752: Asha Loupy Is Here to Save Your Spice Drawer

27:29And, you know, we were driving up into the Himalayas and going to South India and then going all the way up to Kashmir. So it really was a lot of travel. But then in each region, we would be there for a few days, go to the farmer's house, meet with the women, be able to cook with them. And then we would also stay in that region for a few days before or a few days after so that I basically could eat as much food in that region as possible so that I would understand the flavor profiles of the region we were in. And that could inform all of the recipe development once we got back to the United States.

28:17That must have been such an incredible and ambitious eating experience to embark on. It was very ambitious and very delicious also. How did you kind of go through the process of preserving the recipe when you were in the kitchen with these women and watching them make these meals that, from my understanding, are kind of staple meals for that family using the spices that they're growing on their farm? Being in the kitchen with the women, you know, a lot of the time it was chaos because we also had our photographer with us. So we were trying to take photographs. And then I think a lot of people can understand like when you're cooking and not really measuring.

29:01And that is the way that these women cook. And so trying to get measurements was very difficult. Most of the time I would just say, like, hold out your hand. And I would guesstimate. And I had a little tiny pink notebook that traveled with me everywhere. And I think Sana was really afraid I was going to lose that notebook. It was on my person at all times. You slept with it under your pillow? It was in my bag. It was on my person. And, you know, I would, on our break days, put it into a document that was in a cloud that would not get lost. but it was really amazing to learn from the women like you know it was chaotic but they were really patient and I didn't speak the language of most of the people we were going to visit and you know there were places where Sana didn't even speak the language and so we had translators so there was that added layer of trying to figure out what was happening so it was just a lot of watching and taking notes and just asking them to slow down and then tasting and writing down every single thing that I could taste in the finished dish.

30:14Did you know what they were going to be preparing ahead of time? We did. So we were lucky enough to have a researcher who Sana hired named Shubra. She is actually the wife of our garlic farmer and she's just amazing. She works on films and And she is just a historian and loves everything having to do with food and regional food. And so she would call the farmers ahead of time and also prepare these reports of the region and the things that that particular family was cooking. And so we would read through those before going to the region and know what we were cooking. But also towards the middle to end, there would be times where we would get a list of things that that farmer cooked.

31:03And I had a list of like all the vegetables you could buy in the United States. And so I would say, you know, I think this farmer would be a great farmer to learn an okra dish from or a cabbage dish from because this feels in their wheelhouse to teach us. So I think as we continued to travel, there was a little more specificity in what we were asking to learn. Totally. I feel like a lot of times throughout the cookbook development process, there's certain categories of, you know, meals of the day that you're trying to hit or like soups and stews versus salads. Like the way that people normally come up with a cookbook is probably very different than having this huge wealth of recipes that are being presented to you and then try to puzzle piece like a complete kind of book out of that.

31:50Definitely. And I think that there were some recipes that came from, you know, we would be with a family for a couple days. And so on the second or third day, we would all just be a little bit more comfortable with each other. and so then they would show us something like when we were in Kashmir, the saffron farmer's wife, Alia, you know, kind of timidly took out this pot of yogurt chutney that was made with squash and walnuts and we tasted it and we were like, this is delicious. But it wasn't, you know, on any of our reports that we got. It was just something that she made and it ended up being one of, I think, Sana and I's favorite recipes in the book.

32:28We actually turned it into a dip and it's this roasted squash and lebna dip. And so, you know, there were moments like that where we would taste something and know that it was going to end up in the cookbook. Yeah, I can imagine, like, there's the recipe that you present to these visiting spice cookbook people because you think that's, like, what they're looking for. And then there are recipes that you just kind of make and eat every day. And maybe some things in that latter category that aren't thought of as being as flashy or as like notable or actually the most delicious or useful or interesting ones.

33:03Definitely. And I think because we were guests, there were so much of the time that, you know, they wanted to serve us like really celebratory food. And we would have to say like, no, no, no. Like, what would you be cooking for dinner tonight? That's what we want to learn. Totally. Are there any, I love this like saffron farmer example. Are there any other examples of homes you visited, farms you visited, where the recipe was, you know, surprising or special to you? I think, you know, the thing that stuck out to me was one of the first farms we visited was the Coriander and Fennel Farm. And they were all so excited that we were there.

33:43And, you know, people had come from out of town knowing that we were coming. And they grow everything on their farm. And when we got there, they pulled out, you know, this huge pot onto their patio, filled it with oil and they were like we're having a pakora party and so they were frying all of these fritters and basically like sent the kids out into the field to be like pick whatever you want and then they just battered and fried it and it was you know everyone was pitching in and it was one of those moments where i thought i don't think many people get to really experience this and I will remember this.

34:21Yeah, it sounds really fun. I wish I had the patio space to have a Bakora party in New York. Me too. Or the farm, I guess, to pick everything from. Yes, that too. The farm and the patio. The other meals that you would be eating when you were in those regions, did you have specific, were you looking for like similar flavors or dishes to what you'd previously had at the house? Or did you have any kind of guidance or were you just kind of quantity tasting? I think a little of both. When I could taste different versions of the dishes, that was very helpful. So, you know, there is this dal that is in Andhra Pradesh called Gangura Papu.

35:02and it is a really spicy, sour dal with lentils and it's flavored with amjur, which is a green mango powder that gives it a lot of bright acidity, but then it also has a bunch of sorrel in it, which also gives it that kind of herby tanginess. And so I tasted, I think, three different versions of that, like one on the farm And then we would go to restaurants in the city. So there were times like that where I would try and taste different versions of it just so that I could feel like I have a little bit more foundation in different spice combinations. And so I think there was a lot of there was just a lot of eating.

35:51Yeah. It must have been really special for you as someone who's been developing recipes with these spices for so long and just even cooking with them at home to be able to try them. You know, we talked so much about terroir, like in the place that they were grown with the local produce that it was like most commonly being paired with at home. It was really special. I think for the pepper, that felt like a special moment for me because, you know, pepper is something that I certainly have been using my whole life and that a lot of people don't really give a second thought to. And what the pepper farmers, you know, I didn't even think about how pepper was grown and that it is a fruit, that it is a berry.

36:31Meaning like black peppercorn, right? Black peppercorn. Yeah. And so, you know, going out and seeing these vines of really juicy, almost blueberry looking fruit that eventually is going to become peppercorns. And then at the same time as the pepper harvest, there's also a bunch of coffee flowers that are blooming. And that kind of smells like honeysuckle and jasmine and orange blossom all mixed together. So it was also the most fragrant farm. And there were many moments like that where it just felt almost unreal to be where a spice was growing that I cook with at home. And the peppercorn that Diaspora Coast sells is like the best peppercorn I've ever had, to be fair.

37:21It is so fruity and floral and it has so much more nuance than the like kind of dusty pre-ground black pepper that some people, you know, cook with at home. It really does. And I think that is because of how long that peppercorn is ripened on the plant. A lot of times, you know, peppercorns are harvested when they're green and then they're dried and they turn black and they don't have as much of that kind of layered fruity flavor as if you are to leave something on the vine to ripen. That makes a lot of sense. You mentioned earlier adopting this squash into like a squash labneh dip recipe. How much kind of transformation or adaptation of these recipes did you do when you came back to the States?

38:08I think there is a lot of recipes where pretty much was a direct translation of what we learned there. And then there are some recipes where we took a little bit more of our kind of California creative license. and there is some things that we adapted like particularly for the squash dip. None of the farms we went to had ovens. They don't really have ovens in a lot of the South Asian kitchens that I visited even not on the farm. And so when we learned about that dip on the farm, it was that the squash had been pressure cooked and then hung overnight to get all the excess liquid out of it. And then, of course, you know, I come back to the United States and I'm just going to roast the squash.

38:58I'm not going to ask someone to pressure cook it and then hang it in cheesecloth. So there are some things like that in the cookbook where, you know, I utilized things that we have in the American kitchen versus what was in the South Asian kitchen. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I'm curious, looking back at all of the recipes, if there was a recipe that stands out to you as being like the most difficult one to perfect. I think the dosa recipe is the one that scared me the most. I am not someone who, you know, is a like sourdough bread baker fermentation expert. And so I think the fermentation and also the fact that there are so many dosa recipes out there and how am I supposed to make one that, you know, can equal someone else's.

39:46and that one I didn't start until I think three days before our manuscript was due and I just needed Zana to cheerlead me through it and tell me I could do it which she did and I did it and I got it right and it felt great but it was a lot of research beforehand because on the farm when we were learning the dosa recipe, it was like a lot of people talking at once and saying like, no, this is the right way to do it. This is the right way to do it. So I had several different recipes written down and I kind of had to do my own research to figure out what my percentages of ratio to lentils to rice.

40:35And so that was the one that really scared me. What was the kind of perfect dosa that you were pursuing? I was pursuing something that was lacy and really crisp. And I think a lot of people, and we also have an idli recipe in the book, which is another South Indian breakfast item. But it's a similar batter and it's steamed and really fluffy. And a lot of people think that the two batters are interchangeable. But like to get that fluffiness, you need a different ratio of rice to lentils than the dosa. And so I tried doing a batter that would work for both and then ended up deciding like, no, we're going to do two separate batters because even the lentils that were used in it were different.

41:23Yeah. And so there were things like that where it was a lot of trial and error. That makes sense. I feel like you might as well have each one be the fullest expression of itself as opposed to sacrificing a little bit for the convenience of one dough. Yes. And I think my shining moment was when we were doing a studio shoot and someone was there from our India team. And they were saying, like, this is one of the best idlis I've tasted. And it stayed soft for hours. And, you know, I felt good about that one. Yeah, that must have felt really special. Definitely. So you mentioned your studio shoot.

42:03What was the kind of photo shoot element for this book? It seemed like it must have been pretty elaborate. it. It was. We had our photographer, Malati, who was also Oakland-based, traveling with us on our whole farm trip. So we did get dishes and photographs of all of the dishes on the farms. But because a lot of the ingredients did change, the end result of how they look changed. So like Like with the country chicken curry, all of the country chicken curries we were taught there, the chicken is butchered in a totally different way than the chicken is butchered here. Like they have a curry cut for the butcher.

42:50And that is just not something that is readily available in the United States. So the picture that we took of country chicken curry there just didn't look the same as what I had developed. So we do have a lot of photos of dishes that we took there that are in the book and all of the beautiful photos of the families. And then we did a secondary studio shoot in the United States and really tried to mimic the vibes of and the design of the photos that we already had. So I think it is a testament to our photographer and to our food stylist that even when I opened the book, there are some that I think, did we shoot that on the farm or did we shoot that in studio?

43:42And that was a fun challenge. Yeah, I mean, it seems like really rewarding to get to work on a nuanced project like this where you are kind of tracing the whole growth of a recipe in different ways. And you have these different photos from different parts of it, but ultimately it feels like the same dish. Yes. And I think we also shipped a ton of props from India. The whole trip, we knew we were going to have a studio shoot in the United States. And so in every region, we would go prop shopping, which was another fun thing. Yeah, that must have been so fun to be like having an excuse to buy all of the beautiful things.

44:21Yes, 100%. Did you get to keep any of the props? I did get to keep some of the props. And I do have a few Kashmiri things that are very special and hang out in my kitchen. What's your favorite prop that you rescued from the shoot and brought home? Probably a Kashmiri spoon that's, you know, a serving spoon and it's beautiful. It's silver and very ornate. I think I would probably also want to rate all of the silverware. I, you know, I'm sure that my friend who I live with would like me to stop buying things and taking things when it comes to props. But, you know, we have a lot of bookcases full of different ceramics and I love to add to that collection.

45:09I think that's pretty fair. Yeah. I'm curious after working on this book, if you found that your own home cooking has been impacted or changed at all. It definitely has. I, you know, I do think this doing this book has made me a better cook. There were a lot of things that I learned from the women, you know, even as simple as when, you know, after you saute your alliums and onions and garlic or whatever, and you're adding the ground spices to bloom them. and sometimes like the oil is too hot. And I think there's so many recipes where you're trying not to burn the spices. And so they would add the ground spices and just a splash of water.

45:53And I had never thought about doing that. You're still frying and blooming the spices. It just slows down the process. And I have started doing that in any time I'm adding ground spices to anything I've sauteed. And it just makes it so that I'm not scrambling to not burn anything. And it was such a simple thing. But even those moments have made me a better cook from learning from these women. Totally. I've never thought about that before. So the splash of water is kind of like bringing down the temperature of the pan just a little bit. Yeah. And then the water evaporates. And so it's still able to fry and to bloom, but just in a more gentle way.

46:43Oh, I love that. Less rushing happening. Yes. Less frantic rushing. And I think there is that moment of like people who are new with using spices. It takes away a little bit of that intimidation of maybe potentially ruining a dish because the heat was too high. and anything like that is, you know, good in my book. Totally. And speaking of books, you have another book that you've been working on, which is your kind of solo cookbook dinner season, which is coming out in 2027. What can you say about that book? How is that different than this one? Writing a book on my own is a vastly different experience.

47:25I think for, you know, the Diaspora cookbook and other cookbooks. And just in my time of writing recipes, a lot of the recipes I've written are other people's stories. And so writing a cookbook that is much more focused on me and my story is very different. And just answering the question of what's for dinner, which is an eternal question, and using vegetables and a well-traveled pantry. So I think that my journey with diaspora and learning about spices in a really deep way has certainly informed my cooking and will find its way into this book as well. So it's been fun. And also, it is really different writing by yourself versus having a co-author.

48:18You know, I developed all of the recipes for the Diaspora Spice Cookbook, but I had Senna there to taste things and to talk through things. And, you know, most of the time it was like, this needs more lemon juice. I think we had a joke that the tagline for this book should have been more acid, please, because that was always the thing we wanted more of. But writing your own book by yourself and not having that person that you can just ring up and say, hey, like, I need to work through this. You know, I'm lucky to have food friends to do that, but it is a very different writing and developing experience.

48:59Yeah, I don't know if it's the same with cookbooks, but I found that in my own writing, it's always so much easier for me to write a story that's rooted in like other interviews and reporting where I feel like I'm telling someone else's story as opposed to when I sit down to write something more personal, I find myself second guessing. Oh, who am I? Like, what do I want? 100%. I think the question, who am I, has gone through my brain a lot in the last few months because my manuscript is due at the end of April. So I am on book tour, but also in the midst of writing my manuscript. That's crazy.

49:36How do you feel about it? Are you almost done? I am almost done. I just had my studio shoot for the first part of my book and then did laundry and hopped on a plane to New York for the book tour. But it is in kind of the final stages of writing. And then we'll go into all of the other fun publishing, design and everything. Yeah, it must be useful to have gone through the whole experience and now be on the promotion leg of one book. Maybe it gives you a little bit of insight into what's going to be coming up again. 100 % I think that having gone through the process with the diaspora cookbook I know a little bit more of what to expect you know how many rounds you know you're doing before you even get to copy editing and also how many rounds of design there are so it's been a journey with the diaspora cookbook and now I feel like a lot more well versed in the diaspora cookbook.

50:42the whole publishing world. Totally. Well, I can't wait to read your own book when it's out and have you back on the show to talk about it. It would be fun. I'll be here. You'll be back eating your French toast bagels. 100 percent. I will be here with my French toast bagel and probably stashing one in my bag for the plane ride home, too. Yeah, the person next to you is going to be like, what smells like breakfast? I know. I mean, it's better than having someone with a tuna fish sandwich next to you. Asha, I was on a flight where somebody produced and ate six hard-boiled eggs over the course of the flight.

51:18And every time I thought it was going to be the last one. It was so crazy. Six is a lot. I also, I famously, I don't famously, but I don't like eggs. Like, I will not eat them. So I kept on texting my mom and being like, she's produced another egg from somewhere. Yeah, I think a French toast bagel, much better than six hard-boiled eggs. Totally. This episode is brought to you by Masterclass. Here's my honest take. Most learn-something-new content on the internet is kind of bad. Algorithmic, shallow, optimized for watch time. Masterclass is the opposite of all that. I've been spending a lot of time with Gordon Ramsay's class on cooking.

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55:21Perfect. Okay, your favorite cookbook right now. My favorite cookbook, Lesud from Rebecca Pepler. I love that book. Three things that are always in your fridge. Preserved lemons, eggs, and yuzu kosho. Your three favorite spices right now? Coriander, fennel, and black pepper. A spice that you think more people should be using at home? Mace. In what context? So in the context of fruit, I feel like a little bit of mace added to anything that you are adding fruit to will make that fruit taste like the best version of itself. Oh, that is like the best pitch I've ever heard. I don't have any mace at home.

56:09I'll have to go get some. Wonderful. Your favorite ice cream flavor? Anything with maple. Your favorite grocery store? Berkeley Bowl. Great grocery store. It is. What you think is an underrated kitchen utensil? A bench scraper. Your favorite Oakland restaurant? Cafe Romanant for their Shiro veggie combo. Ooh. Okay, final question. a fictional food scene like from a book or a movie or something made up that you wish you could magically eat in real life? I think about this food scene a lot. It's the one in Mrs. Doubtfire where, you know, the dinner has not gone as planned and Mrs. Doubtfire orders takeout to like plate and pretend, you know, that that is the dinner that was cooked.

56:58And I still haven't been able to like truly figure out what sauce is being spooned onto the plate with like pasta and some shrimp and baby carrots, I think it is. And that lives in my memory of like, I just want to be able to know what that is and taste it. It's not even that you think you're going to enjoy it, but that you need to solve the mystery. Yes. And there's like a certain sound that the spooning of the sauce makes on the plate that just like itches my brain in a way that nothing else does. Okay, I can't wait to revisit this movie and try to figure out what the sauce is. I'll let you know if I have any leads.

57:32I love it. We can solve this mystery together. Absolutely. Asha, this has been so much fun. Thank you for coming on the show. Thank you for having me.

57:44This is Taste is hosted and produced by Matt Rodbard and me, Eliza Abarbanel. The show is edited by lead producer Clayton Gumbert and supervised by Pat Stango, director of media production and development at Penguin Random House. Thanks to Shalia Harris and the production team at Penguin Random House. Theme music by Steve Rydell. Episode portraits by Louise Zergang Pomeroy. Logo design by Ellie Skrzat and Ian Dingham. Visit Taste online at tastecooking.com and make sure to subscribe to our newsletter to keep updated on all cool things in the world of taste. There's a world where legends race across city skylines.

58:27Romance blossoms in glittering ballrooms and there's magic around every corner. It's a world known to many as Great Britain. You've seen the action on screen. Now visit the real star of the show. Visit Great Britain to To discover more, go to tripadvisor.com slash Great Britain.