831: Maria Geyman Thinks Anyone Can Be a Tea Person

11:11Matt Rodriguez:My last thing is I wanted to give a little update on Sawtelle, which is a couple block street in West LA that has long been home to the Japanese community on the West Side and has become kind of like a cool intersection of like different Asian small businesses and and bigger chain businesses in LA today. So I had a couple like fun things that I did over there with my like childhood best friend, shout out to Tiana. We got lunch at Kura revolving sushi bar, which is a conveyor belt sushi place, which actually I don't think I've been to one since I was a child, but it's really fun. And I think the sushi is actually really good quality.

11:48Matt Rodriguez:I saw some eater write-ups about it when we were checking it out. We just saw that it was busy and that they had a robot server and that was kind of of interest to us. Also right upstairs in this strip mall, they have a Korean photo booth, which if anyone listening has not been to a Korean photo booth place before, highly recommend. This is like the best quality photo booth images you're ever going to take, in my opinion. The lighting is always very flattering and they have fun, different kind of gimmicky photo booths. So you can take photos in like a fake elevator, for example, or a fake laundromat.

12:19Matt Rodriguez:But we just went for like a more classic baby blue backdrop. But the photos we took were really cute and kind of a fun memory. And then after that, I really wanted to go to Odd One Out, which is the Taiwanese American boba chain that I've talked about on the show before. They happen to have the taste shout out on their sandwich board out in front, which I noticed mid-sip of boba and almost choked on my boba. But I thought that was very sweet. And I actually went two days in a row. So the first time I got my beloved oolong pomelo drink, which has beautiful kind of pieces of pomelo pulp in the drink.

12:54Matt Rodriguez:So refreshing. And then the next time I got this corn matcha special summer drink that they were doing because I saw it the first day after I had already ordered my go to drink.

13:03Maria Geyman:Instant jealousy.

13:04Matt Rodriguez:Yeah, exactly. And so I went back for it. And I did really like this. It has like I don't know if it's corn juice or if they're infusing milk with the corn, but it has, you know, a really pronounced corn flavor.

13:15Maria Geyman:But it's infusing the milk with the corn.

13:18Matt Rodriguez:And it goes really well with the matcha. I would say it's more of like a thicker, dessertier drink. I got them both at 25 percent, like less sugar level, which is my kind of go to level. And maybe just because the corn has that inherent sweetness and also more body to it. Like it wasn't quite as refreshing as the oolong pomelo drink, but it had, you know, really fun kind of summer flavor. And then one more spot that I really liked on Sautel that was new was there's a new record store called We Share Records that has a specialty focus on Japanese city pop. And the guy who owns it is this really cool DJ who, when I walked in, was just, you know, standing in the shop, dancing, like mixing his records, giving recommendations to people.

13:58Matt Rodriguez:So I think if anyone is visiting L.A. or they live in L.A. and they want to have a kind of like walking, snacking sort of afternoon, always a fun time on Sautel.

14:07Maria Geyman:What a robust, impressive tour of modern Sawtelle. I mean, the City Pop record store. That is for my heart. I mean, I love that. I used to go to Kiriko on Sawtelle quite a bit. I love Sawtelle. It's really just one of my favorite neighborhoods in all of L.A. to visit.

14:24Matt Rodriguez:Yeah. And, you know, there's so many places I didn't mention, obviously, the Sujita Tatsu, like ramen of it all, the Korean restaurants that are open there. Soul House of Tofu is my family spot growing up. Blockhead Shaved Ice. You know, there's always a lot going on. These were kind of my most recent hits.

14:41Maria Geyman:The Sujita lines back 15 years ago, like it was like the place for the line for ramen.

14:48Matt Rodriguez:Yeah, I think I'm dating myself with my references because all the things I just said were, you know, really cool. Yeah, probably 15 years ago when I was last living there. But that's kind of the I don't know. It's always sad to see places that you like clothes, but it is interesting to watch neighborhoods evolve and new places come in that kind of extend the experience in a different way.

15:09Maria Geyman:I just love walking around Sartell, too. It's very walkable, I feel for me.

15:13Matt Rodriguez:Yeah. You know, some parts of L.A. I think are easier to hit a bunch of destinations than others. And that is a nice thing is that you can park and, you know, do a bunch of things at once. And, you know, I know the Korean photo booth seems like a random addition, but I'm very passionate about these. And I think they're not enough in New York for some reason. So I like to see them in L.A. Matt, what's your last thing?

15:32Maria Geyman:My last thing is I made it to Herman's, which is the place that I've been looking at for a while. And I really had a terrific meal. I'm just kind of blown away by this meal. A lot to say about this place. It's from Last Word Hospitality. folks behind found oyster which i also really like also queen street raw bar and other restaurants and this restaurant opened in december 2025 um in this northeast la neighborhood of herman it's kind of between south pasadena and highland park it's from chef david colander and um it has a little bit of backstory so they were gonna open a restaurant um up in malibu um called shea renee It unfortunately was just about to open and the Palisades fire took it and it was burned to the ground.

16:22Maria Geyman:Tough for the restaurant group. I think that they quickly pivoted and worked on this new concept. But there is a burger, the Ode to Shea cheeseburger, which was originally going to be on that menu. So there's like a little bit of backstory there. But really this restaurant, I think the infatuation, they called it Hipster Houston's. Which I think is an interesting framing for a restaurant. I think it's a really well put statement because I think that there are very much comforting dishes here that you'd find at Houston's. Very consistent cooking. And really it starts with a loaded potato fritters, which essentially is like a pomme dauphin with this cream cheese cloud atop it and bacon chives and Parmesan.

17:08Maria Geyman:It's like a really beautiful, like hearty appetizer course. On the flip side, there was a Hokkaido scallop agua chile with melon, sun gold tomato, and serrano, which was beautiful and delicious at the same time. There was, I was there in August, so I had a stone fruit and tomato salad with fried shallots, mint basil, and nakcham, which is so delicious. I mean, those peaches, did you have peaches when you were out there at all?

17:35Matt Rodriguez:I did at the farmer's market. Well, okay, I had this specific varietal of nectarine called mango nectarine. Yeah, I've seen those. Very, very good. However, I bought a couple to bring back home, and I think the season just shifted because the ones I brought back home were not nearly as good, and it was sad. But I'm glad that you had peaches in such interesting context, I'm sure.

17:54Maria Geyman:Great salad and just like perfect peach season dish. I mean, really beautiful. Had a whole fried branzino with colabri and chili and roasted tomatoes. I just think every dish time after time, there was a baked Alaska at the end. I just really like the cooking here. I think it's really on point. It's like the execution is what I expect from found oyster. And I just think it's a cool dining room. I mean, it's a place I would go back to. I really have very few notes about this meal. I was kind of blown away by it.

18:26Matt Rodriguez:Well, I'm glad that we both seemed to eat so well when we were in L.A.

18:30Maria Geyman:We did. I mean, we didn't even see each other, but this is the reason we divided and conquered and have this great report from L.A.

18:36Matt Rodriguez:Yeah, and I didn't even talk about my in-and-out lunch that I had. by myself.

18:42Maria Geyman:I mean, that's a true Cali move, California.

18:45Matt Rodriguez:If you're dropping someone off at LAX, which I was doing, it was right there. It was looking at me. I was looking at it. And you know what? That chocolate strawberry milkshake, it does hit.

18:55Maria Geyman:That's the guy. And do you have animal style or just regular?

18:57Matt Rodriguez:Just regular. I think like animal style is fun, but for lunch, for me, maybe not. Too much. That's the thing about LA. There's always another place to go eat at.

19:08Maria Geyman:Absolutely. I feel like we'll probably be back there this year. I hope so. Eliza, thanks for sharing your three things.

19:14Matt Rodriguez:You too.

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21:37Matt Rodriguez:This episode is brought to you by Facebook. So you were scrolling on Marketplace, and there it was, the bike you'd been searching for. You sent a message, and it turned out the seller was super chatty, kind of funny, and an avid cyclist. The next thing you know, you're in a cycling crew. Well, a community cycling group. The thing about Facebook, you might find more than what you're looking for. From a browse to a bike ride, this summer, find more on Facebook. Maria Gaiman, this is Tace. Thank you for coming on the podcast. Thanks for having me. Thank you for coming on the show and bringing tea with you.

22:15Matt Rodriguez:It's so fitting. Of course. Will you tell us about what we're drinking right now?

22:19Aliza Kellerman:So we're drinking natal iced tea. I'm, as you can see, super pregnant. And like the past month or so, I have this like half gallon jar at home that I just like make every night and drink the whole thing the next day. So I brought you some of my stash for today.

22:39Matt Rodriguez:I'm not pregnant, but I'm feeling very replenished and hydrated by drinking the nettle tea. So I'm grateful for it.

22:46Aliza Kellerman:Yeah, I've been like bringing it on the subway, just like drinking so much of it at home. So that's what we're drinking. Can you tell me about what Nettle does and why is it so good for you? So Nettle is like one of those teas that's super safe in pregnancy. So you can drink it like the whole time before and after. And it is a uterine tonic. So it like is really good for women in all different stages of life. but it's also like it's one of those herbs that people use for a lot of different reasons like you can use it for allergies like it has a ton of vitamins and minerals so it's sort of like and it's it's growing now so it's like a really nice seasonal like late spring early summer tea yeah

23:37Matt Rodriguez:it totally is and it's such a fitting thing to be drinking for our tea conversation today and I'm really excited to talk to you about your new book and your tea business. But before we get into all of that, I want to know how you experienced tea growing up and what kind of draws you to tea.

23:54Aliza Kellerman:So my family's from Ukraine. I was born in Kiev. And when my family immigrated here, they like sent all of their teaware, which is literally like over a dozen tea sets with like, I don't even know like how they executed that. But I grew up around like all this really beautiful teaware and just like drinking tea constantly every day all day like just like black tea with lemon or milk and honey or just black but so it was like a very kind of normal part of my upbringing just like really cute teaware and like black tea and then it's like breakfast some point in the afternoon dinner and like occasionally another time in addition to that especially Especially I spent a lot of time with my grandparents growing up.

24:39So like especially with them that it was just like an everyday kind of occurrence, I would say.

24:46Matt Rodriguez:Yeah, I think it's so interesting to look back on the things that we just accepted as as normal or a part of life as children. And then as an adult think, oh, that was actually really special that this ritual was kind of a part of my life. Totally. And then how did you kind of develop more of a professional interest in tea?

25:05Aliza Kellerman:so I went to grad school for naturopathic medicine we were talking about Portland Oregon earlier that's why I lived in Portland and there's not so basically a big part of the curriculum was studying herbs and medicinal uses of herbs and I had brought some of my tea wear from the east coast with me just and like I'm always picking up like cups and teapots and stuff that. And so I found myself kind of adapting this ritual of just drinking black tea all the time with this tea word that I loved, but like pulling in different herbs that I was either tasting for the first time or just like, even if it wasn't for the first time, just like becoming interested in and learning about in different ways.

25:47Aliza Kellerman:And so I kind of created this, like, I sort of like adapted the ritual and so then when I moved back to New York to do my residency and like eventually start my naturopathic practice I started blending like medicinal teas for my patients and just like you like making them and then and then the business started because I like packaged it and it like it just kind of like took the packaging just kind of worked and it sort of took off right so that's sort of how it happened if that makes sense yeah as a naturopathic doctor and then as

26:27Matt Rodriguez:someone who grew up drinking a lot of black tea like do you distinguish between like herbal tea versus like i don't even know what to call it like more it's called a tisane tisane that's like what

26:38Aliza Kellerman:herbal tea is called so like technically there's a difference like yes there's a difference i think like honestly personally and also with masha tea like i don't actually really distinguish them like i just call everything tea because that's been my experience and so i think also like i don't i feel like my approach is is not that of a more traditional herbalist like i kind of like right now i'm drinking nettle tea partially because i'm pregnant but in general i kind of just drink what I like and what tastes good versus being like, oh, my head hurts. So I'm going to have this. Like, it's a lot more like this is what I'm into right now.

27:18And that's like more of how I think

27:21Aliza Kellerman:about tea. And that's like my approach with everything I do. So much of that even fully answers the question.

27:29Matt Rodriguez:But no, I think it makes sense in terms of like, maybe you're not being so hard in terms of I can only call this one thing or I can only use this in a certain kind of way. There's room for it to kind of ebb and flow and have nuance.

27:41Aliza Kellerman:Yes. I have like a very kind of loose relationship with it. And it's like not rigid. Like I feel like it's a food. It's like it's like there's a health aspect to it. But it's also just something that I genuinely enjoy. And that's like where it comes. That's where my relationship with it comes from.

27:58Matt Rodriguez:Yeah, totally. I think maybe someone listening would be familiar with medicinal tea in terms of your stomach is upset. So you're having a ginger tea or you're drinking chamomile. to kind of wind down at the end of the night. But can you speak to maybe like the kinds of tea blends that you're making in that work or the way that tea can kind of be used to support health?

28:17Aliza Kellerman:Yeah. So I think there's in herbalism, there's like different categories of herbs that have certain functions. And so like a really kind of easy example is nerve vines, which are herbs that kind of work on your nervous system. So like, for example, for New Yorkers, people who are just generally like fast and like maybe a little stressed, it's like herbs that you might be familiar with that would fall into that category would be like chamomile or lemon balm, things that are just like and lavender, like things that are like kind of calming and lovely. And so if I'm making like I like with Masha, one of the first teas I ever developed is called Calm Tea and it's just chamomile, lemon balm and calendula.

29:01Aliza Kellerman:And like the calendula isn't even really a nervine. It's just really pretty. It's like a bright yellow flower. So I'm like, oh, this is like nice to touch. Like I feel like when I make blends, I also think about that. Like what is pretty, what smells good, what just like is beautiful. Right. Not necessarily like what is the biochemical function of this?

29:20Matt Rodriguez:Because it's not just the drinking of the tea, but also the ritual of making and consuming the tea.

29:25Aliza Kellerman:Yeah, it's not like Advil, you know, it's like it's something that you're doing as like a lifestyle thing. That would be an example of like calming teas. But then also for like to settle your belly, like you said, ginger. And then there's also herbs like fennel and licorice. And so and like one point there is like ginger is an herb that tends to be really heating versus licorice is quite cooling. And so just like understanding your own constitution, like even in a simple way, like do you tend to run hot or cold? So like for me, I love licorice tea because it like cools me down. So like I would never for myself really make a blend with ginger, like very rarely, just because it's like not a good constitutional fit versus like licorice is.

30:10And so so like there's like different ways to think about about herbs and teas from that perspective as well, if that makes sense.

30:19Matt Rodriguez:Totally. And maybe the more kind of traditional interpretation of tea, the black tea, green tea, matcha of it all, when you are making those for yourself, is that more of like a flavor, like a caffeine side? Or do you also kind of think of it in terms of like a functional medicinal beverage?

30:39Aliza Kellerman:so both I mean I love black tea I drink just like because it's what my family drinks like I drink a lot of it and so I'm someone who if I'm like winding down at night will actually have like black tea with like milk and honey like that's so comforting for me and so you're hardcore but like that's like for I don't know I think first of all the caffeine doesn't affect me so there's that but like I don't know I think if something is comforting as a ritual it like doesn't matter what the actual herb is in a way it's just like for and that's that's for me personally it's kind of like a bigger question too because there's so like with green tea for example there's like so many cultural traditions where green tea that green tea is a part of and like growing up in an eastern european family like we didn't drink green tea really and like after having traveled to different countries in Asia and just like also studying tea culture, like I kind of feel like I came to green tea more as an adult.

31:37And so if I'm, if I like get

31:40Aliza Kellerman:something really special to share with, with friends, like a little, like my, it's like a little bit different. It isn't part of like an everyday thing for me.

31:48Matt Rodriguez:Right. I like thinking about personal practice versus kind of social tea ritual and medicinal and all the kind of ways that tea can kind of fit into your life. And I see that as a big theme in this book that you've come out with. And I'm curious if you could tell me about what inspired you to make with tea. The whole title is With Tea, Culture, Accoutrement, and Rituals.

32:09Aliza Kellerman:So I have been keeping a journal since I was in like third grade. So I'm just always like writing about what's going on ever since I was a child. And so, and I didn't start writing as part of like my professional life until a few years ago and a lot of that writing like I started doing these tea lovers guides for Vogue like a lot of my writing was actually about tea which happened kind of randomly it was just like what I was up to with the tea company and so it sort of made sense to write about it because I was writing anyways right um and I've always wanted to write a book and have and so it kind of just came together like yeah and the concept came about over the years because I was like I'm not like a food person in that I'm like obsessed with like specific recipes or like I don't like following recipes I don't I don't know like I feel like I'm not necessarily coming to the book from like a cookbook lens so I didn't want it to be like a I didn't want it to be a recipe book, but I was like, oh, there should be recipes in this.

33:19Aliza Kellerman:And then I had done a bunch of like travel writing already about tea. So it was like, this makes sense to like integrate into here. And then there's just sort of like, it's very broad. Like all of these things that I've been thinking about over the past few years kind of came together with this book. Like there's like a small section on tea and personal style. I was just kind of like everything that's like lifestyle related that I can like see through the lens of tea I'm going to put in this book. And then also, obviously, there's like a very strong visual element to it, because for me, that's a big part of tea culture, like is the visual element and like the sense, like not just visual, but like the sensory element of like the sounds, the smells, the taste.

34:05Aliza Kellerman:Like it's yeah, it's I think tea is really interesting because it's not really a food like it doesn't have doesn't like give you sustenance. And it's also not purely for hydration, like caffeine's dehydrating. So it's just sort of like sits in this sort of weird place where it's like kind of in the food world and it's like kind of a wellness thing, but like not necessarily. And there's also like this like element of artisanship and craft when it comes to teaware. So and also like so many cultures around the world have tea, like different types of tea and tea practices. So it's just like this very broad thing that I think in the U.S.

34:50Aliza Kellerman:isn't it doesn't like there isn't as much of a language for it. And I think like New York City is so interesting because tea culture here, a lot of it is like all about different immigrant communities, like bringing their own tea practices here, which is like what I had with my grandparents here. And so I think it's like New York is a really interesting like microcosm for tea culture.

35:13Matt Rodriguez:Yeah, totally.

35:14Aliza Kellerman:So that was also like, that was actually the basis of the book. And then it kind of went a different direction. Like it's not really a New York City book anymore. But when it started, I was like, this is what it's going to, that was kind of the idea that I had.

35:26Matt Rodriguez:Yeah. I think of it as like a book for a curious tea person. It's talking about these, you know, deep traditions around the world and all of the different brewing techniques and the myths and legends. And then there are the recipes. It's like a almost like a cultural encyclopedia in some way.

35:46Aliza Kellerman:Yeah. And then the the last part, there's also like a tea and health section, which is like kind of like an herbal compendium. There's like and it's the herbs that I use in the tea company. So just ones that I'm like familiar with. And like there so it's like there's like a section on tea and beauty. There's also like I think because I basically stopped my naturopathic practice. that was like my expression of that of just like here's like here's just some stuff that might be helpful for you at home when it comes to tea yeah I'm curious how having Masha Tea

36:20Matt Rodriguez:as a company and seeing the kinds of products that people are maybe interested in or asking for like did that inform your perspective when making this book at all absolutely like I feel like one

36:32Aliza Kellerman:thing that I learned have learned through Masha um and also like all of the teas that I pick that like we sell are just things that I like or it's like this is an interesting herb that or like this I like this farm like it's it's very much just like based on my personal taste and like I'm really interested in things that are beautiful and like I notice that with Masha tea that's kind of like what people are attracted to even like with packaging they're like I think like that's the response is like oh this is beautiful and like that's the first thing that people notice and so with the book but then there's also like depth behind it of like I actually know a lot about what these herbs do even though like I'm not like throwing that in your face it's just kind of like an under it's just sort of like behind the scenes and so that's sort of the thing with the book too is like I the photographer and painter that I worked with I'm like huge fans of their work and I'm like whatever they create is going to be so beautiful and so like that element I feel like translates from the tea company and then it's like I can kind of do the behind the scenes like here is like the meat of the matter with the writing but it's like but I think people really respond to beauty and also I don't know I feel like that's like an unpopular opinion or something like that but it's just but I think that like that's a very strong part of tea culture around the world um and here too and so it's kind of like that I think that's sort of one of the main elements of crossover

38:06Matt Rodriguez:between the brand and the book yeah I I totally noticed that when I was reading the book I I wrote some notes to myself about I called them like freaky little illustrations I mean in the most complimentary possible way but they're kind of like these unusual figures that are like interacting with the book what was the inspiration there they're moody like the publisher even at first

38:28Aliza Kellerman:when they saw them they're like these are like really moody and I was like it's gonna be okay like that so um Alice Wace did all of the watercolor paintings she is a fine jewelry designer and I am obsessed with her work like everything that she makes I'm just like this is it's just so beautiful and like sculptural and so and I knew that she also she was a friend of mine I knew that she also was a painter and so when I got the book deal she was like the first person that I called I was like can you please please do the paintings for this and I kind of just told her to do whatever she wanted I was just like I completely trust you like whatever you want to do go for it so those are completely her that's all her like I kind of gave her I told her what colors I liked in general and like sent her some concepts and excerpts the only thing that I specifically asked her for was like the botanical illustrations at the end but otherwise like all of those scenes of like the girls in the bath drinking tea like they're like also kind of sexy that's just like that's her that had I wasn't like you should paint this like it was just right Do whatever you want.

39:41Matt Rodriguez:It's such a nice kind of maybe visual signifier that this is a book that's interested in doing things a little bit differently. And then the photos are so beautiful. And I think a lot of them are maybe featuring elements of your own collection of teaware and accessories.

39:54Aliza Kellerman:Is that right? Yes, mostly. So Fujio Amoro is the photographer. He does mostly like fashion photography. and I had spoken to a couple of food photographers before and I was just like this isn't a cookbook like we don't need to photograph it that way and and like similarly to Alice with Fujio I was like I just felt like he could bring a perspective that I didn't totally have and that's kind of what I wanted from the visual elements on both sides um which he did like the photos would have looked completely different if he wasn't there. The collection is mostly mine. We borrowed a few pieces. Can you tell me about the piece that's on the cover?

40:38Matt Rodriguez:It's the most beautiful teacup.

40:40Aliza Kellerman:Yeah. So I was in Milan last summer and there I go to like a little, there's like this antique store that I like to go to there. And this past time, I just like got so much, I got so many pieces like that so the cover is uh the teacup has a little like gold dove on the inside so they wouldn't fit in my suitcase so i just went to dhl and was like just ship this for me which was like kind of a mistake because a lot broke yeah on the way back because the guy it was like closing and the guy i think probably just got tired of wrapping and just like so when they arrived a bunch of the pieces were broken so um Miwa Neishi she's a ceramic artist she also does Kintsugi I met her through the Noguchi Museum because I've like they've been like a longtime partner of mine like when they still had their cafe open I did teas for them with Masha and like I'll often do like little events and and I also one of my favorite places in New York but so I gave her a lot of the broken ceramics and she fixed them with kintsuki which is like using basically like gold to put ceramics back together and so you still get the same shape but then there's these beautiful lines um so she fixed that was one of the pieces that she fixed and the blue behind it is actually a denim floor pillow that i've had for years so we like the cover was supposed to be one of alice's illustrations it was like a pattern and it's actually now the end papers like it almost looks like the cover of the julia child book um the art of french art of french cooking yeah exactly um but then i was like this looks too much like this julia child book right and so and then when we took that photo fuji and i were both like this is the cover photo and there's no tea in the cup

42:34Matt Rodriguez:right no there's no tea in the cup was that a conversation or no I don't remember now I think

42:41Aliza Kellerman:that we didn't even consider putting tea in the cup for some reason well it would kind of ruin the kind of visual effect of seeing the kitsungi and it'd have to be a very light colored tea I would imagine yes which is which exists but yeah the I think we just like imagined I just like imagined that photo for some reason and yeah I think you wouldn't necessarily see the gold yeah

43:01Matt Rodriguez:Yeah. Well, I love hearing this story because I didn't even realize that it had been broken in transit and then kind of re-put back together again. But I think there is probably a nice lesson there somewhere. Or at least I have had things break that I've tried to bring back before and felt very sad about it. So it's nice to know that I should be thinking about doing kitsungi with them.

43:19Aliza Kellerman:Yeah. I mean, some of the pieces were too broken and then a lot of them weren't. And it was like and also that same when I got all those pieces, my father in law had given us like this milk jug that was his grandmother's. Like, you know, for milk for tea, it wasn't I don't know what the word is. I guess it's a jug like a tiny pitcher.

43:43Matt Rodriguez:Sure. I don't know the perfect word for that. Yeah.

43:45Aliza Kellerman:So I obviously immediately broke it. And it was like, oh, my God. And then so she also fixed that. And that that is in a couple of the of the shots as well.

43:55Matt Rodriguez:That's so interesting. I love hearing about, you know, sourcing these kinds of tea accessories. I think traveling with an interest in tea probably gives you a really interesting lens on where to go or what to look for. And I'm curious if there are any places you especially have enjoyed going to to travel in kind of a tea context.

44:14Aliza Kellerman:so i think like i going back to milan honestly it's just i've i've found some of my favorite pieces there which like you think like italy is like more of a coffee country but first of all there's obviously crossover between like the material like between the cups even and the materials but i've found some really beautiful pieces there and also like then i find things that are kind of unexpected. Like, for example, I found this olive oil holder that I at first thought was a tea kettle because it was shaped like one. And so then just like learning like, oh, this isn't actually a tea thing, even though it kind of looks like it.

44:55So like, I love Italy.

44:58Aliza Kellerman:I think it's a great place. And also like there is a really strong herbal tea culture there because so many beautiful herbs grow in the Mediterranean. And I've sourced chamomile from there. So like I think for like and I love Junori and like vintage Junori. So that is has been really interesting for me in terms of like modern ceramics and tea like going to Japan is so exciting. And like and I source matcha and like green teas and black tea from a couple of farms in Japan. And so doing those farm visits was like just so special. and then also yeah like just like just finding ceramics and then and then also like I do really look for tea where everywhere like I'll go upstate for a weekend and then be like oh I and like find like a cool teapot or something so it's just it's kind of like just been my lens of travel for the

45:54Matt Rodriguez:past like decade yeah yeah when you go to on the kind of farm visits for the tea that you're sourcing for Masha, what does that experience kind of teach you or help you do with the business?

46:10Aliza Kellerman:So, and I should probably share more about those visits, but like, first of all, it's really interesting to meet farmers. Like, it's just like, it's a, it's a beautiful way to live. And I think Like, you know, now, like, when I get kilograms of hojicha from, like, this farm that's, like, overlooking Mount Fuji, I'm like, okay, here's the story of, like, the people who grew this. And also, like, I can visualize the tea field. So it's, like, it just adds a layer of depth to it. I think, like, that's also true. Because, like, with Masha Tea, I focus a lot on herbs. And, like, I try to source those in the U.S.

46:53So like I work with farms in Vermont, Oregon, Washington, like in Washington state.

47:00Aliza Kellerman:I have this like group that wild harvests juniper and red cedar and wild roses. And it's like so special. And I haven't actually visited them, but I used to live in the Pacific Northwest. So I'm like, I see, I know where this is coming from. And like, you know, I used to source mints from this like small farm on the North Fork of Long Island. So I think it's just like everything is so relationship based. And I think that, you know, as I think about like growing my brand, I also am looking at the advantages of still being a pretty small brand. And like one of those advantages is being able to work with really small farms.

47:37Aliza Kellerman:That becomes difficult, more difficult with. Right.

47:41Matt Rodriguez:When you have like a really big production capacity that you need to source.

47:45Aliza Kellerman:Yeah.

47:45Matt Rodriguez:That makes a lot of sense. And hearing you talk about collecting all of these different ways of making tea, I'm wondering about how you prefer to make tea at home. Do you have a specific method that you use or does it depend on the kind of tea that you're making?

48:00Aliza Kellerman:so for the most part i'm like a very kind of like almost like haphazard person like for the book i i did like actually measure and like give people specific recipes because i know that some people need that or want that but like you have the ratio and the water temperature and those things exactly but like for myself when i'm making tea i kind of just like pour it in to a teapot and pour hot water over it. And it's like as simple as that. So I have my favorite teapots, which I use all the time. And I kind of just pick one based on how many people it's for. Like if it's just for me or if there's like two or three of us or if I'm like hosting a party, I just kind of like pick the appropriate size teapot and just kind of throw herbs or tea in there and then pour hot water over.

48:49Aliza Kellerman:So the other so that's like what's usually going on in the summer. I cold brew a lot. like I was saying with the nettle, which is honestly so easy because you just pour, you just like put room temperature water over herbs and then stick it in the fridge and drain it and then like strain it the next day. So that's what I've been doing a lot recently. And then another style of tea brewing that I have the recipe for in the book, which I haven't actually really seen anybody do outside of my family. So in Russian, the word for it is zavarka, which is like, it's, and it's, I really only do this with black tea, actually, but it's basically just creating a concentrate.

49:30Aliza Kellerman:So, like, you put more black tea, like, double the amount of black tea leaves in with hot water, and then it creates this black tea concentrate, which then, like, if you're serving a lot of people tea, you can just pour, like, a tiny amount in and top it off with hot water. So it, like, dilutes it.

49:47Matt Rodriguez:Yeah.

49:50Aliza Kellerman:And I think that's, like, super convenient for hosting. and also it's like if you want to drink it throughout my grandma would make that sometimes and then we would just like use it for the whole day so it's like she's already prepared the tea and then all you have to do after like the morning brew is just like keep making hot water and then you like don't have to deal with and then at the end of the day you like wash the teapot

50:10Matt Rodriguez:and take the leaps out oh that's a really smart way to do it yeah i like these kinds of guidelines and then you do have recipes for foods of things to eat with tea in the book as well what kinds of recipes did you want to include?

50:22Aliza Kellerman:So there's one chapter on food and it's called Babush Karita's desserts to pair with tea. So my grandmother used to bake a lot and she had like these core recipes that she would repeat. And there was like, I think there's five of them in the book. And those are like the main ones that I remember that she like told me and I grew up eating. So those are the recipes that are in there they're like mostly pretty traditional like soviet era desserts like what so like there so like one is napoleon which is it's like this flaky custard pastry that like allegedly was developed in the soviet union or i guess in russia after a war with the French that the Russians won.

51:16Aliza Kellerman:So they like made it as like a celebration pastry. And you'll see it like on Eastern European tables, like on New Year's Eve and just like celebratory events. So that one, there's the one that I would say we like associated with her the most was a strudel recipe, which has like sour cherries and walnuts. I think that that one is maybe in spot like comes from like Austrian German kind of like roots. There's I'm blanking on the name of the magazine now, but my mom was telling me this like that recipe she got. There was like the first Western magazine that was allowed into the Soviet Union was this like German fashion magazine.

52:06and it like had this recipe for strudel in it.

52:11Aliza Kellerman:Oh, I love that. And I think that's where her recipe kind of like came from. I mean, I'm sure she made tweaks, but like that.

52:21Aliza Kellerman:And there's an apple tart, like an open-faced apple tart with like apricot jam on top. There's another one that she used to call Twardh Karpath, which was named after the Karpathian mountains. in Easter, like east of Ukraine.

52:44Aliza Kellerman:And when, so when they moved to the U.S., we used to, we like, my grandma lived in Brooklyn for her whole, like, the whole, like, end of her life. I think she, I'm trying to think how old she was when she moved here. I guess like 20-something years until she passed away. She was a New Yorker. And we had like a tiny bungalow in the Catskills. And so I would spend summers there with my grandparents. And she would go there with me. Like she would go there after my sister and I stopped going just like with my grandfather and then afterwards with like boyfriends after my grandfather passed away. Queen.

53:13Aliza Kellerman:Yes. And so like the cake eventually we renamed to like the Catskills Mountain Cake because that was where it was made. So that's what it's called in the book. And that one is made with like tea biscuits that you can get at the grocery store. And so it's more of like an assembly process than a baking process. I love all of these recipes because I think I'm a tea drinker who I will drink tea on its own all the time. But there are certain foods that are just so much better with tea.

53:41Matt Rodriguez:Like you wouldn't even have them without tea sometimes.

53:45Aliza Kellerman:Totally. And I think like so, for example, with the that last one, like the Catskills Mountain Cake, like one of the elements of it is dipping the tea biscuits into black into black tea. So it's like it's just like part of the experience. Absolutely.

54:00Matt Rodriguez:I spend a good amount of time in Taiwan with my girlfriend's family every year. And there are so many like pineapple cakes or like these very like, you know, crumbly, like slightly drier sweets that you're supposed to have it with a cup of oolong tea. And that combined experience is so much more delicious than just like eating it on its own, too.

54:19Aliza Kellerman:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like a lot of like more like American or just like modern American pastries are really like kind of meant for coffee. And so but there are things that like just taste better with tea.

54:34Matt Rodriguez:Yeah. I think maybe after reading the book, people will be inspired to think about what else you can be doing with tea or how else you can be like using tea in your cooking. I feel like that's also such a cool element of things.

54:45Aliza Kellerman:Yeah, there's a there's like a popsicles recipe with tea popsicles. And then like I loved that. I like need to buy popsicle molds after reading that. I got popsicle molds a couple years ago, like after my daughter started asking for ice cream. And they're all actually haven't made any yet this summer. But it's like at first the recipe was just like irrelevant to the book because it was just like cantaloupe. Like I love cantaloupe popsicles. And then I was like, all right, I also make these like licorice and burdock popsicles, which is like with one of the there's a tea that Masha. Carrie is called skin tea, which is just licorice and burdock.

55:17Aliza Kellerman:And that's like so refreshing in popsicle form. I mean, you are like licking ice, but it's also like, don't you want to be licking ice when you come home from like a 90 degree day on the subway?

55:27Matt Rodriguez:I've been thinking about it a lot because it's been so hot recently in New York. And I think the popsicle is a really good idea. Or then you can also kind of like put it in a cup and break it up a little bit. And then it's like a slushy kind of tea slushy.

55:40Aliza Kellerman:Totally. And I mean, people bake a lot with teas. Like I'm just not a huge baker. So like I don't I didn't add that element to the book. But like people like poach fish with tea. People like make hojicha cookies. Like there's so many ways to incorporate tea into cooking. It's just like not something that I personally want to do. But I get that like others do.

56:03Matt Rodriguez:Yeah, I'll shout out one of my favorite things to do with leftover if I have like cold barley tea or corn tea in my fridge is I'll just make rice and use that tea to make the rice. And then the rice has it's almost like eating barley. It has this very kind of like nutty quality to it. That sounds so nice. Ham Elway Lee served me rice that he made with barley tea. And I was so thrown. I was like, I'm so confused about what I'm eating. Feels like I'm eating barley, but I'm not. And then once he told me that he did that, it kind of like opened up my eyes to the possibilities of just substituting water for tea when you're cooking things.

56:34Matt Rodriguez:That makes sense. While we're talking about maybe unexpected tea applications, I'm curious if there are any like misconceptions about tea that you see and would want to clear up. I don't know if you see any. I mean, I think that's a tough question because I feel like there's there's just so many tea cultures.

56:53Aliza Kellerman:Like if you think about like Turkish tea or like Chinese tea culture or even like the American South with like, you know, like sweet tea. Like I almost feel like people don't actually have that much of an opinion about tea because it's like I think everybody's reference points are so different. And I guess like right now a big reference point is like matcha culture, just like in major cities. But it's also like I don't know. I don't know that I like see that that like misconceptions in a way. It's kind of like I feel like contemporary tea culture is very new and like people are adapting. I mean, tea's been around for thousands of years, like both herbal and like actual tea.

57:39And I kind of think that we're in this really interesting moment where like tea culture is actually developing and like becoming something new.

57:49Aliza Kellerman:And so I'm just curious to see where that goes. And I don't know that it's fair to be like, this is right or wrong. I think it's just kind of like happening.

57:58Matt Rodriguez:Yeah, I think you're right. There is so many, there are so many exciting things happening with tea. What do you think about the like strawberry matcha, like the kind of tea cocktail inspired drinks that we're seeing? So I've never actually had one of those.

58:13Aliza Kellerman:They're really good. They look good. They're really pretty. I'm almost like a bad person to ask because I'm I like really simple things like I would never order that I also like you know just like with cocktails which that's another place like people make tea cocktails like and I've done and that I've had like friends infuse like vodka and like mezcal with my teas for Masha but like I I like wouldn't order a funky cocktail I would like get a martini and so like I don't really I'm like a little bit outside of the culture of like let me taste this interesting drink because like I don't want to if that makes sense.

58:54Matt Rodriguez:Well if you ever want to try a strawberry matcha together I'd be curious for your opinion.

58:57Aliza Kellerman:Okay we could totally there's like there's a coffee shop next door to my daughter's daycare that does that kind of thing and they oh and people like well you know you you get it like they are like they go there for that it's like there's a line and I'm just like but I've never thought like I should try this weirdly enough. It's interesting because I drink black coffee.

59:15Matt Rodriguez:Like I'm not default going to order a more complicated drink. And I think maybe sometimes I have the reactionary feeling of, oh, everyone is doing this. So how good could it be? And then I tried one. I was like, oh, this is actually an incredible drink. And sometimes you want a little treat and also a little bit of caffeine at the same time. And it kind of it set me down a dark path. And now I'm ordering like complicated coffee drinks, too. So you might need to be careful. OK. Like what? Well, like, I mean, I guess they're not that complicated. But a espresso tonic is this my new fixation drink of the summer, which is like tonic water with two shots of espresso in it.

59:56Matt Rodriguez:And then sometimes there'll be a little bit of citrus peel or some citrus juice even. But it's a very refreshing. It's the only refreshing coffee drink I feel like I've ever had before where I'm like, this is something I really want to seek out. Interesting.

1:00:08Aliza Kellerman:And like with the strawberry matcha situation, I think they also have like blackberry matcha and like every. Is it like does it taste like ice cream?

1:00:16Matt Rodriguez:It does have. OK, so it has sort of that milky quality because, you know, there's like some kind of like oat milk or nut milk or something like in the matcha. Maybe that's the other difference is that I don't really like milky coffee. So that's why I'm doing the espresso tonic route. But the strawberry matcha, I feel like it almost rounds out the kind of grassy flavor of matcha that maybe especially some places that are not having the absolute best matcha that you could have. I think the strawberry kind of does a lot to kind of like bring out that kind of herbaceous quality, but also like make it a little bit more kind of rounded and sweet.

1:00:51Matt Rodriguez:And then it does. It's not like drinking a milkshake, but it does have some of that milkiness. Okay, well, now I'm going to try one. Yeah, I'm making you more or less interested.

1:00:57Aliza Kellerman:More interested, yeah. I just haven't actually thought about it. Like, I just, when I, you know what I mean? Like, I've, like, seen it, and I haven't been, like, I would never have that. I just kind of, like, it didn't even, like, enter my realm of, like, this is something I could order.

1:01:10Matt Rodriguez:Right, well, now I've been seeing, I've seen some places that are doing, like, dirty matcha that has, like, a shot of espresso in it as well. That I'm not interested in. That's too far.

1:01:20Aliza Kellerman:Yeah, I think that's too far.

1:01:21Matt Rodriguez:Okay, that's pretty reasonable. I'm wondering, like, having written this book, which is kind of collecting so much knowledge and interest you've had for a long time, do you think it's given you a different perspective on tea?

1:01:35Aliza Kellerman:I think it's made me kind of it's made me have to, like, pin down. Like concepts that I had that I maybe didn't realize, like, I feel like I've always thought about tea is like a lifestyle. style like but I haven't like so like I know I brought this up earlier but like one example is my editor was like why don't you do a little like section on tea and personal style and kind of like group people into categories and I was just like this sounds really fun like like 17 magazine quiz vibe and I was just like okay like that sounds I'll do that so it's like things like that that I'm and that's like sort of silly maybe but there's like aspects like that where I'm like well how do you actually explain this to somebody versus just being like oh well like tea is related to like there's like a lot of tea references in books and it's like okay but like what are they you know what I mean so I think it's made me have to like and so one so like with that example like I tried to open a lot of the chapters with different with quotes or like little poems which I wasn't planning on doing but it's like there were there were things like that that that just made me look a little bit deeper into like these sort of broad ideas that I had about what tea culture is.

1:02:55Aliza Kellerman:Also, the book is obviously not exhaustive, like in terms of the travel sections, like I specifically focused on places that I've been personally because so like, for example, China is the birthplace of tea, but I don't I do write about Chinese tea culture a little bit in like the history section, but I was just like, I don't, it's not like fair for me to like dive into every tea growing region in the world. And so I just kind of like, similarly to how with Masha Tea, I just like pick teas that I like. With the book, I was like, let me just focus on places

1:03:28Matt Rodriguez:that I've at least traveled to at this time, you know? No, I think that makes a lot of sense. And it is kind of a personal book. So it's nice to see those kinds of references and moments in it.

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1:05:55Matt Rodriguez:This episode is brought to you by Facebook. So you were scrolling on Marketplace, and there it was, the bike you'd been searching for. You sent a message, and it turned out the seller was super chatty, kind of funny, and an avid cyclist. The next thing you know, you're in a cycling crew. Well, a community cycling group. The thing about Facebook, you might find more than what you're looking for. From a browse to a bike ride, this summer, find more on Facebook. I want to play a rapid-fire game with you to close. So I'm going to have you pick some favorites. And specifically in the book, you write about how you think there's a tea for every situation.

1:06:32Matt Rodriguez:So I have a couple of situations that I would like you to prescribe tea for. Okay. You're up for it. I'm up for it. Okay. The best tea for a hot summer day? Iced mint. The best tea for a celebration?

1:06:48Aliza Kellerman:Black tea. Because you can serve it with pastries and have the option to have cute little lemon slices, milk. Sorry, that wasn't rapid fire, but like, no, it's a good explanation. The best tea to soothe a broken heart. Whenever I'm grieving, I turn to Tulsi, which is also called Holy Basil. It's one of my favorite herbal teas. Caveat with that is I think that's like a comfort tea for me. And I think people there's like a lot in the book about finding your own comfort herbs. But yes, I would say Holy Basil Tulsi tea.

1:07:24Matt Rodriguez:I really enjoy that herb as well. Your favorite tea related travel destination that you've been to? Japan.

1:07:32Aliza Kellerman:Like, is that specific enough? I guess like. I'll take whatever comes to mind. Yeah, I think Japan, Kyoto, and also like just like drinking green tea just on the like mountainside with the people with like the at the farm that I source from. And like that that's like a very like key moment for me. The rarest tea you've tried? So my favorite tea shop in the world is Postcard Teas in London. I love it there. And when I went, the owner, Tim, who himself has written a few tea books, did like a tasting with me. And we tried a few Pu-Ehrs, which I would love to learn more about in the years to come.

1:08:20Aliza Kellerman:But I'm assuming that the rarest tea I've tried was one of those Pu-Ehrs with him. I can't even identify which one.

1:08:25Matt Rodriguez:They're like the most expensive tea in the world, basically, right? Yes. They're aged.

1:08:29Aliza Kellerman:They're fermented. They're in bricks. So it's just like a different style of tea production. And they, yeah, and they're kind of like collector's items. Some of them. Some of them are like, you know, you can get like a relatively cheap one to drink every day. But yeah. Okay.

1:08:48Matt Rodriguez:So you mentioned your favorite tea shop in the world. What's your favorite tea shop in New York?

1:08:52Aliza Kellerman:I love floating mountain tea house. It's on the Upper West Side. It's like on 70 something. I don't remember. But you walk upstairs, you take off your shoes, you can hang out for like an hour and they like refill your tiny cup. And also I like going there because they have specialty pu-erhs and oolongs. And like if I'm going out for tea, I like to go somewhere where there isn't what I already have at home. And like I and they specialize in Chinese teas. And like I said, I don't know that much about Chinese tea. So that's part of why I love going there. Your favorite place to drink tea that's not a tea shop?

1:09:28Aliza Kellerman:I really like drinking tea in my sister's apartment. That's like my other favorite place to drink tea in New York. It used to be my grandmother's apartment when she was still alive, but I love drinking tea in my sister's apartment. We like the same teas. And also she has a great teaware collection. and like when I travel like I got her this beautiful teapot in Paris that I was like I shouldn't get this for myself so it's like I like will get her stuff like that but I'm like I am obsessed with this piece and I want somebody that I love to have it but I like cannot keep buying stuff for myself like this so she all she has like my second favorite collection of like stuff that I've picked out I love that that's what sisters are there for yes okay my final

1:10:10Matt Rodriguez:question is a fictional food scene like from a book or a movie or something made up that you wish

1:10:15Aliza Kellerman:you could eat in real life um so the movie phantom thread has like really beautiful tea scenes and and the and like the food is maybe a little basic but it's just like my ideal breakfast scenario it's just like a pot of black tea there's soft boiled eggs there's like scones or toast with like butter and jam and that and it's and there's a lot of napkins like linen napkins.

1:10:41Matt Rodriguez:Yeah I love that movie and I've loved this conversation. Thank you for coming on the show.

1:10:45Aliza Kellerman:Thank you so much for having me.

1:10:52Matt Rodriguez:This is Taste is hosted and produced by Matt Rodbard and me Eliza Abarbanel. The show is edited by lead producer Clayton Gumbert and supervised by Pat Stango director of media production and development at Penguin Random House. Thanks to Shalia Harris and the production team at Penguin Random House. Theme music by Steve Rydell. Episode portraits by Louise Zergang Pomeroy. Logo design by Ellie Skurzat and Ian Dingham. Visit Taste online at tastecooking.com and make sure to subscribe to our newsletter to keep updated on all cool things in the world of taste.

1:11:27Maria Geyman:I just want to give you the space to process it, Michael said.

1:11:31Aliza Kellerman:Elena paused. I don't think I want to see anybody else. This is the love story of real hinge couple Elena and Michael, written and read by me, Raven Smith.

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