Lonely fans

0:01Noel King:A new type of online influencer just dropped, or so we're told, loneliness influencers. These young women don't brag about their vacations or their possessions. They've gained big followings just from posting videos about being alone. Being a content creator is so fucking lonely. Are you lonely? I'm lonely sometimes. Not quite like that, no. These videos are often much quieter and they're captioned with things like, POV, you're a single and child-free girl that has no friends and lives alone. And it's a Saturday night. POV, you live alone in NYC and have no friends. So this is how you spend your night after work.

0:40They say they aren't unhappy. It's been two years since I last had a friend or any romantic feelings for anyone. And I've never been happier.

0:46Noel King:Coming up on Today Explained, we're going to ask her some questions.

0:59Support for this show today comes from Anthropic, the team behind Claude. Claude is the AI for minds that don't stop at good enough. It's the collaborator that actually understands your entire workflow and thinks with you. Whether you're debugging code at midnight or strategizing your next business move, Claude extends your thinking to tackle the problems that matter. With deep research, Claude's research capabilities go way deeper than basic web search. comprehensive, reliable analysis with proper citations, turning hours of research into minutes. For problems worth solving, you can get started with Claude at Claude.ai slash Today Explained.

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2:39Noel King:Today's brain. Lana Issa is 24 years old. She has a good job in software sales, and she lives in and works from a very nice apartment somewhere in Canada. In her videos online, she spends a lot of time by herself. Now, this is something that she's used to. In elementary school, I was always like, I was never one of the more popular kids. I was never antisocial. Like, I definitely tried to talk to the other kids. But I think I always had my own little interests. And I was always a really big reader. So I would, like, sit in the library and, like, read or whatever. But I find that, like, the kid that would always, like, run away and, like, read in a corner was never really the most, I guess, the most accepted hobby.

3:18Noel King:So she did the thing in high school where she tried to be less of a reader, LOL, and more of a cool girl, but she felt like she was faking it. But I think I kind of ended up in an area where you would make surface level friends that don't really like you for who you are because you're pretending to be someone you're not. And I think that those type of experiences led me to just kind of be someone that really enjoys their time alone. And yeah, just like generally a girl enjoying her life. Now this girl enjoying her life is being called a loneliness influencer. In her videos, she posts about being single and child-free and having no friends.

3:56Noel King:Lena, what am I going to be seeing when I watch one of your videos? Just generally a normal night in my life. I think when I first started filming these videos, I had no intention of making it like an aesthetic vlog or anything like that. I really wanted to kind of convey a normal life of somebody that doesn't have this big, great, fun social life. So I wanted to just kind of show something a little bit different. Like, what does a life look like as someone that doesn't really have this great big social life, is not really interested in dating, and generally prefers nights in? So if you're going to watch a Friday night in my life, you'd essentially just watch a girl enjoying her peace.

4:34I'm wearing pajamas and I'm about to go get ice cream for dinner. I'm already having an early night, so I figured I would bake a cake. Because why not?

4:41Noel King:And you're embracing it. You're not saying I'm 24, I'm single, I don't have friends to hang out with tonight, and I feel wretched. You're saying, and I'm happy about it. That's exactly it. And that's exactly what I was, that's the goal of it. When I initially started making these videos and I kind of was like formatting these titles and like how I want it to look, I was like, I really want the title of the video to kind of be like wham, bam, bam of like a bunch of things that I don't have. So people think that they're about to watch this like very sad routine of somebody that like is not enjoying their life.

5:19Life with no friends, no kids, no marriage. I left my apartment this week. Life with no friends, no kids, no marriage. Weight gain, feeling off, cooking and eating my cravings. Life with no friends, no kids, no marriage. How I ended up like this. Throughout the video, I like always try to highlight the things that I'm really enjoying and like how peaceful it is. I know what I've learned. I know what I've been through. I have a very strong understanding of how obviously all of that has correlated into who I am today. And I'm currently at peace. I'm happy with my life. I'm happy with what I'm working on.

5:52It was always like a little play on like the expectation of how people might feel if they're single and live alone and don't have a great big social life versus like my actual reality, which is like, I like this. And from the response that I've gotten, especially from women, there's a lot of like-minded people out there that also like this life, you know?

6:13Noel King:Yeah, you have something like 200 ,000 followers, which is a lot of people watching what you do. What have you heard from people? Why do you think you're growing? I think there's definitely two types of viewers. I kind of noted, like when I started these videos, I had no idea who I would, like what type of audience I would kind of cater to. I actually thought I would get like girls in their 20s who also don't want a friend like that's really what I thought my audience would be but it actually grew into something a lot cooler and just like a lot of different lifestyles like I have viewers that you know are married and have families but think this is so fun and like relaxing because it makes them think of what their life was like before and they love their family and their current lives but they also love their previous life right which is the goal like I think you should try to make the most of every stage of your life and I really like those type of viewers um and then there's also the women who live similar lifestyles and love the representation or they love seeing um i'll have like a a millennial or like a little bit older audience base that is like really happy to see the younger generation kind of embracing this focusing on yourself prioritizing yourself your career your goals over relationships especially romantic relationships um and just like finding yourself i and i i see like so much knowledge like a wealth of knowledge in those women and i love it when they leave comments about their life stories or like what they experienced to lead them to this and how they're so happy to see that like the newer or like not the newer but the current generations kind of learn these lessons without going through like the i guess the big fallout you know what i mean yeah yeah so it's it's been very cool to see the different type of people that kind of watch this these type of videos do you respond to people who leave comments on your on your videos I don't respond to as many people as I'd want to I try to respond to like questions or you know I like comments that are like very very descriptive and like share like a compassionate story about their life that I truly like feel and resonate with um but I draw like a pretty serious line with like how much time I'm spending scrolling through social media.

8:26That is a very, like, I'm sure this will lead into your next question, but do I feel like my social life is getting fulfilled by social media? The answer to that question is no, I do not feel like my social life is getting fulfilled by social media because the moment I close my phone, my apartment's quiet, I'm still alone. And because I had gotten to such a point where I was at like so much peace in my life when I started filming these videos, I almost felt like reading way too many opinions would disrupt my peace a little bit. I think that my creativity and like, just like generally my life thrives a little bit more when I spend a little bit less time on social media.

9:03So I don't have the time to respond to everybody. No. Okay.

9:07Noel King:So online is not a satisfying social life. What is your social life then? I'm not saying it's not a satisfying social life. I'm saying that it doesn't replace what a social life would be. Ah, okay. Okay. And I think that's kind of the accusation or people's takeaway from my videos is they're like, well, you, you know, get these type of, you're putting your life out there, getting a bunch of responses on it. That's probably replacing a social life for you. But I spent two years alone before I ever filmed a video. Reading comments is not the same thing as having people around you. You know what I mean?

9:38I'm not a hundred percent opposed to like making friends or anything like that ever again it's more so like I just went through like some hard times and obviously I was trying to find myself I didn't want to go through hard times and then jump into other friendships where I feel like I'm doing the same thing of pretending to be someone I'm not and accepting treatment that I don't think you know is aligned with what I'm looking for and I would be open to making friends again in the future it was just about like finding myself and enjoying my life and making sure that those friends that I find in the future are 100 % right for me and I'm right for them.

10:13And we actually fulfill each other's lives instead of bringing any negativity or anything like that to each other. So it's basically just spending, you know, a lot of time by myself. I have a really close relationship with my family and, but I don't rely on them for social interaction. I just like enjoy speaking to my family and I would in any way, but just making the most of my life alone until I meet the right people.

10:38Noel King:A lot of what you're showing in your videos does not seem all that... I mean, I'm not one of the people that looks at your videos and thinks, oh my goodness, how awful. There is one thing about your videos that made me incredibly sad. You went to see the movie Obsession by yourself. Obsession is the scariest movie ever made. Bear, I love you so, so, so, so, so much. I don't think I could live without you. I tried to crawl into my friend's body. I got so scared watching that movie. And you're sitting there in a theater and you're like, white knuckling it, I'm imagining alone. Are there moments?

11:18Noel King:So that was a moment for me where I'm like, this girl needs a friend. Are there moments for you where you're like, I really, I really wish I had had a friend there. I really do need to go out and meet someone so I don't have to watch Obsession alone. You know what? In the theater was like actually fine I found that like it was such a full theater and there was like so much like so many people were being like funny like nobody was being annoying but there was a lot of like reactions and like it was very funny so it felt interactive I will say like when I left it would have been fun to like debrief what I just watched with people because I was like oh my god that was so that was so creepy like I have actually seen a lot of horror movies in my life I was not expecting that to be that genuinely creepy.

12:00So yeah, I get what you're saying. I wouldn't say that was one of those instances where I truly felt like I wish there was someone else here, but I get what you're saying. It would have been cool if there were people around me that I could chat with. There are moments, yeah, like sometimes like I live in a lake town and like sometimes I'll drive downtown on like a nice, beautiful Saturday night or something. Like I mentioned earlier, patios are full I'm like that would be cool you know but those are just like fleeting moments typically um and I think if I got to the point where I was genuinely having those thoughts very very often and like feeling so ready to like share experiences and moments with other people I would put the effort into finding friends I'm not saying it'll be easy I just haven't gotten to that point yet and I don't know if I will I never try to say this is the way it is and it'll be like this forever, but I'm okay right now, you know?

13:00Noel King:She is Lana Issa. She's been called a loneliness influencer. Our next guest has written about these young women, and they are mostly women, and she says this is part of a broader problem.

13:45Noel King:We'll be right back. adapts to your unique business, letting you know when stock is low, recommending the best carrier selections and rates, and automating tasks to save you time. Also, you can stay one step ahead. Their features eliminate the need for multiple tools in your workflow, like inventory syncing across your sales channels, a branded returns portal that helps turn returns into revenue, automatic rate shopping, plus integrations with accounting and CRM software. The sooner you switch, the sooner you start saving time and money. Get started with ShipStation today and get 60 days It's free at ShipStation.com with code today.

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16:40It's that pivotal moment. It's impossible. Today explained. Unstoppable. Hi, I'm Faith Hill. I'm a staff writer for The Atlantic.

16:54Noel King:In the first half of the show, we talked to a young woman who has made a name for herself as a loneliness influencer. I know that you've written about this trend. We asked her what she thinks is going on. You kind of took a 3 ,000-foot perspective. What do you think is going on here? Yeah, I mean, I think sort of my first, you know, impulse when I heard about this kind of genre of video that people are watching is, you know, that there's a lot of people spending a ton of time alone. We've heard a lot of people talk about, you know, a loneliness epidemic. Dr. Vivek Murthy, the U.S. Surgeon General, says loneliness is an epidemic.

17:30It can have profound effects on mental health as well as heart disease, stroke and dementia. Social isolation can be as deadly as smoking up to 15 cigarettes a day. So I thought maybe people were getting sort of social connection through these, you know, videos from a safe distance rather than spending time in person with people. And I think, you know, maybe there's some of that going on. But I also realized as I was looking through these videos and reading all the comments that a lot of the people commenting, you know, seem to have a lot going on in their lives socially. so much so that, you know, they were sort of busy and exhausted and burned out, overextended.

18:13For some people, the appeal was actually in kind of the fantasy of it, like in the way that some people would, you know, look at influencers posting about these, you know, fabulous exotic vacations they can't afford to take. My husband is bored without me and always wants me around. On the other hand, I absolutely love my time without him. As someone with a husband and two kids in a crazy busy life, thank you for sharing your calm and quiet life. It's a needed break from the chaos of my life. I think, you know, a lot of people have a very complicated relationship to solitude. It's definitely true.

18:54There's a lot of people, you know, spending a ton of time alone these days and, you know, people partying less and ordering in more. But also, you know, people are working long hours, a lot of people taking care of family members without much help. Many people are sort of torn between these needs for social connection and solitude.

19:17Noel King:People are looking at the loneliness influencers and thinking, wow, I wish I had a Friday night to myself once in a while with nothing to do. Does that mean that this is perhaps not as sad as it appears on its face? Yeah, you know, I don't think it's all sad. I think, I mean, my heart goes out to people who are needing more solitude, as well as more social connection. You know, I think most people probably don't have the perfect balance. And I can relate to that myself. You know, I feel like I either have too many plans, too much going on or not enough. So, you know, I think it's not necessarily all happy, but I do think it doesn't mean that there are just so many people out there who are only getting social connection through these videos.

20:05Like, I think there's something a little more complicated going on.

20:08Noel King:It's worth noting that most of these influencers are women, young women. And the reason that we wanted to talk to you is because you have written about a kind of dovetailing situation where we understand in the U.S. now men to be in crisis. We've all heard about the male loneliness crisis, men's achievements in education, college graduation, men not being the breadwinners anymore. You wrote a very interesting piece that basically said actually women are in crisis as well. Yeah. So, I mean, as you're saying, I've just been hearing so much about men and especially young men being in crisis. And I think there's a lot of reasons, you know, we should take that seriously.

20:50And I do. But I felt like in those conversations, young women were kind of being flattened into just like a comparison point where, you know, instead of people talking about how on some measures young men are struggling more than they used to, it kind of got twisted into young men are struggling more than women. And in that kind of conversation, women become like this sort of symbol for flourishing. There's kind of this image of like the thriving girl boss, you know, the one who is going to college, graduating college, entering the workforce on these conventional measures of success, you know, doing so well.

21:35But if you actually look at some of these statistics, you know, young women are struggling a lot on a lot of these measures and in some cases, you know, more than young men. And so I don't think it needs to be a suffering competition, but I did think like part of the story was not kind of coming through. In what ways are women struggling? Tell me about it. Women have, you know, for a long time reported depression and anxiety at higher rates than men. And that is, you know, getting worse. It seems like mental health on a lot of different measures, different kinds of stress and distress and suicidality.

22:11You know, young women are reporting that at higher and higher rates. It seems to be getting worse over time. And but it turns out that women actually attempt suicide at higher rates than men do on average. And the reason that more men die of suicide is that they're more likely to use lethal means such as firearms. I think a lot of times this conversation, you know, it really revolves around like college attendance rates. And women are, you know, attending and graduating college at higher rates than men. But a woman with a bachelor's degree still makes less than a man with a bachelor's degree on average within the same field of study.