Skincare, Stand‑Up & Surviving Grief with Darren Harriott

21:53To Be A Boy Hosts:The only one he's been able to contact is my mum. And he's contacted my mum because he's got affairs and he doesn't trust anybody else in his life other than my mum to deal with his affairs. and I'm like you haven't spoken to this woman in 45 years so now and he's apologized to my mom and they have some form of a relationship that's going on but my mom I said this to my mom I said isn't there anything that you want to say to him and just say like this that the other and she was no if he wants to say you know that's up to him and I said did he apologize and she went well he said you know sorry I wasn't around and all that and I said yeah but did you like push him and she went no it's not my place to this is my mom talking about her dad who did that to her so i then was able to understand how me asking about my dad to her she she doesn't understand how she could she she's got that old school like i said old school sort of uh 70s attitude where it's just like no no no you know you respect your elders and all this sort of stuff still

22:57Darren Harriott:yeah yeah i think it was a very much attitude of like you just get on with it right and especially when we realize that our parents have have been through their own hard life themselves and so wherever that we go through it's it's their their reference point is hard really really hard and so they're they're they're hardened and they haven't got the emotional language that i think parents now give to their children but in that period of your life when you were 11 and your dad took his own life what what do you think you needed from the adults around you in that moment

23:29To Be A Boy Hosts:I learned this. So, okay. So just going back to my mom. My mom also didn't have, because the family was in Jamaica and her dad abandoned. She had no aunties, no uncles, nothing. Right? It was just her, my nan, brothers and sisters. That was it. Never had any grandparents. My mom has never met, none of my, they've never met any grandparents because it's all Jamaican, old. They had none of that. So I think to my mom, she was like, you've got uncles, aunties, cousins, and you've got grandma and you've got way more than we ever had. way more because my mom i thought about this the other day and went holy shit they just had about there was like seven of them and like six of them are brothers and sisters who were young that's it i had cousins and all this my mom's side of the family was was great so to her it was like no you you had way more than us why are we still doing this so that was one thing that i learned but what i needed and i got this from doing the father figuring show was there was a woman on there called Laverne Antrobus who was like a child therapist and I and just hearing her talk about what what you would have went through and how you felt and about my dad and she said this thing she said she said what what your dad what you needed was you you always wanted um your dad to be present because my dad was all over the place I never really knew what he was and she went no no no I don't just mean him there you need him like present in mind you actually just the simple things like your like your dad just to be like how's school what you're doing and i thought oh yeah just present there she said she talked about like how you know certain people certain moms and you know parents it's tough for them because they don't have the tools they don't have the tools available to to give you exactly what you need back then and your mom due to her own uh you know her own upbringing.

25:22To Be A Boy Hosts:She's the sort of person who likes to work. So my mum, I'm telling you, if my mum was to ever listen to this, she would go, bills are always paid. You didn't look like tramps at school. You always had a roof. There was always breakfast. You always had Christmas presents. That's my mum's thing. And I'm like, yeah, but how about some hugs? How about some emotional, a bit more? Because my mum is the hardest worker I've ever known. Always, always, always working. And I know that after my dad died, she would have put herself more into work just working i mean i was like a cleaner at the time or something she was always working and that was always my mom's thing that was her way of showing us love was through that saying her way she was doing her bit right she was doing 100 % yeah that was her way but i never felt like i could even properly talk to her about my dad the only time we've ever really truly had these sort of conversations was i was already nearly 30 at the time when we were able to finally talk about my dad and what was going on and my mom and i kind of thank her for this and again it's another reason why i did the show my mom's whole thing was she's never ever ever ever said one bad word about my dad ever never never said one bad word and there's a lot of bad there's a lot of bad stuff about my dad never because she knew that she he was a hero and my mom her big thing is you don't talk ill of the dead i never really heard her talk ill of her dad let alone she's not gonna talk about our dad so that was all that was always my mum but it took it took me years to get used to it but again i talked about how she didn't have any uncles and aunties my uncles aunties and my nan were the ones who sort of opened the gates for me to learn more about who my dad was who that my dad had mental health issues that my dad did this that my dad did that it was all from them so i was always very grateful but just going back see i'm very good at tangents i can just going back to your question.

27:14To Be A Boy Hosts:I honestly believe things would have been so much better for me if we had therapy as youngsters. If me, my mum, my brother had some form of therapy, I know it sounds simple, but it would have made things so much easier because I would have understood more from my mum. I never really understood my mum.

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29:20Darren Harriott:what do you think therapy or just open conversation how do you think it would

29:23To Be A Boy Hosts:impact i think i think it would have taught me much more about because okay when you are 11 obviously your mom might as well be 85 right my mom was my mom was 33 or something with these two kids she's young that's young right i would have wanted to hear more about my mom my dad's life my mom never because this is again this is one of the downsides when your mom doesn't want to talk about uh your dad because you feel like you're annoying i didn't know much about my mom my dad i didn't know much about history i didn't know much about what it was into my mom only found that on the podcast my mom said to me said me and your dad we went to see shabba ranks in 1993 at the birmingham 02 and i went mom you know i used to work at the birmingham 02 for seven years i had no idea you and my dad went there and she went oh you like to know stuff like that this is my mom she has not again because she doesn't really want to talk about it because it's all just this dark cloud so that was another thing that we just didn't have all i really wanted was just to know more about my dad know more about the stuff that he was into he wasn't really there that much because he was in and out of prison he had other kids he was on drugs he was selling drugs he was buying this and doing all that sort of stuff all i wanted was to know more about it also i knew that my mom would never tell me certain things or would hide certain things from me just because that's just that's just how she is and i feel like in if we're in some sort of therapy we could have gotten somewhere some form of an understanding we just let the time sort of just keep going by and you know oh it's your dad's birthday today and oh you know so sad and this sort of stuff but I want to know more I want to know more about the history of him these little things would have would have helped me quite a lot more I'm not saying it would have stopped me from you know being bad in my teenage years or whatever but I definitely feel like I feel like I felt like I could have spoke to my mum more about my dad which i definitely didn't feel like i could but so nobody talked to

31:21Darren Harriott:you about how you were really feeling when all of that happened not really no i mean because what

31:26To Be A Boy Hosts:would happen my family really stepped up my uncle stepped up they were buying us like all these games consoles and computers and we played games and stuff but like you know how you've got certain members of your family you don't really sit and have a deep conversation with that was my uncle but my uncle was there all the time but he was the fun uncle we didn't talk about my dad we played nintendo 64 we played playstation he took us here he took us there he was great he he was an absolute fucking savior and again i only managed to tell him this recently from the show how much he saved us because we were in a bad place and my mom was just at work all the time and when you're 12 i never felt like i could sit and talk to my mom about my dad like it was just it was still this honestly i think for at least a decade after my dad's death it was just like in the motion it was yeah it was just too it was too sad i mean i remember i went to because i i i wasn't really close with my dad's family um but i remember i went to my my dad's mom and um my dad's grandparents who were great right my grandparents and my girl and you know these people are proper religious people and it you walk in there i mean you you know if you've got Could you imagine your son kills himself in prison?

32:42To Be A Boy Hosts:Like, I'd never forget walking into that house and seeing them. I mean, you know, just like howling. And this is still months after he's died. And it's still this, there's pictures of him absolutely fucking everywhere. It's a room full of pictures of my dad. You'd think there was no more of a kid. It was just him everywhere. And it was just really sad. And you just go, well, I can't keep coming back here because this is just, it's just killing me as a young kid. and my auntie would tell me stuff. My auntie said, she said, listen, your dad didn't want to kill himself. He just wanted to kill the feeling.

33:17To Be A Boy Hosts:And again, that was something that really stuck with me that my auntie said, said, and you know, she's a social worker. She deals with people with mental health. And she just said, he didn't want to kill himself, but he wanted to kill the feeling. And then she also said, listen, I know it's horrible, but your dad just thought it was his time.

33:34Darren Harriott:Did that help?

33:35To Be A Boy Hosts:It helped me so much. it helped me it helped because again these i didn't get that many things said like that like my family was sad and we would have little chats but nobody was ever saying anything like that and my auntie maybe because she she also said to me she goes down on your mums she's just she doesn't have those tools i know you want her to give you all of the um uh all of the uh emotions around your dad and all the stories around your dad and be able to answer everything that you want to make you feel comfortable in all these different ways emotionally rather than just her paying for the bills paying the bills and stuff but she said down she said listen your mom has never had those tools she's and she's she said she's she's never really had those tools it's not how she operates right you because me your mom loves you but she you know you don't you don't necessarily say it she never you she said did your mom said that she loves you but not that i remember that's right yeah but you know she loves you right and i went yeah that's how she is because her mom was the same my auntie's mom it's how it is she just doesn't have those tools and my auntie saying all that really did help me i mean she told me that maybe when i was in high school um but you know what are you gonna do you know my dad killed himself in prison the family's around i can't i'm gonna do sit there and go hey my dad you know since you've been like since you've been

34:55Darren Harriott:talking more openly obviously done the dead that's done your own podcast since you've been more open talking about your grief and and what happened to your dad what have you learned about

35:06To Be A Boy Hosts:how men process grief well one of my good friends on the the podcast a guy called dan so um unfather figure we talked to my mom my uncle and two of my friends my friend dan he is a new friend i mean his dad was he has one of the saddest like dad stories i my dad you know killed himself in prison mental health issues his dad was a rapper wasn't really around got set on fire during a drug deal was trying to buy drugs set fire 80 % burns he then is in hospital with his dad and I thought about it because that's what everybody would do he said my dad wasn't really there before he got burnt but obviously he was in hospital so we spent all of our time in hospital with my dad and he said I became closer to my dad because obviously he's in hospital and he's 80 % burns his dad eventually gets out of hospital but obviously due to the burns becomes addicted to painkillers and drugs like that he then says when he's a teenager he sees his dad on the streets in south london with one of those masks on his face you know those protective burn masks and obviously if you see a guy with protective burn masks begging for money that's a scary sight and he would say i would hide from my dad i would be on the bus i would see my dad and i would hide from my dad and he said the last time he saw his dad he was hiding he hid from him because he saw him begging for money and then not long after then i think he died from i'm not sure what he died and and he is one of the most positive uplifting people i've ever met and he's just become a dad and he talks about his new son leo i mean his son's only a couple months old and you would never know that and he would and his whole thing is listen i can't let it stop me i can't let it I can't let it hold me back I have dreams I have goals I wish I wish my dad you know I wish I had a different situation with my dad but the way that he's talked to it and he had a bad he went through some bad moments sure in his in his younger years and some depression but I'm telling you I look at the way he is and I think wow because what I've been through is horrible but I said this when I said what you've been through is worse because you saw the entire you saw the entire thing and i know that it would weigh on my heart to know that like man i was just avoiding my dad and then my dad fast i never had any of that sort of stuff but dan is one of the most happiest most upbeat people i've ever met and all of even like my even with my mom i wouldn't have necessarily handled what happened with her dad the way that i would have but my mom you never heard her complain she would just get on with it she would just keep pushing forward my friend leon on the podcast, he found out that his dad wasn't his biological dad in an argument with his mom.

37:57To Be A Boy Hosts:And now he's got two boys. And again, he's just like, he's never met his biological dad. He changed his surname and everything. It was a whole thing. And he's never met his biological dad. But what he did was, he then looked up his surname because he's got quite a unique surname. Found out what was his dad's surname. Found out a load of half brothers and sisters. And then he connected with them. and now he's got like extended family but again has no never met his dad never interested in his biological dad anything like that but he took this pain that he had in his teenage years and then he's actually made him able to go out there and reconnect with these these other members of the family these other half brothers half sisters and he realized oh they also had the same thing they've never met their dad either and he's taught that and he's gone with it um i i think i mean it it sounds kind of simple, but I think for me, a lot of it is just, I have the attitude, and maybe I get this from a mom where I'm just like, could be worse.

38:57To Be A Boy Hosts:Like, I've got a great family. My mom was always there. You know, my nan, uncles, aunties, cousins. Like, I do have a great family. I mean, I had sort of a birthday get together because I've moved back home. I've just brought a house. A really nice house. Congratulations. Thank you. And, you know, I had my family. We could have done this in your house. I got lights, I got camera I got that I had all my family there and it was just like you know, shit it could be worse I would love my dad there is nothing in this world I want more than to just see my dad see, talk to my dad I think about my dad in a way, it's hard for me to daydream about my dad being alive because it's almost like trying to have your favorite drink and your favorite song and your favorite moment ever I can't imagine it because it's just it's something that it just sounds like uh you know as I've gotten older I'm like don't just wish stupid things like that but I to have him and to even uh my thing is I never think of happy thoughts with my dad I always think of we'd argue because to me that's like that's like a family I told my mom Listen, when I was about...

40:15Darren Harriott:You missed the argument.

40:16To Be A Boy Hosts:When I was 16 to about 25, 26, when I live in with my mum, my mum was my ups, man. I never liked my mum. I never got on with my mum because she's your mum. She's doing all the things mums do. Tidy up, do this. Why are you doing this? Who's this? What are you doing? I wanted to bring girls to the house. Oh, what time does she finish work? My mum was just in my way. Like now, my mum's never been a better person to me. she's like my favorite i can phone my mom and talk to my mom about everything i could never do that even like when i lived there i could never do that when she was there because it was just we were just ups man and like i think about that with my dad if my dad was alive like we would argue and we would you know but i know that if he was alive my entire life would be different i wouldn't do comedy for one no way i don't think i would i think i would have had a desire maybe but even me trying to think of doing anything other as a career that's not comedy because my dad is alive to me it just sounds kind of ridiculous because you go yeah well him being alive what's i gotta do with your career but 100 i would i probably wouldn't be doing stand-up comedy because the first time i did a gig it was uh december 2006 yeah six or yeah six i was 18 and um i was looking at a picture of my dad on my phone before I went on stage I was outside I think I was teary-eyed I had a picture of my dad on my phone and I was just looking at it and then I went on stage and did my first ever comedy gig and then 18 years later here I am and I don't and I think about it and I go if he was alive that I just don't think I would have done it yeah do you think that was a motivator for you

42:03Darren Harriott:doing comedy though were you just funny and somebody was like go do comedy or was there And more to it, was it like the fact that you saw it's the last thing you would have done if your dad had still been alive? Did that motivate you?

42:15To Be A Boy Hosts:I think my dad's death motivated me to... I think I just had so many insecurities when I was younger. Whether it was weight, whether it was teeth, whether it was poor. It was all the... Your teeth look good, mate. Well, this is what happens when you have a teeth thing. You end up spending a lot of money on getting your teeth through. Oh my day, white fillings, braces, shave down, let's go. Braces at night, I could talk all day. Was that Turkey? Did you get to Turkey or was it Harley Street? No, this is natural, but I'm telling you, as soon as one of these bad boys goes out, I am on that first flight to Turkey, I'm telling you.

42:51To Be A Boy Hosts:If I cared about my hair, I would have one of those pasty hair lines. I say, when my hair line goes, I'm going to Turkey. I don't blame you, dude. Go get that. I'm going to Turkey, right? Listen, get that men's BBL ASAP. Get it going. Uh, so like, yeah, he was, I think I was, I was just, you know, when you're young and you're, you're, you're very insecure. I was super, super insecure of loads of different things. And I think comedy was definitely a way, it was either comedy or being tough or being intimidating. Those were the sort of two ways. And I think, um, I think definitely that with comedy, it, it, it, it, it's a hundred percent because of now it's, it's, it's more not so like you just, I'm just, you just naturally quite funny and you just get used to it.

43:37To Be A Boy Hosts:but in terms of that starting off and getting into it yeah because what i needed at that so what happened was i went to school high school did the five years whatever started college absolutely hated college oh thought i would like college hey it's school but non-uniform and there's new people this is fun hated it didn't realize that i only went to school because you kind of had to and then once i'm sitting down and i'm trying to i did draw i did like a btech drama course which i still liked the only downside was i didn't enjoy any of the coursework right coursework all that not for me and then i remember one lesson was like you had to do cat poses and you're like meow and i was like am i really like george galloway one george george galloway you had to lick the milk out the palm of pete burns or whatever it was right yeah you it was literally you one lesson was this cat pose and i was like no what am i doing so then i dropped out in December right I did three months dropped out in December and then I came back the following year and um maybe it was 2007 I started comedy actually whatever and then I came back the following year right so I did nine months of just working started again in September because in my head I'm like you've got to go to college man you've got to go to college you've got to do everybody goes to college what do you do and I did an A-level A-level which is the worst if I'm not willing to do drama coursework, do you think I can do sociology or psychology?

45:05To Be A Boy Hosts:Nah. However, I saw a flyer for like a, you know, music, dance, comedy, and I'd been watching loads of comedy up until then. And I'd always kind of had an idea of potentially trying stand-up comedy when I was about 15 after watching loads of live at the Apollos and stuff. And then, yeah, and then I saw this flyer and then I wait till I was 18 and I gave it a go. And then ever since then, what had happened was I was so depressed once I dropped out of college the first time, because I realized what had happened was my dad died March 2000, started September 2000. When I left in May 2005, I had not thought too much about my dad due to just school and, you know, all those feelings.

45:51To Be A Boy Hosts:And then once I was left to my own devices that's when the depression really hit me and i was really sad didn't know what to do didn't know what i wanted to do with my life at all and then i just saw this sort of flyer thing for stand up to have a go at stand up and uh and i did and i've always said it it it's it's just like a mild antidepressant for for 18 years it's it's it's it's almost like a it becomes kind of like a vocation you just sort of stay so busy with it and so and you know over the years with my career and through like my agent and agents and whatnot it becomes kind of multifaceted so you end up doing like loads of different things but for the first couple of years it is just about purely doing stand-up but again all of that all of that it all comes from my dad like if my dad was alive would I be bothered doing that would I I wouldn't have felt depressed about my life and my dad when i dropped out of college it's i it's all because of that so i don't know i i don't think i would be doing stand-up comedy if he was alive it's a key thing for me i guess you i mean

46:57Darren Harriott:you've done amazingly well right so yeah you're on what the week you do it you're on tv it's worked out it's worked out it's worked out for now so you're very open and like from my experience i like i work with a lot of men a lot of dads who do men's circles and stuff like that and like a lot of a lot of men are not like you in regards to being so open with the fact they struggle with mental health and suicidal thoughts and all that sort of stuff what why do you think that is why do you think men struggle to be open about the challenges that they have men struggle

47:28To Be A Boy Hosts:because it's not it's listen i couldn't talk about my weight to people because i was embarrassed my weight has been a massive thing for me my entire life but i never felt like i could I could ever talk about it because men don't talk about weight. You think I sit in rooms and talk about skincare with other dudes? You do hear. I do hear. But if it comes up, I will now because I'm like, no, I'm freaking proud of it. You know how much this shit costs? Tell them Elliot says I have to talk about my skincare routine. I'm like, SP50. It's never really been something that you would really do. men in general, there is this, obviously there's an old school sense of masculinity and what a man is supposed to be.

48:09To Be A Boy Hosts:We all know the old school term, stoic. You've gotta be stoic. You know, I learned this through my show where, they also talked about how fathers are often pretty much just seen as a disciplinarian. You know, they're the one who, when the kid comes out, oh, you wait till your dad gets home, that sort of thing. That is the standard for dads. Whereas, you know, that's not the way it should be. That's not the way it should be. But in my family, that was what you would see. That was what you would see. You know, even my uncle would be like, oh, God, his mom's just going to let him do this, that, that.

48:45To Be A Boy Hosts:But he's the one who's like, no, you're not doing that. And that was always the standard with men. I think things are getting better. I think men are being much more open. And men are much more honest about their feelings, what they want, who they are. Because let's be honest, look at how the suicide rate is. The suicide rate is absolutely mental. I also wish another thing that I think is playing a part. I also think testosterone. That's something that I've been looking into. So I honestly believe one factor of many factors, why men are so much more likely to be depressed and so much likely to commit suicide as they get older is due to testosterone levels dropping.

49:26To Be A Boy Hosts:and it's something that I've, because I like to read up on bodybuilding and fitness and all this sort of stuff. Again, it just comes from the fat kid stuff. And, you know, when you see how your testosterone drops every year, when you're 30, it just gets lower and lower. You feel tired of your sex drive, concentration, all of this sort of stuff. It's just, it's natural. It's just that completely natural thing that happens with all men, but it's never really addressed. It's never really something that's put up. And I believe that that is another way. But again, You know, I don't mind talking about it.

49:57To Be A Boy Hosts:I'll go, I'll tell you what, my testosterone is low, dude. Oh, I used to be in a gym for three hours. Now I'm like half an hour and I'm ready to go. But again, you can't walk into a room talking about testosterone levels. That's crazy.

50:11Darren Harriott:Can you get a testosterone gel? Can men get that?

50:14To Be A Boy Hosts:Yeah, so you can get shots and gel. But again, it's all cost. You know, there's different levels to it. So what I think the problem is, and again, this is like a whole Ozempic Munjaro thing, which is another thing that I absolutely hate, is you can easily become just like addicted to it, like essentially. So ideally, if you're going to take testosterone, you want it to bring your levels. So first of all, you have to do is you have to go get tested, see how low they are, whether they're, you know, really. Because some men have really, really low testosterone and they don't even know it. They just live their lives as they are, and they don't know that their testosterone is even lower than it should be.

50:51To Be A Boy Hosts:What you would do is you would get a couple of CCs to bring it up to, like, normal levels or, you know, better levels and stuff like that. But the problem is, you know, you do that, and then you go, oh, man, I feel like I'm 21 again. And then you're like, more, more, more. I like that band noise. That is a band noise. Your jaw's just hanging out. You know, but I do believe that the drop in testosterone is a key thing to why a lot of men are depressed because it's one of those things that you don't know. Because, you know, we've all spoke to people who get really sad and get quite depressed and you ask them, why are you depressed?

51:25To Be A Boy Hosts:And they go, you can't be bothered. Most people don't even know. They just feel so low. Their whole energy's low. Everything about them's low. Your libido's low. It's, you know, it can't be helped.

51:39Darren Harriott:Like a male menopause, basically.

51:41To Be A Boy Hosts:It's like a male male. And it just keeps on going.

51:47Darren Harriott:Because we get testosterone. As part of HRT, you get given testosterone often. But you have to say it's because your sex drive is low in order to get it. You can't just say I need testosterone because my testosterone is low and I need a pickup. It's because you're not having sex with your mother.

52:02To Be A Boy Hosts:Coming to your masculinity question, how many men are going to walk in and go, my sex drive is low? That's another thing that a lot of men are not. like erectile dysfunction we never talk about. Erectile dysfunction yeah and not not because again a lot of men will will have erectile dysfunction and some of it will be from low testosterone but they'll just try and take one of those mad pills. What we do on this podcast we need 10 press ups at the end just to get out just to throw it up. I could do 10 press ups. I got you man.

52:30Darren Harriott:So in terms of so this is really interesting and like for the people listening for the men listening particularly what would you say to them in regards to if a man is like finding life difficult is struggling um like what would you say to those people that are thinking listening to you and thinking i've been i've been there i'm there now it sounds cheesy but i can only talk

52:54To Be A Boy Hosts:about what what kind of works for me have a look at your diet first of all because most people are eating really bad and if you consistently eating really bad like i don't know it sounds bad but if you add more fruit and vegetables to your meal honestly it does make you feel better you do start to feel slightly better um i would say as well one thing that helps me is to get out a little bit more if you can and i don't just mean for work like maybe go for walks in the park maybe try something you've never done i i was salsa dancing for like three four years man out there like i i i'm a big fan of dancing i'll go and do some that do a bit of salsa do a bit of bachata I like dancing.

53:36To Be A Boy Hosts:That is something that was completely out of my comfort zone. And again, how many men are really going, hey man, my hips don't lie. It's not really that sort of a thing, but I wanted to do something that was different and out there and just try and find this almost, I think because when you do comedy, everything that you do is kind of put into the prospect of comedy. So people are like, if I had to fly a helicopter or something, I'd be like, oh, you know what you should do? You should fly a helicopter to your gig and record it and everything just becomes a part of comedy. Whereas with dancing, it's just this thing that I do that I have no hopes or dreams.

54:13To Be A Boy Hosts:I'm not trying to get on Strictly. I'm not trying to do any of this. I'm not even trying to, I'm not trying to do anything really with it that much. Like I will talk about it on stage a bit, but I'm not trying to do anything. I'm not trying to be the best dancer in the world. I'm just doing it because I think it's fun and I can take my time.

54:28Darren Harriott:So if the BBC said, Darren, can you come on Strictly? Are you going to, you'll say no.

54:32To Be A Boy Hosts:um but and this and my only problem is it's two things one people would think i'm a pro and it's like you've never seen me dance i am not a pro i don't really do ballroom as well and two it takes away what i enjoy about it because you're then it there my thing is i don't want any bad memories with it i don't want to be like i don't want to go to a salsa class and be like man i remember when i got four jeez that was brutal and craig said i've got like two left feet and he oh man yeah You're terrible, darling. I don't need that in this thing that I find quite fun and interesting and different. And it's been a whole new lease of life for me.

55:08To Be A Boy Hosts:I would say to a lot of men, you've got to get out there and try and do something. If you can, there are so many like meetups. I know it's weird because we're men and it's the same reason why like, what's that app called? Is it Bumble or one of those dating apps that's got a friend section on? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. It's called Bumble Friends. It's a dating app, but they've gone, you know what? There's lots of women here. Let's make it friends. And people make friends. I've been at gigs before and there were two women who go, this is my best friend. How do you meet? We met on, you know, Bumble Friends.

55:38To Be A Boy Hosts:We both had the same things in common. We met up with best friends. How many men are doing that? Really? They're not. They're probably not putting, oh, I love F1 and bodybuilding and another guy going, what are you trying to fuck me or something? Men will have that attitude. Have you made friends

55:52Darren Harriott:in your adult life? Like recently?

55:54To Be A Boy Hosts:You know why I've made friends in my adult life? I do comedy. I'm kind of, I've made friends through dance and I've made friends through just my career in comedy but even that I don't think is enough I actually think that I I've done quite a lot of holidays quite a lot of solo trips where I've made friends as well but I do think I need to go out and make more friends because that is I'm telling you that is the hardest thing as an adult because you think about your friends you make most your friends from school uni education most of them from uh then it's like work related and then that's about it other than some random party encounter or something we can be a friend if you like this is listen guys come and join i'm volunteering you here to be darren's friend now you're already like i'm at it i am yeah my friend quote is i've got i've got a lot on actually is that the time

56:52Darren Harriott:this has been amazing thank you for your honesty so your podcast farmer figuring Talk to us about what it is and what you want it to achieve.

56:59To Be A Boy Hosts:The show Father Figuring is five parts, 15 minutes each episode. It aired Monday to Friday. It was on BBC Radio 4. It's now on BBC Sounds, Father Figuring. I talked to, obviously, my mum, my uncle who's got kids, my two friends, Dan and Leon, who I mentioned. But also, I talked to a child therapist and I talked to a campaigner. I also do stand-up in between. So there's bits of me doing stand-up about dads, my dad and my relationship. So each episode, there's stand-up, there's interviews. and uh episode four is probably the the big reveal so at the beginning we set it up about my mom and how my mom my mom doesn't want me to look into my dad's history classic mom stuff there's not you know we don't talk ill of the dead there's no point your dad died why are you going to look into his history because i don't know my dad's criminal history there was gaps in certain parts that i do not remember my dad ever being around even when i was young so um on episode four uh We actually, shout out to the BBC, they hired some researchers to look into my dad's history and life.

58:00To Be A Boy Hosts:And I mean, I can give you a bit of a reveal. My dad was in more newspapers for crimes than I've been in. Since before I was born, my dad was already arrested for crimes. In Birmingham, there was, in the 80s, there was a big riot called the Hansworth Riots. it was all sort of race related of course back then and my dad was one of the catalysts for that starting due to him and three of us being arrested in like 1983 or 84 or something the series itself whether you're a dad or if you're not a dad it doesn't matter um it's all about human stories human emotions and feelings and honestly it's very uplifting i i'm so used to doom and gloom and there is of course doom and gloom with it because there is a lot of honesty but when you hear especially my friends talk about being fathers and their outlooks you can't help but smile amazing yeah yeah it's honestly i would say of everything i've ever done this is my this is the most important to me and my best work i would say and uh you know all the producers everybody i worked with has been absolutely amazing obviously it's a team effort but i'm so happy with the way that it's come across and the feedback I've got.

59:18To Be A Boy Hosts:I still get messages now from people who listen to it because, you know, it's not going to take you very long to listen to it. It just takes you over an hour and they all love it and, you know, they all tell me about becoming a dad and I talk about whether I want to become a dad and, you know, my insecurities and my issues with my dad. It's, yeah, it's really, really good. It's a really, really solid listen. If you're driving anywhere or you're at the gym, father figure in on BBC Sounds and let me know what you think. I said, that's a good sell.

59:44Darren Harriott:I think they're going to go and listen now. You sold that. PR person, part-time PR, media specialist. Thank you, Darren. Thank you for your honesty, for your openness. We're friends now, so. We're BFX. We're going to wash our faces together. That's how this works. Thank you so much, Darren, everybody.

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