802: 200 Million People Watch Vikas Khanna Talk About Indian Food. Here's What He Couldn't Say on TV.

24:29Vikas Khanna:Nobody was coming because there was so much of uncertainty during that whole collapse. and Obama was the president. And I'm like, oh. Change is happening. Change is happening everywhere. And maybe we are going through a cycle. And then I think that is where I've felt that there has to be a bigger vision of Indian food. I went, I traveled to Himalayas after shutting down the restaurants. I wrote a big book called Return to the Rivers. But in France, while coming back, I was reminded that how Indian food or Indian chefs are not relevant, valid, legit. Time and again, I was told. Exactly what I was told in my cooking college, that you don't need to cook Indian food if you want to be great.

25:17Vikas Khanna:You need to be cooking European and American food. You heard that refrain in France. Non-stop. Non-stop, everywhere. Because no Indian chefs were on such a mainstream platform. The chefs in London have started receiving Michelin stars. but the change had to happen in New York and that is when I come back with a single mind focus, if that's the game then I'm going to win the game if that is you feel the great cooking has to have validation of a travel guide we're going to do that and that is where Janun happened and within 8 months and few days we got the Michelin which was a big change happening on the cuisine level I similar few weeks difference.

26:00Vikas Khanna:I was on MasterChef India. Wow. So the Michelin star led to you getting on MasterChef India? No, MasterChef India was happening. But you getting on it personally. But the broadcast happened right in a matter of few days. Got it. It got me an opportunity to speak to everyone back home, to a billion plus people that we have to be proud of our own cuisine to have a representation. Well, it's incredible when you talk about MasterChef India, you know, you've been appearing on the show for 15 years. 17 years. 17 years. Long. I only do one television show. Well, it's, you, you've been a judge. You've, you've, you've held these roles in like, you know, I walk into bungalow.

26:41We've never met. Maybe when at June Noon we met, but like, we don't know each other that well. And, and you're like coming to greet us like a very kind person. And while you're coming to greet us, you're stopped by four different people for photos. like in that period of like a minute and I watch uh you're gracious and you're just there's photos with almost every guest your celebrity in India is pretty intense it's intense it's I mean I have to ask you just having that visibility in this such a large place like what have you been able to tell the Indian people about food I mean you have deep influence in this in Indian culture

27:23Vikas Khanna:so I first of all the MasterChef show is watched by more than 200 million people a night so it's a cult show I don't do any other show I did one show on Fox just for a few weeks it was not easy for me to travel in India at all so I stopped doing it because if I can't reach the real people and there's so much of crowds gathering I lost that emotion of connecting with the local people who were cooking so that's why there's only one show I do it was a very important moment for me when for the first time I spoke about my journey on that show and I felt the repercussions to the colleges of India culinary colleges where I said I'll visit the college on a condition you have a culinary course on Indian cuisine my obsession with Indian food was so massive that almost became a rebel.

28:22Vikas Khanna:And I had to, I don't want to see everybody, and I don't want to hear anyone telling me, your cuisine is inferior than the Western cuisines. I'm like, for me, that is the pride. So we set up a lot of, I set up a big museum to celebrate Indian history of our utensils. I did an entire, this entire building which has been created for preservation and celebration of Indian cuisine back in my college. Like this is where I started from. I saw the change happen because you had the voice on that show where you could speak directly to every home back in India where you can tell them that it's such an amazing profession there was so much of humiliation and stigma attached to this profession it got me this moment where I live in New York and I'm representing Indian cuisine on the biggest stage but I could reach out to common people in India people like me from my kind of background and tell those kids that we need to be honest, authentic, pure, and celebrate trained for our own cuisine.

29:23Vikas Khanna:Because when you represent something which is continuity of your heritage, you become the main person of purpose. I mean, the idea that back before you started speaking out about Indian cuisine in America and its popularity and its influence, that in India, the culinary schools were not teaching Indian cuisine. I mean, there was like obviously traditions throughout India and especially regional cuisine. But was the profession of food just not considered serious for young people on their trajectory towards college? It has been like that. The colleges were set up. The syllabus was set up like that.

30:01Vikas Khanna:Yeah. But I do feel that what changed where, not me, I think the timing was such that I could push that agenda of celebrating India's diversity, celebrating that cuisine. that this is no less the sauces we create and no less than any of the sauces we've been taught in school. I feel they had not seen a global success of Indian food. So many families were not very agreeing to this idea. They weren't convinced that there was a market. They were not convinced that there was enough market. Even my home, when my father came to the dining table and said to my grandmom that he's choosing this profession, But what will he do?

30:45Vikas Khanna:He's going to work in the restaurant across the street. What will he do? So my grandmother said that what my father then, like, father was upset. I understand. He was feeling this is not a respectable profession in the 1980s. And my grandmother said, they were just talking. And I'm sitting on the table. I'm still young. I'm 17. And my father said, what is he going to do? Cook for American presidents. and my grandmother said one word, which means may this be. I am never going to forget that moment as long as I'm alive. And it happened. I felt that her faith was so strong of a child born into a free country to have a free voice to represent them to the world's largest stage.

31:32Fast forward to a few years ago and you prepare a state dinner.

31:37Vikas Khanna:Many times. I hosted four American presidents. But for me, the most important part was that you continued that honesty of Indian food. And now it's 26 years. I'm still holding the same faith, same excitement of getting into the kitchen, getting into the restaurant. It's everything to me. Yeah. I mean, 12 to 16 hours a day, every day in that kitchen. There's just, there has to be, you have to love this. the creativity, the service side of it? I mean, are there days when you just don't want to do it? That's every day. I'm so happy you're being truthful with that because it's not easy. It's not easy.

32:18I'm also getting old. And I feel that many people dismiss the idea that I'm starting a new restaurant at this age. And people who saw me, they're like,

32:28Vikas Khanna:oh, he's past his prime. And when you start a new restaurant, you're judged by the first day. and it takes a lot of ironing to reach those level of venue systems in place. I had a lot of people, even journalists, dismiss the idea that, oh, I think you're too old now to be coming back into the game. And I didn't want to come back into the game. I was happy. This was entire promise to my mom and my sister that I'll do this as a commitment for 10 years. 10 years. So the bungalow is a 10-year plan. This is what I promised my sister. Yeah. I'll step down. From daily operations, then I'll have people.

33:07Vikas Khanna:I'll continue to invest in Indian chefs, Indian products, Indian culture. Yeah. But it's not easy for sure. You got a ways to go, my friend. You got a few more years. Let's talk about the critical reception. I think it's interesting how some have said the food is too American, which is going to be the comment for a lot of places, a lot of food in the United States with lots of critics. But when someone says that, does it bother you? It does. Yeah. How do you internalize that? There's no dish in India which doesn't have a reference or back home to a dish. Yeah. There's no dish in Bangalore's Kitchen which we've ever prepared.

33:50Vikas Khanna:We just started a series of that we're going to continue doing 36 weeks following this week. That every week we'll celebrate one state and one union territory. The most iconic dish, it could be a very humble dish. But I don't buy that, that this is not, this is Americanized. The way we do the service, the way we give you wipes to use your hands, the way a lot of Indians like lemon in the water, we do that because it's supposed to be good for digestion. Basic Ayurveda, the way we serve our food, the way we give you condiments with the food. I think we are trend-make, like we are the trend. We are because we are so authentic.

34:35Vikas Khanna:We sell small bowls the way they serve in Indian homes. The way we serve you your Czech with a little bit of fennel seeds, little tamarind balls, little sweet, nostalgic. We are always celebrating some Indian festival. How could it be more Indian? Yeah, it's a really, really, really hollow criticism because I totally agree. I've been fortunate to visit India and have had many different styles of cuisine there. and I felt extremely connected to your style of service. Obviously, there's New York elements. The people serving are New Yorkers, like cool Gen Z millennial staff. I mean, it's not like formal service like you'd find in some restaurants in India, but the way the flavors are interacting on the plate.

35:17So you come to the table and you do a lot of your own service, which I love. It's very personal. And you're like, this is my doll. And I'm like, okay, cool. And I try it. I taste your dal. I've never had dal that delicious, so rich and complex, because I'm still trying to figure out what it is. It gave Mexican flavors to me, and that's just my palate. I'm interacting with it, and it's like more Mexico than India, but it was so delicious.

35:44Vikas Khanna:Also, one more thing is there that there are so many Indias. If you travel to India, you realize that how many Indias are in one country. Every one, every community, every culture. for us to have this is the I think the only restaurant with all my humility which unifies India on this stage and our 80 to 85 % of our clientele is Indian which is very rare now for modern Indian restaurants and you see four generations on the table three generations on the table how can it get more Indian when every generation I call it Shah Rukh Khan moment because Shah Rukh Khan is the only star in India where all the four generations know him.

36:26Vikas Khanna:Our grandmothers were in love with him, our mothers, our sisters, now our daughters. So it's that moment. How can food be more authentic when four generations are connecting to it? Tell me about the dal. So we call dal bungalow. This is inspired by the dal at the Golden Temple. While this is just inspiration, that dal is for me sacred. But that dal also taught me the power of patience. the dal has the most humble ingredients but it's a work of patience and love there are only six ingredients in that dal you don't feel heavy the only the way we end the dal is from my grandmother she used to add a little milk to it to make it lighter there's no cream in it, nothing that is what we see that people like and small bowls serving with a spoon you know all the fine dining we remove the spoons while in India a fork and knife is not such a big deal.

37:24Vikas Khanna:Spoon is. Yeah. Because there's a lot of liquid curries. So for me, that is absolutely a dal which hits home. It has that richness with that little bit of milk at the end, but it's still, I need to come back and try. I have like a lot of more questions. Priya Krishna gives you three stars for the New York Times. You have a Bib Gourmand. Which one is more gratifying or do you read those reviews? I read Priya Krishnan's review and I cried like a child I went to Grand Central

38:03Vikas Khanna:there were nights in my life where I had to sleep at Grand Central to save money for the subway that's right under the Apple store there was no Apple store that time it used to be a bar and lounge so I sat there and I read the full review and I cried like a child I feel somebody to notice it that you set the cuisine free, that you don't need the colonizer's validation of what is beautiful and what's not. You brought it back to its own people who own it. So for me, that little elements of subtlety of the writing and everything. And I was told many times, two stars Salaam Bombay, two stars Janun.

38:50Vikas Khanna:I was told Indian food, three stars are never going to be possible. Floyd got it in 1990s. But three stars is a very big moment. Yeah. And I'm such a paranoid guy. And like next year fly back to my mom to give her the newspaper. And she's telling me, it is not published in the local newspaper. I'm like, mom, just. Let me celebrate this mother. Let me celebrate. This is a larger paper than the local paper. This is going to be that things are changing. Things are being, I think the little box, the myopic box in which every cuisine was measured is now expanding. And people who are dismissive of that will learn later that there is no single standard for beauty or languages of songs or movie making of arts or books or novels or stories or people.

39:44Vikas Khanna:And so is the cuisine. why if you don't if there's so many languages people are singing in because I don't understand something I can't say this is dumb I just feel that there has to be little empathy little compassion to judge ethnic cuisines because they are civilizational they were built by so many immigrants that are much larger the cultures and the history of these cuisines are much older than the United States too like they predate anyone here American writing about whatever cuisine it may be. All I'm asking people is that have these big institutions to have empathy. And next time when they're sending inspectors, they should find a way to send somebody from the native cuisine.

40:28Yeah.

40:29Vikas Khanna:Have that person, give them a chance. We have a Bangladeshi restaurant in New Jersey which got stars from New York Times. And I am going crazy. I was just crying. I'm like, this is what change looks like. It starts from one person sacrificing everything year after year, failing after failing. And then one day you see that, oh my God, this is building up something which you never expected. Not your personal empire. This is a cultural empire. Which restaurant is that? Remind us. Korei's Kitchen. It's in Jersey? It's in Jersey. It's got three stars. Yeah. Bangladeshi restaurant. That's what change is.

41:07Yeah, absolutely. What do you think about your peers here in the U.S. and in New York? You know, you've got Chintan doing incredible work. Amazing. Marijuana Rani down in the South.

41:18Vikas Khanna:Amazing. Do you have a discourse with? I love it. I'm the first one to celebrate. First one. Yeah. So anyone who's gone through a journey like mine has seen so many decades of chefs coming and going also understands that you need to celebrate that present moment. Because it could be very short-lived. You need to celebrate. In this course, I've seen so many chefs come to spotlight and then finding new ways to express themselves. And it's not easy. New York is also very unpredictable. Yeah, it's a fickle town. I mean, the East Village is truly one of the most difficult neighborhoods too. I mean, like Fowl Witch closes.

41:56It's like truly one of my favorite meals in the past two years. And they can't stay open. You're doing okay. It's just a tough town.

42:05Vikas Khanna:but New York will give Indian food that light to shine around the world there'll be more investments happening in our cuisine in our chefs if the chefs in New York shine yeah give me one dish that has a real story I think the part of the meal I enjoyed the most was the storytelling and just the way you'd explain but I for our audience and you got to go to bungalow obviously to get the full experience. But give us one story. I'm going to tell you a story which not many people know. That when I went for my admission in the college, they called us for interview. I didn't speak English at all. And they told me to wait outside.

42:45And they laughed at me. And all that thing happened, a little banter. I mean, I knew they were making fun of me. But I had to play cool. That, you know, I had a small banquet and I make all these dishes and aunties give me a lot of tough time. I'm giving them all my little things about my cooking experiences, my diary.

43:03Vikas Khanna:And they send me out. I knew I'm not selected. And I go to a close by town. It's 10 minutes away. It's called Urupi. It's the mother of South Indian cuisine. And I go there and I go to the temple. And they're serving this curry of coconut and pineapple. and I silently prayed. I've never tasted food like that in my life. I have never tasted a real South Indian food. This is my first meal outside my hometown. And I prayed to Lord Krishna that give me admission. I'll take this dish to the world. And fast forward from 1991, 35 years, that dish of roasted pineapple and tender coconut curry is on the world map.

43:52Vikas Khanna:And I feel it has so much going on, yet it's so simple. It's, again, six-ingredient dish. If you look at bungalow dishes, we try to minimize the flavors to them. We intensify the natural flavors through cooking techniques. But that pineapple and coconut is, I say, one of the best. That's one of the best. So how do you find kitchen staff to cook these dishes? because you obviously are training and you're always there, but it's tough to find the right staff. We do a lot of training, but most of the staff has been with us before the opening and we have the same staff. But some of the chefs have worked with me in previous restaurants.

44:35Vikas Khanna:So they know it, that though we keep reinventing the dishes in our forms, we want to be originals, we want to be people who find a way to add a new favorite dish to people's memory or to the tables. but we are also very systematic in consistency is everything to me. Yeah, I know. More than great. I think if somebody asks you the greatness definition, I'll say the definition of greatness is consistency. Yeah. Doing the same thing again and again with so much love, with so much of grace and so much of same flavors. So for that, the training is predominant but also it's the same staff who knows we have few dishes we change Again, we have a new menu coming out.

45:20Vikas Khanna:But the staff remains the same. It's got to be nice to have loyal folks following you around. Also, same communication. They know how to deal with me when I'm upset. Yeah. Do you get upset? You seem like somebody who has a pretty even keel, but chefs are mysterious beasts. A lot of people for generations have watched me on television. And they see that you have a very calm demeanor on TV and you don't talk much, you don't criticize much. So kids have grown up watching that with their grandmoms when they visited India during summer vacation or they grew up in America. So you have to have the same energy when they see you.

46:02Vikas Khanna:This can't be a different person. So outside persona has to all the time that how happy you are to see everyone. Most of the people are coming to celebrate. This is a big moment for them to get a reservation, to get the family together. this could be one of the highlights of the entire life this picture could be their favorite picture for the family so my energy is a part of it so balancing myself out but when I get angry I get quiet I don't fight, I don't know how to fight I have to be very careful with the choice of my words because sometimes if I feel that somebody intentionally mistreated a guest or it is not up to the expectation of standard which I want to live my life and I want to live my last restaurant as a legacy behind I get quiet I don't speak after that and then it takes me time to and then the next morning whatsapp messages start next day I deal with it I just asked Jay off mic you're a long time business partner we don't have a mic for Jay so 20 almost 20 years 20 years accurate thumbs up thumbs down yeah thumbs up accurate no I think it's you play a character on TV obviously and you have to be consistent for that and it's obviously very much you but it's heightened on television you know when you have to be on camera you have to be a heightened version of yourself in many ways that's challenging I recognize that 100 % so can you walk around can you go to India like now like you said before it was difficult to shoot but how do you get to go home and see people is it a little challenging it's a little challenging but I love it yeah of course Indian people are very hospitable in that way they also feel that you're a representative of their culture many kids who come to the restaurant they'll bow and touch your feet so I keep telling them I'm not that old but I still embrace them it's because their mothers or grandmothers or aunts, they have watched you and they are very fond of you talking about Indian food and culture in a very respectful way so I feel that the transition has moved Indian food to the next space.

48:16Vikas Khanna:Yeah. To have this massive kind of a crowd which watches you. The show is a cult show. And to be center of that for so many decades now, almost two decades, I feel it's important because you have access to everybody's ears and you tell them the profound story of Indian food. Yeah, it's super powerful. How do you like to travel to India? What is your normal path? If I'm going to Delhi, then I go to Amritsar. That's my hometown. My mom lives in Amritsar and the Golden Temple is in Amritsar. Still my soul resides there. But if I'm going to Bombay, it's usually for endorsements, work, events, television, movies.

49:02Vikas Khanna:Most of my movie job is done in Mumbai. And I have to divide myself a lot. most of my books when they're getting India launch or whatever is happening in the way of violating all this literature Bombay is the hub in India Delhi, if you are doing these political meetings and you're meeting the head of the states, then it's Delhi What about places like Kerala or Tamil Nadu or Rajasthan? I might be one of the most well-traveled person you're meeting from India I'm doing my third PhD I find new reasons to write new papers the first was about so much about Indian festivals the second I do feel the diversity of India in the cuisine our history and now I'm doing something on the soil structures which I'm very proud of so I've traveled to such remote areas so a good mask a good cap just keep doing your work keep your head down but when it's time to meet people you meet the most gracious way of course Of course.

50:05And you want to accept the positive. And the love. And the love and all that. But you need to do your work. So you need to stay anonymous. You just put up the mask. Yeah. I see.

50:15Vikas Khanna:Because most of my books are writing on travels. Yeah. So I have to be very focused on my work. Then socializing is important because that is where I get all the stories. So that has given me a lot of access also to India. So where should our listeners visit that maybe we haven't thought about in India? because I think Mumbai, Delhi, you know, these are some of the places that are typically on the maybe Kerala. But like it's such an incredible country and place that, and you mentioned there's so many different regions and so many food cultures. I'd just like to get your take on where we should look to.

50:56Vikas Khanna:I would suggest every human being on the planet to visit Varanasi once. Varanasi. it's accepted the way it is accepted the way life is it's just a cycle Varanasi teaches you that if you want to understand divinity and food coming together you need to visit Odisha it's a state in eastern India I used to go there and pray for my sister when she was not well so I went, there's a temple called Puri Temple the entire cuisine was actually an offering to the God. I have never witnessed food like that. Simplicity is supremacy. That cuisine defines it. So I request people that when they're traveling, I said, big towns which have been too much written about American media, please visit them.

51:53Vikas Khanna:But I do recommend you, you'll find, these towns you're going to find beauty, you're going to find good food, you're going to be finding poverty, you're going to be seeing so much of chaos and the beauty, everything together. But once you go to Puri, you will find yourself. Puri Temple. You will find a reflection of yourself. Wow. Something moved me there, which is, as humans, you're not so intelligent to express. But I found the thread of divinity and cuisine there. Love to read your books about India. Yeah. Love to read them. You're working your third PhD in writing paper about soil science.

52:32Are you working on a commercial book right now?

52:35Vikas Khanna:I'm working on a novel, which is all set in Trinidad, which talks about the last ship which left from Kolkata to Trinidad and how Indians were. This is all the time when slavery was abolished, but British figured out some loopholes so that they can get Indians for the sugarcane farming. Wow. So the novel is about sugarcanes and the weight of sugar. How do you find the time to do all this? I'm extremely disciplined. I don't have any mood swings, which is a good thing. So I stay very focused. I work everything mechanically, which is great. But I also have this book, which I'm working on, is 1 ,001 Recipes to Try Before You Die, Indian Food at Its Best.

53:22Oh, wow. And it's literally 1 ,001 recipes. 1 ,001 recipes. That's a lot of recipes.

53:27Vikas Khanna:A lot of recipes. but I'm also trying to simplify the cuisine so that anyone in America or the Western world or even in India, everybody has less time. They can quickly put a meal together. How often do you go back to India? My mom is there normally. I don't start any project till I go and pray at the Golden Temple. So I go back for that. So it could be depending like every six months and when the show hits the shooting schedules, that's about every year. It's only five, six weeks, but that is a time when I write a lot. That is a time I get time. Right, and that's when you're away from the restaurant, but every other time you're in New York, you're at the restaurant.

54:08But remember, I have worked double because it's night in India when it's morning. Yeah, of course. So that's why up until 3 a.m., I bet. Watching the cameras. That's incredible. So where do you dine out in New York when you're not in your restaurant? I didn't ask it at the top, but I want to ask it here. Oh, my God. I love so many halal carts now. Yeah. obsession obsession I just feel that a quick easy meal halal kart yeah I love their hot sauce absolutely

54:35Vikas Khanna:I love their white sauce I love what they have created in New York has become the lifeline now what people dismissed a few years ago has become now the lifeline it's great sentiment yeah it's and it's so quick and easy and it's it's amazing and it's so flavorful and then I love a visalka yeah it's one of my favorite restaurants in the city. Same. Too many memories. Too many memories. Same. Was the East Village like the only place that bungalow could be? I don't think so. It can be in anywhere else. Yeah, yeah. It is, it's artsy. It is, it has pain. It is broken in so many ways. I call bungalow the world's most beautifully incomplete restaurant because I, it was my sister's dream to see the guests being treated like that, but she's not there physically to see it so I say the restaurant remains incomplete but also I feel the I was just passing by East Village and I saw this guy who makes the rubber stamps one person working slowly very very very cool place and you discover and you keep discovering this thrift shops it's amazing it's magical yeah what's the order at Basalka I am the Bosch I have to have the first thing even my off day if I can't travel I'm going to order a Bosch yeah it's a good one it's I think one of the best I've had yeah it's so cool that that's one of your favorites and now they're 24 hours finally they're back back they're back to 24 hours I used to live in East Village with this guy and I did a summer school at NYU yeah yeah and Veselka was the only place which would give you free internet and was open throughout the wind that's crazy 24 hours they were open and during pandemic they decided to have a closing hours now they're back it's a lifeline it's a lifeline And there's Mamoun's just across the street.

56:25Vikas Khanna:Yeah. Which I love. Absolutely. These are like institutions. I like it. You're keeping it classic. I mean, those are my spots too. Do you hear that? Sounds like breakfast is ready. Because Quakers coming in hot with morning nutrition. 100 % whole grain oats. And a good source of fiber. To fuel the rhythm of your morning and kickstart your day. And that sounds absolutely delicious. Fuel to start whatever's next. Quaker, official sponsor of FIFA World Cup 26. I-O, let's go!

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58:10Vikas Khanna:There's only one fruit in the world, and that's a mango. Mmm. Until you've not had an Indian mango? you've not tasted the fruit. During mango season, are you just combing the markets in your context to get the best mangoes to your restaurant? I am a part of a big export import. So we get the best mangoes at Bangalore throughout the summer. It's called Dil Mango More. It's a brand. Yeah, yeah. Completely trustworthy, amazing. And you buy a lot. Yeah. The worst vegetable. My mom used to force me to eat karela It's a bitter good. It's really bitter. And I used to hate it. It used to come in my dream.

58:53But now I've found so many different variations in different regions. Yeah. And I love it. You like it now, but it was bad then. What is your typical breakfast?

59:02Vikas Khanna:I eat the same food every day for the last 20 plus years. It's granola. It's boiled eggs. It's oat milk. Lots of nuts and fruits and berries. And I'm a coffee addict. So it has to be iced coffee with oat milk, even if it's snowing outside, whatever. Yeah. And do you make your own iced coffee? I make my own iced coffee. Yeah. My friend Andre gave me this machine and it's the best machine. Yeah. And I grind my own beans in the morning and I need double shot of espresso and oat milk. And oat milk. What's your coffee brand? Today, I'm using right now something called Karma. It's Karma brand from Boston.

59:40Vikas Khanna:It's amazing. Really good stuff. Dark roast. Really good stuff. I'll check that brand out. Okay, the best dessert. Oh, goodness. I love rice pudding, but I'm obsessed with anything with chocolate. Though I don't teach dessert at all, but still chocolate is happiness. You like it. It's happiness. But you don't eat dessert. I don't touch sugar. You don't, yeah. It's not. You know, in the restaurant business, to keep our health sane, we have to refrain because there's so much availability of things 24 hours. Yeah. And it's like, okay, I'm going to keep eating, eating. And then there's so many things which happen to your body later because it's an overdose.

1:00:19Agree fully. Do you drink alcohol? I don't touch alcohol. Yeah, yeah. It's probably how you can get to 12 to 16 hours.

1:00:26Vikas Khanna:I don't touch alcohol at all. But I used to drink a glass of champagne when there'll be a big milestone in my life. Yeah. With my sister. But after I have no wish to touch alcohol. It's, you work out? Every single day. Yeah. Every single day. Yeah. Even when I'm sick. Yeah. I'll still do push-ups because I know that my body takes a toll because of my ambition. Yeah, you've been. But I need to respect it. A restaurant you wish you could bring back from the dead. And I wish I could bring back Salaam Bombay back. Yeah. Because that used to be my first official job in America. Yeah, that would be going to time machines.

1:01:06And there was another restaurant called Pondicherry. It was run by... Pondicherry. Yeah. You know what? Yeah, yeah, yeah. In Central Park South? Yeah. And there was another restaurant which I loved. I was there once. It was in a penthouse, overlooking all the Central Park. What was it called? It was an Indian restaurant. The most amazing views I ever saw. Beatles used to be there.

1:01:31Vikas Khanna:Everybody used to go and visit there. It was a Bangladeshi owner. I met him a few times. I forgot the restaurant. Those are good ones. When you're craving fast food, where are you going? Mushroom burger, shake shak. Nice. It's a delicious choice. So good. Your favorite city outside America to visit for food? I'm going to say that everybody should visit Bhutan once. You'll have a new definition of food and culture. But visiting Paro is a capital, Thimphu, and it's life-changing. life-changing country. Yeah. How do you get there? There's a flight from India. Yeah. That is where I used. Yeah. I think so that it's a very small airport.

1:02:21Vikas Khanna:It's literally like not all the pilots can fly because they have to go through the mountains. I've heard. And it was like, oh my God. But once I landed there, I felt that this is the closest to God's. Wow. I've never felt so peaceful and calm. Yeah. Oh, that's wonderful. The rivers are dancing. The flags are singing. I'm like, what is going on here? The respect for nature. I've never seen anything like that. Never seen anything like that. Will you go back? I wish I could go back more often. I've been there twice. But I wish, yeah, maybe I retire there. Yeah, get a spa in Bhutan. Retire. Yeah, a little retirement house.

1:03:06Last one, your favorite sandwich.

1:03:08Vikas Khanna:There's something called Bombay Sandwich. It's just grilled toast with spicy green chutney. And anyone who struggled in Mumbai will appreciate me saying Bombay Sandwich or Vada Pau. Vada Pau, I also had, I don't remember, Chinthan sent me once. That was one of the best Vada Pau's I heard. Vada Pau is... Oh, yeah, I know Vada Pau was traveling. Yeah, it's like a little bread. And then they stuff this. It's a potato crocket. But it's a pow bread. It's like a very light bun. And they have this. When Chintan sent this to me, I don't remember, like two years ago. I still remember the taste. And there's a chutney of garlic and fried chickpea flour batter crushed.

1:03:56Vikas Khanna:It was one of the best things I ate. I love vada pow. Such a good dish. Wow. So delicious. Well, this has been such a great conversation. Thank you so much for joining us. It's a honor. Thank you for doing this.

1:04:12This is Taste is hosted and produced by Eliza Abarbanal and me, Matt Rodbar. The show is edited by lead producer Clayton Gumbert and supervised by Pat Stango, director of media production and development at Penguin Random House. Thanks to Shalia Harris and the production team at Penguin Random House. Theme music by Steve Rydell. Episode portraits by Louise Zergon Pomeroy. Logo design by Ellie Skirzat and Ian Dingham. Visit Taste Online at tastecooking.com and make sure to subscribe to our newsletter to keep updated on all cool things in the world of taste. Good energy in. Good energy out.

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