'm sure when the time comes, you'll do it. But just enjoy yourself and keep those customers happy. Duki on This Is Taste, we asked guests about their discerning taste. So to close this interview, here's a little rapid fire, fast and furious taste check.

39:15Matt:Are you ready? Born ready. Born ready. The best fruit?

39:20Anthony Randello-Jahn:Peach. Easy. The worst vegetable? uh every vegetable i'm sorry i don't know broccoli i don't know

39:31Matt:chef chef you're saying every vegetable chef actually i love corn i love corn sorry corn yeah that is the first time we've heard every vegetable is the answer from a professional i don't know i don't know food i love it so much man i know i i respect it What is your typical breakfast?

39:51Anthony Randello-Jahn:Oh, if I eat breakfast? I mean, you just saw right now I have a protein shake and I go on about my day. Yeah. I don't even know the last time I had like breakfast, like eggs, copper, pancakes, whatnot. Yeah, yeah. I don't remember that.

40:06Matt:No, you got to get to work. I'm an on-the-go guy. Yeah, yeah. Okay. I love this question for you. What's the best dessert?

40:16Anthony Randello-Jahn:Oh, ironically, I know I run a bakery. I don't like dessert. Dessert, dessert. Does banana milk count? I think that counts. Yeah, something sweet, yeah, banana milk.

40:28Matt:You've never been a dessert guy. I've known you for 15 years. It's never been your thing. I mean, only when researching. I remember we were in a book event in DC. Do you remember when we went to that bakery and we ordered everything?

40:40Anthony Randello-Jahn:Oh, yeah. I get into a different mode when it's like for research. yeah i'll i'll i'll taste the coffee i'll like all these things that i don't do but um yeah me personally if it was just if i never met anybody else no social element i don't think i think

40:56Matt:without eating dessert like i'm not an ice cream person yeah um yeah kind of boring i mean like literally when i say you ordered everything on the menu it was like 14 pastries and two desserts and a couple snacks that was in i think i also did that because to look really cool it was a fun it was a fun afternoon i remember that um a few more okay the best thing you've ever baked oh my brother oh baked i think the assumption that i bake is yeah you bake you run production sometimes oh bake i think i learned oh i there is something so i've i've not because

41:37Anthony Randello-Jahn:this whole COVID everyone was into sourdough it's because our bakery has a whole sourdough program we made a black garlic miso sourdough and then I made it as a test and it was good enough and now it's on the menu so yeah I would say that's a good one

41:53Matt:that's the last time I baked which was four years ago so that's great I like this, a restaurant you wish you could bring back from the dead

42:01Anthony Randello-Jahn:oh that's such a good question where do we begin where do we begin from the dead. Any old New York spots? All New York spots. Montaché. Because to be honest, that was my junior important legend in the game. I think he was also on the podcast too. We had a great Drew.

42:24Matt:We went over an hour. It was a legendary conversation. Absolutely.

42:27Anthony Randello-Jahn:He's a legend in the game, so that's appropriate. Montaché was just even hearing that name on the chef. So yeah, I would say Montrose, which is a half more than half the people listening will not know.

42:40Matt:We have some we have some Tribeca heads listening. When you're craving fast food, where are you going? Oh, oh, that this is my realm.

42:49Anthony Randello-Jahn:Thank you, man. This is my realm. Here we go. Fast food. Popeyes. Meal deal. Ten piece. Two large size. Six biscuits. $27.99, which they raised recently from$24.99, which I'm not happy about. but it's okay.

43:07Matt:The perfect order. I feel we ordered family meal for a few pop-ups that we did. Popeyes was always on the in the rotation. Couple more. Your favorite city outside America to visit for food.

43:23Anthony Randello-Jahn:Outside of America. Okay, let's say outside of Seoul, Korea because it's like I gotta go with, I know it's like a very basic answer, but Tokyo. I need to go back.

43:34Matt:please yeah yeah you do you deserve it you gotta go back for research too absolutely last one your

43:41Anthony Randello-Jahn:favorite sandwich bagel uh jersey bagel from bergen boulevard in new jersey uh bacon egg and oh no no sorry sausage egg and cheese salt pepper ketchup yeah on a cinnamon raisin bagel thank you

43:53Matt:buddy yep sorry you did the taste check and buddy i'm so just honored to to to be on this journey with you and continue to talk about Korean food and be your friend. And I just, I love it. Love you, brother.

44:11Anthony Randello-Jahn:It's an honor, brother.

44:12Matt:Love you so much.

44:17Matt:This episode is brought to you by Masterclass. You know how on the show, we're always talking to people who've spent decades obsessing over one thing, whether it's modern Korean food, new expressions of the Jewish deli, or the perfect Vampiro taco in South LA. That depth of knowledge is the thing I find endlessly fascinating. And honestly, it's a big part of why I'm into masterclass. There are classes taught by some of the best chefs, writers, and thinkers in the world. People who've put in the work. And the lessons are short enough that I can actually fit them in. Thought leaders like Michael Lewis, Amy Poehler, and chefs Gordon Ramsay and Roy Choi all teach their own masterclasses.

44:56Matt:I've been using audio mode on my commute, and it genuinely feels like time well spent. With plans starting at$10 a month, billed annually, you get unlimited access to over 200 classes. And every new membership comes with a 30-day money-back guarantee, so there's really no reason not to try it. Right now, our listeners get an additional 15 % off any annual membership. Go to masterclass.com slash tastecooking. That's masterclass.com slash tastecooking. This episode is brought to you by Nespresso. introducing Virtuo Up the latest in a long line of innovation from Nespresso it's innovation you can touch sense and taste in every single cup with a 3 second start easy open lever and dedicated brew over ice button it's even easier to enjoy your coffee your way sip for yourself shop Virtuo Up exclusively at Nespresso.com I'm R.J.

45:52Matt:Decker a private investigator

45:54Anthony Randello-Jahn:uncovering the sunshine state's darkest secrets Tuesdays, it's the premiere of ABC's hottest new crime show.

46:02Deuki Hong:R.J. freaking Decker as I live and breathe. He's a private eye. It's not standard murder. It's someone bigger. And a public mess.

46:09Matt:Trying to get sent back to prison today?

46:11Deuki Hong:You go to prison one time and suddenly it's all the jokes. R.J. Decker, series premiere, Tuesdays on ABC and stream on Hulu.

46:22Matt:Anthony Rondello-Yan, welcome to This Is Taste. So nice to meet you. Nice to meet you, too. I mean, listen, when Donut Daddy came up in my feed for the first time after I found out we were doing your book, I was like, okay, this is interesting. And then I started watching it. And I'm like, this guy is really rad. I mean, you are, first off, it's like an incredible visual identity and stunt. Like your filmmaking is very smart. But also you learn about cooking and food. I love it. Yeah.

46:50Deuki Hong:Yeah, no, it's an interesting mix, isn't it? Because like, I didn't, I kind of started not thinking, I wasn't really thinking too much about what I was doing. I was just using like the skills I had, which was kind of pastry making. Yeah. Well, donuts in specifically. And then I just got a camera and I was like, let me just try and make a video that's, you know, a little bit different. And yeah, it just kind of came out with kind of what you see now. Like it's a lot more refined now than my first stuff. But yeah, it's just like a mix of the pastries with the cinematography. And yeah, it's just a spicy combo.

47:28Matt:Yeah. I mean, and for those who are only listening to the audio, have never actually gone to the site, you're not wearing your shirt in all the videos? Do you ever wear a shirt? No.

47:37Deuki Hong:Yeah. Well, actually, that's the thing. So I'm always wondering, should I wear a shirt or not? You know? So sometimes like in the videos, there'll be times where I'm wearing a shirt and times where I'm not. and it kind of depends on the style or theme of each video that I'm kind of going for. But my most viral one actually is just I don't take the shirt off, which is the funny thing. Right. Yeah, but it's, but yeah, most of them there's a little bit of.

48:04Matt:There's a little bit of like your physique in place, but they're there for the donuts. Let's get real. They're there for the donuts. Well, yeah. Or whatever, you're baking, you bake many things. It's not just donuts, but. Yeah, yeah.

48:15Deuki Hong:Yeah, I'm not sure actually. Like it's, it's yeah, the, the, the audience, it's always different. I never know if they're there for what they're really there for, you know? Yeah. Never really know.

48:26Matt:You never really know until, until you put out a book and you do an event and they all show up. Yeah. Have you, have you done that yet? Or we're recording this at the beginning of your book tour.

48:34Deuki Hong:Yeah, exactly. Uh, so I've done a few events where I've gone to them. So I've been to the Philippines and I did like a bit of a panel and yeah, I had tons of Filipino fans. Like I realized there was just tons of them. I think they're from mainly Facebook, but yeah, they're, um, they were awesome. And there was just, just getting tons of photos while I was there. Yeah. Uh, and then other than that, like I've, you know, people stopped me in the street in that, um, I had a lot of, seemed like a lot of fans in Miami when I was there. Um, but there was also, there's a lot of creators in LA as well.

49:10Deuki Hong:Um, but I haven't done like a specific kind of like pop up or, meet and greet before. I've just never done it. Well, you're having one tonight in New York? Tomorrow? Tomorrow, yeah. Tomorrow, yeah.

49:23Matt:I think it's tomorrow. Yeah, yeah. We'll record. I mean, we are in the past. Everyone's listening to this in the future, so it's all good. Speaking of New York, this is your first trip. You've traveled to the States before. Where have you been going? Like restaurants or pastry for bakeries? What have you been up to?

49:40Deuki Hong:Yeah, so we got here on the 30th, and it's the second now, I think. Yeah, it's the second. And yeah, we basically got here. As soon as we got here, we tried to get some photos because I wanted to post that I'm in New York. But I stuffed up because I didn't have a jacket. But you arrived in New York and we're having a cold snap. I just had a T-shirt and jeans and I was like, all right, let's go into Times Square at 8 p.m. and just get a photo. And I kind of like, I was freezing. We were kind of freezing to death. And so I was like, let's recalibrate. And we went back and we ate some Five Guys. Nice.

50:21Deuki Hong:Then we recalibrated. And then the next day, we're like, okay, we've got to get a fur coat. But also, I did do the video with Doe Donuts. There's a donut store. Yeah, great place. Yeah, so the owner, Steve, he gave us some coffee donuts. We did a video. and then he took us he's got a pizza restaurant as well called Cello's Pizza in East Village he's got these thin crust really good but we don't have that kind of pizza in Melbourne, thin crust we don't have, all our pizza is like thick and soggy really? in Australia? I mean look, there's a few exceptions

51:03Matt:right, but your pizza game is not as strong as New York nah, it's like it's on another level here you know man so so you were you were enchanted by this pizza it was good yeah it was really good

51:13Deuki Hong:because yeah we have like the this italian style pizza that's um it's common it's it's like oven it's wood fired and yeah it's like there's a heaps of bread and there's like a little bit of sauce in that and a little bit of cheese in the middle but here everyone's got this uh you know like the New York style pizza, which is like really thin, crispy.

51:37Matt:Yeah.

51:38Deuki Hong:It kind of holds itself up.

51:39Matt:Yeah.

51:40Deuki Hong:And we don't have that. Well, not that I've found, but. Yeah.

51:44Matt:So it's really good. I'm happy you've been introduced to our favorite, one of our greatest prides in New York is our pizza. Talk about landing on this visual identity because, you know, check out the link in the show notes to the Instagram account and social accounts. Like really cool stuff. I mean, how long does it take to make one of these videos? Yeah, video.

52:06Deuki Hong:So it can vary. Like usually with editing and filming would usually take maybe like three days. Yeah. Sometimes it can take a bit longer. Like if it's a bit more of a complicated video, if I'm working with a brand and I'm going to incorporate a product somehow. That may take a little bit longer. Sometimes it take up to a week, you know. And obviously in that week, I'm still making time for a few other things. I'm not just like all slapping dough and all that. There is some slapping of doughs involved. But usually it would take, if I do it, if everything's aligned and I've got the plan ready, should take around like two to three days with editing.

52:48Matt:That's crazy. I mean, it's amazing. I mean, we get a lot of folks coming to the studio who shoot half a day, maybe a day. But these are multi-day productions and like lots of cameras. I mean, did you always have that vision when you launched it? No.

53:04Deuki Hong:Like I, when I started, because I was doing a lot, because I have a donut store, I have a donut shop in Melbourne, Australia. And when I started, I basically was just kind of posting funny donut clips. So like Valentine's Day, I'll take my shirt off and hold like a six pack of donuts and do like a donut giveaway. Yeah. and what I noticed like and and I'll get a lot of people commenting like to get the free donuts and I'll deliver them and this was like when I was starting yeah and it was like it was kind of popular at the start when I started Instagram this was like 10 years ago but that's kind of I guess where it started and then yeah and then I kind of came back to I guess that idea which was like

53:47Matt:um you know kind of making it a bit cheeky yeah cheeky but you raised the production values as

53:53Deuki Hong:you started to get more of a following yeah well and then and so i got the camera and then i was like you know what i wanted to do like a youtube video so i did this youtube video making like a glazed donut and it's kind of like a funny video it was more like a entertaining you know classic youtube entertaining style like where i interview some people on the street yeah and i make this donut and that was kind of the first style i started with but then as soon as i tried a different style which was like kind of what you see today it instantly went viral and it was kind of maybe like 60 percent of people liked it and then there's like 40 percent was like what the hell are you doing i like it and that's where i decided you know i'm just gonna keep doing this if it's gonna go viral and most of the people like it yeah let me just keep it's really really

54:43Matt:fun with it it's really fun i i i love it and let's go back to your history you you had had you had a donut shop before you even started posting what's your background with pastry i mean donuts are really hard i i recognize that we've had like wiley dufrainen talking about his donut shop it's like one of the hardest things to do in all of cooking is to make donuts what what drove

55:04Deuki Hong:you to that i think with the donuts it was so when i started so i i have like i had a business partner at the beginning and um and so we worked together to to create like this um so i have a food truck as well so i have two businesses in melbourne and this food truck started as a food cart and the idea was we wanted to just get into the biggest food market in melbourne when we started which was it's called queen victoria night market and so we came up with this this uh little danish donuts that and we just have like different and it was kind of in melbourne we didn't have um we didn't kind of have like boutique desserts at that time.

55:47Deuki Hong:Like there wasn't, there was kind of just like cheap fast desserts. Yeah. And then there was like this gap for like, I don't know the word to call it, but it's kind of like more fancy desserts. A little bit more fancy, you know? Like a little elevated like plated desserts a little more than just like cookies and scum.

56:04Matt:Yeah.

56:05Deuki Hong:So there's kind of like this gap in the market for things that would incorporate different, a little bit more bougie kind of sauces and toppings and charge a little bit more so that's kind of what we did with our jammed um dessert bar thing that concept we came up with and because at the markets there was like you know there was there was cheap donuts and like little pancakes and stuff like that but then we came up with these danish donut things with um a whole bunch of different toppings and that was kind of where it started but And now we're just doing events like every weekend with our cart.

56:39Deuki Hong:We like built it and everything. And what happened was over time, we got a review from a guy and he's like, he's like, these aren't real donuts. What? He's like, these are just Danish little pancake balls. Oh. And that's when I was like, nah, it's time we make real ones, you know. We're not going to mess around anymore. we're making a real deal yeah so my um so my business partner his name's anthony um as well and so we decided okay let's let's get all this donut equipment and we and we got into my mom's garage at the time it was like 10 years ago love it and so cool and so he he like basically quit his job and started making all the donuts yeah um and developing all these recipes and and over time we're just like perfecting it um and we started posting on instagram all these donuts that we were making and at the time there was like there was still it was like there was one boutique donut shop and everything else was like cheap donuts in melbourne you know so there's still a gap there so when we started that donut uh concept take posting online a lot of cafes restaurants um catering companies reached out and were like we want your donuts oh cool deliver them to us and so that's when we decided okay let's let's focus on the wholesale side of this yeah so we we rented this really small like dodgy tiny little kitchen out of this factory really cheap um we just had to do it we just want to do it quick because yeah he quit his job and and i was i was still working at the time but on the weekends i was doing all this and and after work and stuff so we spent a lot of time um in that kitchen like sleeping in there trying to get the donuts out to these cafes and stuff and yeah and that's kind of where it all started and then i got like one big wholesale client um and he helped me like because he was ordering a lot i could save off a bit of money and and get into a bigger kitchen um it's really

58:44Matt:cool i mean what were you doing during the day what was your day job before you went pro donut

58:47Deuki Hong:pro yeah so i was a um manager at grilled yeah yeah so you probably don't know what grilled is

58:53Matt:I was like, I'm like thinking, is this a, like, is it like a chain of restaurants?

58:58Deuki Hong:Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's a, it's a chain. It's a burger restaurant. Okay, cool. Cool. So it's a burger. It's a chain, but it's like, um, uh, what's the word? Fast casual. Yeah. It's like fast casual, um, burger chain and they cook everything fresh and all this kind of stuff. But what I learned from grilled was, um, yeah, they just kind of, it was just like a normal burger shop, but they just did it a little bit different. they made it they called it healthy burgers and and so the the way they kind of ran things they had a really clean operation really nice operation so i kind of learned some of my hospitality skills from working there how to manage staff and all this stuff yeah um so yeah i was working there uh and that kind of yeah and then and then i was doing this then you went so you and your

59:44Matt:business partner got that wholesale client yeah then you opened brick and mortar right you open up your your own is it called donut daddy no it's called levain donuts it's called levain donuts but

59:55Deuki Hong:yeah donut daddy is just you all right don't that is me and and i was promoting that like kind of

1:00:00Matt:on my personal page yeah yeah and then it kind of good made the full circle so then did you see

1:00:06Deuki Hong:people were just starting to come to the donut shop because of social media was that like no so what happened was this wholesale client like in in the area so i'm we're in the suburbs like 30 minutes from the city yeah and in the area there's no other donut shop like no nice donut shop and we make like really good donuts so people will come into the shop and we were just a wholesaler but they'll come to the shop saying where can we buy and so we just started selling to the public from the shop even though we didn't want to they just kept they kept walking into the kitchen being like well how do we order in here that's crazy and um at the time um so my business partner he left to go to canada yeah and he was working at another donut shop like a like a famous donut shop over there.

1:00:47Deuki Hong:And he was kind of giving me like advice, tips and tricks from this donut shop. Like, oh, you know, this is what's selling, this is what's doing. And so from that, I kind of learned like, you know, kind of, you know, upgrading my equipment and this and that. But no, what happened was though, they kept during, I think it was like during the lockdowns, this is kind of when the start of lockdown is when we had this wholesale client, I was still doing the catering events with the truck and all this stuff. But as soon as the lockdown started, people really started to order on Uber Eats. They started to really ramp up their quadrupled our sales in that year of the lockdown because everyone just wanted donuts.

1:01:30Deuki Hong:Yeah, yeah. They wanted a little bit of comfort

1:01:31Matt:when they're locked at their home.

1:01:33Deuki Hong:Yeah. And so from that, that's when I had enough money to get the brick and mortar.

1:01:37Matt:Cool. Yeah. Anthony, that's a cool story. So you open up the brick and mortar shop. Yeah. When did the Donut Daddy stand start showing up though? Yeah. Okay. That must be it. That's a moment, right?

1:01:49Deuki Hong:Yeah. Yeah. So after that shop opened, then it was probably, I was running that shop, just focusing all my time just on that. I wasn't even doing social media. Like I was just focused on wholesale, you know, and it was probably about maybe two or three years from that shop being opened is when I had a bit more time to, I kind of had a bit more systems and a bit more time and that sounds like you know let me get a camera let me do focus on the marketing and and filming and all this kind of stuff and that's when the donut daddy kind of came came to life and that's when i started really um doing that because the first video that i did was to promote the donut shop yeah exactly it just took its own thing on you know yeah which i wasn't expecting yeah do people think it's like only fans bait sometimes Yeah, I think so.

1:02:37Deuki Hong:People are like, you know, is this only pans? You know, they say they think it's – they're not quite sure what my page is about, I think, at first. They have to kind of be like, you know, what's going on here?

1:02:49Matt:Yeah, yeah. So they're like, okay, maybe there's an OF version of this, but we know we're getting donuts. Have you launched an OF?

1:02:58Deuki Hong:Have you thought? Nah, I get a lot of requests like fans wanting me to open the OnlyFans. But nah, just like at this time. It's not. Yeah, nah. But there's a lot of like, I also get a lot of adult toy companies wanting to do collaborations. But I still haven't done anything like that yet.

1:03:20Matt:I bet you can figure out a collaboration with one of these companies. Yeah. I bet that there's a way. I think I could make it tasteful. I just think of the shapes involved, that there's probably some way that it could work out.

1:03:31Deuki Hong:Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, vibrating mixer, you know, you could make it work.

1:03:36Matt:You got it. I mean, we're honest. We could like brainstorm for 10 minutes. We'll like spare the podcast for that one. I love it. So how do you end up with the cookbook? So this is a cool story because you're big on social. But I have to say like we don't publish, like there's lots of people on social and we don't publish many relatively. but you published with us, which is great. How did that happen?

1:04:00Deuki Hong:Yeah, so it kind of, I guess, happened. I was posting a lot. I was going, at the beginning, I was just going mega viral because I guess I was one of the first ones doing this kind of style that I'm doing, this, like, sexy cooking. And what happened was there was a few, I just kept getting, like, different emails, you know. Oh, do you want to write a book? Do you want to write a cookbook? Different publishing companies. um and then and i didn't really know because i'm very new to the whole whole thing yeah you know um and so i had a friend in america and i was i was telling her about uh like these different companies approaching me and i said one of them was um you know penguin publisher and she's like oh you gotta keep in contact with them you know and so that's what i was like okay you know let's continue this conversation and yeah i guess it and they kind of um had an idea you know they said that you know let's see if we can turn your your style of cooking you know if you're interested into a cookbook cool um and that's kind of that's kind of where it started but yeah there's a few different a whole bunch of different publishers um approaching me yeah yeah i bet so tell me about

1:05:09Matt:the book like how did you how did you write it what's in it like what's what's the style because then we know you about from these short videos but we don't know the full breadth of your cooking Yes.

1:05:18Deuki Hong:Yeah, exactly. So basically what I learned over like the last 10 years is just like how to make all kinds of pastries, you know? And so, and so I've kind of like perfected the pastry game, not a hundred percent. You can never, you know, there's always room for improvement. Of course. Yeah. There's always room for improvement. But what I learned over the, over the years was, you know, how to, first of all, like donuts, I basically mastered donuts, you know, we just, we understand them from a, from a, from a different level. So to me, they're really easy to make. Um, but so basically in the book, we've got, uh, we've got a few different chapters.

1:05:56Deuki Hong:So we've got the donut chapter, which I thought was important because there's no real, I mean, yes, there's, okay. There's cookbooks with donuts, but I wanted a donut that everyone can make. That's going to be amazing that you can make at home. Um, and I'm just giving out my secrets that I use for my shop, everything. So the donut recipes are my secrets that I've learned over the last 10 years, which is a big portion of the book. I think there's maybe about 20 recipes with donuts, lots of different ones. And once you have the base to make the dough, you can just go bonkers, make your own. You can make whatever you want with that.

1:06:32Deuki Hong:I love that. Smart. And then so we also have like a date night chapter, which is more like simple date night desserts you can probably whip up in the evening. you got a date coming over or a friend or whatever so we've got that uh it's more of like a simple chapter um and then we also have like the complicated uh more you see it more on my donut daddy page now because i've i like to challenge myself now with the recipes and i'm making a lot more complicated fancy looking you know like i might get a brand deal and they want me to well they don't even want me to but like they'll give me a like a like i did one for Paco Rabanne for their million gold elixir perfume.

1:07:15Deuki Hong:Yeah. And I made the bottle, you know, I got the silicon. Oh, cool. You know what I mean? You recreated the bottle. I recreated the bottle. Yeah. And so, but the complicated chapter has kind of got elements of those things in there. Yeah. The mousses, the mirror glazes to make these really fancy looking desserts. And this is more, there's a few recipes in there. It's more for the complicated. it's a bit more if you want to challenge yourself and you know spend a spend a couple of days on a nice piece a centerpiece that's cool i mean they're paying you for so why don't you just go all the way yes yeah do you consider what you're doing art i think i mean i don't think of it initially you know i i don't think of it initially but then when i when i watch something that i've done a year ago, I say, I think it's art.

1:08:05Deuki Hong:You know, I think when you're in something so much, you kind of, you don't necessarily think you're making art. You're just trying to like go through the motions like, okay, let's film this. Let's make this. This is going to look good. But it's only when you can like, it's done, it's out there, it's performed well or whatever that I look back and I'm like, oh, that's art. You know, it's like once you kind of get out of your head and you look at it from afar, that's when I find that I think like that.

1:08:36Matt:Yeah. I love it. Yeah. Anthony, this has been fun. On This Is Taste, we asked guests about the discerning taste. So to close this interview, here's a little rapid fire, fast and furious taste check. Are you ready? Yeah. The best fruit.

1:08:47Deuki Hong:Well, that's a tough one, brother. You mean like just to eat in general?

1:08:52Matt:Yeah, yeah, totally. Oh, I mean, we could go in other directions. But yeah,

1:08:56Deuki Hong:to consume, we'll be clear. Okay, okay. Just to eat? Yeah. I mean, I think cherries. Yeah. I mean, taste wise, they're good, but visually recipes, they always perform well. I noticed a lot of people like the look taste wise. It can divide people, but look and aesthetic. They got, they got something special about them. Well said. I like that point. The worst vegetable. Oh, oh, taste wise. Yeah. Definitely the bitter melon. Yeah. Have you heard that? Yes, I have. Yeah. It's just, it's tough. I know it's really healthy. Yeah. Like if I could stomach it, I know it's really healthy. What is your typical breakfast?

1:09:41Deuki Hong:Yeah. So my typical breakfast is actually before the gym. Usually I'll have like a coffee or like a cocoa. Yeah. And then I'll have like, I try to get some kind of carbohydrate in the morning just before the gym. so I'll have like some fruit or some dates a little bit of like chocolate or something like that then I'll go to the gym but usually my first meal is like I'll have a like a lean lean breakfast like chicken and vegetables or eggs and yeah something like that you go to the gym

1:10:13Matt:no way yeah yeah I tried to it's hard when you're traveling I mean this is crazy because like I know you're obviously very much into fitness and when you're traveling in New York do you have your are Are you going to the gym here in New York?

1:10:26Deuki Hong:Yeah, yeah. The hotel we're in has a gym. No one's using it because I think it's like so cold that everyone's just like stuff the gym. Yeah. But no, it was actually a decent gym. Yeah, and the thing is I was just in Bali recently for like almost two weeks, and I just didn't go to the gym for like two weeks. Wow. And then now I'm in New York. I'm like, if I miss another two weeks, I'm probably going to start to wither away. It'll, yeah, change the dynamic of your show. The best dessert. Yeah, oh, this is really hard. This is a tough one. This is really hard. Yeah, yeah, I know. It's hard for you.

1:11:04Deuki Hong:You got a lot. But no, I'll give you two. Sure, fair enough. I'll give you two. I actually really like a banana cream pie. Yeah. Or like, you know, like a banoffee cream pie. Yeah. You know what I mean? Oh, of course. Banana, cream, caramel. Yeah. crunchy base something like that i really like but i also really like a um like a chocolate fondant cake with it with a a liquid center that with you know you have some creme on glaze yeah um i think that's just amazing or like a chocolate souffle you know equivalent i love the classics these are great yeah yeah classics yeah yeah when you're craving fast food where are you going Oh, yeah.

1:11:47Deuki Hong:That's five guys. Yeah. Well, when I'm here, five guys. Yeah, yeah. What about in Australia, though? In Australia, if I'm crazy eating fast food, man, oh, usually I'll go for like a pizza. Like for some reason, it'll be like once every few months, I start seeing all these pizza videos. But it's soggy, though. That's the problem. That's the problem. It's soggy. It never hits the spot, man. No, it's not good. I went to a pizza place, and I spent like 50 bucks on this pizza. I was trying to make the ultimate pizza. It was just like this soggy, like I was, I regretted it.

1:12:19Matt:Too many veg, man. I think your gym brain is like, I need to get healthy vegetables. But anyone who knows it, you can't have vegetables on pizzas because it'll get soggy. No, I stuff my pizza up, yeah.

1:12:31Deuki Hong:Your favorite city to visit in the world for food? Okay. To be honest, so far, I think I haven't traveled too much. Yeah. Well, you know, I've been - I mean, you have.

1:12:44Matt:I mean, I'm sure you've been to Bali.

1:12:47Deuki Hong:Yeah, no, yeah. I've been to a few places. Nothing too crazy. I haven't been to, like, Europe yet. Okay. So I don't know how good the food is. I can't speak for that part. But my opinion is New York City's food is ridiculously good so far. Taste-wise, there's something about it, man. It's just got this thing. I'm happy to hear that. Yeah. Last one, your favorite sandwich. a favorite sandwich oh um yeah probably like a in melbourne we've got a bunch of sandwich shops have been opening up like deli sandwich shops it started become popular we're a bit behind on the trends it's good um just starting now literally than never to get the delis going man um yeah so like pastrami yeah mustard pickle cheese yeah that kind of thing crisp, like toasted, that really hits the spot.

1:13:40Deuki Hong:I love that. Yeah.

1:13:42Matt:Anthony, this has been so much fun. Thank you so much for joining This is Taste.

1:13:45Deuki Hong:That's all good. Thank you.

1:13:46Matt:Thank you for having me.

1:13:51Matt:This is Taste is hosted and produced by Eliza Abarbanal and me, Matt Rodbar. The show is edited by lead producer Clayton Gumbert and supervised by Pat Stango, Director of Media Production and Development at Penguin Random House. Thanks to Shalia Harris and the production team at Penguin Random House. Theme music by Steve Rydell. Episode portraits by Louise Zergon Pomeroy. Logo design by Ellie Skirzat and Ian Dingham. Visit Taste Online at tastecooking.com and make sure to subscribe to our newsletter to keep updated on all cool things in the world of taste. Jackson Hewitt knows taxes are complicated and with multiple jobs and tax forms, they're like, sonata complicated.

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