"Happy Sixthmas"

0:00It's January 6th and Congress met today at 1pm to certify Donald Trump as the winner of the 2024 election. Four years ago, you may recall, Congress was meant to do the same, but the certification was delayed when thousands of Trump supporters marched on the Capitol. The president-elect has said repeatedly, and he told NBC again last month, that he's going to pardon at least some of the insurrectionists. Those people have suffered long and hard. And there may be some exceptions to it. I have to look. But, you know, if somebody was radical, crazy, there might be some people from Antifa there. I don't know, you know, because those people seem to be in good shape.

0:42Whatever happened to scaffold man? You had to be there. Antifa was actually not there four years ago, but members of several extremist groups were at the Capitol on Jan 6th. And today on Explained, we're going to ask whether American extremism on the eve of a second Trump administration.

1:01This is Today Explained. I'm Noelle King with Tess Owen. Tess is a freelance journalist who writes for, among others, New York Magazine. Late last year, Tess wrote a piece for New York, a very vivid piece called The Patriot Wing Inside the Jail Block Run by January 6th Rioters. Now, her story begins, as does ours, in that cell block on the day in July that Donald Trump was shot in the ear by a would-be assassin. Scripps News is the primary news channel available to inmates in that unit. And Scripps News happened to be carrying the event live that day. And there was particular interest in that rally because of rumors that Trump could announce as VP pick.

1:43And when he was shot and collapsed, there was total hysteria. We are still awaiting an update on what exactly we all just witnessed. But we do know that the former president was rushed off of the stage. It was described to me that January 6th, they wept, they clutched each other. where they tried to punch walls, they were just completely hysterical. And then, you know, the famous picture image when Trump kind of was hoisted up and he raised his fist, it turned into kind of total jubilation. You can see his fist there in the air, but it appears his ear may be a little bit bloodied. Fists in the air, trying to flip over tables, just incredibly intense emotions that were felt.

2:35in that kind of short span of time.

2:41Some of the most notorious people who have gone through that wing, for example, the four Proud Boy leaders who were ultimately convicted of seditious conspiracy. That includes Enrique Tarrio, who was a chairman of the Proud Boys. There were also members of the Oath Keepers. There was David Dempsey. He was sentenced to 20 years in prison. That is in part due to the fact that prosecutors labeled him as one of the most violent rioters on January 6th. They said that he basically bludgeoned police officers and engaged in violence for an hour or longer. We spoke pretty regularly over the phone from the quote Patriot Wing.

3:22And I bit by bit heard about his backstory. You know, he hadn't had a particularly good life. He was abused in group homes growing up. And he was homeless for much of his adult life, in and out of prison. And, you know, he glommed onto the MAGA movement and took up the cause and made that his whole life. What did Dempsey and the others tell you about what life is like in the swing of the D.C. jail? He kind of made it sound like a sleepaway camp, almost.

3:58you know they had all these traditions and rituals that they developed over the course of the years that they were in there that were kind of passed down to new people who came in they for example sang the national anthem every night at nine o 'clock and this national anthem was broadcast to their thousands of supporters online The bombs bursting in air Gave proof through the night That our flag was still there

4:38On the anniversary of January 6th there was a kind of a solemn observation called Sixthmas. Sixthmas. Sixthmas. So they say, Happy Sixthmas. They would hold kind of skits, you know, or variety shows called the Hopium Den. They had all of these different kind of rituals that they would kind of participate in to, they said, you know, keep morale up. But there was also a kind of a deep in-group dynamic where, you know, you had to prove that you were not a fed, that you were still, you know, that you believed in the cause, that you were a true believer, a true Trump supporter to kind of really make it into the core community there.

5:22All right. So a group of men who have engaged in violent behavior, allegedly because they haven't been tried or sentenced yet, who share an anti-establishment point of view or ideology. Why do D.C. prison officials make the decision that they should all be housed together? So as far as how this happened or who made the decision to house these people together, question was concerned. It was a very frustrating reporting thread that I kept hitting dead ends on. I was bounced around between the U.S. Marshals, different departments of the DOJ, the D.C. jail, and I was kind of unable to really get an answer from anyone about who or how this decision was made.

6:08But what I do know is typically when it comes to housing extremist defendants, officials generally have three options, each which comes with its own downside. The first option is to disperse those defendants through the general population, which is what's happened with many January 6th defendants since they've been convicted and moved to federal prisons. But that option carries two risks. The first is that they could be targeted with violence from other inmates. And I think that was a concern, I believe that was held or voiced by some officials in the DC jail, that these were mostly white Trump supporters in a jail that has a disproportionately black population.

6:50And there were concerns that could lead to problems. The second was that that option carries the potential for extremist defendants to radicalize other inmates. The second option for housing those defendants is to place them in solitary confinement. But as we know, you know, there have been countless reports and studies warning that solitary confinement, which has been likened to torture, could exacerbate and accelerate radicalization. And the third option is to concentrate these inmates together so that a prison could tailor their resources to their needs. But then you have the flip side, which is that you run the risk of creating an incubator for those people's views.

7:31Was there any evidence, Tess, that these men were treated better or worse than other people in the D.C. jail? This was a major narrative at the beginning that they that that, you know, people in that unit were claiming that they were experiencing disproportionately bad conditions. that was never substantiated. You know, the D.C. jail and American jails in general are known for having pretty abysmal conditions. And a judge ordered an inspection of the D.C. jail amid these complaints from January Sixers. And they did find poor conditions in some parts of the jail, not the ones that the January Sixers were being held in.

8:16You know, one could perhaps argue that they had quite good conditions in some ways, especially later on. You know, they were able to record a podcast from inside jail without jail officials knowing. Hello. Welcome to the D.C. Gulag. The podcast was called the D.C. Gulag, which is another name given to the unit. We are here in a Patriot pod with about 30 other J6 detainees. Thank you for tuning in. They have a vast support network outside of family members of January Sixers, of sympathizers who put thousands of dollars into their commissary accounts, help them with their legal funds. And so, you know, they're eating well.

9:05They are able to get their voices and their views out. But, you know, it's also at the same time, it's jail. In the past few days, you actually got some information suggesting that the Patriot Wing inside the D.C. city jail has dissolved. What did you hear? Yes, I heard from a lawyer representing some of the January Sixers, as well as kind of rumors percolating online from local activists, that the unit is in the process of being dissolved or has been dissolved and that people in that unit are being moved to general population. I'm not sure if that has gone into effect already or if that's something that is coming.

9:52But I do think that it's very interesting in terms of kind of what happens next for these individuals and also the future of the prosecutions. Because, you know, that unit depends on a steady stream of people being arrested and, you know, it needs people in it. And I think we're expecting the prosecutions to dry up, certainly when Trump takes office. We don't know for sure whether Donald Trump is going to pardon these guys, but I wonder what they told you about what they plan to do when they get out. Did anyone say, I want to stay in this life? I want to, you know, do more insurrections. What are the plans for these men?

10:30I mean, I spoke to one January 6er who is beholden to his release conditions, but I spoke to him after the day after the election. he was telling me that he was shopping online for guns because he feels so confident that Trump will pardon him that he feels like he will be able to own a firearm again very soon.

10:53Others, I think there seemed to be very little indication that they would leave the movement or that their experiences behind bars had made them change their views or re-evaluate. their activities leading up to January 6th. For January 6ers who had already gotten out of prison, most are beholden to their probationary release conditions. Others I spoke to said that they weren't allowed to be in contact with other January 6ers. But if they're pardoned, that will mean that these men can be in contact with each other completely openly again. And the other thing was that I got very little indication that the people who were facing pretty serious time kind kind of regretted their actions.

11:45That was journalist Tess Owen. Coming up, the extremists who are not in jail.

12:03This is Today Explained. We're back with Ellie Reeve. Ellie's been reporting on far-right extremism for years. She's a correspondent with CNN and author of the book Black Pill. And she was watching to see how extremist groups reacted late last year after Donald Trump was reelected. The thing that's been most interesting to me is that a lot of the old alt-right guys have been complaining that normie conservatives, the MAGA movement, stole all their ideas. And they didn't get to be part of this, you know, this triumphant Trump movement. They were pushed to the side. And yet Elon Musk is reposting their memes from 10 years ago.

12:47So they're claiming that alt-right ideas have been incorporated into mainstream Republican politics. When did that start and what do they point to? an absorption of the Great Replacement. In the alt-right, it's the idea that Jews are importing people of color, encouraging them to have children, and discouraging white people from having kids in order to maintain control. In more normie conservatism, you see the version of the Great Replacement is Democrats are importing immigrants to depress white voters. We're replacing national-born American, native-born Americans to permanently transform the political landscape.

13:36Is it really they want to remake the demographics of America to ensure that they stay in power forever? They can't win re-election in 2022 unless they bring in a large number of new voters to replace the voters that are already here. That's what this is about. We have an invasion in this country. Another thing you saw with the controversy over the Haitian migrants in Springfield, Ohio, and Trump saying that they were eating cats and dogs, there were many people in the sort of MAGA world who said a version of the phrase, import the third world, become the third world. Now that was like a white nationalist eugenicist talking point 20 years ago.

14:15Like, line for line. Donald Trump Jr. said a version of it. If you import the third world into your country, you are going to become the third world. Stephen Miller has said a version of it. If you import the third world, you become the third world. Simple as that. The idea is that there's something about Western culture, American culture, that comes in the DNA of white people. And that people who come to America can't just say, you know, they believe in capitalism and freedom and freedom of the press. that there's something within them that prevents them from truly embodying our culture.

14:57So alt-right is a very useful term in defining this era of white nationalism that's like 2012, 2014 through about 2018. Richard Spencer coined the term in 2008, but then trolls on 4chan embraced this term and created a whole culture around it, all this slang, slang that has completely embedded our language now, based, cringe, cuck, cuck-servative, incels. There's just so much of that language that has become part of the mainstream. It was this rising wave. They got behind Trump when Trump ran for president and really felt like they were growing. They had cultural power. In 2017, they started stepping into the real world, having big brawls with leftists.

15:48He's bleeding. Yo, yo, yo. He's bleeding. Often in California. All of that culminating in these escalating street fights at Charlottesville. We begin tonight with that breaking news, a horrific scene in Charlottesville, Virginia, a white nationalist rally that descended into deadly violence and chaos. Charlottesville was supposed to be the capstone on what they called the summer of hate. This was the moment they were going to show the world that they were real, they had numbers and they had power. But what came along with that is they were filmed chanting things like, Jews will not replace us.

16:25So-called alt-right demonstrators clashing with counter-protesters, some swinging torches. Jews will not replace us! Jews will not replace us! At the time, there had been this confusion over whether they really meant it. Maybe they were being ironically racist. Maybe the alt-right wasn't defined by anti-Semitism. But once they were all on camera sort of maniacally chanting that, carrying torches, that made the alt-right brand poison. So those guys get marginalized. They got kicked off financial services platforms. They kicked off social media platforms. They got sued. There was a federal civil lawsuit called Sains v.

17:12Kessler that went to trial in 2021. And the discovery process, which revealed how they had organized it, how they had been glib about violence going into Charlottesville, that really crushed all of the people who were named to that lawsuit. And they've just washed out of politics for the most part.

17:35So the intent is clear. What we would like the world to look like in five or ten years is clear. What are you expecting from white nationalists in a second Trump term? So in a way they won, right? In a way, like you don't need this menacing outside force, like trolling mainstream conservatism into believing what they want. Because now they believe it. Like they've won. It's pro-Russia. Like Roe v. Wade has fallen. Like Richard Spencer used to talk about peaceful ethnic cleansing. That was the number one thing people said to point to like what a monster he was. Now Trump has floated deporting as many as 20 million people.

18:13Right. Like all that stuff has gone mainstream. So there's two main figures that I see as having some numbers and some strength. Thirty one members of the Patriot Front were found in the back of a U-Haul and arrested for conspiracy to riot. I'm here with Thomas Russo from Notorious Patriot Front. Patriot Front, a white supremacist group. They organize flash mobs. Experts say these people are members of the white nationalist group Patriot Front, founded in 2017 after breaking off from the group that led the deadly Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville, Virginia. A downtown march with Patriot Front flags and a banner that read Reclaim America.

18:55So they have these unannounced surprise, like 20-minute little demonstrations where they all wear the same outfit. they're dressed in red, white, and blue. They've wrapped themselves in the flag. They learned from Charlottesville associating themselves with swastikas and Hitler and all that. That's weird and creepy. Instead, you wrap yourself in the flag and in Christianity. The other figure I watch is Nick Fuentes. Nick Fuentes went viral for saying your body, our choice. You will never control your own bodies. You will never be the president of the global empire. Never gonna happen, sweetie.

19:34Your body, our choice. Absolute celebration of a rollback of women's rights. He's part of the sort of incel-influenced section of white nationalism. Let me ask you a serious question that will get me in a ton of trouble. So you've got men in flash mobs wearing outfits, embracing Christianity only a couple hundred at a time. You've got Nick Fuentes. Like, again, if I'm not online, like, I don't think my mom knows who Nick Fuentes is. And one thing I worry, I know she doesn't know who he is, as a matter of fact. One thing I wonder is, like, are we overworried about these guys? I think it is a fantastic question.

20:22Thank you, Ellie. That is a fantastic. I think about that all the time. But my first reaction is to go back to what something Fred Brennan said. Fred Brennan, he created 8chan. That became the platform for mass shooters to post their manifestos. It became the platform for QAnon. He eventually realized he'd created a monster and set about trying to destroy it. And what he says is we need to stop separating the online and the real world. Like everything that is happening online is real and it is happening in the real world. Like sometimes there's different laws of physics that apply. But this stuff is real.

21:00So for QAnon, for example, it was like a curiosity. It was bizarre. It was outrageous. I was once on a beach and saw these people nude, sunbathing, painting a big letter Q on a boulder. I thought, oh, that's so ridiculous. but only a few years later like I'm at January 6th while they're storming the Capitol right like yeah so it's very easy online to misrepresent your numbers to misrepresent who you are to seem much bigger than you actually are but on the other hand it is this very powerful tool for showing what ideas can become powerful. So the first person I ever heard about Drag Queen Story Hour from was a teenage fascist troll in 2017.

21:49Huh. Yeah. And this becomes a huge issue starting in 2022 in the mainstream. Same thing with critical race theory, right? Again, I didn't hear anyone talking about critical race theory except for this person on 4chan until that one was a lot quicker that was like six months suddenly it was everywhere it's like you know on a website you do a b testing of a headline to see what sticks like 4chan is that but this is much more powerful level now that elon musk has taken over twitter there's not a sense that you have to be um anonymous to promote these ideas. So a lot of these people are saying it with their real name on Twitter.

22:36These kinds of ideas are able to get mainstream adoption more quickly now because there's less shame attached to it.

22:50Ellie Reeve of CNN is author of Black Pill. Halima Shah and Peter Balanon-Rosen produced today's episode. Matthew Collette is our editor. Andrea Kristen's daughter and Rob buyers are our engineers. And I'm Noelle King. It's Today Explained.