792: Vibe Coding Your Restaurant Recs Map Is the Worst with Eater's Nadia Chaudhury

27:46The man walks around the city and bikes around the city finding places. There are definitely experiences that are not good. but like we're just walking around and like checking out a place there's like something very heartening about just going to a random anonymous place it's like that happenstance and that wonder of happenstance we went to my husband and i were in salt lake city recently for a music festival and this is this is what i do this is how i get out of the like over planning things i have he picks where we're gonna go yeah uh which is nice and we ended up at like we ordered tacos from one place uh taquera familiar and the tacos were great yeah and then we went to like a supermarket uh like i think it's like a salt lake city or utah chain or rancho marco market um and we had awesome tacos and it's not it wasn't those these places were not on my radar on my personal radar you know and i loved that and like we had such great meals yeah and there is something to be said about i and this is a good reminder of me like i have to be better about that Just like wandering and like deciding instead of planning ahead of like where I'm going to go.

28:51Just do it. Just find it. Like let it happen. I know. It's like it's like a little contradictory to what we recommend, which is like reading editorial and having lists and like. But like there is something very cool about just popping in and checking something that's new that looks promising. You don't want to waste time and money, though. That's that's like the paradigm. And that's the thing. But then sometimes it happens. Sometimes happens. Sometimes it happens. We just have to agree that it will happen if you're going on these serendipity vibes. And also you just like you just get to maybe meet like people who aren't like embedded in like food, the food chef world.

29:22Yeah. We're like operating these places who are just like doing their job and having a lot of pride and doing interesting food. Exactly. Next story. Kind of the opposite end of the spectrum, to be honest. Faux is a real McNally restaurant by Joshua David Stein. And that is in New York Magazine. It's a profile of George McNally, son of Keith, veteran of Balthazar's Bar Program. He's doing shifts every couple of weeks. Interesting nugget from there. And self-described sufferer of imposter syndrome. Appreciate the candid nature of that. And opening this restaurant, which will be kind of launching and try back in the summertime.

29:58The name is partially a typographic preference. George likes X's and V's. And by his own admission, it's a restaurant that has a long shadow. I'm interested in Joshua's profile here. Because I think he definitely got some great lines about the raise. It was a$1.5 million raise. And George is very honest about basically bothering a bunch of people to get the funds. But he notes that Keith is not really behind it. It's on his own, which I respect. The menu feels kind of like deliberately crowd-pleasing. There's steak frites. There's mussels. There's halibut, a burger with a special sauce. Kind of Mediterranean, to be honest.

30:43I like this profile. I like the brevity of it. I think Joshua can write long. He's written for us and he's a really terrific wordsman. But I like the way this was very concise. And I want to know George a little bit more. Maybe he'll come on the show when this opens. What do you think about a McNally opening a restaurant who is not Keith? It's interesting. I mean, it's that like there is a bit of like people are going to go to the restaurant because it's a McNally. And like we know this, right? Like no matter what. Um, it, it, it'll be interesting to see how it differentiates itself from McNally's seniors, uh, empire.

31:22It's interesting. I've never had an experience with the McNally restaurant until like coming back to New York and went to Balthazar and I was like, oh, okay, I get why people are into this. Like, is, you know, like very comforting, very hospitality driven. I'm curious to see if George's restaurant will have, I mean, and I know he'll strive for that, you know? I mean and you have the McNally name behind you yeah it's good you know like there's something inherently like and I understand that he's doing this on his own but inherently it's yeah it's going to be interesting to see how the critics respond I think we have very good critics we're at a really great moment right now with New York City restaurant critics I believe he will be given a fair shot but I think there's going to be some extra attention given to this place definitely will because as much as you don't want to make the comparison the comparison is going to be there it's unfortunate for him but it's his name not in the story but Andy Bergani's new restaurant I'm very curious about that I'm very very very curious I really enjoy his cookbook he shops at Calustion's often too I'm pretty sure there's a photo of him in the cookbook I'm very very curious about that good location interesting name Yeah, great.

32:40Ditto? Ditto is a cool name. I really like the name. I like that it's casual, no reservations for the jump. But you know there's going to be a line. You know there's going to be some kind of buzz around it. But, like, you know what? They've thought about it for a while. And I think that the style of service and the flow is something that obviously we have top of mind. Yeah. I'm feeling, and Andy told me about this a while ago, but I haven't talked to him in a minute. So this is just, like, my interpretation. I think there will be a grab-and-go component. It's got it for that neighborhood, too.

33:07And the way it is, because you have so many offices, you have all the colleges, you have people hanging out at the park, honestly. 100%. Going home after work for a quick dinner, hopefully keeping that price point in a place that can be manageable for all New Yorkers. I can't wait. I'm excited. I'm excited. That was a little breaking news in some ways. All right, last story is a good one. new East Village restaurant threads Korean and Italian culinary lines. You wrote this for Eater. It's from the chef Suchil Yang. And he describes the food as 70 % Korean and 30 % Italian. A restaurant's called Sono.

33:48Opened on May 16th. I have not been. I've been to a bunch of new spots. To be fair, I haven't yet. I have, again, a very, very long backlist and I've been traveling. But this is a perfect example of the kinds of stories I love writing. because I saw like again like I'm sure like with sourcing like so I learn about restaurants from a mix of PR a mix of Instagram a mix of people telling me things a mix of reading other food publications obviously um and I'm pretty sure this was like PR pitch and I was like reading and I do read everything even if I never reply back to you I read everything sorry I read my email absolutely and I read this and I'm like oh this sounds like this could be a really interesting story especially now like again the East Asian the Tokyo coming into New York kind of thing Tokyo the pizzeria you're talking about the pizzeria the studio Tamaki did I say that right?

34:41pizza studio Tamaki or some arrangement of those words I always get it confused and I have it in my head I did not have a good meal there I had a good meal yeah so there you go this is how it goes and when we went to Japan like I very deliberately was like I don't want pizza in Japan really? like Like, why? Yeah. But, like, having – sorry. But, like, I had other priorities. But we had a good – my friend and I had a really good meal, actually. See, I want to have pizza. This is great. This is why Food Rare is talking about food. We have different opinions. Like, I want to have pizza in Japan. Like, I really want to go to Savoy.

35:13Like, I've always wanted to go there. I just want to see how it's, like, you know, these chefs think about naturally leavened pizza doughs and their own milling and stuff. But this is why we talk. Yeah. There was like something with the dough was just – it was springy with a little sourness in a nice way. You liked it? I was not – like I liked it way more than I thought it was. Yeah, yeah. I thought the pizza was super dry and like there was not good flavor development in the crust. So we had a different – Interesting. This is why pizza is hard. It's like different days. I was with another writer and we both kind of agreed on that.

35:46Yeah. I mean tell me about this menu. An early observation is like when I was in Korea about a year ago and, you know, Italian food there is big. Like it's been big for a while. And it's not like a fusion-y style. It's like pretty traditional like trottoria style cooking. Maybe small flourishes with herbs and things that maybe like you can only get in, you know, Korea. Like little elements and garnishes. But mostly like traditional Italian cooking. it's good so i mean great pastas in korea uh what is this what does this say to you like 70 korean 30 italian very interesting i like because the way he kept and also i had such a pleasant interview with him he was so passionate about what he's talking about he went on and on about the dishes and like it's a reflection of himself like in his like culinary career because he did work in italian restaurants for so long but then also he's korean right so he wanted to just like I don't know there's like a beautiful distillate it's this restaurant has hit the embodiment like the physical manifestation or the edible manifestation yeah I don't know what that right phrasing would be of like his career and his desires and like I love the way he thought about like when he was building out the dishes I like in figuring out what would be the Italian components and what would mesh well with the Korean components and what are like the comps like in Italian dishes and in the Korean dishes.

37:11And like that, it was a very scientific but also poetic way that he built the menu. And just like, again, that passion, when someone talks about that, and it's that like, like that real way of talking about things rather than parroting like media lines or PR lines or something like that. There's something beautiful about that. Like him talking about it made me so excited and it made the story like that much better. Like you can tell, like, I love it when you have like a really great interview and you can tell in the article when like that interview was like that was a great interview. I know. It's optimism.

37:46You walk away from those conversations. So Yang's resume runs. He was at Gramercy Tavern, Wojimi, and Maelino. So is that cool? There's a lot of Italian on that resume. I went to Oyat last night. Oh, what did you think? It was very interesting. And Eliza and I are going to chat about it for three things in more detail because I want to get to some other things here. But a reminder, this is from Hansung Lee from Culinary Class Wars, the runner-up of season two. Impossible reservation. I was blessed this from our friends in PR. Thank you for the reservation. And it's not Korean restaurant, I'll tell you that.

38:23No, and it's interesting because I did the soft preview testing out stuff. So it was very interesting. I was like, I'm still – did they still have the scallop? I really like the scallop. Yeah, very, very, very good scallop. Two floors, like progression, tasting menu, three hours. Hudson Valley Farm is at the center of it. I guess I will talk a little bit about here. I have a bunch of, I have like a page of notes that we're going to go over. But I like it. Like this is like very interesting to see a chef that has a classical background, like geranium, Gramercy Tavern. like really interesting resume and you're seeing it flexed you're seeing northern european inspiration you're seeing farm to table gramercy tavern obviously they have a farm in hudson valley so i'm i'm it's just like i had i thought of it right away because like thinking about how korean food is like a korean chefs is i would rephrase that and say this is a great moment to think about Korean chefs.

39:27Agreed, yes. And not Korean food. Right? It's, again, like, cooking is such a personal thing. Yeah. And developing dishes or, like, it is a reflection of yourself. So, like, that's actually a really beautiful way of putting it, honestly. I feel like, I mean, it's so exciting. Yeah. It's, I mean, I've been following this story for a long time. I'm just so excited that more and more folks are, and they're opening this one on 39th Street, like, in the middle block, like, crazy neighborhood. I walked by it. I didn't realize where it was. I love that. I was like trying to figure out and I was like, oh, okay.

39:59I love that. This is where it is with the little like Totoro-esque like garden-y outside, which made me so happy. I love it. These are the coolest restaurants, man. We have this segment that I want you to answer. It's what would you pitch 1997 Graydon Carter? The premise is 1997 Graydon Carter running Vanity Fair was offering contracts$200 ,000,$300 ,000 a year to write a couple stories. So you're getting a healthy budget. So Nadia, if you're given this opportunity, what would the story be? So would it have to be something for Vanity Fair or are I focusing on the budget aspect? I think in budget, good follow-up question.

40:35Okay. So this please do not steal any of my ideas that I'm talking about here. These are my ideas. Okay. My ideas. Yeah. Trademarked. Okay. So I'll do one because, again, my Texas-ness is going to show. My New York ideas that I really, really, really, really want to do, I want to do an exploration on Indo-Chinese food in New York City because I think that's a meshing that people don't realize is like a thing. Outside of like obviously if you grew up with it, like it's different. But Indo-Chinese was like always like our special treat, like going out food growing up. We had Indo-Chinese for my wedding and for my sister's wedding from the same caterer.

41:16Joy? Yeah. Shout out to Joy. People still talk about the food at our weddings. I would love to do just like a distillation because it makes sense of like obviously ventures stems from like South Asia and into here and just like there's such a good scene. And I would love to do like an entire package of history of that. Like send me to there. Send me there. Send me to India. Send me to Nepal. And then like going into the journey here and then it would be like an entire package like, you know, where to go and like key dishes and blah, blah, blah. Very cool. That would be my New York story. My Texas story is a story I started, but I have never.

41:51I would love to do. So like we all talk about New American, right? And there's like a version of that, like it's New Texan, right? Like so it's like New American, but with Texan dishes because Texas climate and produce is like a whole different thing than like New York or like than California. And I feel like there's a wave of new New Texan that I would love, love to dig into. like I have my example I have an outline of this actually like one day like I'll make it happen are we talking about uh is this from agriculture is this from shifting population it's shifting population it's a little bit of everything like agricultural yes because like again the seasons are different like yeah quail is more of a thing you know tomato season is so short strawberries are short you don't got chocolate down there yeah um and all of those things and then it is like you know the diverse the populations like um you have like like look at the beauty like you know the influences from mexico and from mexican immigration um you have southwest you have all the indigenous ingredients you have the growing population of like um in a lot of the cities um a lot of south asians like oh and there's more like you know and also like you know where chefs have been trained or chefs cooks have been training like you know a lot of like japanesey Oh my gosh.

43:05Because there's a lot of Japanese food in Texas. Oh my gosh. You know, like again, look at Uchi and like the national expansion, which is so fun. It's funny to me being like, because Uchi was Austin and now it's like this whole thing. And Uchi Co. Like they just opened in Philly or D.C. too, right? Philly and D.C., which is like mind blowing to me. Uchi Co was so good. I love it. I prefer Uchi. They're both good. They're both really good. You shouldn't pick favorites. I mean, the center of that is Houston. And Houston is like still an underrated, amazing food city. I really, really, really want us to go down there.

43:41Please do. I really want to do a Taste Travels Houston. Houston is, my husband likes to say this, because my father-in-law and stepmother-in-law live in Houston, so we would go there often for holidays and stuff when we were in Texas. Houston is basically like the Queens of Texas. Queens of the borough. Just like the massiveness and just like anything you want, you can find there. Oh, I mean the most incredible, like Korean, obviously Cajun. Vian Cajun is, oh my gosh. It's so great. And then like such polished Mexican cooking and fine dining settings, but also South Korea's and South Asian. So much good South Asian.

44:16And South Asian is a cuisine or genre or a culture that I've not explored there. And I've outlined it actually. I was like, we need to figure out South Asian cooking in Houston. It's lovely there. It's wonderful. We'll be emailing you for some recommendations for that one. Wow. So I feel like these stories need to... Please let it happen. Let it happen. This episode is brought to you by Quince. This time of year, I'm keeping things simpler in the kitchen. Lighter meals cooked with produce from the farmer's market, more last-minute dinners with friends. And it really makes me notice how much better everything feels when you love what you're cooking with.

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46:20They go with every occasion. Claim$10 off your first pair at goodr.com slash taste. That's G-O-O-D-R dot com slash taste. This episode is brought to you by Rula. Finding a great therapist is hard. Finding one who actually takes your insurance, that's where most online platforms fall short. Rula does things differently. They work with over 100 insurance plans, so the average copay is just$15 a session. Real therapy from licensed professionals at a price that makes sense. They match you based on your goals, preferences, and background, with appointments available as soon as tomorrow. No wait lists, no runaround, just therapy that fits your personal needs.

47:00Rula patients typically pay$15 per session when using insurance. Connect with quality therapists and mental health experts who specialize in you at rula.com slash taste. That's R-U-L-A dot com slash taste. On This Is Taste, we ask guests about the discerning taste. So close this interview. She has a little rapid fire, fast and furious taste check. Media edition. Are you ready? What is the first thing you read in the morning and where do you read it? Email. I go through my email. You like our inbox zero by morning? I'm not inbox zero, but I try to – I delete spam. I keep read things that I'm not going to reply to.

47:40It's a good way of getting breaking news, honestly, for me. Yeah. Because I subscribe to Gothamist. I subscribe to Hellgate. The City, I think, is one of the – New York Times, obviously. All the food publications that we have. So that and then I go through my Feedly because I'm still a Feedly girl. You're a Feedly person? Because it's a good – I miss when Twitter was good because that was what Twitter was for me. But Feedly is a good way of like going through and scanning through things that have happened. So it's all about getting its inbox in Feedly. Yeah. What do you read on actual paper, if anything?

48:15Magazine, girl. Yeah. I mean, I also have a big stack because I'm very behind on magazines. New York Magazine. New York Magazine. Bon Appetit. Food and Wine. Al. Cosmo still exists as a magazine? Cosmo. We haven't subscribed to GQ and Esquire. I need to renew those. Texas Monthly. I still subscribe here. I think those are the ones. These are great. Yeah. It's a great. I've been a New York Magazine subscriber, like, for a very, very, very long time. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I subscribed in college. Like, and when I was, like, in high school, I used to read New York Magazine all the time, too. Sure, you did.

48:55I had it in the household. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Did you have a favorite food publication growing up? It would have been, like, the food section in New York Magazine. And Time Out New York. Honestly, Time Out New York shaped a lot of my, like, dining out when I was in high school. like their cheap eats um edition like i am pretty sure i have early 2000s copies of that like hidden away at my parents house still like that like because it was such a night like it's again affordable for like a high school kid on allowance like where to go eat around the city and like fun stuff and just like incredible journalism happening there early 2000s into like the late to early 2010s.

49:38So much reporting. I used to write. And when I was able, I wrote for them for a while, too. That was like, it was so special. I loved writing. I used to write. I worked on. My first food writing was, I'll share this because it's a food writing show. I wrote about Queen's Hideaway in Greenpoint in like 2006. That was my first published writing. Oh, wow. It was in Time Out, New York. I loved that. I loved it. And I thought it's a great memory because I think back then, you know, there was a lot more competition in some ways with like scoops. And like they were like fighting out for like exclusives and scoops and making sure those features were really timely.

50:18Loved it. It was like real like news reporting. Yeah. And I love news. I love the hard like hard news reporting. It's like really fun. And there's a joy. And there's like a like I can write a story in five minutes if I have to and get it up. It's great. I love that part of Eater. Yeah. Eater is still very vibrant with covering news and go to the website, go to the app because it's so true. And subscribe to the newsletter. And subscribe to the newsletter. All right. We all have relationships with PBS food programming. Was there a PBS show that you enjoyed growing up? So we did not. I do. I never.

50:54We never. PBS was not part of our. I mean, was Sesame Street? It was. I'm sorry. It's also like an immigrant household. to like um okay so i'm pretty sure we watched last time we street but no i never really so my like i don't know this is not a secret or like my shame i don't really watch food reality shows i've never been that person i never watched cooking shows um yeah not a top chef like i you know i kept track when they were there was a texas season or when there was texas chefs um obviously i kept track here um yeah yeah never did yeah cool yeah uh where are you at with youtube tiktok and and all of this uh vertical video that we're seeing and all these backseat reviews and it's it's interesting to me because it's again it's playing off of that not watching food reality or food competition and shows like that i am very bad at keeping track i realize like i have not opened tiktok in a very long time and that's not a like i should actually because it is a good way of like keeping track of like what's happening and what's going on there and what's trending or like what's popping off yeah um so like i don't really and i'm not i don't like watching videos online yeah i don't like so like my my moving video-ness is like i'd rather just watch a tv show or a movie honestly or music video um so like i don't really like it is interesting because it but it is how people are consuming or like under learning about places with videos and stuff like that so i'm more interested in like what is it that appeals to people about that and like i do star in videos i guess or like i am part of producing videos for eater so it's that's my like way of getting yeah i'm learning how to like exactly or like what like comparisons of like what other people are doing or if there's a video that a co-worker says like this was so good i'll watch that like it's that like more direct recommendation rather than being fed something from the algorithm.

52:50Love that. Last one. Where do you want to be in five years of your media career? This is the question of the times. I don't know. I hope it would be so lovely in an ideal world. Like I'm paid like a billion dollars a week, right? Being able to deep dive into things like stories that I mentioned, that would be so much fun. Yeah. But then I also like there's that. But then I also know myself like I need to do like. But then also I really love editing other people's stories. I love like ideating. I also like I'm a photographer. I love like I miss magazine. I don't know. Like you asked me this. I was like I want to do everything everywhere all at once.

53:32Like I love designing. I love I don't know. But I would love to be able to do a deep dive and like really like take your time because I feel like everything is just so we our attentions are as people as writers. as reporters we have to do so many things at the same time that there is no luxury we we're not afforded the luxury of like really sitting with subjects or topics and like letting ideas and letting angles come to you rather than like going in with an angle and like making that happen if that makes sense it does and i think that hopefully in the future there'll be funding for these types of projects where there's a little less of a time stamp and like an urgency to publish quickly.

54:17I think in the magazine world because of lead time and of course where we sit here in books. Yep. Ultimate. A book would be nice. Ultimate slow food in a literary sense. A book would be cool. I don't know what I would write about, but a book would be cool. Yeah. Nadia, this has been a terrific conversation. Thank you so much for joining us. Of course. Thank you so much for having me.

54:40This is Taste is hosted and produced by Eliza Abarbanal and me, Matt Rodbar. The show is edited by lead producer Clayton Gumbert and supervised by Pat Stango, director of media production and development at Penguin Random House. Thanks to Shalia Harris and the production team at Penguin Random House. Theme music by Steve Rydell. Episode portraits by Louise Zergon Pomeroy. Logo design by Ellie Skirzat and Ian Dingham. Visit Taste Online at tastecooking.com and make sure to subscribe to our newsletter to keep updated on all cool things in the world of taste.

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