Series 3 BABY! Back to School, Back to Boyhood

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1:01hello hello hello welcome back to the to be a boy podcast with me elliot ray and me jolly and we are back for season three we made it to season we deserve a pack pat on the back

1:17Elliott:i thought you were going to say we deserve a packed lunch then i mean we deserve that would be nice too um but yes season three of the podcast we are so excited to be back can't wait summer how was your summer jolie we are we are back in september now what's been going on for you i mean it's flown by hasn't it well it's sort of flown by and also not flown by you know so it's quite nice to have the kids back at school but it's also lovely to spend time with them obviously and our summer was it was great it was really good we spent we were in France we went to Ibiza we didn't see the final boss which I was quite gutted about but we did go to the part of Ibiza where everybody's naked on the beach and all of the men have no hair on them which is when they're naked in particular is is quite a sight um and you know spent some time in Bournemouth and did some lovely things what about you lovely i'm not as exciting as that normally i go to ibfa that is my spiritual home i'm normally there every year and this is the first year in five years we didn't go to ibfa but we went to wales to pembrokeshire so similar and it was really funny because i wasn't really looking forward to it i was like if i go all the way to wales and it's raining i'm gonna be really pissed off but we had the best time it was incredible we went to this resort called bluestone shout out bluestone it was incredible so it's this place where it's like this big community they have these lodges that you hire as a family and they have these amazing kind of centers where you do swimming and soft play and all these archery and bowling all these activities and the best thing about it they give you like a little golf cart buggy to ride around in that go six miles per hour so all the family is getting this buggy and you drive it up and down the hills to go to check your friends in other villages or to go to get some lunch and for someone like me that is just entertainment did you feel like a happy gilmore i loved it seriously it was so like a little boy racer in my six mile per hour cart buggy but the best thing about it was that it was so safe and you trusted everyone there everyone there was with their family and it just felt so secure so we let our kids out to roam and they had bikes and we said go out you know come back when you're ready and that was actually an incredible experience for our eldest to be able to just roam and be free and on the way back on the motorway I was so happy that we had that experience but I was also sad because I thought you know that's how it should be we should be allowed to do that we should be able to do that you know so yeah it was it was really really special it's an amazing summer so you were kind of working right you part holiday part work thing where I thought right I'm going to take August off now that I've left pregnant and screen I feel like I deserve a month to recover so I'm going to take August off and then just before August I decided to set up a new business so the notion of having August off kind of fizzled before my very eyes i was balancing setting up a new business with the various trips that we booked away i mean i'm very lucky i'm not complaining we got an opportunity to spend some great time together and we went to some amazing places so i've launched a company called growth spurt which after doing pregnant and screw for 10 years i realized that what kept coming up time and time again was when parents go back to work after parental leave that's where it all goes wrong and again our research showed that one in four mothers leave their job when they go back to parental leave go back to work from parental leave because they don't get the support that they need so my aim is to fix that what I'm calling the transition gap because it's so fixable it's not that difficult actually to get that right I don't think employers are equipped to deal with the mental whiplash that parents experience when they're coming back to work but I I think that with all my experience, after spending 10 years working with parents, I think I really do know what they need at that point and that I can provide it.

5:30Elliott:So I have created a platform where there are workshops and there's peer-to-peer support and there's live events. And it's basically the NCT for parents coming back to work. So it's that other side of the challenging transition, knotty, horrid period. and I'm really excited about it and it's for for men and for women because as we both know dads also experience real challenges during that period so I'm really amazing congratulations thank you round of applause that's now that's amazing Jolie and so you had mum's equal payday on the 1st of September tell us about that we crunched some data from the Office of National statistics and we found that shockingly mothers on average are paid 33 percent less than dads over the course of a week that's the mean pay gap it doesn't account for the many many mothers in particular that are out of work during due to caring responsibilities we know four times the amount of women are out of work because of caring than men um the data cannot we couldn't get the data broken down to look at different demographics so we know that if you are disabled if you have a disabled child if you are black if you are asian you are much more likely to experience a significant pay penalty when you have a child but sadly we couldn't the office of national statistics just didn't have good enough data to break it down but we so we thought how can we make people aware of this and so mum's equal pay day was on the 1st of september from that point mum stopped being paid compared to dads.

7:06Elliott:And the aim is to show the government that if they fix, as we both know, the parental leave system so that dads are enabled to take time out to care for their kids, the childcare system, if we have better flexible working rights, and if we have better gender pay gap reporting from companies, then we can fix that so that women are enabled to have careers in a family. Amazing. And I've seen it all over the news, in the media, you're on Women's Hour. um no I'm so happy for you Joey that's incredible work and yeah long live growth spurt you've got the working dad summit coming up I've got the summit coming up yeah you know like when you have an idea and it starts like a little seed and then just becomes like this massive thing so there's so much momentum about it and the time is now really we need to have a place for the national conversation about how we support working dads as you mentioned supporting dads to be equal parents, to parent out loud in the workplace, to take their full parental leave available, to work flexibly, to be loud and proud about their caring responsibilities at work, equal parents at home is absolutely critical to the motherhood penalty, the wellbeing of both parents, to outcomes from our children.

8:17So we are hosting the Working Dad Summit, which is going to bring together thousands of people to have this conversation. So on the 23rd of September, Tuesday 23rd of September sponsored by Universal Music Group and it's going to be incredible and a massive celebration also a very poignant conversation and a very emotional conversation about where we are now and where we want to get to so of course we have businesses represented and we have speakers from the likes of Microsoft and Deloitte and Eon and Universal Music they all have equal parental leave policies. So they'll be talking about kind of what they've done and how they facilitate dads taking six months paid paternity leave off from work, which is incredible.

9:05We have dads who are going to be sharing their stories around caring for their children with autism and neurodiversity, gay dads, adoptive dads, dads who are co-parenting, dads who are fathers, but also caring for their aging and sick parents. So that's going to be really, really emotional, you know, hearing from dads and their real stories every day, what it's like to be a fully involved, active, working dad. And of course we have government representation. We have Stella Creasy. We love Stella. Stella's going to be there doing a joint duo keynote with Baroness Penn around what we do around this parental leave review and how we fix the system from a legislative policy level to make sure all families are supported with at least a minimum of six weeks paid paternity leave but hopefully better than that of course we have to be a boy I'm going to be interviewing Jolie about all sorts I hope you're not going to ask me hard questions I'm going to ask you some very hard questions okay and I'm going to throw in some surprises as well brace yourself that's going to be an incredible conversation and then we're going to have drinks and a party of course because anything that I organize has to come with drinks and a party of course hey Elliot here register on workingdadssummit.com and join the community over on LinkedIn 3rd of September online 1 p.m to 5 p.m completely free just search for parenting

10:36Elliott:out loud right back to the show like well I can't wait for all of it and I've heard so many people talking about it this must be the world's first working dad summit is it not it is it is I thought it was the UK's I thought there was one in the White House organized by Barack Obama but that was actually a working families summit so I think this is the world's first working dads summit check you out I know so my summer was crazy obviously in between family time which was really really nice i was doing a lot of the a lot of the work a lot of the organization but i think we're nearly there yet i feel quite relaxed about it so yeah i'm just super super excited we're back right september is here schools have gone back my eldest went back to school year five yesterday which was really really nice um she woke up at six got dressed in two and a half minutes which is unheard of i know i was like wake up i went downstairs and she pretty much came down like followed me down dressed she must be excited to go back to school she's very excited yeah which we are very happy about you know very happy about but you jolie your son started secondary school this week right yeah wednesday when he started secondary school and i think i was way more nervous than he was he looked very smart in his tie and shirt and as he walked out the door i smothered him in kisses and shouted i love you down the street and um he has enjoyed it so far so far so good he's had a really good time you know you get these apps in secondary school so you can track their behavior like they're really basically absolutely everything it doesn't tell you how often they go to the toilet but basically everything else so how does that work the teachers have to input something into the app or yeah if they get so they get plus points or minus points So if it's bad behavior, you can see what their bad behavior is.

12:39Elliott:If they get detention, you know if they've had detention. Tracks everything. So far, 100 % good behavior, but we are only on day three. There is time yet. So you can't come home and lie? Because I would come home to my parents and just make up what happened. So you can't do that anymore. Like in our day, it'd be a letter home, wouldn't it? If it was serious, yeah. But now they can come home and you can see exactly. That's crazy. Yeah, you can see it. It's all just available on an app for you to see. So I really, I found Wednesday really difficult, actually. I was really on an emotional knife edge all day.

13:13Elliott:And I think it was just because firsts, I think firsts with Kit, every first of something feels a lot. And it feels like, you know, the older they get, the more they're slipping away. And I was having my own emotional crisis over this, midlife crisis of soon he's going to be leaving home and then what do I do? and obviously heading into adolescence as we've talked about is a big deal I just wanted to read this lovely essay that um Leanne from 5050 Parliament shared with me yesterday that had me in tears and it's by a writer called Michaela Albertson He's gone. I've felt him being pulled away as if by a magnet for months A year maybe The centrifugal force of adolescence Whipping, gripping, swirling, clawing Pulling, pulling, pulling And I've tried so hard to keep him Want to play a game?

14:15Elliott:Bake something? Hey, let's watch the Great British Baking Show I'll play you in horse if you want I'm headed to Lowe's, wanna come? I'm getting plants for the garden. What would you like to plant this year? You pick. I've all but grabbed him by the shoulders and stared into those beautiful blue eyes and said, Honey, no. Just look here at me. Don't go. I've got you. You don't have to go. Keep your eyes on me. The same way I did when he broke his arm at five years old and after four weeks when it healed, they had to remove the pins. Look at me sweetheart, I'm here, just keep your eyes on my face, it will only hurt for a minute.

14:58Elliott:But lately he looks back at me coolly, narrows his eyes a little and says, nah, I'm good. Video games win, YouTube wins, basketball wins, friends win. we drove to soccer practice last week in silence silence this kid who spent the last 12 plus years talking in my ear asking questions telling me about school or friends or his teacher or whatever he's currently reading or what he heard on the news or his latest money-making scheme mom mom hey mom talking talking talking so much so that on rare occasions i'd actually have to ask for a few moments of quiet so I could drive. This kid who was once forever talking was silent.

15:44Elliott:You okay, I asked. Yeah. Silence wins. My husband downloaded some old videos from a broken iPad last week and we stumbled upon a video of my son at four that I had never seen before. I watched it five times. My heart ached because of how much I miss him. I miss little him. Little amazing, adorable hilarious precious constantly talking forever by my side him afterward I walked into the living room where he'd stationed himself in front of the tv and tried hard to keep tears from spilling over my cheeks as I said hey listen I want you to know how much I love you okay wishing I could have just one more day with little him but he only looked back at me blankly wondering if his mother had finally lost her mind of course I know what you're thinking I know this is what it's supposed to happen they are supposed to grow up and away and I know you're right this is my third time watching a boy of mine slip into whipping swirling vortex of adolescence and I know I know their return taller leaner deep voiced even more hilarious fun wiser wittier a little more grown up and still absolutely amazing but the letting go the change the silence the loss it hurts it hurts because I understand by this third time around that I will need to let go again and again and again high school and driving dating and friends college or career marriage and moving adolescence is simply the beginning of a thousand tiny goodbyes I will have to let him go because whatever version he was before is already gone beautiful it's tough because i feel like you know when our kids are young and they're babies and we're not sleeping it's so difficult because we're exhausted and it's all new and we're just shitting ourselves about keeping them alive and everything and there's a phase i'm talking personally here but the phase when they go through their kind of years of five six seven where it all kind of feels a little bit easier.

17:56They're in primary school. We know where they are. They can go to the toilet by themselves, wipe their own bum, feed themselves. And you feel like you're getting into some kind of, okay, we can do this. And then they get a little bit older and they become exposed to the world. And we're not prepared for that. And we're not trained for that. And we're not ready for it. And I don't feel like there's enough conversation about that part of our children growing up. And from what I've experienced having a near 10-year-old, this part is definitely a little bit harder than I thought it was going to be.

18:36And I think hearing that poem and just the idea of, you know, letting go, but being there, it's tough and it's hard and it's uncertain. How do you feel about it?

18:50Elliott:Yeah, I mean, I wrote about this when my eldest went to secondary school, just remembering the younger years where they fall asleep on you. They tell you they love you constantly. They are your world for years and years because they have to be because they rely on you so much. and then so there is a grief to letting go of that and finding yourself again because it's I mean I'm not parenting is not all roses by any stretch of the imagination but obviously you know you love them more than anything in the entire world and so having to set them free is is inevitably going to be very difficult but and I did think to myself I never thought about this from my mum's perspective ever when I was growing up and I remember my mum my mum dropped me off at university and I you know didn't even think about how it must feel for her that I was moving out of the house I went and had a little nap while she told me afterwards sat in the car and cried her eyes out and it just didn't even occur to me that she was going through something and she never mentioned And she just did it quietly off.

20:06Do you know, that's exactly what I was going to say. When you're growing up, you have, and why would you? Because you're a kid. But you have no idea. And I look back and I think, sorry, mum and dad. I'd just like to formally apologise, you know, because I just had no clue about the stress they were under. But at the same time, you know, we worry about our kids so much. And for them, God willing, they are just living their life and they're looking forward to the next thing and they're excited and they're growing up and it's new opportunities and it's new adventures and it's new things that they can do about their parents knowing everything.

20:44And they're entering their teenage years, which, fingers crossed, are normally some of our best, hopefully. You know, teenage years can be difficult, but they can be amazing. I had great fun when I was 15, 16, 17, exploring the world. You know, you get your first girlfriend, you start, you have your first drink, you make great friends and you find your hobbies, you find yourself. And those can be magical years. And I think for us parents, it's just trying to understand that, that yes, it can be worrying and difficult, but hopefully they are going to go into what they will hopefully see when they're older as some of the most magical and special years of their life.

21:26And it's a lot. It's a lot for us to come to terms with and deal with. And yeah, shout out all the parents who are going through adolescence and have kids growing up into secondary school. You know, we feel you, we hear you. And hopefully through this podcast, we can help to bring some insights and support for how you can navigate this period.

21:44Elliott:I mean, yeah, obviously, in a sense, it's a positive thing, because as we said before, otherwise you end up with a man child living with you, don't you? Exactly. No one wants that. No one wants that. so we have got this is the introduction to series 3 we want to tell you what we've got coming up and we've got some really great guests so firstly on the 16th of September we've got Tosha Skor who's going to be talking to us about anger and what to do if your kid is exhibiting quite serious levels of anger we've got Ben Hurst and Dan Guinness from Beyond Equality you tell us a bit about Beyond Equality great episode yeah so ben said something something about masculinity when we asked him about you know what does it mean to be a man and paraphrasing here but he said something to the words of masculinity and healthy masculinity is doing whatever you want as long as it causes no harm to yourself and no harm to others and i thought that was just such a profound way of putting a really complicated issue that was one of my favorite episodes um you know ben and dan they have the insight from the research and the strategic insight thinking and you know all that but they also they're working with boys every day in schools young teenage boys and so their unique insight into the everyday lives of what boys are feeling right now was invaluable must listen episode incredible i concur uh sarah okwell smith who's writing a book about raising boys uh richard reeves the don the don richard reeves joining us wow that conversation had my mind spinning for days afterwards he was so interesting and so insightful such a clever man you know you meet someone that's really clever and you're like you're smart you're a smart person yeah it's it It always amazes me how people can be so articulate and you can throw them whatever question and you can see them, their brain going through it.

23:55Elliott:And the words just come out so perfectly. And, you know, actually talking about that, then we have John Amici, who, I mean, I cried in that interview. So apologies for that. I told my wife about that conversation today, actually, because John says some stuff. I didn't expect the conversation to go that way. You know, we kind of went in different back roads, different alleyways. We went all around the houses. And he was very open and vulnerable about his life experience. And I think there's so much to learn from what he was saying. Incredible conversation. John went from a 17-year-old never playing basketball to six years later being in the NBA.

24:40Like, what the hell?

24:42Elliott:Yeah, I know. It's incredible. Don't show off, John. Do you know how many people want to be in the NBA? And he did it in six years from touching a bar. Like that in itself is a reason to listen to this episode. It is an incredible conversation. My partner's obsessed with him. So he kept poking. He said I'd invite him in. I didn't. Then we have Alex Blower, who's written a book called Lost Boys, How Education is Failing Young Working Class Boys, which is going to be really interesting. So really excited season coming up. Great conversations. We're going deeper, if that's possible. We're going deeper into the experience of boys and masculinity and men.

25:20And yeah, I'm just really excited. So thank you so much for the messages, the emails. We read all of them, the support, the reposting. We want to thank every single one of you that listens to this podcast. It's the reason why we keep going. We get motivated to have these conversations. And I really feel like the momentum is building. Something special is happening. and we're just happy that you're along for the ride. So stay with us to Be A Boy podcast.

25:48Elliott:See you on the other side. See you soon.

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