The case for renting forever

0:00Jonquilyn Hill:Support for Explain It To Me comes from Fetch Pet Insurance. Do you have a pet? According to a study from a few years ago, every six seconds, a pet owner in the U.S. gets hit with a bill over$1 ,000, and it's almost always an unwelcome surprise. That's where Fetch Pet Insurance comes in. According to ConsumerAdvocate.org, Fetch is the most complete pet insurance for dogs and cats. You get paid back up to 90 % of vet bills. You can use Fetch for any vet in the U.S. and Canada. Every vet is a network. Go to FetchPet.com slash save right now for your free quote. That's FetchPet.com slash save. Support for Today Explained comes from ServiceNow.

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1:18That's my take. Hi, thanks, Sarah.

1:22Jonquilyn Hill:Oh, hi. Oh, hi. Hi. The other day, my producer Kelly and I went to a quiet residential neighborhood in D.C. to visit NPR host Aisha Roscoe. Yes, so I just picked them up from school. It's a two-story white and brick home with a front and backyard and pumpkins out on the porch. Inside, it's shoes off, homework out, Aisha's sprinkling Old Bay on salmon for dinner. I can be a little skeptical of the American dream, but honestly, when I look at Aisha, she's living it. She has a great job, an active social life, and she lives in her own home that's full of people she cares about and that care for her.

2:10Jonquilyn Hill:And the key to it all? Her best friend. No, she lost it, uh, yeah, before I came to a picture. That's Jasmine Melvin. She and Aisha met back in college when they both worked at the student newspaper. Flash forward 15 years, and between the two of them, they have five kids ages 7 to 12. And they all live under the same roof. We just come in, I make the food. I'm John Golan Hill, and this week on Explained to Me from Vox, we're rethinking the way we live.

2:44Jonquilyn Hill:So you may have noticed that the housing market still sucks. That means a lot of us are trying new things, whether it's moving in with your best friend, using old housing in new ways, or bypassing that white picket fence altogether. Our options have changed, and we're changing with them. For Jasmine and Aisha, their decision to blend their families wasn't just a practical one. It was financial, too. They decided to buy that house together. We were both going through this transition in our lives. We had both gotten divorced. We're dealing, you know, trying to get our kids together and do all of that on our own, which is really hard.

3:27And I think we both realized, like, we could use some support. but it's hard even when you want to help each other out when one friend is like 40 minutes away or 30 minutes away it's like and you have kids they might as well be on the other side of the planet we would always say even when we were married like wouldn't it be great if we were next door neighbors or whatever it's like our next houses need to be beside each other it'd be so much easier and the kids at the same school that's a big thing when the kids are at the same school the schedules just sync up so much better yeah so then I think I brought it up to you and was like well what would you think if we moved in together and i was like see i've been thinking the same thing but i thought you would think i was crazy but then dc prices we was like we were going to the open houses and seeing what we want yes and you know that would be easier with combining our budget yeah and going in on it together yeah how do you all figure out the division

4:23Jonquilyn Hill:of labor like I don't know I think I mean we're both moms so the mentality is it's just who's there and we get it done yeah and then once we're home together I guess we play to our strengths um Aisha gets home a little earlier with the kids than I do so she'll start dinner then when I get home then I can start helping the kids with homework you know in a situation like this you do have to kind of go with the flow it can't be like I if you're the type of person who can't have anything out of place you you can't really this is not gonna work and I mean with kids I don't know how that works anyway and then I think because we're not romantically involved you don't have that like you know do you love me do you respect me do you like all of that stuff that comes along with it or the and then and then the traditional gender roles like oh you have to do the cooking and cleaning and I'll you know take out the trash it all gets we all have to do it yeah it has to get done so we figure out how to get it done without all the emotional stuff tied to it when you first told people about this arrangement what's the reaction i think positive like oh that's so interesting yeah a lot of people wrap their head around it but they're like that's such a good idea yeah and i think people were like you know a lot of people were like i always wanted to do that with my best friend or whatever i do think like when it was like okay we're gonna buy a house together i think that was a little more like okay are you sure about that because that is a big investment to do together but i mean like you know i've said this before it's like Like, you know, if you've, you know, we've been best friends for like 15 years.

5:55I think it's more than 15 years, actually. But it's like if I met a man and I fall in love, we, you know, in two years, we could be, you know, buying houses, having a baby, doing, you know, everything jointly. Right. And no one would look no one would bat an eye at that. Right. Like and you've known this person for two years. But because you're romantically together, people feel like, oh, that makes sense. and so when I looked at that I was like well whoever I would end up with I wouldn't know them nearly as well as I know Jasmine so why would I feel more comfortable doing that with them versus buying a house with someone who I've been through thick and thin with seen in crises done all this stuff with um and so that's why it made sense to me have there been any growing pains I think with the kids with the kids yeah with the kids because they have to get used they I mean they know each other they've grown up since they were newborn since they were in utero yes they were with each other but living together is different yeah yeah

6:53Jonquilyn Hill:what was it like telling them how did they respond when it was like okay we're all gonna be living in a house together initially it was all excitement is basically sleep over every night yes yeah that's the thing when we just uh i mean look they they fight like cats and dogs but they fight like brothers and sisters right like that's they fight like siblings but then they get over They get over it really quickly. No, you have one saying, oh, get out my room, get out my room. I guarantee you, if we go look where they're all out, they're all sitting on the couch together, side by side, trying to make room all playing together.

7:25Yeah, or it's like, I don't want to be around any of you as I sit where everyone is. There are lots of rooms in this house. There are lots of places you can go. I don't want to be around you. It's like, yeah. So their actions kind of speak louder than their words on that.

7:44Jonquilyn Hill:What's it like combining finances with your friend? Because I feel like money is the thing where, you know, whether it's romantic family, friends, money is a thing that can make every relationship stressful. What has that been like? And what's that like? Yeah, well, I think it helps that we are both financially stable on our own. We're not like pinching every penny. If I'm watching all the kids, I may order them pizza or the McDonald's. I'm not. Hey, can you cash at me your kids part? because I know she'll pick it up the next time when she's getting things for my kids. And my thing is always, and I think we have both always been like this our whole friendship.

8:19If I eat, you eat. If I got it, you gonna have it. That's the way we get down. And so it's not like, it's not this thing where we're like nickel and diming each other. Annalise, why you up here? I'm with the bathroom. What? What do you do? We're doing an interview. Okay. All right. Okay. Okay, close the door. shut the door shut the door shut the door and see this is see now this is the real come out

8:46Jonquilyn Hill:i'm curious what has this experience given you that the quote-unquote traditional living experience um doesn't i'd say just kind of building on the friendship and motherhood kind of all together and i also think just like being able to bond in a way that isn't surrounded with like romance right like because i love romance y 'all look it's a problem i'm like i am a lover girl it's sad but that comes with this own set of things but it can be stressful and i think like not having that and being able to build a bond that's really based on love and respect and trust i know this is my friend i know this is my sister i know we good and I know people always talk about chosen family but then it's really you know rubber meets the road when you're like bringing your kids into it right it's interesting because I think a lot of the time we do think of like romantic relationships like oh we're gonna take it to the next level but oh you can take your friendships to the next level yes yeah like yeah that's the thing you can take your friendship to the next level like I said it's a unique situation because we didn't think we was both gonna be divorced pushing forward and that was not the plan That was not our plan for life.

10:10But God said, look, but you still have another life that you can build, right? Like it didn't work out the way you thought it would. But it can still work out in a different way.

10:26Jonquilyn Hill:Okay, so the plan has changed for a lot of us. But could that mean that we actually have more options? That's next.

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12:52Jonquilyn Hill:I'm JQ, and we're back with Explain It to Me. When you live with your best friend and her kids, you can share meals and drop-offs and homework. That was a big draw for Aisha and Jasmine. But it was also a way to afford the kind of space they wanted to live in. The housing market seems to be worse than ever. I wanted to know why and what other alternatives might be out there. So I called up my colleague. Hi, I'm Rachel Cohen-Booth. I am a senior policy correspondent at Vox.com. Rachel covers housing, and she says that there are a lot of things at play when it comes to cost. It's really expensive.

13:28It's getting even more expensive with tariffs, frankly. But sort of a quick, dirty overview. Housing prices soared during the pandemic when interest rates were at historic lows. Price growth has slowed a lot since then, but the prices aren't actually falling. And that's in large part because mortgage rates have more than doubled. They've been at 6 % to 7 % for a while now. And so that basically adds up to this kind of freeze in the market where home sales are way down and the people who did buy a house a couple years ago are basically locked in. We knew we got a killer deal and that we were super lucky.

14:08We definitely could not afford to buy our house now. I will not give up this house or the rate at which I got the money. And people who haven't bought yet, like me, feel like they may never be able to. So all of that pressure is really pushing people to think differently about housing.

14:31Jonquilyn Hill:OK, Rachel, we are both renters and probably will be for the foreseeable future. I actually just moved into a new place. And one of the big reasons I chose it is that the rent is considerably cheaper than where I was. How are other people in our shoes picking where to live? So I think the primary thing people are looking for is affordability. They're looking for just a house that fits their budget, and that is definitely steering people in various directions. But some people are also, you know, don't want to live alone. They want to find community. They want to find housing in bustling areas with lots of amenities and people around them.

15:08And so two models that I've covered that I think are really interesting. One is adult dorm rooms, which is sort of an older idea that's now coming back in this new form. And another one I'd refer to as intergenerational home sharing.

15:23Jonquilyn Hill:I want to dig more into both of these. Let's talk about adult dorms first. What is that? It sounds funny, but it's a serious idea. And potentially this kind of two birds, one stone situation. Cities are short millions of homes. There's this huge housing shortage. Aw, man. I'm never going to be able to afford the kind of place I want. And at the same time, office buildings are sitting empty after the pandemic, after the shift to remote work. At least I don't have to go to the office anymore. I covered this research from Pew and this architecture firm Gensler that tries to tackle both problems at once by turning all these vacant office buildings into adult-style dorm rooms.

16:04Living in the office? I don't know. The model is like, instead of these full private units where everyone has their own bathroom, each floor would share bathrooms, like on an office building. And you'd have, you know, a bed, a desk, a mini fridge, but then shared bathrooms and shared kitchens and shared living spaces with the TV. And so that makes it a lot cheaper because it could cut construction costs by up to a third. Woo! More money for avocado toast. Let's go. And so we're seeing this already now in cities like the researchers looked at places like Denver and Seattle and Minneapolis as kind of prime candidates.

16:41And these are places with high rents and high vacancy rates and relatively flexible zoning laws.

16:48Jonquilyn Hill:I can hear the potential in this. You know, I think of like me when I just graduated from college. Or you're like a retiring, you know, grandmother and you want to downsize and be near your grandkids in the cities or something. Yeah. And like it does make sense. But I think there are also some elements that probably seem bleak to some people. I mean, this isn't like you're going outside to the bathroom. A lot of people don't mind sharing if it could mean hundreds of dollars, cheapers of rent a month. So that's sort of the thinking. Everyone will kind of make their own calculations as long as it's not unsafe.

17:24OK, got it.

17:25Jonquilyn Hill:I want to know about the other option you mentioned. And what's intergenerational sharing? Right now, these stats kind of blew my mind. About 60 % of U.S. homes have at least one spare bedroom. And among empty nesters, there are roughly 21 million houses with two empty bedrooms or more. So it's basically this idea of matching older homeowners who have extra space with younger renters who need affordable housing. And it's kind of this way to unlock these millions of empty bedrooms that are just sitting unused right now across the country. So, you know, these empty bedrooms are starting to look a lot more attractive, both to younger people, but also to older people who could use a little bit of help around their big houses.

18:09Jonquilyn Hill:How does it work? Do you just like head to the closest pickleball court and find the nicest person and say, hey, can I live with you? There's like a lot of different models that are coming up. Some are sort of state coordinated models. Some are private companies. One company I covered is called Nestorly. Nestorly, an award-winning service, tackles this issue by connecting high-quality renters to older adults with space in their home. They use like an Airbnb situation where a homeowner can make a profile, a younger renter can make a profile. You guys have this like secure video chat over the app to meet each other.

18:43And then you have like a lease agreement type thing through their app. City by city, Nestorly provides the tools and services needed to unlock this win-win housing solution. There is a lot of concern. You know, senior scams are a big thing. A lot of people don't necessarily want strangers coming into their home. So there needs to be a lot of care in how these lease agreements are set up and like making sure everyone feels comfortable and making sure you feel comfortable being able to end the lease. But it's not a traditional sort of arrangement that we that we're so used to right now.

19:16Jonquilyn Hill:It sounds like there are, you know, some interesting new options out there. But I do notice that all of these options involve renting. Yeah, that's right. Co-living spaces, home sharing, they are different kinds of renting. And honestly, I think more people are going to be, including me, renting for the indefinite future. It's just becoming the new normal. And I think it's something that we're going to have to get used to. Coming up, what if renting isn't the problem? Why, maybe we shouldn't have gotten used to home buying in the first place.

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21:37Jonquilyn Hill:We're back. This is Explain It To Me. I'm J.Q. there's one more person I wanted to talk to today, and that's Jerusalem Dimsis. She's a Vox alum, and now she's the editor-in-chief at The Argument magazine. And when it comes to how we live, she has a hot take. Very hot, very hot. Home ownership, overrated. That's my take. Ooh. Take it or leave it. Take it or leave it, JQ. Okay, that's spicy, especially in America. Explain why you've come to this. What makes you say that? I mean, I'm a renter. And I love being a renter. I love the freedom of renting. I love being able to move when I want to move.

22:16I love not feeling that when something breaks, that it's on the back of my head constantly, that it's my responsibility to make sure the roof is okay and make sure the fridge isn't going to break. There's so much stress associated with owning things. And a house is a massive asset. Even if you're an entry-level home buyer where you have a$200 ,000,$300 ,000,$400 ,000 house, that's a lot of money. and if it goes wrong, like that's your biggest asset. And for most of your life, you're just paying a lot of money for this asset that at any moment could cause you like 10X the amount of grief. And so to me, I think it's not that homeownership is never a good idea for anyone.

22:51That's obviously not true. There are a lot of people who benefit from it and who enjoy getting to have the freedom of, you know, renovating their home and making it exactly how they want it. But I think that we overhype the financial benefits like way too much.