818: It Took a Chef to Make a Buzzy Drinks Brand like Faccia Brutto

26:42Yeah, you mentioned that you wanted to do the bread program. I do see some similarities between bread baking and distilling in terms of time and weighing things out and kind of that like methodical brain at play. Does it feel that way? It does. And it also requires way more than I thought it did in terms of math and science, which were my weakest subjects. But I've now become so much better at them just because I have to use them more frequently. Um, so yeah, it, uh, it was, it was funny how I kind of like fell into it and turned the hobby into the job, uh, which is sort of how I started cooking, right?

27:26Like turned the hobby into the job, but that job, uh, definitely got me super burned out. Like in 2016, 2017, I was like waking up at 5am with my heart pounding out of my chest, just like severe anxiety. I was like, what is going on? You know, so you identify things, you know, go to your therapist, go to your psychologist, talk it out. And it seemed like the starting the company and making Amaro and being in charge of my own schedule in my own life and all that would be a good move. So that sort of was the impetus for me to get my butt going. I want to go back just a little bit to the kind of early experiments that you were doing.

28:11Do you remember a specific liqueur you were making or like a moment where you realized, oh, there's actually something here? Like this could be more than just the side project or the gift that we give at holidays? Yeah. So the Amaro Guarini, which is named after my grandmother, her maiden name, was the first Amaro that I sort of tried my hand at making. the recipe obviously varies wildly now uh from what it was back then because you know time and experience and you just learn how to make things taste better but um once i had sort of nailed that a little bit and it tasted pretty good and i all my bartender friends and line cook friends were like oh this is good that i think was like the the moment so i was like okay cool i got one thing that people are like this is good so it that gave me some confidence to kind of try different styles.

29:05Yeah. And how would you describe that kind of flavor profile? Of the Guarini? It's our Sicilian style Amaro. So it's also aged in a two-stage Solera system and used bourbon barrels. So it's got lots of kind of like smoky, caramelly, orange goodness. Tons of fresh orange peel go into it. And it has a cumulative age of about two and a half years right now. It's really delicious. Yeah, I've tried it. I'm a fan and I'm trying to figure out the most diplomatic way to phrase this question. But I think sometimes you go to a restaurant and they're making their own ketchup and you're like, oh, well, you know, Heinz actually makes the perfect ketchup.

29:43Yeah. When it comes to making Amaro, like there are these really iconic drinks and products and brands that have been around for such a long time that are kind of thought of as like constituent parts of cocktails. Why go to the effort of making your own? What do you kind of gain from that? I just like making things. I just like producing. I like making stuff. That's just who I am. I like fiddling around and tinkering with things and I like making stuff. And so I think at the core of it, it's just producing, right? And flavor. And I like those two things. So whatever producing and flavor happened to whatever realm they happened to be in, I think that was just, I just fell into it.

30:26Really. That really is it. Yeah. And then from the flavor perspective, I guess you can have all of the control over what's the perfect version of this drink or what's like a new version of drink that no one's had before. You're asking what? No, I'm just saying like that to me seems like another benefit, right? Is that it's less mass market. It can be kind of more singular. Totally. Totally. And I mean, I think from the jump, our goal was to create things styled after liqueurs that exist in Italy, mostly because it's easier for people to wrap their heads around if they're at a wine shop or if they're sitting in a restaurant.

31:03And they ask their server, like, what's this Garini stuff? And he can be like, if you've had a Verna, if you've had a Maro della Etna, it's a Sicilian style of Maro. It's got lots of orange and it's delicious. instead of just making like a Brooklyn Amaro and having that be kind of nebulous. And you know what I mean? And I just want people to drink our stuff and think of a better place. Not that Brooklyn is a bad place at all, but I want, who doesn't love, you know, Tuscany. Yeah, like think of the rolling green hills, man. Yeah, I think there are a lot of people probably listening who maybe they work in food.

31:37They have an idea for a business, but going from having the idea to actually having the business and having it be at scale and be successful feels kind of insurmountable. Do you remember having a business strategy or a brand positioning or anything that you felt kind of made sense to you? Yeah, I mean, talk about learning a new skill. I mean, I was warming food up in a basement for 20 years and now I'm like, okay, I have to start a business. We need a logo. Yeah, well, we can get into that. But I even took an online business school at like Wharton for like six months to just like learn some basics, right?

32:17Like learn accounting, learning, branding, just learning how to like sell your idea. And that was kind of helpful, actually. I was dubious, but. Well, that's cool. I feel like a lot of people wouldn't think to actually do that. Yeah, it's really easy. And you, you know, again, like if you, if you do want to put the effort into doing anything, then do it whole last. You know what I mean? Like, don't just sort of think like, oh, maybe I'll start this or do this. Like, if you're going to do it, just do it. You went to business school and then what did you decide to do after that? And then I said, okay, like, what do I need to do?

32:54I need to get investors. How do you get investors? You write a business plan. How do I do that? You know, and literally Basically, bplans.com will, if you go there, you plug in, they give you a template, you plug in all the info, boom, boom, boom. And then you have a business plan. It's pretty easy. And this is before the advent of AI, which I am very against. But now I'm sure people can just go to like whatever their AI agent is and just say like write me a business plan. And if it's real or fake, who knows? Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, I got that. I started telling people I was starting a business and I needed money.

33:30And some people said yes. Some people said no. It was really just friends and family. And we raised about$140 ,000. And I thought, okay, cool. That's definitely enough. Later I would learn that that is not enough. But, you know, COVID was part of that. And so once I had the cash, had the business plan, I just got lawyers to submit all the documents to the state and the government. And then I played the waiting game. I got a facility in the Pfizer building and I had to wait to purchase the neutral grain spirit or really until I got my permits to purchase the neutral grain spirit. And the permits finally came through in February, 2020.

34:12so I said great like let's start doing this I made my first batches in like early March 2020 and then March 15th rolled around and all the restaurants and bars shut down and you were planning originally on doing mostly kind of wholesale bar restaurant clients uh they were definitely you know target for sure but um you know wine shops were open thank god man and people got to see our juice there and it, you know, kind of grew from there. You mentioned, we alluded to the logo, which I think of as very iconic. And I do think that probably plays a role if people are walking into the wine shop and looking for something to pick up.

34:51Can you maybe explain what it is and why that's what you wanted to go with? Yeah. So the couple who did the branding for us, Garrett and Elizabeth, their company is called Garrett Elizabeth Office. They're incredible. They live here in Brooklyn. And yeah, I just told him, I was like, look, man, like I want Charles Bukowski somewhere on the bottle. So whether it's a quote, whatever. And then he came back with like a quote is kind of dumb. Let's just do this cool drawing. And I was like, dude, nailed it. I feel so silly. I never knew it was Bukowski. I thought it was just like a jolly man. Well, yeah, it kind of is like not Bukowski in that it is a jolly man and he was kind of a curmudgeon but whatever he still was a a drinking man yeah why Bukowski just drinker uh I'm a I'm a big fan of his writing um I always have been and uh yeah I just was like why not you know it kind of fits the theme totally and then the name I guess is the other half where did that come from yeah honestly I was I had kind of been like batting back and forth some some names that I I wasn't super thrilled with.

36:05And I was crossing the street one day. Faccia Bruta came to mind. And I was like, holy shit, that's the name, Faccia Bruta. And what does that mean for people who don't speak Italian? It means ugly face Italian. I thought it's funny. It's memorable. You know, whatever. It doesn't have to necessarily do with spirits or have any sort of lore. You know, it's Italian, whatever. But then I was like, it just sounds too good. It sounds too perfect. It rolls off the tongue a little too easily. So I was like, let's create some dissonance there. So I decided much to, I think my chagrin now, to name it Faccio Bruto because, man oh man, Italians love their grammar.

36:50And I have received lots of DMs, even phone calls, asking why I decided to name it that. Like, do you know that you should have used an A instead? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like I even had somebody DMing me one day like, hey, I'm sitting in my Italian class right now and people want to know why you named it like this because it should be Fattrubuta. And I'm like, because it's my fucking business, dude. I can name it whatever I want. Do you think maybe this benefits you? Like you have more engagement because of the people that are stressed? Yeah, there's conversation for sure. But I've also talked to a lot of Italians.

37:24I'm like, what do you think of this? Does this bother you? And they're like, no, I think it's great. They're like, at the end of the day, if people are talking about you, they're talking about you. So you're signaling that it's not something from Italy, because if it was from Italy, then it would never be brutal. Yeah, we're Italian, you know, Italian American. But yeah, so that that's that's the name. I feel like almost everyone that I speak to that has a business at some point in time made a decision early on that they later were like, oh, maybe maybe actually that doesn't fit what it has become.

37:56You know, there's something that you would go back in time and change, but you but you can't. And that's a sign of growth. So, yeah, yeah, I I've accepted it. I do a literary magazine called Cake Scene and we haven't done an issue about cake in like three years, probably. So I feel your pain a little bit. The cake is a concept. Sure. Yeah, yeah. It can it can it can just be the the idea. Right. And we spoke a little bit about the first product that you made, but I'm wondering if you could speak to some of the more recent offerings or maybe if there's even a specific drink that you think really kind of encapsulates what's special about the brand.

38:33Sure. The spring sort of offering that we release is the Chen Derbe Jalo or yellow Chen Derbe. Not super creatively named, but it's just because we take the normal Chen Derbe recipe aged in white wine barrels for about eight months. And when it comes out, it's just very yellow. And that I feel like is something that speaks to just how we kind of view creativity and spirits and just trying to kind of like throw something together, see if it works out. It turned out, you know, the first time that we dumped the barrels, we were like, wow, this is actually really good. And so it's just again, like just experimenting and producing.

39:16Right. It's that's just sort of like the thing that I like to do. So. So, yeah. And that is it's a very different product from the regular Chandra Bay. It's a lot more kind of like floral. It's got like a little acid to it. The time in the barrel kind of like adds all these different flavors. And so that I think is a good example of kind of like ingenuity, I suppose. I'm sure there's not a single answer to this, but I'm thinking about where do new ideas for products come from? Is it because you have a surplus of something or because you think something sounds really good or maybe the ether of the universe?

39:53We don't love jumping on bandwagons for things that are trendy. Coffee liqueur is one of those. A lot of people are just making them because for some reason people are drinking espresso martinis again. We all need energy. That's why. um but you know i i think we have some really great roasters in brooklyn and we uh enjoy the kind of seasonal drop of a product and so we've been dipping our toe into possibly making a coffee with our buddies at a super lost coffee um so that may be a thing that we we release but you know make a limited amount, sell it out, don't have to worry about it for a while.

40:37Yeah. And I feel like also the other factor is how long these things are distilling for, you probably have to be looking pretty far into the future. Well, in New York state in particular, if you want to sell product, an alcoholic product in the state of New York, you have to do what's called price posting. So you send the state liquor authority, the product, the price, all the info two months before you want to sell it. So aside from R &D for a product, aside from getting the labels made, actually making it, bottling it, casing it up, whatever, you have to have it listed two months before you want to sell it.

41:17So is that just a liquor board law? Yeah. Yeah. Do you run into a lot of things like that? Oh man, like the bureaucratic element of liquor, whether it's national or state is wild. And how much it varies from state to state, if the state is a control state where there's a board, if it's not, it's a new hurdle with every state. How many states are you in right now? 36. Wow. And four countries, maybe soon to be five again. Maybe we were distributing to Canada, But then obviously the tariff thing made most of Canada stop buying American stuff. But Alberta, Calgary, BC, like I think they're still purchasing stuff.

42:09And so I think we're going to start selling to them because then the rest of Canada buys the American stuff from them. So it'll be Canada. We're in Australia. Costa Rica. I know. I know. And Mexico City or Mexico. Wow. There must be so much. I'm picturing spreadsheets and maps with strings on them and just the logistics of kind of making and then getting things everywhere. I know that maybe it's less stressful on a day-to-day than the restaurant, but it does seem like kind of a huge headache. No, I mean, sometimes work does feel like that scene in It's Always Sunny where like Charlie's trying to find Pepe Silva, you know?

42:44And there's like string on every wall, frantically pointing around. It definitely feels like that sometimes. And especially now, like being the person who's in charge of a business who has to run a business and think about it existing and continuing to exist and thrive. Like, uh, it's just so much different than being in charge of a restaurant in a million ways, but it's also kind of like, since I am the boss, uh, I can choose to engage with it as much as I feel like I need to or want to and disengage whenever I, you know, feel like it's, it's cool. You know what I mean? Like I can be as busy or as, as not busy as I want to be.

43:27Yeah. Um, but then there's of course the, the flip side of that coin is like, if I'm not hustling, like, am I doing enough for the business? Um, and it's, it's, it's, it's a mentality that I think like people who are really into people like Gary V are like, you got to hustle 25 hours a day. But honestly, like I've done that in restaurants and that wasn't a great way for me to interact with my job. So I've taken a different approach to it, a more Europine approach to it. As you should. It seems like there's a different kind of growth ceiling or threshold as well. I mean, obviously with a restaurant, you can open a second location or you can do delivery, but there's kind of only so many people that you can serve day to day, whereas, you know, you don't necessarily want to be the next Diageo Spirits company, but you can serve so many more people.

44:24You can grow so much more. Yeah, yeah. I mean, the sky's the limit. And it really kind of, it depends on how you want your business to be perceived or how you want it to just to be. Like, do you want to be in 50 states and 40 countries? Or do you want to be like regionally, just like a really solid regional producer? I want us to be in 50 states and 40 countries. Okay. Yeah. Maybe the next Diageo. Yeah. I have been since day one. I have wanted us to be like a household name, to be like a bigger company. But I mean, there's only five people that work at FATIA and I'm one of them. Like myself and one other guy, Avery.

45:05What's up, Avery? Make all the juice. He's on paid family leave right now because he just had a baby. Oh, congrats. Yep. So it's solo man cave right now for me at work, which is fine. I get to bring my dog. And then Emma and Tavo and Jessica. And so they handle the other side of things, right? Like Tavo does PR, Emma does marketing, and Jessica just runs around town and tells everybody to buy our stuff. Yeah. Wow. Well, it seems to give a really big footprint for the amount of people on your team. uh i guess we i guess we do and i think honestly like from day one it's been like quality of quality of the juice first everything else is second and i think that you know like if people like the bottle great if they love the label amazing but like if they don't like the juice they're not going to buy another bottle right like if what you're putting out is mediocre or, you know.

46:03You're not going to be a staple on the bar cart. Yeah, exactly. What do you kind of think about between like direct-to-consumer CPG sale versus wholesale to bars and restaurants? Is it a pretty even split or is there kind of more business on one side? So we started selling DTC through a company called Accelpay that just people go onto your website, they place an order, and then it's fulfilled from a number of different wine shops across the country. So we don't actually have to fulfill, but we don't see any of the money either directly. Oh, I see. Yeah. So they're wholesale buying from you. So like the wine shop buys from the distributor who we sell to.

46:45So we do see the sale, but it's just in a different route or in a different way. And that is about$100 ,000 to$150 ,000 a year, which is nothing to shake stick at um we haven't been doing it the whole time so it's been nice like to kind of have this other way to get our stuff out there you know i mean i see sales from all over places all over and it's cool to see just like where people are just even if they're not buying anything like where people are visiting the website from like i love that people in you know slovenia i mean granted people could be using vpns so maybe somebody isn't visiting us from Slovenia but let's believe I you know believe believe the site but um yeah but the rest of it is bars and restaurants the rest of its bars restaurants yeah to be to answer your question I feel like because you have this chef background what does it feel like to go into a restaurant or a bar and and see your product and see what they're doing with it it's always it's always feels great.

47:49It always is such a nice feeling. Like it's, it's still new and I hope it never gets old. Um, because it, I don't know, I, I can't describe it. It's just, it's, it's, it, it feels like someone's giving you a high five, you know? Um, and it's, it's really nice to have the support. Have you had any drinks that were maybe unexpected or surprising with how they were kind of utilizing the product and expanding on it. One of the earlier drinks that I had with our stuff was when I was still working at Rucola and my buddy Kevin Buckley made a cocktail for the menu called Miller's Crossing. And it had Irish whiskey, Frenet, I think like a little like molasses, simple syrup and something else.

48:36And it was unbelievably good. He still puts it on like in the winter. And so that was like really the first cocktail that I ever had with somebody that used my stuff. We did not sell the illegal liqueur at Rucola Restaurant. For the record, we were experimenting with a cocktail. But that was, I think, the first one. And then somewhat recently I went to Red Hook Tavern and Connor made me just like a little shakerado with the Alpino and Giffard passion fruit. And that was incredible because it was so simple. and the alpino and tropical fruit go really well together. And that was, you know, really great.

49:15That's so cool. I've never had like an alpine amara with tropical fruit before. Ours really goes very well with most tropical fruits and or mezcal. It kind of lifts up the bitterness? Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the bitterness kind of, if it's in a cocktail, like a tiki cocktail, it kind of like gives it a little bit of a backbone without ideally overwhelming. but the alpino is like the most rustic thing we make so it is it's an amaro lover's amaro you know yeah i remember i tried um browlio for the first time which is an alpino amaro at servos um and i could barely drink it but i think now i would be fine with it i think i've upped my tolerance a little bit yeah yeah yeah i mean like the first time i had uh this amaro that capoletti makes called elisa nova salas it blew my mouth off it was it's it still is like one of the most bitter things that is out there.

50:08But every so often I'll order it at a restaurant and I'll be like, man, like I'm slowly getting used to bitterness. But I mean, that stuff is just like on another planet. Do you think over the time that you've been working on Facha or maybe even when you're still at Rukula, you've seen a shift in terms of how much customers, consumers know about or are interested in Amaro? Oh, absolutely. I mean, it's really just the bartenders who are out there putting our stuff in drinks that we have to thank for it. Like they're the ones who are creating the demand, you know, by putting cocktails on the menu, by just giving someone a shot of something or a little pour of something.

50:44That and like everyone who studies abroad in Argentina who comes back wanting to drink for that. Exactly. Exactly. No, I mean, I think it's been really great to have kind of a light shown on these liqueurs because everybody kind of knows is what like gin, whiskey, vodka, tequila, mezcal now, you know, are. And I still feel like even though a lot more people know a little bit more about Amari, we're still like, we're still not really widely kind of known. Yeah. Like I went to North Carolina not long ago for kind of like a spirits trade show. Because again, they're a control state. You have to kind of wow the buyers.

51:28So I was there with my distributor and I was pouring our entire lineup and they were like, wow, what is this? What is this? And they had only really ever heard of or they only really buy Chanterebe from us because they know about an herbal green liqueur. It's tough to get chartreuse down there. And so that's what we sell the most to them. But they were like, oh, what's the rest of this stuff? And I'm like, man, do you know what I have in store for you? Yeah. And you see like the Aperol Spritz a couple of years ago becoming really popular, Campari becoming more popular. I used to work at Bon Appetit 2017 to 2021.

52:02And I feel like every week someone was writing like, oh, you should know about this Amaro. I think especially for people who love food, the fact that there's a history of these drinks, AperTV being like paired together and also the fact that they can kind of ease you off at the end of a meal. There seems to be a lot of potential there. Yeah, yeah. I think part of that is also figuring out who your audience is and making sure that whatever you make – sure, you should like it, but making sure that other people do too is kind of key. So, yeah. Do you bring in taste testers while you're working on new products?

52:39It's usually just Avery and myself who try and taste things. but we do like other people's opinions who we trust and we do taste the folks on some other stuff. Like when we were coming up with a liqueur for our friends at Peter Luger's, which is now called Mr. Luger, we had the bartenders there try it. We of course had them taste through the different iterations. And yes, we're open to outside opinions for sure. Well, I'm available if you ever want someone. Of course. I have strong opinions, so I feel like it would be a good addition. Yes, I like strong opinions. We're talking about how some of these drinks that you've made have been a template or a take on another classic spirit, like Fernet, for example, or your Red Bitter, which I think a lot of people think about with Campari.

53:31Is there any existing liqueur that you don't think you would try to do your own version on, or is it all kind of up for grabs? I think things like Suze. I don't know that I would try making just like a straight like gentian liqueur or like a creme de menthe. But we got some cocoa nibs from Raka chocolate recently. And they are unbelievably delicious. And so we're kind of like messing around with the thought of making a creme de cacao because nobody really makes it. And even if we make just like 40 cases of it or something, it still could be just like a fun little one off. Yeah, like a holidays cocktail kind of thing.

54:15Yeah, exactly. And I know that like, you know, my buddy Brad Parsons would probably throw it in a grasshopper because he loves grasshoppers. So but yeah, I mean, you know, maybe that. But I don't know, man, like we make eight things. people are always like what's new what's next what's new and i'm like dude enjoy the stuff that we got now i mean what what more do you want for me it's also don't ask campari what's new yeah exactly i kind of you know the way that i view what we choose to make and sell is the difference between a restaurant whose menu is kind of like servos or like rucola like a smaller restaurant's menu versus a greek diner you know you have a curated selection of things that people who care make and kind of like really pay attention to versus somebody who just wants to please everybody.

55:15And when I think you take that other route is when you wind up pleasing nobody. Have you thought about any offerings? Yeah, I've thought about it. Too much?

55:30um i just think the market is really crowded and if i did something it would have to be under a completely different business name because i again like i don't want fachia to be associated with something that it didn't start out to be um because then i think that kind of muddies the water a little too much and people are like oh are you an na brand now or are you a alcohol brand Like, what are you? So, I don't know. I mean, there's money to be made there. I think if you can make something that is NA that is delicious, then you deserve to get people's money, right? Like, Santa Grestis, I think, got acquired not long ago.

56:11And the phony Negroni. The phony Negroni. I mean, good for them. That's incredible. Like, they had a good idea. They made a good thing. And not only was it or is it NA, it's also single serving red drink. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, I don't know. I wouldn't, not, not yet. That's fair. Yeah. What do you think about the canned, ready to drink kind of? Again, same thoughts. I mean, one of my investors wants, you know, owns an olive oil company and he's like, I'm getting a canning machine. Do you want to, you know, make an RTD? And I'm like, oh man, no. At least you have access to the canning machine if you change your mind.

56:50I'm like, oh, I don't, I don't want to do that, man. I got enough on my plate. Well, I had a little, you have the little glass bottle kind of, it's bigger than a shooter. I don't know exactly what to call it. When the Knicks won the finals, I went back home to drop off my stuff and run back out into the street. And I grabbed my little like shooter, Faccia Bruto drink so that I could, you know, have a little nip when I was out in the street. So that still works for me. Amazing. Great. You know, I like to think that everything we make is a RTD because it is. Yeah, if you're up for it. They all are ready to drink.

57:24That's so true. Yeah. I guess before we go into the rapid fire to close, we've been talking a lot about looking over your career and building the brand. And I'm sure there are many things that you would go back and tell yourself that was just starting out. But if there's one that comes to mind. Only FACIA related or cooking related. We're just looking for life advice, I think. I think I would tell myself in 2016 that I need to start thinking of a new job, you know, because like I wish I wish like severe anxiety on nobody, you know, really like it's it's tough, man. And it's it's crucial to have people around you who you can talk to to like work through it.

58:08so yeah i mean i think i would just tell myself to like care just a tiny bit less and work a little bit less you know instead of always being available and answering my phone all hours of the night yeah and that there's i think sometimes you're so deep in something it's impossible to think about what else there could be oh yeah you found it so yeah yeah it's honestly it was thanks to my partner too because she was like you're not listening to yourself like are you hearing what you're saying like you're saying you want to start this company but like you're not doing it like listen to yourself do it so i have her to thank good advice yeah okay i'm gonna throw some favorite questions at you this episode is brought to you by gooder a few months back we were down in santonia in northern spain shooting our founder in the field episode with becca milstein from fishwife we were out on a boat with the anchovy fishermen and the sun was absolutely blazing and the one thing that really saved me was my gooder sunglasses gooder makes active eyewear for everyone.

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1:01:09You sent a message, and it turned out the seller was super chatty, kind of funny, and an avid cyclist. The next thing you know, you're in a cycling crew. Well, a community cycling group. The thing about Facebook, you might find more than what you're looking for. From a browse to a bike ride, this summer, find more on Facebook. You can tell me the first thing that comes to mind. What is your coffee order? Black. Just drip coffee. Just filter coffee every morning. Your bagel order? Everything bagel, toasted hard, scallion cream cheese, and then bring it home and put good smoked salmon on it because the stuff at the deli is not good.

1:01:54Shout out Banner or Acme, I guess Acme now. Yeah, and then smoked salmon. Yeah. Your go-to ice cream flavor? If it's like a richer kind of vibe, chocolate and or peanut butter or like chocolate mint, for sure. I'd love chocolate. Your go-to bodega snack? Are we talking off the shelf or are we talking homeboy on the griddle is making me something? Maybe one of each. Oof, God.

1:02:25Or whichever one you're more likely to do when you're going to the bodega. Yeah, honestly, man, like ham, egg and cheese, ham, egg and cheese, hot sauce. And I don't know. I'm not like, I guess like chips, like salt and vinegar chips, as basic as that is. Perfect. I do like a chip. Well, the ham really is a callback to the ham roll-ups that we talked about. See? See? It's a thread. It's deep within you. Yeah, it really is. I do love ham. Your favorite Faccia Bruto product offering right now? I drink the aperitivo every single day. it's the one I drink the most of far and away. How do you drink it?

1:03:01Negroni. I'm very basic. Yeah, classic. I'm very classic, actually. Yes, yes, classic. I don't want to get you in trouble with any of your accounts, but a favorite bar in New York? I would say Hartley's for a pint, or Doris because I just love the fucking vibe in there. Yeah, those two places for sure. Your favorite quick lunch spot in the city? Well, any lunch can be a quick lunch if you're fast. But I actually didn't think about this question. So you'll have to give me that. Do you not eat lunch out? No, I do. But I don't go for quick lunches. I like a long lunch. Your favorite long lunch spot?

1:03:47King restaurant. Great answer. Yeah. Shout out all those wonderful ladies there. Because Claire, my partner, did used to work there with them for a short period of time. So we love King and Dean's now next door. Maybe Dean's is the quick lunch. Quick lunch is Dean's? Maybe Dean's is the quick lunch. No, I still haven't been. Okay. It's really good. Okay. It's very good. I'll try to take my time when I go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do. Maybe this is King, but favorite special occasion restaurant in New York? Vodor. Le Vodor. Those guys crush it. Honestly, close second, though, is Borgo. I think Borgo is delicious.

1:04:21And I think Andrew created something really cool. Final question, a fictional food scene from a book or a movie or something made up that you wish you could magically eat in real life? I know I can eat this in real life because it does exist, but I would love to sit down with Tony Shalhoub and Stanley Tucci and eat that fucking timpano at the table. Or the chocolate cake from Matilda, but probably the timpano, I think, would win out. I don't know if you could do one right after the other, but that would be a pretty epic meal if you could. It would, right? Yeah. Again, chocolate. consistency. I'm a simple man, really.

1:04:59Well, I love both of those answers. And this has been such a fun conversation. Patrick, thank you for coming on the show. Yeah, thank you for having me.

1:05:10This is Taste is hosted and produced by Matt Rodbard and me, Eliza Abarbanil. The show is edited by lead producer Clayton Gumbert and supervised by Pat Stango, director of media production and development at Penguin Random House. Thanks to Shalia Harris and the production team at Penguin Random House. Theme music by Steve Rydell. Episode portraits by Louise Zergang Pomeroy. Logo design by Ellie Skurzat and Ian Dingham. Visit Taste online at tastecooking.com and make sure to subscribe to our newsletter to keep updated on all cool things in the world of taste.

1:05:46Ouch! This knee is killing me, but I can't stop training. The marathon is in two weeks. Let's get on ZocDoc and find a doctor to take a look at that for you. Okay. Here's a review. Dr. Craddock really takes his time. No, I don't have time. What about Dr. Charles? His patients say he can help find a quick fix, and he's in network. Great, now we're talking. Book it. Booked. One mile down, 19 to go. Bring it on. You've got options. Download the ZocDoc app today. Hello? Look what TJ Maxx dragged in. The Devil Wears Prada 2 is now streaming on Disney Plus and Hulu. We are digital. We are downloadable.

1:06:25We are streamable. The fashion event of the year is certified fresh. Pull yourself together. We have work to do. Critics say it's smart and witty and the perfect sequel. That's all. Get runway ready for The Devil Wears Prada 2 on Disney Plus and Hulu. Rated PG-13.