778: Shirley Chung Has So Much to Say

29:36And nobody could. No one got an externship. Because we had a very bad reputation. I'm sorry. I love my school, but apparently back then— Because there was CIA in Napa, CIA out east, Johnson & Wales, all that stuff. Yeah, so nobody—they wouldn't take CCA students. And then so I—so for a while—after I heard that, because I already scored my externship with David Denko because I'd been struggling with them, right? And then once I hear all students start talking about it, I'm like, really? They wouldn't take anybody? but I was the best out of my four classes of our year, right? And I have so many recommendations that are from every single chef that, from my school.

30:21So I send that, host that. I mean, overachiever, you know, Asian best student, A minus is B's for mentality. So I sent everything in, didn't hear anything. And I called every day, didn't hear anything back. So I started driving to the French Laundry after school from San Francisco every single day to try to meet with someone. And I did it after two weeks. You're knocking on the kitchen door of French Laundry? Yeah, I'll be the culinary school student. Please don't advise. Do not ever wear your uniform to any restaurants. chef coat uniforms to keep in a restaurant and school if you go anywhere else outside, put in something business.

31:08Yeah, business suit, of course. That's a great advice. Let me ask you, did you dine at French Laundry? Yes, I did. You were like, because you had some money obviously, so you were like I'm just going to dine here a lot. I'm just going to start becoming, but then you're like I'm actually a chef. Well, no. I actually dined there before I became a chef. Ah, I see, I see, I see. So I was a nerd that showed up in my silly uniform. Oh yeah, oh yeah. You had the Coke on. Oh my God. The handkerchief. Everything. Oh God. Showing up two weeks straight. And finally, the AMC chef, Mark Hopper, he's still my very good friend to this day.

31:49And he came out, he's like, what's your deal? I'm like, hi, chef. And he's just like, why are you dressed like this? This is so bad. He's just like, But I see you. So for two weeks now. Okay. And then I saw an interview. That was the interview. And then I got in. You got in. So you got your externship at French Laundry. French Laundry. And then working in Busan. Oh, great. And then, like, Busan was my first paying job. Wow. In the restaurant industry. Yeah. I was working at the oyster bar. Yeah. And then I opened oyster for June Ae Chao. Oh, my gosh. My first week of my employment. Oh, my gosh.

32:34What was her response? Was she cool? She was super cool. But the whole time, because it was Bouchon Yangville, I had to look at her. So the whole time, I cannot help myself, but staring at her and shucking with her. With no look shucking? And then after that, I was like, did she eat it? Did she eat it? I'm sure she did. Oh, yes. She did. She did. She did. Okay. So you're at Bouchon. you're up there in Napa Valley what's the next move for you? Well, Bouchon was opening in Vegas. Okay. And I had been to Vegas many times for CES, for conference for gambling. You play little cards? Oh, my family did.

33:17Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? So I was a stranger from Vegas and I actually love Vegas. So when they said that, oh, we're going to open in Vegas, I was like, okay, shopping I don't gamble that much but I was like oh it's going to be so much fun but I also knew opening is such a great experience for any chef and for Chef Thomas Keller for TK so I was like how can I sign up and then they're like you want to go to Vegas I was like yeah and then they're like you want to move to Vegas I was like I'm not sure if permanently I was like but they were like okay but if you go you have to be year for minimum one year.

33:57Wow. And I'm like, okay. I was like, but if I want to come back, can I come back? Yeah. Definitely. Good deal. One year minimum. You can deal with it. What's that like? Amazing. I mean, like, I was a young cook. Yeah. Open for Thomas Hillary, Vegas. Yeah. And then I was offered a chef de party position. Wow. Very cool. Still running an oyster bar, but chef de party position. Yeah, you're working up the line. And then Anthony Bourdain came to Vegas to shoot his first episode of No Reservation. No way. He did make—you're in it? I was in it! That's so— Did you ever look back? I was an oyster girl.

34:42And then telling Anthony—well, telling on camera that we have lots of—and also long call of oysters from England, then lady from Maine, and introducing an oyster program. I have like 30 seconds of air time. Wow. On first ever episode of No Reservation. So, I mean, he has written about that in his memoirs about that early days. It was him and Chris and Lydia just shooting three people, very like rough. What was he like during that shoot? Was he cool? He was super cool. Yeah, yeah. I was nervous as hell because my chef, Mark Hopper, my grand sous chef, he became the corporate chef. He became the chef of Bouchon, Las Vegas.

35:23he was camera shy so he even didn't want me to do it it was my day off and he called me in he just said sure we have to film this I'm like what? and then he just said you're the perfect person be on camera I was like so that was that was your big TV debut and you've done like literally hundreds of hours of television to this day so this was your debut take us forward in time post-Bushan Las Vegas where do you end up? this episode is brought to you by Rula Therapy is absolutely great Finding a therapist who takes your insurance is the opposite of absolutely great It can actually be a nightmare Those two facts have coexisted for too long RULA is the fix With over 100 insurance plans, an average copay of$15 And you're matched to a therapist who is actually right for you Not just whoever has an opening Someone aligned with your goals, your background, and what you actually need And appointments are available as soon as tomorrow.

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37:02See associate or lowes.com for details. Freak work. So post-Busang Vegas, I went on to work for a piece of law. Because a piece of law came to Vegas to open. And by then, Chihay used to send all the sushi to France, to train. So I'm like, hey, if he's coming, then I'm going to go work for him because, you know. You're going to learn the moves and not have to move to rural France. Correct. Yeah. So I went on to work for a piece of water. And then from that, I realized the Uber, find that me, I was freezer and all that is not my thing. I mean, my personality is very loud. Yeah. And in those kind of French kitchen, I was so quiet.

37:46I probably barely said anything. Was it a tough kitchen? Yeah, it was a tough kitchen. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, because it was like growing pain a little bit. Because that was their thing. They tried to make a market in America. So nobody was allowed to touch any of their old dishes. So we had a dish from the 1970s. You know what I mean? But as a young chef, I would say... This is dusty. Yeah. Yeah, this is like a dusty style cooking. Yeah, there was definitely a lot of those guys aged out. Yeah, I was at Cornell, miniature Cornell, like this. Oh, really? I still remember. Fifteen miniature Cornell for half a...

38:30On one plate? Uh-huh, for half a lobster. That's like... Fifteen! How many turns is that of the... Like, that's like probably... Seven turns, but it was like small as your pantry. 7.15, that's like, you know, 100 turns per plate. Yeah. That's not fun. Oh, my God. That's not fun. And then nobody would do it. Even my chef wouldn't do it. So, like, I was the only one because I was very quick. Yeah, your wrist must have been sore. Yeah, and then so I was at fish station forever and everywhere because, you know, I don't know, Asian fish station. But, I mean, this made you a great chef. I mean, those reps working with Keller, working with Guy Savoy.

39:07I mean, even though the food is not you. Is there a moment, take us forward a little bit. Is there a moment like when you start actually cooking some of your own food? All right. So after this of the law, I opened a couple of Italian restaurants. And then Jose Andres had handed me to open Cino Cabano. Oh, cool. And that was half Chinese, half Mexican. And before that, even though I'm Chinese heritage, but I never formally trained on any Chinese cuisine other than watching my grandmother cook, watching my chef growing up cooking a kitchen, all that, that was more a full memory. But Jose sort of empowered me, and he pushed me to do all the R &D for Chinese cuisine in Sino-Toblano.

39:55And even though I tell him, I'm like, hey, you have to realize that my Chinese food is from my grandmother. And he's like, it's okay. And then so I learned how to use professional walk and do all that with my shoe chef. Because she was actually a seasoned traditional Chinese chef for 17 years. So she taught me how to walk professionally. I mean, I'm always very good at fire control. I understand the science behind it. The scale of it was correct. The physical, how to actually use it and all that was for my shoe chef. And then, but even Shio Problano is very much like sort of me and Jose's mind collaborating, right?

40:37And then I wasn't very sure about exactly who I am as a chef. That's why for the longest time that being working and opening restaurants for all the celebrity chefs in Vegas, and that I open every single restaurant that I work for. So I had a reputation as opener, but also shadow chef because I was very good at translating my boss's vision. And create based on what they believe in. Until Top Chef 11. I know it sounds very cheesy, but truthfully, I found who I was as a chef and my style cooking when I was cooking. In front of millions of people. Because you had been working for Andres at that point.

41:22You got the interview to audition. You obviously are great on camera, so they book you for the show, Top Chef 11. What's it like going into that competition and realizing that this is a real competition? I mean, you're competitive, right? Yeah, I am competitive. But at the same time, I didn't really prepare the competition as much as everybody else on the show, in a way. that I actually said no to Top Chef before because I felt like I was already exactly the chef, in Vegas, writing multi-million restaurants. Why do I need to be on Top Chef? But then I ended up doing it. And then, so there's many way of competitors.

42:06So I remember many of chefs from my season, everybody sitting here studying, memorizing recipes and all that. and then to be, to complete better. Be ready, right. Be ready. And then for me, I was creating. Every single challenge, I was making something that I never made before. That's incredible. And then I also realized that sometimes I try to make something I made before, like a proven recipe. I would be good, but I never win the challenge. It's all the challenges I create on the spot. Those were the ones that were the winners. And then I cook with my instant. And then the recipe just flow. those are the winners.

42:46And then I realized that, I was like, oh, so it doesn't matter what kind of technique I use, right? I use French technique, Italian, or even Mexican, you know, because I make molets and all that, right? I understand the tar, the fire, all that. But I'm always coming back to Chinese flavor. Or sort of a version of my heritage, my culture, Sometimes not even in a flavor, but it's a feel of that, right? So I'm like, so I cook modern American cuisine because anything whole, I have so many knowledge, but I have a Chinese soul. It translates to very modern food. And this is back, at season 11, what is the year?

43:31What are we talking about? 12? 2014. 14. So that's like a while ago before. 12 years, exactly ago. It's many years ago before we're at now. I mean, it was very progressive to take Chinese flavors, but also translate it for the modern American kitchen. Yeah. Really, really smart stuff. You get runner-up. I was runner-up. What was it like not to win? Was it really hard? Yeah. It's hard, right? It's hard. Who won that year? That year was Naomi. You get runner-up. The show is big. It opens up opportunities. Do you go back to Andres and keep working with him? No. Well, actually, tell you the truth, by the time Topstack cast me for the very first time, I already left Andre's.

44:13Got it. So you had already known that by the time you're on the show. Yeah. And that time now, I was in Vegas for over 12 years. Damn. Yeah. Bury the lead. The whole time, I'm always like, every year, I want to come back to California. Every year, I want to come back to California. So I was actually already quit Cine Poblano and then left Cosmo Polygon Hotel and getting ready to move back to California. Is that when they opened the Cosmo? Yeah. That's like three years after the Cosmo. Yeah, but it was still like very, I mean, Cosmo's still very good. And then so Top Chef was filming Top Chef Master during that year and then all the producers and chefs all come to Cine Poblano to eat and fell in love with my food.

44:58So they immediately went back to look for me. But that time that I already left, so Cosmo was telling them that, oh, Sherry will come back, but I wasn't coming back. And then so they were eating Chef Blanco, and then the manager over there goes, hi, just want to let you know, Chef Sherry's not coming back. And then they were like, what? So the manager got the information for me. Oh, that's cool. And then gave it to me. But during that time, there were so many people were telling me, Topstripe is looking for you. I was like, okay, what does that mean? What do I do? Okay, well, what do I find that they're looking for?

45:34Yeah. There were no dropping in DMs at that time. No, there was not that. And then so I was like, but I ended up, so I went to China. And then they were like, we want to interview you. I was like, what? And so the day after I came back from Beijing, I flew to LA and then did an interview. And then the second day, they announced the cast. And then I was going to cast. I was like, oh, so they really wanted to cast me. That's how you found out. You found out from the public announcement. That's incredible. The second day. Yeah, the second day. I was the last person to interview. Yeah, they wanted, they needed you.

46:12So post-top chef, you have this very, very great opportunity to do your own food. So what do you, you have like, you could live in Vegas still. You could move wherever. Where do you decide to take your career? Well, I moved back to California. Yeah, you finally get back. Yeah. I opened my first restaurant called 28, because 28 was the age that I started cooking. And then Modern Chinese in Orange County. I was there for two years. And then Top Shrek called me again. Then I went on Top Shrek season 14. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Runner up again. Oh my gosh. Against Brooke Williamson, which is still very, very close.

46:52Brooke's good. That's a good one to lose to. That's a good one to lose to. was that like masters or just you just top step it was also all-stars that's what they call it yeah wow I mean that's what I'm saying you're like a winner I I'm almost winner and then that almost winner my whole like the James Harden you're like the almost winner yeah I'm always winner right even because I was in track and field for me up I was ethics yeah obviously but my competitor everything all my character right? So I was a second field and I'm always number two in my school. Everything! And there was a goal. She ended up becoming a professional runner but she's always number one.

47:34But when it comes to team challenge a relay, I was always a captain so my team to this day still held my high school record of 4x100 relays. So I can win like a team environment But individually, I'm always a runner. I'm always a runner up my whole life. Yeah. I mean, runner up is pretty good on Top Chef. And as everyone knows, I mean, kitchen's our team operation. So the fact that you were on winning teams makes sense. I mean, let's talk about Miss Chi Cafe. This is where you grew great acclaim. Yeah. This restaurant. You had to close it. I'm sure that was difficult. Tell me about the legacy of Miss Chi Cafe.

48:19Well, Mishy, it was in Hoover City. It was in a very huge neighborhood. We were on the world's record of, fitness record of the shortest main street. We are a main street restaurant. And so it was, once I got into the location, I fell in love. But at the same time, I realized this is something that I shouldn't, it needs to be a neighborhood restaurant. It needs to have a queer community. and nothing, like I want my food to be loved by a mass. And then so, and then for me, I grew up making dumplings as a kid since five years old. As a northern China kid, that's like a mandatory thing that we've been practicing for dumplings with our family as a little kid.

49:07And I'm very good at making dumplings. And then I just felt like for that community and what we need is a handmade dumpling noodle place that's family-friendly, so all my neighbors can come in and then enjoy everything. So I opened the sheet with a menu that everything I love to eat was comfort food. I love boba cheese, so we have a boba cheese program. And all the house-made dumplings and the house-made noodles and all this kind of slightly, I hate to say elevated comfort food, but in a way, yeah. I mean, L.A., Culver City, you need to have, like, that kind of energy. A lot of, like, families live over there.

49:49It's a big, you know, Sony's there. You got, like, some interesting things happening there. And it clearly worked. Yeah. It's a popular restaurant. Yeah, popular restaurant. And then we have so many, like, correct. Like, I just remember that we have, I don't have children on my own, but I love kids. I love the energy. And I just remember that we always have so many children coming in to celebrate their birthdays. and then come in on the weekend and then every single kid had their favorite dumpling and they would tell me and we have like moshi donuts and we have like chocolate bao. So like made with a hedgehog.

50:24So like things that's like sort of like fulfill my childhood dream kind of a restaurant. That's where I open. You close it to have, to go through treatment. You film this very dramatic and extremely cool video announcing your diagnosis. Talk about that going on social. You have a big following and you had it then. What was that like to shave your head on Instagram? Well, that's more of, I think, to shave my head on Instagram is for me to gain my control back. So from diagnosis for tongue cancer and then be able to get treatment and then made the decision of moving to Chicago to focus on myself and then went through chemo.

51:16And then in a way that I was going through motion. And then because I was very busy on figuring out what's going on, I saved my own life. And my life was just built out of control in a way. I was very focused on everything else. And I remember the thing that I felt like crushed me was the moment that I saw my hair start falling off by a handful. And for some reason, it hit me harder than my diagnosed. I was so depressed. Yeah. And then at that moment that I hadn't shown many people yet. Yeah. I was going through my chemo treatment already. but I had to turn down television and I wasn't showing up at work anymore and I pretty much disappeared from social media and I even had a hard time telling my parents so I was going through that and at the same time I feel like no, I have a responsibility and I feel like many people want to know exactly what happened to me.

52:33Like I told my team in my kitchen, but at the same time that knowing that I have to close my restaurant, so I have to tell my community that there's responsibility first. And then so, but at the same time that for me to shave off my head, And that was, we decided to shave my head, but I wasn't going to shave it off myself. I was going to ask my, I had my friend coming, my husband was going to shave all the head together. But the moment that I sit down in front of the camera and then had the shaver in my hand, all of a sudden I felt like I have control now. And I'm going to shave off my hair first.

53:24And then this is for me to take control back from cancer. I control my destiny. I'm going to control how I look and how I feel. And I'm going to take that back from cancer. It was therapeutic and powerful. And the message was clear that you weren't going to let it defeat you. It obviously was closing the restaurant was a hurdle. Yeah. But it's powerful. You spoke to people who are also in treatment, survivors. I'm sure you really gave a lot of people hope. And here we are today. You have two restaurants. You're back in the game. I mean, how the hell do you end up in Dallas? Well, okay, that's also years of building from Las Vegas.

54:11So my business partner, Andy Hooper, we met when we opened Carlino, the Italian statehouse in Vegas together. I was CDC and he was AGM. So we're all kind of coming at the same level. Burn a house, back a house. Correct. Similar up and coming. Yep. Yeah. And then when I opened Cina Pagano, she moved to New York, worked for Brigham. But then his wife wants to move back to Vegas, so he was looking for a position. And then I was looking for AGM. So we come back to him and I hired him, moved him back from New York, back to Vegas. And then he worked for me for, I'd say, three days. And he said one week.

54:57But he quit on me after I moved him. And I looked at him and I was like, I was so mad. I didn't talk to him for a week. And then later, I thought about it. Like he came back, he's just like, chef, I really have to tell you that. Like, I love you very much. thank you for this opportunity, but I'm used to Buddha Kong. I'm used to Carnegie Mellon, more fine dining. Here is Shino Pablamo, we're doing 1 ,500 covers a day, 1 ,500. And she's like, that's not a style of service I'm used to. I'm overwhelmed, and then I just feel like if we strike on, it's going to ruin friendship. I'm like, okay, I'm mad at you, but at the same time I really think this is very honest.

55:42I appreciate our community we'd be able to communicate and I also appreciate you'd be very straightforward I'm okay now and then we were like okay so one day we should open a 590 Chinese restaurant and he just said yeah and then so we'd be like back and forth and joke about this for the last 19 years and then just joking like on the untext and like we gotta do that we gotta do that restaurant we gotta do that restaurant correct and then and then later on that she bought a property in Dallas about four years ago. Then he just said, hey, we can build our Chinese restaurant. Four years ago. He did pretty well for GM buying properties.

56:22Well, then he opened a restaurant in Vegas and then he opened a restaurant in Dallas. And then he just said he bought a property and then he just said, chef, we have this. But it took him four years. It was permitting and everything. So I kind of forgot about it. Not forgot about it, but it was just I put it all behind. And then I got cancer. Then she wasn't very sure. Then last year, I filmed CLC, and then I announced on social media that I'm going to return back to work. I'm about to roll out a new business in LA, a community, a meal prep. I'm ready, right? And then so Andy's wife shot that post.

57:04And then at that time, that they were getting ready to open this fine dining Chinese in Dallas. And then they were looking, so Andy said, I'm going to call Shirley. And then, but they weren't sure. And all of a sudden, Jan, the wife, saw my social media. Shirley's ready. Call her ready. Ready. She's going to be taken. Yeah. Shirley's going to be scooped up by somebody. Then she called. She was like, hey, remember our joke? And I'm like, yeah, where's your restaurant? Right? And then she's just like, guess what, chef? We finished building. I'm like, really? And then, like, a week later, I flew to Dallas and checked it out and fell in love.

57:46I'm so, like, inspired and energized and impressed with this, like, turn of events. You know, you're shaving your head on Instagram not too far ahead. And then, all of a sudden, you're opening restaurants in Dallas. Yes. You really clearly have found you've got your groove back. Yes. That's amazing. But I feel this is only the start. I feel the same. Because now I should say I'm 2.0 now, right? Yeah. And I run through all this challenge. And for me, I never thought I was a victim. I knew somehow that I knew that I would live, I would win, I would beat cancer. And after all the challenges I went through, because Chinese have a saying.

58:39Chinese have a saying saying that the universe, oh God, when they want to give you or reward you, wants to give you a big responsibility, they have to push you through a series of tests. Make sure that you be able to handle everything they can give to you. Once you pass the test, then they will hand you the responsibility or the reward, however, your next thing to you. So when I got cancer, I actually had that feeling. I'm like, God sent me through this. I have to go through this challenge because I know I'm a winner. I know how to win. Once I come out. You'll be rewarded. Correct. That's an incredible mindset.

59:20Where do you want to be in five years? Where do I want to be? Yeah, with your career. I mean, I want to have an empire of my restaurant. I'm a restaurant chef. I mean, I love television. I think I'm great at it. But at the same time, the restaurant, leading team, just working in the kitchen. Look at my arm. Yeah, you got some marks. I still have marks, and I'm very proud of it. Yeah, yeah. And so I want to continue to be in food. But at the same time, I want to continue to follow my dumpling business. I want to bring that back. And perhaps I want to have a retail brand in supermarket everywhere.

59:58So for my version of Chinese American frozen dumplings in supermarket. I've been working on that project even before my cancer already. So now I feel like— You're picking it back up. Correct. I want to be even more seriously pursuing that. So I just love food and I want to continue to be in this. You love food. You love the community of it. You love the business aspects. I think you love all elements. Well, I also love, it sounds crazy, but I always feel like I work better under stress. So even that control chaos craziness, I love it. I buy it. Maybe it's not the healthiest thing for some people, but you clearly, it makes sense for you.

1:00:41I can't wait to visit your restaurants in Dallas and I know you'll open in LA again. I just know it. It's just like, it's going to happen and it'll be a big story. and I really want to have you back on. Where is Daredevil? I'm right here. Don't miss the return of Marvel Television's Daredevil Born Again. So what's next? I've been liberated. We're going to take this city back. Over Medicaid. In an all new season now streaming only on Disney+. They're hunting us. It's time we started hunting them. I can work with them. This should be tons of fun. Marvel Television's Daredevil, Born Again, now streaming only on Disney+.

1:01:24On This Is Taste, we ask guests about their discerning taste. So to close this interview, here's a little rapid-fire Fast and Furious taste check. Shirley, are you ready? Yes, let's hope. Worst vegetable? Beets. I can barely pronounce it now. Beets. Beets, yeah. No need. No, especially roasted. No. What is your typical breakfast? My typical breakfast now is, every day, large avocado blended with fair life 42-gram high-protein shake with two tablespoons of collagen and one whole cup of wheat yogurt and a half cup of blueberry. Every day. That is incredible. For cancer recovery. It sounds delicious, too.

1:02:11Protein, fiber, everything, name it. And that's normally one of my biggest meals of the day. Yeah, it's to start very big and then you kind of taper down. Yeah. Does it taste good? Taste, it's okay. Yeah, it's like, you know. It's avocado. It's for health, you know. Correct, correct. The best dessert. The best dessert.

1:02:35I'm a dessert person. I love everything but now with everything going on I want to say more like creme mousse creme ballet custard and all that would be something that I can always eat so much that's amazing a restaurant you wish you could bring back from the dead stars are you gonna are you gonna bring it back from the dead what I feel like if anyone was to answer this question I would be like okay fine but like for you just the way you talk about your drive and your smarts You could probably ring up Jeremiah. Oh, I just have. I mean. Goosebumps. Yeah, goosebumps. That would be a dream, right?

1:03:16Yeah. Especially San Francisco. Wow. Yeah, for SF, it'd be cool to have a new take on that old classic name. You're up for it. I know you are. Well, my Chinese name is Moon. Moon, I'm sorry. Just say it. There you go. when you're craving fast food where are you going uh huh okay McDonald's chicken McNugget sweet and sour sauce that's always my go to sweet and sour since I was 8 years old sweet and sour is my next one and fish oh filetro fish dude those two things that's my favorite you got my orders there oh really oh I love McDonald's it's a very pro McDonald's yeah I'm also I'm also like you know the myth the wrong chicken McNugget tastes better yes I Like the ones, then the ones that look better.

1:04:05When they're perfectly round, there's satisfaction that they actually feel like they've been thought through as opposed to the ones with the random nut on it. Yeah. I think you're onto something. I've thought about this before. Also, what do you think about temperature with Chicken McNuggets? Do they have to be really hot or does it matter? Yes, hot. Because the batter, why I love chicken McNugget versus other nuggets, is the batter of my Donald batter is almost lighter than tempura is. So hot temperature is definitely necessary. Agree fully. Tempura. I'm going to put that away and bring that up again.

1:04:40The McNugget is a very tempura-like batter. So smart. Two more. Your favorite city outside America to visit for food? Singapore. Oh, wow. Cool. Nice. Do you go back? Yeah, I mean, my husband is Singaporean. Yeah, yeah. So we used to go every other year. Yeah, oh, that's a good one. But also a big melting pot. You can get everything, all flavors, international. Yeah. All done so well, so Singapore. Last one, your favorite sandwich. Is this something, because we talked about the bread. So like crusty bread is not necessarily working. Not anymore. But softer bread sandwiches? Or are you not into sandwiches anymore?

1:05:25Well, actually, sandwich is easier for me to eat with a soft bread, so pocaccia bread and all that. Yeah, yeah. But I love which is Chinese. It's an English muffin-like sandwich that has hot pork belly and whatever it means and you stuff it inside. It's like an English muffin. It's like a split top. Yeah. So like... Grittled? A ripus. Yeah, whizzle on top, and then the stuff it was minced meat at the top. So I used to make a version of that, instead of the brown milk. But when it comes to a sandwich, for me, that would be my ultimate sandwich. The sandwich is at Xi 'an Famous in New York? Yes, yes, yes.

1:06:05That's what that is, right? Correct, correct, correct. That is great. I love that sandwich. But you can also put all different versions. You can put a fried egg. You can put anything in there with the Chinese chopped meat, really. It's like You know chopped cheese But like Chinese Chinese chopped cheese Totally agree And like I love That griddled bread I need to get one of those We get she and you're here Shirley Will you come back On the show Of course You're invited Whenever I'd love to have you Back in the year It was so much fun To keep talking Thank you so much For joining This is Taste Thank you for having me

1:06:41This is Taste Is hosted and produced By Eliza Abarbanal And me Matt Rodbar The show is edited by lead producer Clayton Gumbert and supervised by Pat Stango, director of media production and development at Penguin Random House. Thanks to Shalia Harris and the production team at Penguin Random House. Theme music by Steve Rydell. Episode portraits by Louise Zergon Pomeroy. Logo design by Ellie Skirzat and Ian Dingham. Visit Taste Online at tastecooking.com And make sure to subscribe to our newsletter to keep updated on all cool things in the world of taste.