The data center war

0:00Astead Herndon:Okay, so today we're driving to southern New Jersey. I'm heading to a data center. Convertible? Are we sure? It's not enough for that? My man. That's a little aggressive, King. Okay, so a couple weeks ago I read a story in NJ.com and it was all about how there's a data center going up in Cumberland County, the poorest county in New Jersey, that's receiving some community pushback. And this immediately got my attention because data centers are going up all across the country, and it feels like an issue more people should be talking about. According to one stat I saw, there's more than 4 ,000 data centers already across America, and more than 2 ,000 that have been announced or are already under construction.

0:46Astead Herndon:That's kind of crazy. I feel like we should be hearing politicians talk more about this, but we haven't really heard a consensus. One member of Congress told me that he wants to see a moratorium on data centers. But a senator told me recently that he thinks they're a necessary evil as things like AI become a bigger part of our economy and our society. So that led me to think, let's do some journalism ourselves and figure out what people actually think. Are data centers really a necessary evil? Let's find out.

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2:22Astead Herndon:So I just got to Vineland, New Jersey, and I'm here to look at the Data One data center. This just started construction early last year, and we're already starting to see some community pushback on it. So much so that Data One has had to actually delay its plans for expansion. And this has also been showing up in the political arena, too. Southern New Jersey is home to New Jersey's second congressional district. And there are some Democrats who have been making this the focus of their campaigns, hoping to really seize on the community backlash on the issue. One of those Democrats is named Bailey Winder, who we're going to talk to in a second.

2:56Astead Herndon:Now, Bailey's a young person who's really tried to throw town halls on this issue. He spoke to city council, and he's really been saying that the community was not included in the process by which this data center went into construction. And there's a lot of concerns on the energy front, on the environmental front, and simply just a lot of noise. So I want to try to untangle this, and let's figure out what's actually going on here. Thank you for being our tour guide, Theo. I appreciate the chance to be with you. Can you just give us a sense of, like, what we're outside right now? This is the new data center in Vineland, New Jersey.

3:31We're here in Cumberland County. And just look at the size of this thing. It is gigantic.

3:35Astead Herndon:Give me a sense of the scope of this thing. Like, how large are we talking about? How far does this extend? It is huge. And we're talking 300 to 350 megawatts, 2.6 million square feet. Wow. But one thing I say to people is until you're in front of this, you see it in person, it's hard to put it in perspective. This is not just another project. It is something that's one of the largest data centers in the whole Northeast. Did people know this was happening? Was there community input? Like, before we get to the sense of backlash now, take me what would have happened then. Sure. So one of the big frustrations, one of the big reasons why there have been so many concerns in the community is because of what you're pointing to, which is I think the process was expedited and it was shoved through.

4:18And a lot of - Now, is that a fact? Do we know that or is that something that people feel? That's based on what I'm hearing from people in the community. Okay. And, you know, there are a lot of concerns about energy and the environment and all. Part of it is plain and simple that this is a hyperscale sized data center. And a lot of folks here in Vineland across South Jersey felt like they were not notified until it was too late, until this had already taken off. And if you look at what's happened across city council meetings, which is the first way that I really got involved with this issue back in last fall.

4:47We are not going anywhere. Not next week, not next month, not after a postponed vote. Because this issue is doing something powerful. It is bringing the community together, left, right, and center. People disagree about almost everything in politics right now, but this is about community interests versus big corporations and versus political deals that enable them to get the red carpet rolled out. Most city council meetings, people don't show up, right? Local politics started to get people to turn out. These city council meetings were packed. I mean, standing room only because people were saying, wait a minute, what is going on here?

5:28Where was our consultation? And why haven't we had more town halls, more chances to have a back and forth? The writing is on the wall for what lies ahead for our city. And you sit here staring blankly or doodling on your papers. There are still steps you can take to speak up and protect us from potential harm. We have reached out to counsel on multiple occasions, both here and personally. I'm here to offer that conversation again. We're ready to talk to you. You need to meet us here.

5:54Astead Herndon:We're mostly here for two reasons specifically. Like, one, we want to think about the issue of data centers. Like, I'm kind of wondering, is this about process or people thinking that things are changing too quickly around them? It's about energy costs. This is about, you know, the noise or inconvenience. That's kind of one question in my head. But another one is just kind of thinking about where Democrats are going to go on this. I've heard politicians say everything like there needs to be a moratorium on data centers, to saying things like there are kind of a necessary evil in our age of AI.

6:24Astead Herndon:Let's start with the second one. From where you see it, one could say that this puts something like Cumberland County in the present, that it helps create jobs for our changing work economy. What's your response to that? My response is that I'm pro-development, but I'm pro-responsible development. And I think the way this project has developed has not put the community first and has not had enough community input. So we know AI is here to stay. We know this sector is going to be part of what drives the American economy for decades to come. But the consequences of something like this once it's up and running are huge.

6:58Astead Herndon:But what I'm hearing from you doesn't sound like a complete opposition to a data center in this community or even, you know, development like this overall. It sounds like the concern is more in how this happened, at least right now. Is that fair? My belief is that we need to have a short-term moratorium nationwide on data center development because it's moving too fast and because the impact is extreme in some cases. So I don't think that should be years and years, but I think the government needs to intervene right now and make sure that there are guardrails in place. I had read that Cumberland County was the poorest county in New Jersey.

7:34Astead Herndon:I want to circle back to that with the question of jobs. Data One would say they're helping provide a service for a community that needs it. I guess what I was hearing you say is the process has been the problem. So data centers are a pretty extractive type of project because the energy consumption, the way they're developed, and then they talk about a few hundred jobs. Well, first of all, there's no guarantee that those jobs will come into fruition. That's sort of based on a corporate pitch on why this project is good. And I think you need independent verification of that and you need close monitoring of that.

8:05Another thing I'll say is that at one of the city council meetings I spoke at, a union group came and said, if you're going to have jobs for this project, at least have them be union jobs. And that does not happen on the scale that I think is sufficient either. But there's a reason, I believe, why a lot of these data centers are coming into communities where they think they can come in aggressively without a lot of pushback, partially because of what you just said.

8:26Astead Herndon:I'm like, yeah, is it a happenstance that this is going up in the community of most need? Maybe it doesn't have the same type of political agency. I mean, I've seen some of the protests that have happened here and places across the country. What do you think is most driving this backlash to data centers? And do you think kind of federal politicians are hearing it? So I think people are just concerned about their day-to-day life. This is a kitchen table issue where here in New Jersey, life is so expensive already with taxes, with the cost of housing and education, you name it. So energy bills are already unaffordable for a lot of folks.

9:00And the concerns around this are that it's not credible to have something of this size without creating more impact there. That's what I was going to ask. Do we know causally that this raises New Jersey's energy prices? Well, what we do know is that nationally, data centers are about 5 % now of electricity consumption. What we do know is that this project's development has coincided with a large spike in energy bills. And it's not credible to me that there's zero correlation there. I think part of the problem that you're speaking to is the lack of information, though. I think it's important to recognize that this is something that is so novel that we don't know a lot of what's going to happen.

9:35And that's what's driving some of that fear.

9:37Astead Herndon:Yeah. Yeah. I hear what you're saying. It's not necessarily that we have all this clear evidence that this data center leads to higher energy prices or inherently displaces all these folks. But we do know that this is happening so quickly and this is so new that it's driving a lot of anxiety among these people. Right. I heard that Data One delayed a hearing with the city council after some of this public pushback. It leads to me to kind of one of my final questions, like, do you think that they're hearing some of this? And part of the reason we've seen delays, part of the reason we haven't seen some of the proposed expansion is because the community is pushing back?

10:13Absolutely. So we organized a rally about a month and a half ago. And it was not just me. It was multiple organizations coming together, including environmental groups. That rally was really well attended. It was people who were Democrat, Republican, independent coming together. Because one thing about this issue is it's bipartisan in the community concern. We held that rally. We had a bunch of different speakers. And several days later, the Vineland city government decided to postpone a vote by two months on whether or not to expand this site.

10:40Astead Herndon:I wonder if how much of your position is reflected in constituency. Do you think residents are on your side in terms of maybe just wanting a pause, but kind of recognizing where AI plays its role in the future? Or do you think it's a more full-scale opposition where they want this data center gone and they don't want one of these here again? I think the opposition is very strong. That's why I get messages all the time on social media from people who are really worried. This data center is underway and we're not going to get it fully canceled. But there are measures that can be taken in the next couple of months when it comes to the possibility of expansion.

11:11tax breaks, water usage. And that's really where my focus is on being a pragmatist about this and understanding that we can have legislation that can include those protections. But, you know, there's no way this project should have happened in this way. It's actually an insult to the community. And what it's done is create, I think, a story we've seen a million times before in America, but that's now on a scale that's really scary, which is I think of in terms of as a big district, I'm driving around a lot. This data center project was in the EZPass lane and community concerns have been stuck in the traffic in the right-hand lane.

11:46And that's a disconnect that I think is unacceptable.

11:48Astead Herndon:We have a kind of a stereotype of how hard it is to build in America and how many, how much red tape is put up before things go up. And it's kind of like we're describing a process here that's the opposite. Then when it's come to these sort of things, they've gone up fast enough where folks don't even feel like they've had a moment for that kind of community concern. I think it's a great point because when it comes to affordable housing, part of how we unlock that is critical thinking around bureaucracy and red tape. There's a lot that can be cut down there. The question is, how did a project of this size get up and running so fast?

12:19Astead Herndon:Okay, so now can you actually drive me around this data center so we can get a sense of just the scope of this thing? Absolutely. Let's do it. All right. So about how big is Vineland? Vineland, it's one of the larger cities in the district, but it's also, as you can see around here, there's just a lot of land. Yeah, yeah. I gotta say, like, you know, it's not that I expected a data center to be aesthetically pleasing, but they have made this maybe the most un-aesthetically pleasing structure humanly possible. I mean, the immediate comes to mind is like prison-like, but it's just the kind of drab, brutalist block.

12:57It is. It's very imposing. It's very cold. I think you can understand why folks around here are concerned about their property prices.

13:05Astead Herndon:Yeah. I've talked with people who said I'm petrified about not being able to sell my home. Yeah. And. Yeah, there it is. Here we are. 20 million gallons of water per year. Wow. And when you think about the risks these days of extreme weather in the summertime, right, you're going to have situations where the farmers are competing for water with this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, thank you for driving me around. I really appreciate it. Absolutely. Thank you so much. Yeah, we're going to be at the town hall tonight.

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15:30Astead Herndon:So we're at the Hocus Community Center in Bridgeton, New Jersey. That's the next step in our story. And we're here because there will be a resident town hall for all the folks around here who have been affected by the Data One Data Center. Now, we know this caused some community backlash. And we know that Bailey Winder, the congressional candidate, has been trying to channel that in his run for Congress. So we've decided to join along with him in his latest town hall to see what residents are actually thinking about it. Let's take a look. We're going to go ahead and get the ball rolling here. My name is Bailey Winder, running for Congress in this year's election, hoping to bring some change to South Jersey, bring some new leadership to South Jersey.

16:08We are here tonight to talk about a number of things, but first and foremost to talk about an issue that I know matters a lot across this community, across the country. That is data centers and the way that they are being developed, the way that they are getting approvals or not getting approvals and who is stepping up. And I think it's really important that we understand that this is something that is happening all over the place. And it's also something that's bipartisan. It really doesn't feel left versus right to me. It feels more like, are you standing with the community or not? Are you putting the community first or not?

16:45I think the message in this case is you have government looking out for the wrong people and having the wrong set of priorities. So I'll stop there. I thank you so much, and I'll look forward to hearing your thoughts. Don. Just as a federal legislator, what would you offer as far as legislation goes to help protect the state and the industry? There's a host of answers for that. I'll start with the data center point specifically, which is that I believe we need a pause in order to make sure that the guardrails are in place. It's not saying we don't want development. We do want development. We want jobs.

17:22We want South Jersey's economy to become stronger, but it cannot happen at the expense of the community. I would imagine with the environment and council, they probably, like you, are like, I don't know the specifics of how much pollution is in the air and how you measure all that. So I would imagine that you would also rely on people that are experts in that field to tell you what would be acceptable or what would not be acceptable or what the threshold should be or what the limit should be. So that would be something that would happen. through, I guess, the DEP? Well, I think the DEP plays a role in it.

17:58But part of what you're pointing to, which is a problem across our country right now, is that experts and science is not being invested in. And we have to understand that this technology has been around for a while, but it's also novel in some ways. When the DataOne CEO came to do his presentation, he said, this is technology we've never seen before. Well, that could be a good thing, but that's also a scary thing to hear. Experiment. We're going to experiment down here. And we're the guinea pigs. And we're the guinea pigs. Exactly. How many employees is this place supposed to bring? Yeah, it's a good question.

18:34They say a couple of hundred in the long term. A couple of hundred for two and a half million square feet? Yeah. The amount of electricity, you said it's like... About twice that of Vineland. Okay. How can they support that? How can that possibly be supported with today's grid? One thing that happens in this country is there's no planning for the future. I mean, government, we're certainly, it doesn't seem to be, that we're planning out. Our infrastructure is never updated. You've got to invest in here and not just looking at somebody's building. Because who benefits with that building? Who? It's not the people of this town.

19:20Right. Or the county or the state. What's going to happen? I can't sell my house. I told you. Right. My house has been for sale. I'll see you start February. And because I need to be where my children are. My husband passed. My mom passed. And it's time to go where they are. People come in. I have a woman who came back twice, had cash, and realized it was near the data center. Her children said, Mom, she says, I just can't do this. Yeah, I'm so sorry. So this is what people are going to do? Yes. That's right. This is not about abstract politics. It's about people's everyday lives and livelihoods and quality of life.

19:56I thank you all so, so much. Really appreciate you being here and taking the time. I hope we can talk more and grateful for the conversation. We're just going to have Aspen and the Box seniors folks come up here and ask a few questions. Excellent. That's a light.

20:11Astead Herndon:Can you ask for minutes? So my name is Aspen Herndon. I'm a politics journalist. I host the podcast at Box. It's all about elections. It's called America Actually. I would love to ask you all just a couple like show of hands questions to get a sense of how you're feeling about this. And then maybe we'll hear some individual stories. How many of you right now feel like you got information about the data center before the construction started? No, nobody. Okay. Can someone raise their hand and just tell me what their biggest concern was once they started hearing about it? Well, when I saw it, I thought it was the ugliest thing I've ever seen.