757: Inside the Cult of Canyon Coffee

12:09Casey Wojtalewicz:it's good ice cream

12:10Zoe Kanan:it's really good and like for some reason the scoop shop always was great and I like went and you know walked down Smith Street with my scoops. Somehow it hit different when you can just pull out a pint of chai and just have it to like pair with like whatever your dinner is. It's like different to have these pints available. And I just think that this ice cream company is so, so good. I mean, the pints, again, are masala chai, rose and cinnamon roasted almonds, and orange fennel. And I think she was at the show mostly to talk about her novelties which are the like handheld cookie sandwiches um so she had the cardamom snickerdoodle like cookie with rose almond ice cream there was a chai molasses cookie with masala chai ice cream and a chocolate chip cookie with star anise ice cream by far my favorite pairing chocolate chip cookies is really and like really baked well like delicious for a frozen uh cookie sandwich just to have this quality of cookies is kind of uncommon.

13:16Zoe Kanan:But then having star anise ice cream, that pairing, ridiculous. It's so good. I love these handhelds.

13:24Casey Wojtalewicz:Well, I'll have to seek them out. I'm a fan of an ice cream sandwich in general.

13:28Zoe Kanan:Eliza, what's your last thing?

13:29Casey Wojtalewicz:My last thing is it would not be a trip to LA without going to Koreatown. Tanya was really craving Korean food. And we went to Songbuk-dong. Have you been there before?

13:39Zoe Kanan:Songbuk-dong, I haven't been. No.

13:40Casey Wojtalewicz:This is like, I think they've been open for at least 20 years now. You know, classic like K-Town strip mall, family run establishment, doing like really like home style Korean food. We went there for the galbi gym, which I think is what basically everybody in the restaurant ordered when we were there. And the owner, whose name is Young Hee-Soon, who's originally from South Korea's Gyeongsang-do area, is so sweet. And she walks up to every table and takes the order. And every time somebody orders Galbi Jim, she goes, so popular. And almost with like the state of shock. But I think once you have the Galbi Jim, you understand why it's so popular because it's so melt in the mouth tender, just delicious.

14:20Casey Wojtalewicz:It comes to the table in this pot with this super delicious, like not too sweet, balanced braising liquid that has these kind of chunks of like carrot and potato and shimeji mushrooms in it as well. It's so comforting and good. And the other thing that we got that I really enjoyed was kimchi jjigae. just classic delicious this is like not a fancy or a new or trendy koreatown restaurant and it's actually in the same parking lot as like a very tiktok famous koreatown is it on 6th street i

14:49Zoe Kanan:believe it is on 6th street i've been there i've totally been to seongbukdong so it's in the same

14:52Casey Wojtalewicz:parking lot as dongseongsa which is a very popular kind of like drinking like pocha style spot and when we pulled up into the parking lot at the valet i was like oh for like dongseongsa right And I was like, no.

15:03Zoe Kanan:Sungbuk-dong.

15:04Casey Wojtalewicz:Sungbuk-dong. I'm committed to this really kind woman and this food, which is so delicious. And I think I've been going there for at least 15 years now. So it's really special to get to go back there again.

15:15Zoe Kanan:Yeah, I think Sungbuk-dong is where I maybe first tried Kulpi-jim for the first time. I remember it vividly because I think we had it after going to Dengseung-sa. You did a one-two. I think I did a one-two because Dengseung-sa is like this classic pocha. pocha has like um you know like you can have like 20 bottles of soju and you know yeah it's super

15:35Casey Wojtalewicz:fun and i don't mean to like compare the two no no the fact that they're directly next to each

15:39Zoe Kanan:other but um yeah that's my third thing it's an iconic place i'm glad you you went there with tanya that's me too matt what's your third thing my last thing is jury duty company retreat oh i've

15:52Casey Wojtalewicz:been watching it great but i'm not i've only seen two episodes i've only watched three because as

15:57Zoe Kanan:of this recording only three have been public like put out okay they're doing like the tapered binge i guess it's like three three and three so great we can talk about it because i i absolutely love this show love the series as a reminder it's the follow-up to the peabody award-winning emmy nominated jury duty uh i believe it it deserves those flowers and it's kind of like that concept is pretty simple there's basically one guy who is not in on the joke and the rest are a joke. The first episode or the first season was around a jury. And this one is around a company retreat. And I think the best part of the show is obviously the cast and the characters they build around this real life person who doesn't realize that they're in the middle of a reality Truman show style recording.

16:45Casey Wojtalewicz:Yeah, the show is single handedly employing like half of the improv people I would say and it is crazy to watch it happening and just watch this person I think they do a really good job of casting people in the kind of real person role who are just generous-hearted and they're being faced with a lot of like strange people and interactions and they always are like the best reaction you know it's I think when I first heard about this show I didn't want to watch it because I thought it was going to be like me and like a YouTube prank show where this person is getting bullied or something. And it's kind of the opposite.

17:19Casey Wojtalewicz:Like this person is given the opportunity to like rise to the occasion, even when the occasion is so bizarre.

17:24Zoe Kanan:Yeah, Anthony is really a lovable character. And at least from three episodes.

17:29Casey Wojtalewicz:So far, we'll see. I don't want to be like, you know, stumping too hard for this man. Exactly, we don't know about Anthony.

17:34Zoe Kanan:But I think he seems like he's really rolling with the punches. The food angle is, the whole retreat is based around a hot sauce company called Rockin' Grandma's Hot Sauce.

17:44Casey Wojtalewicz:A fictional hot sauce company.

17:45Zoe Kanan:fictional hot sauce.

17:46Casey Wojtalewicz:But they go to really great lengths to make the show seem legitimate. I was reading about how they kind of make it happen and they make like fake social media for all the people in case he decided to look them up. So they also, you know, have hot sauce around. So clearly they had to either take someone else's hot sauce or like make their own.

18:01Zoe Kanan:I know. And they clearly, the way they do the show is they clearly have like a lot of like real mundane stuff happening and then they have moments of like craziness happening. So yeah, they clearly got into the hot sauce game weeds a bit. But I love the show. So I think they've really nailed it. It's like very hard to do this show. It seems extremely difficult.

18:20Casey Wojtalewicz:Yeah. I know somebody who was a cam op on the last season. And it seemed like it was a lot of like kind of hurry up and wait type stuff. And this camera is everywhere also because they tell the person, the real person, we're filming a documentary. So they're not having to hide all of the cameras. But I think the level of cameras is maybe a little bit not as obvious from the start. Exactly. Did I tell you? I thought I had like a I thought I was maybe going to experience a jury duty type situation. No, tell me. Last year? So last year I was called into jury duty for Brooklyn. And when I went to the jury duty place and I was waiting around, it was right when Severance was on.

18:52Casey Wojtalewicz:And I looked around and I saw this man and I was like, this is John Turturro, like in the jury duty room with me. And I'm just sitting there and then they, you know, they're calling everyone's names to get called up and they call John Turturro and he like stands up and maybe a third of the courtroom like reacts. The other two thirds have no idea who this guy is. But in the first season of jury duty, It's all like quote unquote normal people. And then it's one actor who's like James Marsden, who's like playing himself essentially. So the only possible way that I could conceive of John Turturro being on an actual jury was like if they were somehow doing a jury duty type situation.

19:24Casey Wojtalewicz:But obviously they wouldn't do that twice. And we both ended up not being called on to the trial. But it was pretty funny.

19:30Zoe Kanan:Well, again, jury duty is such a such a great show. Check it out. And Eliza, thanks for sharing your three things.

19:36Casey Wojtalewicz:You too.

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21:48Casey Wojtalewicz:Ali Walsh and Casey Watalevich, this is Tase. Thank you for coming on the podcast.

21:53Ally Walsh:Thanks for having us.

21:54Casey Wojtalewicz:Thank you. I'm so happy to catch you guys on the end of your New York trip. Whenever LA people come to New York, I'm always curious how their trip is going, if they've eaten anywhere good. I know you guys have been busy opening the cafe, but if you had any good meals or bites in between.

22:10Amanda Perdomo:Yeah, we have. My sister, my siblings live in Brooklyn Heights, and we love walking to Inga's Bar. So cute there. So cute. They have the best burger, I think, in New York.

22:21Casey Wojtalewicz:What's like a perfect burger to you?

22:23Amanda Perdomo:It's medium well as a soft bun.

22:27Casey Wojtalewicz:Medium well?

22:27Amanda Perdomo:I get no cheese. Yeah, I do medium well.

22:29Ally Walsh:Interesting.

22:29Amanda Perdomo:It's to her. Yeah. No cheese, lettuce, onion, and really good fries, and then a martini. Perfect. Casey, what about you?

22:39Ally Walsh:Oh, man. Where have I been? I mean, other staples in that zone are like Long Island Bar. So good. Similar vibe diner. Went to those. I went to Daphne's in Bushwick, which was good. It was like my favorite Caesar salad.

22:58Casey Wojtalewicz:Italian spot?

22:59Ally Walsh:Yeah. Yeah. The Michelin star.

23:01Casey Wojtalewicz:I feel like a lot of my friends go there and I haven't made it there yet. But these places you're all mentioning all seem like very New York-y kind of spots to me, which I think is totally right to, like, seek out the booth experience, the martini experience of it all. I went to L Industry for the first time, the pizza. Oh, yeah. L Industry. L Industry. Yeah. It's a really good pizza.

23:22Amanda Perdomo:It was really good. I feel like they'll open in LA. It's maybe top favorite pizza right now. I didn't go for a while.

23:28Ally Walsh:Whoa, you've thrown out best burger, best pizza. Best pizza.

23:31Casey Wojtalewicz:She's like the most. Maybe I don't know.

23:33Amanda Perdomo:I just, just in this moment or in this trip, it's been really nice.

23:36Ally Walsh:Those are, that's, that's, Ali doesn't give out compliments like that often.

23:39Amanda Perdomo:I just went to Odeon for the first time this trip. Wow. And that was special.

23:43Casey Wojtalewicz:Took my siblings for their birthday and we had a lot of fun. I think it's a classic place that stands the test of time. And on the industry front, I didn't go for a while because there always is a line and I just didn't want to wait for pizza because there's so many pizza places in that neighborhood. But then I did wait and then it was worth it. And it obviously moves very fast. So now I'm like a reformed, you know, now I'm like a line apologist. I'm like, no, no, no. It moves really fast. It's all good.

24:08Ally Walsh:Sometimes there's a reason for the line.

24:10Casey Wojtalewicz:Yeah. I mean, your new spot has a big line right now. So we have to take that stance. It moves fast. I mean, it does move fast, right? It's not like they have to cook a whole dinner or anything. No.

24:20Ally Walsh:The intention is to move it fast. We don't try to milk the line.

24:24Casey Wojtalewicz:Okay. Yeah. No one's doing like a fake. no one's hiring like line sitters or anything. So I want to talk about the New York outpost of Canyon. They just opened. But I guess before that, I want to talk about more of the early days of Canyon. I'm curious if you could maybe tell me about what you think from the beginning made Canyon special and kind of like set you on this path where you've been able to, you know, become like a wholesale roaster and have two cafes now. Like what's the kind of distinguishing factor?

24:53Ally Walsh:Well, definitely 10 years. I mean, like, it's like a big ingredient in that recipe. But one thing that hasn't changed from the beginning when we were surveying the coffee landscape and at the time, like being a musician and model duo, we had a bit of imposter syndrome about starting coffee, even though it was something we were so passionate about. And so from the beginning, we decided that what would really justify it for ourselves was this idea that we could add warmth to people's lives. And so with coffee, this thing that we're really passionate about being the vessel, that's been the main through line.

25:39Ally Walsh:And then, yeah, I mean, we really just like we were not paying ourselves the first four or five years. we just bootstrapped and we did a ton of pop-ups which is almost like a rite of passage for like millennial startup, you know, food, coffee startups these days. And we just, Ali started building this brand which features a lot of like things outside of coffee, you know, music, creatives that we admire, chefs. So we built this kind of brand that again And with over five, six, 10 years, just slowly started to build. And I think maintaining quality coffee throughout that is what the combination of all those things.

26:27Ally Walsh:If you didn't have, like, if you had, like, a cool brand and hustle, but you didn't have quality coffee, like, I don't think we would have gotten here today.

26:34Casey Wojtalewicz:Totally. Because there are, I mean, I think what you guys created in the early days wasn't is so special. But there are plenty of like vibey coffee shops you can go to in L.A. or New York. So you need to have something that keeps people coming back as well.

26:47Amanda Perdomo:Yeah, exactly. And I think it was important for us to always have consistent. I just drink black coffee. And for that to always be consistent and delicious. And we weren't after drinks just for viral or to go viral or for TikTok or just to make something look pretty. It was important to us that it always tasted really good. good ingredients that's always been important to us yeah it's interesting i feel like almost in that era of coffee 10 years ago that was really like pour over like single origin like black

27:22Casey Wojtalewicz:coffee and obviously that still exists today but now we're in this kind of like strawberry matcha

27:27Amanda Perdomo:like cream top like these more kind of um nuanced like layered drinks do you try to kind of do both

27:33Casey Wojtalewicz:of those things or how do you decide like what is in a cafe we we don't if we are going to do an

27:39Amanda Perdomo:event and we want to and someone want to do a drink collaboration with us we've done some of those drinks that you've mentioned for a month long period just to work with other companies to

27:51Ally Walsh:promote but like a fun one was for boni vera's last album yes we did like we made a salmon colored drink in like a soft black colored drink it was like a hibiscus milk tea and then like a hojicha brown sugar latte with pistachio milk and both of them were on tap we just did it for a month Like color drinks, you know.

28:10Casey Wojtalewicz:Is it hard to take it off after the month, though? I feel like people must. We kept the Hojicha. We kept one of them on, yeah.

28:14Ally Walsh:You can still get it now if you get the Hojicha Cafe. But we, yeah, no, I guess in that kind of perspective, we're still living 10 years in the past. Like, you know, it was six years in that we opened that first cafe. And so we had this whole kind of brand ethos that we then tried to put into this space. but yeah in LA especially at the time the trend was definitely like coffee cocktail drinks and like really really cool innovative drinks honestly yeah we looked around and just thought let's just make it about kind of classic quality consistency I feel like I've actually become like a more of a

28:57Casey Wojtalewicz:specialty drink person more recently I don't know if you'd call this specialty but like espresso tonic I feel like is so delicious and refreshing in a way that I've never said that about a coffee drink before and I was just in LA and I feel like almost every cafe I was at was doing an espresso tonic but it's not that common here in New York still yeah maybe it'll come over I don't

29:15Ally Walsh:know it's good I love that too literally I was just at our shop in Prospect Heights today and this woman walked out with six really yeah espresso tonics yeah that's I mean gonna be me probably

29:26Casey Wojtalewicz:is there like a fruit flavor going on in that or is it just like the tonic and the espresso we do

29:30Ally Walsh:We did orange citrus. But yeah, in L.A., it's funny. You can do like a tour because people get creative with it. At different times, we've done like a more like a lime citrus with pomegranate syrup. And it's kind of like fun to do seasonal.

29:43Casey Wojtalewicz:Yeah, I was in Cafe Tropical and they were doing a grapefruit one, which is good. So good. And I think like, I don't know, I think like New York is behind L.A. in the coffee game in certain ways. Like, no disrespect to the amazing cafes in New York, of which there are many. But I feel like the innovation of like the specialty drink, like cream top, etc. kind of front, like it hasn't really been here in the same kind of way yet.

30:08Ally Walsh:Yeah, I suppose L.A. has kind of been ground zero for that kind of arowannification of, you know, like drinks and like viral like smoothies and stuff. So maybe that's kind of.

30:19Casey Wojtalewicz:I think also, you know, the West Coast is closer to Asia. And I feel like a lot of like Asian cafes have been really like pioneering a lot of those drinks in some ways. So I wonder if it's kind of like migrated in that way. as well yeah so i guess before we get into the new york move and everything can you tell me each

30:35Ally Walsh:about what kind of work you both do for canyon today on paper i'm the ceo um i guess i am the ceo in real life too yeah it was funny when we like had to make those titles when we formed our llc it was like well that's a joke you know yeah yeah but no truly now we have um well now we we have like 55 people on the team and so I but my roles changed a lot just in the last year and a half of growth we realized it wasn't sustainable to be that like founder who like bottom lines everything so we've really grown the team and have a lot new like great leaders on now so now a lot more of my time is spent just kind of almost more architecting like helping make sure no blockages exist for our team totally and then still kind of yeah being the like utility utility knife when there's some kind of problem that we don't know how to fix but right now we're short stat we're trying to hire more people on the team in brooklyn so i'm like washing dishes and sleeping floors all morning yeah which is so fun it is fun it's it's it's it's hard to actually go away from because it's fun to just have very tangible things where you're like right and it's

31:49Casey Wojtalewicz:the thing that you more of probably fell in love with as opposed to like the running the company

31:54Amanda Perdomo:of it all is kind of like what comes second for sure yeah um and then i'm more on the creative and visual side um this for most well casey and i do the stores together from the beginning but then i kind of take on all the fixtures and hardware and art and all that stuff there's such a strong Long sensibility, yeah. Yeah, thank you. It's been, it's the best part, I think, working with all these artists and collaborating with people to make it so beautiful in there. Yeah. And then I work with our PR really closely and any partnerships and all our newsletters and marketing and social media, anything brand, visual, everything, all that stuff.

32:40Casey Wojtalewicz:Totally. A lot. We're talking about like the cafes a lot, but there's also this kind of wholesale, like selling beans to cafes and grocery stores side of the business. Like how would you kind of say the ratio is between the wholesale business and the cafe side?

32:55Ally Walsh:Right now, wholesale is probably like almost like 50 percent of the business. And the cafe, which to date has just been the Los Angeles one, is like a little over 30 percent. And then e-commerce is actually a little over 10 percent. So however that math will. Totally. Yeah.

33:12Amanda Perdomo:Sometimes I don't think people realize how big the wholesale is.

33:15Casey Wojtalewicz:Yeah. Well, especially, I mean, you sell, I think, all across the country, but like maybe more of a footprint on the West Coast. So if you are following the brand on Instagram, you see people going to the coffee shop when they're in L.A., like you maybe don't think of all of these layers to it.

33:29Amanda Perdomo:Yeah.

33:29Ally Walsh:Yeah. Wholesale still being the biggest part of our business. And actually one of our biggest customers is LeVan Bakeries.

33:36Casey Wojtalewicz:Oh.

33:36Ally Walsh:So we've been doing their coffee a few years and including all their New York locations.

33:40Casey Wojtalewicz:Wow. Okay. I have not been to a Levain recently, although my friend brought me a cookie recently and they do hold up, honestly.

33:47Ally Walsh:Yeah.

33:47Casey Wojtalewicz:The chocolate peanut butter one is, it's crazy. It's like a whole meal, but.

33:51Ally Walsh:It's dangerous because like we talk, we work very closely with them and anytime they come up, I just like want one of those cookies.

33:58Casey Wojtalewicz:Definitely. And you've been like doing this kind of roasting as a core part of the business for so long. Are the major farms that you work with the same partners from early on? or how do you kind of grow that collection of what you have on offer?

34:09Ally Walsh:Yeah, I mean, the first part of that, we, from the time that we started, like when we would find and connect with the farm that we really like resonated with like their growing practices and their coffee, we were just like, let's try, let's commit to working with this group every year. And like, it might be like a paltry amount right now, but maybe one day it'll be big. And so there's farms. One of them is, they're called the Asprasar. Co-op, it's an acronym, basically like the growers of Santa Rosa and Tolima, Colombia. And now we buy maybe like two, three shipping containers of their coffee a year.

34:45Ally Walsh:Wow. And we actually, they were organic certified. They started their co-op the same year we started in 2016. And we were one of the first roasters to buy from them. And we actually helped them make the leap to get regenerative organic certified last year. So that's one. So that's like an eight, nine year relationship. there's a producer in Ethiopia called Snap that has done incredible work we've been buying from them for like six years um and then we've been working a lot with a group called Finca Churrapampa in Peru for about four years now and um there's also a group in Veracruz uh so we try to keep buying from the same groups year after year for new relationships we're always kind of trying to explore and just like make sure we're not that we're also like innovating like keeping open to finding new farmers and so um we work closely with different import groups i always like i think they're like the unsung heroes like a lot of roasters try to tell the story as if like they went out and like found the coffee farmers and we found the best coffee and it's like no like Like a lot of these import groups were doing work for decades and finding these farmers, helping them get better premiums.

36:04Ally Walsh:And so we'll often start there and we'll go off seasonality. So when Burundis are coming in, we'll taste a lot. And if we like something, we'll pursue it.

36:16Casey Wojtalewicz:Yeah, I think that balance must be like a whole kind of thing to imagine. But especially being able to grow alongside a group like this one that you've been with for so long and watch you both thrive. that seems like a really special experience.

36:28Ally Walsh:Yeah. And we haven't even, like, you know, we couldn't really afford to go visit farms. And so we haven't even really been to that. We haven't been to that producer group in Tolima yet.

36:38Casey Wojtalewicz:Oh, you have to go. I know. We do. It's on the list.

36:40Ally Walsh:It's like we're planning to this year, you know. So we'll see if we can pull that off.

36:45Casey Wojtalewicz:Oh, I hope you get some footage of that over onto the many social accounts, Ali. I'd love to see it. I know. I'm excited for that.

36:51Amanda Perdomo:We went to Mexico. That was really inspiring.

36:54Casey Wojtalewicz:Yeah. It was incredible. So I'm sure people have been asking you to open a second location probably from as soon as the first one was opened. Like, how did you decide that this was the right moment? And why did you want to do that in New York as opposed to another part of L.A. even?

37:10Ally Walsh:Well, actually, the plan was to open more in L.A. first. Oh, okay. Yeah, it kind of—we were not planning to do more. And then when we saw the response to the first cafe and we heard from people in Echo Park who told us, I didn't know my neighbors until you open your shop and now I have dinner with them. And we were like, oh, this is like we're actually accomplishing this goal of actually like making a community space. So we should do this in more areas. and we wanted to do it where our current team lives because a lot of them have been a part of that first shop since it opened almost four years ago now.

37:48Ally Walsh:So we started looking for locations close to where they live, which is generally like East LA, Highland Park, Eagle Rock, South Pasadena. And then while we were looking, one of our best friends, Jody, who splits time between New York and LA, texted us this photo of this corner spot with the For Lease sign. in Prospect Heights and she was like what'd she say yeah she messaged me and she said imagine if this was Canyon so I went and checked it out so yeah Casey went and checked it out

38:18Amanda Perdomo:it was pretty perfect and for me opening in New York has always been a dream for me I grew up in New York my siblings live in Brooklyn my family I'm from Long Island and I always imagined one day we would open here but i don't think i thought it would be right now yeah i thought it was a maybe three-year goal and when jody sent that spot it was a corner spot it was so similar to echo

38:46Casey Wojtalewicz:park it felt right can i just say i live walking distance from this location oh yeah i have seen probably three or four different restaurants in that same spot and every time i'd be like what's gonna open here next like i hope this will be something that is like the right fit for the neighborhood that will last because it is such a good location for something. And when I saw that that was where you guys were opening, I was just like, oh, this, I mean, I didn't expect it, but it makes so much sense. And I love that like someone in your life also just saw this location and wanted something good to happen there because I think that's like such a community driven thing.

39:20Casey Wojtalewicz:Yeah.

39:20Amanda Perdomo:And for us too, it wasn't about trying to open something as fast as possible or like getting the next one. It had to feel right for both of us. And I don't know, I feel like this was the perfect opportunity for the next canyon yeah even though it was new york and yeah it just

39:37Ally Walsh:it just felt similar to how that spot our first spot in echo park felt where we had been looking and if it was more just the for us the vibe was like we can't miss this spot that's how it felt

39:48Casey Wojtalewicz:to us like this feels too right totally how did you begin to build out what like the feeling and the offerings of the new york location would be and how similar or different do you think it is to the Echo Park location?

40:02Ally Walsh:It's pretty similar. Like what we built, we really felt that works in LA. There's a lot of little things just in the design and the kind of the business model of it. So we basically brought the bar layout and some of the similar kind of, there's some similar material choices in terms of the wood and stone just because we felt like it really accomplished what we were after of making a space that feels welcoming and calm and warm. Almost like somebody's house that you might come into. Yeah. Like both spots feature this empty island counter with seating where you can pull up which also kind of feels like a diner.

40:51Amanda Perdomo:We didn't want it to feel kind of like a copy and paste of L.A. to Brooklyn, which I think now seeing it come to life and seeing people in it, it has its own shape to it than Echo Park. It feels a little bit more refined in there.

41:09Casey Wojtalewicz:And the offerings are a little different. You have two of the best bakers in New York doing pastries at the Prospect Heights location, Amanda Perdomo and Elbow Bread. How did you land that duo? Because I'm so excited about that. Thank you, Ali.

41:27Amanda Perdomo:There were times where I was like, I feel like I'm a stalker. Well, I just DM'd them. Actually, Sasha, who I work with in Echo Park, is friends with Zoe. Sasha Pilligan, who's a great baker in L.A. And she's good friends with Zoe.

41:44Ally Walsh:It was similar with Sasha in L.A. She wasn't doing wholesale pastry. We just knew her from the scene. And we were like, would you do wholesale pastry with us if we were your first account? Yeah. That's how she got it going. Yeah, and so then she connected me with Zoe, and then I met with, had a couple calls with her, and then I met with her.

42:02Amanda Perdomo:We did a tasting, and she was so excited about it, too, because we're her first wholesale account. Yeah. So that was really exciting for her, and then I met with Amanda.

42:11Ally Walsh:I got to do that first tasting.

42:13Amanda Perdomo:Yeah, Casey did the first tasting with Amanda. But I just DM'd her on Instagram, and she was really excited to meet, and it all came to life.

42:21Casey Wojtalewicz:So they're both doing items that they have available at their own kind of spaces.

42:26Amanda Perdomo:Zoe's doing two special loaves that are just specific to Canyon, which is the ricotta passion fruit loaf and a carrot date olive oil loaf.

42:37Casey Wojtalewicz:And they're both really, really, really delicious. And then she's also doing the knish that she does at Olive Oil. I'm deeply invested in that knish. That's like the best, best knish I've ever had probably. And then what's Amanda doing? She's doing a cheddar biscuit, cheese cheddar biscuit.

42:53Amanda Perdomo:Yeah. Not dry. Yeah, not dry. It's perfect. It's like perfect.

42:56Ally Walsh:There's like a morning bun.

42:58Amanda Perdomo:Yeah, the hot morning bun. It's like imagine like a perfect glazed donut that's also a cinnamon roll. Yeah. And then she's doing the apple ham pie. Which will be seasonal with sprinkles on top. Wow. It will be seasonal.

43:12Casey Wojtalewicz:The fact that these are two different bakeries in two different boroughs that are now available in the same place, I think is like kind of special in its own way. It's so special.

43:20Amanda Perdomo:Yeah, it's so special. And they're both so talented, and they care so much about what they're doing. They're so invested. I mean, I remember the first day, emailing both of them at the end of the day or like mid-morning, being like, we need to triple everything. And they were like, amazing.

43:36Casey Wojtalewicz:I don't know if I could do that today, but we will do that. Yeah. I mean, since you opened, there's been a big line. I've seen a lot of photos of it in my group chats that people are sending to each other. I'm sure part of that is from the baked goods, and part of that is from, like, the canyon. of it all. Did you expect to have that kind of reaction?

43:53Amanda Perdomo:I don't think so.

43:55Ally Walsh:We just had an intuition. New York's been our biggest market outside of LA for almost 10 years. So we thought, okay, people know us. Some people know us here.

44:04Casey Wojtalewicz:Yeah. And we have some friends here. LA-New York crossover also.

44:08Ally Walsh:That's what I've been most surprised by are the number of people in the cafe who are like, I lived in Echo Park or I lived in LA and I'd moved here two years ago in this neighborhood and I'm so happy you guys are here but there's also, I've met some people who are lifetime New Yorkers who had been ordering our coffee online for years That's cool

44:31Amanda Perdomo:And then someone also came into the shop yesterday and asked, is this a franchise? Oh yeah, I get asked that a lot

44:38Ally Walsh:Is this a chain? And I'm like, who owns this? And I'm like, well, I do

44:43Casey Wojtalewicz:that's that's fun but yeah someone also was like is this all because of that hbo show

44:48Ally Walsh:because like we were featured on i love la yeah that's funny i feel like new yorkers are very

44:54Casey Wojtalewicz:like skeptical for lines so you probably get a wide range of responses like is there a certain point where like you don't want the line to be there um well it does move fast we are yeah i

45:08Amanda Perdomo:I don't know.

45:10Ally Walsh:We wanted to move quick, and honestly, that's how we designed the space. You brought up pour-overs. We built our brand on making pour-overs, but at home. So when we were thinking about what's a canyon cafe, and we were thinking about how do we make an experience that's warm, like, yeah, making a pour-over for someone's warm, but if you're someone who's on your way to work, and you have to wait in line for half an hour, like, that's not a warm experience. And so we thought, let's skip pour overs and just make like really good batch brew. And then that thought process extended to like, it's why we have drinks on tap.

45:45Ally Walsh:It's why we have more than one point of sale. We try to just streamline it. Even like the food, like toast. Like we try to make decisions that help make, enable really quality things, but quick. So I get nervous about the long line.

46:01Amanda Perdomo:Yeah, I get nervous also because the people in New York are really loving the toast program. Yeah. Which I'm—that I'm surprised— It's a very L.A. thing about. Yeah, I didn't think that. Yeah.

46:12Casey Wojtalewicz:Well, I'm born and raised in L.A., but I've lived in New York for almost a decade. So that's why I'm kind of like cross-pollinating in that kind of way. And I think there are certain things that L.A. does that New York doesn't, like the toast, that people want to have something a little heartier in that kind of way. And I think the line, it makes sense that it will move quickly. And I think also maybe some of it is like opening hype that maybe it'll become more regular. But I think that is kind of like a more of a balancing act. Because if you want to be a part of the neighborhood, like, I don't know, like, it's easier to drop in if you feel like, you know, you can just like walk right in as opposed to having to like extend the period of time that you're waiting to get caffeinated.

46:49Casey Wojtalewicz:Yeah, I've already met.

46:50Amanda Perdomo:We are open a week today. And I've already seen a couple people who are regulars who now have come in every single day. Well. With their journal and their book and they get a drip coffee and a pastry and they just sit there for a little bit. It's really nice. That's really nice.

47:06Ally Walsh:I bet it'll be, you know, in L.A., like weekends are the busy, weekends are like a party.

47:11Casey Wojtalewicz:Yeah.

47:11Ally Walsh:And we think that it's mainly weekends are when kind of destination traffic comes. Totally. You know, when people are like, let's take a trip to Echo Park and weekdays, it's a lot of regulars.

47:21Casey Wojtalewicz:Yeah. And you guys are not that far from Prospect Park. So especially like in the warmer weather, it's pretty easy to be like, I'm going to walk by Canyon on my way to go to the park or something else. It can kind of fit into the rhythm of the neighborhood, which is really nice. Yeah.

47:36Ally Walsh:We love Prospect Park. Yeah. I taught Sunny how to ice skate there.

47:41Casey Wojtalewicz:It's like really cute.

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50:23Casey Wojtalewicz:K-pop Demon Hunters, Saja Boys Breakfast Meal, and Huntrix Meal have just dropped at McDonald's. They're calling this a battle for the fans. What do you say to that, Rumi? It's not a battle.

50:33Amanda Perdomo:So glad the Saja Boys could take breakfast and give our meal the rest of the day. It is an honor to share. No, it's our honor. It is our larger honor. No, really. Stop.

50:45Casey Wojtalewicz:You can really feel the respect in this battle. Pick a meal to pick a side.

50:51Zoe Kanan:And participate in McDonald's while supplies last.

50:53Casey Wojtalewicz:I guess I'm curious, maybe it's early days, but do you feel like the customer is different in New York as opposed to L.A.? Or is it kind of same person, different fonts?

51:03Ally Walsh:You know, this is something I thought a lot about. because when we were opening, it was just like almost this token line, like, oh, you know, New Yorkers, they want to get in and get out. You know, they want their coffee, they want to get out. And I was like, I know a lot of New Yorkers, and I think they'd like to just like sit and have a nice meal. So I don't, and I think I've seen that. I've seen people who are like want to get in and get out, and people just like love being able to sit. And there's been beautiful, like there's beautiful weather today and everyone's just sitting on the sidewalk in the sun.

51:39Ally Walsh:Yeah.

51:40Amanda Perdomo:Everyone's been, every interaction I've had at the shop has been so nice. People are not even upset to wait in line. When I bring it up, they say it's not even a big deal. They love sitting outside. They're happy with their food. Yeah. It's been so nice.

51:56Casey Wojtalewicz:Were you passing out little pieces of cake in line? That's a good way to keep everyone happy. We passed out pastries, I think, the first three days. and we best out drip coffee well yeah that's some good hospitality and i think also you picked a good time of year to open because if it was like mid-february you don't want to stand and wait but now everybody is looking for a reason to like soak up some sun and catch up on what we've been

52:17Amanda Perdomo:missing yeah i mean even i think the second day i was like we don't need our outdoor furniture yet we can let's keep that inside and then the next thing i know everyone's sitting outside they don't

52:28Casey Wojtalewicz:even care like it doesn't even matter no especially because we all during the pandemic could only be outside in the middle of winter. So I have all these memories of eating like burritos on the sidewalk in like 25 degree weather because it's the only way that you could eat that food or see your friends. And, you know, it's not like the LA thing where it's like 60 degrees and you think it's cold. It's like 60 degrees and everyone has their jackets off. Yeah. Yeah. I don't mean to like already move you away from the success of this moment, but hearing about how you were thinking about opening locations in LA and having just opened this location in New York, Like, do you want to be expanding in L.A.

53:01Casey Wojtalewicz:in the future? Yeah.

53:04Ally Walsh:Yeah. We have another spot in the works, which we can't really disclose much more. But, like, it's happening. Because it does go. But also more New York. And we're excited to do more New York. But that's definitely further off. But it's really, like, when we think about growing, there's a lot of things that go into it. But we have a lot of great people on our team. And some of those people like working with us. And we want for them to have opportunities to grow. And so you can't do that with one or two shops. So we kind of navigate this idea for growth where the business grows, sure. But it's also opportunities for people to grow.

53:53Ally Walsh:and when it comes to cafes we just think about it's not always just like find a corner spot it's like find a neighborhood that um could use this um kind of community space and food coffee

54:07Casey Wojtalewicz:environment and totally add something i want to play a rapid fire game to close so i'm gonna have you each just tell me the first answer that pops into your head um you guys can like rock paper scissors over who's going to answer first, but we'll keep it consistent. You go first.

54:22Ally Walsh:What, each time? Yeah. Okay. All right. Okay. Ready? Oh, God.

54:27Casey Wojtalewicz:Okay. Your go-to coffee order.

54:31Ally Walsh:Black drip coffee.

54:32Casey Wojtalewicz:Black drip coffee.

54:34Ally Walsh:You've been changing up, though.

54:35Casey Wojtalewicz:I do a cortado sometimes. I also do a cortado sometimes. So good. What kind of milk? I do oat. Oh, not rapid, but what kind of milks do you have available in the cafe here?

54:47Ally Walsh:We use Tash pistachio milk. We use Califia oat milk. We love Kochi oat milk, and so we've been playing with that to bring it in. It's not on yet, but—and we're using Organic Valley whole milk.

55:04Casey Wojtalewicz:It's very L.A. to have the whole milk be the last one that you mentioned. But I love that. And the pistachio milk is so good. I like that brand a lot.

55:12Ally Walsh:It's so good.

55:14Casey Wojtalewicz:Okay, back to Rapid Fire. A favorite cafe that is not one of your own?

55:20Ally Walsh:Love Maru. They're friends.

55:22Casey Wojtalewicz:Yeah, they're great. Elbow bread?

55:25Amanda Perdomo:Sure.

55:26Casey Wojtalewicz:They're like a bakery. I would say, you know, I love La Cabra. How late in the day do you keep drinking coffee?

55:34Ally Walsh:Most days I end at noon. But some days like these when we open, I'm drinking until like 4 or 5.

55:43Casey Wojtalewicz:I try by 11. your go-to breakfast to make for yourself

55:48Ally Walsh:for myself uh i don't make this for myself but like breakfast burrito almond butter toast your favorite ice cream flavor mint chip mint chip mine too

56:05Casey Wojtalewicz:a la spot it could be like a restaurant or a bar cafe or store that you think would be successful opening another location in New York?

56:14Ally Walsh:Wilds.

56:15Amanda Perdomo:I was going to say Wilds. I love them. Gotcha. I would say I love Queen Street. I think they'd be great here.

56:25Casey Wojtalewicz:Okay, and then the reverse, a New York spot that you think should open something in L.A.

56:31Ally Walsh:Raff's.

56:33Casey Wojtalewicz:I love Leo's. The pizza place? The pizza spot. Oh, yeah. Okay, before I do the final question, When you mentioned Mario, it made me think about the fact that you guys are both L.A. coffee shops that opened in New York recently. Did you guys get, like, any tips or, like, talk to them before you opened your location?

56:49Amanda Perdomo:Yeah. We're friends with Junmo. Yeah. And Jacob.

56:53Ally Walsh:But I don't think we asked them anything.

56:54Amanda Perdomo:No, I talked with Junmo.

56:56Ally Walsh:What did you ask him?

56:56Amanda Perdomo:He was just, like, excited for us. He was like, it's great. He's like, it's great. There's room. There's room. Yeah. We drink coffee. There's a lot of people in New York, and they all drink coffee. That was exactly his. and he was just like it's you guys are gonna do so well it's a great place to be yeah that's cute

57:13Ally Walsh:i asked jacob if they're gonna roast out here a plan too and he was like i'm not sure are you

57:19Casey Wojtalewicz:so like we kind of been chatting about it yeah so far are you just bringing stuff over from la

57:24Ally Walsh:yeah yeah we're actually freighting it and then distributing locally um since we also have those wholesale accounts yeah and so we want to start roasting out here i think it's just a matter of

57:36Casey Wojtalewicz:time yeah well maybe like the la people can squat up and do something that's what we would do it's

57:41Ally Walsh:we're kind of that's kind of how we roll you know in la we have so we have other coffee companies to use our facility too totally yeah okay final question is a fictional food scene like from a

57:53Casey Wojtalewicz:book or a movie or something made up that you wish you could magically eat in real life okay

57:59Amanda Perdomo:Mine would be from Moonstruck, the movie, the big chaotic dinner scenes. I feel it's so New York. It's so romantic. I love that movie. And you've been spending time in Brooklyn Heights, so that makes sense. It's perfect. Yeah.

58:16Ally Walsh:I'm like really bad at these. Casey's so bad at this. But I thought of two. But this isn't food. My first one is Twin Peaks when the detective tells the sheriff he should give himself a present every day. And it's a cup of coffee.

58:29Casey Wojtalewicz:You want to have that? At the diner, yeah. Yeah.

58:30Ally Walsh:And so, and I'm just so bad. I can't even remember my favorite movie. I would say just being Brad Pitt in Ocean's Eleven because he's always eating. He's always munching on something.

58:42Casey Wojtalewicz:This is a creative interpretation of the final question. But I will.

58:46Ally Walsh:Yeah, so much rapid fire.

58:47Casey Wojtalewicz:We're just like pontificating. This has been so great. Thank you both for coming on the show and congratulations on the opening. Thank you so much.

58:56Ally Walsh:Thanks so much. Thanks for having us.

58:58Casey Wojtalewicz:Yeah, thank you.

59:03Casey Wojtalewicz:This is Taste is hosted and produced by Matt Rodbard and me, Eliza Abarbanil. The show is edited by lead producer Clayton Gumbert and supervised by Pat Stango, director of media production and development at Penguin Random House. Thanks to Shalia Harris and the production team at Penguin Random House. Theme music by Steve Rydell. Episode portraits by Louise Zergang Pomeroy. Logo design by Ellie Skurzat and Ian Dingham. Visit Taste Online at tastecooking.com and make sure to subscribe to our newsletter to keep updated on all cool things in the world of taste.

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