785: El Califa de León, The First-Ever Taqueria to Receive a Michelin Star, Doesn’t Think Michelin Is Its Legacy

29:03Do you have to find new sourcing? Because I'm sure the quality of the beef is really what gives the taco the flavor that you're looking for. That's true. I mean, yeah, the taco, in my point of view, of course, you need to have great ingredients, starting from the tortilla, like fresh masa to prepare the tortillas. We prepare the tortillas at the moment, as I was saying. And then, of course, the quality of the meat is essential to have a good taco. The answer is no. Like we already have a provider in New York for the meat. It's a top provider. And I mean, to be completely honest, I think that we will be able to serve a better taco here in New York because of the quality of the meat.

29:47It's not that in Mexico we don't have quality. The thing is like to access the same quality that you can access here in the US will be very expensive, no? So that we will have to price our taco differently. So yeah, I can promise that here in the New York we will have a better taco. So the better taco not only compared to Califa de Leon in Mexico, but the best taco in the city. Wow. Okay. Big claim. I'm going to put it to the test later. And I guess the salsa is the other kind of key component. So what salsa would go best with this taco? I mean, personally, we have only two types of salsas. The green one, which is very spicy, and the red one.

30:31I like to put the two types of salsa into my taco because the red one gives like a flavor, you know, and the green one gives the spiciness. So, I mean, that's my recommendation and that's the way I eat my tacos at Califa de Leon. That is actually how I had the tacos when I visited Califa de Leon in Mexico City. But I think it's because I saw everyone else doing that. And my point of view when I'm traveling is I just watch how other people are preparing their food and I eat it the same way. Okay. And what do you think about that combination? I really like it because I like a spicy salsa. But I think if it's so spicy, then it kind of blows out your palate and you can't really get the kind of fragrance of the corn tortilla or the beef.

31:17So it was a nice kind of balanced bite. But I think next time, I think I'll intersperse the salsas on the taco because I did like one half verre, one half rojo, and then it was two different bites as opposed to like kind of layering them together more. Yeah. I mean, that's what I do. And you mentioned something very relevant, at least from my point of view, to balance the taco. If you add a little bit of spiciness with the salsa, like lime juice, like the taco, it's amazing. I mean, I understand that people might like their taco more spicy and put like a whole spoon of salsa. But in my point of view, like the taco will taste like salsa.

31:59No, you will not appreciate the flavor of the meat and, you know, the corn tortilla. And you mentioned a vegetarian taco. What's that one going to be? Oof. It's with la coche, which is like the corn. Fungus. A fungus, correct. with poblano pepper and corn. I love Huitlacoche. It's one of my favorite, like, quesadilla taco fillings. And it's not that easy to find in New York. No, it's not that easy. I mean, we are, I mean, of course, we are looking for some providers. We already find some providers because Huitlacoche is seasonal. Right. So we need to guarantee to have Huitlacoche all the year.

32:46We found a provider. We made some tests last time I was here one month ago. And honestly, whoa, it's the best vegetarian taco I've ever had in my life. Wow. I think I've seen it at the Union Square Green Market. There's a farm that has done huila cloche, but I think it's only in corn season, obviously. And it's a really specific time of year. And I think the harvesting of it also seems it's a pretty delicate fungus on the corn. So everything about it, you must be really inspired by that flavor to go to that length to have that be your signature vegetarian taco because you could probably just get a different mushroom.

33:24It would be a lot easier. Yeah. I mean, what we thought about, I mean, the most obvious answer of vegetarian taco is nopales probably or mushrooms. So we decided to have like an elevated vegetarian option. And that's why we chose with la coche. I mean, at the beginning as an idea. And then when we try it, I mean, it blowed our minds. So, yeah, that's why we chose like with La Coche made sense to or with La Coche taco to be implemented in our menu. Yeah. Well, I'm excited to get to try that. And it seems that maybe drinks are another kind of new thing that you're doing at this location. That's true.

34:05I mean, comparing what we have in Mexico to what we are having here in the U.S., it's a little bit different. I mean, the style of the tacos is the same and our signature tacos will be the same. But in Mexico, I mean, you already visit Califo de León. It's a hole in the wall. No, there's no seats. You just get in the line, pay. You have your tacos and go. And that's it. Right. Actually, I mean, we have only sodas as an option. And in the U.S., I mean, understanding the dynamics of the market and what people like, we added beer and we added four margaritas. Two of them are great because they replicate our salsas and are spicy.

34:58So one is made of our green salsa and the other it's made of our red salsa. Then we have a traditional one. And yeah, so that's, as you can see, like a different, I mean, the same tacos, but like with different drink options. I think salsa margarita is such a smart idea and I've never had that before. but it feels almost like michelada, like in terms of like it has more of like a kind of savory component going on as well. Yeah, that's true. I mean, you will try them. Yeah. Are you going to have micheladas also or no? Yes. Okay, good. That's important. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's very important. So I imagine you maybe have more of a seating area if people are able to have a drink and have their taco at the same time.

35:42Yes, that's true. I mean, we, the space, it's like 2000 square feet. we will have like a hybrid model in the front of the taqueria there will be like something very similar to Califa de Leon in Mexico where people get in line, they pay they wait for their tacos they eat and go there's an option if they want to have a beer or a margarita but it will be focused on the persons that they are probably in a rush and want to eat something very quick and then at the back of the restaurant, we will have like a full service, full service, no? So we will have tables, we will have runners and servers so that if people want to have a seat, eat their tacos, have a margarita, stay a little bit longer, that's the place to be.

36:35So we will have these two different sections. Well, three sections because also in the middle of the place, it's where all the magic will happen, no? We will have the grills, the taqueros will prepare the meat, the tortilleras, the tortillas. And we will have a bar, like a type of a nomakase, a bar and see how the taqueros and the tortillas are preparing the tacos. We will have that experience as well. So it's like a more traditional taqueria. That's the best seat in the house right there. Yeah, for sure. How did you decide what neighborhood you wanted to open in in New York? I mean, that's a very, very good question.

37:16I mean, I'm not data driven person. So I made my research about like what neighborhoods where like had more food traffic and Flatiron definitely is one of them. I saw a fact that 7 % of the traffic goes to the 23rd Street, like right in front of Italy. So that's basically where we are located. Of course, I saw like tons of different properties on paper, but it's way different when you go to the places and visit them. You can feel like the atmosphere, the type of people that walks nearby. And after seeing, like, to be honest, probably like 30 properties in Manhattan, when we saw this one, we knew it was where Califa de Leon, like the flagship of Califa de Leon.

38:23No, it has this space has like a door that opens in an accordion, like an accordion. So it's more or less like trying to replicate what we have in Mexico, where you can see everything inside the taqueria. People that walk by can see the inside, can see how the taqueros are making the meat, how the tortillas are preparing the tortillas. At the back, we will have a bar. So the people that, again, that walks by will see everything. We try to connect the street with our location. So this place is perfect, again, because the doors open like an accordion, so you have a lot of visibility inside the taqueria.

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40:20José Andrés Hernández:Wayfair. Every style, every home. This episode is brought to you by Rula. Therapy is absolutely great. Finding a therapist who takes your insurance is the opposite of absolutely great. It can actually be a nightmare. Those two facts have coexisted for too long. Rula is the fix. With over 100 insurance plans, an average copay of$15, and you're matched to a therapist who is actually right for you. Not just whoever has an opening, someone aligned with your goals, your background, and what you actually need. And appointments are available as soon as tomorrow. There are no wait lists and no out-of-pocket surprises.

40:58Visit Rula.com slash taste to get started. That's R-U-L-A dot com slash taste. You deserve mental health care that works with you, not against your budget. It's smart to be close to Italy because it's another big kind of food destination for tourists, for locals, and it's a different style of cuisine. So if somebody is maybe visiting New York and they want to go get like a pizza at Italy, they can like go get a taco afterwards and you can be kind of feeding into this larger foot traffic that's happening in the neighborhood. Yeah, that's true. And also, what I saw, of course, like most of the traffic at Flatiron, it's during the weekdays from Monday to Friday.

41:41But at the end, on the weekends, you have also things to do. I mean, there are a lot of – we are located between the Fifth Avenue and Sixth Avenue. So there are a lot of stores in the Fifth Avenue, Broadway. It's there, like the Flatiron building. It's right in the corner. So the neighborhood has its charm and it also during the weekend has movement. Yeah, I think that's I talk to sometimes restaurateurs who want to have a high volume business like what we're talking about. Maybe, you know, Brooklyn is where they want to open. Maybe they live there. Maybe it's like a busy place on the weekend.

42:19But I think you really need the weekdays, the people that work in the neighborhood that are coming by all the time. Like, I think that's actually more of the week. Right. So you need like more traffic in that part of the week. So it makes sense. Yeah, that's right. So, I mean, that's why we chose Flatiron as our first location. But the idea is to open more locations in New York. Actually, before expanding to another city, the plan is to grow the brand and the business in New York. You already mentioned Brooklyn, which is also interesting. So, yeah, probably we will, I mean, the idea and the vision and the plan is to open probably three more taquerias in New York before moving to other places.

43:09Okay, well, I live in Fort Greene, so keep that in mind. I would come a lot. I'll do. Something I'm always interested in when I talk to people from Mexico City, like Mexico City has become such a popular destination for people to visit and especially to eat at. New Yorkers or Americans in general. Do you think like the fact that people have maybe been to the Mexico City location of Califa de Leon, does that create expectations? Is it kind of building a customer base or do you just kind of assume everybody is experiencing it for the first time? No, that's a very good question. I mean, I've heard different people from New York that have tried our tacos in Mexico City.

43:52So I think they already have an expectation of what we are doing here in the U.S. They are expecting at least the same type or quality of product. But I can tell that the experience will be a little bit different. Since we are adding margaritas and beer to the menu, it will be a bigger place. But maintaining the same essence of Califa de Leon. So yes, I think the expectations are high. No, but I'm like, we promise to deliver. Yeah, I think the other element of expectations that's interesting to me is the Michelin star of it all. And the fact that in 2024, Califa de Leon became the first taqueria in Mexico to get a Michelin star, which I think we could probably say a lot about that.

44:39Like it's well-deserved. And also maybe the fact that there's only ever been one is showing the way that Michelin kind of looks at things. But I was curious how that impacted the business. if you felt like that changed things at all for you? I mean, for sure, it changed the life of the business and actually the life of the family forever. I mean, from one day to another, I think it was a Wednesday when the ceremony of Michelin happened. And then on Thursday, I mean, you can't imagine the amount of people that were in line trying to have a bite of our tacos. And I mean, you can imagine the happy problems at the end because we had to renegotiate with vendors.

45:25We have to get new vendors, mainly meet vendors because the current ones, like back in the day, didn't have enough meat to meet our demand. We had to hire more people. And since always, like the goal is once you order your food is to give your taco in less than five minutes. So that same metric was communicated to all the people after obtaining the Michelin star. So, yeah, I mean, the life of the business, the life of the family changed forever. However, because of that, I mean, we were, we made a very good relationship with Ta Combi. Like we were here making some pop-ups back in 2024. And I think, yeah, the mission start put us in the map of the world, you know, because we were already a very well-known taqueria in Mexico.

46:28I mean, 50 years of legacy, like you can imagine. But at the end in the world, no? So, like, currently we've seen, like, a lot of tourists visiting our taqueria. Still, like, the recurrent clients. But, yeah, it changed a little bit, of course, the amount and the type of customers we have. Right. And I think even here in New York, everyone experiences your local place that you love. maybe it blows up on TikTok or it gets a big review in the New York Times and then the line is like three times as long as it used to be. And I think you're excited to see them having the success, but also maybe disgruntled that you have to wait in line and it takes longer to get your food, especially having 50 years of building a customer base.

47:19How did you kind of deal with the fact that like your regulars maybe had a different experience than they used to have? Yeah, I mean, at the beginning it happened that most of these customers that like visit us like probably once a week or once a month, they stopped visiting us because I mean, they were in lines. I mean, they were saying, I mean, I'm not waiting three hours or four hours in the line. Now we are having, of course, like a lot of people, but during the whole day, right? I mean, if you go probably at 11 o 'clock, you will see people. If you go at 5 o 'clock again at 8 o 'clock. So it's not concentrated at one hour or at the lunchtime.

48:06No, it's all day long. So now the wait lines are probably 10 minutes, 15 minutes. So now those customers that are going back to our place. Okay, that's good for them. I think it speaks to the way that tacos are made immediately in front of your eyes and then you're supposed to eat them right away. So it's not the same as waiting three hours for a table in a restaurant where then you have to sit and wait for your food to come out to you. There's kind of a shorter – once you make it to the front of the line, you're not going to have to wait much longer. Exactly. Yeah, probably once you make to the front of the line, you pay because that's how the system works there.

48:45You get in line, you pay, you wait for your tacos. In less than five minutes, you have your order. You eat your tacos and probably in 20 minutes, you are gone. And I guess on the other side of Michelin, so you had the star and then this year it went away. Do you care about that? Like, does that make a difference? I mean, I would be lying to you if I tell you we don't care. I mean, we were upset, of course. We weren't expecting not having the Michelin star in 2026. But after thinking a lot about this moment, I realized that we are much more than a Michelin star. Like a Michelin star does not define who we are.

49:32What does define who we are? It's like the 58 years of legacy, of tradition, of making exactly the same taco for all this time, for being the first taqueria to offer tacos of premium cuts, of being the family that created the gaunera, this iconic taco, it's tenderloin. But, you know, it's a taco that you usually find in like the, well, a meat cut that you usually find in like fine dining restaurants, you know, as filet mignon or something like that. My grandfather was this first crazy person to slice a tenderloin and serve it in a taco. So we are that, you know. Of course, the Michelin stars, I was saying, put us in the map of the world.

50:27but that doesn't define us. We will be serving exactly the same tacos. We were serving the same tacos before and we are serving exactly the same tacos after the 2024 and 2025 Michelin stars. So yeah, I mean, of course we are proud of being the first taqueria ever in the world to obtain this recognition. But at the end, yeah, we are much more than that. Actually, I believe because of that, mastering the way we prepare the tacos and our legacy, the legacy that actually I was explaining comes way before the opening of Califa de Leon with my grandfather being a butcher. And because of that, we obtained that distinction.

51:20So we will be doing exactly the same things that we were doing before. Absolutely. And I feel like, you know, I maybe hinted at how as amazing as Califre de Leon is the fact that it took until 2024 and that you were the only taqueria to get that distinction. Like, obviously, there are other incredibly worthy taquerias that are not getting this kind of external recognition by Michelin. And there's many gaps in terms of street food around the world. You know, there's like one hawker stall in Singapore that has a Michelin star. There certainly are more that deserve that. And even the fact of having your recognition, being known for your own family legacy and inventing this taco as opposed to someone else coming in and then deciding to give you something.

52:06Like, I think that probably doesn't matter as much as the own legacy that you have.

52:10José Andrés Hernández:Exactly. Yeah. At the end, it doesn't matter. Again, because we have 58 years of legacy. And we will keep doing exactly the same things as we've done before. And, I mean, we are a taqueria or a place that focuses on the experience of the client. Having these prime ingredients to prepare our tacos, the service, the whole experience. We will be doing exactly the same thing in Mexico. and we are trying to replicate that experience in the U.S. So it doesn't change at all, not having the 2026 Michelin star. And you said maybe two years ago is when you started becoming more involved in the business.

52:59Is that when you guys began thinking about expanding or has that been kind of a long-time dream? Yeah, I mean, it's a dream I've had since forever. Before the start, my intention was to expand across Mexico. After the start, I realized the opportunity was very big to expand outside Mexico. And actually, the plan is to keep Califa de Leon in Mexico as it is, not open more locations, but to expand into the U.S. But yeah, the answer is in 2024, when I came to New York and other cities like Chicago, Miami, D.C., I realized how big the opportunity was for us to open a permanent location here in the U.S.

53:50At the end, we chose New York because, I mean, it's very clear that the rise of the Mexican restaurants and traditional Mexican taquerias in the city, it's quite evident the opportunity. There are not too many places. There are not places actually that offer the same style of tacos that we do. So, and more philosophically, I think, I mean, New York gets like the most competitive, like the food industry, it's like the most competitive city probably in the world. Right. Well, you know, if you can make it here, you can make it anywhere. Exactly. I was about to say that. Exactly. If we can make it in New York, we can make it everywhere.

54:36Of course, we understand the challenge. We understand that it's tough. I mean, it's been quite tough developing the project in New York. And we understand that it's going to be tough as well once we start operations. But, yeah, it's very clear to us that if we succeed here in New York, we can go everywhere else. Mm hmm. Well, I love hearing you talking about how much excitement you see in the Mexican food scene and the taco scene here in New York, because I've lived in New York for nine years now. I grew up in Los Angeles. So I think like when I first moved to New York, even the kind of amount of tacos that I was looking to eat or like the diversity of that, like it still obviously existed here.

55:22But I think certainly I've seen such a huge increase in that. And I have to ask you where you like to have Mexican food here in New York. Did you do any research? Did you go to, like, other taquerias? I go to—I went to a lot of taquerias, you know. Of course, Tacombia, I already knew their product. I went to Ese Taco. I went to Santo Taco from Santiago, who you also— A friend of the podcast. Yeah. He's doing the fancy steak tacos also. Yes, yes. Well, Santo Taco, Los Tacos. I mean, I tried Taqueria Ramirez. I mean, I went to a lot of taquerias in the city to try the product, see what they were offering.

56:08And I mean, I can tell you that there are good tacos in New York. I mean, I speak with different chefs and business owners here in New York. And they told me like probably 20 years ago, there were a couple of Mexican restaurants. And now, 20 years after, they are a lot. So, again, I mean, the plan is to make the pie bigger, to make a different offer from what New Yorkers can currently find in the city. And, yeah, I mean, the statement is clear, not to have the same taco in New York. Yeah, and you can do a taco crawl here just like you would do in any other city and go to Califa de Leon and then go to walk down into the East Village and go to Carnitas Ramirez, Los Tacos.

56:56Like you could kind of do it all in one day too. Correct. Yes. Okay. Well, before we close, I have to ask you about your favorite tacos in Mexico City as well. I'm sure you eat a lot of good ones. And when you're not going to the family restaurant, where do you like to go? Yeah, I mean, besides Califa de Leon, who I personally think are the best and are my favorite. Well, you have to say that. Yeah, of course. My dad will kill me. Right. No, I personally believe that. But I live in Polanco, in Mexico City. Well, this will be my last year in Mexico. I'm moving to the U.S. with my family. But there's a taqueria called Celene.

57:37I mean, they claim that are the creators of gringa. The gringa is, you know, like the flour tortilla, al pastor, and cheese. But I have to ask you, because I'm always wondering this, what is the difference between a gringa and al pastor quesadilla with a flour tortilla? Is it the same thing? No, yeah. For me, it's the same thing. Okay. So, yeah, that taqueria is like probably 10 minutes away from my home. So, yeah, I go quite often there. How do you feel about leaving Mexico? Well, I'm excited of moving to the U.S. I mean, I have a family. I'm married. I have three kids. And they are excited as well.

58:24The plan is to move permanently to the U.S. We don't know how many years. so we are excited now living in the in the U.S. I mean of course it's also tough because we will be living everything. No we will be we are very close to our families so that's the the most like tough part of the process but but but at the end it's going to be a lifetime experience for for me for my wife and for my kids so we are excited very very excited. Well I'm excited for everything that is to come for you and your family. And I think people will be welcomed here. It'll be really nice to have like not just the tacos, but the family behind it as well.

59:08Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, we promise to, because what I was saying at the beginning, no, like it's not just a taco. No, it's 58 years of legacy, no, in every bite. Okay, I'm going to make you play a rapid fire game to close. So you're going to play some favorites, okay? Okay. Okay, your favorite taco at Caliza de Leon? Costilla. Costilla. I mean, of course, I love gaunera, which is our recreation, but costilla has like a combination of tenderness, but it has a fat. So for me, it has more flavor. Your favorite bakery in Mexico City? It's called Once. They have this like small pancakes called Anushkas.

59:56Your favorite special occasion restaurant in Mexico City? There's a small place called Sartoria in La Roma, Italian. Oh, the pasta? Yeah. They have the best pasta. Yes, they do. I've had it before. It was getting hyped to me, and me not eating Mexican food in Mexico City, I don't really want to do, but then I had the pasta and I was like, oh, this is really good. It's amazing. I mean, it's a small place, a cozy place. But yeah, the pasta, it's great. Your favorite old-school style restaurant or bar in Mexico City? Old school? There's a restaurant bar called La Covadonga, also in La Roma. It's like traditional cantina style.

1:00:46So yeah, it's a great location. I like that place too. So your favorite meal that you've had in New York so far? Like I have amazing meals so far. I think cocolab. Yeah. I mean, I went with my dad. I get like the fried chicken, like the traditional fried chicken. They recommended us to have some champagne. And the pairing was great. I mean, traditionally you eat like the fried chicken, I don't know, with a soda or a beer or whatever, but with champagne, it was... It cuts through. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Your favorite ice cream flavor? Pistachio. Finally, a fictional food scene, like from a book or a movie or something made up that you wish you could eat in real life?

1:01:37Probably, I'm a How I Met Your Mother fan. And I remember like every time they go to the bar and order some burgers, I mean, I would love to be there with them having a beer, but eating those burgers. Well, it's a very like American answer, which is maybe fitting for the kind of whole arc of this conversation. Thank you so much for coming on the show. It's been so fun. No, thank you, Eliza, for inviting me. Yeah, it has been very fun.

1:02:10This is Taste is hosted and produced by Matt Rodbard and me, Eliza Abarbanel. The show is edited by lead producer Clayton Gumbert and supervised by Pat Stango, director of media production and development at Penguin Random House. Thanks to Shalia Harris and the production team at Penguin Random House. Theme music by Steve Rydell. Episode portraits by Louise Zergang Pomeroy. Logo design by Ellie Skurzat and Ian Dingham. Visit Taste online at tastecooking.com. And make sure to subscribe to our newsletter to keep updated on all cool things in the world of taste. Thank you.