In short
Daniel Kessler (Interpol guitarist/co-founder) talks about how his New York and international restaurant life evolved—from late-90s vegetarian “sustenance” eating near NYU to today’s deep dives in natural wine, seasonal produce, and specific dishes. He also recounts early-2000s “splashy” label dinners, touring backstage food, and memories tied to NYC food institutions.
Guests/backgrounds
Guest is Daniel Kessler, founding member of Interpol (formed as NYU students in 1997). He’s also a restaurateur/investor, including Bergen Hill (Carroll Gardens crudo bar) co-conceived with Ravi DeRosi, and a fixture in NYC cocktail/natural wine circles.
Key claims
Early Interpol era prioritized drinking and comfort food over “foodie” exploration; later travel increased culinary curiosity. He prefers reliable comfort restaurants over chasing trends. He says opening restaurants is too painful/risky to pursue personally.
Notable examples
Superiority Burger (yuba, date shake, tofu/halumi-style special); Ultra Paradiso; See Here fanzine store; Stromboli and Benny’s Burritos (East Village); Kate’s Joint/KCWN; Veselka/KK’s; Il Molino; Seymour Stein serenading him about Ocean Parkway; Barcelona markets and Ultramarinos; Primavera festival; Copenhagen’s Surt Pizza (Rianata pizza, anchovy-minced tomato umami); Bergen Hill kitchen/wine list (Robert Boer) and dishes like egg carpaccio inspired by Bar Mut in Barcelona.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VODining in NYC: Kessler's Favorites
0:03 to 0:30
Kessler discusses his favorite restaurants and eateries in New York.
“So you were scrolling on Marketplace and there it was, the bike you'd been searching for.”
Dining in NYC: Kessler's Favorites
2:20 to 3:19
Kessler discusses his favorite restaurants and eateries in New York.
“I think I interviewed the band 22 years ago.”
Superiority Burger: A Culinary Gem
3:19 to 4:17
Kessler shares his thoughts on Superiority Burger's offerings.
“and have dishes that you love or reliable or just like the room or something like that.”
Nostalgia and the NYC Food Scene
4:17 to 5:00
Kessler reminisces about the NYC food scene and personal memories.
“I find all the vegetables are in season that they get excited about from the farmer's market.”
Early Days of Interpol and Food
5:00 to 6:15
Discussion of Kessler's early experiences with food while starting Interpol.
“I lived at 7th and A in the early 2000s.”
Vegetarian Dining in the 90s
6:15 to 7:12
Kessler recalls his vegetarian diet and favorite spots from the 90s.
Kate's Joint and NYC's Comfort Food
7:12 to 9:07
Discussion about Kate's Joint and its impact on Kessler's food journey.
“I love that place I go to Zen Palette Nice Like on Union Square The vegetarian mooshu platter at Zen Palette Do you remember that at all?”
Encounters with Alan Ginsberg
9:07 to 10:06
Kessler shares a memorable encounter with poet Alan Ginsberg in a diner.
“And then also there was like, um, in around that same time, I would not go to Veselka as much.”
The Legacy of Dojo and Other Eats
10:06 to 11:11
Kessler discusses the legacy of Dojo restaurant and other dining experiences.
“The humanity of that interaction with, you know, the Ginsberg.”
The Legacy of Dojo and Other Eats
11:15 to 11:56
Kessler discusses the legacy of Dojo restaurant and other dining experiences.
“And Smithy is bringing that tradition into the modern kitchen.”
Show all 27 chapters
The Legacy of Dojo and Other Eats
12:22 to 13:38
Kessler discusses the legacy of Dojo restaurant and other dining experiences.
“One thing nobody tells you about moving out of a one-bedroom rental apartment in Brooklyn and into an actual house upstate is that people start visiting.”
The Legacy of Dojo and Other Eats
13:53 to 14:57
Kessler discusses the legacy of Dojo restaurant and other dining experiences.
“When you travel for a living the way we do for Taste Travels, you see the same thing over and over.”
Early Days of Interpol and Food
15:09 to 17:21
Discover how the band's early success influenced their food experiences.
“You know, Interpol starts, you know, you make some scratch.”
Dining Experiences with Labels
17:22 to 19:49
Hear about memorable dining experiences with record labels and industry figures.
“maybe a little bit later, when you're starting, like labels are taking you out, maybe management.”
Barcelona's Culinary Scene
19:54 to 22:09
Explore Barcelona's diverse food landscape and local favorites.
“So over meals, like are you thinking about the food at all during your time as a band when you're taking on these splashy meals?”
Primavera Festival Insights
22:10 to 24:18
Learn about the Primavera festival and its significance in Barcelona.
“And it's like, so it's like a little bread and it's kind of almost like a stick of butter.”
Touring and Food Experiences
24:19 to 27:32
Understand how touring affects food choices and preferences.
“So it's, and it's amazing what it does for the city.”
Copenhagen's Pizza Scene
27:33 to 28:00
Delve into the best pizza experiences in Copenhagen and personal favorites.
“But to me, I think Copenhagen, when it's, like, one of the great places, because they really know how to celebrate summer, you know, all of a sudden you'll be, like, somewhere amazing outside.”
Pizza Paradise at Sir
28:00 to 30:00
Discover the exceptional pizza experience at Sir in Copenhagen.
“And I went on the show, and I said this.”
Bergen Hill Memories
30:00 to 32:59
Reflecting on the unique dining experience and contributions at Bergen Hill.
“And then sometimes maybe a higher level and so forth.”
Future Restaurant Aspirations
32:59 to 35:22
Exploring Daniel Kessler's thoughts on opening new restaurants.
“And the fact that people will bring up something about missing Bergen Hill or the fact that it even exists is really nice thing to hear.”
Future Restaurant Aspirations
39:54 to 40:21
Exploring Daniel Kessler's thoughts on opening new restaurants.
“So you were scrolling on Marketplace and there it was, the bike you'd been searching for.”
Rapid-Fire Taste Check
40:21 to 42:00
Engaging in a quickfire round of culinary preferences and restaurant favorites.
“Guests are brought to the discerning taste.”
Nostalgic Restaurant Memories
42:00 to 44:00
Explore memorable restaurants and their impact on dining experiences.
“I was a really big fan of that restaurant.”
Fast Food Alternatives
44:00 to 45:20
Discover non-traditional fast food options that satisfy cravings.
“And I think it's important, I think, in New York to have that.”
Culinary Adventures in Tokyo
45:20 to 47:10
Learn about the vibrant food scene in Tokyo and personal experiences there.
“Your favorite city in the world to visit for food.”
Favorite Sandwiches Revealed
47:10 to 49:06
Uncover unique sandwich recommendations from various locations.
“And so it's like, it's fun to check out new spots.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00This episode is brought to you by Facebook. So you were scrolling on Marketplace and there it was, the bike you'd been searching for. You sent a message and it turned out the seller was super chatty, kind of funny, and an avid cyclist. The next thing you know, you're in a cycling crew. Well, a community cycling group. The thing about Facebook, you might find more than what you're looking for. From a browse to a bike ride, this summer, find more on Facebook. Plan B is a backup birth control option that's there for you when things don't go according to plan. It specifically works after unprotected sex and before pregnancy occurs by temporarily delaying ovulation.
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1:08Daniel Kessler:Seymour Stein, you know, this legendary music industry figure, just him and I were talking like, we started talking about Brooklyn. And I was like, oh yeah, my brother lived on Ocean Parkway, like in the 90s and blah, blah, blah. Like, he just starts singing this song about Ocean Parkway. And he has like an angelic voice. It sounds like amazing. And he's just like singing to me in this like really fancy restaurant about Ocean Parkway. This is Taste. I'm your host, Matt Rodbard. Daniel Kessler is a guitarist and founding member of Interpol, one of New York's defining bands. He also helped build Bergen Hill, a beloved Carroll Gardens crudo bar he conceived from scratch with Ravi DeRosi, and quietly became a fixture of the city's cocktail and natural wine scene.
1:52On the eve of Interpol's eighth album, This Mirror Ways a Ton, Kessler joins me to talk about what turned a late-night bar regular into a serious eater, dining between Barcelona and the East Village, and we remember the early 2000s New York City food scene. I hope you enjoy this episode.
2:15Daniel Kessler, welcome to This Is Today. It's great to see you. Thanks for having me. It's a pleasure to be here. I think I interviewed the band 22 years ago. Wow. Antics, great album. Thank you. It was a cool conversation. It did well. It sold some coffees. Did okay. I said I remember it well.
2:33Daniel Kessler:Oh, you remember it well. Antics, I remember it well. Okay. I mean, we could talk about music all day. We will get into a little bit of that, but I do want to talk about food and your deep connection with restaurants in New York and just like your travels. You're obviously very interested in the culinary arts. but where do you right now in New York when you're not on tour and not playing where do you what's your restaurant rotation I mean I feel like I'm not as like oh what's the latest as I used to be you know keeping up it's kind of exhausting and there's always so many things besides things that catch your eye while you know walking about which is cool so I lately I've probably just been going to like old steadies that feel good especially when you don't get to be home too often you're like you want to go places that you know make you feel good and have dishes that you love or reliable or just like the room or something like that.
3:24Daniel Kessler:So I go to Ultra Paradiso a lot because I went there last night and it was great. And it's really just, I always feel great there. And the dishes are just always on point. I go to Superiority Burger. Now you got me twisted. I know, something about it. Superiority Burger. But I go there all the time. Yeah. That place is like kind of an amazing spot in so many ways. But there's also those dishes that, you know, that are part of the establishment menu. But then the specials, like the yuba for sure. And the date shake, which is the greatest thing of all time. Date shake is great. I love that date shake.
3:59Daniel Kessler:But then there's also, oh, and also they have this, I think it's pumpkin, not butternut squash. I think it's pumpkin puree, and then they have these, I have a halumi where you can get tofu, which I really like, this deep-fried tofu, and it's really delicious and a little spice, and it's just a unique sort of something that they could only create. But all their specials are always great. All the salads are always great. I find all the vegetables are in season that they get excited about from the farmer's market. I mean, Brooks is going to the farmer's market every single day. He's amazing. And then that place is also, you just look around.
4:28Daniel Kessler:It's like, I feel like if you, it reminds me almost in that scene in The Usual Suspects when at the end of it, like the film when they're, spoiler alert. But in the film, they like look at the wall and they realize like all the things they've been pulling to put the story together, these little things. All the walls, there's like a thing that reminds me of something from a yester New York, like a bit of a tangent. But there's like a sign there for this fanzine store called See Here. And I hadn't thought about this store in a really long time until I saw the sign. But then it brought me back to being 18 years old, having just moved to New York.
4:59Daniel Kessler:And it was a fanzine store that was like in the basement. On 7th Street. I used to go all the time. No way. I lived at 7th and A in the early 2000s. I loved See Here. Oh, my God, man. That's amazing. You'd get your Comet Bus. You'd get your big takeover. exactly the smell do you remember the smell of it I don't remember the smell so much but to me it was like also like you get that one paper clip fancy the ones that you I just remember going there being like waiting is it in yet is it in yet and also it was like a New York where a store like that could exist and probably bringing in very little per day or per week but it was obviously someone's passion project so it's cool that you remember because there's very few people I know who do remember I remember going there it was like really kind of a little damp it was like No windows.
5:43And the smell, I just remember it was all print. It was like this fine print smell. Let's go back a little further. When you started the band Interpol in 1997 as NYU students, take me back to your restaurant memories of that late 90s New York. I mean, around that time, I definitely did not have taste for food as far as like,
6:08Daniel Kessler:oh, it was more of like, A, what I could afford. I was a vegetarian too and so it was like ate what I could afford which wasn't much but it'd be like a very poor diet but it'd be like you know it was also like the arrow of like two slices and a coke or whatever it'd be like three bucks three bucks super cheap so there's like there was a few slice stores I frequent I lived not I lived in the East Village so there's a place that's on University I think they moved to it's a place called Stromoli like on of course 2nd Avenue well now it's there but there was one on University like around 12th Street I don't know if they moved there obviously Stromboli is not like someone invents it someone's going to pull that name sooner or later or after a certain few blocks and then I would actually go to Benny's Burritos on Avenue A I still remember that phone number by heart for like delivery 254-2054 and like get the super vegetarian burrito across from the sidewalk that's a great little block right there it was great that place was great it was like you know the wait staff was always like really cool like a lot of indie rocker punkish kind of people definitely it was always a good vibe I love that place I go to Zen Palette Nice Like on Union Square The vegetarian mooshu platter at Zen Palette Do you remember that at all?
7:20Daniel Kessler:I do remember that That was such a good Yeah totally And I came out I also got like I lived very close by there So I'd also get the delivery I don't know It was also a very different era Of like you call people up And do you know Order You would literally phone For those younger You'd actually just call them And they'd get your order And it'd be all messed up And you'd be like God damn Damn it I now have to call them back Did you ever go to Kate's Joint? I went to KCWN all the time. Tell me, I've been bringing it up a lot because I have memories of it, but I want to know yours, what the scene was like and what the food was like.
7:51What do you remember about KCWN?
7:52Daniel Kessler:It was very comfort food when I became a vegetarian. I'm a pescetarian now, but when I was a vegetarian back then, it was like I had a bad diet. And anyway, before that, then it was actually a pretty big sacrifice. I'm not going to eat. But then also the things that I missed were things that they had, with all this comfort food kind of stuff. And so they had like a club sandwich that was like delicious at Kate's. And at that time, there weren't that many options. You had like a Zen palate for one side, a little bit healthier, but probably not, maybe even that healthy. Probably not. Richness of sauce and all that.
8:24Daniel Kessler:And then you had like, you know, Kate's joint, like, it was Kate's joint, right? Exactly. Kate's joint. But it was like, again, kind of, it was like a cool, cool punk rocker kind of people working there. Like great vibe, Avenue B, a different time period. Angelica's Kitchen. Yeah, yeah. Angelica's on 8th. 12th Street. 12th, sorry. But I would end up going there all the time later on. But in my early days of like New York, I wasn't into that place. It was like too healthy for me. Yeah. So I'd walk by there and I'd go to like Kate's. It was like macrobiotic. I would end up going there all the time.
8:55Daniel Kessler:And that's something maybe I'll like bring up later on. But like that place was like, it was like really became something very special to me. But at that time I was just like, what are you guys doing in there? You know? And also all these punk rockers like there as well in that time period. So yeah, but Kate's was awesome. It was like great. And then also there was like, um, in around that same time, I would not go to Veselka as much. My brother like loved Veselka. So I would go there, but I would go, like me and my friends, we'd go to this place called KK's, which was on first Avenue and like 12th street.
9:22Daniel Kessler:I want to say it was a, I think it was a Polish diner. And they had like, and they also, but they had like great pierogies and like great, all that kind of, you know, like that kind of stuff. Really, really great for like, you know, great. Just like that was like one of those places that we lean on and all is empty. And then they had like a really nice like background, um. garden or something yeah they're like a like like dead courtyard back that we like discovered was amazing and i'm one of my matching memories is actually being there in my early days this is pre-97 though this is like there and having like lunch on a weekday afternoon and then alan ginsburg uh was there and then he had like he was eating his borscht and then he had like like pink all over his beard and he's just sitting there alone with his like pink holes it was like Him and I are like this.
10:04Daniel Kessler:I was like, wow, that's Alan Ginsberg. And then just like Pink Beard. The humanity of that interaction with, you know, the Ginsberg. And Ginsberg used to hang out over at like where Superiority is now. Oh, Odessa. Odessa. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, he used to. That was like one of his spots. That's amazing. That makes sense. He made his round of like. Exactly. Yeah. Oh, my God. It's like we could go back. We could talk about Red Bamboo, I'm sure. Oh, Red Bamboo. I would get Red Bamboo my way home from work. Yeah, totally. Red Bamboo. And then lastly, just one more is like a dojo. Oh, ginger dressing. Ginger dressing.
10:38Daniel Kessler:That was a dojo. Both of them are one of the same arcs and the one that was like Mercer. Mercer, yeah, Soho. That was an interesting – yeah, there was two, but it's the same. And, you know, Brooks has a photo of dojo. I was actually – because I was at Superiority early this week. And then someone we were talking about something else in the wall, and he actually was talking about that photograph. Yeah. Which was – I don't mean – we both shared anecdotes about dojo at that moment. I think a dojo could reopen. Really? I feel like it could. Theoretically. Theoretically. I don't have a room or anything.
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15:32Daniel Kessler:and then i think traveling helps a little bit because you know exposes you to other parts of the world and this and that and you meet people take you places so that's always like a great thing you know um i think that but i know i don't think at that time it was definitely still hitting the same spots and it was also food was like all right let's get some substance in you and then like go party you know i mean i think it was a bit like that kind of time it was more like get a little you get like again like probably similar diet like like pasta and like or pizza or something like that that time was like very party days of interpol as well so it was more of like definitely wasn't something i was thinking about you know really a night off would be like comfort food or something but no it wasn't it wasn't like it was definitely less it was more like drinking and plus like adventures and not so much about totally and like honestly it's so interesting you bring that up because i think a band of of acclaim you know of in their early 20s now would probably have a different point of view would probably want to go be taken to uh borgo right like be like like that's where i want to be taken borgo well now yeah of course but i'm I'm saying like a band that is coming into its own at a young age, food is actually more important now to these younger.
16:45And you may interact with you. I'm sure a lot of bands you play with who open for you are younger and they maybe have more food focused energy.
16:53Daniel Kessler:I think you're right. And also there's an awareness about what's out there and an interest that wasn't quite out there. And in a way to find out what's out there or get a sense, good or bad, in the sense that people like go to restaurants now being like, I've already looked up what I want and what looks good to me. so I'm ready to order, which is, I don't know, I think sometimes it's good to not know those things and kind of figure it out on the spot. But no, at that time I was in 2002, we weren't so into food. I wasn't so into food. Yeah, it was more sustenance. But what about just going back to that era, maybe a little bit later, when you're starting, like labels are taking you out, maybe management.
17:27Do you remember any real splash-ups?
17:28Daniel Kessler:I think that definitely, you know, because you got to go to restaurants that you would never, you weren't even aware that it exists or you had any business going to. so I do yeah around like that time it was definitely kind of fun to be taken out by people who are you know interested in like what we can do for you and blah blah blah and all that kind of stuff but went to Il Molino and things like that that I just had no you know I never went to like nice restaurants so it was a real treat and also like Il Molino I can't remember I mean I think it's still the same when you walk by you can't see inside I think and at that time it was very much well known as being like you know like one of the better Italian restaurants in New York city.
18:09Daniel Kessler:And the fact that it was always like fancy cars, like just waiting on standby outside for people who are important people to come out, I guess, you know, and, and so going there and then they had a restaurant in Tribeca. I think it was like Egevio or something like that. And I do, and, and I do have like a very fond memory of being taken out by the sire people. And, and the reason I mentioned this, cause it was like Seymour Stein, you know, this legendary music industry figure. He signed so many important acts and like, and just really from all over, just really incredible, incredible ears, incredible person and persona.
18:44Daniel Kessler:And, but we're at this dinner and then like, he's right next to me and, and we're talking and then somehow we started talking about, just him and I were talking like, we started talking about Brooklyn. And I was like, oh yeah, my brother lived on Ocean Parkway, like in the nineties and blah, blah, blah. Like, and it's a pretty desolate area at that time, whatever. and then all of a sudden he just starts singing this song about Ocean Parkway and he has like an angelic voice he sounds like amazing and he's just like singing to me in this really fancy restaurant about Ocean Parkway being serenaded by Seymour Stein yeah it was like and there's definitely a part of me that steps on my body and looking at this moment being like this is crazy Seymour Stein is just like this guy you know but it was incredible so that was memorable and then like another record label took us like Andoshin or something like that.
19:33Oh, like an Indochine. But I think Indochine was like probably,
19:35Daniel Kessler:that was like early 2000s. And I think Indochine was like big, what, 90s. It was like more of like a 90s, even probably earlier, like maybe late 80s. It seems like kind of the George Michael, Madonna, like early 90s kind of MTV vibe. So interesting. So over meals, like are you thinking about the food at all during your time as a band when you're taking on these splashy meals? Or is it just about who's in the room? Oh, I'm thinking about the meal. I'm like, what do I want to get? You know, I think I've got to make this count, kind of. For sure. Make this count? Yeah, you know. I mean, I think you're probably only going to get so much of a vibe anyway from those kind of meals with a label and that kind of moment.
20:18Daniel Kessler:So it's a bit of both, I think. Hopefully it's a good time, you know, but you're definitely thinking about the meal, too. Wait, so tell me about Barcelona. Do you live on and off there? I do. Yeah, so you have a place there, a place in New York. I do. Rad. Cool food city, man. Yeah, it is. It's amazing. What's it like restaurant-wise for you as a local or semi-local? What's your rotation like? You could say names or just the style of dining in Barcelona. I mean, it's got so many different types of foods that are actually great. It's not just one. There's obviously things that you think of when you think of – I wouldn't even say Spain.
20:52Daniel Kessler:Spain is a very regional country so far. you can get good you know obviously dishes from other regions in barcelona but it's really like um but barcelona there's like yeah i mean there's like amazing like pizzerias for instance that people don't know and italian restaurants and and so forth and um uh they were like super early into like natural wine as far as all that so there's amazing you know restaurants for wine as well um but yeah i don't know for me it's like uh i when i go back there like there's sometimes yeah you you get excited about your again similar here there's things that you're like comfortable with that you want to go back to and like check in on.
21:26And also because it's such a seasonal place,
21:29Daniel Kessler:like good restaurants there are really going to abide by like what's in season. For sure. And there are so many markets like in Barcelona for every neighborhood. It's really incredible. Every neighborhood has this market and it's, you know, there's history into that market. You feel it. And some of them do close at times and become something else, but they rarely do. They're really like the neighborhood is dependent upon it. And then it's really fun to go into those markets and then they have counters as well. so you can find like the one counter that you're like that guy is great for this or that and you sit there and you have a meal and they're all and then you have this like regularity and connection with them so it's like it's fun when they finally accept you and make you kind of like yeah you're like the American who's hanging out Ultramarinas Marine do you ever go there?
22:10Daniel Kessler:all the time yeah I love that place that place is really good that's definitely one of my go to spots and they're they have they did something I went there once a couple years ago on my birthday and they have a thing that they took off the menu for a while and I was like upset about it a little bit. It's a montadito de Bottaga. And it's like, so it's like a little bread and it's kind of almost like a stick of butter. It was like so thick that it's almost like cheese. It's like so, and it's like, and then their Bottaga is like different than like the one that you find like in the pasta. And like, and then on top of it, it was like incredible.
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22:45Daniel Kessler:And then all of a sudden it disappeared because they were like working on a 2.0 version. And then it was like, I was really upset about it for a while. And then like they kind of bought and they bring it. Now it's back on. It's a 2.0. But at that time they achieved. So for my birthday, basically, they gave me like a vacuum sealed thing of portaga and a vacuum sealed thing of like butter and then a baguette. They're so good. That's right. That's hospitality right there. That's great. They're like, it's a wonderful restaurant. It's definitely one. And then it's like, it's also there's, have you been?
23:11Daniel Kessler:Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've had that portaga butter dish for sure. Like I had it last June, man. I love it. And then there's also amazing because the back room is like this, like it feels like you just have to do a different scent. and it's like, yeah, and it's like, and the front is actually just your, it looks like your average like tavern and that's like the point of it, you know. It's only been there for like three years, but it feels like it's been there forever. I love that spot, it's great. And there's actually a pizzeria just across the way called La Balmesina. Oh man. Which is one of the top ranked pizzas in Europe and that place is great.
23:36Daniel Kessler:The Parmigiano pizza is like amazing there. What's your Barcelona time like? How much time do you spend there? These days it's been tricky just because we've been touring so much. I haven't been able to, unfortunately. But there's been times like I was there, you know, all of lockdown until recently I was probably more there than here for sure other than New York so but so yeah it's like definitely like home what's Primavera like having that festival and being like your hometown festival in some ways is that pretty fun it was like last year I landed from Tokyo and I went got my bicycle and went right to Primavera it was actually pretty amazing so it's great I mean it's like an amazing festival and they're they're like you know they're special people who put that together who created it who curated it and as that festival has also grown i think they've done a very good job of like growing with it introducing maybe bigger global stars like you know pop stars even at that but then still maintaining a cool like you know like artists or underground things or seasoned artists who have like a certain kind of like history that's you know appreciated by maybe only a select amount of people but like really deserve their spotlight and they've maintained that and it's you know i didn't obviously i didn't get to go this year but i went last year and it was like really well run and it was great and the lineup was amazing.
24:46Daniel Kessler:So it's, and it's amazing what it does for the city. I know, I've heard it. It's amazing it's in the city. It's like one of the world's great festivals, but it's just like, it's on the water, but it's close enough to like the center of town. You know, Barcelona is very small at the end of the day. That's the thing about it. It feels like when you, if you're just, like any city, if you're just spending time in a car, you don't get to really know, but I never get into a car in Barcelona. I just bicycle everywhere or walk everywhere unless I'm going to the airport. That's it. It's a great advice.
25:10What's the food like at Primavera, do they actually do a pretty good job? Never really had it. I've never had any food. It's not your thing. Yeah. Plus, it goes
25:16Daniel Kessler:on so late. It starts, like, so late. I mean, I think it's really well designed, and, I mean, I don't even know, like, I guess it's, you know, they have the permits to do that. It goes till three, right? I mean, like, pretty late. I think it goes much later than that. I feel like, I don't know what the latest I've gone on when we play there, but there'll be, like, rock artists, like, going. It's not just, like, dance music late at night, either. I think it's to give you, obviously, it's so hot during the daytime in Barcelona, and then also gives you a chance to go do things in town and hit other restaurants and stuff like that.
25:42Daniel Kessler:It's cool. Sticking with touring, and you've got a big tour ahead of you and your album's coming out in August, right? In August, I checked it out. And Rapol, it's like at its prime for me. The sound is there. Oh, on your record. Yeah, I feel very good about this record. Appreciate it. Thank you. Yeah, buddy. Tell me about backstage food when you're on tour. Do you think about it or is it just kind of like back in the 90s you used just food? I think sometimes I hate to say like you, it's less about, it's more like rider stuff, things that you want maybe even for like later. It's like stuff where you want even like next day or whatever.
26:18Daniel Kessler:It's like that kind of stuff. Or sometimes like if you're in places where, you know, you don't know if you're going to be able to find something that like is going to give you the right substance before like a show or whatever. It's like it's going to be boring like hummus and like bread or crackers or things like that. It's like it's pretty boring. So it's more about the things that you want to make you feel comfortable and keep going and stuff like that. So it's less sexy vibes, I think. So it is like hummus and carrots? It's kind of trying. For me, it's maybe a little bit healthier stuff and things like that.
26:50Daniel Kessler:But you know what? It's amazing when there's in-house catering, which you find pretty often in Europe especially. And then it's like, wow. And then someone comes back from catering and you're like, caterers actually great. And then you're like, ooh. And that's always actually a weirdly exciting day. And everyone gets very into that in our band. So you're going to be hitting up in November Copenhagen, Berlin, and Paris in like a week. So that's a pretty aggressive schedule. Do you have time to go have food in those cities? Yeah, you do. And also somewhere like Copenhagen, I go all the time and I love it.
27:19Daniel Kessler:I love to spend time there. Even when we don't have anything to do there, it's one of my favorite places to go. I think it's one of the great places in the summertime when the weather is cooperating and it's sunny. And I love the sea. I'm like a sea guy. I love, like, I'm a beach person in that sense. But to me, I think Copenhagen, when it's, like, one of the great places, because they really know how to celebrate summer, you know, all of a sudden you'll be, like, somewhere amazing outside. You'll hear someone just jumping into the, like, you know, into the water. It's getting one of the canals all over the place.
27:46Daniel Kessler:It's, like, it's great. And then, obviously, the food and wine there is just exceptional. So, yeah, for sure. Like, I don't know if you've ever been to Surte Pizzeria in Copenhagen. That's my favorite pizza. Listen, Daniel, we have this episode maybe, like, two months ago. And I went on the show, and I said this. I said, Sir is the greatest pizzeria in the world. Really? You did? For sure. Clayton, back me up. Like, thumbs up. I wrote that in a text message to someone going to Copenhagen yesterday, my doctor. Yo. He was going, I was like. Go to Sir, yeah. There's one pizza there that I was like, my favorite pizza.
28:17Daniel Kessler:Do you know? The Nettles one? The Rianata one. The Rianata one. It's like this, like, it's almost like a marinara. It's got, well, it's got, like, a little bit of, like, I think it's Pecorino Romano, But it has these like minced anchovy into the tomato sauce. And it has this crazy umami taste. It's really like it's the best pizza ever. We had that. We had incredible pizza there. The naturally leavened dough is incredible. It's amazing. The guy. Giuseppe. Giuseppe is cool as hell. He's great. Chatted with him. And it's like super understated. Like we were there in January, which was awesome, by the way.
28:51Like loved being there in the winter. Yeah, yeah. And it was empty. Like it really didn't have a lot of people going there. I'm like this is like truly the most delicious pizza ever. It's incredible.
29:00Daniel Kessler:I totally agree with you and I think it's great and the first time I went there I ended up going there three times in one day brother it's really nuts because I went there at lunch and then at lunch they don't serve pizza and I'd already heard like good things from a friend of mine so and I was like so we got the something else that they serve the sir pie which is good but it wasn't I wanted the pizza and so I felt like I lost you only have a number of days there and then we already had like a dinner plan too so like I was there with some friends and so but then around 5 o 'clock I was like, well, maybe you can try to go there for a little pre-dinner.
29:33And then we'll go get our, you know, we already had a drink planned. So I'm like, I'll go there and try this pizza.
29:38Daniel Kessler:And the pizza was so good. And then Giuseppe was so nice. And we're all getting along great. And then we went to have the drinks. And then we had this dinner planned. All of a sudden I'm looking at my friend, almost like me, you know, like, what if we just not have dinner at this place, jump back on the bikes, and go back to serve pizza. And then we went back right for the last call and got more pizzas that is the correct way to travel make those pivots make those hard decisions it was great no regrets and it was amazing and like i i love i love that place so much i really think it's the best pizza that's so cool we totally aligned on that like and we obviously live in new york and i love the pizza here i love it's in italy like but i'm it's special pizza i lived in italy for seven years too and i feel like that pizza like it's like it's obviously you can get great italian pizza anywhere you go and it's going to be inexpensive as it should be Like, you know, I think that's like a right there, and I think it's awesome.
30:28Daniel Kessler:And then sometimes maybe a higher level and so forth. But the Surt Pizza for me is my favorite pizza for me. Yeah, right on. He puts a lot of care into that. He does. Man, I should have him on the show now. This is like a good reminder. He's a sweet guy. Let's talk about Bergen Hill. So, very interestingly, I used to live on that block, and it was a restaurant right on Court Street in the first place. Crudos, incredible cocktails. Andrew D 'Ambrosio was a chef. You were a partner with Ravi. Dude, like, I love this. I love that you were part of this restaurant. What's your memory of that? Oh, I spent a lot of time on that restaurant.
31:02Daniel Kessler:There's other bars of Ravi's that I had invested in, but I was, you know, like silent partner kind of thing. It was more like just as an investment. And, you know, he has a lot of like cocktail bars in East Village and so forth. But him and I both lived in that neighborhood. I mean, I lived more in Boreham Hill at the time and he lived in Cobble Hill. So we had like an investment in creating something, you know, and he already had the space. So and I think we actually were eating very similar at the time. And so we both wanted to do this. And looking at that space, it had a very limited sort of like it wasn't a real kitchen.
31:38Daniel Kessler:So you had to really sort of focus about what you want it to be. So I was very involved from like, you know, from the renovation to how it's going to be, what the dish is going to be, what the menu is going to be. even a very old friend of mine did the wine list someone I went to university with and so forth he became like a great sommelier Robert Boer Robert Boer yeah like a legend yeah I've known him since I was 18 years old that's so fun yeah he's a terrific awesome it's crazy yeah he did the wine list for it and I actually met him because my brother was he's a couple years old he was at NYU and he was in the graduate school program for French and Robert Boer was one of his students it was like really nuts but so anyway that's how I got to know Robert but anyway but then yeah and he did like to be a favorite did this put this great wine list together and then all the dishes and then Andrew was like really amazing and a big character and it was really fun and it was great to have it was almost like a sushi restaurant where the chef was in front of you preparing everything for you they had these induction burners so they cooked anything warm there but it was like everything warm was like really great it was a cool kitchen no gas but they were doing incredible work it was very Japanese in that sense it's really I find really like it was very special to me I really enjoyed the time doing it together and then many wonderful meals there myself as well.
32:54But then it's really nice that people say things like what you said about, well, bring it up to me.
32:58Daniel Kessler:Because, I mean, New York, there's so many restaurants that come and go. Completely. And then you forget. Like, I forget. And the fact that people will bring up something about missing Bergen Hill or the fact that it even exists is really nice thing to hear. I hope one day that that magic can be recaptured and you're involved with it because I do think that crudos like thinking about scallops, thinking about raw seafood on like a tostada or any kind of like small bed. It was a very well conceived menu. There was a dish. There was like a carpaccio, an egg carpaccio that Andrew told me was inspired by Barmout in Barcelona.
33:35Daniel Kessler:Were you part of that? No, I wasn't. I think I definitely wasn't and I don't think I've ever eaten I know Bar Mood of course but I've never eaten at Cheap Bar Mood so I think it was just probably Andrew had probably gone there yeah it was more of an Andrew thing delicious yeah but I really I loved the I loved the experience I loved and then we moved it to Astor Place for a little while as well and I dined there as well and I enjoyed it I mean it was obviously a completely different vibe different vibe but it was cool it was a great experience but you know yeah it's like New York restaurant world is obviously cruel.
34:07Daniel Kessler:I mean, that's not actually even like, you know, things just happen sometimes, but it was a great experience for me. Well, you got great reviews. I remember you had some really strong, like Times gave you a pretty nice review. They did, yeah. It was really, it was amazing. It was amazing. And then it's nice, like what you said about it, bringing it up, or friends will bring it up to me and they're not placating me as far as saying what they actually do. And yeah, I think it was doing something at that time that I don't think many people were doing. There's probably more things like that now, you know?
34:34Daniel Kessler:but um yeah cause it opened in like 15 it opened no I think it opened 2013 13 yeah I was like sorry we should have contextualized it before it was like a 13 and Mark from Lucali's like now took it over I think yeah took it over for like I haven't gone there yet but Lil Dom's or Lil something something right yeah or Lil yeah yeah it's like I mean it makes perfect sense now for the neighborhood yeah like it obviously is not what it was like which was like a cool small wine bar restaurant right Right, right, right. It works for Mark. I mean, Mark used to dine at Bergen Hill all the time. I know. He'd see me.
35:07That's how I got to know him a little bit. I'd see him there, too. It was a cool neighborhood spot. Like, I'm glad we could make that memory. So, Daniel, tell me about thinking about future restaurants. Like, you clearly understand restaurants. You're a partner at several. What's the dream for you, restaurant-wise?
35:25Daniel Kessler:The dream for me, like, as far as, like, doing stuff? Yeah, opening a restaurant. I don't know. I don't know if I'm at Cheek. I have so much respect for doing that because it's a lot. You know what I mean? And it's like it takes a lot. It's an endeavor. And it's like it's a huge task. It's a lot of risk. And then to make it right, you know, like I've been with friends who are chefs and so forth. You can see the aggravation when they – and I can relate to this in some way. Like when you listen to a song and it's not quite right, it's like – and you're making a record. It's very painful. You know, it's close, but there's that thing that just doesn't feel right and you have to make it work.
36:02Daniel Kessler:And it's whether you can live with it or not. It's like, that's just one. But I've been with them when they're dining and they're eating a dish that maybe someone in their kitchen made. And it's supposed to be basically as if they made it themselves and it's not right. You can see me like, I'll be right back. It just takes so much. So I don't think short of something really crazy happening, I don't have anything in my plans to do more. Yeah. I love going to them, but I'm not sure if I need to be a part of it. Smart, smart. Let's take all the context aside. I appreciate what you said, because I think you're right.
36:31It's a commitment that you just know what goes into it, and you don't want to do it. But fuck it. Throw all that shit out, and it's concept-wise.
36:38Daniel Kessler:A restaurant you would love to see, maybe you would own, but that you just feel it could work. For a while, I was hoping that they'd open Contra Mar here. But this was a while ago, and I feel like that probably obviously would really work. yeah but that's at the same time you know it's uh that restaurant is such a special restaurant yeah or mexico city it's just like incredible on so many levels that it's it's hard to recreate that that vibe that the way you feel in that room and i know she just opened one in in las vegas which said she's supposed to be great supposed to be great yeah friends of mine have gone yeah so that's like really and i would bet on her any day like yeah you're doing an amazing job uh make it so yeah she's incredible great chef great chef and great like a great human like great like yeah Really soulful person.
37:24Daniel Kessler:But I don't know. It's yeah, I don't know. I don't know if I have like a ready answer, you know, because it's yeah, I don't. I'm not really sure, actually. Yeah, no, you get a certain pizza here and then get a certain pizza here is exactly what I'm talking about. Get certain pizza here. This episode is brought to you by Gooder. A few months back, we were down in Santonia in northern Spain, shooting our founder in the field episode with Becca Milstein from Fish Wife. We were out on a boat with the anchovy fishermen and the sun was absolutely blazing. And the one thing that really saved me was my Goodr sunglasses.
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39:59You sent a message, and it turned out the seller was super chatty, kind of funny, and an avid cyclist. The next thing you know, you're in a cycling crew. Well, a community cycling group. The thing about Facebook, you might find more than what you're looking for. From a browse to a bike ride, this summer, find more on Facebook. Daniel, and this is Taste We Have. Guests are brought to the discerning taste. So to close this interview, here's a little rapid-fire, fast, and furious taste check. Are you ready? Okay. The best fruit.
40:30Daniel Kessler:uh best the best fruit i uh i don't know if i have best fruit i'm pretty into all fruits but i usually lean on like apples and pears probably okay yeah like that the worst vegetable don't if it's a vegetable or not but i really can't stand shiso yeah i just really it's weird i it's almost took me a long time to identify like why i have this aversion to it but i really i guess it's equivalent to why people some people don't like cilantro yeah i love cilantro i don't even think twice about it but interesting shiso i just can't stand what is your typical breakfast I'm not a big breakfast person, but it'd probably be like a yogurt, I guess, if like when the time comes.
41:03Daniel Kessler:Like I don't think I've had – I haven't had breakfast yet today. So when you're – not today. So it is also – Like 1 o 'clock. It is – yeah, 1 o 'clock. Yeah, so I'll probably – lunch will probably be like 1 o 'clock. Lunch will be your first – that makes sense. Yeah. When you're on the road, are you having any breakfast? Like touring? Sorry. Probably like a yogurt or something. Yeah, yogurt. The best dessert? um we already talked about the date shake at superior yeah really i'm very fond of that guy um there's a in spain sometimes if a good tortilla which is like they call like when they're explaining to you it's like their french toast but when they when there's a there's a place called alcano and say san sebastian very renowned for like seafood one of my favorite restaurants in the world yeah they don't sleep on the desserts there and they have like a really great tortilla that's amazing I mean but there's like so many I can go on for days about like I have a real sweet tooth you know Spain does great desserts yeah it does yeah I mean it's like it really does I mean I'm saying like a really great gelato like pistacchio gelato like in Italy or somewhere that's just like it tastes just actually like the pistacchio I think that really makes me very happy yeah a restaurant you wish you could bring back from the dead okay maybe two one would be Lyle's which is a restaurant in London.
42:19Daniel Kessler:I was a really big fan of that restaurant. I loved it. I thought that Chef James was great. I would go there every time I was in London. I thought it was super reasonably priced for the quality of food that it was doing, especially at lunch. I really liked it very much. We've made several records in London the last few years, and I've always gone there. I was very sad when they closed that place, so I definitely miss it and look forward. I'm not sure if he's already announced what he's doing next, but I love that place. And then, weirdly enough, we already talked about Angelica's Kitchen, but as much is when i was like you know 20 i just couldn't i was like not interested in that place it became my go-to restaurant for so long like and you know and probably around the same time we're talking about like bergen hill i'd go there religion i was living in brooklyn i'd go there every day for lunch because it was a great it was always get a table uh all this cool like punk rock vibes all these like new york hardcore luminaires would be in there be like wow it's like i don't know so and so from this hardcore band isn't that the food was great it felt great the desserts like they had this dark chocolate chip vegan cookie that was like so delicious oh yeah favorite cookie ever and i was deeply saddened when they when they closed that place i really was like heartbroken because it was just i would just go there like every day for lunch like repetitive without thinking and then so i'd bring that back oh and then i'd bring back suen for the one on prince and yeah because i'd go after angelica's clothes i would go to suen religious that was your everyday suen i know some people who do suen like and they're all multiple times a week yeah and also like cool like really cool laid-back vibe and a historic place like that been there since I don't even know when, but those are great stories.
43:43Daniel Kessler:And I know like, you know, just whatever, like New York luminaries. But it was also just like no bullshit and just kind of like get it done. And I really love that. And I think New York needs those places. I feel like your connection to Altro makes sense because Altro Paradiso has kind of like curated that kind of crowd and has those kinds of regulars. It does. Yeah. And I think it's important, I think, in New York to have that. And it's like, yeah, it's also I mean, the thing just, you know, with Altro, I think is special. So it's really hard to become – it's been 10 years that places exist, and it's very difficult to become like now you're part of like this established and kind of like a reliable place to go to because New York is cruel that way in the restaurant world.
44:20Daniel Kessler:Places come and go and so forth, and then they disappear, and you don't even think about them, which is crazy. You're like, oh, yeah, I used to go there all the time, and now I forgot about it because I've been traveling. I come back. It's gone. So the fact that they've actually – they have that now. It's a great accomplishment. When you're craving fast food, where are you going? I mean, I don't know if I, it's like my version of something fast, maybe, because I don't want to call it, but I'll lean into like a casunoy or something like that, you know, like, or something like that. If I'm like, because it's, yes, I love calling that, that is fast food.
44:49You know, it's like fast, but it's not fast food,
44:52Daniel Kessler:but I'll, it's not, again, I wouldn't call this fast food, but like, it's delicious and, you know, inexpensive, but what, Los Mariscos in Chelsea. Totally. Like, right by the loading, like right in the, yeah, You don't have to go into Chelsea Market and stuff. You can join the house. I think that place, I love those fish tacos. It's a good fish taco. It's a good on-the-go. It's inexpensive. It's really tasty and legit. That's a great call. I haven't talked about it on the show. That Marisco is in the Chelsea Market kind of hidden in the middle of the block is great. Yeah. Love that spot. Your favorite city in the world to visit for food.
45:25I know it's a hard question to answer, but I feel like you have it.
45:29Daniel Kessler:I mean, it's so boring, but obviously Tokyo is just really amazing. I just got back from there recently. Okay. There's always so much of – it's great on – obviously, there's things like our Japanese that are top everything. Yeah. Like an incredible soba there every day. But then we're talking about pizza, like amazing pizzas there. Amazing – I've had the best – I grew up in France. I lived there from the age of 5 to 11. The best baguette I've ever had in my life is some random organic bakery I just happened to stop in and get a piece of baguette. And it was easily the best piece of bread I've had in my life.
46:03Daniel Kessler:You know what I mean? It's like that. So I feel like that place really, you know, Tokyo really holds it down. When you play Tokyo as a band, do you like build in extra days just to chill? I do. We're actually not very well known in Japan. You know, we have places. So it's like kind of, so I will just like, you know, I will definitely, I'll find an excuse to want us to play there. Yeah, but this will be like a 500 room because it's like you're not having it. Oh, yeah, yeah. And then hopefully it'll be like the last stop on a tour. There you go. The first stop, you know, one or the other. It was a couple of years ago we did that.
46:33Daniel Kessler:We played in Tokyo and I went right, I got there like a week in advance. You just had to get the time change. I mean, obviously you had to make the time change. Exactly. Yeah. Are there any cities that you're really known in that like maybe would surprise us and that has great food? You know, Mexico City is a place that we have like a really wonderful connection to, like wonderful fans there. And obviously just one of the great food cities of the world. It's a good one. I couldn't ask for anything more. And that's like, to me, like that, whenever we do that, we actually, you know. And I've spent so much time there.
47:07Daniel Kessler:I know it really well. I have, like, really great longtime friends there. And so it's like, it's fun to check out new spots. But it's fun to go to the places that you're like, this is like home away from home. So, yeah. It's nice. Yeah. Last one, your favorite sandwich. Hard one. I would, are we talking about, like, places or a type of sandwich? I think, up for your interpretation, could pair the two together. Okay. I mean, I would say there's a place in Syracuse in Sicily, Borderi something. I can't remember, though. I should have thought about this. But anyway, but it's actually like just like a little delicatessen kind of thing.
47:45And they have their own farm.
47:48Daniel Kessler:And so, like, all the cheeses come from their actual own farm. And it's strange, but, like, I just get this vegetarian sandwich with cheese. And, like, and it's just, like, exceptional. It's renowned. Like, they'll just, and they're, like, very kind of, like, they'll put on a little bit of a show when they do it. and everything like that. But it delivers. It's really like, it's just like incredible. I don't even know. It's just, it's like what, like I've had things with this combination before, but not delivering the sort of satisfaction. With those products. I mean, it's obviously. It's great.
48:13Daniel Kessler:I mean, even at the Spurity Burger though, I love like their collard green sandwich. Yeah. They're incredible. Like Brooks is amazing or whoever is amazing with the focaccia there, like making the focaccias. Dude, if you can get the focaccia there, it's such a must order. It's so legit. So legit. It's like such a legit. The first time like I was, I was at the old superiority burger on ninth street and I was there for something else. And all of a sudden he was like, he was when he was just testing things and he was like, here, taste this. And he gave me a piece of this focaccia. And I was, again, I lived in Italy for all these years.
48:38Daniel Kessler:So I was like, pretty going to be like, it makes you a bit of a snob about this kind of stuff. And then you eat this and you're like, this is way better than any focaccia I've had over there ever. And it was really like, it was just so good. And then you find it, you know, and then it became a thing there, like on, uh, you do focaccia, I think on Fridays at the Old Spurity Burger, and then you just get whatever combination, and you get a tomato one and then whatever flavor of the day. Yeah, it's incredible. So I feel like that sandwich, and that's a unique combination, but super satisfying. So those two are pretty good ones.
49:03Great. Well, this has been a lot of fun catching up, talking about the 90s, talking about touring. Thank you so much for joining This Is Taste.
49:11Daniel Kessler:Thanks for having me. It's been a pleasure.
49:17This is Taste is hosted and produced by Eliza Abarbanal and me, Matt Rodbar. The show is edited by lead producer Clayton Gumbert and supervised by Pat Stango, director of media production and development at Penguin Random House. Thanks to Shalia Harris and the production team at Penguin Random House. Theme music by Steve Rydell. Episode portraits by Louise Zergon Pomeroy. Logo design by Ellie Skirzat and Ian Dingham. Visit Taste Online at tastecooking.com and make sure to subscribe to our newsletter to keep updated on all cool things in the world of taste.
From the publisher
Daniel Kessler is a guitarist and founding member of Interpol, one of New York’s defining bands. He also helped build Bergen Hill—a beloved Carroll Gardens crudo bar he conceived from scratch with Ravi DeRossi—and quietly became a fixture of the city’s cocktail and natural wine scene. On the eve of Interpol’s eighth album, This Mirror Weighs a Ton, Kessler joins us to talk about what turned a late-night bar regular into a serious eater, eating between Barcelona and the East Village, and remembering the early 2000s NYC food scene.
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