Sent to Stare at the Wall: The Social Media Ban

0:00When you finally find your thing, you want the whole world to know about that thing. So you use a thing called Canva to make it an even bigger and better thing. Whether you want to create flyers for that thing, make presentations for that thing, or design merch for that thing, you can do anything.

0:17Elliott:So people can see your thing, feel your thing, love your thing. The next thing you know, it's a thing. Canva, the thing that makes anything a thing.

0:35Elliott:hello and welcome to to be a boy with me joey brailey and me elliot ray so elliot it was the football last night and i have to say i think we really needed that we really needed it didn't we like 90 minutes of feeling actually proud of england and i was so happy marcus ruffman scored to goal yeah i was happy i mean i never thought we'd talk football on this podcast jerry so you continue to surprise me yeah it was i mean i'm a massive football geek and a world cup geek and as you said rashford scoring bellingham scoring as well because he's had a lot of unnecessary criticism yeah but to be honest so we did need it but i didn't know how to feel about this England team.

1:25Obviously, I support England. But I feel like because of the state of the country right now and how divided we are, I did go into it a little bit like, I'm not as connected as I normally am. Yeah. But the performance, the goal scorers, it kind of just won me over. So I'm getting that fever. But yeah, I don't think I'm alone in that. I think there's a lot of people that are a little bit like, yeah, we're not sure. We're not sure.

1:51Elliott:Yeah, no, I... I appreciate that, which is as well why I felt like it was so important that it happened and that we won and that we have such a diverse team. And then watching Duke Bellingham and Marcus Rashford score those goals. I mean, I have a longstanding love of Marcus Rashford. So just seeing him on the pitch and seeing him score a goal made me really happy. But yeah, I feel like as a country, we just needed those 90 minutes. We needed it. And I was thinking, I wonder, what do the restore voters think right now? Are they celebrating? Half the team is black. Half the team is black, right?

2:35Half the squad is black. And they're probably hating it. They probably want England to lose. They probably hated it when Rashford and Bellingham scored. so yeah I'm slowly getting onto onto the kind of World Cup fever and back to my normal self which is loving England wanting us to win wanting us to do well and I'm in my element right now right like I'm putting the kids to bed ASAP and I'm sitting I'm sitting on the sofa with an ice screen and watching the football this is like my time I'm loving it yeah that's what's happening

3:08Elliott:in my last two but with three boys and me which is why I've had to get into the football the other thing that made me really happy this week as well as the football was yesterday my son had his first parents evening at secondary school it went okay you know it wasn't absolutely incredible wasn't a disaster it went okay but I asked the English teacher what was on the curriculum in terms of books and I was really surprised what's on the curriculum do you know what's on the secondary school reading curriculum i know there's been some stuff where they've been taking books off the curriculum um tell us what's on the curriculum books that i did not know they i don't know how the curriculum works whether they can pick books or not but on this curriculum they had a carla empire i was like wow that is a myth i mean that is a book like yeah meeky brilliant book and they also had Candice Brathbites.

4:06Elliott:No way. Yeah, Roman's novel. That's incredible. I know, eh? I know there was some controversy because they were taking some books off the curriculum, weren't they? Or maybe it wasn't the curriculum, but I think it was from libraries. Yeah, that's right. Something where they were taking books off and a lot of it was around race and equality and gender and stuff like that. So that, big up the curriculum. I know. That's good. I'm absolutely elated. They also have Maya Angelou, Why Does Cage Bed Sing, which is my favourite book of all time. So I was really happy about that. But Akala Empire on the curriculum.

4:43Elliott:I was like, wow. Yeah, that's good. I had some good news yesterday. So we've been doing this Flowers for Father's Day campaign where we've been asking people to give their dads and father figures flowers as a way to break down those ideas about masculinity that mean we can't receive love and care. So I've been walking around the streets of Watford giving random men flowers super awkward by the way but i have no shame okay you can't embarrass me you cannot embarrass elliott i mean unembarrassable that's even a word so i've been giving random men flowers on the street and i also gave my dad flowers too anyway so my youngest came home from nursery yesterday with a father's day card and a flower and my wife said the nursery has seen what we we've been doing and it's giving all the nursery dads flowers and i was like oh oh so cute i know what flower was that out of interest it was a red rose interesting choice i'll take it right like daffodil but are we out of daffodil season but yeah it wasn't wouldn't be my choice of a of a flower but i take take what you can get you know i'm not complaining um so i just thought it was so nice because i've seen it and so all the nursery dads got flowers yesterday and i was like that is incredible so nice so brilliant i mean you've influenced me i'm off to the supermarket tomorrow to get my partner flowers for father's day and i said it to my son said to my son this morning oh it's uh father's day on saturday i'm gonna get your dad some flowers so you can give it to him and I thought he'd go what flowers and he didn't he just went oh that sounds lovely so I thought oh that's so nice do you know I think we underestimate we underestimate men I think a little bit in regards to like their willingness to embrace these kind of things like don't get me wrong we we did an event at the Emirates a couple weeks ago at Arsenal Stadium and there's about 100 dads there and we gave them all flowers and some of them were like why are you giving me flowers what's going on I feel super awkward I don't really you know this is weird to me but the majority were like yeah I get it I love it thank you like we need to have these conversations let's talk and I think we do underestimate and then maybe the media narrative is negative towards men and emotions and openness and vulnerability but I think you'd be surprised so everyone listening buy your dad flowers and it'll be uncomfortable it'll be awkward I can't I gave my dad flowers.

7:13I was more nervous giving my dad flowers than when we interviewed Sir Keir Starmer. Put it that way.

7:18Elliott:Oh, really? I was shitting myself. He loved it. He looked really happy when he gave them to him. I thought it was the sweetest moment. It was nice. He was looking a bit like, uh... Yeah, he was like, uh, okay, okay. Like, I looked at me, looked at the flowers, looked at me, looked at the flowers, and like, okay, cool. But he knows I'm crazy, so he kind of expects me to do weird stuff right let's talk about the social media ban um so we've uh found out that social media will be banned for under 16s uh it was announced on monday by kia starma at number 10 we've been talking about this quite a lot haven't we on the podcast so we were expecting it as most people were but we're still a little bit unsure about what the social media ban itself looks like so what we know so far is that it will cover snapchat tiktok youtube instagram facebook and x thank god it's covering x i think we should all be banned off x um however it says restrictions will closely follow australia's where the above apps plus kick i've never even heard of kick but kick bed it threads and twitch are banned for under 16s.

8:38Elliott:We don't know about the gaming side yet, which I'm actually quite nervous about. My kids love gaming. So Roblox obviously is probably the biggest platform. We're not really sure whether that's going to go as part of the ban. It's not included in the social media ban in Australia, but it still could be included in the UK. And regardless of whether it does end up being banned for under 16s roadblocks will still need to abide by requirements for all platforms to disable features that let strangers communicate with children which is a good thing um however children will still be able to do group play so my kids love that they play with all of their mates with the headphones on and suddenly hear all this shouting and it's a bit disruptive when you're trying to like have a life outside of gaming but um we don't know about minecraft whether that Minecraft will go and I really hope it won't my kids love Minecraft and I think Minecraft has loads of benefits YouTube is probably the biggest one of all of them and when I tell my kids about the social media ban that's all they cared about was like what's what what's happening with YouTube though I'll still be able to watch videos on YouTube it is included in the ban YouTube kids isn't my kids don't watch youtube kids okay um however it's not clear how youtube would tackle children accessing the platform through search without an account once a ban is enforced or how educational content could be carved out from any restrictions my eldest watches biking videos over and over again and he'll be gutted that he can't watch those and this is the problem part of the problem with the band right is that there's lots of good stuff on there as well as lots of damaging stuff and so an outright bang gets rid of the good with the bad um and yes i mean youtube shorts i think it's a nightmare and should go but there is some really good stuff on youtube and how you enforce a band like that to me is incredibly confusing whatsapp isn't included in the band so kids will be free to continue using whatsapp i think the age restriction on that is 14 but my son at 12 has whatsapp the government says it will use highly effective age assurance tactics so like tougher checks that aim to accurately identify or estimate a person's age to make the ban stick you obviously know it hasn't worked in australia three quarters i think it's three quarters or two-thirds of kids are still using social media and getting around it via VPN so they really need to think about how they'll make the ban actually work in reality so Elliot what do you think about the social media ban so many thoughts I think YouTube is a bit harsh it's a little bit harsh you know there's there's good stuff on YouTube but I think you can kind of get around that quite easily to be fair like on our smart TV I've got an account and I'll be happy for my my eldest to go on my account and watch stuff she already does like I'd have no problem with that as long as it's downstairs where we can see so yeah I think parents can get get around stuff if they don't agree with it so with the YouTube one it I think it is harsh but I don't think that's going to be so much of an issue if the parents are okay overall I think it needed to happen like I don't think it's perfect of course in Australia it hasn't worked completely kids have bpns they'll find ways around it so it's not completely enforceable but in regards to stay taking a stance a cultural shift a new norm i think we had to do something and i don't know what the alternative would have been like i don't know if we can regulate social media companies to the point where they're going to take down harmful content so this feels like the only thing to do and they had to do something.

12:37It's a weird one because, you know, I came on this podcast kind of quite angry a few months ago when I think it was the Iran war that started and then they seemed to sneak out the vote and voted against the ban.

12:48Elliott:Yeah, yeah. And so this feels a little bit weird. Is it a response to reform winning in the local elections and Keir Starmer feel like he has to do something? I don't know. So when I heard the news, I was a little bit like, something feels weird about the timing. but okay cool it's happened so i feel like it's a good thing that is happening um but the big thing for me and as we've spoken about is there's loads of children who are now going to have potentially lots of time on their hands and we are taking away one of their means for connection with their friends yes there's lots of harmful things that come along with that but we are taking away a big way that they connect with each other so what are we going to replace that with and so my thing has been okay cool I agree with the band let's do it but there then has to be as much investment now in third spaces youth centers youth services um jobs in the youth sector and making sure young people have places to go this is going to disproportionately impact lower income working class families you know because if you can afford you can afford the horse riding the tennis lessons the multi-purpose gyms all that sort of stuff if you're doing quite well in life fine you can find other things for your kids to do but if you're a single parent and you're working all the time you're struggling and you're just about getting by and actually a couple of hours in the evening for your kids to be on their phone was getting you through the day taking that away yes great but what is it going to replace with so i think we need to be saying to the government now yeah you've done a good thing but there's more to it did you see the girl on the bbc who was asked by the presenter what were you doing when social media i want to go to her comedy show where is she performing because that was hilarious deadpan response stare at a wall were just they just summed up everything that you just said though didn't it because that's the way that kids entertain themselves now because there's the places that exist like just those three words four words just summed up so much so brilliantly yeah yeah i absolutely agree with you if the government has actually recently invested through i think it was 350 million in activities for after school clubs which i think is a step in the right direction.

15:15Elliott:Of course, they had previously invested some more money in youth clubs, but hopefully that investment will increase. Around here there aren't any youth clubs. So I know there are areas where there's just nothing for kids to do, and those spaces are so important. I guess we've said, like, it does, this does, as my Geordie friends would say, it throws the baby out with the bathwater because... can we do an episode in your geordie accent complete please burning in their graves can we just write in write in petition with me please we need to get episode in geordie accent i love it just that snippet there made my day because it does uh there's lots of good stuff and particularly for kids who are neurodivergent kids who as you say kids who haven't come out yet kids who have responsibility for care to care for their parents often this is their only community their only access to community in a community that um respects them for who they are where they won't get bullied and they've carved out these little places on the internet so i know i've got lots of friends who homeschool who have kid neurodivergent kids who are really worried about what this ban will do to their children and already themselves are looking at ways around it you know to make sure that their kids can access the communities that they need and I did see somebody else raise a very valid point in that if we kids will get around this of course and Keir Starmer has been very clear that he knows that that that they will and if they if it's illegal and they're finding ways around it and then they see something really harmful on the platform they're probably less likely to tell an adult because they feel they've broken the law by accessing social media and so it kind of reduces that communication channel as well which um and they're more likely to see harmful stuff because social media platforms put things on there that that will be harmful for kids under the age of 16 you know there's no obligation anymore for them to make it safe for children under the age of 16 so they're more likely to see that harmful content so there's pros and cons right you know it's not yeah i don't think there is any solution to this that's perfect you know and i think they had to do something and i personally think on balance this was the right thing i know people will have their own arguments for it and i understand i'm also speaking from a kind of position of privilege here because my children don't use social media yet so there's nothing to take them away from my eldest is 10 and I'm actually really happy it's coming before she goes to secondary school because now there's there's no conversation now it's illegal mate you don't want to break the law you'll get arrested and go to prison so I've got that stick now um whereas you know I've got friends who have kids who are 14 and are doing fine in life and they have social media and they're doing okay they don't use social media heavily but now taking that away is going to be quite uncomfortable so I do feel like you know for the majority of kids who are actually probably like doing okay in life and social media is a part of their social activity now that's going to be gone for a lot of parents having to navigate that conversation is not going to be very easy but again there's no there was no easy way out of this and so I think on balance it's the right thing but I also feel like what I'm kind of very happy about is my 10 year old wanted a phone and we haven't given her a smartphone but most of her friends do have one i think what this band does is it you can say to your kids well your friends shouldn't have that they have that but they shouldn't because it's illegal and so even though we shouldn't rely on the government to give us arguments for how we parent like it does really give parents a stronger leg to stand on to be able to make the argument that their children shouldn't be on social media because if their friends are and you've got FOMO and you want one because your friends have got one your friends shouldn't have it because it's illegal and I think that positioning and that change is massive and I've seen that a lot on social media parents are saying thank you now it's given me a stronger argument but again I think we shouldn't rely on the government to dictate that for us and I think that does go down to a little bit around parenting styles and I think how much we have maybe gone so far the other way in being a little bit scared to upset our children we've spoken about this before but ultimately we are the parents and we need to make tough decisions and our kids aren't going to like it right now yeah but hopefully in 20 years time they might come back and give us some flowers and say thank you mom and dad like i really appreciate what you did 20 years ago when you took me off x um but that's like a couple decades away but you know that's that's that's the way it is and so i think it's a good thing we've got another year i think it's spring 2027 yeah that's actually going to be coming to play so we've got time to figure it out um but yeah big news massive news i mean i was quite shocked to learn that the evidence shows it doesn't improve the mental health of kids if you've been on social media i found that really interesting obviously i think the benefits will be it will give them a bit more time back because that infinite scroll we know the doom scroll we all know the doom scroll and how much time can be lost from just mindlessly putting your finger down a screen um and so giving them that time back will have a benefit but we still will have issues of uh you know hard right rhetorics grabbing our children and uh that that's not going to go away with this ban there's still a lot more we need to do.

21:39You thought this was your run club era. Turns out, it was more of a thinking about run club era. The good news? Someone's marathon training is about to start. Sell your workout gear on Depop. Just snap a few photos and we'll take care of the rest. They get their race day fit and you get a payout for trying. Someone on Depop wants what you've got. Start selling now. Deepop where taste recognises taste

22:11Elliott:what else have you been seeing anything else on the internet that's tickled your fancy this week I'll just kind of be watching football on the sofa Jodie and working and working and doing school runs and cooking dinner if I won the lottery tomorrow I'm getting a chef because I spend way too much time like cleaning chicken and the oven and cooking i'm fed up of it i don't want to cook again in my life no i agree with you that is the hell i will die on mate being in charge of food is the worst thing possible you because it it plagues every second you're right like i reckon about a quarter of my brain because i do all the cooking about a quarter of my brain is dedicated to food because you have to know what food you've got in you have to know what you're cooking that evening you have to know what's for lunch you have to like they're endless mindless and when the kids my kids in the morning will ask me what's for dinner that evening i'm like leave me alone i saw a really fascinating thing this week that i'd love to talk about which was from the care gap so you can find them on instagram they're just called care gap and they were talking about how girls outperform boys in reading across all 79 countries surveyed by the OECD's PISA 2022.

23:38Elliott:Not most countries, every single one of them. And the gap is growing. And they believe, and they set out this argument really well, that the reason for this is that girls have been given responsibility from childhood. So they've been given responsibilities like cooking, like we just talked about. Cleaning, caring for siblings. and that responsibility builds exactly the skills that academic achievement now demands. Executive function, time management, emotional regulation and empathy. So they go through a few studies which are really interesting. Harvard Grant study, boys given meaningful domestic responsibility from childhood show higher executive function, empathy and self-regulation in adulthood.

24:31Elliott:The Niobe Way NYU study found that boys' emotional intelligence at 10 is comparable to girls. The divergence happens at 13 when culture excuses them from relational responsibility. Ekimundo found that boys raised in households where fathers share care work show significantly better social and academic outcomes. And the OECD PISA report found that countries with more equal domestic labour show smaller gender gaps in academic performance. The care gap and the classroom gap are the same gap. absolutely blew my mindness essentially in summary we need to start giving boys more to do in the home and we've talked about this before in the podcast haven't we we had ricardo on who talked about how he had to do a lot to help out because his stepdad is blind um we've talked to gavin morgan from growing together who paired older teenage boys with uh younger children to do childcare and to look after them and he said the results were completely transformative for their mental health, for their behaviour.

25:55Elliott:So this really cements some of the stuff I think has been a running theme for us on the podcast and as a mother of two boys, let me tell you Elliot Ray, it is really bloody hard to get them to do anything in the house. It's so difficult. My 12 year old is the you know i love him but he is incredibly lazy and i've tried bribing him with money i've tried everything he's not interested he's like well i don't need your money so so getting him to ask different stuff is really difficult we actually have to bed tonight we're going to have the conversation with him where we say right you are in charge of the recycling and you have to get up for a walk every morning you have to get up and take the dog for a walk every That's a non-negotiable.

26:44Elliott:If you don't do it, you lose your phone. Whether, you know, some people would argue punishing them by losing their phone is a really bad thing. I don't know what else to do. He'll be upset if he loses his phone. You go nuclear, your phone's going. Damn. But it's so hard to get boys to do. I know every mum of boys that I speak to says the same thing, that it's such a slog and such a struggle. I think there's an interesting like cultural angle to this as well. So I know a lot of African and Asian cultures, the eldest girl will take on a lot of responsibility for her siblings. And there's loads of conversation when you meet women who were the oldest sibling, how they just had to do everything.

27:30They were basically the third parent in the family. And if the dad was working a lot and the mum was mainly at home, they were the second parent. They're the one that had to look after food for everyone. bathe their siblings put their siblings to bed and you find often when they kind of leave the house they get old enough to leave the house they're like I'm gone guys good luck I'm out okay I had 18 years of looking after you guys and I'm finished with it and they go and live their life and they go and travel and they don't want to take on those responsibilities which I get and so my wife's from Zimbabwe and when we go over there it is the complete opposite to England I think maybe I want to be sensitive because it's a cultural thing and it's a little bit problematic I'm not going to lie but when you go over there the children will basically serve the adults so you know you're sitting down as a visitor from the UK uncles and aunties are there the kids who are literally from 6, 7 to 12, 13 they're making the food they're serving you they're bringing over water to wash your hands they're getting everything ready they're cleaning up they are basically serving the adults yeah and again that's maybe extreme there's problematic things in there but what i think we've done in the uk is we have not given our children especially our boys enough responsibility we've not believed that they can actually complete tasks and we haven't trusted them to say you can do this and you should do this am i going to make you do this i think we've got to the point where we want to do everything for them because partly it's easier for us because of time um but again that friction of they're not going to like it so we don't want to upset them but yeah you go to africa you go to asia there's kids primary school doing like adult jobs around the house they are very capable if we give them the opportunity also i've noticed with our kids now so on sunday they went to the park for the first time by themselves 12s 10 and 3 and so I said to my eldest you got a key the park's around around the corner look after your sister keep her alive keep yourself alive be careful when you cross the road but have a great time and when she came back she was beaming she was so happy she let herself in the youngest came through bouncing through the door took her shoes off and she was talking about how like how good she felt with the responsibility of looking after her little sister also it gave me and antonia break so win win all round but it was that kind of like you know should we do it 10 and 3 should we should be yeah we should she'll be fine um again she's i got two daughters two two girls and i definitely agree with that research there i think as a society we are way more likely to to give that responsibility to to girls you know that gender stereotyping is within all of us we are products of our environment and i think we have to unlearn the the programming that we have been taught in this patriarchal society and that can be quite difficult because we may think we're progressive people but i think that still lives within us as i question that and making sure we say no actually our boys can cook and clean they can give the younger siblings a bath they can do all the stuff that the girls are doing not just because it helps us and helps them but actually now we know the research and the evidence is going to be a really good thing for their development and how they do at school so yeah i think i think there's a lot there's a big

30:59Elliott:challenge for us to do when you were saying the cultural difference in zimbabwe of kids serving the adults i mean i kind of like that actually i'm all over this alia i am yeah my kids go go go and live in zimbabwe for a year your kids will come back and they'll be making like what do you for dinner mum yeah lasagna we felt oh yes can you imagine oh that'll take a quarter my brain would be removed that would be amazing remember when we had max dickens on the author of billy no mates and he said that that he and his sister's parents used to have dinner parties all the time and he and his sister had to serve people and they had to be the entertainment yeah so these His parents would suddenly be like, Max, tell us a story.

31:51Elliott:And so he'd have to suddenly perform in front of all of these adults. And he believed that that gave him some really great skills that he's used later in life. So I'm on this, Elliot. I will. I'll report back. My youngest isn't so much of a problem. He'll do stuff and he will do stuff. I mean, pocket money. He'll do it in return for pocket money. He won't do it. But I think that's okay. then he's learning that you have to work for money um and so you know it's less of an argument with him but the eldest is just such a nightmare so i'll report back on how it goes the threatening his phone and whether we actually see him it's going to take a lot of nagging but whether we actually see him taking some responsibility for some things in the house rather than this morning i watched him try and get his shoes for school and he just like pick because he couldn't find his shoes he just threw all the other shoes over like into the corridor to try and then found his shoes put his shoes on and off he went to school i was like great thanks for that yeah but you know what like in on the point of obviously child development is important but also the stress on the parents and coming having this conversation a lot is parenting harder now than it was in our parents generation and it's hard to tell because obviously they didn't have deliveroo yeah they didn't have uber eats so of course like i get it there was things that were harder in their time especially for my parents immigrants you know they dealt with some things that i don't deal with i hear that but i do feel like parenting has got a little bit more tricky and i think part of it is that we are doing we're doing everything for our kids like and also child care really expensive also paternity leave is shit also also also you know but the fact in the household where i think in general we have we have come away from giving our kids responsibility and freedom as well like freedom to go out i saw a really interesting post from super nanny here on instagram and she was saying look i don't want to offend anyone but the busyness of modern life is meaning that we are doing stuff for our children rather than taking the time to teach them which actually takes longer because in that moment I have to teach you how to do this thing which is going to take an hour or I could just do it myself which might take 15 minutes yeah and so we'd rather just like do it for them do it for them do it for them but she was saying you know that's part of the reason why there's kids who are you know seven years old who don't know how to brush their teeth properly there's kids going to primary school who are not potty trained um there are children who are 14 years old who have never got a bus or a train and can't make their own way to school and you know all these sort of things i don't want to villainize parents or make make it make us feel bad of course but i do think there's something in that in regards to just the pressure of modern life means that we are doing so so so much yeah and the easier thing is just to do it ourselves yeah rather than saying actually you do it it's going to take me longer to teach you but in the long run it'll make all of our lives easier so yeah the care gap says that the solution they've found give boys sustained curriculum girls have always had start at home tonight first thing they say is set the table cook dinner hold the baby responsibility is not a burden it is preparation the boy who does it at home arrives at adulthood already trained second thing they say is fathers modeling care the single most powerful signal available to boys more powerful than any school program 91 of fathers say caregiving is the most meaningful part of their life boys are watching the third thing they say is care education in schools i I think this is really interesting.

35:54Elliott:Cooking, first aid, child care basics. My kids do cooking at school, but they don't do child care basics or first aid. That is a life skill for boys and girls without distinction. Not home economics for girls, life skills for everyone else. And finally, policy that supports shared care. So obviously, we talk about this all the time. but ensuring that men are enabled to take time out to care for their children in those early days makes such a big difference to all of us yeah it does it does and we need to build the systems that support dads to be equal parents we know they want to do more working families research showed that 74 percent of dads research want to be more equal caregivers so it's about time we change the system and the processes to enable them to be present at home um and i see it right i see with my kids.

36:51I hope that they will grow up and if they do get married to men and they have relationships with men, they will expect their partners to do an equal load. It won't be new. It won't be different. It will be what they expect because they've seen it at home and I think that is the most powerful thing. Like, showing them. Not just telling them, showing them what to do.

37:13Elliott:And they'll be buying them for flowers for Father's Day. Yes! Flowers for Father's Day. thank you everybody for listening i've i've really enjoyed talking about the social media brand and the care gap that was i think they're both two really interesting topics i think uh that there's lots of positive things on the horizon for us i feel like things are slowly changing the government is starting to get the memo that there's some big problems here and obviously it takes time to tackle those big problems but it does feel to me like they're making some steps in the right direction. Well said. Well said, everyone.

37:56Take care. See you next week. Bye. See ya.

38:10Elliott:Every act of change begins with a neighbor. When neighbors connect through the Feeding America network, small actions ripple into lasting impact. Feeding America, led by neighbors. Give now to end hunger at feedingamerica.org.

38:49Elliott:equivalent to$15 per month required. Intro rate first three months only, then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. See full terms at mintmobile.com.