In short
Erica Roby’s path from criminal defense attorney to competition barbecue winner, her brisket and flavor philosophy, and practical home brisket guidance; plus Tucker Brown’s sixth-generation ranching perspective on cattle welfare, beef demand, and beef cuts.
Guest backgrounds
Erica Roby is a Food Network competitor and winner of Barbecue Brawl Season 2, known as “Master of Q,” with wine credentials (sommelier level 2). She formerly practiced criminal defense law. Tucker Brown is a sixth-generation Texas cattle rancher; his family has ranching records dating to 1895 and he works with registered cattle and genetics.
Key claims
Winning requires intense, one-bite flavor and palate-refreshing acid/salt; brisket is “set it and forget it” if temperatures are right; brisket difficulty is exaggerated by TV/social media. Beef demand stays high because breeding and science improved tenderness/marbling.
Notable examples
Erica’s first competition in Hazard, Kentucky (alone, 44 teams, finished last) and her mentor Bill trimming guidance; her Memphis in May brisket tie for first; top sirloin as a “slept on” beginner cut; Zinfandel pairing detail. Tucker describes calving-season routines (heifers checked every four hours) and ranching tech (AI, embryo transfer, ultrasound).
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOIntroducing Erica Roby and Tucker Brown
0:45 to 1:20
Meet Erica Roby, master of barbecue, and Tucker Brown, cattle rancher, revealing insights into beef cuts and pitmaster training.
“patience required to master brisket, the beef cuts every home cook should know, and how she's building a new generation of pitmasters from the ground up.”
Erica's Journey from Law to Barbecue
1:30 to 2:56
Erica shares her transition from being a lawyer to becoming a competitive pitmaster and how it changed her life.
“You know, you've been on Food Network, on Barbecue Brawl.”
The Analytical Approach to Barbecue
2:56 to 6:40
Exploration of how Erica's legal training influences her methodical approach to barbecue and competition.
“I've been around a time or two, around a few drum smokers on the competition circuit.”
First Competition Experience
6:40 to 9:24
Erica recounts her first barbecue competition, the challenges she faced, and the support she received from fellow competitors.
“always just been like my little superpower.”
From Last to Master of Q
9:24 to 13:20
Discussion on how mentorship and learning from others helped Erica improve and succeed in barbecue competitions.
“but I want to compete against you when you're at your best.”
Brisket Philosophy and Selection
13:20 to 14:03
Erica elaborates on her brisket selection process and the importance of quality in competition barbecue.
“So the first thing was we had to have the right marbling.”
The Importance of Quality Brisket
14:03 to 16:39
Learn how the quality and characteristics of brisket affect competition barbecue.
“when you're getting out there in competition because that's going to determine the quality.”
Connecting with Ranchers
16:40 to 18:42
Discover how competition barbecuers can connect with cattle ranchers.
“How do you connect as a competition barbecue winner with these with the ranchers, the folks who are who are raising the cattle?”
Barbecue at Home: Common Mistakes
18:43 to 19:10
Identify common mistakes people make when smoking brisket at home.
“So you get CattleCon and you're in Nashville.”
The Ease of Cooking Brisket
19:11 to 22:44
Understand why brisket is easier to cook than many believe and learn the set-it-and-forget-it method.
“You know, people are intimidated by beef at the smoker.”
Show all 20 chapters
Championing Less Common Cuts
22:45 to 24:14
Explore the benefits of lesser-known beef cuts like top sirloin and why they deserve attention.
“I was like, shouldn't they have wanted to take it?”
Wine Pairing for Brisket
24:15 to 25:12
Learn about ideal wine pairings for brisket to enhance the dining experience.
“So you're a level two certified SOM and I have to ask like, are there specific wines that you'd like to pair with your, your brisket?”
Tucker's Ranching Heritage
25:25 to 28:00
Hear about Tucker's family's ranching history and his personal journey in the industry.
“Well, I want to ask you first, you know, tell me something that you've eaten that's been absolutely delicious in the past couple of days.”
Journey to Ranching: From Sports to Cattle
28:00 to 29:10
Learn about the guest's transition from aspiring sports therapist to rancher.
“And so I thought that I'd be able to get into some sports physical therapy.”
Animal Welfare in Ranching
29:10 to 31:15
Discover the day-to-day responsibilities and animal welfare practices on the ranch.
“And so morally, we're obligated to take care of these animals.”
Market Dynamics of the Beef Industry
31:15 to 33:12
Explore the high demand for beef and the economic factors affecting pricing.
“to work with them very well, that's when we can get inside or start working on fence.”
Challenges Facing Ranchers Today
33:12 to 35:38
Understand the challenges ranchers face with low cattle numbers and urbanization.
“And you know, will we see the, where the price point makes people pick a different protein?”
Safety and Sustainability in Beef Production
35:38 to 37:10
Hear about the importance of safety and sustainability in beef farming.
“But on the flip side, the demand remains high and high.”
Cooking Beef: Techniques and Tips
37:10 to 39:41
Learn the guest's favorite cooking methods and underrated beef cuts.
“And if we want to keep that ranch for a long time, sustainability has to be important.”
Storytelling in the Culinary World
39:41 to 41:45
Discuss the importance of storytelling in the beef industry and culinary arts.
“What do you wish more of these professionals considered when cooking beef for their guests?”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:07Erica Roby:If you are a first-timer, just go to the meat counter and ask them for top sirloin because that's going to be the one that has just the really tender, juicy, flavorful parts and it's not so lean. So it's very forgiving when you cook it and I mean you're just going to be, you're going to be amazed by how great that is.
0:26Drew Smith:This is Taste. I'm your host, Matt Rodbarg.
0:55Drew Smith:patience required to master brisket, the beef cuts every home cook should know, and how she's building a new generation of pitmasters from the ground up. Also on the show is Tucker Brown, a sixth-generation Texas cattle rancher. We find out what it actually takes to raise great beef and what he wants people to understand the next time they're standing at the butcher counter. I hope you enjoy this episode. This episode is presented by Beef. It's what's for dinner. on behalf of the Beef Checkoff.
1:29Drew Smith:Erica Roby, welcome to This Is Taste. How are you?
1:32Erica Roby:I'm good. How are you doing?
1:34Drew Smith:I am excited to talk about your work. You know, you've been on Food Network, on Barbecue Brawl. You're the winner of Season 2. And you've earned the title of Master of Q. What does that mean, that title?
1:49Erica Roby:It means everybody comes for you and tries to challenge you. I didn't know that.
1:56Drew Smith:So people are dropping into your DMs, like trying to really say like, you're not a master of Q, I am.
2:02Erica Roby:Oh, it's been, I mean, it's been going on for years. Like as soon as I won, then all of a sudden, like I was on this high. And then the next, you know, like I was getting just tons of DMs from like barbecue dudes and people. And they were like, well, have you cooked this? Can you cook this? How would you cook this? And I was like, all of a sudden, then I had like imposter syndrome. I was like, oh my gosh, you know. And then I remember I would do little things like I would, you know, cook a brisket and it'd be like, you did that wrong, blah, blah, blah. So I was just like, oh, this is the dark side of winning something and putting yourself out there.
2:38Erica Roby:But no, it's actually been amazing because it's just opened up so many doors because, you know, now it's like you are an expert, you know, you're an expert at what you do and how you did it. so people actually, you know, they want to know what you know or talk to you about what they know. And it's been a really cool journey.
2:57Drew Smith:I love your barbecue dude voice. By the way, you nailed it. You absolutely nailed it.
3:03Erica Roby:I've been around a time or two, around a few drum smokers on the competition circuit.
3:09Drew Smith:Oh, there you go. You got that. Well, I want to talk about your big professional change. You I know you pivoted from practicing law to competition barbecue. What an amazing shift. What inspired this?
3:22Erica Roby:I think it was just being absolutely miserable. Like, you know, I went my whole life being like, oh, I'm going to be a lawyer, studying for it, doing it, taking the bar, got out there practicing. You know, I love trials. I love that adrenaline. You know, I love knowing that there's, you know, real lives are at stake and, you know, you got to battle it out. It's like, it's being, it's like being a gladiator. So I loved that part of it. But then after a few years, it just, it got like, oh, so this is it, you know, like, is this, is this all, is this all there is? Are my better days behind me? And then it's, you know, for me, I was a criminal defense attorney.
4:00Erica Roby:And so when you walk into the courtroom, everybody's mad at you. So no, like even your own clients mad at you, the judge probably doesn't like you, you know, opposing counsel, definitely the state, they definitely don't like you. So you're just sitting there and you're like, well, who am I doing this for? Like, who am I, who am I trying to, you know, win for? And so it just felt really unrewarding for me and unfulfilling. And then I was so I was like, I was debating like what I was going to do, get into another area of law, like what do I want to do? And so I always realized like my outlet was cooking and I was actually happy doing that.
4:38Erica Roby:And I noticed that when I cook, like everybody's smiling and they're nice and they're happy and everybody's having a good time. And I was like, wait, I want more of that. I want to do that more. How do I do that and actually make it a career where I can support myself? So I think it was like around my 30th birthday, I was just like, you know what, I'm going to start taking a leap of faith. And I got into wine and I was like, okay, I can still wear my same little lawyer clothes. I don't have to have a new budget for clothing. And I can, you know, see what it's like to work in a restaurant and serving people and just like hospitality forward and see if that's something that I could do long-term.
5:18Erica Roby:And I just became absolutely obsessed with the culinary scene and I never looked back.
5:23Drew Smith:So cool that you have, you know, certificates in wine and you eventually became this master of Q. We're going to keep coming back to it. But like there's something clearly very analytical in the way you work. You know, you're a lawyer and you got your certificate and now you're doing barbecue. Do you feel like that that that law degree is being put to work as a as a professional chef?
5:49Erica Roby:It definitely is. So it was always, you know, as a lawyer, you got to analyze the playing field. You got to look at everything, lay it out, organize lists, you know, one plus one equals two. and you keep building from there. And that's the same with recipe and content creation. You got to layer it and you got to build sequentially every single step of what you're doing to have the final product. So it's actually very analytical and technical and logical for me because I see everything linear. And that's always been something that's really helped me, whether it's a barbecue competition or going out and doing things in front of people.
6:28Erica Roby:I'm always saying, okay, so here's where I'm starting. Here's my end goal. Now, what are the steps that I need to do to achieve that end goal? And I guess I've never wavered from that. And it's always just been like my little superpower.
6:42Drew Smith:Yeah, yeah. It makes a lot of sense the way you lay it out like that. Well, speaking of competition, let's talk about your first competition. You drove yourself in a rented truck to Hazard, Kentucky. You competed alone against 44 teams and finished dead last. What did you, what were you thinking the next morning after finishing last?
7:00Erica Roby:Well, first I was like, oh my gosh, I have to like empty out this truck that I've been sleeping in and living in for like the last two days. And I was like, that's not fun and clean all these barbecue grills by myself. So I was looking at the task at hand, but I was also like, I can't believe I did that. You really went down there because I had never been to a barbecue competition. So, you know, just like taking my happy little self down there by myself and then realizing that you're supposed to have a team or somebody else with you.
7:30Drew Smith:Wow. Yeah.
7:30Erica Roby:I don't know why. I don't know why I didn't like factor that in. I guess I wasn't being logical on that one. But I wanted to compete so bad. And it was during the time when it was really scarce. There was barely any in-person competitions. So to find one that was so close, I was like, I just have to go. I got to go. And, you know, I was like sleeping in the truck for a few minutes and cooking and trying to figure out cook times and then trying to like run my boxes by myself while cutting meat, while arranging them. I mean, the boxes were hideous. I have like pictures and I quickly deleted those.
8:07Erica Roby:But it was just like, I was like, I just want to see if I could do this. Like, could I be about this life? And before I dragged like somebody else in with me, I was like, let me see if this is even somewhere where I would be welcomed and that I would be excited to be at. And I mean, I pulled up and everybody was like, who are you? What are you doing? Why are you here? Where's your team? And then in the middle of the night, I was like trimming chicken. I had like a little Coleman lantern and I was trimming chicken by it. And this guy just like comes up to me and he's just like, hey, he's like, my name is Bill.
8:40Erica Roby:and I do competitions for a living. And would you mind if I sit with you and I'll run through how we do things here? And he's like, first, you need to trim your meat at home. You don't trim out here on the circuit. And I was like, oh, that was really good to know. That would have saved some hours. And this man just sat with me through the night helping me with everything. And he ended up ultimately becoming my mentor and we've competed together. But all of a sudden, I realized how nice everybody was and how open everybody was. and even though it was a competition and there's money on the line, people wanted to help.
9:13Erica Roby:They wanted you to be there and they wanted you to keep coming back. And that was the first time where, you know, it wasn't like an adversarial courtroom where we're battling to the death, you know. It was actually like, yeah, I want to compete against you, but I want to compete against you when you're at your best.
9:29Drew Smith:And I want to see you do well too. Well, shout out to Bill. I mean, nice guy. And I'm sure you've passed it along and have mentored others now that you're on the circuit yourself. So how did you bridge that gap from last place to master of Q?
9:47Erica Roby:It really was getting a mentor, Bill, and talking to other people that actually do competition barbecue. And they started telling me the tricks of the trade and what your barbecue is supposed to taste like. And so actually getting to eat other competition pitmasters barbecue and realizing it was not restaurant barbecue. That was huge. That was a huge game changer for me. And then because I had that sommelier background and I understand flavors and acid and everything being in balance, I was able to then start crafting my own version of competition barbecue and getting out there and doing it.
10:24Drew Smith:Describe the difference then for us who have dreams of having our own crew and sleeping in our own trucks. You know, listen, I think we all want to be part of that life, as you say. But what's this competition queue like that's different than maybe what we're getting at our favorite barbecue place?
10:42Erica Roby:So competition barbecue, they're focused on one bite. And that one bite is what the judges are going to judge you on. And it has to be intensely flavored, intensely seasoned. I mean, just think of like the little seasoning packet in ramen. Like we've all just like busted that open and tried a piece like straight off the dome.
11:02Drew Smith:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
11:04Erica Roby:And it is so intensely flavored. Well, that's competition barbecue because you're getting one bite and then you're done. Whereas restaurant barbecue, you're making it for the masses. You want consistency, but you want people to eat their whole plate so they come back and that they're full and they enjoyed it. You would be freaking out if people only took one bite of your restaurant food and then left.
11:27Drew Smith:So the key is obviously rendering and getting that balance between acidity and also just making sure the cut is correct. The beef is really, really the best beef possible.
11:41Erica Roby:Yeah. And then the other big deal about it is the judges will have palate fatigue because they're eating barbecue from God knows how many teams. So yours has to stand out. So that's why acid comes into play. Salt comes into play. You want them to remember your barbecue when they take a bite of yours. You want their palate to wake back up.
12:04Drew Smith:What's the Erika Roby's flavor profile style then?
12:08Erica Roby:Yeah, so I definitely, I have a very like Creole Cajun influence. So I go very savory. I use a lot of herbs. I'm a person that will mix dried herbs together, toast them, and then mix them in. and at the very last bit, add some salt and sugar so that you're getting depth of flavor and you're getting layers. And it just basically feels like nature in your mouth. So that's how I've always operated. I know a lot of people, they love to go super sweet because you want like the sickly sweet candied barbecue when you're turning it in. But I've actually always gone savory and herbaceous and it's just worked for me.
12:48Drew Smith:That's a beautiful flavor choice. I love that as well. I think that those notes are, you know, the candy sweet is something, you know, you want for like a little bit, but it just, it blows you out a little bit and your palate. And yeah, it really does. So brisket is the cut that made your name on the circuit. And you tied for first at Memphis in May, which is really the Olympics of competition barbecue. That's incredible, incredible standing there. Walk me through your brisket philosophy from selection to slice.
13:23Erica Roby:So the first thing was we had to have the right marbling. And that's something that is a non-negotiable. You want that piece of brisket. You want to see striations through it. You want it to look like a kaleidoscope. There needs to be so much little white flecks all throughout because what is fat? Fat is flavor. and you need that fat to render down and also maintain that moisture for that brisket because once it's sliced, it might sit out for a while before the judges taste it. So for me, it was really sourcing the best brisket that I could get and knowing where it came from, how it was raised, what diet it was raised on because that's really, really important when you're getting out there in competition because that's going to determine the quality.
14:13Erica Roby:And then, I mean, a lot of people, they'll go up to exotic briskets that they are flying in, but I stay local. And that's the way that I've always been. So I made sure that I found a brisket that just had every single thing that I was looking for, that it wasn't too thin, that it wasn't too lean. Like you'll find a lot of briskets where, you know, it might, it might be really thin on the flat where you're going to get your slices from. And that signals right away that that's going to burn. You're going to have to trim a lot of that away. So there's going to be a lot of waste because that's going to burn off when it's on your smoker and when it's on the grill.
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14:50Erica Roby:So you want to make sure that you just have a nice uniform thick piece. I'd rather have a smaller brisket that's uniform than one that has a bunch of different altitudes in it. You know what I mean?
15:00Drew Smith:Absolutely know what you mean. And just you live in Texas and really, you know, beef is king. And for me, truly, beef barbecue is the greatest barbecue. Why is beef such a great protein to work with in competition barbecue? you?
15:14Erica Roby:Beef is my favorite. Like, and I grew up in Ohio, so I didn't get a lot of beef. So I had so much more respect when I finally moved down South and I was able to get my hands on brisket and beef ribs. There really is no other flavor like that. Like when you're looking for that umami, that deep savory, like soulful flavor, especially just imagine like as a kid, it's just, you get a big, like stewy hearty meal, you know, you get a pot roast or something. There is something so special and deep and proteiny about beef that just other proteins cannot compete with that. And so I think that's why we just always kind of gravitate toward beef and Texas knew it right away.
15:54Erica Roby:And so that's why they made sure that they're the kings of it because you really can't fake that flavor. You can't put your, you know, you can't put your spin on those deep umami flavors that you get out of beef. And so it just makes it where that's like on a fancy day, you know, you want to celebrate, you go to a steakhouse because you just, you want something luxurious. You want something that is just going to be guaranteed to taste great in any way that it's prepared. And that's another thing. Beef is so versatile. You can prepare it any way you want, and it is still going to maintain its integrity, but just allow itself to soak in and take those explosions of flavor that you're going to put on it.
16:37Erica Roby:And I think that that's magical.
16:38Drew Smith:So later in the episode, we hear from Tucker Brown, who's a sixth generation Texas cattle rancher. Great guy. How do you connect? Yeah, he's great. How do you connect as a competition barbecue winner with these with the ranchers, the folks who are who are raising the cattle?
16:59Erica Roby:Yeah. So I always felt that there was, you know, they were one step to move. There are these, you know, mythical American heroes that you never get to meet or talk to because they're, you know, tucked away on a ranch somewhere, you know, hundreds or thousands of acres deep. And that's actually not the case. I think once social media really took off, you're able to actually directly connect with your ranchers. And then there's CattleCon, which is the largest, I think, beef conference that happens every year. And everybody's there and they're willing to just talk about anything. You know, you're all talking about beef and you get to sit and, you know, have meals with them and get to talk with hundreds of ranchers.
17:40Erica Roby:So being able to, you know, be with the beef council, meet these ranchers and then go out on social media and maintain friendships. And they're always open like, hey, come to the ranch, come see what we're doing, because the more that we educate you, the more you're going to educate others. And so it's just been it's been a very beautiful kind of just partnership and friendship because they're actually very accessible. And especially this new generation, you know, that's in my similar age bracket. I mean, I'm not a day over 22, but anyway.
18:11Drew Smith:Same. Oh, I hope our producer Clayton and I can come down to CattleCon. I mean, this sounds amazing. I love just to meet the ranchers and hear their stories. And I think we have an image. You know, we watch a little Landman. We watch a little of those shows. But we have like an image of what the rancher is. But in reality, as you played out, it's very different.
18:32Erica Roby:No, they're just, they are the coolest, nicest people. You know, they want you to love beef as much as they do. And their passion for it shows. I mean, this last time it was in Nashville. So you get CattleCon and you're in Nashville. You're there for a week. It was amazing. And everybody really has that philosophy. There's no such thing as a stranger. It's just a friend I haven't met yet. And they really mean that. And they don't care. Like, you know, if you got one cow or you got 5 ,000, like you're still important. You're still cool. Your story is still there to share. and let's get to know each other and see how we can help each other.
19:07Erica Roby:And I just, I really love that.
19:09Drew Smith:Well, let's talk about some home barbecue. You know, people are intimidated by beef at the smoker. I think that that's a common feeling. They can be intimidated. But I think when you actually do it and you do it a couple of times, it's actually way easier than you think. But you need some help along the way. What's the most common mistake you see when folks are smoking their own briskets?
19:34Erica Roby:Yeah, so I think the biggest thing is that these reality shows, barbecue shows, and a lot of social media, they kind of hyped up brisket and beef ribs to kind of scare you. Like, oh, this is going to be the hardest thing to cook. And that's actually fake. That's not true. It really isn't. And I wish that people wouldn't take on the drama that might be manufactured around a brisket and believe it because honestly, brisket is one of the easiest things to cook if you just leave it alone. Do not babysit it like a piece of chicken. Do not check on it 3000 times because you're losing all the heat every time you open the lid to check on it or just stare at it.
20:20Erica Roby:It's actually meant to be like a set it and forget at it. And that's why it's supposed to take hours to do. If you have your temperatures right, you can let that baby smoke for 12, 14 hours. Some people go even longer. And it's one of those things. The brisket itself is trying to tell you just by the cut that it is, leave it alone, rub me with some seasoning, put me over in direct heat and let me smoke and do my thing for a few hours, go to work, go watch your favorite shows, and then come back and get me. And I think that people just can't believe that something so tasty and so iconic is actually one of the easiest things to cook.
21:01Drew Smith:I love that advice. Just let it be.
21:03Tucker Brown:So I definitely think it's just propaganda,
21:05Erica Roby:social media and reality TV show propaganda has frightened the masses on brisket.
21:10Drew Smith:Yeah, no, it's, it's, it is way easier than you think. And, you know, you, and you have the tools at home too who can direct i mean it's it's just sitting there i mean you have and you can smoke
21:19Erica Roby:in most things right yes and you know a lot of people have pellet smokers now like if you have a pellet smoker you should be putting that thing on before you go to work and just checking on it throughout the day if you have an app and letting it go like you really shouldn't be doing what a stick burner is going to do who's like tending to the fires under it and making sure there's no flare-ups so it makes it even easier and a lot of people just they they can't wrap their minds around that. So they're like, no, I have to keep checking it. I got to prod it. I got to turn it. I got to do this. You don't have to do anything.
21:50Erica Roby:And I think it's also like people want bragging rights that they have the best brisket. So they're like, I have to put a lot of time and energy into this if it's going to be the best brisket. And that's not the case. I had a brisket. I was in a cabin in West Virginia. Don't ask me why. And I decided I was going to cook a brisket. So I had I set up my little smoker and I was outside in the woods and I was cooking it. And then it got dark and I was like, oh man, I need to go back out there and check on it and make sure it's okay. And then I saw that there were claw marks in the window screen and they were bear claws.
22:30Erica Roby:So I was like, I'm not going to risk it for the brisket. I'm keeping myself inside. I'm not checking on this thing until morning. Whatever happens, happens to that brisket. Do you know to this day that's the best brisket I've ever cooked? Because I left it alone.
22:43Drew Smith:That is such good advice. I'm glad the bears didn't get you.
22:47Erica Roby:But then I was kind of offended. They didn't even take it. I was like, shouldn't they have wanted to take it?
22:52Drew Smith:Nah, I know. Well, let's talk about beef cuts. I think you've championed many, many less obvious cuts, the Denver steak, the Bavette. Is there a cut that you really, really think an average home cook is sleeping on right now?
23:05Erica Roby:The top sirloin. top sirloin is being slept on so hard i don't know what's going on with that but i mean that is just the darling i'm obsessed with it right now so when you talk about the top sirloin just
23:20Drew Smith:for our understanding um what what do you mean by that and how do we buy that in the grocery store do we do we ask our or our butcher shop do we ask for it it's already packaged and it'll say
23:31Erica Roby:it'll say top sirloin um but yeah it's you know it's a really good cut it has some of the most flavor i've ever had like the beef flavor and generally you know there's there's a lot in the grocery store especially down here and they're kind of just like pushed aside all over there by themselves looking sad so but yeah if you are first timer just go to the meat counter and ask them for top sirloin because that's going to be the one that has just the really tender, juicy, flavorful parts, and it's not so lean. So it's very forgiving when you cook it. And I mean, you're just going to be, you're going to be amazed by how great that is.
24:07Drew Smith:Love that rec. I haven't heard that one. That's, I mean, I know of the cup, but I haven't heard someone champion it so well. It's, it's, I'm, I know what I'm getting next. So you're a level two certified SOM and I have to ask like, are there specific wines that you'd like to pair with your, your brisket?
24:22Erica Roby:Definitely. So I'm a new world girl. I love California wine, maybe because that's where I started my career, but definitely Zinfandel, a New World Zinfandel. I like a Bialy, Bialy black chicken. It's my favorite Zinfandel and it just pairs beautifully with all beef cuts, but definitely with a brisket as well. Because if you're, you know, salt peppering your brisket and smoking it, you'll get smoke on the back end of this wine, but you get a lot of like dark black and red fruits and it's very fruit forward and it's dry. And so it just plays beautifully with that. It just, it's almost like a marmalade that you're sipping on while having like this really good smoky piece of beef.
25:08Drew Smith:Oh my gosh. What? You're a pro. You're certified. That was a really nice detail there. Well, Erica Roby, this has been such a great conversation. Thank you so much for joining This Is Taste.
25:19Erica Roby:Thank you for having me.
25:24Drew Smith:Tucker Brown, welcome to This Is Taste. How are you? Oh, man, I'm living the dream.
25:29Tucker Brown:I'm so good.
25:30Drew Smith:Well, I want to ask you first, you know, tell me something that you've eaten that's been absolutely delicious in the past couple of days.
25:38Tucker Brown:Oh, OK. So actually, last night, my wife and I We love like a Mexican-style protein bowl. We had some rice, and we used some fajita meat that we seasoned with some hardcore carnivore black. It's like my favorite seasoning. And I cooked it over a mesquite fire. We added some avocado, some sour cream, and some rice, and it was delicious. It has been on my mind ever since last night.
26:05Drew Smith:It sounds incredible, and like what an amazing flex. You're cooking mesquite in your home setup.
26:14Tucker Brown:Yeah, it's pretty great. Being in Texas, we have plenty of mesquite trees around and I've got plenty on the ranch that I can just go pick from. And the taste of the mesquite smoke is
26:24Drew Smith:one that I forget how much I like until I go somewhere else and I miss it. And so it's always, it's kind of like the taste of home. I love that. It's really one of America's greatest foods is Texas style smoked meats. I mean, absolutely the truth. Tell me a little bit about your family's history with ranching. You are a sixth generation rancher.
26:46Tucker Brown:Yeah, my family's been in the ranching industry since 1895, or at least that's the first actual receipt that we have or paper invoice that we have that was a boatload of cows sold to Cuba. And we know that we were in it before then. And even back in the Civil War, my family was training horses for the cavalry of the Civil War. And so we've been around ranching and cattle for as long as we can look back. So it's really cool to continue that tradition. And we've been here in North Texas since 1895. I guess it's 1903 is when we finally moved to Throckmorton, Texas. So been here ever since. And our goal is keeping the ranch and the family and the family and the ranch.
27:32Tucker Brown:And so my grandmother is who I love so dearly and so glad to still have around. That's something that she always said while we were growing up and my generation and the one before me and now the one coming after me. That's in our mind all the time. That's amazing. You were always going to be a rancher growing up. Well, actually not true. I did. I grew up ranching and working on the ranch and I did love it, but I loved the idea of doing some physical therapy. I love sports and playing sports. announcing sports. And so I thought that I'd be able to get into some sports physical therapy. And I remember I took my first major's biology class and I was like, nope, this is not it.
28:16Tucker Brown:This is not what I want to do. So I ended up changing my major. I'm glad I went and took those classes because I learned so much then, but I just knew that it wasn't for me. And so I changed up what I did. I played some college basketball. I still love sports. I do some sports announcing. And I've been doing that for like 12 years as kind of a side gig that just something that itches my media love, my love for media. But yeah, ever since then, I just knew that I wanted to be raised around ranching and have that communication and respect and respect for the land that I was raised with.
28:55Drew Smith:So Tucker, tell me what's the day to day like working on the ranch? And, and really, how do you interact with the animals? I think that's a big part of a wanted to chat with you is the wellness and welfare of the animals.
29:06Tucker Brown:The health of the animals is the number one goal. It has to be because if they're not healthy, they don't reproduce, they don't grow well, they don't sell well. And so morally, we're obligated to take care of these animals. They need to be raised right. They need to have the best food, the best water. And then for our business, it also makes sense because whenever they are their healthiest, they sell the best. And so morally and business, we're obligated to take care of these animals. So we do it a little different. We raise registered cattle, and genetics is what we sell. We sell the genetics of our cattle to other producers to add to their herds.
29:44Tucker Brown:And so that means we use a lot of technology. We use a lot of embryo transfer, a lot of artificial insemination, a lot of, you know, we can use ultrasound machines to scan our cattle to see what the marbling is like inside. So we use a lot of really sound science. to really look at what, how our cattle can produce. So day to day, first off, it's getting the animals fed. We raise and sell 800 bulls a year. And the bulls is what we, we work on every single day, getting them fed, making sure their health is checked. And right now we're in calving season. So while we're taking care of those bulls that are growing, we're checking on our mama cows, um, every day, at least every other day, but especially the, uh, the cows that are having their first baby that we call heifers man we're checking them every four hours making sure that they don't need help and if they do we're there to help them so that that is what our day-to-day looks like we're meeting at the saddle house with the crew of there's um seven of us that'll meet at the saddle house every morning and we have a foreman who's kind of lined out our day and we take care of our job whether that's taking care of the bulls getting ready for a bull sale checking the health on the animals that's what we're doing every day how long are the days oh that's it's definitely seasonal you know once summer comes around in texas it gets really hot and uh if you know we're always caring about that those animals are as comfortable as they can be and so we try to do all of our work early in the morning and once it gets 11 o 'clock it's really hard to move cattle to work with them very well, that's when we can get inside or start working on fence.
31:26Tucker Brown:But normally the days, they tend to be around nine to 10 hours is where we try to keep it. We do try to stay up with family time. I think that's really important. And something that our families pass down is that it is important to be able to spend time with our family, whether that's that is spending time fixing that fence or whether that's at home cooking that nice protein bowl that we did last night.
31:46Drew Smith:Well, speaking of protein, zooming out, you know, in 2026, beef demand remains historically high, even as prices continue to rise, the sales have increased. Tucker, how do you square this?
31:59Tucker Brown:I think it's a testament to really where we've moved in the past 20 years with the beef industry. And I mean, we've made a lot of progress in the last 20 years, but we've really looked at it since about the 80s when demand started to go down because our product was – it was not a great product. It was a product that was never the same. We didn't – some of them were tender, some of them weren't. And that's not good business. And so since then, the industry has done a really good job of listening to the consumer and producing what they want, which is a tender steak that has a lot of marbling that just melts in your mouth and tastes really good.
32:36Tucker Brown:And so we've been able to breed these cattle using sound science and EPDs that do more with less and have their calf every year, are good mothers, and then can produce beef that is perfect for the family table. And I think that's what we're seeing. We're seeing the results of listening to our customer, doing what they want us to do and build, and now we're seeing the results of that because the product is elite. We have more high-quality choice in prime beef than we ever have, and demand remains high.
33:06Drew Smith:Yeah, and the customer is willing to pay as well. I mean it's just the facts of the matter is that with that premium beef comes a cost, and people are budgeting for it.
33:19Tucker Brown:It's true. And you know, will we see the, where the price point makes people pick a different protein? I think there is a point of that and where that's at, I don't know. And, well, you know, I hope people know that it's not ranchers that are setting those prices because we're not, we're not making those prices high so that we can get that buck. You know, we do all we can every year to keep our ranch and the family and the family and the ranch. And part of that means making a profit, But with the numbers so low right now, as far as cattle, with the numbers so low, it's supply and demand. The supply is low, the demand is high.
33:57Tucker Brown:And right now, customers are willing to pay for it. And that's including me. I buy beef as well.
34:04Drew Smith:Why are the number of cows so low?
34:08Tucker Brown:I think it's a number of things. There has been long-term drought in parts of the country where that has been some cattle country. And that's part of it. Another part of it is that with prices so high, we've gone through a pretty difficult time in the past 20 years. There was a time in 2015 where the prices were really good for ranchers. But since then, this has kind of been the next resurgence of those prices being high. And so when those ranchers have the opportunity to sell those calves, to pay off their house, their ranch, their loans on those cattle, they take those opportunities. And I think we're seeing part of that.
34:49Tucker Brown:But because we're also losing a lot of acres, and that's something that a lot of people don't think about. We're losing grazing acres. And then what are we losing them to? Most of the time, it's urbanization. We're losing them to solar farms. We're losing them to data centers, AI data centers. we're losing to a lot of things that are taking that grazing ground away and for the health of the soil we can't put the same amount of cattle on less acres it it doesn't make sense but what we have done is we've made those cattle bigger and so we've been able to produce nearly the same amount of beef on less less grazing land but i think the rancher is getting better every day at that at becoming a better ranch manager, making their soil healthier to be able to put more cattle on that.
35:37Tucker Brown:And those are the challenges that we're dealing with.
35:40Drew Smith:Yeah, such a challenge as our economy shifts and solar farms and data centers and warehousing becomes more important in some quarters and ranching and farming writ large is less important, at least in terms of the general trends. But on the flip side, the demand remains high and high. I feel for you, Tucker. I feel for you and your fellow ranchers and farmers.
36:10Tucker Brown:You know, the trend is, I think it's really neat right now because since COVID, people have really wondered where their food comes from, or at least they're more interested to know how it was raised, how it was grown, which I think is really good. There's been, I think the data is showing that about three generations right now are removed from the farm and ranch or have lived in urban areas for two to three generations. And so you can see why people know less about their food. But I think we're seeing with this resurgence of the trend of the cowboy being cool, we're seeing this resurgence of people wanting to know more about their food.
36:49Tucker Brown:And I love that.
36:50Drew Smith:By many accounts, the U.S. has the safest and most sustainable beef production in the world. Public perception may not agree. I just want to hear directly from a rancher about your experiences with both safety and sustainability.
37:05Tucker Brown:Safety and sustainability have to be important to us if we, in the long run, want to raise our own food and we want to keep the ranch with the families. And if we want to keep that ranch for a long time, sustainability has to be important. And then if I'm going to raise food to put on my family's table, I want it to be safe. And never would I put something on another family's table that I wouldn't put on my own. And I think our country does a really good job of that. But fear is real. And fear of the unknown is, I think, something that's going on with our culture at the moment. They do want to know more about their food, but they don't know who to ask.
37:40Tucker Brown:And then the places they're hearing it from may not be telling the whole truth. Some of those may be enemies of protein, enemies of the beef industry, enemies of other proteins that are out there, which are true. There are enemies out there for that. But it's really cool because there are ranchers like me and many others that do want to share the story of how cool and how far we have come with the safety and sustainability of producing this product that our customers love.
38:13Drew Smith:I want to talk beef. Let's get into it. First off, this may be a difficult question, but what is your favorite way to cook a steak?
38:23Tucker Brown:Part of it I've already said. My favorite way to cook a steak is over a mesquite fire. I think that's the best way to do it. Over a mesquite fire, and I like to cook it pretty hot, and then I like to cook it to medium rare. So if I can have a ribeye with the hardcore carnivore black seasoning cooked on there with a good sear over a hot mesquite wood fire to medium rare, that's a favorite way.
38:50Drew Smith:Sounds amazing. What is the most underrated cut of beef?
38:57Tucker Brown:I think some of those underrated cuts are some newer cuts that folks may not know about. Now, one for the United States, the picanha is relatively new and growing, but the picanha is a really cool cut that you can throw on the smoker and smoke, or you can cut them up into steaks, and they're so good. But it's really not well known. Another one is the flat iron steak that is a smaller steak, and as steaks are getting larger, this flat iron steak is becoming more of a family favorite because they're smaller and can fit the family size and the price point. but just many people don't know about them.
39:33Drew Smith:I love those. I've had a picanha in my day and it's a wonderful cut. I love it. We have a lot of chefs and listeners who work in the industry. What do you wish more of these professionals considered when cooking beef for their guests?
39:50Tucker Brown:As far as consideration, I hope the chef considers what the consumer wants first because if the consumer doesn't like it then it doesn't matter how good we make the product. And I think the chefs have done a really good job of that. But if we can consider telling the whole story of how this was raised by a family ranch, which over 90 % of farms and ranches in the U.S. are family owned, whenever we can tell that whole story from the start to the end, that story is powerful. And it shares what exactly the U.S. has done to produce this product that's finally making it to the table.
40:24Drew Smith:Yeah. I think it's an important point. I think getting that story out there and having that articulated by chefs who are putting these steaks that are becoming more and more expensive on their menus, and that's because of, as you explained well, it's like just the cost of goods and doing business is much higher. They need to like tell a little bit more. It can't just be, you know, a ribeye for two for X amount. They need to tell some story. How would you love to see it articulated by the chefs?
40:51Tucker Brown:You know, I think a way that the chefs are able to could articulate that. I mean, one is by meeting ranchers like myself and thousands of others across the U.S. so that they know the story to be able to share it correctly. And I think sharing that correctly is extremely important. But the way to articulate it would be by telling the truth. And when the truth is told, the beef industry wins. And that's what I love about this industry is that the – that truth that is so easy to tell is a good thing. And if there is something bad about it, the industry has been really good about going back, looking at it, correcting it, and using science and data to make sure that what we say is true.
41:36Drew Smith:So like furthering the education amongst ranchers, they can then be expressed back to the consumer, the chef, the grocery store, the butcher shop.
41:45Tucker Brown:Yeah, totally agree.
41:47Drew Smith:Tucker Brown, this has been a lot of fun. Thank you so much for joining This Is Taste. Thanks, Matt.
41:56Drew Smith:This Is Taste is hosted and produced by Eliza Abarbanal and me, Matt Rodbar. The show is edited by lead producer Clayton Gumbert and supervised by Pat Stango, director of media production and development at Penguin Random House. Thanks to Shalia Harris and the production team at Penguin Random House. Theme music by Steve Rydell. Episode portraits by Louise Zergon Pomeroy. Logo design by Ellie Skrzat and Ian Dingham. Visit Taste Online at tastecooking.com and make sure to subscribe to our newsletter to keep updated on all cool things in the world of taste.
From the publisher
Erica Roby is Food Network’s BBQ Brawl season two champion, a former criminal defense attorney, a Level 2 sommelier, and one of the most compelling voices in American barbecue. She joins us for a lively conversation about fire, smoke, and the cut that made her name. We dig into her Creole-inflected competition style, the patience required to master brisket, the beef cuts every home cook should know, and how she’s building a new generation of pitmasters from the ground up.
Also on the show is Tucker Brown, a sixth-generation Texas cattle rancher. We find out what it actually takes to raise great beef and what he wants people to understand the next time they’re standing at the butcher counter.
This episode is presented by Beef. It’s What’s For Dinner. On behalf of the Beef Checkoff.
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