741: Rosio Sanchéz Just Wanted Tacos. Turns Out, So Did Copenhagen.

12:24Rosio Sánchez:especially in the early 2000s no no no yeah and i think that's uh you know for me it was like oh this feels like i should work here like i need to work here you know i need to work here i love it and also at the time i was not i was like i was aware it was sam mason was still there by the way love that he was about to leave okay Chris uh Christina Tosi was still there yeah so she was also about to leave um and so I went there I had the menu and I I applied I was like I want to work here and I remember Sam saying well I'm leaving but Alex is coming and he's gonna be amazing you know it was such a I was like I just need to work here yeah and that's you know and that's also wily right like because the whole restaurant was really pushing creativity yeah really pushing that you know we are a creative restaurant that the whole energy that you felt from the bar as well with tona at the bar oh yeah yeah so it's it was uh you could feel that and i remember leaving that uh tasting thinking like i just need to work here somehow amazing um and then i i um went back to Chicago.

13:39Rosio Sánchez:I was working at a random place. And then I gave in my two-week notice. And I said, I'm going to get a job at WD-50.

13:50Dh:That's incredible. You just were trying to visualize it and say it out loud.

13:53Rosio Sánchez:Yeah, I'm like, I'm going to work there. And they didn't have a position open. And so I took a job at a different restaurant. Which one? I won't say.

14:03Dh:Okay, okay.

14:04Rosio Sánchez:I took a job at a different restaurant, but then I was like, look, like there was again, no plan. I was like, I'm going to work there. I don't know how, but it's going to happen. I quote unquote moved to New York. I didn't move to New York. I moved to with my friend in Connecticut and I was commuting from Connecticut to get to work. And then I was, uh, and it was like a normal 40 hour job, like at the restaurant. And so I was also, okay, how am I, I need to just work there. I was going on my days off to stage there at WD50. I love that.

14:40Dh:I love that story. I just need to be there. It happens. You hear this. You're just like free. You just want to go and learn.

14:45Rosio Sánchez:I just need to be there. I need to be in that environment. And the other restaurant was just, you know, I remember the cooks that were working at this other restaurant. They were just there to be there. And I'm like, and I would ask, where do you like to go eat? Or I would want to talk about food. And there was no response. I'm like, I need to get out of this environment. I need to work with people that love food, are creative and driven. And at some point, this is a long story, but at some point I said, I can't keep doing this. I just feel like I don't have enough time and I hope you hire me.

15:23Rosio Sánchez:Otherwise, I need to find a job that I really like because I can't go to this other job that I'm not inspired by and then just be here two days or a day. and then Alex is like, let me talk to Wiley. And then he gave me a voice message like the next day or something. He's like, okay, you're hired.

15:39Dh:Oh my gosh.

15:40Rosio Sánchez:Yes. And I was so happy. It was one of those moments in my life where I'm like, I got what I wanted. Yeah. And I really wanted it so bad.

15:53Dh:You went after it. It's a great lesson.

15:55Rosio Sánchez:Yeah. And I always say that to anyone. I mean, it's just really pushing for it. And I remember at the time I was 21. Yeah. And I didn't know anything about hydrocolloids or anything like that. And I'm just like, I don't know anything, but I'm going to push really hard.

16:14Dh:Yeah.

16:15Rosio Sánchez:I remember telling Alex, like, I'll do anything.

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18:56Dh:Take us into the kitchen at WD50 with Alex at the helm. What's it like? I mean, Alex is a man of great intensity, a man of great generosity as well. And death metal. And lots of cool tattoos in death metal and aesthetics and great tacos too. Makes great tacos, P.S. And I mean, I think his flagship at Midtown is one of my favorite restaurants in New York, always. But what's it like working under him and then starting to get your chops in this kitchen that's very technical and you're so young? Yeah, I was, Alex was a great teacher.

19:36Rosio Sánchez:I don't know if you've seen his videos recently on social media.

19:40Dh:I peeked at them. But it's like working with him.

19:45Rosio Sánchez:He was always like with this banter and joking, but really smart and explaining things with, you know, like in a comedic way. No, he was very serious, definitely at that time. He was young himself, just coming from a linea and something to prove, of course, as he was the pastry chef there. At the time as well, oh my God, New York City was the place for desserts. Do you remember? It was like -

20:15Dh:Of course, P. Sheeong is there. Everything. Yeah. P.

20:18Rosio Sánchez:Sheeong, Will Goldfarb, Johnny Zini. Yes. You know, that's when also Tozy started coming up. Tozy's there. Sam Mason had his own restaurant. Yeah. Beautiful restaurant. What a cool place. And Dominic Ancel as well.

20:31Dh:Yeah.

20:31Rosio Sánchez:And it was like, there was this real buzz of competitive energy for like pastry, you know, for pastry in restaurants and who's doing what and all of that. So, yeah, it was great working with him. He was always intense and serious, but I learned a lot. And I think that one of the greatest things that I learned from working at WD50 was just being always pushing, always pushing to make something, always pushing to fail. There was just this level of creativity that was expected from everyone. Yeah.

21:11Dh:And I asked Malcolm this question, too. Malcolm Livingston II, who was a pastry chef of WD as well. And was there a dish that you got on the menu that you remember just being so proud of and so happy with? Yeah, I remember when I first started, you know, full stop, everyone has to like produce something. Yeah.

21:32Rosio Sánchez:Like there's five or six people working in the kitchen and you all are like going to put something on the menu. Yeah.

21:38Dh:It's part of like the unspoken rule there. It's part of the thing.

21:40Rosio Sánchez:It's like you have to contribute. Yeah. And Alex, I remember so vividly, he said, so your first task is you have to make a minierty, petit four, and you have to make something that's completely original that no one's ever done before. And you need to figure out how to mass produce it. I was like, yes, chef.

22:03Dh:It's like, yes, chef.

22:04Rosio Sánchez:Yes, chef. But it was, no, there was quite a few things that came on the menu that I helped work on. And the first one that the Minyardie was, I was really into gin and tonics at the time, being 21. So it was like a gin marshmallow with lime sugar and like in a little funny different shape. I was really happy with that. And that was very tasty. And towards the end, it was also this like tuile, like chocolate tuile that we did. Oh, my God. It was the most crazy tuile that I made that it was with cocoa powder and gel and it was like this. Basically, the tuile was piped on an acetate. And then when you put it into the oven, you would manipulate it to be into this huge shape that like kind of was all over the plate.

22:59Rosio Sánchez:But you could only fit three tuiles on one gastro to store them. That's how big it was.

23:05Dh:Wow, that's massive. So we're talking about maybe like -

23:07Rosio Sánchez:Like a very thin piped tuile.

23:09Dh:Six inches in -

23:12Rosio Sánchez:No, yeah, it was about six. I forget about inches, but like this big. So I thought that was really cool. Very cool.

23:20Dh:I thought that was really cool.

23:21Rosio Sánchez:And I was super proud of, you know, as I said, everyone develops and contributes. And at some point also, they put my name on the menu as a pastry sous chef. That was one of the more proud moments, more than the dishes, more than the things that came on the menu. Because it said something else, right? Like, you don't need to put the pastry sous chef on the menu. No.

23:48Dh:Why? You already have a pastry chef. And especially at that time in particular. Just for context, I think that there was not much credit being given to sous chefs.

23:59Rosio Sánchez:Exactly. And it's such a small restaurant. Yeah. I mean, you're talking about a restaurant that had five, six people with including head chef, including Wiley and the pastry chef. So for me, and they also obviously had the executive chef on there, but I thought that was really admirable. Yeah. For me at 22 or 21 that, oh, wow, like this is amazing. Yeah. I can't believe my name is right there.

24:27Dh:Let's just move it forward. you're at WD50, you're elevated. Noma calls. Noma. What's that like? Talk about that call and the idea of being recruited to move to Copenhagen and run pastry at this world famous restaurant.

24:48Rosio Sánchez:It wasn't all like that.

24:50Dh:Yeah, I'm recontextualizing it. I'm like your biggest hype person. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

24:54Rosio Sánchez:I mean, I think it's all in a matter of luck and chance and hard work and all of that. You know, I met one of their R &D sous chefs at WD50. He was working there or doing a stage there. There's a lot of that happening at the time, right? I left WD50 because I was going to explore Europe. So I didn't really have a job. And then I received a message from this guy that they were looking for someone in pastry if I was interested to come. And that's how it went. And I just screamed in my pillow. Honestly, I screamed in my pillow and I was like, yes, yes, yes. And yeah, so Wiley had this amazing cookbook library that he would just allow all the cooks to check out books like a library and get inspired and all of that.

25:54Rosio Sánchez:And that's where I first saw the first, first, first, first, first Noma book that one of the cooks there was actually showing it to me. He's like, this is a place in Denmark and blah, blah, blah. So, of course, I already knew about NOMA and it was an exciting topic at the time. And, yeah, so when I got this message, I was like, yeah. I was actually in the middle of staging at other places in Europe and I said, I have to go.

26:24Dh:The guy in Copenhagen is called. And that's how it went, though. That's how it went. It's the style of recruitment and just like generally this like kind of like shared group think in a way of these high end Michelin star restaurants. And I think also for me, it was, I was just interested in learning. Yeah, sure.

26:42Rosio Sánchez:And cooking and learning something different. And, you know, there came something with working at WD-50 where we had everything at our disposal. Yeah. You can do anything creatively or with ingredients and all of that. And I also, in that time, the reason I left to Europe, I wanted to sort of narrow down on a cuisine, maybe, you know, either in Spain or in France. So the fact that Noma called, I was, it was like, it's perfect. I really, it was such a great experience. Starting there, I didn't even ask, what's the position? Yeah, yeah. I just said, cool, I can be there in like two weeks.

27:25Dh:That's incredible. Had you thought about living in Denmark at all? Never. Had you thought about this very small country with this one very famous restaurant?

27:33Rosio Sánchez:No, no, no. But you know, when I say these things out loud, I sound like a maniac. But like when I left New York, I left with a one-way ticket. Yeah. Like I'm going to work somewhere.

27:45Dh:Yeah. I'm not coming back. No, no.

27:47Rosio Sánchez:And it worked out. I mean, it always works out, right, in the end for anyone.

27:53Dh:I believe so.

27:53Rosio Sánchez:So I think that's, it just felt like it was meant to be. And I was ready for it.

27:59Dh:What are the first few years at Noma like? What are you working on? And talk about being elevated to the head pastry chef there.

28:06Rosio Sánchez:Yeah. I mean, the first, I arrived here in, it was like September, October. What year? In 2009. Yeah. Yeah. And so straight into it, it was straight into it. And it was everything I dreamed of. It was fast and wild and serious, professional, delicious, exciting, interesting, new. There were so many things. Yeah, it was also a lot. Yeah. It was a lot. At the time, the pastry section was different than what it is now. It was a lot bigger. It was like a real pastry section where it had bread. You know, we did rye bread and bread, sourdough bread and petty fours. And we had like five desserts on the menu.

29:02Rosio Sánchez:More conventional at that time. Yeah, it was like that more conventional style. So I really loved that because there was also like a cheese course.

29:13Dh:Yeah. Oh, pastry. That was given to pastry? Yeah. So I think that's also helped me learn a lot about Denmark.

29:22Rosio Sánchez:You know, like rye bread, like classic stuff, bread, rye bread. We also tempered chocolate. We did other petit fours. The desserts were really, you know, at the time, really using a lot of Scandinavian ingredients. So it really was completely new to me and exciting and a completely opposite of WD-50.

29:44Dh:I bet. Because you're using WD-50 as a lab in the Lower East Side. You're not, it's not about terroir, you know, it's about imagination. Yeah. And Noma is the opposite. And to start with a more conventional approach, but using the products of Denmark, I mean, the word foraging is new to the lexicon at that time in 2009. And very inventive and creative, even though, of course, it had been used for years in Europe. But it was being really solidified in Copenhagen with Rene's work. What's it like living here and moving here in 2009 to the city that has its charms, but also it's not easy to live here?

30:24Dh:I recognize that.

30:25Rosio Sánchez:It's not easy, no. But, I mean, I was all in.

30:28Dh:You were all in. So, I mean, let's be honest. Were you, like, in a dorm? No, no, no, no, no. I feel like I imagine, like, the early stages and the early employees, like, living in a dorm and, like.

30:38Rosio Sánchez:No, I was lucky that I was living with one of my coworkers. Yeah. Now that I'm thinking about it, it was also, like, probably the only other girl at the time.

30:55Dh:Wow.

30:55Rosio Sánchez:It was a very different time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. When you look at old photos, it's like, oh, it's only me and Louise Bannon. Yeah. It was very, it was an easy start. Actually, I had a really great first introduction that I stayed on the houseboat. I think it was like for a month. I came so quickly that there was no time to find like anything. So like you can stay on this houseboat until you find something. And that was where the lab was as well at the time.

31:28Dh:But that's amazing. You live on a houseboat. I mean, are you like thinking you're waking up and like, this is crazy in my life right now?

31:34Rosio Sánchez:At the time, I don't know. I feel like it was all about, I just wanted to work.

31:40Dh:Yeah.

31:40Rosio Sánchez:So when I look back on it, it's almost a blur.

31:44Dh:Yeah. And I remember when I left Noma, I was like,

31:52Rosio Sánchez:all right, let's check this city out. Like, what's going on here? Like, it was really, I was really all in, all into work. And I would even try to go when I was off, you know, like, if I wanted to work on something.

32:04Dh:I mean, I'm seeing a pattern. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's what you have to do. Yeah, and it's also exciting. Exactly.

32:12Rosio Sánchez:You know, when...

32:13Dh:You wanted to be there.

32:15Rosio Sánchez:I couldn't, there was the only, that was the only reason I was here.

32:18Dh:Which, let's just, like, unpack this a bit because it's important. I think a lot of the criticism for NOMA was the long hours and the difficult work environment. And you, of course, can be candid about being one of the only female employees. But also, you are very clear you wanted to be there. And I think that is lost when trying to re-litigate Rene Redzepi in the 2010s. And you're here. Let's talk about it because I feel you've made it very clear that to get to the level that you're at now, you needed to put in that time.

32:47Rosio Sánchez:I strongly believe that still. Yeah. I think with anything, with anything. And I think, you know, there's also everyone is different. And I wanted to always be there. Yeah. And I am still a fan. And I'm still like, can I go to the, can I go eat the menu? Yeah. You know, yeah, I couldn't have imagined it a different way. And I think as I was really ambitious at the time, really wanted to take everything in and really conscious of my age. I don't know, for some reason I was like, I'm old. I need to like put in everything I can. And it worked out really well. I mean, I stayed there for about six years approximately.

33:32Rosio Sánchez:And I feel that if I hadn't had hija, I would probably still be there. Because I loved working there so much. Like I always found it inspiring. There's always something to challenge you. so in that sense I feel that it's yeah it's a long it's one of those great restaurants like WD50 and Nova and all these I mean I'm sure there's other ones as well but I feel that it's always pushing the envelope always developing and can't keep up

34:05Dh:and when you're talking about your art this is art we're talking about your creative output and you just artists want to create and talk about a place that allowed you to do that all the time and have the resources. Going to HIA, the way you exit Noma, but you do it in a way that on the surface feels like a natural fit. I mean, you would probably tell me a little bit about introducing tacos and Mexican flavors to the team at Noma and Renee, because Renee's your partner in some ways in HIA, correct? I mean, that's my narrative around how that happened.

34:46Rosio Sánchez:Yeah, I mean, it's, you know, the way that, you know, when I was there, like, what, six years or something, I, going back to the beginning, six months after I started working there was given the title of pastry chef. And then a couple years after, moved to the test kitchen.

35:04Dh:Yeah.

35:04Rosio Sánchez:So the last few years was working in the test kitchen, which really hard and really inspiring, really like the dream job, in my opinion, being around and talking about food and flavor all day and failing all day. So I think around that time also I was starting to feel like what I said to you about, okay, you know, what am I craving when I go? I want to go to Chicago and get a torta from, you know, Totonilco or whatever. So I think those things started coming up. And then I, you know, am I going to be here forever? What's, like, what am I going to do next? Because I could love staying there forever.

35:47Rosio Sánchez:But I also felt this need of, you know, figuring out more about where I came from and really, really, yes, finding a passion that kind of gave everything that I gave to other chefs. How could I do that to myself? And Rene's like always been into Mexican food. I mean, he's a world traveler and all of that. And for me, it was just important to find my own sort of community here and find my own fitting and my own passions and something that I could really be proud of. I think that there's also some underlying thing that had like a chip on my shoulder about being a Mexican-American and proving whatever I thought at the time.

36:36Dh:What do you mean? Like, let's unpack that. I'm curious.

36:38Rosio Sánchez:Yeah. Well, I mean, I grew up in Chicago. My parents are both from Mexico. And you're always in this like limbo. Not American, not Mexican. Depends on where you go.

36:51Dh:Like if, it's this whole thing to unpack.

36:56Rosio Sánchez:But I also felt like, you know, what can I do for, what can I do for this culture, for my culture that is elevating what, the way that people feel about Mexican food by making great Mexican food.

37:08Dh:And you have this opportunity, I believe you're saying at the world's best restaurant, you know, all capitals, like truly Noma had that distinction and still does in many ways to be able to go from there to cook Mexican food in Copenhagen. That's a moment for Mexican cuisine in the world on the global stage. And you knew what you were doing because you knew that that association with Renee as a business partner opening in Copenhagen, that Mexican food deserves this place in the world.

37:38Rosio Sánchez:Well, I also felt that, you know, my resume is like, I'm a serious chef.

37:43Dh:Yeah.

37:44Rosio Sánchez:Like, I'm serious about cooking and all of this and for that to be taken seriously. Yeah. You know, that it's made with care. It's made with passion. And I really love the way that it's developed here in the city. And it's like everything that I've dreamed could happen has happened for it. I love to hear that. Yeah, like I've always wanted it to be something that, you know, the way that I grew up in Chicago, that I have my favorite places. Like if Copenhagen could have that for Mexican food, like, oh, they know what a good taco is. They know what a good tortilla is. They have that. They don't have to think about Tex-Mex.

38:24Dh:No. Flour tortillas are not part of the equation.

38:28Rosio Sánchez:No, for me, that's important because it's also the way that people view, this becomes political in a way, But like people view Mexican food versus how they view Mexicans versus how they view value work versus how they value immigrants. All of that stuff. It's kind of like this like little underlying thing that I always had. And I'm really proud of that because people are loving it here as they do anywhere in the world. Oh, my gosh. The most delicious food in the world. It's delicious. I've said it many times.

38:58Dh:Number one for me and one B is Korean, but one A is Mexican. Obviously, the most delicious food.

39:03Rosio Sánchez:And so we have the taqueria, which is great because we do like a casual classic tacos.

39:10Dh:You're pressing the tortillas to order. That's not classic. I mean, it's classic flavors, of course, but like I'm watching you with the conveyor belt. The tacos we had yesterday were delicious.

39:20Rosio Sánchez:They have to be fresh.

39:21Dh:And that's uncommon. I mean, anywhere. In New York, you never see that.

39:25Rosio Sánchez:And it's so funny because when, like, it was, I believe it was the second year, one of our cooks, you know, we get all sorts of cooks in the taqueria. People that are first timers in the industry or anything like that. And our rule is, like, we only do the fresh tortillas.

39:41Dh:Yeah.

39:42Rosio Sánchez:Right? Because people will get a fresh tortilla that's, like you said, it's uncommon. But it really makes a difference. Yes. And I remember when they were like, oh, let's eat some staff meal. We have some tortillas here from like, it was like five, 10 minutes that they were sitting there. And he's like, no, that's an old one. And I'm like, oh my God, you are so, like you're such a snot.

40:03Dh:You're Rocio-pilled. This is bad. Talk about it. This is really bad. I love it.

40:06Rosio Sánchez:No, but I feel that it's great. They're understanding quality.

40:10Dh:Yeah.

40:10Rosio Sánchez:It's really fantastic. And I'm really happy that we have the restaurant and the taqueria.

40:16Dh:So we're sitting here in Sanchez, your namesake restaurant, open in 2017. So you're evolving this conversation with the folks here in Copenhagen. You've introduced tacos. You're pressing tortillas to order. But you likely, I'm just guessing, wanted to say more. Talk about opening this restaurant.

40:35Rosio Sánchez:Yeah, I didn't plan to really open this restaurant. You know, we had the taqueria and I was like, I just want to make tacos. And that's what I'm going to do from now on. Something very casual and fun that we can change often. so then Noma I did Noma Mexico in 2016 yeah I didn't expect that they were doing another pop-up Noma and they said we're doing it in Mexico and you should come and be a like creative collaborator with us and I was like yeah sign me up and yeah so I was doing the R &D with them for Noma Mexico so much fun loved it you know it's the same team so I felt like Like it was like jamming again with the team.

41:20Rosio Sánchez:Actually was one of the most fun experiences for me in the test kitchen. I don't know if it's because I didn't have the same obligations, but I felt it was so smooth and easy. And like everybody was just jamming in a good way. You know, like things were coming out and we were excited. Like this is tasty. Boom, done. It's finished.

41:41Dh:And this is in the Yucatan, correct? Yes. Yeah. Very interesting place in Mexico. product-wise.

41:47Rosio Sánchez:It was outstanding.

41:48Dh:Yeah.

41:49Rosio Sánchez:Outstanding and fun.

41:50Dh:Yeah.

41:51Rosio Sánchez:And working on the menu with them was a blast and then I would come back to work and check things here. At the time, this restaurant, we were about to head close. It was like a Spanish restaurant and we were about to take it over for an actual bigger flagship taqueria.

42:10Dh:Oh, interesting.

42:12Rosio Sánchez:And then after Noma Mexico, I came back and I was like I was like I don't know what's what's the menu gonna be and I was writing on this board I'm like let's just do like a five course menu and like snacks and something more yeah exciting and had I not had that experience in Noma going back and creating dishes in Mexico um I don't think that

42:34Dh:Sanchez would have opened it wouldn't yeah you wouldn't have the inspiration because it wasn't planned yeah and it was just like why don't we just do this like casual place but also like taking

42:44Rosio Sánchez:a time to make things a little more than just tacos. And for me, that was like five course menus feels like something very, very approachable. So that's how it happened. And it really happened like that. There was like no plan. And it was a smash hit. We were so busy. And then over the times, we've kind of narrowed down the menu a bit, which makes sense.

43:09Dh:And prefix only now. Now it's only a tasting menu. Only tasting, which is a wonderful length, I think. Yeah.

43:15Rosio Sánchez:And also we used to have brunch and now we close brunch.

43:19Dh:That's good. But I love. You love brunch.

43:23Rosio Sánchez:I do.

43:24Dh:Wow. You're such a nerd. I love it. You love cooking so much.

43:27Rosio Sánchez:Well, we opened and I was like, I just want to have like eggs and tortillas.

43:33Dh:Well, no doubt. Mexican breakfast and brunch, nothing better. No. Nothing better.

43:37Rosio Sánchez:So I like literally no one is telling me to do this. It's just like, we should do this because we can. Imagine having a place with like all these like a concha and this and that.

43:48Dh:Oh, beautiful.

43:49Rosio Sánchez:You know, so shortly after we opened, we launched the brunch and we were way too busy all the time. And only now this year we close brunch.

43:59Dh:Yeah.

44:00Rosio Sánchez:Because I'm like, I love it so much, but I also want this restaurant to be more tasting menu focused. Still approachable and casual. but just for the team, you know? Yeah. Just to have that one focus, not having these different services.

44:15Dh:So you've expanded the Taqueria business in Copenhagen to multiple locations, of course. But this restaurant's been open for a while, 2017. I mean, how are you thinking about evolving your career? Because I know you're thinking about it and I know I could ask you if you're thinking about opening a new restaurant. Are you going to do a breakfast-only spa? All-day cafe? Oh, that would be fun.

44:35Rosio Sánchez:Cookbook.

44:36Dh:We can talk about that too. You tell me as much as you want to say.

44:39Rosio Sánchez:I would love to. I mean, getting into a cookbook, that's the next step. The restaurant, I really want to run it to develop with the team that we have and really focus on the menu. And now that we've been here with a restaurant since 2017 and Taqueria is 10 years, there's also been a lot of other restaurants that are Latin, Mexican influenced, which is good. Then it also allows us to be more creative. Yep. Because when we opened, I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Let's make sure that we don't confuse the audience because we're in Denmark, haven't had Mexican food before. I don't want to have a restaurant where it's like, here's a mole of blah, blah, blah.

45:23Rosio Sánchez:And then people are like, what's a mole?

45:25Dh:Exactly.

45:26Rosio Sánchez:So I really like the context of it for me when we opened was a little more like straightforward. word cochinita tacos and you know emoladas and you know these delicious things uh are you doing

45:38Dh:um like uh seafood as well yes yes yes yes and uh yeah and so now yeah and so now it's like i love

45:46Rosio Sánchez:all those things but now we're okay how can we get creative and the team is inspired and now people understand mexican food okay we can push it a little bit but it still should stay casual still should stay something that's delicious and fun. And we always end with like a build your own taco, for example. Yeah. And like on the menu now, we have a langoustine pescadilla.

46:10Dh:Oh, man. Damn, sounds great.

46:13Rosio Sánchez:Salsa roja with a little bit of rose flavor and habanero mayo. It's so like, it's just like in another level.

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48:05Rosio Sánchez:at onepeloton.com.

48:07Dh:On This Is Taste, we ask guests about the discerning taste. So to close this interview, here's a little rapid-fire fast and furious taste check. Are you ready? Ready. All right. The best fruit.

48:16Rosio Sánchez:Oh my gosh. Mangos or also, sorry, berries.

48:22Dh:Oh, yeah.

48:23Rosio Sánchez:When they're like in the peak season, like a good raspberry, a good strawberry.

48:28Dh:Oh, I've had the best raspberries in my life in Denmark. Exactly. So good. The worst vegetable.

48:32Rosio Sánchez:We don't get good mangoes here. So I would say if I'm here, I'll take a raspberry or strawberry. If I'm in another country, maybe it's a mango.

48:39Dh:I was going to say. The worst vegetable.

48:43Rosio Sánchez:I'm not a fan of artichokes right now.

48:45Dh:Yeah. Because of what? Jerusalem artichokes. Yeah, yeah. Just not feeling it. No, no, no. Tough to clean.

48:53Rosio Sánchez:No, there was also tough to clean. They're a little too earthy. I remember we made a dessert once in Noma and after that I was done with it.

49:01Dh:Yeah, yeah. I respect that. You've been burned by the Jerusalem artichoke. What is your typical breakfast?

49:09Rosio Sánchez:Coffee. I don't normally have breakfast, but recently, I mean, if I have a late, late, late breakfast, It's a Danish yogurt, softo yogurt with some dates and olive oil.

49:23Dh:Oh, a wonderful combination. It's so delicious.

49:27Rosio Sánchez:So delicious.

49:28Dh:The best dessert.

49:29Rosio Sánchez:The best dessert? Yeah.

49:31Dh:Your face.

49:33Rosio Sánchez:You know, I'm a sucker for like classic Anglaise desserts, you know, like creme brulee or things like that. Yeah. I mean.

49:42Dh:It's just the classics, right? Yeah, the classics are the best. They love that here, too, Copenhagen. I feel the classics, those are the sips of desserts you're seeing.

49:53Rosio Sánchez:For a long time, it was like frangipan tarts.

49:55Dh:Oh, wow.

49:56Rosio Sánchez:Yeah, like that was for me, like my thing, yeah. Now it's more like custards.

50:01Dh:When you're craving fast food, where are you going? Here, it's not like a, it's not the same as the States, right?

50:09Rosio Sánchez:But we do have poulet. Oh, yeah. I'm biased. My husband is a restaurant. But it's very tasty. It's fried chicken, spicy fried chicken. It's crispy. And I'm not happy to say it, but I eat chips as a junk.

50:25Dh:Yeah. It sounds good to me. A restaurant you wish you could bring back from the dead.

50:31Rosio Sánchez:Wiley's Restaurant. Yeah. WD-50. I feel that it would be so interesting to see what it would be now.

50:38Dh:I know. The way it would be articulated in modern times. Yeah. But also in that neighborhood would be interesting too. which has changed a lot.

50:47Rosio Sánchez:Let's hope he reopens something.

50:49Dh:I mean, I love what he's doing at Stretch. I love it. His pizzas are great. I feel he's happy making pizzas.

50:55Rosio Sánchez:Yeah, yeah, yeah. I had amazing esquite pizza.

50:58Dh:He's cool.

50:59Rosio Sánchez:With the pasote oil. I was like, what the hell is this? It's so delicious.

51:02Dh:It's cool. It doesn't get enough recognition, I feel, Stretch. And he's been on the show a couple times to talk about it.

51:09Rosio Sánchez:It's so delicious.

51:10Dh:Yeah. Man, it's a good pizzeria. Your favorite city in the world to visit for food?

51:16Rosio Sánchez:Damn. Locally, I would say Paris. Yeah. Yeah. Paris, I love to go there too. Septim is like my go-to fun restaurant too. It's like, I love those kinds of restaurants, like casual, but serious. Yeah.

51:32Dh:And you can like take a quick flight there.

51:34Rosio Sánchez:Yeah. So yeah, for me, it's more that. Obviously, if it's more inspiration and being more knowledgeable, but it's in somewhere in Mexico City, maybe.

51:43Dh:Last one, your favorite sandwich. I do like a good club or like a cochinita. With a nice torta. I like the club, too. Both are great.

51:54Rosio Sánchez:They're like classics.

51:55Dh:Oh, so good.

51:56Rosio Sánchez:But one is spicy, one is not. It's hard to get a good club, though.

52:01Dh:Sounds like you might have a business opportunity here. Seems like you could teach this country to do another thing, maybe a club sandwich.

52:08Rosio Sánchez:Yeah.

52:08Dh:You gave them tacos and now you can give them the club. Oh my God.

52:11Rosio Sánchez:Imagine bringing Jardinere here.

52:13Dh:I mean, you've got wonderful pizzerias here, but maybe there's a Jardinere style pizzeria, Chicago style, tavern only.

52:22Rosio Sánchez:Oh my gosh. Yeah, yeah. Next one, next one.

52:24Dh:Rocio, this has been so much fun. Thank you so much for joining This Is Taste.

52:28Rosio Sánchez:Thank you for having me. Thank you.

52:33Dh:Driti, welcome to This Is Taste. Great to meet you tonight.

52:36Rosio Sánchez:Thank you so much. It's really wonderful to meet you as well.

52:39Dh:Now, I've interviewed a lot of chefs over these six years of doing the podcast. And we've done post-service interviews. We'll talk about Bar Vitrine. We literally just had an incredible meal and we're here in Copenhagen. I've never done it in like a loading dock. We're in like a loading dock. There's an elevator here. I think the trash is put out back. This space is really unique.

53:02Rosio Sánchez:It is. It's quite unique. I don't think it was ever meant to be what it is now. But luckily, we've managed to transform it into something pretty amazing, I think.

53:10Dh:Well, before we get to your story, going to the CIA, you know, working in Boca Raton, which we've got to talk about a little bit. And of course, working at Noma and opening Bar Vitrine. I just want to know, like, we're in Copenhagen. I have a long list. But where do you go out when you're not, you know, working?

53:29Rosio Sánchez:I mean, I have to say, this is a slightly guilty pleasure, because I feel like this is not on most people's list. but it's this Chinese dumpling place called Fu Hao. Yeah. I think that's my most visited restaurant by far. Yeah. That's where I celebrated my 30th birthday.

53:43Dh:Oh, wow.

53:43Rosio Sánchez:So that was a fun time, yeah, to gather like 12 people around the table and then just have a mountain of dumplings. I don't think it gets much better than that.

53:49Dh:Listen, that sounds amazing.

53:50Rosio Sánchez:Yeah, it's pretty good.

53:51Dh:What about chef peers? Like people who you worked with at Noma or where do you like to go out?

53:57Rosio Sánchez:Oh, that's a slightly harder question. I think like where do I like to go out with them? Yeah, like a restaurant. wise yeah i think tony at popple is doing a great job he's uh really made it quite interesting i think and he's constantly innovating which is quite fun i think uh propaganda which is she's a very close friend of mine she was my intern at noma back in the day and now she's running her own uh korean spot and she actually just opened a restaurant called next door which is a tasting menu also delicious i think that's a great spot and then i think the third one i would like to name is Saji, which is an Indonesian spot.

54:31Dh:I love these, the recommendations. And really, when you come to Copenhagen, we've got the long shadow of Noma, but we've had so much more happening. And I think a big part of our time here is to really unpack Copenhagen post Noma in many ways. Talk about, you know, moving from India to go to the CIA, Culinary Institute, to upstate New York. What's that time like there? And are you thinking that you want to end up working at a place like Noma?

55:02Rosio Sánchez:I think CIA was an interesting time for me, for sure. I think it was the first time I was actually away from home. I was quite bullheaded and that was the only college I'd applied to in all of the country, all of the world, I would say. Yeah. So that was, yeah, I was quite ambitious with that. Luckily I got in, which was great. I think I kind of knew that I wanted to be in cooking. I don't think I'm someone who can actually sit still. It's been very long, so I think food does well for me, where I can move a lot and multitask. But no, America was great. I think I learned a lot. I actually did the pastry program, so I turned to be a pastry chef.

55:33Rosio Sánchez:And now life has changed, but that's good for the better, I think. And then moving to Noma, that was what happened in 2019. I came like so many others to do an internship there. And then I got asked to stay on, which was very lucky for me, I think. I learned, I think, the most I could possibly have in the amount of time and space that I did.

55:52Dh:So before Noma, you could extern pretty much anywhere you want in the country and you end up in Boca Raton, Florida, somebody who grew up in India and around India and then had a little time in upstate New York. How the hell did you end up in Boca?

56:08Rosio Sánchez:I don't know. I think there were a few options, right? You could either go into New York City, which most, I think, smart people did. Because they got significant experience at all of the restaurants that are down there. But I don't know. I think I was in the pastry program. And I wanted to see what it would be like to potentially have a stable job in the industry. And I think hotels are one of the places that offer that. And I was like, let's see what this is about. And you actually get paid as an intern, which is very rare to hear. So, yeah, I chose to go to a resort in Florida, which I thought was a great place to spend the winter months in.

56:36Dh:Sure.

56:37Rosio Sánchez:Beautiful beaches, very strange work experience, I will say. Yeah, I was, like I told you, I was there for Passover. So I got to experience Jewish culture to quite an extreme. Yeah, we had a rabbi bless every pot. There was like about 3 ,000 pots.

56:52Dh:Yeah, lots of rabbi time with you, Chef.

56:54Rosio Sánchez:Yeah, didn't know that that was a thing, but I learned a lot.

56:56Dh:You made some black and white cookies too.

56:57Rosio Sánchez:I made so many black and white cookies, yeah. That was an interesting time, like I said. Oh, and there was a Publix with valet parking.

57:04Dh:Oh. Didn't know that was a thing. That is the most fancy publics I've ever heard about.

57:08Rosio Sánchez:Yeah, same. So that was my time in Boca Raton.

57:11Dh:Well, let's get to Noma. And you work there as an intern. You're applying. What's it like landing in Copenhagen and working this kind of legendary, infamous in some circles and highly influential program with Renee and team?

57:29Rosio Sánchez:I think it's extremely intimidating because it's everything you imagine it'll be and then so much more. I think it's the largest, most spectacular kitchen you can possibly imagine walking into, like the massive hallway. So much space to actually be in the kitchen as opposed to the dining room, which is the case for most restaurants. And then you see Rene in the jacket that he's always in. And he's exactly as you expect him to be. And he's right there and, you know, greeting you on your first day. So it's a very intimidating space to be in. And I really never worked in anything even close to that caliber before.

57:58Rosio Sánchez:So for me, it was a really big leap. And I think I definitely felt it. both as an intern and then much more once I was actually hired. Because then the responsibilities pile on. And then I think the first six months I was completely underwater.

58:10Dh:Yeah, talk about being underwater at Noma. I mean, I know there's like all chefs are underwater at some point. But I just can't imagine the pressure and the intensity. And then like the camaraderie that you kind of garner during that time.

58:24Rosio Sánchez:No, absolutely. I think that's such a big part of why people stay. the team is like I've never seen so many individuals who care so deeply about what they do in a space and I think that's what makes it so special and that's where people stay for as long as they do because that's one of the kitchens that people don't leave I think the people who leave is like the minimum time you spend there is at least two years and there's people who have spent like 12 14 years there and they're still going strong and there's several people in between that so I think the people are really what make it no but I feel like so much of the hardship is, you know, I don't know, labeling condis at 1am on a Saturday night.

59:00Dh:Yeah.

59:01Rosio Sánchez:Back down. Yeah, that builds some team spirit right there. No, it was a very difficult time, for sure, at least the initial part. And then we actually went into lockdown very soon into me being there. So I think I had a very different experience than a lot of other people there. But in all the ways, I think it was the right experience for me. And I got a lot out of it.

59:21Dh:you spent five years there which i mean did you think about opening up your own thing or was that an opportunity that was presented to you um i definitely did not want to open my own thing

59:34Rosio Sánchez:i actually as of january i think two years ago uh which is like eight months before this place opened i was like i'm done i'm never cooking again oh wow that was the intention um so i was actually trying to work my way into an admin role at noma yeah um because the company is so big so There's so many opportunities to step away from food, but still be around it, which was the intention. But then this opportunity with Ricardo just came up. And it was like, let's do a wine bar. And you don't really have to cook. And it can be cold food. And it can be a few things, you know. Like, I thought, great, step away from cooking.

1:00:05Rosio Sánchez:And I can still do this. And, like, I have the space and the energy. Like, that I can do. And then this place took, I think, seven months longer to open than it was supposed to. And just in that time, I think I just kind of refueled. And then it was like, actually, I want to be doing a lot more.

1:00:19Dh:I mean, that's the thing. When you just said, like, it's just a wine bar, and we just tried so many dishes, and a lot of it is centered around your own background from South Asia. But also, you see Danish products all over the menu as well. And I mean, there's a lot of ambition there. So I mean, it's not just a wine bar. I liken it to Wild Air in many ways, and the way that these dishes are very polished. I mean, tell us about the menu at Bar Vitrine and how this is so personal to you in many ways. And you're bringing these flavors to Copenhagen.

1:00:51Rosio Sánchez:It definitely is. But I, so I think for me, cooking, like a lot of it was learning what my food was. Because I'd never done that before. This is the first time I was cooking my own food. And it was, it's changed a lot from when we opened, right? Because it was like, in the beginning, it was, I think this, so I should do this. And there was no 27 layers between me thinking something and it actually being on the menu. which was the case very much until this point in my life. So I think this was a big step for me in many ways. And I've definitely evolved in the year and a half that we've been open.

1:01:21Rosio Sánchez:I think my idea was never to do traditional Indian food because that would be really silly to do in this space. There's no way that you could actually pull it off. And I think if you're going to call it that, then you need to deliver. And I know that I can't where I am. I think now I'm just cooking what I actually want to eat. I think that's really the driving force behind the menu. and we change the menu every week. So every week we change the dish. And I think that has been really significant in my development because it's forced us to be creative even when you don't necessarily have ideas. And since we've put that out there, we have to do it.

1:01:53Rosio Sánchez:And so that's been, yeah, I think that's been great for us.

1:01:57Dh:Let's go over a couple of the dishes we just had. There's a citrus starter that I just loved. I thought it was a contrast of chili and citrus. What was going on in that one?

1:02:08Rosio Sánchez:I think a lot of bright flavors. There's so much citrus that's available in France and Italy right now. It's peak season. I've never seen this many kinds of citrus in my life before. So, I mean, when you have an ingredient this wonderful, I think you need to use it. Yeah. And that's what we're doing here. Kiwis, it's peak season in Italy. Like, they're incredible in flavor. I think for me, a lot of the dishes, like a lot of the food is about balancing all of the things. Yeah. Like, I think that's quite central to the way I grew up eating. There was always so much going on on a plate. It was never two things.

1:02:37Rosio Sánchez:It was like at least eight, you know, and I think that's kind of the idea with which I cook now.

1:02:42Dh:Yeah. A lot of the dishes were accompanied with rotis and flatbreads too, sourdoughs.

1:02:47Rosio Sánchez:I do like bread.

1:02:48Dh:You do, and they're terrific. I loved that portion. There was like bread courses with almost every course. The pork neck and lardo with pomegranate, remind me what else was on there. I thought that was really good. I thought that I love, obviously we're in Denmark, so pork is almost like a national pastime.

1:03:05Rosio Sánchez:It is.

1:03:05Dh:And you really grilled it really beautifully. It had a nice smoky essence to it. Perfect wine bar dish.

1:03:12Rosio Sánchez:Thank you. A lot of the ideas, like I said, we come from not just me, but also the rest of the team. We actually sit down and brainstorm because I think we have a really small team here. And a big part of keeping people in this business is for them to be a part of it, like feel like it's theirs. And I think that's something that's very important to me and to everyone who works here. I don't think I've ever worked in a team that's as cohesive as this one. And I really appreciate that about everyone. So I think you'll see not just me on the menu, but also the other chefs that work with me.

1:03:40Dh:Who's coming here? Like in the restaurant, like who are your customers?

1:03:45Rosio Sánchez:Ah, who are my customers?

1:03:46Dh:Yeah.

1:03:47Rosio Sánchez:Actually, all kinds of people. I love that about this place. We get like the young wine nerds who are like super into it and here for like that unicorn bottle. And then we have like an elderly couple who lives down the street and comes like every third week. We have like, we have the, another aspect boys who are literally down the street. They hear about five times a week. So, you know, shadow occasion, you're going to miss them today, but they hear very often. It's really become a neighborhood spot. And I think that's not something we expected, but I love that that's happened.

1:04:15Dh:And like, to paint the picture, I mean, it's in the lobby of an office building in Copenhagen, like in kind of like the central business district area. I'm not being that articulate, but it's kind of off to the side. How did you figure out this tiny space to make it work? Because it's really working for you.

1:04:32Rosio Sánchez:I think Niels and Ricardo played a big part in that. I think the design was a lot on Niels and how he created this space and how we were using it. And I think we've really managed to curate the space exactly to our needs. Like every centimeter counted. Everything was measured 18 times over because we have so little space. Like the whole space is 30 square meters, including the kitchen.

1:04:52Dh:Crazy, so small.

1:04:53Rosio Sánchez:So we really had to make the most of it.

1:04:55Dh:And it's an electric kitchen, I imagine, right?

1:04:56Rosio Sánchez:And now there's fire.

1:04:57Dh:You have fire in there? Yeah. I thought maybe you were like faking or had a grill out back. No, no.

1:05:01Rosio Sánchez:I have a little yakitori. I squeezed in there. That's what you got going on.

1:05:05Dh:I see. I see.

1:05:06Rosio Sánchez:I can give a little kitchen tour if you have, you know, 45 minutes after.

1:05:11Dh:No, I really appreciate that. And I think that you're using the best of the space. So tell me a little bit about the new cafe that you opened. I mean, it's really interesting to open a coffee and pastry idea in a city that has a few of those. Just a few. Yeah.

1:05:28Rosio Sánchez:Yeah, we just opened a coffee shop called Cabin. It's inspired by a cabin in the woods. So when you go in, you'll see that immediately.

1:05:36Dh:Nice.

1:05:36Rosio Sánchez:Yeah, we're serving Tim Winnabow coffee and we're actually doing our own pastries, which is why we're trying to create a little space for ourselves in a very, very busy market. But no, we're quite excited about what we're doing. I think the product is amazing and we really enjoy what we're putting out there.

1:05:49Dh:And this is a very established Norwegian roaster. It is, yes.

1:05:54Rosio Sánchez:He's doing some amazing stuff. He has his own farms. He's like from beginning to end. He wants it to be sustainable. He wants the farmers to be paid well. They have a big roastery up in Norway. It's like incredible coffee. I think it's worth a visit if you ever have the time. And the best part of the thing for me is that he's just such a wonderful man.

1:06:12Dh:I love that.

1:06:13Rosio Sánchez:He's been here so many times and it's always great to meet him and have him here. That's great.

1:06:17Dh:And you are going to, tomorrow morning at 3.30, you're going to wake up and bake four or five items just straight up. What are you doing tomorrow morning?

1:06:25Rosio Sánchez:Some bun and cheese. Copenhagen classic. Got to have that on there.

1:06:28Dh:Havarti.

1:06:29Rosio Sánchez:Of course. Festi-laven spola. It's Festi-laven spola season. So we have one of those on the menu. A chai cookie.

1:06:36Dh:Yeah.

1:06:37Rosio Sánchez:Got to have some tea on there as well. Yeah. So I'm going to be here quite nice and early in my tiny little oven.

1:06:41Dh:few rounds of baking but few rounds and then you'll have the the cafe set up and it'll be 7 a.m

1:06:46Rosio Sánchez:and then i bike it over and then yeah oh my gosh by copenhagen it's very very copenhagen of you

1:06:52Dh:it's been so fun catching up with you hanging out in your back loading area truly truly special thank you so much for joining this taste thank you so much for having me

1:07:06Dh:This is Taste is hosted and produced by Eliza Abarbanal and me, Matt Rodbar. The show is edited by lead producer Clayton Gumbert and supervised by Pat Stango, director of media production and development at Penguin Random House. Thanks to Shalia Harris and the production team at Penguin Random House. Theme music by Steve Rydell. Episode portraits by Louise Zergon Pomeroy. logo designed by Ellie Skirzat and Ian Dingham. Visit Taste Online at tastecooking.com and make sure to subscribe to our newsletter to keep updated on all cool things in the world of taste. Stitch Fix. Shopping is hard. Let's talk about it.

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