Nancy Pelosi explains her optimism

0:00Astead Herndon:It's crunch time at work and you need to bring wings to your workday. Visit RedBull.com slash GettingItDone and answer a couple questions about your work style to get a Spotify customized playlist tuned to your productivity. Plus, score a can of Red Bull on us while you go from to-do to done. And remember, Red Bull gives you wings. Supplies are limited. Terms apply. Visit the website for more information. So, question. Who's the most consequential American elected official over the last, say, 25 years? Donald Trump is the obvious answer. But you could say Barack Obama, Mitch McConnell. But I'd argue Nancy Pelosi, the former House Speaker and congressional leader of Democrats who shepherded countless legislation over the Obama years and some during the Trump years.

0:48Astead Herndon:She's about to turn 86 next week, and her fingerprints are all over the most consequential legislation that have passed through Congress over the last couple decades. Now, Pelosi is set to retire after this midterm elections. But before that, I had the chance to talk with her at this year's South by Southwest conference. And I wanted to put in front of her all the questions that I had. What made her stick around Congress after she almost was going to retire in 2016? How would she define her legacy? And of course, considering the political violence that she's been around, from January 6th to what happened in her own family, how does she retain faith in an electorate that seems to consistently be letting her down?

1:28Astead Herndon:I asked her that and more in front of a packed house in Texas. Let's dig in.

1:41Astead Herndon:we are so grateful that speaker pelosi has come to south by southwest to talk with us at today explained now i'm so excited for this conversation not just because of the long legacy that you have in congress in san francisco but also to really get a sense of how you view that legacy yourself you won your first seat at 47. You kind of mentioned this towards the end, but I know there's a lot of people here at South By that, you know, are in their 20s and 30s, are looking to make, are eager to make an impact. I wanted to know what you learned about timing and purpose from your own career, considering kind of you took a journey to get to where you are.

2:18Well, first of all, I had no intention of running for office, as I said. I had five children and six years and seven days. I keep reminding my archbishop, but, and the, one of them was going to go into senior year in high school. I was approached to run for Congress. And I said, well, I've never had that ambition. I loved advancing other people, but I had no ambition myself to be the one on the line. And so I went to Alexandra, and she was 16, young for going into senior year. I said, Alexandra, mommy's been asked to run for Congress. I'll leave it up to you. If you think, I'll tell you what it is.

3:01It is, you know, about three nights a week I'll be gone when Congress is in session, and it's not always in session. So what do you think, yes or no? She said, mother, mother. Now, remember I said mommy. Mother, get a life. And I had never heard that expression before. This was a long time ago. What teenage girl does not want her mother out of the house three nights a week? So then I did. And then later people asked me to run for leadership, and that was another step forward. But it wasn't, that's why I keep saying to young women especially who ask me that, just know your why, why you would do it.

3:45And my why was one in five children in America goes to sleep hungry at night or lives in poverty. And that was my why. Know your why because this is a rough and tumble business. and you can take the punches if you know why it's happening and you can throw the punches for the children if that's your why.

4:07Astead Herndon:You know, the slogan for your first campaign was Nancy Pelosi, a voice that will be heard. And I love that. Like, what did that mean to you then? And when you look back 30, 40-ish years later, what does it mean to you now? Well, it was sort of interesting that they would have that, a voice that will be heard the campaign decided that would be it because they know that I knew a lot of people in politics having been the party chair and that. And so it worked though, because who would have thought that a voice that would be heard would become the Speaker of the House? So they all take great pride in their prediction.

4:45Astead Herndon:What was the transition like going from behind the scenes, you know, as you were organizing chair of the Democratic Party to making their transition to a candidate yourself? and specifically, like, you know, how did you deal with the public perception of it all? Was that a transition? Well, it was a transition. And the only, see, I don't really like to talk about the past. I like to talk about the future. We'll get there. So for me, I sort of got used to it right away. They told me when you go to Congress, you love the issues. That's what motivates you to be in the political arena and volunteer and recruit candidates and advance them.

5:21So do it yourself. You know, you love the issues and that was issue driven. And that's really, you know, it's not about yourself then. It's about what you're there, your purpose while you're there.

5:36Astead Herndon:You know, certainly the legacy of issues of legislation has been one that is undeniable. From the American Recovery Act to Dodd-Frank to the Affordable Care Act, you have shepherded through legislation. It's changed all of our lives. Now, you've been called the most effective speaker in history. I wanted to know, like, what is the skill or trait that you think made you so effective? Because we've seen, obviously, you know, in Trump years and others, that job ain't so easy. So why were you so good at it? The thing about it is that when you're a legislator, you have one, shall we say, dynamic at work.

6:13You have hearings. You have public comment. You do all those things. And so you have time to make a decision. When you become the speaker or the governor or the mayor or whatever, but the executive position, you then have to act. It's act. And the reason you have to act is because if you don't act immediately, people think, oh, she's going to think about it. And while she does, we'll take this option away or that option away. So nine times out of ten, you will be correct, or it will work because it will work, and then you get the reputation that it will work, and that's that. But it is really important to just make sure people trust your judgment, that you know what you're talking about, you know how to get something done.

7:08The other thing is nothing really happens, and this probably goes back to my childhood and being party chair, nothing really good happens unless you have the outside mobilization. Inside maneuver, outside mobilization. And that is, like President Lincoln said, I'm quoting a Republican president now, but President Lincoln said, public sentiment is everything. With it, you can accomplish almost anything. Without it, practically nothing. But for public sentiment to prevail, people have to know. So you have to get it out there and engage public sentiment. And that is for everything.

7:52Astead Herndon:I want to get back to the question of public sentiment. But before that, you sold CNN's Anderson Cooper something that I really found interesting. You said that you thought America, you assumed that America would be much more ready for a woman president than they would be for a woman Speaker of the House. because you assumed that the Boys Club of Washington was more tight and rigid than maybe the American people's sentiments were. Of course, that hasn't turned out that way. And I guess I wanted to ask, what should we take from that? Was the Boys Club of D.C. less rigid, or was the sexism of the American people just maybe more than what we thought?

8:25When I ran for leadership, even though other people had encouraged me to run for it, but when I said I was running for leadership, the guys said, who said she could run? Poor babies. Like I'd be waiting for them to say I could run. A, and B, then they'd say, well, why don't you all just make a list of things that the women want and we'll do those. What? This is in this century. Really? It's not a glass ceiling. It's a marble ceiling. And they all had it lined up. You go next and I'll go next and I'll go next. And we're like, well, you know what? We've been waiting over 200 years. We're breaking in line so that we don't have a woman speaker.

9:04But I was a woman speaker because I, well, I won the election.

9:14You win, you get the gavel. And the gavel makes a big difference.

9:18Astead Herndon:Your story is so built on kind of faith in the American people. And it seems as if that is kind of core to your trust about them and elections and such. But, you know, I wanted to kind of gut check that. You've been set to retire in 2016 and 2024. And, you know, Americans elected a president that surprised you and many others and have kind of forced you back into office. There's been some tough moments. I'm thinking about the horrible attack on your husband in 2022 or things even like the January 6th riots where you were in the building. How are you retaining this kind of optimism in the American electorate when it doesn't always seem as if that has been returned to you?

9:59Let me just say I didn't finish the part about the woman president yet. I do think that American people are ready for a woman president. I don't think there's a misogynism about it. I just think that you just have to get out there and compete.

10:14Astead Herndon:It just hasn't happened? It just hasn't happened. We've had great people. Hillary Clinton was probably the best qualified person to run for president, better qualified than her husband. I love the Bushes, but she was better qualified and better qualified than Barack Obama. He admits that. but it just didn't happen. But it will. More from Nancy Pelosi in a minute. Score more with the college-branded Venmo debit card and earn up to 5 % cash back with Venmo Stash. Got paid back? With the Venmo debit card, you can instantly access your balance and spend on what you want, like game day snacks, gear, tickets, and more.

10:53Astead Herndon:The more you do, the more cash back you can earn. Plus, there's no monthly fee or minimum balance. Sign up now at Venmo.com slash college card. The Venmo MasterCard is issued by the Bancorp Bank N.A. Select schools available. Venmo stash terms and exclusions apply at Venmo.me slash stash terms. Max$100 cash back per month. We're back. It's Today Explained Saturday, and I'm here with former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. I want to ask about your trust in Americans. I mean, it seems as if— Let's go back to—because it's the 250th anniversary of our country, and this is a glorious thing. our founders were such geniuses they were so remarkable in what they put together a country that was more remarkable than anything that anybody had ever seen based on the greatest sentence ever that all men and women are created equal but they believed in the goodness of the American people that didn't mean every single person but it meant the goodness and that's what gives me optimism optimism now, I do believe in the inherent goodness of the American people.

12:01If they know, again, public sentiment, if they know what all this means to them, they will make the right judgments.

12:09Astead Herndon:And that faith is unshaken, even from those type of moments I've mentioned, of being in the Capitol, of seeing the kind of growth of political violence. I mean, it seems as if those moments could be something that could shake that belief. It doesn't sound like it has. It was horrible. I mean, they were coming after, They were going to put a bullet in my F-word head and they were going to hang the vice president. I mean, this is an insurrection that was incited by the president of the United States. Nobody expects the president of the United States to do that. Nor did our founders expect that. So you have to put it as an aberration.

12:44What is discouraging is when they try to change the narrative of what that was all about. But nonetheless, we will win the election. in November. There's absolutely no question. I've got to guarantee that. The Democrats will take the House, maybe so big that the Senate as well, and the Hakeem Jeffries will become the Speaker of the House. That's an absolute guarantee. People say to me, you sound arrogant. I'm not arrogant. I'm confident. I know this will happen because we're making a decision that it will, and we will make every decision in favor to make sure that it does.

13:21Astead Herndon:I mean, that was certainly my next question. What informs that confidence? I mean, to, you know, I certainly know that there's a lot of evidence of a backlash to Donald Trump as we speak, but that doesn't necessarily mean that people would prefer Democrats as the other option. How are you so sure that Democrats take back the House and possibly win the Senate in November? Not only are we going to win, we're going to win substantially. I'm a politician. I say that very confidently and proudly. You have to have, I say, the three Ms. To win an election, you have to mobilize. You have to own the ground.

13:57because we know the American people are good. We know that what we want to do is in their interest. We just have to make sure they, in other words, that people say, oh, people voted against their interest. No, they know what their interests are. We respect that. And by the way, our whole democracy is at stake. You know that. Our whole democracy is, what is a democracy? Freedom for elections, independent judiciary, due process, rule of law, separation of power. We're not a monarchy. We're a democracy. But we save the democracy at the kitchen table. You know, at the kitchen table. So what we're talking about in terms of lowering cost, affordability, of course, but in people's terms, lowering cost of health care and groceries and education and whatever it is, it's what they are telling us they are voting on.

14:58Okay, message, mobilization, and the money to get it done. Now, they will have endless money. Endless. Endless money. Endless. We don't have that. We have the people, and we'll have enough because we have to win the election.

15:19Astead Herndon:If we think about those three M's, message, mobilization, and money, where were Democrats lacking to bring us to this point? I mean, if we think about 2024, which one of those M's was the failure? I think that in the messaging, I think in the last election, not to relitigate what went wrong or this or that, but I think they out-technologied us. What do you mean by that? The technology has moved. 2006 is like ancient history, 18 even, way back when. And so you have to leapfrog over it because the technology and how people communicate with each other. If people don't think they're getting the message, you ain't communicating.

16:00Astead Herndon:I see. I hear you. Let's take your certainty that Democrats— It's not about what they didn't do. It's about what we are doing now. Okay. Future. Let's take your certainty that Democrats do in the House. I want to ask about that kind of impact. I think right now there's a big question about trust in institutions or trust in elected officials. Considering just how much Congress has seemed to step back from its own authority, what do you think is the importance of this midterms? And, you know, if you're someone who's kind of skeptical and says, OK, Democrats win the House, but Donald Trump's going to do whatever he wants to do.

16:34Astead Herndon:What is Speaker Pelosi's response to that? Well, let me just say, first of all, that Congress hasn't stepped back. The Republicans in Congress have abdicated, have abolished, they have abolished the House of Representatives. They have just given the president free reign. The Senate somewhat, too, but they have a little different rules. In the Constitution, the House of Representatives gets very big power. You know Congress is Article I of the Constitution. But even within that, the House has the power of the purse, starts in the House, declare war, issues like that that are fundamental to the Constitution and the rest.

17:13Astead Herndon:They've abdicated. They've just abdicated. So when we have, and even now you're seeing some changes, we've got 17 votes on the health care bill. Some of those people are seeing that they've got to be more afraid of their constituents than they are of Donald Trump. If Democrats take back the House, would, you know, last time that you all have the House under a Donald Trump presidency, there were those two impeachments. Yeah. Is that something you think if Democrats take back the House this November, we should expect as likely going forward? The only person responsible for the impeachment of Donald Trump, not once, but twice, is Donald Trump.

17:51He gave us no choice. He gave us no choice. He gave us no choice. So I don't think you go out and start with saying we're going to impeach. No, he gave us no choice. We'll see what he does. But winning is about the people. It's not about him. It's about the people meeting their kitchen table needs so that they have confidence. And we have to restore that. And the best way to do that is to listen to the people. and one of the reasons I'm excited about having so many women in Congress, when I came to Congress, we made a decision that we were going to recruit and support and all the rest, and now we have on the Democratic side like 95, 96 Democratic women.

18:39And we're going to have more, and we're going to have more. The Republicans moved up to about 30. When young women, when women having families or women in the workplace see somebody who has shared their experience making decisions or listening to them and understanding their challenges, and women still have these challenges, then that's a good thing. They feel confident because somebody who has experiences like theirs is making that decision.

19:09Astead Herndon:I wanted to ask a question from a Vox audience member. They asked about the Save America Act. Trump told House Republicans this week that this bill will, quote, guarantee the midterms and he won't sign any other legislation until it's done. Democrats have called it voter suppression, dressed up as patriotism. Donald Trump is saying that the requirement of proof of citizenship is important and that he doesn't understand why Democrats wouldn't support it. Why do you or do you not support the Save America? Oh, I absolutely totally completely oppose it. Tell us why. It's a disgraceful insult to our founders who created this country as a democracy and the rest.

19:45Some of the things that are in it would say that if you want to go register to vote, you have to bring a passport to prove your citizenship. How many people do you think carry around a passport? Actually, the fact is, more Democrats do than Republicans, but he'll find that out. Secondly, okay, so I'm Nancy D 'Alessandro Pelosi. If I go to vote, if I go to vote and I say I'm Nancy Pelosi, no, you weren't born that way. In terms of going to register to vote, you've got to go get your birth certificate. It's hard for seniors. It's hard for people in rural areas. He wants it to say that you can't vote by mail.

20:30Really? You can't vote by mail? That's how our military votes overseas. That's how many seniors or people with disabilities voted. Many people vote by mail. But he hasn't gotten that in the bill yet. We are told that the Senate is not going to pass it. But he is saying, I won't sign any other bills unless I get that. Now, there's a long list of things that are objectionable in the so-called SAVE Act that are so wrong. It's almost criminal in what it does to take away the right to vote of people

21:06Astead Herndon:You know speaking of the current president you've said that donald trump is a quote vile creature But you said that was a euphemism for what you really wanted to say This is south by southwest. I was gonna let you end on this note. Do you want to tell us how you really feel? Well, I do believe that If you're president of the united states, you have a certain responsibility to live up to honoring the vision of our founders. And of course, you're tearing apart everything that they are about to make a democracy, as I said before. Independent judiciary, free and fair elections, freedom of the press, rule of law, due process.

21:49The beauty of the Constitution, the exquisite beauty of the Constitution is the separation of power. They didn't want a monarch. They did everything in the Constitution to make sure we didn't have one. So he's smashed all of that, A. B, one of my big issues coming to Congress was saving the planet. Forget about it. They have it in his pocket of the fossil fuel industry, and so we're taking so many steps away from clean air, clean water. But you have to honor the vision of our founders, be grateful for the sacrifice of our men and women in uniform who have fought for our freedom and other freedom in the world and not call them losers when you're at a cemetery for a deceased soldier.

22:36Honor that and then, of course, the aspirations of our children. Forget about that as far as he is concerned. He is what he is. We're going to win in November. Remember, you're going to see a big change in how the separation of powers works, not how it is abdicated to the president. And, of course, there's a big issue of corruption in this administration as well. But look, see what Hakeem Jeffries is saying to the Democrats, because it's about kitchen table needs. It's about honoring the vision of our founders. It's about ending corruption. in this government, and that's what I think of him.

23:18Astead Herndon:We'll end on a lightning quick answer. If you could think about your career beyond the policy legislation, beyond the tangible impact you've made on many folks' lives, what makes you most proud? What makes me most proud is that when I say we went from 12 to 96 of 95 women in Congress, It was not just that, but just the complete reaching out and involving many more people in the process, telling them, you can do this. There's nobody like you in the history of the world like you. You're special. However you were raised, however you were educated, whatever environment you enjoyed playing and stuff when you grew up.