820: Airplane Food, Elite Status Chasing, and What the Airlines Don't Want You to Know with Zach Griff

22:09They sent a car to drive me between Terminal 5 and Terminal 3, which is incredibly generous. And I had like 15 minutes to make my flight. I got to the gate 10 minutes before and they had closed the gate. No, no. And they knew I was coming. They knew that you were in transit. And they were the ones who kind of – and I called them out and like, yes, it was a very nice gesture, but like, come on, that's like incompetence.

22:31Aliza:Yeah, yeah, rough hang. So your stats are crazy. So last year you traveled over 155 ,000 miles and you have six elite status – like elite status – Memberships. Memberships. Programs, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you've traveled to 70 plus countries. Yeah. It's crazy. It sounds crazy, right? Because the stats are wild. In the best way possible, man. It's amazing. And I'm able to do it with maintaining a family at home, which is – for me, it's really important to be home on the weekend. Yeah. So what I'll do is I will take these trips. I will go to Dubai for two days if something's happening, if there's something to report on.

23:11or I'll go take a trip to the UK for a day or just an event and fly right home. But it is sometimes wears me down and by the weekend I'm a little tired, but at least then I'm home with the family. And so we get to take them on trips too.

23:25Aliza:Yeah, definitely. And what I like about your journalism is it's high metabolism. You're posting a lot and at a high level too. And that's really hard to do in this world of influencers and really not a lot of fact-checking. If somebody hasn't been to your website or your reels, tell us why they should subscribe as people who travel a lot, who are taking business trips, who want those inside tips that really make this air travel world a little easier and maybe save some cash too. Yeah, and I think for me, I think of my MO as how do I tell people and educate them? How do they maximize their travel?

24:09And that takes kind of many different forms. That could be via their credit card points, their loyalty points with airlines and hotels, choosing the right seat, finding kind of those hidden tricks to navigate the airport or the Uber line. Give you an example, this summer Europe rolled out their new European immigration system. And it's all this digital stuff that's actually incredibly chaotic. Some airports are waiting 90 minutes, two hours to clear. And so what I did is I've been leaning into AI. I coded up a predictor tool for how long your line will be. And I put it out there for free. Obviously, I shared it on Instagram and my newsletter.

24:46I did that also with the TSA Madness earlier this year. I created a free live kind of TSA tracker. And so for me, everything that I'm doing is how do I help make your travel experience better? And that's, you know, across the travel experience. And I posted on Instagram. And as you said, high velocity. I try to post at least once a day on Instagram. I write the newsletter three times a week. And it's not just a one paragraph. These are beefy newsletters.

25:13Aliza:They really are. They're terrific. And really, you do tap into, you know, maximizing points from your points guy background. but also you get into the airlines and you get into the food a lot. We're going to talk a little bit more about the food. But tell us just a little bit about your last three months of travel. So go over where you've been. And I think this sets the table for how you report and really the work you put in. Yeah. I mean, it's crazy to think that I couldn't even tell you where I was two weeks ago. I definitely had to look back at the calendar because I do so much travel. But just to give you a sense, I was in California, I think, twice.

25:48I had an event with Delta. They opened another Delta One Lounge, which we can get into because, I mean, I think that's some of the best food at an airport everywhere. I went to Apple Park. I cover a lot of one of the things we didn't talk about is tech gear and, you know, kind of travel gear and how do you optimize your travel experience using technology. So they had their conference. And funny enough, their food there is actually really good. People don't know that. I went to Rome with Alaska Airlines. They're flying, you know, smaller regional airline that now has Global Ambitions, which was cool.

26:19I went with some friends to Sicily. I did a long weekend in Philly with my wife and daughter. We went to East Hampton for the July 4th weekend. And in total, I calculated over six weeks I was in Europe six times.

26:32Aliza:Wow. So it's a lot. It's a lot, but it's important to, again, maintain your relationships with these airlines and attend these events. Let's talk about lounges. I think that's a really good spot. And then we'll kind of board the plane and get into the in-flight, in-cabin dining. A lot of movement here within at least domestic lounges. And, of course, Delta has really done an interesting job with Delta One lounges and offered those for Delta One ticket holders, not credit card people. It's like truly you have to have the ticket to get in there. I've been to a Delta One lounge. That was pretty good.

27:10Aliza:You're emphatic about it in some ways. What is Delta thinking about this investment in these lounges, these Delta One-specific lounges? Yeah. So, you know, as you mentioned, Delta One is not a free, it's not those kind of wait in line and, you know, come free for all with a credit card. So it's very much intended for the folks who are paying, you know, the thousand dollars, you know, tickets in long haul business class. And one of the key differentiators for them really is the dining experience. And so, you know, this is an airport. So again, this is, you're not going to find some fancy three star, you know, crazy over the top dining experience.

27:48But what Delta has done in his lounges and what I've been very much struck by is that they've taken a hospitality first focus and approach to how they deliver, you know, the food and beverage experience. So not only is it, you know, flying in fresh fish from Tokyo, for instance, in the one I visited in Los Angeles, they are flying in fish daily. They have a sushi bar in the lounge. And this is not, you know, kind of days old stuff off a Cisco truck. Like this is as fresh as it gets. It literally flies in from another gate, clears customs and comes in, which is really cool because they can do that because they're the airline and they've really taken this hospitality first approach.

28:28The bartenders are whipping up cocktails to order. There obviously are some suggested ones, but they're very much themed around the places that you could fly to from that airport. And I've been very impressed with what they've done because there are only so many ways to actually make the experience in an airport that much better. If you think about it, and we can talk about a little bit more into how lounges have kind of popped up basically everywhere. You have your credit cards, your airlines. You have anyone who wants to get into the lounge space and all it takes is grab a credit card. And we've seen a lot of the competition around lounges really start to center around food because how many times can you improve the Wi-Fi or add showers or add an outdoor deck or something like that?

29:14Have the eyeglass cleaning station. Yeah. Well, in New York, the Delta One Lounge, they added a shoeshine station, which is like it's gimmicky. And like I personally – I'm usually wearing sneakers. I don't need to sit there for a while. But that's the type of thing that dining is a very memorable experience. Folks tell me that all the time. I even think back to some of my flights and hotels and meals during my travels and think like, wow, that was a really amazing, impressive thing that I don't remember having it.

29:46Aliza:So with these lounges, you write about the LAX Lounge. A big part of it is leveraging local chef talent. And you mentioned Squirrel is there. Jessica Coslow has a partnership with Delta. I want to know from your reporting, this obviously is great marketing for the restaurants, but what's it like for a chef to collaborate with an airline? And is it worth it? I really wonder about the efforts they make to get their products out to LAX, especially if it's like an east side restaurant. There's definitely efforts being made. I mean are they being paid for this or is it like part of just marketing like what's what's the behind the scenes like.

30:25Yeah so it'll differ based on you know the actual arrangement based on you know some airlines for instance all the credit card companies you know Amex has what they call the culinary collective for their centurion lounges which are a group of your resi chefs you know some of the best ones. And I'm particularly a fan of Mike Salominov. I spent a lot of time of my life. I went to college and graduate school in Philly. So two of us got very close over many meals at his restaurants. Absolutely. So LAX with Squirrels. So it's interesting because what they do is the type of partnership is there is often some type of financial exchange where the airline will pay for some kind of basically branding right for saying, hey, we have squirrel jams and pastries and such.

31:06And a lot of it actually is the chef kind of lending their recipes to the commissaries that the lounges have. And one of the things about Delta in particular, which is amazing, I think, is when they're building the lounges, they're not just thinking about the front of the house. They're very much focused on the back of the house. I've toured these kitchens. And, again, I haven't necessarily been to every fancy restaurant's kitchen. But what is impressive to me is just how much focus there is. Because if you're thinking about an airport, what you're optimizing for is so different than, you know, if you're building out a restaurant.

31:39And just to think of, like, the fact that, like, knives have to be tied to the wall, you know, as a security thing. And so, you know, what Delta's does is their carving stations, their cutting stations have to be kind of centrally located. The kitchens where they're making, let's say, the squirrel pastries are approved by, you know, the chefs of those, you know, outlets. And they're coming in and they're, you know, helping consult on those things. And then when it comes time to the execution, I think it's a win-win because I think that as long as you recognize you being the airline or the credit card company that you are kind of pulling in talent that you want to be associated with and that that talent feels comfortable with too.

32:18There are a lot of people with very deep pockets who pass through the LAX outpost, for instance. And so to have something like Squirrel there, I mean, I love Squirrel pastries, you know, whether or not they're in the airport. But I definitely brought home a little bit of jam for my wife.

32:33Aliza:Yeah, I love it. And I think it's cool to see behind the scenes that it is more of a licensing deal with recipes and not like trucking out actual products in the restaurants. That makes a lot of sense. I think there's obviously some liability there for restaurant. Of course. You want to make sure the execution is proper and a lot of testing and checking in with the quality and QC programs there. much more to cover. I mean, let's like, let's board the aircraft and talk about just your interest in airline food, because it's easily maligned. But honestly, there's a huge advantage when an airline is known for having, let's say, decent food.

33:09Aliza:Like, like, you know, it gets it can be very bad. And I'm gonna I'm gonna hear about some bad, bad ones, too. But what is it about the airline meal that's so special and unique? I have thoughts, but I want to hear yours first. I think that, you know, first of all, it's an interesting observation that you bring up because who would have thought that this like tray table meal that's effectively, I don't know, like a TV dinner box where it's like people get so excited about what they're served, whether it's a premium cabin, even an economy. When it's, you know, the pasta versus chicken. And, you know, I've been very lucky long haul.

33:45I try to, you know, get upgrades and I post about all these things too. So if you're also looking to get upgrades, like. You pay for all your flights. Yeah. No, I'm, well, sometimes it's points and, you know, upgrade certificates. And those are how you maximize travel. I don't have the budget to be paying, you know, the$10 ,000 tickets all the time. But it's paid. It's coming out of, you know, my points or budget. You know, airline meals. I think folks feel, first of all, you're a captive audience. There's not that much you can do up there. You know, you can work, you can watch TV if there is one, and you can eat.

34:20And I think a lot of people, you know, airplanes also are a dehydrating environment. You're kind of pressurized, you know, to different kind of, you're in some ways in an unfamiliar territory. And food is a way to kind of bring some comfort to that experience, also a good way to pass the time. And the airlines have done a very good job of at least saying that they're investing in food. They're trying to make the food experience, the dining experience on board better. And so when you get on board, there is an excitement that people feel. The flight attendants, you know, and the premium cabins will come around either with menus or ask for your order.

34:59And people just get excited. I do, too.

35:02Aliza:Yeah. I mean, it's decadent food. I think a big part of that meal service, if you're in the first class or one cabin, you're getting a coarsed out meal. It's very decadent. My theory is obviously the captive audience there, particularly if you're in a long haul overseas with no Wi-Fi. Fuck that when that happens, but it truly does more often than not. So you're kind of sitting there in your own thoughts. And I think we all love food in different ways, but we're all just interested in unique ways dishes are composed. And when you have all that time to scrutinize it, it's kind of a moment to really become connected with food as opposed to maybe fast forward a day before you're a busy person and you're shoving a wrap in your mouth between meetings.

35:44Aliza:So it's like that real like pause and like check out this food. Also, just brand discovery. And I want to segue into that a little bit. You know, you see it in all cabins in economy all the way up. There's, you know, we're passing around baskets of things. We're passing around new products. And this industry is wild to me. CPG plus airlines, because the way that sampling and trial is done in this very captive, sometimes very hungry audience is like just how many brands have we discovered by sitting in an aircraft? So how does that kind of work? It's interesting. I was at an event, you know, I go to all these events and I was actually speaking to the procurement folks on the United team who, and United in particular has had a very rocky relationship with food over the past few years, really since COVID.

36:32Their meals have been among the worst. They say they're getting better. They're partnering now with Chef's Table to say that they're going to introduce these new entrees. I'll see it when I believe it type thing. But anyway, I was having this conversation with the person who is in charge of sourcing snacks for United Airlines. And I was talking about, what are the things that you're looking for? How does this actually work? And it's fascinating. So basically, they, the snack team, come up with a list of potential options in terms of categories. So whether it's chips or pretzels or, you know, whatever it is that they're looking for, they come up with categories and they come up with some target brands and then they put out some form of like RFP and what they, and you know, it's subject to the fact that they like to have like local smaller items that honestly for them, it's cheaper because if they can instead of going to, I don't know, roll gold for pretzels, They can go to like some smaller local Chicago, you know, company producing pretzels.

37:27They can often get that at a better discount than, you know, whatever. And they'll just kind of match what they taste. This lady told me that they have a room the size of, you know, I don't know, like a full size office just stuffed with all different snacks, samples. They're trying it all. And it's interesting because they also go on board. They take these snacks because, you know, food tastes different when you're flying. That's real.

37:52Aliza:The 30 ,000 foot. Oh, it is absolutely real. It's oxygen, right? It's the pressurization. The way that it's, you know, pressurization with kind of the oxygen composition. It tastes different. It looks different. It feels different. It's presented differently. You just, it's, and I think the airlines that notice that and realize that, every airline realized that, but everyone that kind of leans in and kind of maybe even optimizes the menu around that is one that already deserves some form of kudos. We can talk about that. But that's how it works. It's probably no different than how things work on the ground, but it's subject to some of these kind of different conditions.

38:32And again, the airlines really do like to focus on local products, smaller. It's a discovery ask.

38:38Aliza:Do you think these RFPs are requesting product at zero cost as a pure trial, or are they paying for these products? Pure speculation. I think it depends. I think some of them will be on kind of a traditional paid arrangement. Some of them are like, hey, this is really incredible to have your mom and pops call it, I don't know, bar on an airline. And all of a sudden you're going to sell more. So make it free or sell it to us at cost. I think I had my first kind bar on a flight. Yeah. Like these iconic brands, you like, you get these first bites and you're like, oh man. And we could go like 30 minutes on just the Biscoff cookies on Delta.

39:15Aliza:Like that's a whole podcast probably. I mean, just the evolution of Biscoff basically being like the cracker cookie of flying, right? Because it was Delta and now you have all the other ones who've kind of matched. And yeah, and now I have Biscoffs at home and I can't stand them because I eat so many of them. You're made of Biscoff. Are you pro dunking Biscoff into soda, into cola? Not really. That's not your thing? No. You've heard of this before? Yeah, of course. I see people do it all the time. Like me. Like every time. Really? Literally every time. Does it taste better? Yes, it tastes better.

39:47Aliza:I think it's a great way to, like, I'm like Diet Coke every time. I don't drink a lot of soda on the ground, but it's like Diet Coke all the time. But like, I'm just dunking that Biscoff. There's something about a soft cookie, even if it's done in a Diet Cola, that just is better than the crispy one for me. The best type of cookies on an airplane are when they warm them up in first class. And they serve them to you actually warmed up on a skillet. Back in the day, they used to actually bake them fresh. They'd stock cookie dough, basically, on the airplane. And the flight attendants would – those days are over, unfortunately.

40:20Aliza:I think that even if it's the most industrial cookie that's like$3 a bag, if you heat it up on a plane, you're just eating them. And I think that's actually one of the hardest parts of my job is staying healthy. Yeah, right. Of course. And because, again, this is really decadent food because a lot of people – and we haven't really talked about – some people are just not good with flying. And I empathize. And you need, like, comfort when you're flying because it's just difficult for people. So this rich food can really add up. And, yeah, you just got to be aware of picking your battles. Yeah. And then if you layer in drinking too, right?

40:54Aliza:Yeah, layer in alcohol too. That can be another thing. But, you know, I'm so pro-airline food. I think it's I was did a Grub Street diet and they like pulled the headline from that. And and I got some interesting feedback. Most people agreed. I think that we just don't necessarily think about airline food as much and we're always coming from negative space. Segwaying to that idea. Are there a couple airlines that you think are really doing a great job? So let's say two airlines doing great job with in-flight meal service and then two that need some help. Yeah. So I'll I'll I'll give you that. But I have to say that there are some interesting tips that I've kind of curated over my time.

41:33So airlines that are overrated, United, no question. I've already mentioned they need a lot of work. They still need a lot of work. And you do not fly United for the food, period, end. Another one, Turkish Airlines. It is interesting because they have this kind of flying chef that they call in business class. And people kind of go all really excited about it. And I have never had a meal that is memorable on Turkish Airlines. So I didn't want to just kind of shit on all the U.S. airlines. So I figured punching above their weight, Alaska Airlines, really, really good. I had an unbelievable tuna, cruda, like, you know, kind of raw tuna dish, hard to describe.

42:14Yeah. You know, because the problem is these flight attendants don't often, they're not servers. They're not trained. They're trained loosely in like menus. But, you know, they'll often say chicken or fish or, you know, and that was how it was described, but it was awesome. And then Cathay Pacific. I don't know if you've gotten to fly. Yeah, definitely. Amazing. Always has been. Always has been. Yeah. Still really good. There are lounges. You have a noodle bar, which is amazing, and you can kind of customize what you want on board. Yeah. Delicious drinks, delicious food, and a nice mix too. Oftentimes I find when I fly on a lot of the Asian carriers, they kind of over-index on either kind of local cuisine or Western and kind of can't do both.

42:57And I find Catholic Pacific can actually kind of knock out of the park both. But some tips for folks who are thinking about airline food and how do you figure out whether you should even – sometimes people don't even eat. But I would say two things. One, check the menu in advance. I think a lot of people forget to either preorder or even just look at what they want. Knowing your pick, especially when the flight attendants come around and have a limited selection, is really important. And second, take a look at the catering truck that's outside when they're refilling, restocking the airplane. Doe & Co., they are known.

43:33I think they're Austrian-based. They are Austrian-based. I think they are, in my experience, the absolute best airline caterer. When they're stocking your aircraft, you should definitely decide to eat. Like, don't skip the meal.

43:44Aliza:That's really good advice. Which people don't think about that. No way. I also find LSG Sky Chefs to be pretty good as like an airline caterer. Then they're like 10 or so catering companies. The rest of them, you can get a good meal, but those are the two where I've consistently enjoyed my meals. I need to say one quick thing about flight attendants. God bless them. What a job. And yes, true, they may not know the menu and it may just be an A or B choice, but these are individuals who are safety officials. they're like they are greeters they are they're like the front of house they're the back of house in restaurant terms um they are they're amazing and i don't think we give enough credit i think we get really caught up in our own worlds on flights and just be nice to your flight attendants it's like truly incredible work and also fucking dangerous like turbulence happens and just people throw elbows people and like accidentally of course and like it's not an easy job and they're not paid that well and and they're not you know your server and they're not your you know they're not your cook or your housekeeper or whatever like they're they're there as they always say for your safety and like also they're dealt the cards that they're dealt they can't make your food taste better if it was kind of stocked incorrectly or the airline's not investing that much in catering.

45:07And there's only so much. And 99 % of the time, I promise they're there to just try to make your experience better.

45:15Aliza:Now, your specialty is really pure service. You're flying domestic airlines. You're flying the big flag carriers. There's a whole level of airline creators who are trying to do the most obscure flights possible and showing the oddities of flight in different parts of the world. So I'm not trying to ask you this with knowing your background. I I want you to really frame a truly atrocious meal that you had around the world, maybe on like a lesser known carrier. I just am curious because we've seen the photos, seen these like things wrapped in plastic. But do you have an example? I do. I have two.

45:55One will be maybe even more surprising than the first. The first, I ate on Ethiopian Airlines many years ago. something that I could not describe, something the flight attendant described as stew. And it was green. It looked somewhat old and just frankly disgusting. And like, again, and often I'm here to try. So like, I'll take a little bit. And I was like, you know, whatever. But actually the thing that most surprised me in recent memory, and I was struggling to think through this, but it's interesting. So I did this Delta trip. I flew, I went to LAX, saw this awesome new lounge And I flew home in Delta one.

46:33I paid to upgrade. I don't often get to fly Delta because it's expensive and all the reasons. And I was so looking forward to what everyone raves about is their food. And I pre-ordered the signature salmon. It was herb roasted or something. Some herb grilled salmon, whatever it was. And everyone had, you know, I know fish on a plane, some people are like, whatever. But this was labeled signature, pre-order exclusive, ordered it. and I was so freaking disappointed. Yeah. And that's not, I've had amazing fish on planes. To everyone who says that, like absolutely not. Like there are airlines like Air France that knock it out of the park each time.

47:13And with all the hype that Delta gets around its food and service, I was very much expecting something similar and it just kind of left me hanging.

47:23Aliza:Man, John and Vinny, they got to step it up. I know, I know. They have their meatball, but it's interesting. Their meatball is like, they serve one meatball. And like, I don't know, man, like I, I need more than that. Come on. In this protein era, at least give a couple of meatballs. I know. And I'm only teasing John Vinny. I think they're real pioneers with this, this kind of like leveraging food, like chef celebrity with, with airlines. They've been a big part of Delta for a long time. Let's talk about status. Why are Americans obsessed with airline status? You know, I think it really boils down to the fact that airlines and hotels, not just airlines, airlines and hotels have really done a good job of creating this sense of loss aversion around status.

48:08Because once you get it, once you kind of taste the good life, it's very hard to get off that hamster wheel. And we see that with people doing crazy things. I see people doing what they call mileage runs, mattress runs. Like they will go stay at hotels, fly on airlines just to fly because they want to kind of get to that next status tier. People are obsessed with the upgrades. Even if upgrades don't happen, which they're happening less frequently nowadays because people are actually paying for these seats because there's been so much explosion in this demand for premium. But just the opportunity to get an upgrade is a massive attractor.

48:44Getting into the lounges, getting an upgrade at a suite at a hotel. I think it's that. And then everyone wants their travel better, especially those who are frequent road warriors. You're traveling for work. You're traveling for whatnot. And who wants to be the last person to board or to have to gate check their bag or to do all these things? And so status basically gets you out of being kind of the last pick at everything.

49:10Aliza:Yeah. I think of it as just contingency plan. You have status for rebooking. That's why I always try to fly on one airline, Delta, just because it's truly or emergency only, which has happened. I actually was flying the day of that, was it Cloudstrike or that crazy meltdown? I was flying to India and they were able to rebook me in like 24 hours because of status versus like 36 more. Well, I had a friend last weekend who's flying to Amsterdam on a Delta flight. Their flight was canceled. I don't have any status. I called in and the line just to call for a normal member was like three, three and a half hours.

49:49I had texted a friend who has diamond status with Delta. He called in on our behalf and he was connected in 30 seconds.

49:56Aliza:Yep. And that was the difference between getting that last seat versus waiting on hold. And, you know, that seat would have been totally gone by someone else. I think that's the reason you kind of jump through hoops to get those MQDs rolling at the end of the year. And now with credit cards, that's also become a massive player in the status game. Folks are opening cards, accruing more MQDs based on how much they spend on their cards. And I think we're going to see a lot more of that. And especially as people put their tuition, tax payments, things that are insurance bills, kind of really kind of expensive things that are otherwise maybe just drawn out as bank transfers on these credit cards.

50:36There's a lot more points in status and circulation because of that.

50:39Aliza:And you've done great work with credit cards and maybe even unrelated to airlines and really should subscribe to from the trade table for this, like deals for 100 ,000 miles. And you give great tips about that generally. We have to talk about Delta 360. Like what do you know about it? Because I think a lot of people who fly Delta are just fascinated by the inner workings. It feels like there's like maybe a board of people who decide on it. it's clearly based on dollars and not on celebrity because a lot of celebrities are you hear on podcasts like begging for 360 and they don't get it but you hear people who got it who are clearly so like what do you know zach about this this this magical 360 button okay so first of all for those who are only hoping for delta united and american also have something similar okay so so so it's invite only status it is sits above anything that's published you will not see reference to this kind of on airline websites.

51:35Delta 360, American Concierge Key, and United Global Services. Two kind of ways to get there. First is the spending, the dollar amount, maybe three ways, dollars. And it's actually, it's wild because the kind of the board or the group that decides who is awarded these statuses, it is a region-specific dollar amount. So if you are based in New York, you are going to need to spend a lot more than someone who's based in, I don't know, called Cincinnati, because you are evaluated against a cohort of other New York-based flyers when it comes to being awarded that status. Public figures. So yes, there are some celebrities that get it without, you know, just because they, you know, whatever, they're big shots.

52:21And then the final one, which a lot of people kind of forget, is that your corporate travel department actually often, if you are a big spender with these airlines, they're awarded kind of an allotment of passes that they can give to executives and stuff. And so a lot of these big, a lot of the travel managers at big kind of companies, they're, you know, with Delta 360 and whatnot, just because they're key decision makers in, you know, their accounts.

52:46Aliza:Interesting. So there is a way if you have corporate travel and you have a corporate travel team, maybe getting in touch with them and saying, I know you get an allotment and being And very clear in your email that I know you may have this. It doesn't hurt to ask. It absolutely doesn't hurt to ask. And I will tell you that more often than not, a lot of these passes end up going to the ones who are the closest to the corporate travel managers. Exactly. Be nice to your corporate travel managers if that's your world. I want to talk about pricing and, you know, like the oil crisis in the Middle East.

53:15Aliza:You know, it's been interesting to follow. Clearly, a crisis is a terrible thing to waste. And with these increasing oil prices, the airlines were able to jack up the prices right away and have really clear reasons to do it and directive. But those prices remain pretty high. And the oil prices have – as of now, they're higher. But like things – when things get better, they go down. But it seems like just from what I'm reading and reading your work is these prices might not go down. Yeah, these prices are kind of here to stay. Interesting. And I think the hardest part is stomaching the argument that the airlines are making around it, which is that airfare is cheap still because they say relative to groceries and all the other things, if you adjust for inflation, airfare is cheap.

54:04I hate that argument. That's just not – it's fine to raise airfare. This is supply and demand, one-on-one, economics, whatever. But this – and so that falls on deaf ears. I will say that without Spirit, it has really – I've noticed in markets that Spirit used to fly. Flights even between South Florida and New York, incredibly more expensive. Los Angeles to Las Vegas, shuttle route that they used to operate, more expensive. So we're dealing with less competition. We're dealing obviously with oil, but oil has kind of stabilized a little bit. And, you know, airlines have always looked, always looking for ways to increase airfares.

54:47And, you know, one of the things they also do is they stop flying routes. You know, they'll say, or, you know, instead of flying New York to Florida six times a day, now we'll fly three times a day. So they're, you know, half as many seats. So all of a sudden it's, again, supply and demand. And unfortunately, I think that this, you know, period of like higher fares is here to stay for a while.

55:05Aliza:It's interesting that you talk about the airlines going out of business because it seems like there's others that are still teetering at the peak of closure too. So with that mentality and logic, the prices are just going to go up. Yeah. I mean, we're recording this in New York, right? So JetBlue is technically the hometown airline, but they've been really beefing up now in Fort Lauderdale. Spirit's gone, so they want to take up kind of some of their route network there. And they're going to fly less from LaGuardia. And LaGuardia is going to get more. you know flights from there are going to get more expensive um so it's it's unfortunate do you like any airports yes i i i do i i think la guardia is stunning it's stunning it really is stunning i was just flew out of there last week it's breathtaking it's so so so well done good job guys i mean like obviously many years overdue yes but like amazing um you know san francisco over you know they're they're working on some of the terminals but you know that new harvey milk terminal is like it's stunning really beautiful internationally singapore dubai doha i mean you clearly heard i hate heath row and i will never change i feel like everyone does um it's obviously the asian airports you know those mega ones are awesome too yeah yeah milan is truly the worst airport in the world oh my god and the air conditioning or the lack thereof in the summer oh my god i i'm i'm sweaty by the time i'm oh my gosh um well i want to close and just please just Give me your craziest travel story.

56:31Aliza:I'm so interested. You fly 155 ,000 miles a year. So you've definitely had some snafus. Well, you had mentioned people doing crazy things for airline status. So I will give you my craziest. I completed last year JetBlue's limited time challenge. They called it 25 for 25. So they were celebrating 25 years of their anniversary, 25th anniversary. and it to the to their deal was if you flew to 25 unique destinations within like say a six-month period we will award you 25 years of lead status and you don't have to re-qualify you just do this one six-month period so i was like okay well this is my work so you know i let me let me see if i can attempt it i ended up doing as part of this maybe 10 of the destinations organically and then 15 of them on these crazy, two crazy trips where I started at 6 a.m.

57:28first flight of the day and did not get back to New York until the following evening. And I did not sleep anywhere. I just flew. And this is obviously a food podcast. So you'll appreciate that the first, the second one I did is started Martha's Vineyard in the morning. So I had breakfast there. I did I'd have a few minutes. I left the airport. I had lunch at the Capital One Landing in D.C., which is Jose Andres, like really good food, and then dinner in Santo Domingo that night. And I just kept – so it was crazy. But I also subsisted on a lot of plantain chips and chewy bars.

58:03Aliza:Yeah, they have good food and they've got the good snacks there. Yeah. They're real good snacks. It's amazing that you travel so much. And what do you like to do when you're not traveling? like when you leave the airport. Yeah, what am I doing? And not working and like writing and going to the airport, like lounge or hotel. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I am, I am extra, I keep healthy, try to run. I live on the Upper West Side. So I am, you know, in Central Park, even if I'm not running, just like outdoors. I love the outdoors. I love to hike. I love to like really embrace nature because so much of my time is spent in like kind of these confined metal tubes in airports.

58:40Obviously love going out, eating, spending time with friends, family, and cooking. I also, when I'm home, I think I cook like once a month now, which is sad.

58:50Aliza:Okay. Get you back up in those weekend meals. Yeah. It's hard. It's really hard to, everyone says this, like finding time to do. Finding time. So Zach, what's the luggage looking like? What's the setup right now? I have a pre-packed backpack. I use the Away commuter backpack. I've been using that. They've had two iterations of that backpack. The first one, I kept having zipper issues. I kept telling them about it. They finally introduced this new generation. So that is pre-packed. It's in my apartment, ready to go at any time. And I use a four-wheel, two-me carry-on, and I never check a bag. You never.

59:22Aliza:That's like a golden rule, right? Golden rule. I'm happy to pay for laundry. One thing I actually wrote about in my newsletter that I think a lot of people forget, especially domestically, if I'm on a longer trip, I will ship home clothes. And I'll often replace it with trinkets or whatever that I've acquired over the trip just so that I can fit in the carry-on. Because if you check a bag, the same way I say that I often don't advise people to get to the airport extra early because you're wasting time. It's dead time waiting for the checked bag, waiting for that flight. So I'm happy to pay extra to send stuff home.

59:54Aliza:Yeah, the shipping home is a really, really good tip. This episode is brought to you by Goodr. A few months back, we were down in Santonia in northern Spain, shooting our Founder in the Field episode with Becca Milstein from Fish Wife. We were out on a boat with the anchovy fishermen, and the sun was absolutely blazing. And the one thing that really saved me was my Goodr sunglasses. Goodr makes active eyewear for everyone. Running, strolling, or in my case, standing on a rocking boat, trying to not drop our podcast gear into the Bay of Biscay. The frames of these glasses have this grip coating so they never slip, even when sweating or getting hit with sea spray.

1:00:34Aliza:And they're polarized with UV400 protection, so the glare off the water was just not there. Gooder sunglasses come in these wild colorways, or will have you representing your favorite sports team. I went with the classic black pair. There are styles for everyone. Head to gooder.com slash taste to claim$10 off your first order. That's G-O-O-D-R dot com slash taste. This episode is brought to you by Quince. After a summer on the road, including trips to Spain, Colorado, and Chicago, coming home and cooking in my own kitchen just hits different. And this year, that kitchen looks a lot nicer because I've been cooking with Quince Cookware.

1:01:14Aliza:Full disclosure, I use this stuff, and you should too. Their stainless steel pans heat evenly and just don't quit. And their ceramic nonstick collection makes cleanup almost insultingly easy. And their chef's knives are sharp and balanced to take care of that guacamole recipe you've been looking to perfect. And it's not just cooking gear. Their table linens, glassware, and flatware make the table itself look like you made an effort even though you didn't break the bank. Everything's priced 50 to 80 % less than comparable brands because Quince works directly with manufacturers and skips the markup.

1:01:51Aliza:Upgrade your everyday in the kitchen, download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers, or go to quince.com slash taste. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns, now available in Canada and the UK too. That's quince.com slash taste. Plan B is a backup birth control option that's there for you when things don't go according to plan. It specifically works after unprotected sex and before pregnancy occurs by temporarily delaying ovulation. Plan B is available nationwide at all major retailers and through delivery apps like DoorDash. No ID, prescription, or age requirement. It's the number one OBGYN-recommended brand of emergency contraception, and it won't impact your future fertility.

1:02:38That's Freedom to Be. Use as directed.

1:02:41Aliza:Zach, on This is Taste, we ask guests about their discerning taste. So to close this interview, here's a little rapid-fire Fast and Furious taste check. Travel edition. Are you ready? Let's do it. Your favorite airport? Singapore. Economy meal or skip it entirely? Skip unless you're flying JetBlue because they have Nightingale ice cream bars. Oh, yeah. Those are really good. Really good. Caviar in the sky, worth it or an overrated flex? I think it's overrated. I have to agree. Okay, so we're going to the lounges. The pancake machine. Genius or gimmick? I have to say it's a genius. and because it was 11 p.m.

1:03:21in San Francisco, I was starving, super jet lagged. The lounge food was disgusting, but they had the pancake machine. And so it was like 11.30 p.m. and I had like five pancakes.

1:03:30Aliza:So great. The best non-alcoholic drink you've had in a lounge? Cathay Pacific. Their signature drink is called the Cathay Delight, which is coconut milk, kiwi juice, a little bit of mint. Really good. Delicious. One dish you'd bring back if you ran an airline's catering program. Back in the day, I'm a little bit of a history buff. I was too young to fly on TWA. Certainly, maybe my parents took me once, but certainly not in premium. They used to do steak carving. And I've seen pictures and have heard from kind of readers who got to experience that 100%. So cool. Do they do that in any airline now?

1:04:11Aliza:I've never seen it. Seen the trolley out. Yeah. You hear about the old days when they used to do that. So sushi on the plane. Yes or no? No. Yeah. I mean, maybe if you're flying on like a Japanese airline. Maybe. But any other airline, no. Last great meal on the ground, not in the air. I talked about a long weekend in Philly. I went back to Zahav. I love that place. Me too. Love Mike. Love what they're doing there. Zach, thank you so much for joining us. This has been such an informative conversation. Likewise, I'm happy to be here. Follow me. Hit that subscribe on the newsletter. It's free and excited to kind of keep reporting from the sky.

1:04:55Aliza:This is Taste is hosted and produced by Eliza Barbanal and me, Matt Rodbar. The show is edited by lead producer Clayton Gumbert and supervised by Pat Stango, Director of Media Production and Development at Penguin Random House. Thanks to Shalia Harris and the production team at Penguin Random House. Theme music by Steve Rydell. Episode portraits by Louise Zergon Pomeroy. Logo design by Ellie Skirzat and Ian Dingham. Visit Taste Online at tastecooking.com and make sure to subscribe to our newsletter to keep updated on all cool things in the world of taste.