838: How Apollo Bagels Took Over NYC… and Tokyo with Joey Scalabrino

22:15Matt Rodbard:and see the kind of chaos and the fish kind of getting thrown around oh yeah like middle of the night like super early in the morning it was amazing i miss it i miss it downtown but it is fun to still go in the Bronx. You know, I've actually never been, but I want to go. It's very fun. Okay. I'm making, maybe this will be like my Christmas plan for the year. I'm down. I'll go with you. Okay, great. Well, since you grew up in the city and since you are working in bagels, I have to ask you what your family bagel was growing up. Did you guys have one? Didn't really have a family bagel because it was really just bagels for me were something I would have like before or after like soccer practice.

22:51It was like kind of like where ever the nearest one was. I have memories of H &H and all these places, but it was mainly just something I had before or after sports practice.

23:05Matt Rodbard:I think you're right. I feel like the ubiquitous nature of bagels is what makes New York bagels so special that there's bagels kind of everywhere. Exactly. Yeah. So I guess before we talk about bagels, can you tell me about your career in food what were you doing before you launched apollo and like before that basically right out of high school i i didn't want to go to college i knew i did not want to go to college i wanted to start working um immediately and mostly in design in some ways i wanted to work for my dream was to say work for nike or something uh then i found out that you had to move to Oregon and you had to go to college for something and industrial design so I just fascinated with like art and design in general and got a few like internships and fashion right out of high school and then realized I needed a job and my a good friend of mine who was a neighbor of mine basically brought me to Peasant, which is an Italian restaurant.

24:13And I just fell in love with the idea of a restaurant, and it was hand-built by the owner. It was just the wood fire cooking. And that same family then got me a job washing dishes for a personal chef on the Upper East Side. Then I met this guy named Serge Becker, who was, he started La Schina. and he was a fascinating guy that was like in design and nightlife and food and wasn't even necessarily Mexican, but opened this Mexican restaurant. I just thought it was amazing. And I got a job there and that kind of just like started my career in cooking. And I was like, okay, I'm just going to, I just want to be a chef.

24:54So I went down, uh, worked at a bunch of places after that all over New York and, um, but not for too long. And then I sort of pivoted and wasn't sure what I wanted to do. Um, I worked at the Nomad hotel for a moment doing front of house, took a break from cooking. Um, and then I, yeah, I, I wasn't really sure what, what I wanted to do, but, uh, I just wanted to cook honestly and be creative. I went to China for a bit and consulted for some restaurants in mainland China. And eventually it led to me just wanting to open my own place, which was my first restaurant, which was called Leo. And yeah, that's the short story of many years cooking.

25:47Matt Rodbard:I want to talk about Leo, but first we have to talk about Las Quina for another minute because I have a fascination with this restaurant and I didn't know that you worked there. And if someone is listening and not familiar, you can correct me, but the way I would describe La Esquina is it's like a front, like it looks like a little kind of street taco place on the street level. But then downstairs is like early 2010s, like clubstorant kind of nightlife-y vibe in a really specific way. Yeah, it was amazing. that i i didn't grow up with mexican food so that was my you know that that club stronte mexican food is my introduction to mexican food but it was also my introduction to like even um celebrity you know you had to walk through the kitchen to get to the restaurant and that was this very um probably illegal, but very amazing experience for customers.

26:46And then walking through the kitchen, seeing everything felt like a secret. And the food, I thought the food was pretty good. A lot of fun nights at Las Kina.

26:57Matt Rodbard:Yeah, it's such a smart formula. It's like CNBC, but CNBC and by the entire restaurant staff that's about to make you dinner. Exactly. The other way around. I don't know how much you can get into it, but do you have any memorable celebrity sightings from when you were there? I remember seeing David Beckham for the first time in person there, which was pretty, you know, as a huge fan as a kid. Yeah. It was like, wow. You know, so, but yeah, lots of people. I would love to see David Beckham in any setting, honestly. Yeah, it was cool. So I guess jumping forward, Leo is such a special restaurant.

27:33Matt Rodbard:I would say sourdough pizza, other delicious kind of Italian food. What was the vision for Leo when you were kind of getting it going? We wanted to do a lot of things. We wanted to be a casual pizza place with like good wine, but also we had this like bakery component and a pretty ambitious idea to have all of this under one roof. and then we had you know so many ideas to have this like really like quality neighborhood restaurant and then we'd like four months later COVID started and it kind of just like kind of reset and we had to kind of change a lot but a lot of the ideas just maybe rolled out in a different way um from covid reasons but yeah i have a really strong memory of covid walking from where i lived in clinton hill all the way up through williamsburg to go to leo to get the concord grape soft serve because the leo concord grape soft serve is the thing i look forward to most in the fall there's something about it that's so delicious yeah that was um crazy like learning how to make soft serve learning how honestly to make so many things like kind of on my own and uh with my partners there and with the with the team and it was it was fascinating the concord grape was yeah one of my favorite soft serves as well it is like a a banger and it's how i mark the fall is approaching because it's early fall and you still are you know want to eat ice cream but also the grapes are available Exactly.

29:12Matt Rodbard:So soft serve maybe is not something that's happening at Apollo yet, but sourdough, other kinds of things are maybe a through line. I'm curious if you learned anything from making and selling pizza at Leo or maybe just running the restaurant in general that you kind of applied to Apollo when you started to think about opening up a bagel shop. I was around like 23 when I discovered the tartine book. And I went to tartine in San Francisco and just fell in love with bread. And as soon as I made a loaf that came out okay, it just was an unbelievable feeling. And that's the only bread I kind of knew how to make.

29:56And sourdough was just a part of my life from then on. And so when I got obsessed with pizza, I was like, this has to be sourdough because then it's, I can make it, it'll be really easily digestible. It'll be really more nuanced in flavor. And that was the idea that Leo and so many years of being a pizza nerd. And then I took a lot of that, a lot of that just bread knowledge and pizza knowledge to bagels, which was I didn't really have that plan, but that's just kind of how it came to be.

30:35Matt Rodbard:Yeah. How did Apollo kind of come to be? we were you know in the mornings it was and people didn't people didn't have to go to work so we were and people were just floating around the mornings you're just making everything and anything to see what would stick and bagels i just started making bagels because it just seemed like a fun thing to make and people just caught on to it and yeah it took me a long time to like figure it out but it was just the product that I wanted to it was like the bagel that I wanted to eat um and it seemed like only I could figure out how to make it uh so I had to like make it for myself and yeah that was early like COVID survival just try to get people in the doors yeah that's kind of how it began and then when did you decide this should be a business on its own I knew I just wanted to make the messaging super clear, which I think is kind of hard with a restaurant.

31:36And I wanted to really dedicate my time to like this single product for as long as I can and then make sure that people really understand what the place is. So I put Apollo Bagels. Like it has the thing in the name. And it started as a pop-up. You know, the first time we did it as Apollo Bagels was at the soup window, Effanelli's, which was amazing. I still can't believe they let me do that. I thank them all the time. And, yeah, I just felt like that was a really cool place to, like, start a food business. I didn't know how big it would get at that time, but it was a fun place to just, like, get, you know, product market fit, see if people even liked it see see if i should really even be making these um so that was fun

32:33Matt Rodbard:yeah i think the pop-up way is such a cool way to kind of test things out and especially in that era of food in new york like there are so many restaurants that we all love that began as pop-ups in that period of time truly yeah so what were the kind of early bagels when you were thinking about what you would offer obviously like the flavor of the bagel is one component but then also what goes on the bagel is another half of it what was kind of the core lineup that you began to develop yeah we knew the menu just needed to be really small there were things that we used to do in the past that we don't do anymore but um yeah it was like I always wanted just like the simple ones were like so just butter and cream cheese it's like that will always be a desire um even for myself or for kids or just people, super affordable.

33:22And then salmon with all the usual suspects on it, the capers, onions, dill. And then tomato, which was just something that I always loved and I always added to my bagels as a kid. So just even if it was just cream cheese with tomato um and then we a whitefish bagel that i think came a bit later but yeah that came maybe i think closer when we actually opened the first store right the whitefish one um and that's just like a particular person and that sometimes is like their favorite and other people can't believe

34:00Matt Rodbard:it you know so i love a good whitefish bagel yeah i think the apollo whitefish yeah are you guys making the whitefish salad yourself? We make it with Acme. Yeah. But then we add a bunch of stuff to it and mustard and pickled peppers. And I think things that aren't usually in it. Yeah. It's very like nuanced whitefish salad where sometimes it can get a little kind of heavy. I don't have that problem with it, which is nice. Can we talk about the tomato also? Because I love tomato on a bagel, but sometimes you just get not great tomatoes when you're getting them at a bagel place. So How do you guys make the tomatoes so consistently good year round?

34:37Yeah, I'm all about seasonal cooking, but I don't necessarily, maybe it's a hot take. For tomatoes, I actually don't, I think I eat them all year, kind of. You can get pretty good tomatoes now all the time and just put seasoned well with olive oil and sea salt. You can get them quite good all the time. But we have a, you know, for Apollo, we have it's basically one guy's full time job to make sure that we have the right tomatoes all the time for all the stores.

35:11Matt Rodbard:The tomato guy. Shout out to Ben. He does a lot of supply chain stuff. You know, it's like making sure the oranges are always good because that is always fluctuating. The tomatoes make sure they're the right size. But, yeah, I mean, salt and pepper and olive oil go a really long way on a tomato. I think it's the olive oil that made the biggest difference to me. I remember the first time I had Apollo at the actual store. It was the First Ave, East Village store. Is that your first? Yeah. Yeah. And I got the tomato bagel and it came open face and it had the drizzle of the olive oil on the tomato.

35:46And it felt very, okay, you're a New Yorker, so you might not like this.

35:50Matt Rodbard:It felt very Californian to me. Yeah. What I would say is a positive way because I'm from LA and I feel like to have the open face sandwich served to you and to have the kind of like chef-y touch on the tomato, like it felt very kind of unfamiliar, but also familiar in a cool way. No, I mean, as a New Yorker, I'm so inspired by California. And, you know, one of the first places I saw, you know, my true maybe inspiration for the first place I really saw open face bagels were at Juista a really long time ago. And that place still is, I mean, that, you know, it's become such a, you know, cannot replicate anywhere in the world except for there.

36:33So I always look at California as inspirational ways. Yeah, I'm curious, other points of inspiration, bagel places or not, are there businesses that maybe when you're thinking about opening Apollo or even now were kind of reference points for you? So many bakeries and usually abroad was really inspiring to me, even like just the vibe and just the dedication to like doing a few things really well. I think that those kind of my inspiration usually kind of stem from travel mostly. A lot in Europe and a lot of places in London.

37:20Matt Rodbard:Cool. So how many bagel stores does Apollo have now? We have nine at the moment. That's so many. Yeah. All in New York City. Yep. One in Jersey. One in Jersey. One in Hoboken. How do you choose where to open the locations? I think New York, you know, every neighborhood is like its own world. So, you know, there's like obviously all the classic neighborhoods that, you know, are kind of expected. Yeah, we just kind of like base it off of where do we think is a good space that we like, the energy of the block, you know, where it is exactly. That's sort of how we just go one location at a time based on feeling.

38:02Matt Rodbard:So you're not looking up maps of foot traffic in the city, things like that. Yeah, no, we're super low tech with that. We don't really overthink it. We're not outside like counting people walking by. and corners I guess seem to be like a through line as well corners are ideal but not not always possible and in this in New York it's just so expensive and yeah for us it's also kind of nice to be like on a you know depending on maybe a little bit of a side street but we have a few corners and like the East Village one is like a side street and that was like a the first location was that was just like a bar that was there for a while and it's it was kind it's thinking back it's like a perfect block for the the first one just how it all worked out there was no nothing really next to us but an apartment building so the line wasn't like messing up anyone else's business so yeah yeah that's interesting i guess knowing your design background how does the kind of design factor into what you want the stores to look like do you have specific vision or reference points?

39:13I think it's evolved a lot since the first one. I think for me, I just wanted to not look like a bagel shop. We didn't have so many cream cheeses, so I didn't need that fridge up in the front. And I wanted to look like just like some sort of bakery eatery that just happened to only sell bagels. And then that's evolved over time since the first one. And we've gotten better at choosing materials and always playing around with something new with the interior.

39:43Matt Rodbard:Yeah, the most recent one you opened in Tribeca is such a beautiful big space. And it almost feels timeless or even from the 90s. It has like a very kind of older New York feel to it. Yeah, that was the idea kind of for that one. And yeah, we knew a lot of families would be there. So a lot of space, a lot of space for strollers. There's nice millwork. There's a beautiful park outside. There was a pharmacy, like a famous Tribeca pharmacy. So I just wanted to kind of do justice. Yeah. I wanted to ask you about how collabs fit into the Apollo brand or the brand building because you guys partner with really fun chefs or like restaurants or other brands.

40:25Matt Rodbard:Like how do you think about that? You know, it was Apollo was built off of it was it started as a pop up and that's how we kind of spread the word in the beginning. And that's how we got the community that we have. And that's how I've formed the community of so many friends that are chefs and founders of other companies or CPG. And, yeah, I mean, a lot of it's, like, become my community and my friend group, which is—and now bringing new friends, which is amazing. And it really gets you out of the day-to-day a little bit to do something fun and maybe a little crazy and a little ambitious. And, yeah, and the customer gets excited and they learn something new.

41:15Maybe they can learn about a product that they didn't know about before. And we always like to work with people, like, early on, too, in their kind of careers because I think it's, like, super fun and helpful for them. And we want to be, like, just a little bit ahead of it all.

41:36Matt Rodbard:Yeah. And the bagel is also such a good canvas for people to put their own things onto. Exactly. Yeah. Can you give an example or two of a successful Apollo collab? So many. I mean, Brendan, you know, Uncle's Curry, that was amazing. You were there for that one. The green curry chicken salad bagel. That blew my mind. Yeah. You know, that's kind of a good idea where it was like we got to make a product that I didn't know I needed in my life, which was green curry chicken salad. I need you guys to read it back. Yeah. That, you know, and, you know, it was fun to, you know, make the videos and promote it and have all of our friends come.

42:20And, yeah, that one, you know, amazing. We did Rosella. You know, we didn't know how busy that one would have been, but Spicy Ratu and Anna Bagel. It was, like, insane. and yeah, I've done so many fun ones now.

42:37Matt Rodbard:I bet there must be a lot of people coming to you wanting to do the collabs. Kind of, yeah, kind of, but maybe not as many as you'd think, but it usually needs to be a mutual admiration for each other. Not a collab, but a special. The nectarine cream cheese honey bagel you were doing recently really speaks to me as well. Yeah, that one, you know, I love nectarines. It wasn't even necessarily like something that I would eat, but I realized that so many people loved it so much and want that sweet thing in the morning. So yeah, it was really nice. Yeah, it's funny. I feel like being raised in a Jewish family, my family at least kind of looks down on sweet bagels, like a cinnamon raisin bagel or blueberry bagel.

43:28Matt Rodbard:That's like for kids kind of. but the nectarine honey on like a classic plain bagel feels maybe more adult appropriate. Yeah, it was beautiful. I think that's also just, it's kind of hard with a bagel sometimes just to make it like visually stunning. That's just the world we live in of getting people's attention. So that one just kind of was really hard to build, but beautiful. Yeah, it looked great. I want to ask you about the recent Apollo Bagels pop-up that you guys did with Dean and DeLuca in Tokyo. What was that like? Oh, man. That was a dream come true. I can't even believe it happened. Two years of almost talking about it, trying to manifest it, going to Japan to meet with Dean DeLuca, which is a place that I hold near and dear to my heart.

44:25I grew up with.

44:25Matt Rodbard:and for context was a specialty grocer here in New York that is now no longer in business in the states but is seemingly booming in Japan yeah yeah there's 50 of them in Japan and I don't kind of randomly met their team in Japan and pitched the idea of doing Apollo with them and yeah they eventually agreed and yeah six months of planning I was there for I was in Tokyo for like three weeks working every day trying to promote the the pop-up and it was just a three-day pop-up and it was just insane it was just insanity just so many people how many bagels did you guys sell we did a thousand a day but probably needed a lot more if we wanted to serve everyone yeah i heard there were just super long lines yeah yeah people lining up at five in the morning the trains don't even work and it started at 10 so it was a lot of waiting wow yeah yeah you're like a big old rock star it was it was wild yeah i think a lot of people talk about the new york water all these kind of regional local things that make our bagels taste so good.

45:45Matt Rodbard:How did it go to try to replicate the bagels in Tokyo? Tokyo was a little easier than some of the other ones. Their water, I was there for so long too, so I could kind of like really figure it. I had time to figure it out. The water, from what I understand, in Tokyo is actually kind of similar to New York type water. and um i had some understanding of the flour because there's great bread and pizza great sourdough bakeries and in japan so i knew it was like not going to be so hard but yes other other cities have been a bit harder um especially when i've had less time to understand the how the flour and the water work together yeah but yeah tokyo was actually on the easier side which was great.

46:32Matt Rodbard:What's one of the more difficult cities you've done a bagel pop-up in? I think the hardest one was this weird one we did in Ibiza, which was, yeah, I didn't really have enough time to like figure everything out, but that was tricky. Paris is, we did Paris a while ago. That was kind of tricky, but yeah, I think just, I just need like more time with the flour, but. Do you eat bagels recreationally or like for research when you go to other cities? Not really. I did try bagels in Japan and they're interesting. Some are good, but very different. Yeah. Very different. Yeah. Sometimes I don't. Bagels or tacos, things that we can get so easily and well.

47:18Matt Rodbard:There's like a Michelin starred taqueria in Taipei where I go every year with my girlfriend and every year she's like we have to go to Pong Taqueria and try it and I just don't want to go because even if it's good it's still not what I want to be eating in that context and I also feel like my barrier is just going to be like maybe unfairly high yeah no I agree yeah yeah I don't um but a lot of the places that we go there are no bagels so there's nothing to try but yeah yeah when I you know when I fly to visit my sister in Portland, Oregon. Sometimes I bring bagels from New York there because somehow, and someone in Portland is going to get mad at me.

47:56Matt Rodbard:Like I have not had a good bagel in Portland, Oregon. I could, I could see that. Yeah. But Tacoma, Washington, incredible bagels. I think you, I might, you might've mentioned that. I've literally talked to you about Howdy Bagel. It's kind of a small town and they, they told me they sell 4 ,000 bagels a day on the weekends like they are really booming and the bagels are quite a good bagel yeah i i follow a lot of people on instagram just making amazing amazing looking bagels like all over the country um it's it's crazy people it's kind of just happened with bread and pizza all at once where people just like they crack the code somehow and um what's what seemingly was once really hard to do and you weren't finding much of it in the country is now just everywhere.

48:48Matt Rodbard:Yeah, that's really interesting to think about. And I guess looking at what you guys have going on now at Apollo in the future, I know you have an exciting new product that you're starting to roll out in stores. Do you want to talk about it? Yeah, we're making bagel chips is a new thing that we're playing with. and I think it's exciting because it's something that now tourists and people can bring home pretty easily. Right. And it's just like a nice gift, but it's also nice to just have at home. But, yeah, we have three flavors that we're starting with. It's still very much in beta, but we're doing like an olive oil sea salt, which is like the plain.

49:30we're doing a cinnamon sugar and ranch just like straight up kind of doritos vibe so i just tried

49:38Matt Rodbard:these before we started talking and the ranch one was so powerful and delicious it kind of our producer clayton and i were i wish you were here when you're trying them because we just were like he like stumbled back on his feet like it was such a um delicious bagel chip and i think it makes sense especially when you say tourist like i know with world cup all of the people that were coming from outside of the U.S. coming to America were trying to leave with bottles of ranch in their suitcases. That's true. That's true. So you're being patriotic. Yeah. And it's also a way to use up leftover bagels, I would imagine.

50:10Yeah. I mean, now we might even have to make more just to make the chips. But that's the – yeah. And, yeah, it's nice to not have people who are like, oh, do Frozen. It's just, like, so different. This is now – this could, like, live on your shelf. You could look at it all the time, you know. really use it more often. I think it has a lot more use cases than a frozen bagel. Right. So that's, that's why we like it.

50:36Matt Rodbard:So yeah, I like it. It's a kind of new version of something as opposed to a pre-baked version of something. Have you been eating the chips in any fun ways? I, we've been eating it at home sometimes with, you know, the cinnamon sugar on yogurt has like a cereal vibe um the the ranch you know and the plane we just eat with like cheese or even guacamole or something it's it's they're really versatile it's whatever you could think of yeah and they also like the shape of them i think sometimes you have bagel chips maybe the more processed ones and it's kind of like a small flat circle but these ones look like pieces of of bread which they are yeah yeah yeah this is a more yeah they're not they're not so uniform which is kind of nice for snacking yeah have you learned anything unexpected about the bagel chip making process kind of every part of it uh since we're just doing it ourselves so yeah it's all it's all new and yeah we're just learning as as we're going just learning how to season them how to bake how to bake them, how to cut them.

51:49We had to go to Ohio to find this machine to slice them. And yeah, it's all been super interesting, fun process.

52:00Matt Rodbard:Yeah. I can see you getting excited about just getting to dial in all of the pieces of the process and the branding and the marketing of it as well. Yeah, that's going to be fun to really roll out the marketing for it. I want to see like a bagel chip billboard when you get off the bridge, something like that. I have some ideas. I'll show you. Yeah, I think maybe people will be walking around New York and see them this fall or something. I hope so. This episode is brought to you by ChatGPT. Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons Podcast. Have you guys heard about ChatGPT work? It's the new way to use ChatGPT for bigger multi-step projects.

52:38And when you need more than just answers, give ChatGPT work access to your apps and files and it can create real work documents like spreadsheets, slides, and structured reports. Get started at chatgpt.com by selecting work mode available on Plus and Pro plans.

52:56Matt Rodbard:Star Wars, The Mandalorian and Grogu is now streaming on Disney+. What are you waiting for? Hop on. The must-see galactic adventure comes home on Disney+. This is the way. Our only chance is to work together. I like this kid. Always wear your seatbelt. Star Wars The Mandalorian and Grogu. Now streaming on Disney+. Read PG-13. At ZocDoc, we know you care about your health. You wouldn't do that early morning cardio if you didn't. So the fact that your annual physical is overdue just shows how hard it can be to get seen by a doctor. Sorry, that doctor's not in network. Press 1 for more options. You've reached us outside normal business hours.

53:43Matt Rodbard:The next availability is in three months. But ZocDoc makes finding the right doctor easy. Download the app and search by specialty, insurance, and availability. Read real patient reviews, then book instantly. ZocDoc, ready to be seen? I want to play a rapid fire game with you to close, but beforehand, is there anything else coming up in the world of Apollo that you want to share? I think just a lot of fun. just keep doing fun things with cool people that we like there's a couple coming up in the fall um that's yeah just excited for the holiday season um it's always a fun time it's always a busy time in new york so um yeah just kind of still the it's so new still also so we're still learning so much and just trying to improve the basics.

54:34We'll also do things that stay creative to keep customers engaged and the staff engaged.

54:40Matt Rodbard:Yeah. Do you still like bagels? I like our bagels. Yeah. Yeah. I like our bagels. I eat ours. I don't eat many other bagels, but yeah. Yeah. Well, when you are surrounded by your own bagels, I feel like that's just smart business. Yeah. Okay, are you ready for rapid fire? Yes. Okay. Favorite cookbook? Cooking by Hand by Paul Bertolli. He was like an old Chez Panisse guy for a long time. and just my introduction to California Italian cuisine and the whole Chez Panisse, understanding what Chez Panisse even was and is, those books and river cafes and stuff just inform how I cook at home. Your go-to bodega snack?

55:31Banana.

55:34Matt Rodbard:Your go-to bagel order? sesame bagel with butter toasted untoasted your favorite ice cream flavor i really like stracciatella or the lately cookies and pana from cafe pana what you think is your favorite food neighborhood in new york i i want to say east village which your go-to quick lunch spot not so quick but bar pd for lunch your go-to special occasion restaurant the grill or elio's a now closed new york city business that you wish you could revive i mean dina de luca is up there that'd be nice to have near my house but i really miss so many and prune franny's so so many so many places that i miss okay final question is a fictional food scene like from a book or a movie or something made up that you wish you could magically eat in real life um the i just saw recently eat drink man woman amazing movie that I had never seen before in the opening scene of just cooking and the dad making the peaking duck in his backyard was amazing.

57:05All the banquet scenes, just amazing cooking.

57:10Matt Rodbard:I told you to watch that movie. Yeah. This is my recommendation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm so geeked that you watched it. It was unbelievable. Yeah. That's my answer too. And you know, I can't remember who, but And I asked this question to all my guests, mostly because I'm crowdsourcing movies for me to watch. And one of my early guests gave me that recommendation. And I think it really holds up. So this is also my answer to the question. It's unbelievable. I heard that the opening scene took like a week to film. And amazing. Now it makes me think like Peking Duck bagel collab. Yeah, I mean, we need one.

57:47We have to go to Taipei one day.

57:48Matt Rodbard:Yeah, we'll manifest that for the future too. Well, Joey, this has been such a fun conversation. Thank you for coming on the show. Thanks for having me.

58:18Matt Rodbard:Dell. Episode portraits by Louise Zergang Pomeroy. Logo design by Ellie Skurzat and Ian Dingham. Visit Taste Online at tastecooking.com and make sure to subscribe to our newsletter to keep updated on all cool things in the world of taste.

58:35This episode is brought to you by ChatGPT. Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons Podcast. Have you guys heard about ChatGPT work? It's the new way to use ChatGPT for bigger multi-step projects. And when you need more than just answers, give ChatGPT work access to your apps and files, and it can create real work documents like spreadsheets, slides, and structured reports. Get started at ChatGPT.com by selecting work mode available on Plus and Pro plans.

59:06Matt Rodbard:Hello. Look what TJ Maxx dragged in. The Devil Wears Prada 2 is now streaming on Disney Plus and Hulu. We are digital, we are downloadable, we are streamable. The fashion event of the year is certified fresh. Pull yourself together, we have work to do. Critics say it's smart and witty, and the perfect sequel. That's all. Get runway ready for The Devil Wears Prada 2 on Disney Plus and Hulu. Rated PG-13.