Is MAGA still electable?

0:00Astead Herndon:Do Republicans have an electability problem? We've heard a lot about the E-word when it comes to Democrats, not so much when it comes to Republicans. But we should ask that question. Donald Trump is an unpopular president leading an unpopular war. Gas prices are sky high, and Republicans have nominated a bunch of scandal-plagued candidates, like Ken Paxton in Texas or Max Miller in Ohio. They've even nominated candidates who supported Donald Trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election. Here's Tom Tiffany, the Republican gubernatorial candidate in Wisconsin. He voted not to certify Joe Biden's 2020 win.

0:40Do you regret your vote, though? I'm looking forward, not backwards.

0:44Astead Herndon:So have Republicans set the stage for a backlash in the midterms? This is going to be an election between common sense versus crazy. Do you want to run a candidate that hates Thanksgiving? And are they the ones with an electability issue? That's this week on America Actually, where we talk to C.J. Pearson. Let's dig in.

1:10C.J.

1:11Astead Herndon:Pearson is only 24 years old. He first went viral as just a 12-year-old who was willing to criticize President Obama. And in conservative circles, it was a hit. President Obama, you don't love America. Since then, he's bounced around Republican politics and masked thousands of followers in the process. He's been a political commentator on places like Fox News and Newsmax, one of the most prominent young Black voices in the MAGA movement. Pearson wasn't always a Trump guy, but he's recently reinvented himself as one of the president's most vocal fans. He even teamed up with Trump's favorite election lawyer, Sidney Powell, to sue Georgia Governor Brian Kemp over Trump's false claims of a rigged 2020 election.

1:57Astead Herndon:Since 2024, Pearson has found some influence in Washington as a social media creator and a liaison for young Republicans looking to make the GOP cool again. In fact, much of his work reminds me of what Jack Posobiec told me when we were at the UFC fight in Washington, that Donald Trump drives a lot of his connection with younger voters through things like sports and culture. You go and look at the places that pro wrestling goes and holds their events, and then you go and cross-section that, cross-reference that with MAGA rallies. It's wonderful. The same group of people, the same sort of culture that speaks to each other.

2:34Astead Herndon:But the other thing Jack told me was that none of that matters unless Donald Trump focuses on the issues that matter most in the midterm elections, like affordability and the Iran war. And of course, we have not seen that from the president so far. Republicans love pointing the finger at Democrats, but are they willing to defend Trump's record in this midterm elections? Let's ask Pearson and find out. T.J. Pearson, thank you for joining us on America Actually. How are you? Thank you for having me. It's great to be here. I first want to just ask a broader question because we wanted to talk to you about kind of Republicans and the midterms and their own electability questions.

3:14That E-word's been thrown around a lot about Democrats, but we want to think about how Republicans are on their own. If you could rate Donald Trump's second term one through 10, what would you give it? Well, I think the president's doing incredibly well for the American people. Promises made, promises kept in many ways. I think if you look at this president who ran on securing our southern border, he's done it. You look at this president who's talked about bringing down costs. You know, he's brought down the cost of dairy. eggs. He's achieved that. And I think also this president is only just getting started.

3:41He ran on no tax on tips. He did that. He ran on no tax on overtime. He did that. You know, oftentimes I tell people the challenge of this administration is keeping up the messaging to the same pace as the accomplishments of this president. And so I think that there's a lot more work to do. Thankfully, we have two more years to do it. Can I get a number? I think he's doing well. You know, I will say I grew up in a place where there's always room for improvements, I'll give him an eight. You're giving him an eight. I wanted to just start there because Trump's approval rating has fallen, as I'm sure you have seen.

4:10Why do you think the country isn't maybe on the same page as you? You know, I think a lot of people are focused on their pocketbooks, right? They're focused on domestic issues. And I think that, you know, we have been very nationally focused over the course of the past few months as we've navigated and dealt with the Iran conflict. But I think that as we get ready to get through this last wave of primaries, I think you're going to see a change in this messaging and a reset at the midterm convention in Dallas later this month or next month in September. And I think you're going to hear this president talking about how he's made America more affordable, how he's kept Americans safe, far more safe than they were under President Joe Biden.

4:44I think that you'll see those numbers start to change. And reminder, the only poll that matters is on Election Day. There are many polls that had Conal Harris beating President Trump in 2024, and that didn't happen. Yeah, I don't want to be overly polar reliant, but we've heard some of this directly from Republicans. Even we were at Donald Trump's UFC event in D.C. talking to young men. And even there, we heard people really come to be critical on three issues specifically tariffs, the Iran war and the handling of the Epstein files. Just because he's not living up to what he said he was going to do.

5:15You know, he said he was anti-war. You know, he said he was going to lower prices. And we're just not like that result is just not happening. You know, we're not seeing it. I mean, you mentioned the kind of question of affordability. Donald Trump has said, quote, I love the inflation. And when asked by reporters about the public strain that has come from the conflicts with Iran, he said, I don't think about American financial situation. I don't think about anybody. But how can you say the Republicans are going to run on affordability if the president saying he doesn't care if Americans lives are unaffordable?

5:45Well, I've often said that we can't see this entire affordability debate to the Democrats. You know, the reason that I think a lot of young people are giving a little bit of a flirtatious nod to the DSA and their socialist communist candidates is because they're talking about an issue that's top of mind for them. In the same way that when President Trump won in 2024, he was talking about issues that were top of mind to the American voter, which was the cost of living. And so I think that we need to get back to that messaging. I think that this president has continued to deliver on that front. You know, costs are coming down.

6:12The economy is resurging. We're seeing, you know, economic and global investment in this country. And like anything we've seen before in Oklahoma, we're bringing back manufacturing with aluminum smelting plant. But the president's not saying this. The president said, I love the inflation and I don't think about America's financial situation. Do those words help Republican midterms candidate? Well, I think the president has a lot of time to say a lot more things because election day is pretty far away from now. I think we have two or three months left. I think the president will make this case.

6:40But I think what will also make the case is that the candidates that, you know, the Democrats are running and nominating all across this country who are now affiliating themselves with the socialist movement are not actually fighting for things that will actually ever work. Socialism has never worked anywhere it's been tried. And I think that this is going to be election between common sense versus crazy. Do you want to run a candidate that hates Thanksgiving? For the record, that candidate lost in the primary. She would not be on the ballot in November. Like she almost was there, though. And that's the thing.

7:07I'm glad Common Sense won the day in Wisconsin that the good people there love Turkey. I want to go back to the question of affordability because, you know, we were just at a gas station in Allentown, Pennsylvania, a toss-up swing district. And the causational relationship that people have with the high gas prices and Donald Trump's war in Iran is really clear. You know, it doesn't take political genius to know kind of why you're paying more at the pump. We talked to one Trump voter who said specifically that he was upset with the president. I blame the president because he indicated to us he's going to drop all these costs.

7:42I know it can't happen overnight, but when is it going to happen? It's outrageous. Did you vote for him to gas? Yes, I did. And did you vote for him on the premise that stuff like gas would be lower? I voted for him with his promises to American people. And I think he's let us down. What is your message to that type of voter who's not looking at the Democrats on the other side, but is upset at Donald Trump's own words not matching the campaign trail to the action? I think my answer to them would be, I hear you, I feel you. At the end of the day, I think the price at the pump and the price of the grocery stores are, again, the things that are top of mind for people.

8:19While I think what the president is doing in Iran is helping avoid a global conflict that my generation would have to continue with decades from now, I understand that there's going to be some short-term pain that people are going to have struggles with. And I think that we've got to reach people and just acknowledge the fact that, yeah, there has been a slight increase in some of these prices. And they matter a lot more to people than this kind of broad idea of what we're doing is going to be good decades from now, right? Yeah, yeah. The macro long term isn't hitting when someone's worried about the short term.

8:51It does a little remind me, though, of 2021, too, when there was that spike in inflation and Democrats, I would ask them similar questions and they would tell me, oh, you know, there's kind of a macroeconomic story that we can tell. And once inflation goes down a little bit, I think people will understand in the midterms. I mean, and conservatives, I think folks like yourself were telling people that Democrats were avoiding the kind of people's pain and that they weren't speaking to folks problems. It's part of the reason, as you mentioned, that Donald Trump won in 2024 in the purse place. Is this administration now not just replicating that similar type of blind spot?

9:26Yeah. And so that's what I was saying is that we have to reorient the conversation that we're having as a party around these domestic issues. Or if not, we will lose disastrously in November. The reality of it is, again, is that these foreign entanglements, they show America's strength. I trust President Trump to get the job done and to do it well far more than I ever would have Joe Biden. But the reality of it is, again, is that everyday voters, everyday people my age, they're concerned about grocery store prices. They're concerned about the price of the pump. Those are the issues that we need to be talking about.

9:55I think that from now until November, our entire message should be how do we make America more affordable again? And on that point, President Trump has actually talked a lot about that. Everything from supporting things like the Credit Card Competition Act, but also, too, he's gone to places like Nevada where there's a huge hospitality industry and talked about the impact that no tax on tips and no tax on overtime has had. The people that benefit the most from policies like that are everyday blue-collar Americans. We need to talk about that ad nauseum. Yeah, I hear that. If we were to describe the Republican message in the midterms, it is what?

10:27I think what it – I'll tell you what it needs to be. It needs to be exactly what we just discussed, which is making America more affordable again. I guess we're somewhat identifying a gap of where it is, though, and what you're saying it should be, right? Like, do Republican candidates sound like what you're pretending here? Well, they should. But what I'll tell you is that I think the message as it currently stands is that this is an election between communism versus common sense. And I think that, you know, when it comes to that, I think that people are weary of you have some of these ideas that are being perpetuated by members of the DSA.

10:59They want to eliminate the Senate. They want to get rid of the presidency. It's bizarre stuff that actually doesn't actually resonate with many Americans. You also have people who are doubling down on things like biological men playing women's sports. That's an 80-20 issue. The more they talk about that, I got to tell you, I jump with glee because I would love to talk about that every single day until November because I know that the American people are on our side on those issues. Mm hmm. Back in 2025, when Trump was first elected, as I was mentioned, you were part of a group profile with a bunch of media outlets who were seeming to revel in Trump's return, a kind of return of cool, quote, kids moment in conservative culture.

11:35How would you say that's gone? Like, is Trump cool currently? No, I think he is cool. He's the coolest man in politics. But what I'll tell you is that. It's kind of a low bar, I mean. I ain't got to say. Well, he is Barack Obama cool and he's Trump cool. He's a different kind of cool, you know. So I think Donald Trump is cool. And I think that what made these events cool was the fact that I think that you can go to them and actually just have a good time. And what we did is we actually didn't lead with politics for these events. And our last event was actually recent. It was 4th of July in celebration of America 250.

12:05We had Moneybagg Yo there performing. And we weren't out there having some political rally. We were just simply saying we love America and we're not going to apologize for it. I hear you to some degree, but it does feel like Trump has lost the Internet a little bit. I mean, even if we think about some of the pushback that was happening around the Epstein vows, you have prominent podcasters. If you want to think about the Joe Rogans of the world, we're certainly more willing to criticize him nowadays. I mean, it does stretch kind of credibility a little bit to say that Donald Trump's in the same place he was even in 2024, 2023.

12:39Like, it doesn't seem like the timelines turned on him a little bit. Well, I think it's important to acknowledge in 2024, and I think that people were fully aware of this fact, is that it was a fragile coalition of voters who were simply sick and tired of the status quo, right? They were sick and tired of what they were hearing from Joe Biden. They weren't ecstatic about the coronation of Kamala Harris, and they were looking to someone who was speaking their language and offered solutions for the time, and that was President Trump. And so I think that we still have to – we can't rest on our laurels.

13:09I was always very, very like I would emphasize this all the time. It's like just because Donald Trump did well with young people doesn't mean everybody else going to do well with young people. And it's so interesting. And you may have seen this anecdotally. It's like I saw the tide turn kind of after Venezuela. Like so Venezuela, we go into Venezuela. We drop in there. We kidnap Maduro. People my age love that. They were like, oh, this is America. Like we ran up in your trap. We took over your trap. And we also took your wife. Like that doesn't get more American than that. I loved it. But then there was something about Iran where people were like, wait, this is a little different.

13:45And I think that that is when we as Republicans, as conservatives had to communicate to people why this was the America first position to take. I think we were a little slow on that. I think the messaging has come around a little bit. But I think we were slow initially to that. I think that was a little bit of a problem. I mean, I think the problem is substantive. I think the problem is that Donald Trump said that he would not start another foreign entanglement in the exact place he has done so. He said he wouldn't start any new wars. New wars. We're not at war. For reasons that he, he meant for reasons that he has not explained to the American people on behalf of interests they do not think is serving them.

14:21So. Well, we're not going to split hairs. He said no new wars. You know, some would say this is, you know, a conflict or an entanglement.

14:27Astead Herndon:But after the break, Charlie Kirk, the war on DEI and 2020 election denialism.

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16:23We both knew Charlie Kirkland. I covered him a couple of times. I know you occupied an overlapping conservative influencer space to the point you're making about building up institutions and connecting young people with Republicans. He occupied a unique space into doing that. It somewhat seems to me like somewhat of the gap in what we're seeing now in that landscape is one that he used to fill. How big is that void? You know, I think it's huge. And I think there will never be another Charlie Kirk. And I think that his absence is definitely felt. You see it across the conservative movement, which has kind of become like the Real Housewives of Atlanta.

17:00Like it's interesting seeing all these warring personalities all the time. It's like the way that I kind of get past it, I just say not my monkey, not my circus. but unfortunately I realized it is my circus. And so, you know. It is very much your circus. It is very interesting. And I think that the thing that Charlie was really able to do is to kind of talk to all these different coalitions of people and bring them together and say, hey, let's figure out how we can align and how we can actually communicate this in a way that we're staying united and that we're staying on message. And I think that his absence has felt in that way.

17:32A lot of these fights that typically would have happened behind the scenes are now fully on public view. Hopefully by November, we're a united family. Families fight, families bicker. The Democrats know that well. Hopefully by November, we get things together. I would be remiss if I wouldn't ask you about Trump's cuts to the federal workforce, which had a particular effect on black communities. And it seems as if this administration has almost made a point to humiliate some kind of prominent members of black public service. I'm thinking about Lisa Cook. I'm thinking about other members of the military.

18:03Harry, and polls consistently show that the majority of American people don't like this, that they don't think that this sort of targeting is in line with American values. Is it in line with yours? When you have seen Donald Trump say some of this stuff, the rollbacks to federal diversity programs, what have you thought? Well, I think, you know, President Trump is an equal opportunity offender in the same way in which he'll go after Lisa Cook. He'll go after, you know, a Republican congresswoman like Marjorie Taylor Greene who says something that he doesn't like. And so I don't think this has anything to do with race.

18:34In terms of DEI, I've never really needed DEI to succeed. I think I've been quite fine without it. And I think that it's unfortunate that black people have to go through public life with an asterisk sex to their accomplishments because people will question whether or not they earned it because of some quota or some racial program rather than their own merit. I think that there are tons of people in our community who are hardworking accomplished whose accomplishments stand on their own. And I don't think we need that. I mean, I want to say this respectfully, but like your role in the conservative space has been as a young black man.

19:07And that has been because of identity. I mean, it is kind of rich to hear such a visceral reaction to words like DEI when you could argue that the space that you have occupied has been directly related to the fact that you are a young black conservative. Like, does that sound a little DEI, my friend? No, I don't think it does. I think I offer a unique perspective that oftentimes maybe wasn't platformed by mainstream media sources, but also too is actually really emblematic of our community. There are so many conservative voices within the black community who unfortunately were not elevated. We were treated as some type of monolith for far too long.

19:43And I think that's why many in the media missed the moment where you saw young black men who were not going to be sunned into voting for Kamala Harris as President Obama attempted to do in 2024. But beyond that, what I would say is that unlike, you know, folks like Ntoji Brown Jackson, who sits in the Supreme Court today because President Biden declared that he was going to appoint a black woman, I've never filled a black job. You know, that's never really been my thing. I've never, you know, I focused on youth outreach and the overall, you know, movement. And because I think a rising tide lifts all ships, the black community, the white community, Hispanics, black and brown people all around.

20:17And so, again, I feel like you could make that point without picking on the Supreme Court justice. But let us move on. I want to ask a couple more. Another trend among Republicans this cycle has been their refusal to acknowledge Joe Biden won the 2020 election. You were previously one of Trump's mouthpieces for false election claims. I wanted to ask you four years later, will you say if Joe Biden won the 2020 election? Well, President Biden did occupy the White House for four years. So I guess that would mean that. But what I would say in terms of this, the Republican line on this, why can't you say that Joe Biden won more votes than Donald Trump in the 2020 election and was duly elected?