782: Whole Foods Buyers Never Sit Still. We Followed Them to Spain.

14:32AnaMaria Friede:Do they have a benchmark brand on the shelf? Do they want to be merchandised as a premium brand, price points, what they're looking for, and then how they want to grow. If they want to start in a small group of stores, if they want to start in a region, or if they wanted to just go nationwide, understanding that, of course, there are implications with that because of velocity.

14:58Julia Merid:What if they don't know all those answers? What if there's one, they don't know where they want to be in the store? Is that a red flag or do you work with them?

15:08AnaMaria Friede:We have worked with them in the past. And of course, now we have local foragers. That is basically the continuation of that. What I used to do in the region, now we have local foragers and now category merchants who are subject matter experts in their categories and can also support emerging brands to figure out better ways to launch their products.

15:32Julia Merid:So Local Foragers, the Whole Foods market, like internal lexicon, what does that mean exactly, a Local Forager?

15:38AnaMaria Friede:They are our local agents in the field. They look for local products that might be needed in a category. They partner with the category merchants to identify wide spaces in the categories. and they help us to either source for new products or they're the ones who bring us products that we haven't seen yet.

16:02Julia Merid:They're like scouts.

16:04AnaMaria Friede:Yes, they are.

16:04Julia Merid:They're scouts. So is that a full-time position or is that kind of like on the side? How does that work exactly?

16:10AnaMaria Friede:It is a full position.

16:11Julia Merid:Wow. So they're like the ones who are probably listening to our podcast perhaps or reading food media, like talking to chefs.

16:18AnaMaria Friede:Yes.

16:18Julia Merid:So interesting. I got to talk to a local forager. It's such an interesting role. It's very cool. Really broad question, but you're really a great, you're equipped to answer it. How has grocery changed in the past, well, I'm going to say 20 years. I know your time at Whole Foods has been around that. Broadly speaking, how has it changed?

16:40AnaMaria Friede:Yeah, I think that customers are looking for more variety in our shelves. They, especially after COVID, they want to mimic what they experience in restaurants and bring those dishes and ingredients back home and experiment with those ingredients. So that has changed definitely the way that we source products today, the way that we merchandise products today. We at Whole Foods create different promotions that allow customers to discover new products. We have theme events, like if you went in other stores back in March, you probably experienced the Mediterranean event. So you were able to find some Mediterranean favorites in the perimeter of the aisle, but also some of the favorites in the center store, like some unique pasta, pasta sauces, the Parmigiano Reggiano that everyone loves.

17:40Julia Merid:Oh, yeah.

17:40AnaMaria Friede:So we continue to develop those experiences when customers come to Whole Foods.

17:47Julia Merid:Yeah, so big events and mostly hearing the importance of restaurants because you're hearing or meat food media at that. Customers are reading about certain trends, salsa matcha, yuzu, gojujang. They're reading about these products, but they want to actually cook with them.

18:03AnaMaria Friede:Yes. So at Whole Foods, we set new trends for the market. we announce those new trends always towards the end of the year yeah and those are trends that are category merchants spot first and and then when we share them out um you know we share them with our customers and we connect our customers with the newest trends yeah it's fun that you

18:27Julia Merid:have this apparatus every year this trends report and i know you put a lot of time what's it like

18:31AnaMaria Friede:building that trends report oh it is it is a great process but it's like what you were saying before or like the importance of having chefs in restaurants kind of dictating in some ways what we bring to market. So that process is that. So we have category merchants spotting trends at food events like Fancy Food Show, Expo West. We also have our local foragers seeing what else is out there in the local fields. and then restaurants and chefs, sometimes they have some new ingredients that they're experimenting with or there are some cuisines that are coming to the market where customers feel like, you know, that's something that they want to experiment.

19:19Julia Merid:Do you feel when you identify these trends, these are national trends? Because you imagine that the New York customer may be different from like the Madison, Wisconsin customer and San Diego customer, but also maybe not.

19:31AnaMaria Friede:I think that the trends could be nationwide because of social media also being a big part or component of how these trends are created. And social media is available everywhere.

19:44Julia Merid:Yeah, I mean, of course, everyone's reading about particular brands that are buzzy or new categories. And honestly, I could chat all day about your job. It's so fascinating. but I think we've come to the time where we are going to crack this jar of you know this Gilda that you spotted at the market it was really cool just like chatting with the merchant there and seeing this really unique product what do you think now that you're seeing it in our studio

20:18AnaMaria Friede:it looks a little bit cloudy because when we have it in the bars or in the restaurants, it feels like it's more, or it's been seen like more bright or brighter. It looks more cloudy on the jar, but let's see how it tastes.

20:35Julia Merid:Yeah, let's see. You want to crack it open? Sure. All right, let's try this. I think, yeah. All right. It's got a little bit of seal. Okay, it's got a little seal there. Okay, we're opening it up. Okay, so it's cool. You open it up and the toothpicks are sticking out.

20:50AnaMaria Friede:It looks more appealing when it's out of the jar, for sure.

20:53Julia Merid:Yeah, it definitely feels, I mean, it's really nice. The composition is really cool. I mean, it's got three olives, the pepper, and then, of course, the anchovy. Let's try it. Well, you can tell that it has been preserved for a while. Yeah.

21:09AnaMaria Friede:So it's definitely more salty and more acidic.

21:13Julia Merid:I ate the whole thing. You were very modest and went piece by piece, and I just went full thing. i'll say that the olive is very good for me the anchovy is maybe not as strong as i would have hoped if it if i was getting it at a restaurant i don't know what you what do you think yeah it's

21:34AnaMaria Friede:about the freshness right off the olives that we have tried versus yeah what is it it's called

21:40Julia Merid:in conserva here in spain yeah i um i think the format is what's most interesting if you can buy a pre-speared Gilda with all the components. And really, I can imagine this is for entertaining. You pull it out and you have your plate of 10 Gildas available for your friends.

22:03AnaMaria Friede:Yes. So yeah, I spread it in the vinegar that they use to preserve it. I don't know what it is, but.

22:10Julia Merid:Yeah.

22:12AnaMaria Friede:Doesn't taste the same. Not the same experience. If you want to bring what we were saying, the restaurant back home.

22:17Julia Merid:Yeah.

22:18AnaMaria Friede:It's not quite the same.

22:21Julia Merid:Exactly. And I think that's probably a big part of your work is when products are promising that restaurant experience and they miss the mark a little bit during your tastings. You're reading it right now. What do you see on the label? I'm just checking and see if it has any preservatives or which they do.

22:39AnaMaria Friede:I mean, it does. No, I think that it's just the preservative. If everything else is what you see.

22:45Julia Merid:Does it feel clean? Would it pass Whole Foods standards by spot?

22:48AnaMaria Friede:No, it wouldn't.

22:49Julia Merid:It would not. That's another part, obviously, is your rigorous guidelines. And that's a big part of your job.

22:57AnaMaria Friede:Yes. That's something that we continue to do at Whole Foods, making sure that we continue delivering the standards that we promise our customers.

23:05Julia Merid:So when you see a product in the marketplace that's cool and maybe even more successful than this, but you see that it might have that one or two items in the ingredient list that don't fit your standards. What do you do? It seems like it might be a tough position to be in.

23:20AnaMaria Friede:So, I mean, the different answers here, because if it's a product that we like and we definitely want it at Whole Foods, we work with the supplier to make sure that they source a different ingredient. And I can give you an example of a product that we have on the shelves. It's Somos and it's actually the salsa matcha. When they developed the product the first time, it had, I believe, some canola oil or some oil that was not the one that we wanted them to have. And we challenged them to use avocado oil in the salsa matcha. And they did. They reformulated the product. I mean, the product met our standards from the get-go, but we wanted to make sure that we were using oils that customers were asking us to use at the time.

24:13AnaMaria Friede:And that product has been successful.

24:16Julia Merid:Huge success also, Matcha. And I'm sure they received your advice well. Do you see, Liz Gilda, maybe a version of this ending up at Whole Foods eventually?

24:27AnaMaria Friede:I don't see it just because like you and I have been experiencing this in Spain, but our customers in the United States may have not seen this. So that could be a stretch.

24:39Julia Merid:However, I'm interested in the peppers that they use here in Spain to bring to the US because I don't think that we have any in our shelves right now. Yeah. Adding it to your olive bar or somewhere in the store. Ana Maria, this has been really fun catching up with you, hanging out in Spain. Appreciate the time. Thanks.

25:02AnaMaria Friede:Thank you for the time.

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27:14Julia Merid:Julia, this is so fun. How are you doing? Good. This is Julia Marid, a category merchant at Whole Foods Market, where she leads the canned seafood, antipasti, and tomatoes categories. She's also in charge of shelf-stable olives, meaning Julia is the person responsible for curating everybody's favorite stop at Whole Foods, the Olive Bar. I had to ask you to chat because we are in olive country. I mean, first of all, what's it like managing the iconic Whole Foods Olive Bar? I mean, I've been going to Whole Foods for 20 plus years, and I remember my earliest experiences was pulling out a rather large plastic container and just going to town.

27:57Julia Merid:What's that like?

27:58AnaMaria Friede:Yeah, I love that you said that it's iconic because I really do think it is. I think that our product offering is a destination for our shopper. They know they can come and find really premium products, whether it's for building out their charcuterie board or even just to enjoy. Olives have become so popular over the last several years for snacking, healthy snacking, martinis, again, charcuterie boards. But it's a really fun category to oversee. I acquired the business last year. So just really leveraging my supplier partnerships with that main supplier, you know, driving the business forward as far as innovation.

28:42Julia Merid:Listen, we are here enjoying olives. And so when you're out in the field doing research and talking to your suppliers, especially in olives and also, of course, tin fish in the conserva world. What are you talking about to bring Spain, where we're hanging out, to your many olive bars around America?

29:02AnaMaria Friede:Yeah, I think one thing that we always have to go back to as a merchant, and especially at Whole Foods Market, something that's really important is what is our customer looking for and how can we satisfy and delight our customer as best as possible while upholding our rigorous standards. so one thing that I'm always looking for is like what is the next trend how can we serve our customer with that next trend how can we again satisfy and delight them and surprise them and really just keep things interesting and exclusive to Whole Foods market and they can come to Whole Foods and discover something new you know our customers really trust us we've built this trust with our customers through our quality standards, through the innovation, through the supplier partnerships that we've created.

29:55AnaMaria Friede:And so I think that's the main thing that we're always looking for with our suppliers. And just staying very up to date and in tune with what's going on in the market.

30:07Julia Merid:Which is part of being here in Bilbao and walking around and enjoying pinchos. I mean, give me a favorite Oliver too. Just like if you had to pick your favorites.

30:14AnaMaria Friede:Yeah. Well, Well, this is pretty typical, but they call it the Gateway Olive, and it's the Castle Vetrano. The Castle Vetrano is so buttery and delicious, and it comes from Sicily. And it's just such a beautiful olive. You know, you can make olive oil with it. It's perfect for snacking, charcuterie boards. I love the Castle Vetrano. I also really like Calamata. they're completely different but I'm a huge olive lover um one's buttery one's a little bit more um punchy yeah I love that that's great so yeah I think those are probably two of my favorites

30:55Julia Merid:very cool okay so like we're about to have a Hilda which is like the iconic you know uh anchovy uh olive toothpick uh marriage I mean when you're in Spain enjoying these Hildas and other olives You know, how are you feeling as the person who's buying all the olives for Whole Foods?

31:16AnaMaria Friede:I like to see, like, what inspiration I can find, whether we're in a restaurant, you know, in another country, and we're getting this culinary aspect as inspiration. But I think that there's different recipes and ways that I can steer my suppliers in a certain direction to show different recipes on their social media pages. Going to other countries and different restaurants, again, getting inspiration for, is it a new type of a stuffed olive? Is it a different way that you can serve an olive? Recently, we noticed that sliced and diced, whether it's pickles, olives, are doing really well in our assortment because of convenience.

32:04Julia Merid:Yeah, definitely.

32:05AnaMaria Friede:And so is it like we need to bring in a sliced olive so just different iterations of the business or of an olive that we find inspiration for when we're on these types of trips is kind of one thing that comes to mind.

32:19Julia Merid:I love it. I mean, we're definitely experiencing olives and tinned fish here on this trip, and I mean, is this like one of your favorite parts of the job? I mean, like, what do you love about the job? Because I think we wanted to chat with you and your colleagues on this episode to really get inside what a Whole Foods buyer does because there's a lot of mystery around it. And you wear many hats. Of course, you mentioned all the categories. Like one day you're thinking about, you know, canned tomatoes and I'm sure really deep in the tasting and then you have to switch your brain. What do you love about it?

32:51AnaMaria Friede:I love my job. So I came from fashion. And to be completely candid, I never thought that I would love my job this much. I think that...

33:01Julia Merid:Yeah, I mean, work can be work. That's why it's called that.

33:04AnaMaria Friede:Yeah, and I think like coming from fashion and being like a footwear buyer for several years and then doing beauty, I never imagined that canned seafood and tomatoes of all things would be something that would make me excited. And I think what makes me excited about it the most is just, well, there's a lot of things. But for one, you know, we get to be key business partners with these amazing brands who are doing right by people, doing right by the planet. We get to influence these small villages and communities by supporting these farmers and these small towns. And really that affects their entire community and their entire families.

33:45AnaMaria Friede:And a lot of these farmers and fishermen are multi-generational. So they've kind of built this business with their families and it's very impactful. And we want to support them because they're doing the right thing by the planet. just because, of course, our quality standards are always number one. I love that grocery has become a little, I call it a little mini fashion show.

34:12Julia Merid:Totally agree. Love that you said that. It's so true.

34:15AnaMaria Friede:It's so cool to see all the color and fun product and packaging on shelf, and I think that that is something that drives customer decision sometimes.

34:27Julia Merid:I mean, so true. I mean, branding and packaging can be the only reason people buy something.

34:33AnaMaria Friede:Yeah, I mean, what did I say earlier? I said it's the curb appeal, right? Yeah, yeah. It's the curb appeal. You pull up to the shelf, you see this beautiful packaging, and you're enticed to buy it, right? But it's equally, if not more, important that the product inside is tasty, is up to par with our standards, and is really like creating a nutritious snack or product for our customer.

35:00Julia Merid:Yeah. So what's it like when you're tasting a category? Because, I mean, you're in Austin in your office, and you have sometimes a task ahead of you where you have to taste, what is it, 10, more, 50? I mean, tell me about what it's like to go deep into a category and decide what products Whole Foods buyers, shoppers are going to get.

35:22AnaMaria Friede:Well, there's a lot of decisions that go into it. Is there a white space opportunity on our shelf? Are we finding that there's a trend that's taking off and maybe we only have one product offering for our customers and so maybe we need a second product offering? Is there flavor innovation? Is there, you know, there's just a lot that kind of goes into it. But when we're tasting product and we're really exploring new innovation that comes our way that suppliers have submitted, again, quality standards are always number one. I am always trying to level up my assortment for customers. Is it organic?

36:02AnaMaria Friede:Is it regenerative organic certified? Is it what makes it unique and different from the rest of the world? and Whole Foods is the only national certified organic grocer. So it's really important that we continue to offer those sort of elevated product offerings to our customers because they come to us and they trust us. And so there's just a lot that kind of goes into it. But all I can say is that it's a lot of fun.

36:33Julia Merid:I mean, I imagine deliciousness also. I mean, And, like, I'm so happy you laid out all the more important elements. Or, like, I would say slightly more important elements. Because deliciousness is obviously what you want your customer to have. But, like, making sure it's sort of organic and fits your standards is important. But, like, the deliciousness of a category. Like, have you found yourself with your colleagues, like, you know, debating if you're going to carry something? Like, getting into those, like, tough decisions?

37:03AnaMaria Friede:Yes and no. Like I always try to take samples around the office and share with my team because I want to get a broader perspective, right? Like I'm one person, I'm one opinion. But at the same time, I've been a buyer or I've been in buying for 10 years. And so I feel I have this like buyer's instinct where I'm like, I know a product will do well when I see it. And of course, you know, there's been times I've been wrong. And there's been times when I didn't think of a little thing that my customer was going to not like. But I would say nine times out of ten, I feel like there's this instinct of like, okay, I know based on the product that does well in my assortment or maybe where this trend is heading that my customer is going to love it.

37:49AnaMaria Friede:But, yeah, I think getting broader input is definitely important.

37:55Julia Merid:How do you talk to the customers when you're thinking about the Olive Bar or thinking about so many new tin tomato products coming out from upstarts, from different parts of the Mediterranean? How do you get that data? I mean, it's got to be tricky because it can't just rely on buzz on social media because that's not really real life in some ways.

38:16AnaMaria Friede:I know. I like to think it's not part of real life, but it's so crazy how much social media does have an influence. But yes, I do think that, you know, customer communication is very important. Again, customers are number one. We're obsessed with our customers at Whole Foods Market. Through data, through trends, going to trade shows, connecting with brands. Really, I rely on my brands and my suppliers to tell me, hey, this is what's up and coming. like you need to kind of test this or play into this. They're all the experts of the category and specifically with olives. Our biggest supplier is such a key business partner to Whole Foods.

39:05AnaMaria Friede:They've been a legacy supplier of Whole Foods Market. They've really been such a supportive business partner. And I think that I trust them completely. So, again, I think just, like, the supplier relationships, ensuring that we have win-win.

39:24Julia Merid:Well, we have some Hildas to eat and enjoy. I mean, I pulled you outside. We're, like, if you haven't noticed, we're outside. It's getting a little rowdy here. People are getting ready to have more vermouth. Yes. And, I mean, we're about to go on a crawl through Bilbao. What do you want to try? Is there anything, like, on your radar that you're looking for on this kind of research trip we're going on?

39:47AnaMaria Friede:Honestly, I think what we've had so far has been amazing. All of the fish. I'm such a fish lover, obviously. But, gosh, that's such a hard question because everything has been so good here in Fresh.

40:04Julia Merid:New conservas popping up on the wall.

40:07AnaMaria Friede:Yeah, I think what I want to see here is how the tinfish culture is. You walk into a shop, you walk into a restaurant. and I've seen this a little bit in the U.S. where they're trying to start to adopt this sort of culture. But like you walk in and you can buy a tin of fish and you see people eating it with like a toothpick in the restaurant while they're enjoying their glass of wine. And I think that's so cool because that's a culture that doesn't necessarily exist in the U.S. but I think it could be coming.

40:37Julia Merid:Oh yeah, for sure. I totally agree. I think people are using tin fish for all sorts of formats including like a snack or like for a meal i mean we've seen it with like fishwife for example really terrific brand and yeah many others in your in your set like you've got so many cool

40:52AnaMaria Friede:upstarts and incumbent brands so cool yeah i i mean convenience ready to eat those are two of the biggest factors of um in protein obviously of why this category i think is so strong right now you can rip open a tin of fish and just enjoy it right out of the tin and it's easily 15 to 20 grams of protein and it's so delicious, so convenient. And when we think about like the center store aisles, this is the purest form of protein.

41:22Julia Merid:Yeah. So yeah, I can see why the

41:25AnaMaria Friede:category is trending. But to answer your question, I'm excited to see the conservative culture as we go on our bar crawl.

41:32Julia Merid:Well, let's go enjoy it. Thanks for chatting.

41:35AnaMaria Friede:Yeah. Thank you so much.

41:37Julia Merid:This episode is brought to you by Wayfair. I spend a lot of time in restaurants thinking about how the spaces work and sometimes don't work. One of my favorite dining rooms in New York City is Michael's in Midtown. It's so inviting. And there's all this incredible art on the wall from Frank Stella, Jesper Johns and David Hockney. And here's the thing. When I went home to my own outdoor space, it was kind of the opposite. There was no atmosphere or vibe, just a boring table and chairs. Wayfair helped me find a new outdoor set in zero time. Wayfair offers every style for every budget. And with over 20 million verified five-star reviews, there's no second guessing.

42:19Julia Merid:Plus, Wayfair Verified offers hand-vetted pieces and 10-point quality inspection. So you know exactly what you're getting before it shows up at your door. Get prepped for patio season for way less. Head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R dot com. Wayfair. Every style, every home. Wayfair. Every style, every home. This episode is brought to you by Rula. Therapy is absolutely great. Finding a therapist who takes your insurance is the opposite of absolutely great. It can actually be a nightmare. Those two facts have coexisted for too long. Rula is the fix. with over 100 insurance plans, an average copay of$15, and you're matched to a therapist who is actually right for you.

43:06Julia Merid:Not just whoever has an opening, someone aligned with your goals, your background, and what you actually need. And appointments are available as soon as tomorrow. There are no wait lists and no out-of-pocket surprises. Visit Rula.com slash taste to get started. That's R-U-L-A dot com slash taste. You deserve mental health care that works with you, not against your budget. We head out on a pinch-o'-crawl around Bilbao, hitting up local favorites El Globo, La Ola, Cafe Bar Bilbao, and Victor Montes. Fishwife co-founder Becca Milstein is there, but that's a story for another episode. But here's a spoiler.

43:42Julia Merid:There are boats. Many boats. And speaking of boats, our traveling crew heads to the fishing town of Andoroa, home of Conserva Zortiz. Conserva Zortiz has been operating on the Basco since 1891. that's over 130 years of putting exceptional fish into tins by hand, now in its fifth generation of family ownership. That tin of white tuna in olive oil that you've seen on the shelf of Whole Foods or maybe in your own pantry traces a direct line back to this town on the coast. Before visiting the production, I catch up with Iker Fernandez of Ortiz. Iker has been selling Ortiz since the early days and speaks about the trajectory of this heritage conserva.

44:24Iker, I'm just really excited to talk to you.

44:29Julia Merid:You have such cool perspective on Ortiz because you have worked with the company since 2003. You live in Westchester County, but you're back and forth between Spain and New York. And you were there early on because we've been talking a lot about the heritage of Ortiz and really the way Ortiz has kind of always been in the States. And I want to hear a little bit about the early history of Ortiz in America. I know Whole Foods played a big role in it.

45:02AnaMaria Friede:Yes, yes, Matt. That is true, 100 % true. I moved to the U.S. in 2003. The brand had been already in the market for several years. And I started to work with Importer, I'm sure you remember, the Cheeseworks. and then Kathy Strange from Whole Foods got involved and since the beginning she lived in Ortiz, she has been in the factory a couple of times and they helped us a lot to start development of the brand. For us New York was very important, our importer was located in New York, I went to New York so We focus in all the beautiful specialty food stores all over New York.

45:51Julia Merid:Yeah, tell me about some of them, because I know, like, back then in the early 2000s, there seemed to be even more specialty stores. And it was like, you know, now we have, like, big stores, but there were, like, many more small accounts. And the influencers in New York really were the media. It was pre-social media, so it was, like, really the media.

46:11AnaMaria Friede:Yes, pre-social media. So what we decided to do, to start with, is visiting one by one. We put together a list with Cheeseworks and we said to put some examples, let's go to Dean and DeLuca. You know, remember the great Dean and DeLuca.

46:27Julia Merid:Oh, never forget Dean and DeLuca down in Soho. Yes.

46:32AnaMaria Friede:And then Fairway Market. I remember Steve Jenkins. Yeah. our first meeting saying, oh, this is not going to sell. This is very premium. We don't have anything like that in the stores. And then it has been one of our best partners over the years. Steve believed in you, though, ultimately.

46:51Julia Merid:Steve believed in us. Yeah, he may not have believed in the original meeting, but he eventually, and Steve Jenkins, legend at Fairway, just really just brought olive oil to America in many ways and many Spanish and Italian products.

47:03AnaMaria Friede:Yes. So we did one by one. Then we start opening samples and things people taste. One of the things that this brand has is after you taste it, you don't want to go back to anything else. We educated the consumers, the retailers, and the press as well. we were very lucky that the Financial Times, the New York Times, several magazines, they start talking about the Ortiz family, the vast country, the Ortiz products, how we work with the fish, how we prepare the products, how introducing a premium brand in the Tim Fish market in the U.S.

47:51Julia Merid:It probably didn't hurt that there was a little chef named Ferran Adria at El Bully, you know, operating this world-renowned best restaurant in the world around the same time, and Basque cuisine and northern Spanish cuisine in general, and just fine dining in Spain. It likely dovetailed a little bit with your story.

48:12AnaMaria Friede:Yes, of course. It was, let's say, perfect timing, no? We had all these Bask chefs, we have Fernandrea, we have Juan Maria Arzac, all the Bask cuisine. And we were hand by hand with them, growing in different markets, but specifically in the U.S. New York, very important for us. And then, you know, we were being part of the fancy food shows in the East Coast. The fancy food show on the West Coast, a little by little, we're expanding our presence in the market until today.

48:44Julia Merid:It's great that so many people who are introduced to our teas are just introduced by the branding, by the logo, by the sailboat. And clearly, it's very different from, I mean, at the time in 2003, the tuna fish, like the cans of tuna, mostly water pack that you're going to find in the grocery store. It really stood out. What was that like, you know, introducing the brand and the branding to your specialty market clients who probably saw that as an opportunity as well?

49:18AnaMaria Friede:Yes. At that time, there were not imported brands at this premium level in the market, some Italians. and as you are saying in water most of them we pack everything in olive oil so we start educating all of them on our you know we fish one by one pollen line coat clean it by hand pack it by hand the sustainability the traditional fishing methods so we we were introducing and educating all of them or what we are what the family has been doing for for years and years let's go back to

49:54Julia Merid:Kathy Strange at Whole Foods. What's it like working with somebody like Kathy Strange who we've had on the show in the past, who just has a great knack for discovering products. She discovers you essentially, and starts getting you into first regional Whole Foods and eventually national. What's that like for a brand, a very, you know, a family brand well known in Spain, but not known in the States?

50:17AnaMaria Friede:Yes, Kathy helped us a lot. She believed in us since the first day that came to visit. She loved the products. She was always looking for premium brands, different brands, unique brands. And a key point that she did with us in Whole Foods, she introduced Ortiz not in grocery, but in specialty. Where the cheese, with the imported cheese, with products from all over the world, their team members, they had time to educate the consumers about who Ortiz was and introduced it broadly in a few regions at the beginning. And then from there, we went over the years to the national distribution.

51:01Julia Merid:What a cool break to have them position you in that specialty section along with the cheeses as this premium European brand and really being one of the first major retailers to recognize conservas and tin fish to be something that belonged in specialty and really should be on your charcuterie table and board and we're talking again this is 23 years ago you know many of the some of the people who started fish brands today have weren't even born then it seems it feels like so it's it's pretty

51:35AnaMaria Friede:cool yeah it was very cool very cool to to be part of the pro year see see saw the future for the team fees. She helped us in so many ways with several promotions, a lot of education of her teams, you know, in different regions. We educated even at the store levels. She put the programs where we could go store by store, educate their managers, their team members, so they could pass the information to the final consumers.

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53:41AnaMaria Friede:The processing facility that we are going to visit right now is one of the oldest can seafood facilities that is still active around. The building itself was built over a hundred years ago.

53:57Julia Merid:It's the factory, it's the first plant that we have here, and it's also the family house. This is John Zieretta, export manager at Conserva Ortiz. He is taking us on a tour of the Ortiz factory where they process tuna and anchovies in a precisely choreographed chain of processes. While our phones are taken and photos and videos are strictly prohibited, we are offered a rare opportunity to record this incredible process. Wearing a hairnet, mask, plastic coveralls and booties, we are introduced to the inner workings of Conserva Ortiz.

54:32AnaMaria Friede:Welcome everybody to Ortiz. This is one of the oldest can-see food factory that you are going to see around. The building itself is over 100 years old. And in this, and Maizena will correct me if I say something wrong, in this plant what we do is we try to prepare the food, the can-see food, the same way it was done 100 years ago. OK, so everything is hand processed, hand cleaned, hand packed. We are using new machinery and some technology to add the olive oil or for steaming. But other than that, the rest of the process is very artisanal.

55:08Julia Merid:We step onto the factory floor and the first thing that hits us is the aroma. It's fish, no doubt, but a roasty, inviting fish bouquet that welcomes us to our teas. Oh, wow. We're walking down into this massive space.

55:24AnaMaria Friede:forklifts wow this is cool much you have to take into account that the plant is in downtown okay so we are surrounded by apartments and people live very close to the to the plant so the smell cannot be a bad smell because otherwise all the neighbors would be complaining all the time yeah so and then another thing that it is important to know is that the big big trucks cannot get in because we are in downtown, and the street, the road that you saw, it's not big. It's not very wide. Why do you stay here? Because most of the people that work here are local people. You will see that most of them are ladies, girls, housewives, that they do not have cars.

56:05AnaMaria Friede:They cannot move outside the town. So, of course, it would be much, much easier to move to an industrial area and build a huge plant over there, but we prefer to stay local so people can walk.

56:17Julia Merid:John takes us to the cutting room floor, where we witness a remarkable sight. Large albacortuna, known locally as Bonita del Norte, frozen from the previous season's summer catch, are beheaded and guts removed.

56:30AnaMaria Friede:So we are now seeing a fish batch. So you see that the fishes that we have, they are round, whole fish, with the head, with the eyes, with the geos, with the fins. Yeah, whole fish. The species that we are working today is Tunus a la longa. We call it white tuna or bonito del norte in Spanish, very similar to the albacar tuna that you have in the States.

56:56Julia Merid:And so when was this caught? We're looking at probably 50, it's a forklift, and it's 50 tuna in a crate.

57:03AnaMaria Friede:In a rug like this, yes, in a crate like this, approximately 40 to 50 tunas. This tuna has been caught in summer. The tuna season in Spain is in summer, usually from July until September, October. So what we do is we process as much as we can during the summer months. So we can say that about 85, 90 % of the production is done during the summer months, but we are freezing part of the tuna that we are buying. So that's in the winter months, we have some productions to prepare. Okay?

57:34Julia Merid:Makes perfect sense.

57:35AnaMaria Friede:So you have big freezers filled with - We have big freezers and all the tuna is freezed by ourselves. This is the first part of the process. We are heading and guarding the tuna here. So we cut the head and we cut the belly of the tuna. Okay? So they are both separated later on because the tunas and the bellies are cooked in different places. As my tenant said before, they need the different timings.

57:59Julia Merid:The timing for cooking is different. I mean, seeing the wet saw work with the fish, it's very precise, very clean. You're working extremely clean here. Yes. There's blood on the floor, which is natural in any kind of butchering. I mean, it's fish. But it's very controlled. John takes us over to a row of giant steel racks, where the tuna is placed to be cleaned and boiled, a process that prepares the fish for meticulous cleaning.

58:22AnaMaria Friede:They have to be very precise because the tuna belly is not big. I mean, it's a small part, but you need to keep it as big as you can because it has a lot of value for us. I mean, it's a very premium product. We are selling it at a very high price, So the bigger it is, the better. Unfortunately, the bellies are not big, and usually we get only one tin out of one tuna.

58:46Julia Merid:The tuna is placed in giant boilers and cooked at a low temperature. A worker, who John refers to as the master cook of Ortiz, monitors the temperature by plunging a probe thermometer into the fish.

58:58AnaMaria Friede:So he checks the temperature of the tuna while cooking, to know if the temperature is correct for this size of tuna.

59:06Julia Merid:Very important job. And he needs to get to the bone. Right, he goes right to the bone. So it's basically, the tuna's being boiled in these large vats of boiling water. It's just water, there's no brine. It's just water at a low temperature.

59:21AnaMaria Friede:I mean, it's warm, it's hot, but it's not even boiling. Yeah, it's a simmer. And it takes hours to cook the tuna. Right, right.

59:29Julia Merid:It's a very slow cooking. Slow cooking, and he's checking each piece.

59:33AnaMaria Friede:He's checking the temperature in the blood. So now he opened and you see that it's still raw. Yeah, yeah. Okay? So those tunas, they still need more time. And once the tuna is cooked, once it arrives to the temperature, we need to leave the tuna in this place for a few hours to cool down. First, at room temperature. And then we have to put them again in the cool chamber. But we cannot go from the boiler to the cool chamber right away. Otherwise, the temperature change would be too much.

1:00:03Julia Merid:The cooling step is critical in preserving the tuna's flavor and, more important, texture. John walks us to a cooling chamber which resembles a giant walk-in refrigerator.

1:00:14AnaMaria Friede:This is one of the cooling chambers that we have in here. So we are storing the tunas and the tuna bellies in here for some time until they get to the temperature of the room, and it's the best place to maintain the tuna at good temperature. Then after that aluminum door, there's a water tank to clean the tuna.

1:00:31Julia Merid:We're taken to observe the pre-cleaning, which is when the skin and bones is removed and critically, the loin and belly is separated for individual processing. As John mentioned earlier, the belly, which is buttery in texture and complex in flavor, retails for around$20 for a four-ounce tin in the United States. It's the most prized section of the tuna.

1:00:53AnaMaria Friede:So there's a really tough cleaning upstairs, but before going upstairs, the tunas have to be open. We need to get the pour loins of the tuna. We need to take the skin off and all the middle bones. So this is a very important part of the process. They are placing, they are taking the rug from the crate with the tunas. They are putting them through a steam line. They are steamed a little bit so the skin gets a little bit softer and it is easier to place. As the tuna is cooked whole, then we need to open it apart, clean the skin, take the fins off, and then divide the tuna in four different loins.

1:01:31Julia Merid:We head to the second floor where over 50 workers are cleaning and later packing the tuna loins individually in glass jars.

1:01:39AnaMaria Friede:What are all these? Yes, each lady has its, yeah, yeah, yeah, her own knife. So they don't want to share the knife with others. Is that because of style? Like you, I mean, we're looking at over a hundred plus, because yeah, they are about 80 people working here in summer so now you see that not everyone is working here you see some empty positions and these are the cards for each of the employees because once one of the cases is clean

1:02:02Julia Merid:they need to put the cards on yeah it's like their inspection basically by by employee number correct there's absolutely a sense of purpose on the employees here i feel this is pride is purpose

1:02:15AnaMaria Friede:Yes, it is. And even if they are doing the same thing all day long, okay, but they feel really, really proud of the thing that they are doing. You will see now we're going to see how do they clean the loins that have been pre-cleaned before, okay, and then we're going to see how they cut them. Each of them, they have, I mean, they are important for a part of the process. So for them cleaning a loin is something that they have to do with very high precision. So it's something that it is really, really important. and we like telling them how important is what they do. Okay? And then cutting the loins into smaller tanks and then using the knife or cutting the tuna loins and pack them in glass chairs as if they were a puzzle.

1:02:59AnaMaria Friede:I mean, you really need to be skillful to do that. And we always appreciate very much what they do. And they feel proud of their... Yeah, it's a very skilled job. When we come back and we say, hey, you know, the jars that you are packing today, they are going to be shipped to New York. So for them, it's like a big, big pride. I mean, or you see that the glass jars that we are packing this week, we are going to send them to Tokyo in Japan. So they know that whatever they have been doing here, it's going to be in Tokyo or in New York or in LA or in Dubai or in London or all over the world.

1:03:37Julia Merid:Yeah. So that's remarkable. You know, you see this process and it's always at Whole Foods Market, right?

1:03:44AnaMaria Friede:Well, Whole Foods is one of the main retailers that we are working with worldwide. We are also very proud to work with them because it was one of the first retailers that trusted in our product like 30 or 35 years ago when we started selling our products in Whole Foods.

1:04:02Julia Merid:Last step, the jars are filled with Spanish olive oil.

1:04:06AnaMaria Friede:So in this part in here, she's taking the glass jars that were hand packed upstairs and she's putting them in this machine and the machine itself is filling the tuna jars with olive oil. You see that each case has inspection. Because this one is the same as here. The whole row has like a batch so that we know who was the lady that packed this tuna in the jars.

1:04:39Julia Merid:Yeah, it's not...

1:04:40AnaMaria Friede:So the filling is done in two steps. First is done, like, they put all the olive oil that they can into the jar, and then they spend, like, a few seconds, so the tuna absorbs the olive oil, and then they refill it. They refill the gap.

1:04:56Julia Merid:We move to the anchovy side of the factory, where Kerry Brownstein, head of seafood quality standards at Whole Foods Market, takes a moment to talk with a member of the Ortiz team about their tracking practices. The senior employee shows us binders of fishing manifests that can trace each tin back to its original boat.

1:05:14AnaMaria Friede:We have an ERP. Our ERP is called MOVEX, so we keep the traceability until the barrel. And whenever we process a barrel to make some anchovy fillets, we can know from which barrel, and this barrel was made from which fish from which boat. Oh, nice. So like how long do you keep your records of tracing your fish to the vessel? How long? Like if you pick up a tin of anchovies that you packed last year, say? Ten years. Ten years? Ten years.

1:05:47Julia Merid:I catch up with Carrie on the factory floor to hear about how she works in the field when visiting a supplier like Ortiz. I love the pointed questions, Carrie, that you're asking.

1:05:56AnaMaria Friede:Oh yeah, I'm the questions person.

1:05:58Julia Merid:It was great to see you working. I mean, are you feeling good about the experience and all the data that they were offering you?

1:06:06AnaMaria Friede:Yes. Traceability is super important to me. This is, you know, how we are able to verify that our sourcing standards are being met. So, you know, we require on wild-caught fisheries that the fishery is Marine Stewardship Council certified or rated green or yellow, and so I need to be able, by Monterey Bay Aquarium, see people to watch, So I need to be able to know that they are able to track to the fishery, ideally to the vessel. I'm on the board of the Global Dialogue for Seafood Traceability, GDST, which is an organization working to standardize traceability for the seafood industry. and so you know beyond Whole Foods Market thinking about the whole industry and what is critically needed to be able to verify sourcing and supply chains so you know you're verifying here in real

1:07:06Julia Merid:time yeah this is yeah this is your work you're buying from a place like Ortiz you're not you can't see raw products come in you you have the final result so just to know that she's logging all this data must be reassuring.

1:07:21AnaMaria Friede:Oh yeah, 100%. If an industry player is saying like, that's not possible to do that, and some say that, you know, you can see that it is.

1:07:30Julia Merid:So they're setting a standard so that now everyone in the industry needs to follow because they clearly have a proof of concept. It takes a lot of work though, from their end to keep these records.

1:07:41AnaMaria Friede:Yeah, but it's beneficial to them too. So it's worth it because if, like she said, But, you know, if somebody came to them and, like, had a quality complaint, they can easily figure out, like, where it came from and what the batch was. So there's benefits to them as well.

1:07:59Julia Merid:We'll hear from Carrie again soon, but for the moment, John continues his tour of the anchovy side of the factory, showing us a proprietary sorting machine that is essential in the production. What can you tell us about this machine?

1:08:12AnaMaria Friede:So this is a machine that was invented or was created by Mr. Erdbees himself. So he made some adjustments to a machine that already existed. So now this machine is able to check the size of the anchovy, each of the anchovies that we are putting on it, and classifying it in different sizes, and putting those anchovies in different racks, different crates.

1:08:36Julia Merid:And other producers would need to do it by hand.

1:08:39AnaMaria Friede:Usually they do it by hand. but it's not that precise. Okay, so when we do it with the machine, we check the size and we check the weight. Weight. Very important.

1:08:54Wow.

1:08:55Julia Merid:We head to the anchovy aging room and it smells incredible. Delightfully fishy and pungent.

1:09:01AnaMaria Friede:This is the food where we keep the anchovies once they are salted. And they are cured. We keep them at a very low temperature aging. Aging. So, at our case, we sold the anchovies for at least six months, but most of the times it's longer than that. So in here you have like the size of the anchovy in this label that it's put in each of the barrels. You have the batch number, the size means from four to five. This is the batch number that we are going to the barrel. And this is the day when this anchovy was salted. So, 11 months ago, yeah. Yeah, 15th May 2025. Yeah, okay. And this is the day when they took the neck out, which is next day.

1:09:49AnaMaria Friede:Okay, and this is the batch number, another batch number that we are using. And this is the name of the person who made this barrel. Now, whenever we need anchovies this size or any other size, we take a barrel from here and we take it to the next room. And it is where we open the barrel and we start working with the anchovies.

1:10:06Julia Merid:So working through it with the filleting. John takes us to a large, airy room where 40 highly skilled women clean the anchovies. It's a delicate art that requires scraping and trimming of the tiny bones that cannot make their way into the tin.

1:10:20AnaMaria Friede:Okay, so they are all very skilled. One of the things that we do in this plant is when we hire people, they have a training for three months. Wow. After this training, if they are able to prepare the number of things that the responsible person here is requesting, they're remaining here. If not, they do not work with us any longer. Because it's not only the number, it's also the quality. They have to prepare in the way that we like, and also they have to be able to prepare some quantities. They have a test, basically. They have a test for three months, so they are trained, and then the last day or the last week, it's like kind of a test yeah okay so it's a very delicate job I mean it's not that easy to do it's very I mean they have to be very cautious because they cannot break anchovies yeah I mean anchovies are you know are pricey so every anchovy that is broken means that I mean we cannot sell that anchovy anymore so they have to be very precise with the way they are preparing the anchovies and many of them they have been with us for many years and they are very skilled people.

1:11:25Julia Merid:Let's go walk over to one of your workers.

1:11:27AnaMaria Friede:So the process in here is the following. She's taking one anchovy from the barrel. Okay, it's already cleaned with some water, so then it is easier to work on it. So basically, she cleans part of the skin on both sides of the anchovy. She opens the anchovy apart. She cleans all the inside by just using a knife. Okay, and then with the knife with the same knife She's going to clean all the little bones and all the insides that are remaining in the anchovy fillet

1:11:57Julia Merid:It's okay. It's like the most delicate work. I mean you're seeing it's almost like Surgery like a surgeon.

1:12:05AnaMaria Friede:It is like a surgeon This is something that we hear quite often when we have visits to the to this plant Because they have to work with a lot of accuracy in order to make sure that all the little little little bones and all the insides are clean. Those little bones, sometimes, if you find a bone in an anchovy, it's one of those bones that got into your palate sometimes and they are, you know, not very nice.

1:12:28Julia Merid:That's when you get, like, emails, if that ever happens, but not too many.

1:12:31AnaMaria Friede:Well, we don't have too many. I mean, we don't have too many complaints about our anchovies.

1:12:35Julia Merid:No, no.

1:12:36AnaMaria Friede:Yeah. So as you can see, all the process is done by just using a knife. Okay? Many other plants, many other companies, they are using scissors because it's much faster to clean, but with scissors what you do is you cut the bones but you don't remove them with a knife you remove the little bones so it takes like three or four times longer to clean an anchovy but it's much

1:12:57Julia Merid:more precise and accurate and then they're placed into the tins by hand which is remarkable how many filets are you putting in and tell me about the process of yes so it depends on the size of the

1:13:07AnaMaria Friede:anchovy but usually with this size of anchovy it's eight to ten fillets in each team yeah okay And then they are putting them always in the same way. So they put the back of the anchovy down and they put the other side up. Okay, so they're going to have like two layers of anchovy in each tin. And then once the tin is ready, they are going to add the olive oil. And then they are going to seam the tin and they are going to write the batch number to the tin. In our anchovy tins, next to the batch number, there's always a number. And it is the employee number. So if you see the batch where it says operario, that means worker or employee, it's 31 in this case.

1:13:47AnaMaria Friede:So if you see number 31 in this tin, it means that she was the one preparing these anchovies. So we have full traceability, not only to the vessel, the origin, the name of the captain, the date, but also to the person who prepared that tin of anchovies.

1:14:03Julia Merid:With our tour complete, I catch up with Carrie to get her take on what she saw at Conserva Ortiz. Carrie, what do you think about this, seeing this process?

1:14:13AnaMaria Friede:I mean, it's amazing how much care is going into not just cleaning and cutting them, but also packing them in the jar. I didn't know before seeing this how carefully they're placing the anchovies in the jar. and when I've opened jars before and it's tight, you know, I didn't realize how meticulously, you know, they are arranging the anchovies into the jar. That is amazing.

1:14:51Julia Merid:Yeah, because it would break down if it wasn't layered in the right way. When you opened it up, you would break every filet and we need full filets for various cooking preparations.

1:15:03AnaMaria Friede:But I think what's incredible is to see this and I think, you know, people in general probably have no idea how much time it takes to pack one single jar by hand. So it is incredible to see how carefully they're doing this. And also when they're cleaning the anchovies, like how fast they are. It's amazing.

1:15:28Julia Merid:It's a real skill, absolutely. It is.

1:15:30AnaMaria Friede:It's a real skill.

1:15:31Julia Merid:You think about knife skills for omakase, for sushi chefs, for Japanese chefs, for both chefs. These women have really incredible hand coordination knife skills.

1:15:42AnaMaria Friede:Yeah, yeah. It really makes me appreciate the work that is going into this. I will never open an anchovy can or a jar again without realizing how much care went into that.

1:15:56Julia Merid:Absolutely agree. Our show came to Northern Spain asking a simple question. What does a Whole Foods buyer actually do in the field? And the answer turned out to be pretty simple. They come here whenever possible. They connect with their partners and ask the hard questions about where the fish came from, how it was caught, and whether the people doing the work are treated with dignity. Anna Maria, Julia, and Carrie, three people whose names you'll never see in the grocery store aisle, doing the work that makes shopping at Whole Foods mean something. I'm back in New York and my pantry is restocked with anchovies.

1:16:35Julia Merid:I made that pasta last night, melting the anchovies into olive oil. I used spaghetti this time and added a few olives. And I have to tell you, it tastes a little different now.

1:16:53Julia Merid:This is Taste is hosted and produced by Eliza Abarbanal and me, Matt Rodbar. The show is edited by lead producer Clayton Gumbert and supervised by Pat Stango, director of media production and development at Penguin Random House. Thanks to Shalia Harris and the production team at Penguin Random House. Theme music by Steve Rydell. Episode portraits by Louise Zergon Pomeroy. Logo design by Ellie Skirzat and Ian Dingham. Visit Taste Online at tastecooking.com and make sure to subscribe to our newsletter to keep updated on all cool things in the world of taste.

1:17:51Thank you.

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