745: Jessica Koslow Always Wanted to Cook Dinner. “Sqirl After Dark” Says It All. 

10:34Jessica Koslow:And Tommy's like a really fun guy, like really nice to meet him. I was recording a podcast at the LA Food Podcast there. so I've never done a podcast in a in a working restaurant that was in that was a first for me

10:46Matt Rodbard:and that was that was pretty cool had some ASMR knife clanging in the background definitely some

10:50Jessica Koslow:clanging there was there was a large group of folks who are probably working in like downtown or Chinatown like they're wearing like their badges and having a nice lunch and here we are yapping away about LA food it was it was kind of fun but um thanks thanks Luca for having me on But I thought that Tommy was on to something with this idea during the Dodgers season. Every home game of the Dodgers, he does a tribute hot dog to the opposing team. So like if the Reds are there, he's doing like a Cincinnati Reds, Reds Cincinnati Chili.

11:21Matt Rodbard:I'm such an Angeleno. I'm like, why are you giving a tribute to the opposing team?

11:24Jessica Koslow:Yeah, I know. Where's the LA hot dog? No, he has his own hot dogs on the menu, and I think he uses, on those hot dogs, he uses the Philippe mustard from Philippe's.

11:36Matt Rodbard:Okay.

11:36Jessica Koslow:So that's cool. I mean, the guy's like a real—

11:38Matt Rodbard:Okay, point for that.

11:38Jessica Koslow:Okay, yeah, he's a real L.A. guy. He's definitely representing L.A., but I think it was just like having fun with these away game hot dogs. But what I think is cool is he would call these restaurants in these cities and buy either merch from them or buy actual ingredients. So get like a catering delivery in order. So we're supporting other restaurants and other markets. And if you're there as an opposing team, you get to have some hometown food. Or if you're like from that area, like you live in L.A., but you like come from Detroit, you get to have a Coney or Chicago, maybe a Hot Doug's tribute.

12:09Jessica Koslow:I mean, I could talk about every team, really. I mean, there's hot.

12:12Matt Rodbard:OK, stick to the Dodgers.

12:13Jessica Koslow:Stick to the Dodgers. But it's a cool place. I think La Sordid is like definitely on to something here. Really cool, cool vibe in there.

12:22Matt Rodbard:Oh, I will check it out when I'm in the area. Yeah.

12:25Jessica Koslow:What's your next Mexico City rec?

12:27Matt Rodbard:My third Mexico City rec, for this section at least, is El Tibur, which is a new seafood spot in Condesa. Tibur, like the shark. It has this gleaming stainless steel bar when you walk in and a really nice kind of open area overlooking the street, which is this beautiful, charming street like many streets in Condesa are. And really delicious, fresh seafood specials that are going on. I went there because my friend recommended their tuna tostada, which I would say is a very trendy dish in Mexico City, probably ever since Contramar popularized the tuna tostada. Also, bluefin tuna is in season in Mexico right now.

13:04Matt Rodbard:So I really wanted to go. And they do it with a housemate XO sauce and avocado on top. Ooh, great. Very delicious. Other delicious things I had. They do a compache leche de tigre that has macadamia nut kind of milk as the base of that leche, which I think is smart. and these giant grilled shrimp with salsa matcha. Maybe the biggest shrimp I've had. Really good drinks, kind of just like a fun weekend vibe. I think like I ate a lot of really good seafood on this trip and that was definitely one of the highlights for me.

13:32Jessica Koslow:Man, I love this tuna season and the tuna taking over on a tostada front. So good.

13:39Matt Rodbard:I also did go to Contramar for lunch when I was there. I had, you know, the classic like four hour Contramar lunch and I did have their tuna tostada, which I think is one of the standards. And it was quite good. But I didn't want to allocate one of my precious three things to a restaurant that I think is very tried and true. But I will just say that I do think Contramar for lunch is very much.

13:58Jessica Koslow:You're so judicious with your Instagram, I must say. Like you are literally the only person who's gone to Contramar not taking a photo of the fish.

14:06Matt Rodbard:Well, if you must know, I think that the fish, which is this kind of split two-tone fish, is not the best thing to order. I did, of course, get it at the table. And what I would say, the other trick there is the servers who work there, who are all just like incredible, you know, lifer season servers. If you want, they will kind of take the fish off of the bone for you and they cut it in one piece. It's so masterful and really cool to see.

14:29Jessica Koslow:Oh, I can't wait to go there. That's one of my restaurants.

14:31Matt Rodbard:So I did eat that fish. But I do think the best things I had at Contramar this time, if we are going to talk about it.

14:36Jessica Koslow:Yeah, we can go.

14:37Matt Rodbard:are the soft shell crab tostada that they were doing seasonally and the tuna tostada. And then the tuna like al pastor that they do, which really tastes like pork. But this specific one, I'll bring it back to El Tibur, which I think is a really cool kind of newer spot to go to.

14:54Jessica Koslow:Love that. Thanks, Eliza. What's your last thing? My last thing is Sura Craft Kitchen. It's a recommendation from my new friend Mikey. Shouts to that. it's in a very kind of quiet block of the Arts District near downtown. It's a really, really unique restaurant. I'd even say it's one of the most unique restaurants I've been to in America in a year or so. It's from the chef O.K. Enoch. He is a Turkish chef who worked in fine dining throughout Turkey, moved to America. I think his wife worked in the medical field and her job kind of bounced him around. first in New York where he worked at EMP, later at Per Se.

15:33Jessica Koslow:He took a break during the pandemic, was a long-haul trucker. And then his wife was transferred to Los Angeles and he opened up this place after working at Melis for a time being. I call it unique because you basically walk off the street. It's kind of a quiet street and you walk into this oasis. It's just like this really, it's got a cool vintage hi-fi. it's kind of a casual seating I mean he has a nice design sense but it's nothing formal or fancy and you're greeted with like a touch screen and you order at the touch screen very like something I saw a lot in Korea it's more common there and you know really nice photography for each of the dishes so we ordered up three I'll talk about those and the craziest thing is that it's okay in the kitchen and that is it literally one chef possibly a dishwasher I did not see another human being in the kitchen, but I think probably there was a dishwasher in the back.

16:29Jessica Koslow:But it was literally he's doing everything himself. And the food is really good. And I really want to go back because we only ordered a few things. And I just like I like this idea of he probably maybe set it up as like a fine dining tasting menu to start. And he maybe pivoted. I don't know. I've read Rezzy had a great story about him and would love to have him on the podcast to hear his story because it's really cool. But some of the dishes. So I had a thinly sliced branzino marinated with mustard and Jeju tangerine balsamic. Really delicious bite there. It was like a crisp. It was like a muscle-shaped tartlet.

17:05Jessica Koslow:It's like a single biter. Delicious. He did a cold meze. It was like a yogurt, and there's radishes in there and almonds and black cumin, just kind of like a nice spread with some breads. And then we had these bulgur shells filled with meat. And they had yogurt in there and sumac. and there was a parsley chimichurri on the side. So like these little like dumpling bites. So we only had a few dishes. We had other plans that evening, but listen, need to go back there. It's Sora Craft Kitchen.

17:35Matt Rodbard:Okay, I'm adding this to my LA map. Thank you for sharing your LA things with me.

17:38Jessica Koslow:Thanks, Eliza. Appreciate it.

17:43Jessica Koslow:This episode is brought to you by Masterclass. You know how on the show, we're always talking to people who've spent decades obsessing over one thing, whether it's modern Korean food, new expressions of the Jewish deli, or the perfect vampiro taco in South LA. That depth of knowledge is the thing I find endlessly fascinating. And honestly, it's a big part of why I'm into masterclass. There are classes taught by some of the best chefs, writers, and thinkers in the world. People who've put in the work. And the lessons are short enough that I can actually fit them in. Thought leaders like Michael Lewis, Amy Poehler, and chefs Gordon Ramsay and Roy Choi all teach their own masterclasses.

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18:58Jessica Koslow:So when it comes to the meat I'm actually cooking at home, I care about the same things. That's why I've been using ButcherBox. I was just sent a two-pound chuck roast, and I made the most amazing pot roast. It was slowly cooked on the stovetop and I put it together in minutes. ButcherBox delivers over 100 premium protein options straight to your door. Grass-fed beef, organic chicken, responsibly raised pork, wild-caught seafood, all of it is antibiotic-free, hormone-free, and independently verified. It's the kind of quality you'd seek out at a great butcher shop just without the trip. The plans are fully customizable, shipping is always free, and as a certified B Corp, they're genuinely doing things right from farm to doorstep.

19:42Jessica Koslow:Right now, new members get their choice of organic beef, chicken breast, or shrimp in every box for an entire year, plus$20 off your first box. Go to butcherbox.com slash taste. That's butcherbox.com slash taste and use our link so they know we sent you. Jessica Koslow, welcome back to This Is Taste. So great to see you.

20:03Aliza Abarbanel:Great to see you too. It's been a big couple of months.

20:05Jessica Koslow:It sure has. We're in L.A. I wanted to invite you into our L.A. studio to really just talk about Squirrel after hours, after dark or during dark. I feel like there's so many questions about what you're doing with the menu. I was able to experience it firsthand. I can't wait to talk more about it with Eliza back in the studio. But listen, congratulations.

20:28Aliza Abarbanel:Thank you.

20:29Jessica Koslow:So I wanted to have this conversation. I dined at your restaurant two nights ago. And I was kind of like booking these LA restaurant interviews in real time because I wanted to really get folks who I've been at the restaurant and tried some of the dishes. And, you know, it's literally it's two weeks since opening. We're recording this in early March. I guess my early observation is, Jessica, this is the restaurant you've been building your career towards. You are a student of the game. You love restaurants. Our last episode I'm linking to in the show notes, terrific conversation about your history.

21:05Jessica Koslow:We're not talking about your history. We're talking about present. But you really care deeply about restaurants and you haven't had that opportunity in the long career of yours to actually do dinner service. And what you've done is you've really, really polished this restaurant in its pre-launch phase, which I can't say is very common.

21:25Aliza Abarbanel:Thank you. Yeah. I would say the last two weeks have been explosive for us. The feedback has been overwhelmingly positive. The food is just so delicious. And that's just one part of the experience. And I love that you say that, like, I'm a student of restaurants. I'm a student of the experience because my takeaway has been over the course of my career that it isn't just about the food. It's one dynamic part of it. But the other things that make a restaurant great are like feeling, like how do you feel sitting on the street, taking in the night sky, enjoying a great drink, enjoying a great dish, having beautiful company?

22:08Aliza Abarbanel:What are the tones like at the table? How does a server make you feel? All of those things build to being a place that you want to return to, that you want to talk about, and that you can't wait to experience again. And I think that when I approached dinner, that was it. It was a holistic experience. And in some ways, I mean, it's been nailed. And in other ways, there's little tweaks that I'm still looking to to grow and evolve dinner service. but I think your takeaway might just be about more than the food.

22:42Jessica Koslow:I mean, absolutely agree. And it's rare, again, to be able to have that statement that we're really feeling dialed from day one, essentially. So how do you get there? Because it seems like some restaurants, they just have to go through those pains. Did you just, with your service, and I have notes on that, really positive, did you drill? I mean, the culinary, I mean, we've been reading your sub stack. So you've been really like building in public, bad term, but the truth, you know, for us. So you've been thinking about, you've been really testing these recipes for a long time.

23:16Aliza Abarbanel:And also, I'm sorry that I haven't written on the Substack recently. Yeah, right. It's just been very busy and I have to applaud all writers for it. That is a job. It is a career.

23:25Jessica Koslow:Thank you for respecting the game. Truly respect the game.

23:29Aliza Abarbanel:It takes a lot, you know, you have to be in the moment sitting and it's just like everything is being thrown at me right now and I have so much I'd like to write about. And I just haven't. So I will get back there in a second.

23:41Jessica Koslow:You'll get there.

23:41Aliza Abarbanel:The service, we're talking about the service. In some ways, the role of restaurateur or where I'm at now is in some regards more director, casting director in general, right? And you want to have people that are a voice of that department really guiding and owning that experience. And so Vanessa, who came to us from Bianco by way of Houston, is just like, I am so grateful for her and her hospitality perspective. I feel like it's rare in LA to feel something from service and she just nailed it. Like I did not like, we just have the same language in which we talk about how we want to experience the dining experience and the way that she has like led service and that team is a testament to her.

24:45Aliza Abarbanel:We'll get to the food too.

24:46Jessica Koslow:I have many notes. So if you're waiting for the food talk, we'll get there, but let's continue with service though. My notes or this, like truly less is more. So you're not spieling. You're not asking even for dietaries, which I am fine.

25:02Aliza Abarbanel:Actually, that shouldn't have happened. We should have asked you what your dietary restrictions are. So that's a no for me to take back.

25:07Jessica Koslow:All right, well, maybe that's a no. There you go. But honestly, our server was delightful in that really just let the menu speak for itself. Let us order, maybe make some guidance. But so it's not like hands-off service, though. There's like we had four dishes plus two desserts. And I think plate swaps were at like five plate swaps.

25:25Aliza Abarbanel:Yeah.

25:26Jessica Koslow:Really, really rare. I feel like doing that, especially on like a busy street outside. And like that's great hospitality when plate swaps happen and you're not really thinking about it.

25:37Aliza Abarbanel:Not only plate swaps, but when you drop a dish, dropping it with serving utensils. I've gone to restaurants here in L.A. that are cool. and I get the plate to share with no serving utensils. And those are kinds of things that like in New York, in Paris, London, like, no, that wouldn't happen. You would get serving utensils, but I haven't seen it much here. And I just wanted to like rectify that with how we operate.

26:04Jessica Koslow:And so you've said in the past, the restaurant is where you wanna eat now. And I have to ask, like, how has your palate changed for dinner service since you launched Squirrel? And how is it that the restaurant you want to eat at now, the now part?

26:24Aliza Abarbanel:I don't know if change is the right word. I think it's evolved. You know, I think it's growing, continuing to educate myself, continuing to read, continuing to eat, continuing to learn with my palate. and it's just like an evolved palate now. Squirrel AM is different because of the style of service and the meal part, but it is in tune with what's happening at dinner per se. So in a way, it's not, the food is just like an evolved version of AM, truly. And it really is more in terms, I would say like the change is more about like the flip that happens at dinner because it is it is remarkable the 180 that you feel at dinner versus the counter service like more relaxed vibe during the a.m yeah um so that's where the change

27:20Jessica Koslow:it's really and that's what's special for for fan long-time fans of squirrel during the day it's like to see it flip a switch and feel like a truly proper restaurant yeah i think of it like it's a bistro it's like definitely france's inspiration to build the menu but it's also very california California Bistro. What does that mean to you, that term California Bistro?

27:43Aliza Abarbanel:That's a hard, I mean, it's a hard term, right? Like the Parisian aspect of it is the street nature, the like deep list that could be at Le Cervant or at Plank in London, you know? Oh, yeah. Like the cocktail menu that is just next level. Kayla is killing it on the bar side. And, you know, she's taking her references from her time at Kumiko or like Angel Share in New York, which I absolutely adore. So how – I would say the L.A. part of it, there is something about the Chateau, the Chateau Marmont and eating outside in that courtyard that is a little like, oh, this is L.A., right? And you're kind of taking that to the street of Virgil and that is kind of transitioning that feel.

28:32Aliza Abarbanel:The martini service, if you get a true martini service, is in line with what happens at Musso. So there are these nods to L.A. Like Figaro is like a very big French bistro on Vermont in Los Feliz. And that is like the quintessential kind of like pickup of like a French bistro. And now we've kind of taken that vibe, but made it chef driven, made it ingredient driven. but kind of kept these like muso chateau tones that kind of make it like a hot night. That makes sense.

29:08Jessica Koslow:So it was, I mean, I was on a Monday night. So it was like a little bit like getting into the week, you know, the like catch up with friends. And I love the, there's the Virgil on the street, you know, two tops. And then you've got your little nook there, which of course you can have a little bit more intimate experience. And so it was like more like catch up with friends about the weekend. But then of course, if you're like Friday night, it's like, let's make it hot. Yeah. I love how you say that. I mean, definitely student of the game here, referencing Musso and all these other places. I want to ask you about the term soft opening because it's like plastered across the menu.

29:38Jessica Koslow:It's like we use it as jargon in the industry, but it's typically not public facing, but you're keeping it there. Why did you decide soft opening? And what does that mean? And do you change a little bit going into proper opening? I mean, it's like previews for Broadway in a way.

29:54Aliza Abarbanel:Yeah, I mean, look, there's a restaurant that just opened in LA called Herman's And they had it on their menu.

30:00Jessica Koslow:Oh, cool.

30:01Aliza Abarbanel:And I think I definitely pulled it from that.

30:05Jessica Koslow:Yeah.

30:05Aliza Abarbanel:Where they were saying, hey, can you bear with us? We're just getting our sea legs under us. We're learning new skills. We're not going to be perfect tonight or we may not be. And we just want to give you like we're doing our best to be 100 right now. But just bear with us for a minute. And that's kind of what that is. I made 200 menus that say soft open on it. And then when it's done, hard launch.

30:31Jessica Koslow:I literally stole one. Good. I apologize. So you have 199. Sorry, I didn't realize this is a limited run. Maybe it's an actual collector's item. I'm like, I'll go Ruth Roichel on that. Ruth, like prolific restaurant menu collector. I'm keeping that. It's going in the folder.

30:45Aliza Abarbanel:Yeah, you might want to sell it to her.

30:47Jessica Koslow:Oh, I mean, I think Ruth needs to actually have her own soft opening experience at Squirrel.

30:51Aliza Abarbanel:I hope so.

30:51Jessica Koslow:There's zero doubt Ruth will be showing up within six months.

30:54Aliza Abarbanel:Yeah, Nancy was saying that too. She was like, I'll come back. I'm going to bring Ruth. She's going to love it.

30:59Jessica Koslow:Oh, that's good. I mean, I think we will have thoughts. I mean, I can't predict what Ruth Reichel thinks about restaurants, you know.

31:05Aliza Abarbanel:But the soft open is, you know, it's like we're open. We ripped off the Band-Aid. We're seven days a week, which is rare, right?

31:15Jessica Koslow:So smart.

31:17Aliza Abarbanel:It's seven days a week without fail. And what that has meant is, okay, gosh, like we need more staff. We hired 1.2 % of our applicants for dinner service. What does that mean? It means that, first of all, hospitality is kind of what we're hearing, which is shocking, that it is somewhat of a safe place to work, even though restaurants here in LA are closing at crazy rates. there are a lot of candidates, but the candidates that actually can be the right fit are hard also to come by here. So we're missing some key cooks in our experience that will also help us open the delivery aspect that's a totally different menu.

32:07Jessica Koslow:Wow.

32:08Aliza Abarbanel:You've really talked a lot about that. Yeah, which I think I'll get to with some other questions. Yeah, definitely. And like seven days a week is really something.

32:20Jessica Koslow:Plus daytime. Has the daytime menu changed at all? You know, the answer is no.

32:28Aliza Abarbanel:Well, let me rephrase that. Has the daytime menu changed at all? I would say the daytime menu is amazing. Amazing. Yeah. And I will be hard pressed for you to find a better breakfast and brunch spot in LA. No list needs to tell me that. Yeah. I know it. And we know it. I would love to see, I would love for you to come back and like experience it because the food has only gotten better and more dynamic. and the way that the breakfast and lunch menu has evolved is in addition not subtraction yeah so um a pancake that is in some ways reminiscent of the golden diner pancake in new york but it is actual starter from our sourdough bread and it takes two days to make so we can only make a certain amount every day that for example is one of the things on the menu that like i left to come here and i saw it on every child's plate like at the restaurant um so the food And in terms of technique, because I'd say just our food for breakfast and lunch is very technical.

33:41We have this ladka dish that, you know, there's a lot of handwork to it.

33:48Aliza Abarbanel:It's steamed in the combi. Then it's frozen, like framed, fried.

33:54Jessica Koslow:It's frozen and then you pick it up?

33:55Aliza Abarbanel:We pick it up from frozen. Yeah, yeah. And is that a quick pickup? It's a quick pickup, but the labor that goes in front of it is just big.

34:04Jessica Koslow:You build that universe for days and then you pick it up for minutes. And the plate of desserts at dinnertime, are those going to appear on the daytime menu at some point? No. Shaking your head. So that's smart. I think having that real line so you have people, there's obviously going to be a time when you go to Squirrel. Let's talk food for dinner menu. I'm going to quote Max Shapiro, great sub-stack, Mad Food, formerly Air Jordan podcast. And I really like what he's been writing about restaurants in LA. And he wrote about skimps, which is super clever. Quote, a dish that sounds like a typo. Pacific Coast squid stuffed with shrimp chorizo grilled over binchotan with a California saffron aioli and nislamal fennel.

34:45Jessica Koslow:I really enjoyed this dish. I like the complexity of it. that you are showing. I mean, obviously Spain is an inspiration, but you've got this idea of shrimp chorizo and squid married with this fennel. Jessica, what the fuck? Where did this idea come from? It's really cool. Yeah, you know, when we last talked,

35:06Aliza Abarbanel:the menu was different because it was a different season. So that was meant to be mackerel with fermented tomatillo. And then we started to see what fish was in season. It was Pacific squid. um chef guillermo had talked about um doing like a rice filling we had seen some of that kind of like popping up in other restaurants um at or a shrimp teresa that felt like a little on the nose and like really tribute to the pork trees yeah in la for me and and this is just me talking um in la there is a little bit of a no pork situation. A lot of people don't eat pork. And if they don't eat pork or they're pescatarian, like having that in fish is a no-no.

35:51Aliza Abarbanel:So I wanted to play around with the idea of like a shrimp or a fish chorizo. And actually we talked to Josh Nyland a little bit about his, because at first we're like, okay, let's stuff them. We'll make actual like chorizo. So he gave a couple tips and then Guillermo played around with some versions of it that ended up where we are now, which is really amazing. The aioli was saffron from Peace and Plenty, which is a Northern Californian saffron. Really, really velvety, great texture.

36:26Jessica Koslow:A lot of saffron aiolis in the world. This is the best. It's really terrific.

36:30Aliza Abarbanel:And the nixtamalized fennel and fresh fennel, like that adds. Yeah, right.

36:33Jessica Koslow:The dichotomy, the playoff. I forgot to mention that.

36:36Aliza Abarbanel:Like adds the crunch, but also adds the sweetness to kind of like, and the acid with the lemon, like the lime, it all counterbalances each other. It's a nice, it's a nice bite. And it's a fun bite, you know, to think about. And one other thing, and I'm just like, you were talking a little bit about how service was, was kind of like at your ready, but not overbearing. And part of the way that the menu is written is to give you a little bit more guidance, right? Like you read the menu when you described this dish. And a lot of times in more, I would say, like cool restaurants with like a menu, all you get are the ingredients.

37:12Aliza Abarbanel:Yeah. And then you as the diner are meant to kind of discern what that build looks like.

37:17Jessica Koslow:I never see any upside to that, frankly. I feel the austerity of menu writing is puzzling. Puzzling to me.

37:24Aliza Abarbanel:You're a writer. Yeah. And honestly, me too.

37:27Jessica Koslow:You are a writer too. Yeah. Me too.

37:29Aliza Abarbanel:And I think I've had enough experiences at restaurants where like I ordered a dish. I was like, okay, I know what this is going to be. The server doesn't give insight into what that dish is going to actually be. And then it shows up and it's totally different, which is cool too. I like to be surprised. However, I think the guidance adds, you know, adds a little bit of support.

37:48Jessica Koslow:There's also just so many fun Easter eggs within the restaurant, within the written material of the restaurant. We'll talk about that. But did you read that spiel piece in your magazine and have that in your mind when you're thinking about service at your restaurant?

38:00Aliza Abarbanel:Yes. and well also, well, are you talking about like the do's and don'ts in the New York Times like end of year?

38:06Jessica Koslow:No, it was.

38:07Aliza Abarbanel:Because that was one of them too.

38:08Jessica Koslow:I'm sure that was on a don't, but also a great piece in New York Magazine about like the spiel is getting out of control.

38:16Aliza Abarbanel:No, I didn't read that.

38:16Jessica Koslow:Oh, interesting. Yeah, we talked about on the show with a couple people and Alan from New York Magazine. Yeah, it was basically like, stop, stop.

38:24Aliza Abarbanel:Yeah.

38:24Jessica Koslow:Like just let us be diners and honestly answer just answer questions.

38:27Aliza Abarbanel:Yeah, yeah. I love that.

38:29Jessica Koslow:Yeah, and you really executed that well. Okay, the distant memory of borscht for this smoked beet egg n 'lodi. You're going Massimo Batara a little bit with this distant memory. But clearly this dish is very, very thoughtful. I love smoked beets when it really does mimic a smoked, like a barbecue. Yeah. It feels like there's real like, you've done this work there. Yeah, exactly. But also just like beautiful pasta, like great handwork there.

38:57Aliza Abarbanel:You should, there's some like stories where it shows them like building the pasta it's like such a labor intensive process to get those beat um like you know spaces in the actual pot anyway it it's it's a lot of labor we run out of it every night soft opening unable to keep it um from running out which is like our frustration

39:21Jessica Koslow:right now but we'll get there yeah um i i just think that seeing your pasta uh evolve i mean It could be just that, just seeing your testing and reading about the buildup on the sub stack.

39:33Aliza Abarbanel:I agree. I think there's room to make more versions. And, of course, with the season, that will, you know, exit out and something else will come in. Yeah.

39:44Jessica Koslow:This pork collar was really delicious, perfectly cooked. But it's not just a pork collar. There's tortillas on the side, which I think, you know, you're seeing that at restaurants all over the country, which is smart. Make your own tortillas. do nixomalization in-house uh sikopak is there what how does how does this idea evolve for you

40:04Aliza Abarbanel:you know that is and what you're seeing is like some things are like us in collaboration some are mine some are sandra's some are guillermo's and this is like guillermo came to guillermo's our exec sue and he came to the table like with this idea he did want to use secreto um he's he's from You know, he's from Texas, makes his own tortillas. Like Sikupak was already something. He had this in mind. This set was in mind. We just ended up with a different protein to match the proteins that we can get here now. But it was a vision that he executed.

40:43Jessica Koslow:Well, I didn't get to try the chicken. It was 86th. Yeah. Fair. It's soft opening. Let's talk about it. It's just in reading early reviews and online, it seems to be the real breakout dish so far.

40:56Aliza Abarbanel:Yeah, yeah. Thanks for reviving chicken, someone wrote. Which is, you know, like you also see these notes saying, chicken on every menu at X price, like so annoying or whatever. So if you're going to put it on the menu, it has to be great. It's a little bit different in the AM. This chicken is marinated in koji. It's a chicken thigh, just cut, diced for putting on the plancha and putting on your dish. And this will also end up in dishes for PM delivery. But this chicken for dinner is a quarter. And it is marinated in koji. It's in a – it's just that itself brings so much umami to the table. And then –

41:44Jessica Koslow:Um, it's not high knees chicken though. It's not, not close to that.

41:48Aliza Abarbanel:No, no, no. But it is skin on. Yeah. Um, the sauce that it's sitting in is full of anchovy. So it's just like incredibly umami, but the chicken is super tender from all of the koji. Um, and it's just sitting in Swiss chard braised, like fermented peppers and, uh, croutons from focaccia that we make in house. And it is, but the rub that we have is just so flavorful and it just makes that texture.

42:16Jessica Koslow:Yeah, I know Koji is really just such a gift.

42:20Aliza Abarbanel:It is such a gift. However, I think layered on top of it, this like anchovy like laden sauce, it's just like yum, yum, yum.

42:28Jessica Koslow:Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can't wait to try it. Yeah. So let's talk about Easter eggs. You know, like under the saucer, there's a little smiley. There's some quotes on the receipt, but there's probably more.

42:39Aliza Abarbanel:Oh, you saw the quote on the receipt.

42:40Jessica Koslow:I think you texted me about it. I didn't quite catch it. But tell me about building this universe. This world. And how you really just wanted it to be Squirrel and you wanted it to be highly personal and art directed, as you mentioned that word, director. and and i think the best operators understand hospitality but they also understand the design and having this like really strong point of view with these types of little little fun little

43:09Aliza Abarbanel:moments i mean there's so many easter eggs that um hopefully you'll come back and and kind of experience them more whether it's like on the check the check presenter itself under the cup those are the fun things for me right like I want someone to come in and be like there's a human and humans here making this feel making me feel something and yes that you know that that is the end of the day like what we're missing in restaurants like we're going out and we're having these experiences that feel like okay this feels like it checks off a box of like of four walls with a bar and stools and that, but like a place that feels like really human.

43:54Aliza Abarbanel:That is the goal for Squirrel is to just feel like there's real people in here who, who are like bringing tone and touches. And it's fun too.

44:03Jessica Koslow:It's fun to like, do you like have a little like fun and jokes and we don't want to spoil a good show, but like definitely look at your check.

44:08Aliza Abarbanel:I mean, look at your check. But like there's the paper on the table that are like, did you get the jottings?

44:15Jessica Koslow:Yeah, I did.

44:15Aliza Abarbanel:Which is like a Keens reference from New York, you know. And the cool thing about those jotting is I didn't know how people were going to use them. I thought maybe it was like a way to like, OK, you're on a first date and like maybe you're going to use it. Or you're on a date with someone you've been with for like 20 years and it's a way to like stop boredom, you know. Like there was just the joy of having something there. But they've been people have been leaving us notes.

44:40Jessica Koslow:That's what I thought it was just because it stopped opening and just leave a note. So, I mean, and jottings that, to be clear, is like a little like, you know, golf course pencil, perfectly sharpened, by the way. And like just like the most pleasurable thing is having a perfectly sharpened pencil.

44:51Aliza Abarbanel:There's also something on the pencil.

44:53Jessica Koslow:There's something on the pencil, which I didn't see. And then a piece of paper that present your table with a piece of paper.

44:59Aliza Abarbanel:Yeah.

44:59Jessica Koslow:You can do a lot of things with that paper.

45:00Aliza Abarbanel:And people have. They've left notes like, hey, things to improve on. Like, you know, why is the toilet paper roll on a broken handle? And I was like, oh, I didn't know that. Thank you.

45:08Jessica Koslow:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow, quite a specific note. But it's with love. I'm sure. No, it's love. Tell me the things that I can grow, how we can grow.

45:20Aliza Abarbanel:The things that resonate with me. Like, for example, I don't think you got the molten chocolate cake, but it comes out really hot. So now we have a little cozy around it. So people can get in there. And I needed that note. Yeah.

45:34Jessica Koslow:I mean, the pastry side we didn't talk about, but beautiful yuzu. Using yuzuko, right?

45:40Aliza Abarbanel:Yeah, we're using yuzuko. I love those guys.

45:42Jessica Koslow:just love Yuzuko. And it's so nice to see their product being envisioned with you. But like backing up to the molten chocolate cake, it's like we didn't order it. We should have, but it's like that is, you're clearly taking this such a common, like basically a mug cake, essentially. I mean, restaurants, the secret is like you can microwave that on pickup and make like$15 on that cake, but you're clearly doing something a little different here.

46:11Aliza Abarbanel:Oh, let's talk about that cake. And I don't know if it's on the menu that you saw, but it does say a la 2005 Bacchanalia. Oh, I didn't see that. That would have been fun. My first pastry job was at Bacchanalia. And when I moved to Atlanta in 2005, I was a diner staring into the kitchen watching the teamwork. And I had this cake and it transformed me to want to work in the hospitality industry. And this cake made me write to Anne and ask for a job. And it's my life. Like I'm getting like teary talking about it. But like this dish is the reason why I am where I am. And so, you know, Anne, maybe on day three, I was walking down the stairs with a sheet tray of molten cakes that didn't get sold that night.

47:04Aliza Abarbanel:And I fell. And I dropped them all. So this. You good? You all right? No, I'm fine. But it gives me a lot of empathy for the team if like, you know, we lose pastries on that day because, you know, they fell off the tray or whatever. Like I just, this is human. This happens.

47:24Jessica Koslow:It was good that you did it and it was like shown to the staff like this can happen.

47:27Aliza Abarbanel:This can happen. Maybe not all the time, but.

47:30Jessica Koslow:Yeah. Yeah.

47:31Aliza Abarbanel:And actually, yes, I like this did happen recently with someone and my response was exactly that. Like, it's OK. Yeah. And they were like, wow. In my other job, like I wouldn't you know, this this would have been different.

47:46Jessica Koslow:This would have been a very different experience. Yeah.

47:48Aliza Abarbanel:But anyway, the molten cake is, I still have my recipe book. It is an iteration of it. It is in gratitude for everything that that chef and that restaurant and that pastry chef did for me in kind of pushing me towards this where I am now.

48:06Jessica Koslow:Do you talk with Anne now? Have you been in contact?

48:08Aliza Abarbanel:Yeah, she texted me to wish me good luck and congratulations. Think she'll make it out? I hope so. That would be really special.

48:15Jessica Koslow:Yeah. really cool that you that's where you came from in our last episode i'm linking to it again we we go over your your history at that just really special restaurant in atlanta when you want your

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49:44Jessica Koslow:Go to your happy price. Priceline. Actually, before I forget, the jellies. I know like you go to a fancy tasting menu, you get these cool jellies. There's like a French name for it. I'm forgetting.

49:54Aliza Abarbanel:I mean, it's a pate de fruit.

49:56Jessica Koslow:Beautiful. Like, why do that?

49:59Aliza Abarbanel:Well, this goes back to wanting to feel something and feel taken care of. And I think, like how does a restaurant show gratitude for you coming in when, you know, I think the New York Times just had a thing about four out of five meals last year in the United States were delivery, right? So how do we show gratitude for like taking the time to come and dine in? I think restaurants have to find a way to give back, you know, and whether it's like the free bread service or, and which it can be very challenging. So what is that for us? We make membrio that is quince from frog hollow and I saved it all.

50:40Aliza Abarbanel:And now we turn that into like little pate de fruits that are given at the end. You also get those toothpicks that are -

50:45Jessica Koslow:Beautiful, I love those.

50:46Aliza Abarbanel:Like for the table, just in gratitude. But yeah, it's a nice little way to end the meals to be like, oh, don't forget that our world is about preservation and the art of preservation and the art of preserving fruit. And -

51:00Jessica Koslow:I love it. It makes perfect sense and it is a nice little gift. Well, great segue about delivery. Because I think for a lot of restaurants to survive, there has to be that extra channel. And your food, I mean, the dinner menu, I don't know how it travels.

51:21Aliza Abarbanel:It's not for delivery.

51:22Jessica Koslow:So that's not the delivery menu. So what do you, amazingly, while you're running this new restaurant seven days, you're thinking about expanding to delivery. Give us some like ideas there with the delivery at Squirrel at Night.

51:36Aliza Abarbanel:The food at dinner is meant to be dine in, enjoy, take your time, enjoy the night sky. This is not food meant to be in a delivery platform. We have already designed the menu. It's already sitting in Uber Eats, like in the menu log with all the photos. and it's just about having the team trained and setting it live. But it's more of like –

52:03Jessica Koslow:Give us some menu items. A couple. You don't have to get the whole show. No.

52:08Aliza Abarbanel:Look, in London at Harrods, there's something called a Harrods box, and it's like a DIY, choose your own adventure, chicken. You choose your protein. You choose your veggie. You choose your grain. You choose your sauce. It's 15 pounds. You're out the door kind of thing. So that is what it is. It's basically like build a box. And then like it's either build a box, build a bowl, build a wrap, done. You have some salads. But, you know, it's the kind of thing that you want in your house as in some ways fuel at night that is craveable. And it is a different menu from AM. It is. Yeah. And the ingredients don't totally cross over.

52:52Aliza Abarbanel:but you know that's what I can say it's more of a like Harry's box

52:56Jessica Koslow:you've said you've really said a lot and it's exciting because I wasn't actually thinking that that direction thinking more of the daytime menu with the more an evening kind of lean so this is the billion dollar idea for you I mean just the idea of you can execute delivery and have it be really self-contained and obviously LA is a delivery town in many ways because of just like picking things up on the way home from seems to be a big part of LA.

53:28Aliza Abarbanel:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it is. And our AM restaurant has become, I think I said this, it was like 30 % to go. Yeah. And sometimes like even higher. And that is just Angelina's not wanting to drive around. Yep. And we're not a walking town. No. So knowing that, I do believe that the delivery arm is the mandatory part of PM service to allow for this PM service to feel like it is feeling, which is you're not really rushed to flip your table. Like other restaurants are flipping at 115. We're flipping at 140, 130 to 145. Yeah. It's because people want to stay. Yeah. And in order to allow for that kind of like breath, we need this other arm to kind of balance it out.

54:24Aliza Abarbanel:So it's what I'm working on.

54:26Jessica Koslow:And we're talking financials. I mean, how are the numbers looking early on?

54:29Aliza Abarbanel:I mean, they're looking good. Also, I'm so used to dinner. I'm sorry. I'm used to AM service where you're just like people are coming in all the time. It's an eight-hour service. This is a four-hour service. So and we're a small space. So I just, my expectations, I didn't know what I was going to see. And I think that there's obviously like room to play around with like, we're not really a walk-in area. So it's hard. The walk-in is surprisingly different for us. But I am impressed with the number of people coming in, what is coming in. but I also know that we can, now that we've figured it out, we can do more.

55:17Yeah.

55:18Jessica Koslow:Super exciting. And reservations are unresy. So if you're coming to LA, you got to get that reservation because as more and more folks discover the specialness of this restaurant and why this is definitely one of my favorite openings in LA in some time, you got to book ahead.

55:37Aliza Abarbanel:You do.

55:38Jessica Koslow:Got to book ahead. Yeah. I love it.

55:40Aliza Abarbanel:Or just DM us. See if you can figure it out.

55:43Jessica Koslow:Listen, Taste, this is Taste listeners. You've heard it here. Drop in the DMs. I think this is a wonderful invitation. Many chefs do not offer this opportunity. Drop in the DMs if you need to get a reservation at New Squirrel.

55:57Aliza Abarbanel:That's why we know you're excited. And that's a positive way to drop in to DMs.

56:01Jessica Koslow:That's a really wonderful tip. I think operators should recognize that more. If someone's really dropping in DMs and trying to get a reservation, it's they want to dine at your restaurant.

56:10Aliza Abarbanel:Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And we want you.

56:12Jessica Koslow:Yeah. And you want to make it work. So, well, I can't wait to keep following this. I hope you can come back in like six months, maybe a year and like tell us about how how delivery is going and everything. Yeah.

56:22Aliza Abarbanel:Yeah. Me too.

56:23Jessica Koslow:Jessica Kostel, thank you so much for joining This Is Taste.

56:25Aliza Abarbanel:Thank you for having me again.

56:31Jessica Koslow:This Is Taste is hosted and produced by Eliza Barbanal and me, Matt Rodbar. The show is edited by lead producer Clayton Gumbert and supervised by Pat Stango, director of media production and development at Penguin Random House. Thanks to Shalia Harris and the production team at Penguin Random House. Theme music by Steve Rydell. Episode portraits by Louise Zergon Pomeroy. Logo design by Ellie Skirzat and Ian Dingham. Visit Taste Online at tastecooking.com And make sure to subscribe to our newsletter to keep updated on all cool things in the world of taste.