Fantasy draft: 2028 presidential race

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20:48Astead Herndon:And now we are going to do the Democratic side. Now, who is going to be the next Democratic nominee? And of course, we got to acknowledge the elephant in the room. We have a possible presidential candidate in the room with us as well. I'd have to say if I was being objective, I would be in the mix. Don, you can choose first this round. No, no, why does he get the right? I won. I was going to switch it off just to make sure everybody leaves happy. You could go second, though. I'm happy to go. No, you can go. All right, Garrett. Okay. By consensus, you're going first. All right. So who will be your first pick in the Democratic candidate fantasy draft?

21:23I'm going to tell you, I think there are several really great candidates. It has to be a guy, unfortunately. I think 2020. And you don't have Gina Raimondo here. We don't?

21:32Astead Herndon:We can add that name to the room? Let's add Gina Raimondo here. But I just interviewed her, and I think she would be incredibly qualified for the run. But even I think she understands that donors are not going to go out on a limb for a woman. You think that the impact of 2016 and 2024 is so clear that it's going to be a man? Some candidates and people and donors have told me they're going to back a white guy. Like, that's what they that's what they seem to say. I don't like it, but that's it. So that's why you got to go with this guy. Oh, Gavin Newsom, the first election in our Democratic 2020 fantasy draft.

22:07Astead Herndon:And certainly the leader of the pack when it comes to the white guy primary right now among Democrats. This could go really fast because I got boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And I'm sure Kara is the same way. OK, so I'm just going to give a little analysis. Yeah. So I think, you know, qualified. Andy Beshear, qualified. Qualified. John Ossoff, good performance. I'm not sure yet. I like him a lot. George Clooney, sure, I think he's qualified. Oh, I think that Josh Shapiro is thoroughly qualified. That's one my mother likes. Except he's Jewish. And that's not for me. I'm not, but you know what I'm saying.

22:45John Ossoff, same thing. And we have the whole Israel thing happening. Same thing with gay. Pete Buttigieg, of course. He's like, he's brilliant. He's gay.

22:53Astead Herndon:And there's some reality checks being dropped early in this Democratic fantasy draft. He has a diversity issue, which is kind of a double whammy, right? You're saying it's harder for him to win over black Latino votes. Huge in the Democratic primary. So I will say, we got the whole thing picked out. But I'll tell you why if I pick it up. Interesting. I like it. I love it. I love it. AOC, Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is the first selection for Don Lemon's fantasy team. Why? Because the energy in the Democratic Party is on the progressive side. For sure. And she is on the progressive side, but she is not yet quite a democratic socialist.

23:28Not that that's a bad thing. She kind of said, but they don't. She kind of. But I don't think her views, as we as we said earlier, she's evolving. Yeah. I don't think her views are as radical as people with as one would think. She's smart and she's pretty. And she's great on social media. She's a great communicator. He's a natural inheritor of this gang. Of the Bernie Sanders gang. She's great on social media, and she's a natural communicator. Natural communicator. And that's what happened with Mom Donnie, and she has that quality.

23:55Astead Herndon:Okay, well, that leaves me up next with the many choices in front of us. Now, we have Gavin Newsom and AOC already selected in our Democratic fantasy draft. Y 'all, I think I got to choose VP Kamala Harris. The recent announcement of South Carolina going first makes me think that there is somewhat of an advantage that the people who have name recognition and speak to that more traditional, more moderate base have. You outstrategize me because she was my pick. I should have picked her first because you would never have picked AOC. Oh, I was picking AOC. Oh, I was picking AOC. I was picking the other one.

24:33So Kamala Harris would have been mine. No, for sure.

24:35Astead Herndon:My thought if you picked Harris was to pick AOC. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I think she's been under the radar. are. And one thing I would say about the recent reporting we did about the possibility of her running on the show is when I was talking to her team, it was clear that, you know, they understood that there was donors and kind of party insiders who did not want her to run again. And there was a thing that they said about if she were to run, it would be as an anti-establishment outsider. And I thought, you know, maybe, you know, I think that we've seen versions of Kamala Harris before, But that to me feels like something.

25:10No, she's so not.

25:10Astead Herndon:I don't feel like that's authentic to who she is. Right, it isn't. But I do think that's authentic to where the Democratic base is. And I think there's a greater recognition of the folks around her about that. She should go towards the cool Kamala and she doesn't always. She could have said something about Biden and she didn't. She's very careful. And I appreciate a lot of things about her. And boy, she does not deserve most of the blame for what happened. She did a great campaign, I thought. She did a lot of energy. The Biden thing just dragged her down to the bottom. An anchor. Anchor. And then she wouldn't cut him loose.

25:42And I kind of like her for that. And at the same time, I'm like, honey, if you want to win this thing, cut him loose.

25:48Astead Herndon:All right. All right. We see Don Lemon with an inspired choice that he is writing down on this list. Don't cover it. What are you doing? Also, because the next choice is Kara. She might take your first set. I know. Let me see. I need to see it. So why don't we? I'll wait till you get yours. No. No, you may not. Oh, Hunter Biden. Add it to the list. He may seem like he's flavor of the week, but there's a lot of not good about that young man. Kara, who is your second selection? I think he would win. Mark Cuban. But I don't think he will run. So I know he will not run. Tell me the logic for Mark Cuban 2028.

26:23I know him really well. I think there is a sort of anti-billionaire backlash and all the AI stuff is going to be in the thing. I think the data centers are a proxy for anger towards both billionaires, AI, job uncertainty, the corruption of the Trumps around crypto. I think it's all wrapped up in the AI. I think he has proved himself to be someone who is reasonable, willing to work across party lines. At the same time, he's doing this cost plus drug thing, which I think is positive. I think he's genuine like it. He's cool on the sports stuff. He's good looking, but he's funny. Got a good bod.

26:57Astead Herndon:All right, Don, you're up. Who you got next? Oh, he's taking Wes Moore. I thought he was going to choose a handsome black guy of another sort. Give me your logic for the Wes Moore selection. Have you seen him? I've seen him. I've seen him. I've seen it. Is this like not Grindr? What's happening here? No, no, no. Not like that. I love him like a brother. And his wife, I mean, his wife's a friend. And I just think that he is brilliant. He has a good heart. He's handsome. And people really like him. He has a charismatic personality. I mean, he certainly has the fresh face quality and I think is introducing himself on the national stage where there's a desire to hear from some new people.

27:43Astead Herndon:So I could definitely see him making something work. I think I'm going to go with the senator from Georgia, John Osso. Very good. Because I think that it is an electability thing. And I think about what you're saying about Jewish candidates. And I honestly think there is some way that it can insulate some folks from some criticism, too. And that if you kind of play, if you speak to your kind of anti-Zionist, but also not overtly left-wing communities, I think they can actually play both roles there. And so I can actually see a Jewish candidate being an advantage for an issue for Democrats, but not necessarily a hindrance if you're not firmly in one side or the other.

28:26Astead Herndon:Right. Yeah. So I think I'm going to go Ossoff. He's also made what should be a really tight race look fairly safe for Democrats in this year. And I think that he could get a little midterms boost because of that. We're on the same page because that was going to be one of my picks again. And the reason I was going to pick him is because the ladies love him. Ladies vote. Black women love him. They call him Senator My Boo. And we know that the road to the White House in the Democratic Party runs through black women. Okay, next. Who you got next? All right. It's hard here because I'm going to go.

29:04I'm between two people that I like a lot and I've spent a lot of time with. One is Gina Raimondo, who I think in any other world would be very qualified.

29:14Astead Herndon:Your concern is gender specifically. Gender, absolutely. And I think she knows it too. See, I'm not so – I think a woman might have a shot. Gina Raimondo, then. I'll pick Gina Raimondo. Okay, okay. That makes sense. Here's the thing. I just interviewed her, and she's funny, another funny person. She's got a great background. Does she have a name recognition? Well, she was governor of Rhode Island, and she was commerce secretary. That's the difficulty. She's a great vice presidential candidate to me. Right, right, right. She's just raised an enormous amount of money, some from a lot of tech companies, but she's not pro-tech.

29:44She's managing this sort of can-do spirit, like the CHIPS Act, the infrastructure bill.

29:50Astead Herndon:I wonder if voters prioritize policy, though, like, you know, since you're mentioning those type of electability and other things. Like I remember when I was covering Warren's campaign in 2020, one of the questions was like, I get the kind of policy primary you're playing, but are voters going to care about that more than electability? But she actually could make an argument of the stuff she's done, right? She has a lot of policy behind her. I can talk to the tech companies. I can go toe to toe with China. I can do this kind of stuff. All right, Todd Lemon, you're up next. Oh, I'm up next. Hey, he picks himself.

30:21Astead Herndon:He is amazing. Maybe the best looking team. That's what we're going for. All right. Now, Dob, we have arrived to the moment of truth. Give me the logic for your presidential campaign in 2028. Look, I am out there every day, as you know, and you compliment me for it. I talk to people almost every day I'm out there. Even I go around the country. When I go to other cities, when I go to other countries, I go and speak to people. And I think I know that people are tired of the tried and true. They're tired of corporate Democrats, established Democrats. They want something new and different. Now, experience wise, all of that, I I think that I have experience.

31:03I don't think that the qualifications to be president anymore means that you have to be a mayor and then a congressman and then a senator. Because if you are smart enough to have smart people around you and you've been around long enough to know that that is the key to any successful presidency, then I think you can be a good leader. I also know before I put because my other choice was going to be either Kamala Harris or John Ossoff. It's South Carolina. Yeah. We are starting in South Carolina, which is a state that supports black candidates. It's the reason that Joe Biden became president. And Jim Clyburn is there and he will help any of these candidates and they are going, it's going to be a black candidate in South Carolina.

31:40So I am a black man. I know that I am gay and people are like, oh, that's OK, but we'll see because I think people are coming around to that a bit.

31:47Astead Herndon:Yeah, I mean, I guess I'm asking what does Don Lemon provide that these other Democrat candidates do not? I'm not an insider and I am not a Democrat. I'd have to register as a Democrat in order to run. And you think people want that? I think people want independence. Yes, they do. I have to tell you, this is a gift to Megyn Kelly. If you run. Okay. Who's your running mate? Who's my running mate? Yeah. Ew. Swisher living 2028. There we go. You just lost. You literally just lost. All this talk about electability. We need white guys, straight people, all out the window. We're going living swisher 2028.

32:21Astead Herndon:Okay, it is my turn, and I am torn between a couple. I like Raphael Warnock. I'm going to go against the grain and say Josh Shapiro. Oh, I was just going to pick. That was my next pick. Because while I agree about the kind of tide turning, particularly against Israel among the Democratic base, I could see a group of kind of progressive candidates or candidates fighting for that group splitting votes. And someone like Josh Shapiro being able to really kind of do what Biden did in 2020 and coalesce a moderate lane. So obviously, moderate lane means black voters, means I think some people we haven't necessarily seen him win with just yet.

33:04Astead Herndon:But I do think there is an opportunity, particularly if we see a split electorate among the AOCs and Kamala Harris's and everyone else. So I am going to go with Josh Shapiro in the moderate wing striking bat. If he were the nominee, I'd vote for him yesterday. We are down to our final round, y 'all. So this is the time for the spicy or maybe out-the-box picks. Think about where your team might need some new voices or maybe someone who can gobble up a lady you don't have. Kimmel. Oh, my God. Oh, Jimmy Kimmel. No. I'm not adding J.B. Pritzker, who's not on here. Pritzker. Oh, my God. Oh, can I take him?

33:46You can take him? Yeah. How did you leave him out?

33:49Astead Herndon:That was bad on my part. I was actually thinking about that right now. We're going to say Governor J.B. Pritzker of Illinois, who's almost certainly running, has a whole bunch of money behind him. I would have put him before Raimondo. Here's why I like him. I just was with him, actually, last week. He is incredibly well-spoken, rich as can be, so he can fund a lot of stuff. He's very well-liked and very pro-business and at the same time very good at pushback and he's been effective. He also has, like, a dad vibe. But he's like a normal guy. He's not like a rich guy. He's got a dad. My Illinois family has definitely come around to him as like the people's billionaire.

34:27Astead Herndon:The way people talk about him is populist. He's a very well-liked, very rich person. Don, give me your final pick. Okay, so look, I am Kara Swisher. I think that I would like her to be my vice president. Let's see. I am going to say, wow, it's a tough one. It's between these two. You're thinking about Clooney or who else? Or Stephen Colbert. Okay, so you're going, again, with outsiders, more of a celebrity choice. Yeah, but also people who... Are politically engaged. Politically engaged. And I don't think... I think it's Clooney. Clooney! I like that choice. This is someone who obviously played a big role in the last Democratic presidential primary, kind of surprisingly.

35:10Astead Herndon:Yeah. Give me the Clooney logic. Well, the Clooney logic is he is... Gorgeous wife. He's my hall pass. But no, I think, look, he's very politically engaged. He's very philanthropic. He has a very accomplished wife who actually should be running for president of the United States. And I think that he has just enough celebrity and just enough political savvy that it would make a very interesting mix. Very well spoken. If he stands at the microphone at a podium in an arena, everyone is going to pay attention because it's George Clooney. He did it right. If he did it right. But by the way, oh, you haven't put your...

35:48I haven't put mine. Okay.

35:49Astead Herndon:I like it. I do like your squad. I'm torn from my last choice between three, these three right here, Raphael Warnock of Georgia, Pete Buttigieg, former transportation secretary, and Gretchen Whitmer, Michigan governor. I'm going to go Raphael Warnock, not because I'm completely sure he's going to run for president, particularly as him and Ossoff might have a choice on their hands, But I do think it's the type of person, whether it be South Carolina or as someone. And I do think he has some interest based on some talks I've had with him. His interesting thing to me is he's really changed his tune on Israel from when he was preaching to when he's been in office, kind of becoming more pro.

36:35Astead Herndon:But I think that also is I think, you know, with that black evangelical tradition and others, there's a lot of ways they can go on that kind of issue. Issue that is not a good thing with the young people that is not a good thing with the young people But I do think you know being the pastor of Ebenezer gives you some leeway You know, I would like to see them yell at him. Let's go through our Democratic team I gotta get a picture. This is just look I mean just look how beautiful my team It is really You call me He really did beat us You literally Pick based on looks No, I did not But let me just tell you something Selfishly Look at these pictures Look at how beautiful Look at No, seriously, look at what melanin does for you.

37:14I'm just saying.

37:15Astead Herndon:Let's go through the teams. Kara Switch has Gavin Newsom, Mark Cuban, Gina Raimondo, and J.B. Pritzker. Don Lemon has Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Wes Moore himself, and George Clooney. And then I have Vice President Kamala Harris, John Ossoff, Josh Shapiro, and Rafael Warnock. Is there any person you are surprised was not selected? You mentioned Rahm Emanuel. Rahm Emanuel, I'm surprised, wasn't selected. And Bashir. But she is someone who comes up a lot. And Pete, because everyone really likes Pete. Another vice presidential candidate. Here's the thing. Don is casting a movie here.

37:51He's casting a movie. Ocean's 15. Ocean's 2028. The gang takes you seat. I am reasonable. I'm like, this is a reasonable choice of people.

38:03Astead Herndon:You're really going business-y, though. Business-y, yeah. I see J.B. Pritzker, Mark Cuban, even Gavin Newsom. Yeah, business-y. As people who are business acceptable. Yes, business can do. I think our picks really reflect our personality. Yeah, I've mixed all around the board. I was trying to let Shapiro occupy one lane. And I'm just obsessed with Georgia, apparently. Let's move on. Okay, so we've now done our Democratic and Republican drafts. We only have one last step here, which is that I want one takeaway from each of you about what we learned throughout this process. and we're going to go one by one before we get out of here.

38:40Astead Herndon:Does anybody have a takeaway that comes to their mind thinking about either the Democrats we picked or the Republicans? I had a tough time with the Republicans simply because of where we are right now when it comes to Republicans, especially MAGA. The interesting thing that was enlightening to me that made me feel better is that there isn't a person on that board that I would not vote for. On the Democratic side. Democratic side. And so that gives me a little bit more hope about 2028. Interesting. Kara? For me, I think people want to put Trump in the rear mirror. And so anyone associated with him, I think, is not going to win.

39:15I think it's just people are sick of him. And I think people are going to want something totally different. So I'm looking for that. You're forgetting the most important thing that you and I, where we work now, digital is going to be extremely important. Someone who is savvy on social media. Who can go from a podcast to a social media to a debate. Yeah. And who's not scared. Bring a message anywhere, everywhere. And that's why I worry about Kamala Harris. I don't think she takes enough risks. Whoever can take a risk, Don Lemon is obviously a fucking expert. Wes is pretty good. Mark is great. Like, it's just who's good at it.

39:49And there's fewer good at it. There's very few good at it in the Republican Party. And there's not so good at it here, too. There's some who are great at it.

39:58Astead Herndon:I think my takeaway, at least for the Republicans, is y 'all skepticism about Vance. I think it's fair. I think it's earned. But I do think the foremost question when we think about the Republican nomination is just what happens with him and Trump's relationship. If that blows up, obviously it's kind of Wild West out there. But the nature of that one and you all kind of certainty that you think it's going to shift really quickly, that sticks in my head. And on the Democratic side, I do think the electability question is a really important one. Like I, we were just in South Carolina, we heard so many people say it's got to be a white guy, that it's got to be someone who who kind of focuses people just on defeating Republicans.

40:37Astead Herndon:But at the same time, in these primaries, you're seeing different versions of electability kind of come out in New York and Colorado, even in Michigan, Wisconsin. But I said, if I could take you back, you're old enough to remember people said the same thing with Barack Obama. And they were like, oh, it's got to be Hillary Clinton. That's why it's got to be a white person. Even the Congressional Black Caucus, even black leaders. And then he won. And they're like, oh, shit, everybody got behind him. So you never know. My last takeaway, though, would be that the centrality of divisions like Israel and AI feel like a real fault line with so many of these candidates.

41:11Astead Herndon:and that even the question of whether a Jewish candidate is helped or hurt by that conversation feels like something that is going to be really central to 2027 and 2027. That's why Vance is a no. He's too tight with the billionaires. I think Rachel Maddow was right. He's Peter Thiel's failed intern. I hate that we have to have a conversation about can a Jewish person be president? I do too. Yeah, I think that it's an uncomfort that I think has often really been applied to women, black folks, other things. And I think this electability conversation, including all those things now. Is there someone, anyone up there, if I can tell you something, that you would, I know you said these are the possibilities, but that you would say shouldn't run?

41:54Astead Herndon:You know, Kamala Harris was my first pick. And I think it's going to be, it would be, like, difficult. Like, I do think it would be a real tightrope. Now, I think it's a tightrope that has fundamentals of a fine campaign and has name recognition and all those things. But to the point of what I talked about earlier, I do think being anti-establishment will be almost required. And I wonder if that's a worldview she can comfortably step in that's authentic to her. And so that's the one I would think like, I think the party would be helped if it was a full opening of new candidates. But I think she's reading the same polls we are.

42:35Right.

42:35Astead Herndon:And so like, yeah. And I think it's also a feeling of like, am I getting skipped over? And I think that's what's motivating. But I think if you've asked maybe who should or shouldn't, that's the person that comes to mind. That's the person that comes to mind. But I mean, on that board, I'd say the three people for the same reason, me, George Clooney and Mark Cuban. Because why mess up your beautiful life? Why? Why mess up your beautiful life? You could party in the White House. I'm like, party. Your loss is our game. Hey, Uber Eats, get over here.

43:12Astead Herndon:America actually will be in your feeds every Saturday with an interesting interview in culture or politics. and you can also watch these episodes on the Vox YouTube channel. Just go to youtube.com slash Vox or click the link in the show notes. The best way to support this show is by becoming a Vox member. Members get a bonus segment on Patreon every week and they make our work possible. Just go to vox.com slash members to join. That's vox.com slash members to join. This show was edited by Kasha Brasalian, fact check by Sarah Schwepp, and mixed by Shannon Mahoney. Christopher Snyder is our video editor, and Kun Nui is our senior art director.

43:51Astead Herndon:Our executive producer is Christina Vallis, and our theme music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Additional support from Miranda Kennedy, David Tadashore, and Nisha Chetal. I'm Estet Herndon, and this is America Actually. Support for this show comes from Odoo. Running a business is hard enough, so why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? introducing Odoo it's the only business software you'll ever need it's an all-in-one fully integrated platform that makes your work easier CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce and more and the best part Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost that's why over thousands of businesses have made the switch so why not you?

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