Can corruption drive voter turnout?

0:00Astead Herndon:So the 2026 midterms is shaping up to be an all-out brawl. But the biggest fight may not be between Democrats and Republicans, but over the congressional maps itself. The Texas House formally voted to advance a bill that redraws the state's congressional map. In California, state lawmakers approved a new congressional map. Just got a major decision from the Supreme Court on redistricting. Now I get it. Gerrymandering could be one of those political words that puts people to sleep. or it could be hard to determine what the tangible impact is on everyday people. So today, we're in Virginia to get a temperature check on the fairness of our democratic system, but also to put human faces to this academic problem and see what people actually think about gerrymandering.

0:52Support for this show comes from Odoo. Running a business is hard enough, so why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? Introducing Odoo. It's the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all-in-one, fully integrated platform that makes your work easier. CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, and more. And the best part? Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. That's why over thousands of businesses have made the switch. So why not you? Try Odoo for free at odoo.com. That's O-D-O-O dot com.

1:53free. Great brands, great prices. That's why you rack.

2:00Astead Herndon:So I'm in Ashland, Virginia, a small town just outside of Richmond, which is known for its historic train station, its central place in the story of the Civil War, and Secretariat, the triple crown winning horse. Ashland calls itself the center of the universe. And that checks out because it's the center of the political universe, at least when it comes to the 2026 midterms. That's because Ashland sits in Virginia's first congressional district, which is one of only about 35 or so congressional districts that are actually competitive. That makes Virginia particularly important when it comes to the question of gerrymandering.

2:34Astead Herndon:Now remember, Donald Trump started this gerrymandering fight in the midterms, encouraging Republicans to draw more and more safe red seats so that Republicans have a chance of holding the House. Now Democrats fought back, particularly in places like Virginia, where they tried to draw a new congressional map that could basically counter what Republicans were doing in other states. In Virginia, voters are heading to the polls Tuesday to weigh in on a ballot measure that could reshape the state's congressional map. Today, it's Democrats pushing for a referendum. We can now call that Virginia voters have voted in favor of a referendum.

3:09Astead Herndon:Courts struck down that new map, but it's really thrown this whole area into flux. So I wanted to check in with some of the candidates and volunteers who've been at the center of this fight, starting with Katie Sidderson, a volunteer from Indivisible Virginia who's been going all across the 1st Congressional District talking to people about what they feel and also volunteering for candidates. Now, Katie's gone on her own journey with gerrymandering, so I wanted to ask her how she thinks about the maps, but also what's she hearing from people when she's out there? I used to not be very involved in politics.

3:43I have three kids, and that was my focus, taking up all of my time for the longest time. And so last February is the first protest I ever went to. I was always a Republican. So, and until the 2016 is the first time I did not vote Republican.

4:05Astead Herndon:So if I can add it up, it seems like Donald Trump kind of pushed you towards engagement and pushed you out of the Republican Party. Yes. What have you done now that you've gotten yourself into the political gang? I've been to probably 20 or more protests. I've also planned protests. I also co-started what we call a weekly action RVA. We just started sending out a weekly publication to people so that we give them three ways that they can defend democracy. I'm going to put a question in front of you that I've asked a lot of Democratic politicians and people like that, too. You know, democracy was a huge topic in the 2024 election, but it didn't seem like it motivated people enough to reject Donald Trump.

4:49Astead Herndon:Now, you're still focusing on that kind of in the years after because of what kind of has come out of the White House. What is it about democracy and defending democracy that maybe didn't motivate people in 2024 that you might think is different now? Maybe people didn't, you know, like, they didn't think it was really at risk or it wasn't a big deal or people are making too big a big deal of it or you're exaggerating. Now we're in it. And can you see all the things that are happening and the corruption? And I don't know. I don't know if I have a good answer. No, I think it's a fair point. Like some people maybe thought it was an issue in their heads, but now it might be a little more tangible.

5:34Astead Herndon:I think it should be. I mean, we're also here, of course, because Virginia has been at the center of this gerrymandering fight. I wanted to ask you about this. You're someone who lives in Virginia's first district, which is not only competitive, but was thrown into flux by some of these new maps and the removal of the new maps. Can you just tell me what this last year and a half has been like for you as someone involved in the congressional race and volunteering? It's interesting, right? Because I feel like for such a long time, the message was drilled, right? Gerrymandering is not a good thing.

6:08We don't like it. And then all of a sudden, we're going out and volunteering and telling people, vote for this, right? And so it's kind of an uphill battle to convince people now, not that you're convincing them now gerrymandering is okay, but then you're trying to explain in this particular situation with these factors, this is what we're doing and this is why. And I feel like that was a huge challenge.

6:32Astead Herndon:Let me ask about your own journey on that question. I mean, were you someone who kind of thought of gerrymandering as a no-no and has now been convinced to say in maybe some instances? this? So yeah, I definitely don't support gerrymandering, but then I think it was the fact, like the conditions, right? Well, we're not, this wasn't an idea that we just dreamed up. This was a response to what had already been done. And also it was a vote for the people. So it wasn't just decided on, we're giving the people a vote. Those factors made me feel more comfortable to be able to support it. So if I hear you right, it sounds like you're saying you felt like your hands were tied.

7:14Astead Herndon:You felt like in the context of the situation, this was something Democrats needed to embrace. Yes. All right. So now that the court has thrown those maps out, what was the impact then? What did you think when it became clear that what the people had decided when it comes to these maps weren't going to be the maps in November? It was hugely, just a huge blow to everyone. Because when you work so hard for a long, extended period of time and you feel like you're in your heart like you're trying to do the right thing you really are trying to save democracy and do the right thing could you feel that morale hit like what did it feel like yeah like everyone is just it's like you know the air out of your sales right like you're just like it's just another thing you know and um so it's tough it's tough has this had any impact do you think on engagement from volunteers enthusiasm from volunteers, like, does that morale hit have a kind of cascading effect?

8:14Astead Herndon:Or is it just a moment, people are kind of bummed, and you think they'll get back to it? That's the other thing, is people start to feel like, what does it matter? Like, I tried, and we're doing all these things, and we even voted. And we set, you know, used our voice, and it still didn't work. Confirms that kind of negative feeling people already have, that lack of agency they already feel. So then what do I have left to like try to get these people you know back in it. I mean I was gonna ask you about this because you know gerrymandering can be such a heady issue you know people think about it from um its big impact nationally but necessarily not from people on the ground or it's like tangible impact.

8:53Astead Herndon:For you like how has this experience shaped how you think about our democracy and its fairness? People know if they're not being heard and they're not being listened to Do you think that's how folks feel now? Yeah. I guess a different way for me to ask maybe that same question is in the last year and a half, as you've gotten closer to the democratic process, has it made you feel like the system is more fair, less fair? I want to say that being closer to it, like, gives me more hope. It makes me feel... I don't know if that's true. Yeah, yeah. I feel like that's terrible to say. It's not. It's kind of why I'm asking you.

9:32Astead Herndon:Because, you know, as someone pretty close to it, I'm not sure about its fairness. So I guess I wanted to see from your perspective, as you've seen this with fresh eyes, like, does it make you feel better or worse about the system we've set up? Okay, so the Katie before she ever went to protest, the Katie that used to vote Republican was like, all in democracy. Like, I had no idea, like, what's really going on and what, you know. And so now the closer I get to, I'm like, what is going on? Right? I appreciate learning more about this community, but I also want to meet the candidate that you're volunteering for.

10:06Astead Herndon:We're about to go meet him, right? Yeah, absolutely. Okay, just around the corner, I think. Yep. Around the corner? Yep.

10:14Astead Herndon:Hi, how are you? Good. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. I think we're going to head in here so we can stop. Hello, we're back. Hello. Thank you all so much again. Sure, no problem. I would love for you to introduce yourself. I'm Tim Sawinski. I'm one of the candidates running in Congressional District 1 in Virginia. Katie told me about how she got involved in politics, how the last year and a half has made her much more activated and just focused in terms of flipping these seats. When did you decide to get in the race? Why did you decide to get in the race? I've been working in politics in some form or another for the last 15 years.

10:47My first way into this was I was an intern for the Obama for America campaign in 2008. And I thought government work, that's the key to solutions. worked in the US Senate, worked on campaigns, and then I didn't like what I saw. So I became a community organizer in education, economic fairness, I do environmental justice now. And you really can't do what I do and think that this system works for everyday people. It doesn't. What do you mean? I mean that people get left out in the cold. Unless you can write the biggest check or you have the most money, you don't feel like you have a fair shot in this system.

11:18Astead Herndon:It sounds like for both of you, the activism is based in frustration or frustration with status quo and frustration with how the current system is set up. And it seems as if like a frustration with people's lack of agency and being able to express how they feel. How much of that would you tie to this question of gerrymandering, the congressional maps and just how congressional districts are drawn up? Look, the gerrymandering is a major problem, but it's not like Democrats drew first blood with this one. Donald Trump doesn't think he should be held accountable by anybody. So he's trying to change the rules because he doesn't like the game.

11:54The Democrats tried to respond in Virginia, and they tried to respond in California. But, you know, unfortunately, it was too little too late in Virginia.

12:03Astead Herndon:Now, Katie mentioned how she was someone who didn't like gerrymandering, how she thought that it writes the rules in a way that disenfranchise people. That minimize folks' agency and political process, as we're talking about. Like, how do you square that reality with the embrace of a hyper gerrymandered map by Virginia Democrats? I mean, is it good enough to just say Donald Trump made us do it? The alternative is to say, all right, we gave up. We're not going to fight back. Like, this was an imperfect way to fight back to preserve our democracy and have some semblance of accountability for this administration, which is actively trying to attack our democracy.

12:42They're showing us that they want to undermine our democratic process right now. And we spent months pushing for that redistricting vote. I had to change up my campaign strategy. I was going to move. And it was all worth it, even though it would make it harder for me as a grassroots candidate to win, because we got to do something in this moment. It's up to all of us to preserve some semblance of decency, dignity, and democracy in this country. That was the imperfect response.

13:06Astead Herndon:Katie, it does kind of sound like you all are saying we save democracy by further making the system undemocratic, though. That is a fair point to make, right? Like, how far do you go with trying to save democracy if the things you're doing are eroding it? It's complicated to say, OK, well, we're going to fight back and we're going to draw the maps in a way that sort of minimizes some people's voices, but we're doing it for the greater good. But then the conversation I'd have with people is, well, how do you feel about what was already done? Right. Like you should if you're angry at what's happening here in Virginia and the gerrymandering that we're advocating for.

13:50Were you equally as angry about these other things that Donald Trump did in Texas?

13:55Astead Herndon:And so I could do Indiana. Yeah. I'm just going to push back on these constant questions of Virginia being a hypocrite. What they did in Texas, they didn't give the people a chance to vote on it. What they did in Florida, they're not giving people a chance to vote on it. What they're doing in Louisiana, they definitely didn't give a chance to vote on it. Virginians chose this. And yes, the maps are a problem. And they're always going to be a problem when, you know, just there's going to be backroom deals making maps that strategically disadvantage one party over the other. But again, I go back to politics is fundamentally flawed.

14:23And it needs to be, we need to add some remedies to these.

14:27Astead Herndon:One of the things we talked about is gerrymandering may not be a more tangible concern for people. But you brought up some of the other ones, cost of living. and such. I was wondering where this issue of corruption landed on the priority list. I know it's a priority for y 'all as folks who are engaged, but when you talk to other people, is Donald Trump's open grift, is that something that motivates action, or is that something that's just kind of baked in the cost at this point? From my experience with everyday people, Republican, Democrat, left, right, everyone between. It's all about affordability and corruption.

15:06Now, talking about Donald Trump's corruption is harder to get through, but when we talk about insider trading by congressional members, people hate that.

15:14Astead Herndon:More than what Donald Trump does. There's a difference. You have to acknowledge where people are at. Most people are not paying attention to politics. They're just trying to get by. They're just trying to live happy lives. They're trying to make enough money. And to talk about the nuances of like, well, he's enriched himself with stocks, right? That's so far beyond what's right in front of people. What's right in front of people is gas prices. What's right in front of people is the cost of groceries going up. So yeah, it's hard to talk to people about how they're enriching themselves with wealth versus income and all of the nuances of our economy and Bitcoin.

15:47Right. Crypto, exactly. But people know a raw deal when they're in front of it.

15:52Astead Herndon:But I guess I was interested in what you were saying, that it does seem that congressional stock trading is a motivating thing. Oh, yeah. What is the connection between affordability and corruption? It's a couple of things. It's when you see that they're enriching themselves, you don't have to know the nuances of the stock market or insider trading. You just see that they're getting wealthier, while at the same time, everybody else is getting—it's harder to live. Life shouldn't be this unaffordable. And if you say, like, yes, it's because of them, but also at the same time they're enriching themselves, that drives people crazy.

16:20And that doesn't matter who they voted. And for them, it doesn't matter who they voted for in the last election.

16:25Astead Herndon:Is that the right way to think about this? Not just corruption on one side? affordability on that side, but the combo of people seeing that their lives are getting more expensive as Donald Trump is grifting along the way? I think so. I mean, you have a person who's putting up gold statues and decking out the White House. Yeah, yeah. Ballrooms and this like, yeah. Yeah, like, I just, I don't know. It's hard. I just speak for myself. Like, that makes me angry. And I don't know how you wouldn't have a problem with that. Like, anybody. It doesn't matter which president it is and which, you know, what letters in front of his name.

17:03It should anger everybody. Like, why is that fair? That's not how that's not how the office was set up.

17:10Astead Herndon:You know, the reason we're here beyond the question of the maps is also, you know, just Virginia 1's unique place is one of the few competitive districts. The numbers and history would tell us that midterms are not won and lost on persuasion necessarily, at least when it comes to November. but for which party is more motivated by, you know, where the enthusiasm is and who's kind of how folks are feeling about the president. We're going to this candidate forum tonight. Tell me what we should expect. Yeah. So we have five candidates who are going to be there to take questions. And then candidates will have to face them and give their best shot and answer.

17:49Astead Herndon:Well, I appreciate y 'all's time. Thank you for laying this out. and I'm curious to see what we're going to hear at this town hall. So I'm excited. Yeah, thank you.

18:01Astead Herndon:Support for the show comes from Quince. Summer is here and that means it's time to update your wardrobe. So if you've been looking for pieces that feel lighter, more breathable, but still put together, look no further than Quince. This season, Quince has European linen shirts and pants that can be perfect for your warm weather updates, to your rotation. And the best part is that they start at just$34. They also have soft and easy to wear tees, plus comfortable lightweight cotton sweaters and shirts for those cooler summer nights. I got a couple and I love them. Plus, everything at Quince is priced 50 to 80 % less than similar brands.

18:41Astead Herndon:So I got a couple pieces from Quince and I already love them all. The first one was a tan blazer that works well for winter and summer. I actually wore it on TV the other day and my mom told me I looked great. And for the record, she doesn't always say that. The other couple things I got from Quince were these collared shirts that can work at under a jacket, but they can also work as a jacket itself, particularly in summer months. Elevate your summer wardrobe with Quince. You can go to quince.com slash estead for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash Ested, A-S-T-E-A-D, for free shipping and 365 day returns.

19:26Astead Herndon:Quince.com slash Ested.