789: Mythical Kitchen's Josh Scherer Is Food Media's Unlikely Intellectual Empath

24:21And I was like, how can you spend$260 on such rampant disappointment when I could have walked to the Bakery wine bar across the street. You could have had Barakas. Could have had Barakas. Just have a Barakas snack if you can catch them when they start. They just opened a second location up in the valley. And then there's also a new player. No one's talking about this yet. Diana's Zengyalov Bread. So Zengyalov Hats, the Armenian flatbread that's filled with herbs, opened in Glendale, made waves in L.A. now Diana's doing it in Sherman Oaks that's I have to if that's all you go to Pirozki House you know I mean I have to also say my guy Dan Holtzman Daniel Holtzman is opening Danny Boy's in Sherman Oaks too oh no way he'll have like some New York pizza oh finally yeah yeah he'll have a good pizza I'm sure there's good pizza up there but cool and I totally relate to what you're saying when like you're by geography where you live you have your spots and there's not that pressure yeah you have to like be in the mix all the time It's also like age.

25:23I think that's a big part of it, man. And I remember when I was young looking at the people 10 years older than me who weren't up to date on all the new hottest restaurants and who's doing corn ribs or whatever. Remember the corn rib face? I remember corn ribs, man. But then it was like you should go corn ribs. Or then it was like dry aged barbecue corn ribs. And then it was like every ethnicity was like doing corn ribs. It was the single worst way to eat corn. I've never had a worst way to eat corn. You're getting so little corn. So little corn. It's like the yield is like eight kernels. You're like maybe biting into the wrong spot and chip a tooth.

26:00Yeah, literally. But, you know, I used to judge the people, especially that worked in the industry, that didn't know all the newest happening. And then now that I'm 10 years past that, I'm very much in that. And I get the young little hypebeasts who are, people come to me like, what's your favorite smash burger? And I'm just like, they're all the same almost definitionally. What do you mean? It depends on the person who's smashing it. It depends how hungover the line cook is. Yeah, I know. There's no, with all due respect, there's no difference. It's crazy. Between a for the win and the window and this, you know.

26:29What about Cassell's? Cassell's? That's old school stuff, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's not even Smashburger. That's a. Oh, it's thicker. That burger is a third inch thick. That's way too thick for the modern burger. Thank you for back checking my burgers, Josh. That's the thing is I had a bunch of leftover brisket, not leftover brisket, but like a raw brisket that I canceled on a Shabbat dinner because I got sick. And so I was like, let's grind this and mess around. And I just made just the thickest, most millennial hamburgers. You know, the like Umami Burger, Plan Check, Father's Office. Oh, yeah.

27:00Medium rare, kind of almost a tartare texture in the middle. Dude, Sang Yoon and Umami, that's a 2015. Those are all like in that era. I was an intern at a place called Plan Check. Okay. Which poached all of Umami Burger's chefs. And we're like, we can do this, but better and not mall food. It's so crazy. Four restaurants in LA and they used to pay me in burgers. Oh, God. And I loved it. I think it was illegal because I got no class credit and no money. No class credit and no money, but your triglycerides were popping. So high, yeah. I got a lunch beer for free. It was great. Oh, a shift beer, too.

27:34But at that time, that's like cool because you're working in industry. You're like figuring out yourself as a chef, figuring yourself as a writer. And that's a segue to just like linking up and literally linking crew at Mythical. I mean what's the interview like and like what's your pitch going from like the guy who's out at Locks and Glocks but clearly super nerdy about food in the best way to like a bunch of guys who on the surface maybe aren't super into food they're into more like just entertainment and like being on YouTube what was that like it was interesting man I was so burnt out from writing at the time because I was doing the weekly column for Maxim that ended up like shifting to Thrillist weekly column for probably two years.

28:17And then I was full-time editor and already had that vibe of like, you should be lucky to be here. What do you mean? You're reporting on your lunch break. You need to be in the office. And so working like crazy. And then I wrote a cookbook and I didn't take any time off the magazine. I was doing that on the weekends, you know, faking six so I can meet deadlines. Bro, been there, know it. It sucks. It sucks. And I ended up having just a pretty big crash out literally right when I hit submit on that book manuscript, and I was like, I don't know that I can keep doing this. And so enter my six-week stint of stony bologna, artisanal chimichangas, and fried chicken, my ill-fated Smorgasburg LA pop-up.

28:55Pop-up, okay. So you went to Zach at Smorgasburg, and you're like, I got this idea. Yeah, Zach might have actually come to me, and it was, I mean, I've known him for forever. He took me to my first Coachella in 2014. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, he came to me with this idea of like, hey, I want to do a pop-up at Smorgasburg. and I'd like buy a bunch of equipment. It was, you know, already not great at doing a lot. I could have probably rented it from a buddy and instead I didn't know what to do. And I was like, well, the costs amortize if I do more pop-ups. And also I really don't want to go back to writing.

29:27So I was just slinging deep fried burritos and chicken sandwiches. And it was in that time that my cookbook got published and I sent a copy to Rhett and Link who I'd done one video with several years before. And their chief creative officer, Stevie, hit me up and was like, hey we got your cookbook this is exactly the type of food that we want to be making and the types of like the voice that we want to put out do you want to come in for an interview and I uh I came in it was literally like a 10 minute vibe check they're like cool you got a job wait they hired you on the spot yeah yeah they're like can you start tomorrow and so I just showed up and it has changed so much since that time I mean at the time I was the only I was the only culinary producer but insane that there would have been a culinary producer for a daily internet comedy show yeah uh and so i was kind of doing everything myself um and then we launched mythical kitchen as a standalone channel six years ago yeah yeah and then we just gradually started growing the team to god we have five full-time culinary producers outside of me now well so what's it like like doing early relatively early food content on youtube like are you like battling with the algorithm are you just like putting stuff out there and just hoping like because now you're it's a big production i mean you're looking at the art i'm sure you have like you have like a team of people looking at key art all day and i'm sure and like it's cool but like that back then it's like a different era like there's still a pretty robust television food world um you've definitely been a part of the demise of that world yeah credit take that tear it asunder but what's it like thinking about what like doing these productions for early relatively early YouTube yeah it it felt like there was almost no pressure in the earlier days of YouTube I think I'm also from a tremendously privileged position of working for probably the most stable you know YouTube company out there and when I started there they probably had 30 35 employees which is still huge especially for a YouTube company and now we're up to like 80 or 90 and so I was in a position where I knew that our floor was very, very high and that I was just coming in to sort of plus up the content that they were already doing, which I felt very well established and very able to do.

31:39But like I chose going to Mythical. I had a couple other sort of offers on the table to do TV, YouTube kind of things. I never wanted to be on camera. I was so violently uncomfortable on camera back then. Now it's assumed that everybody just like knows how to make a video. that wasn't the case uh 10 years ago and so i wanted to go somewhere where i knew i could learn from the ground up and so being with retin link just getting that like crash course in it by the time that we launch our own thing on mythical kitchen in january 2020 what a time to launch a new business venture um yes and no i mean also like people are watching a lot of shit on their phones yeah in 2020 but yeah like definitely some headwinds let's go back to what you just said about not wanting to be on camera.

32:26I mean, you're obviously talented. You have a lot of fun doing it. I can't imagine a universe where you wouldn't want to be on camera. Dude, that's so funny. I said this to our publicist a couple days ago. She said the same thing. She was like, I can't imagine a world in which you didn't. But it was never me, man. I had no performance ambitions. I had never done anything like it. The thing about writing is it's such a private and frankly kind of intimate act. you're there with your own own brain for hours on end yeah torturous as it may be i um i've kind of just started saying yes to everything that frightens me which is very cliche and maybe a very la woo thing to say but we had a guest named vic michaelis on last meals who stand-up comic improv comic uh actually only improv i don't think vic has ever done stand-up right but they are so so passionate and evangelist about improv and i think they're one of the most talented in the world at it and they're like have you ever done improv comedy and i said no it's one of the biggest fears that I've ever had.

33:24And they're like, great, you're doing a show with me. And so I did. And they dragged me up stage with Lisa Gilroy and Oscar Montoya and Angela Tarantana. What has been described as a murderer's row of improv comics. And some of my best friends in the world from, you know, 20 years ago flew in to watch it. And I was talking to them after and the show was great. Vic was wonderful. They all just propped me up. It was like playing basketball for the first time with the 92 Dream Team. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So just throw the lob and Charles Barkley will punch some Angolan guy and dunk it. But anyways, I was debriefing the show with my friends, drinking some beers.

33:55And I was like, looking back at me in high school and even college, would you have ever thought that I was capable of doing something like that? And they were like, no, man. This is an entire face turn for you in a way. But in a way that feels really good and it's very exciting. It's cool to put yourself out there. And you clearly did that a decade ago when you got on camera for the first time. Are you doing like UCB stage one, stage two, stage three? Are you going fully in this improv world? No, I think I'm a one and done guy. You're a one and done. If there's any, yeah, I don't know, charity improv shows that we can trot me out for, that'd be fun.

34:28No solo nights at Elysian. No, no, you're not doing that. That's exactly where the show is at the Elysian though, yeah. Love that theater. It's great. I like am not like into New York comedy at all, but I, whenever I'm in LA, I always go to Elysian if I can. Oh, really? I don't know why. I just think something about, it's so LA to me. Dude, a lot of these LA theaters, like they have their, they're kind of like shtick and their niches that are awesome. Elysian's doing awesome stuff. Dynasty Typewriter is another one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's so cool when we have so many friends doing stuff. So interesting.

34:54No, I think if I had more time, I'd want to do some improv training. Annalise, I'm going to put her on blast. She did improv one. Dude. It was so awesome, man. Dude, Annalise in the studio, not mic'd up. Your executive producer, amazing human. Props to Annalise. Yeah. Hey. We'll do a little. We'll do a little. No, she was. Yeah. She was the MVP, too. I felt like I found out what kind of sports dad I'm going to be. Oh, yeah. I was watching Annalise and people utterly dropped the beautiful assists that she lobbed up to him. I'm like, come on, that was a perfect setup. Yeah, well, you know, it's like some Phil Jackson shit, you know.

35:28Exactly. Definitely running the triangle for improv. All right, we got to talk about Nicole, who I fucking love. Yeah, she's wonderful. Your co-host on your podcast, A Hot Dog Is A Sandwich. And when you guys are thinking about the show and like these topics, are you guys like are figuring out topics you can like truly fight about? Because I feel like those are the best episodes. You're like it's like brother sis. And there's definitely some strong opinions. Oh, yeah. Don't hold back, which I love. No, 100 percent, man. And, you know, she and I are both Jewish in the way that, you know, you get constantly kibitz and you kibitz and all that.

36:03And so when we were thinking of ideas for the podcast, it goes back to that, like, write what you know. You know, do a thing that you know you could do ad infinitum forever. And me and Nicole would just always argue bullshit about food in the kitchen. And so we're like, what if that's the whole podcast? But then so many ideas now will literally come from, you know, I'll say something like, I hate the concept of a steak. She's like, you hate steak? I'm like, no, no, it's not that I hate steak. It's like I hate a steak. Because when you say a steak, you mean like, you know, it's just seasoned with salt and pepper and it's a very American concept.

36:37And she's like, you're just doing this to be a con—we'll do a podcast. Put it in the Google Doc. Exactly, yeah. Come back to it. So now we've literally had just a Google Doc of arguments that we've had. Do you feel that way about the steak? Yeah. Do you feel like the concept of a steak is like outdated and just antiquated? Yeah, 100%. I hate it so much. It's not even—it's just anachronistic. The whole idea of the British pillaged the world for spices and decided they wanted none of them. This idea that so many people have, there's no more mythologized food than steak. You can't put anything on it other than salt and pepper.

37:11It has to be cooked medium rare. A lot of steaks really benefit from cooking past medium rare. And marinades, as we mentioned about the Vietnamese marinade. 100%. Yeah, just kissing the eshtabari way. Props to them. Sure, and there's a time and place and wonderful, but to act like that is the only way to cook that particular part of an animal. And even then, trying to describe to somebody who's not American what is a steak versus what is beef is really interesting. Because you're like, there's special parts of the cow that we cut out here that don't match the way that you cut out your cow, that we call them a different thing, and you can only do one thing with it or people get mad on the internet.

37:54It's really tough. Is that the Burbank steakhouse guy voice? Yeah, exactly. Like explaining the way that Burbank does steak and God damn it, there's only one way to do steak. At the Smokehouse in Burbank. Have you ever been there? I've heard about it. They got the George Clooney booth. I think it's where Tarantino wrote Reservoir Dogs. They have the orangest garlic bread and the food is bad. So is that from Peppery? What is the orange on the garlic bread? I think it might be. It's so funny. I just tried to recreate this. I just use cheddar cheese powder And I think that might be what they're doing Wait, stop I think it's cheddar powder But Parmesan Like no Parmesan on the garlic bread We gotta go I mean, it's day glow orange Like it's not something natural Or it might be an auto extract But yeah, it's not like they're using Just a grass-fed butter on it That's crazy Well, we gotta talk about Last Meals I feel like the Tom Hanks episode You're seventh And you have over a hundred now Yeah Season coming out I mean, the dude rolls up in a Prius, which is like, ew.

38:54What's it like? I mean, as somebody, and you've painted this picture of your history, you're very humble, and it's not like star-fucking LA. It's really in the weeds about food. You're like Tom Hanks rolling up. What's that like? That was crazy, man. The funny thing about launching a celebrity interview show is like, all right, all we need to do is find a celebrity. Who wants to be the first? It's a tough sell. Yeah, first ones are hard. It's hard. And so we had, you know, like Maria Bamford, I think guest number two. And she's like my favorite standup of all time. Like truly one of the Rushmore of standup.

39:28A hundred percent. It's so inventive and open. And she lives like a mile and a half from the studio because it's L.A. And so they're always promoting stuff. And so getting her in and Corbin Blue, who was on Broadway at the time. And like those early memories were so, so awesome. I'm so grateful to them. And inexplicably, I guess number seven is Tom Hanks. and so we were like okay this is a huge moment for us none of us believed that he was going to show up we were literally like until he's in the booth yeah we still think somebody's playing a prank on us we're going to get glitter bombs we say the same way about booking this show yeah celebrities will bail yeah yeah with frequency and it happens sometimes and that's totally fine uh but that was such a big moment for us and a way that everybody just stepped up to the plate that day even from you know a guest handling standpoint of like you know we have a 23 year old person whose job is talent coordinator that I think we made up that title when we started the show and we're like you ever see Forrest Gump great he's gonna be here tomorrow uh here's what we're doing they're like I watched him in this animated show when I was seven yeah yeah yeah yeah I think the touchline was Polar Express yeah yeah the youngins and Tom Hanks is different yeah but different I think that was the moment that at least in my mind I was like I think we have something really really special here and I think this is something that can go for a long time and And I think we're up to maybe 112 episodes now.

40:48And tell us about the show. And I'm linking to it in the show notes, obviously. You've got to check it out. I'm a huge fan of it. Thank you. And really this idea of the last meal, which is, I mean, back in 2015, like it's part of like food media. Like what is your last meal? I mean, it's truly one of the worst questions you can ask. It really is. And I say that only with respect because you've been able to take this idea that everyone kind of thinks about on an interview, bad podcast and stuff. You've been able to make it into a universe of empathy. yeah yeah and and really it's not just riffing and having fun but like thinking about mortality like was that a surprise to you it was a surprise to me only because the origins of the show were me cooking my own last meal on a one-off episode on youtube we're kind of just a little bit trying to play the algorithm of like what's a fun way that we can almost trick people into watching me cook food you know my last meal that feels kind of salacious but then i started to really really think about it like what would be in that last why is a shrimp cocktail a part of my last meal I feel like I don't even like shrimp cocktail all that much especially given the steakhouse stuff that is talked about uh but then I realized that that was the food that my dad always held to be the marker of success in life is if he could afford a shrimp cocktail and so I started to get very sentimental as I'm just cooking on camera making a carne asada burrito and talking very seriously about you know grief my dad passed when I was 19 and how we kind of hold these memories in food and I was almost worried that all the commenters were going to be like yeah you don't need to trauma dump while you're making a burrito man yeah like sucking up puss from the culinary bro down days culture has changed but all the comments were like I love the way that you're speaking about death mortality existentialism especially as it relates to food we would love to see other people do this and then there's this light bulb moment like you said that question had been floating around ditto with it's a hot dog a sandwich so we're kind of playing on these memetic questions and experiences, but nobody had explored the question in what I thought was like a very fully fleshed out way of if you are eating one last meal, what are the memories in your life that you want to revisit via food?

42:56Uh, Bria Savarin, God, I'm so pretentious. Yeah. Bria Savarin said, show me what you eat and I'll tell you who you are. And I think that's what we end up with on the show. And it's, it's beautiful watching people have realizations that they didn't know even exist in their head we had matthew lillard on which is i was gonna ask you about that one because our producer clayton we were talking about this interview and he said you got to check out matthew lillard hell yeah and i went to it and i actually just went right to the comments so i'm gonna read a few comments matthew lillard episode um why is this like watching therapy the masculinity in this room is exactly what you need more of exclamation point His role in 13 Ghosts is underrated.

43:37Agreed. Agreed. What a movie. What a movie. And then the last 10 minutes of this felt like I stepped into a boxing ring with no practice, which I think just shows you this range of emotion and kind of this like you don't really know where you're at with the guest. And I love the Matthew episode. You know, I'm really not a huge Matthew Lillard guy, but like he clearly was going through some stuff. I'm going to link to that episode specifically because you should check it out. So, you know, what's that like with Matthew in the booth when you're talking about him and kind of having great food, too?

44:08It was great food. But I remember he used the phrase, yeah, I don't really have an emotional connection to food. And immediately when he had his dad's steak and eggs on the menu and when he saw the steak and eggs, he started crying. And I was like, it's so funny that he didn't think he had this emotional connection to food. And I think maybe he's right. He has an emotional connection to his dad, but it's through that totem of food that is so special to all of us. And so that moment in particular was just like something inside of me clicked. But you never know what state of mind you're going to get a guest in.

44:47You never know if somebody even knows what the show is in its entirety or if it was something their publicist booked and they're just showing up. I was wondering about that. Do they come in just like totally without knowing anything about it? 100%. And I think Matt was more on that side. He's a super busy guy and he's been in the industry for forever. But I remember walking into the green room to meet him, which is always, I'm sure you know, such an interesting, that first meeting. You kind of have to nail it in a way to set the tone. Absolutely agree. And we walk in and he just goes, I'm not fucking telling you my last meal, man.

45:17I ain't never going to die. Fuck that, dude. What's up? I'm so excited to be here, man. Thanks for having me. Yeah. And it was just like, oh, this person is an absolute firecracker in wildcard and it could go anywhere. and I'm so excited to almost just pay witness to it. And sometimes you just, you let the forest fire burn in an interview and you don't try and control it. And that was Matt Lillard. And it was just so beautiful. He came in offering so much of himself in a beautiful way. It's a great episode. I also like the great trick of you brought up a burrito from Orange County to the set. And like right away, you're like, even if he was like not having a great day, you're like, okay, these guys mean business.

45:58Do you do that a lot? Do you bring props and bring in stuff for guests? Yeah, that's kind of the show's evolved so much that, you know, occasionally we had like the actress Ella Purnell on the show from Fallout and Yellow Jackets. And I found out she did a like an Eastern European toffee fake commercial when she was seven years old. And it was dubbed in all of these different Eastern European languages. And she posted on something on Instagram like 13 years ago. That was a clip. and it had the jingle is Puno Zabave Kriju Tofife in Croatian and I like said something to her I was like do the words Puno Zabave Kriju Tofife mean anything to you and she's like why do you know that what's going on and she's like oh my god I haven't had a Tofife in years and then you pull out the box of Tofife and then you use that as a way to be like what was it like as a child you know yada yada and so we kind of if we have that in the bag we do try and surprise people with the it's great well produced show credit your team yourself for being creative and actually going that extra mile i think it really shows and like uh it leads to a question i have is like in this era and we're gonna go do like we're gonna do a little media talk to close out this because i think let's do it you really have a great career to answer this but like you guys like really focus on production and you really research your guests um you get like millions of views maybe more yeah but then you've got the guy reviewing hot now in the back of his car getting like three million and like what how do you feel about like the backseat reviews and like truly this era of vertical video where production doesn't really matter as much and they're still getting in some ways um the same amount of attention yeah uh same amount of attention often a lot more into attention often a lot more money uh yeah and i'm totally fine with that i yeah i want to be so much more focused on the process than the result you know somebody told me earlier in my career like was it the writing is the price you have to pay for the joy of reporting it's like the joy of reporting that's what you're in it for man true you know i don't think either of us got into this to be rich dude i don't think either of us would have survived in the world of finance which is how i've learned it's pronounced in new york yeah Yeah, like just the vest alone.

48:10Yeah. Like I run a little hot, so I don't think I could even wear the vest. Quarter zip, it feels, you know, I don't want to be fully in zip. But anyways, I just love the actual work that I do so much. And I think you have to trust that ultimately good work is going to win out. And I know a lot of people who do the backseat reviews and they're kind of picking up the mantle where a lot of food journalism left off. And I think people throw around the term influencers if it means anything these days. but it's such a broad term and yeah there's people doing garbage work there's people doing great work and i knew people doing garbage work and great work 10 years ago i think everything that's old is new again but for me i just trust so deeply in the fact that if you make something that is good and beautiful and enduring and is nourishing to your own soul to work on that's going to find a way to rise to the top even with last meals like you know it's a youtube show we call it that but we're on peacock yeah you can just go to your peacock app and we're next to parks and rec yeah and you're at the upfronts this week like you're going to a presentation so like this is clearly television and television and like you're getting better ratings in cnn most of the blocks there a majority of people watch our show on televisions too yeah uh so you know we're seeing like 40 42 percent of people on a big screen tv are putting it on and so i don't know It's sort of my belief that if you just focus on the actual process and if you love it, and I do, we're actually out here shooting Last Meals.

49:38Unless he cancels, this is totally fine to say. God, I hope he doesn't. But Hugh Jackman on Thursday. And, you know, we're on the plane over here. My lead culinary producer is sitting behind me. And he's, like, writing notes like, do you want bolognese or marinara under the lasagna? And showing it to me. And we're like, I think, like, Australian. Australians seem to love bolognese. Yeah, yeah. So that comes from, like, post-World War II. Yeah. And we're just, you know, on a flight at 5.30 in the morning, just yapping about food. Riffing it. And you'd rather do nothing else, right? Exactly, yeah.

50:07I mean, this is cool you're taking down the road because it's such a production. There's a great behind-the-scenes episode for your 100th that you did. It shows the behind-the-scenes, and it's a really fun crew. I mean, this opens up as a new territory for you because this is your first time you're taking the show out of L.A. Is this something that you'd want to continue to do and go to the talent, so to speak? Yeah, that'd be the ideal. And it's, you know, we take a lot of inspiration from Hot Ones and I've known, you know, Sean and Chris and Justin, everyone there for years. And they travel a lot.

50:37And that's a big advantage they have. They're in like the hotel in like Wichita during filming of like some show. Yeah. And we could never do that, obviously, because our level of production is so much different. But we kind of just did this to challenge ourselves a little bit to see if it's possible because we'd never done it. And so ideally we would be able to, you know, if there's a big premiere in London or something, to be able to go out there and shoot with some people. But, yeah, it's sort of the next big experiment in what we're doing. I love Justin and Chris from Hot Ones. Known those dudes forever.

51:08dude what's up with Sean Evans I feel you're better I'm just saying let's start the me versus Sean grudge match let's do it man let's just clip this obviously no like I get Sean but like I just feel like you're more in it with the guest and he's a little more scripted I think you know we had Sean on Last Meals he had like an incredible episode he and I were talking about the subjects that we like you know do touch and don't touch and I know the way that Sean very much thinks about Hot Ones is that like, this is almost the career interview of record in a way that I think, I mean, the celebrities' responses speak for themselves.

51:46He gets so many guests by word of mouth because, you know, he's asking Vince Vaughn about the death of the mid-budget comedy in a way that, frankly, I would never ask a question like that because I don't have that sort of media brain. But in a way that so many of these actors love to talk about, I actually think that's one of my weaker spots is talking about actual career stuff. because I'm like, I don't care about all that. I care about your weird relationship with your uncle who passed away. And that's the immediacy and that's the empathy that I feel why I like your show a little better. No shade to Sean because it is definitely credit to him for getting the career retrospective.

52:20It's part of the media cycle now and they built a big thing there. But I just connect with this idea of going and having heart in the interview and there's a lot of it with you. I appreciate that. Not trying to create beefsteer. That's not our role. Let's have a who's more empathetic beef between me and Sean. That would be amazing. Like, no, I fucking have more empathy. Just the two of you. Like, it's so much. I obviously love, you know, what Sean does. I love the show that I make. But like, we'll get comments that are like, how does anybody watch this? This is depressing, man. I'm like, they're new.

52:56Yeah, they're new. I mean, let's talk a little bit. One last media question. Like, when you have five years from now, you're looking back. Like what's the next like top couple years going to mean? I mean, YouTube is crazy. There's algorithm changes that you have to face with. I mean, live is really big now. And I know you live, you do pay-per-views. Yeah, yeah. Which is ill. Like doing pay-per-views is like, it's like 90s wrestling stuff. Dude, I know. But like what do you think about for your business, like evolving it? Yeah, man, I want to do as little evolution as possible. Fair. I love that response.

53:32It's actually very honest. Dude, I respect that. I remember I was a big fan of the Deadspin, the greater gawker enterprise. And I remember when Deadspin went down. And a bunch of them relaunched as a defector. And I think it was a writer named Tom Lay who in an interview was talking about if you open a bar with your friends. Because if you open a bar with your friends, the goal should be to run the best bar possible and to make you and your friends' lives the best it possibly can be. your goal in opening a bar with your friends shouldn't be how do we sell this out to private equity in five years to then franchise bars across america one because then you're a weird soulless ghoul and two that's the worst way to make a good bar that people would then want to have and so thinking about the future right now with mythical kitchen last meals i want to make last meals the best show on the internet and the best show that we can make it i like how i look to annalise yeah an emotional moment yeah because i'm just so happy with the work that we're doing frankly I think the business side of it will almost figure itself out it it sort of has for us for the last six seven years and the way that there's new opportunity Facebook our the clips are blowing up on Facebook again Matt that was dead two years yeah yeah this pivot to video for podcasts you know like yeah we're watching it on there's there's the rise of podcasts there's the fall of podcasts and if you are constantly chasing the revenue streams you're not chasing the actual important let's call it art that makes those revenue streams bump and so we're just focused on putting the best hour-ish interview show out there continuing to innovate on the actual cooking side of what we're doing and let the mythical kitchen finance people let the finance people finance there's gotta be a finance wing that i didn't get to see when i was filming yeah we should have brought you to the finance finance they have like the row of vests there with the mythical kitchen it's like two smart people who went to real school people by the way tom lay author of an incredible article that i referenced in food iq he was basically just like fuck caramelized onions oh my god he wrote the caramelized onion article caramelized onion no way i love that shit that was such a great article it was just like you know fuck caramelized onions yeah yeah i was like thinking i don't know i'm saying this public because i think it's a great idea someone should actually on cbg like sell caramelized onions like i know we laugh because it's like we do it but like dude so many people don't want to do caramelized onions yeah are they like shelf stable i mean surely you could just you can do anything food science big degrees figure it out i mean think of all the different flavors you could do like your mirepoix i mean you could do like different like anyways this sounds like we we this is the this is the real financial future you and i cpd this is it on a recent episode of this is taste we visited colorado a state that has been quietly and then not so quietly building one of the most exciting culinary scenes in America.

56:21From Denver's Michelin-starred restaurant boom to the peach orchards and wine country of the Grand Valley, we visited to find out why Colorado is a serious food destination and came back convinced. Check out Taste Travels Colorado, episode 786 on the This Is Taste feed. This episode is brought to you by Rula. Finding a great therapist is hard. Finding one who actually takes your insurance, that's where most online platforms fall short. Rula does things differently. They work with over 100 insurance plans, so the average copay is just$15 a session. Real therapy from licensed professionals at a price that makes sense.

56:57They match you based on your goals, preferences, and background, with appointments available as soon as tomorrow. No wait lists, no runaround, just therapy that fits your personal needs. Rula patients typically pay$15 per session when using insurance. Connect with quality therapists and mental health experts who specialize in you at rula.com slash taste. That's r-u-l-a dot com slash taste. This episode is brought to you by Wayfair. I spend a lot of time in restaurants thinking about how the spaces work and sometimes don't work. One of my favorite dining rooms in New York City is Michael's in Midtown.

57:35It's so inviting. And there's all this incredible art on the wall from Frank Stella, Jesper Johns, and David Hockney. And here's the thing. When I went home to my own outdoor space, it was kind of the opposite. There was no atmosphere or vibe, just a boring table and chairs. Wayfair helped me find a new outdoor set in zero time. Wayfair offers every style for every budget. And with over 20 million verified five-star reviews, there's no second guessing. Plus, Wayfair Verified offers hand-vetted pieces and 10-point quality inspection, so you know exactly what you're getting before it shows up at your door.

58:12Get prepped for patio season for way less. Head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R dot com. Wayfair. Every style, every home. Wayfair. Every style, every home. On This Is Taste, we have guests and brothers learning taste. So to close the interview, here's a little rapid-fire Fast and Furious taste check. are you ready? Absolutely. The best fruit? Mangosteen. Nice. I like that. I meant Rambutan, not Mangosteen. I meant Rambutan. Rambutan, Mangosteen. They're both great. But why Rambutan? I just, God, I love the like lychee, longan, Rambutan family. They just have such a beautiful floral note to them.

58:53They're fun to eat, fun to peel. The worst vegetable? Celery. Tastes like pennies. I don't like it. It's penny water. But you cook with it almost never almost never really i i've like tried to like it i made like uh braised celery bear bear joule you know just trying to like it and at no point do i ever really enjoy it really so even for like a base you're pulling it out of there and it's like trinity yeah i'll leave it in trinity even mirror plus sometimes i'm like i don't know that i need the celery in there kind of think that way it also smells really weird when you're cooking it you know it's just you don't need it i'll use swiss chard stem that's a crazy thing that's a cool thing you know Celery adjacent, but better.

59:31Much more salt and minerality in that stem than celery. There's something weird in the pH of my saliva that makes celery taste bad. What is your typical breakfast? I make almost the same protein shake every morning. I come in after the gym, and it's a whole cup of Weidman's frozen blueberries, the best wild frozen blueberries in the game, and then some Faye Greek yogurt, the same protein powder I've been drinking since I was 20. It's called Gold Standard 100 % Whey. it was the Costco protein powder back in the day and I'm addicted to the taste blend it up, I like to start my day pretty fresh, and then on the weekend sometimes I'll go to Larry's Chili Dogs Best Breakfast Burritos in LA whoa, is that out in Sherman Oaks?

1:00:13Burbank actually my whole life is just between Sherman Oaks and Burbank I mean that's the way, it's your nesting phase yeah truly what's the best dessert? eau flotant, what a crazy bowl yeah, love that I'm so used to asking lightning round questions and not used to answering them. You're doing it, buddy. You're rolling. Yeah, I know. When's the last time I had Eel Flotant? I don't know. Never? Never, ever. It's wonderful. Yeah, when you can get it, like, tableside. Yeah. Like, doing it, yeah. Who does it in New York? I gotta get it tonight. I feel like Le Vodore. Yeah? Those guys probably have it on there.

1:00:46Or there's a new restaurant that has something called The Dome. It's a brand new. It's in the brewer, the brewer museum. It's called The Dome. This is a noun? Yeah, yeah. Dome, it's like a dessert? It's a dessert called the Dome, which I'm like. I'm in. Welcome to Thunderdome. Exactly. A restaurant you wish you could bring back from the dead. Oh, this one's easy. It's called Nightshade. May Lynn's Restaurant. Man, I feel like that ended an era. It was so like auteur driven. It was her life. It was her passion. It was the thousand layer lasagna with prickly ash bolognese and like whipped silk and tofu.

1:01:28It's one of my favorite dishes of all time. Like Hong Kong curry toast. It was smoked trout, this caramelized allium smoked trout roe dip. It was just, the desserts were beautiful. And then, and I love Mae. She's so talented. She has a hot chicken restaurant and a steakhouse. Definitely. And I hope she's making so much more money and happier. Dude, Mae's an amazing person. Yeah. And just a talented chef. I love. And she's a Michigander. Is she? Like myself. I didn't even know that. I love that about her. Great answer. When you're craving fast food, where are you going? Depends on the fast food.

1:02:01You've got to break it up into a couple categories. Fair for a Southern California guy. In and out. In and out has to be it. I went there on my birthday after drinking. This is the worst thing I've ever drank. I wanted to make, you know, Ferrari shots? So it's Campari and Fernet. Shake and board. It tastes terrible. But it's that kind of fun bartender, sand shake. I ordered Ferrari shots, and the guy came back, and he was like, I'm so sorry, we're out of Fernet. And so we had Campari mixed with screwball peanut butter whiskey. And we ordered 20 of them. This sounds actually really good. I don't drink either.

1:02:35It's one of the craziest combinations you've ever had in your entire life. But anyways, drank a bunch of that and then went to In-N-Out immediately afterwards. And that's another fun thing. But I still love Taco Bell too. Wait, were your old UCLA roommates, the 24-year-old Italians, at the party? I feel like they were probably ordering these shots. No. No, God, what did we drink with them? Oh, you know what? They were kind of obsessed with Americana because they moved here for a reason. And so they would drink exclusively Long Island iced teas and AMFs, which is a blue Long Island iced tea. Oh, shit.

1:03:06I mean, LITs for the Europeans is quite a monstrosity and kind of great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. With bud bottles, I'm sure. Yeah, of course, of course. Because that was the fancy imported beer for them. Indeed. A couple more. Your favorite city outside of America to visit for food. Favorite city outside of America to visit for food. I was so impressed with Cape Town and with the produce specifically in South Africa. Oh, my God. The best avocados I've ever had, and they're grown out in, like, Limpopo. I was just so impressed with all the food there. I think I had nine different creatures that I'd never eaten before in my life, including a bunch of wonderful seafood, South African crayfish.

1:03:43Yeah, man, I love Cape Town. I love that rack. That's cool. I've never been. Love to go one day. Last one, your favorite sandwich. Favorite sandwich. let's say cheesesteak, man. Cheesesteak from Angelo's, families from Allentown. No, cheesesteak from the Brass Rail in Allentown, Pennsylvania. We're going with a Lehigh Valley-style cheesesteak with the marinara and the pickles on it. Lehigh. That's cheesesteak. It's funny that Philly owns a cheesesteak, but if you head out into Easton or into those parts of... There's damn good cheesesteaks out there. And they do funky, weird little things. I didn't know that cheesesteaks didn't come with pickles and marinara sauce on it for forever.

1:04:26Because that's what I grew up doing out in the Bethlehem, Emmaus, Allentown area. Oh, so that's your fam up there? Yeah, yeah. My whole dad's side of the family is from Allentown area. And they're still out there, so we'll go visit. I love it. Well, Josh, please, will you come back soon? I would love to, man. I need to, almost every time I come to New York, it's for some sort of work thing. So I never actually get to eat and enjoy myself that much. I have to, though. Spend a week here, you know, bring the jacket, bring your elastic pants. Let's just go. Bring my thickest vans possible. You're wearing vans around the city.

1:05:01I love it. So, so, so. My wife goes, be mindful of the weather with your shoe choice. And I said, I only own vans. So we're here, man. Well, it is raining today. So good luck with the puddles. God bless. Josh, thank you so much for joining This Is Taste. Thanks for having me.

1:05:19This is Taste is hosted and produced by Eliza Abarbanal and me, Matt Rodbar. The show is edited by lead producer Clayton Gumbert and supervised by Pat Stango, director of media production and development at Penguin Random House. Thanks to Shalia Harris and the production team at Penguin Random House. Theme music by Steve Rydell. Episode portraits by Louise Zergon Pomeroy. logo designed by Ellie Skrzat and Ian Dingham. Visit Taste Online at tastecooking.com and make sure to subscribe to our newsletter to keep updated on all cool things in the world of taste.