Kamala, 2028

0:00Astead Herndon:I'm going to let you in on a little political secret, maybe the worst kept secret in national politics. Former Vice President Kamala Harris is considering a comeback and thinking about running for president in 2028. I might. I'm thinking about it. She went on a book tour through important Democratic primary states. She's chatting with Zohra Mamdani, and she's dialing up pro-Palestinian activists to gauge their level of interest. Most importantly, though, she's leading the polls, beating out big names like California's Gavin Newsom and New York's AOC. But I covered Harris' first two presidential runs in 2019 and also in 2024.

0:38Astead Herndon:So I know that the idea of Harris the candidate is sometimes better than the reality. So I have a question. Does anybody actually want the Kamala Harris comeback to happen? I called up Democratic insiders to get their take. I reached the voicemail of Megan. And I got the voicemail. The person you're trying to reach is not available. Let's try somebody else. Your call has been forwarded to voicemail. At the tone, please record your message. Oh, you know, a lot of journalism is just voicemails. Oh, I'm getting a call back. Hey, Steph. Hey, how are you? This Alex? I thought you were my Uber driver trying to get to the airport.

1:19Astead Herndon:I also talked to donors. Everything that happened has left bad taste and we need a fresh start. And of course, the voters. Absolutely, I think Kamala Harris should run for president again. Kamala Harris 2028. Yay or yikes? That's this week on America Actually. Let's dig in.

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2:56Astead Herndon:Now, on this show, we like to think about American politics beyond the question of Donald Trump. And yes, that'll be shaped by voters' opinions on things like AI regulation or foreign policy, but it'll also be shaped by individuals, a.k.a. the people actually running for president in the next election. And while I usually think it's too early to talk about particular candidates, that feels like it's changing right about now. Gavin Newsom has basically declared himself a candidate for the 2028 election. And AOC is the clear choice of the left should she run. But there's much less discussion about the person actually leading the 2028 polling, the former vice president.

3:37Astead Herndon:Virtually all of the recent press about Harris has actually been about the unease that Democrats feel about the prospect of her mounting another campaign. In fact, some of the stories read like Democrats are downright begging her not to jump into the race. That largely lines up with what I've heard from Democrats privately. So I decided to conduct a little experiment. Let's hear the case for Kamala Harris, as described by people in her inner circle. And then let's put that case to the test with key groups that'll shape her decision and the presidential primary. So I started by reaching out to her spokesperson and got a list of surrogates that they said can provide their perspective.

4:17Astead Herndon:Here's what they said. One, they excused the 2024 campaign as an anomaly. Why do I think Harris lost in 2024? I think Jesus Christ would have lost in 2024 after the assassination attempt. And Kamala Harris had to run a shortened campaign after Joe Biden dropped out. The idea that she does not deserve the opportunity to put an infrastructure in place beyond the construct of 107 days, I think is incredibly unfair. Two, they argued that Harris is a strong candidate. And there are groups of the Democratic base, particularly groups of women and Black voters, who are excited by the prospect of her return.

4:59They adore her. They want her back, 100%.

5:03Astead Herndon:Now that I've heard the logic of a Harris candidacy, I wanted to get a sense of her decision-making. She's been noncommittal when it comes to the prospect of another presidential campaign. So what are the factors that actually go into that decision? I called up Jamal Simmons, her former communications director, who gave me a sense of her decision-making process. Somebody's got to pay for the buses. Somebody's got to pay for those TV ads. Who is actually going to come out and support the campaign, work on the campaign, volunteer? Who's the base? Who's the base of this party? But who's the infrastructure?

5:33Astead Herndon:Simmons said that Harris needs to ask herself two important questions. Number one, are the donors behind you? And number two, are the voters behind you? And so that gave me a helpful framework to think about the next stage of our experiment. Let's talk. Now that we've heard from the party, what about everybody else? Do voters actually want another dose of Kamala Harris? Let's find out. So we went to a Juneteenth picnic in North Charleston. Now, South Carolina is a crucial state for Democrats running for president. It's one of the first primary states, and it has a highly influential share of Black voters.

6:11OK, so I am going to write out a couple signs that give people a sense of what we're doing here so they know to talk to us. The first is going to say podcast taping, come chat with us, you know, something friendly to bring in the vibes.

6:23Astead Herndon:and then the second one will ask our question, should Kamala Harris vote for president again in 2028? We had our signs, a yes and a no bucket for people to vote. What's up, y 'all? You want to chat with us? Hey, y 'all, how are you? Do you want to vote in our poll, please, pretty quickly? So here's the deal. It's a little experiment where you got to either vote yes or no and tell us why. And so you can go ahead, so we can look, we can not look, we can talk to you, you can keep it secret, it's up to you. Okay. So you're not going to look at my vote? Now, I won't if you don't want me to. No, let's all look.

6:50All right, so we're going to go ahead and look. I was going to say, burnt out. Big time. Now, why do you think that? Well, I mean, you know, you got Biden dropping out. You bring her in, you know, no primary. And she's like, she's stacking up the minority cards a little bit too much. You know, if it didn't go for Hillary, it's definitely not going to go for Kamala. I think we found that out. I don't think there's any need for us to dip our toe in that pool again. So am I hearing this? You think just like it's too hard for a woman, a black woman to win? Absolutely. 100 percent. Just in general, not even elections, just in America, you know.

7:24So you're saying because of that, you think that Democrats should nominate somebody else? Absolutely, for sure. What do you think about what he just said? I think it's hard because, like, you want black women to succeed. You want to see them, but you have to play the game. And I don't think that Kamala can win the game. Going into Election Day last year, did you think she was already— did you think, like, oh, a black woman can win? Or did it took after that? You're like, now I'm done. It took after that. It took after that. I think I was just as surprised as I think a lot of people were to think that it's not even like, oh, we're not as progressive.

7:53It's just like, oh, I think it's a unique time in America where it's like you don't need to be political to be a politician. You need to be popular. You need to be sellable. You need to be favorite. Like you need to be a lot more.

8:07Astead Herndon:Why isn't she? I mean, theoretically. She's too smart. She's too smart. I think that people can't relate to her. I think the people in middle of nowhere, I think it's really easy in a big city to compare yourself to other people looking around. But I've lived in rural Georgia, rural Ohio. Like, I've lived in these rural areas where you drive and you see nothing but a Republican. You see nothing but support. And it's like, how do you change the mind? And I don't think a person like Kamala, I think she's too far. I think, yeah, you need to consider someone like Gavin Newsom, someone who looks a little bit more like what they're used to, to dip the toe in.

8:41So we're saying white guy again. Yeah. Or a white woman. Like, you saw how that went the first time. I want to hear you, though. Are we saying white guy? I'm saying it because I'm at a point now where I would rather have a competent white man than have another Trump run that back. And I think it's unfortunate. I think it's unfortunate that's, like, where we are. But I think that we've, like, just progressed so far back to, like, it's almost like we have to start the game over again. I think the whole Democratic Party needs to step that game up. I mean, what he's doing in office right now, nobody's doing nothing.

9:16It's ridiculous. They need me in there.

9:25Tell us which bucket you're going to vote in. I'm going to vote in the no bucket. You're going to vote in the no bucket? Why? Only just because before she, you know, ran for president and then also was the vice president with Joe Biden, She did a lot of stuff that was not, I don't know how to say it, I guess beneficial to the black community really. And a lot of times I feel like us black people, when we see someone that is of our color, they kind of like gravitate towards them because they feel as if they're going to do what's best for us. And then also I care a lot about what's happening in Palestine too.

9:59And I don't like her politics when it comes to that either. What she does is she tries to benefit off of the black community too. What do you mean by that? As in like a lot of times like before, before like all this presidential stuff, I didn't really recall her acknowledging that she was kinfolk, if that makes sense. That makes sense to me. So, and now because it's beneficial for her and she needs our votes, she's like, I'm black and I'm proud all of a sudden. You're saying looking forward, that's not where you want to go then. Oh. I'm just gonna - Wait, I'm sorry. The question is should she run again?

10:32You know what? Yeah. I mean - Oh, good. All right. All right. All right. So it seems like if you had some problems last time, but you're not opposed to her running again. If she yeah, if she does a lot of things and she changes certain things and she comes and hit all these pointers, especially after like dealing with Trump's presidency. I feel like we're not going to have that many candidates that's willing to do half the things that she's probably willing to do, especially in this upcoming election. Because we see what's going on. I feel like J.D. Vance is probably going to try to run for president.

11:02and that's a heck no. So like, yeah. So you're saying if that's their two options, then you're kind of leaning more towards her. I'll lean most definitely towards her. So how about you put down what the things you would want her to see differently? You mentioned Palestine and things like that. When you're saying things that you felt weren't for the Black community before, are you talking about like the criminal justice stuff? Yeah, which I understand it, but it's like, to me, I feel as if her target more so was us, if that makes sense. You're saying she was locking us up until she needed our vote?

11:26Yeah. Okay. I'm like, let me cut through the chase. Yeah, that's what you're saying? All right. Did you vote for Kamala Harris in 2024? Yes, I did. You did? Now, do you think she should run for president again? Well, I don't see why not. I mean, I think she has the right to, just like any other American citizen. Do you think it's a good idea for the Democratic Party? Well, I'll be totally honest with you. I don't think the Democratic Party right now knows its head from a hole in the ground. So, they don't have anything to lose, really, by putting her up there, to be honest with you, because, you know, I just basically think that, um, right now, I really don't see anyone else on the horizon that has the charisma to rally those who are opposed to the current regime right now.

12:06So we heard some people saying, like, they worry that a woman would have a tough time winning. They worry of that after last time that they need somebody fresh, like things like that. I wonder what you think about those type of things. Well, now, Joe Biden ran for president at least three or four times before he was actually elected. Yep. OK, Ronald Reagan ran about two times before he was reelected. So I really don't think that that's an accurate comparison to say that just because you lost once doesn't mean that you shouldn't run again. Yeah, twice. She ran twice. Yeah, exactly. So, I mean, there's no real reason why she shouldn't.

12:37You want to join us? Yes, absolutely. Okay, so how about, you said no way. I don't think she should run again. Tell me why. Because you haven't seen her since you ran. That's the only time you've seen her, when she was politicking. Ever since then, we heard nothing else from her. So why would she run again? We're in South Carolina because this is an all-important state, all-important question. And so people like you are the exact thoughts we want to hear. So you, I see you pondering. I think she should. I wasn't pondering. I was just thinking about what I was going to say. Oh, okay, okay. Now, can you give us a reason why?

13:10Because we need women. We need women. Women do the thing right. And every time we get a chance to make a step, they push us back. But if all of us get in together and vote for her, she can win and everything's going to change. Mm-hmm. She's going to clean up the crap that's in there now. Why do you think it will go differently next time than it went the last couple times? Because she's been through it three times the charm. Third time's the charm? Third time's the charm. There we go. There we go. You're more than welcome. Thank you. You want to talk to us about what you voted and why? What do you...

13:38Well... You think she should run again? Yes. Now, the question I've been asking all the people who vote yes is, why do they think next time will go differently than last time? Because clock has opened up those eyes of those dingbats. All right, so we're asking people if they think Kamala Harris should run for president again in 2028. We would love to know y 'all's answers. Yeah. Yeah? Yeah, yeah. Why? Yeah, why? I think she had a really strong political standpoint. She had a strong ability. Yeah, she really did. Like, she told us everything that was going to happen in this presidency, like, in this candidacy.

14:14I feel like she genuinely wants to help everybody. It's not like a side thing. You believe her? Yeah. I think she's genuine. Why do you think she would have a better chance of being successful in 2028 since she wasn't in 2024? Because now she can anticipate what goes wrong. She's on the ground. You're saying, like, the circumstances are different. Yeah. She can anticipate what goes wrong. She can build her campaign based on what went wrong. And then she can build back and come back stronger. So I think she has a great candidate. Some people are like, you know, Democrats might need a white guy.

14:49They're worried that women can't win. They're worried that Black women can't win. Is that a fear that you all have? No, Black women can do anything. I think people in this country have gotten too uncomfortable... For sure. ...being outwardly against groups of people. Uh-huh. You're saying there's a moment of recognition that Trump is kind of fumbled, that you think that Harris can now come back and see him. Is it right here, y 'all right? It's possible. Okay.

15:17In a nutshell, America's not ready for a woman to leave. I would love to see her take office, but I have to agree. I don't think the United States is ready right now to actually put a woman in the office. I don't think there'll never be a woman president in the United States. Now, wait, wait, wait, you can't just walk away on that. Tell us why. Because of the system. Mm-hmm. And if you look at the system, there's an old man from the beginning of time. Certainly. But you know, as of 2007, there was only white guys for a whole period of time. Why can't that system change? Well, if we could get out and do the right thing, yeah.

15:56That's the man thing. Doing the right thing? I would say Harris. Harris? Yeah. Well, I didn't think she got a first bull run. Uh-huh. Wasn't enough time for her to get in, but she needed to as far as getting the word out for what she could actually implement. If anything at all, just, you know, talk to people in the hole. You just think that she had too little bit of time last time? I'll ask you. What do you think? I would be, I would go over her again if she ran again. Uh-huh. But do you want her to run again? I don't know if I want her subjected to all she had to be subject to. Uh-huh. Yours seems to be more like you don't want to see her go through that again?

16:31Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Now, is that something, is that a penalty of, like, racism and sexism you think would apply to any black woman running? Absolutely. Yeah. So this isn't Harris considered. Okay, so I'm just going to tell you straight up, I'm not a chump. And when you're dealing with the resublicans, you have to, you really have to step up and be ready to deal with them. And I think Gavin Newsom, he's ready to throw punches. He's not afraid of them. He won't back down, you know, from them. so I'm hoping that we can have, if not Kamala, which I think she won't back down either, but if not Kamala, I just wanted to be someone with a backbone.

17:10Okay, I'm going to put you in this box, though. The election is, primary is today, and you have to choose between Newsom and Harris. Who you vote for? I'm still rolling with Harris. I'm rolling with Harris all the way.

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