You need a prenup

0:02My mother was surprised that we were getting a prenup. She didn't, in her mind, it wasn't something that, you know, people like us got, like people of our income range would be getting. She's like, it's for the billionaires. It's the Daddy Warbucks. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So she was like, what are you doing?

0:27Noel King:I don't understand. Parents famously just don't understand. But here at Today Explained, we have also been wondering what's going on with prenups. Data shows that many younger couples, so think Gen Z and millennials, are signing these agreements before they get married. Even couples that make more or less the same amount of money come from similar financial backgrounds and don't have many assets to protect. So is romance dead or is it just evolving? Coming up, we ask, you tell.

0:59Noel King:Support for Today Explained comes from BetterHelp. This month, it's International Women's Day. To all the mothers, grandmothers, sisters, and friends out there, you deserve to take care of yourself as well as take care of the people around you, says BetterHelp. With so many unseen responsibilities, emotional well-being can sometimes end up at the bottom of the list. If you want help being matched with a quality therapist, you can try BetterHelp. Your emotional well-being matters. Find support and feel lighter in therapy. Sign up and get 10 % off at betterhelp.com. slash explained. That's betterhelp.com slash explained.

1:31As AI reshapes professional services, law firms and in-house teams are rethinking how complex work gets done. Harvey AI is an AI platform built specifically for legal practice, helping teams analyze documents, draft with precision, and collaborate securely across matters. Today, more than half of the Amlaw 100 use Harvey. Learn more at harvey.ai.

2:00This is Today It's Play. I object! I've been engaged before and it fell apart. And after that, I decided there's no way I would ever get married without some sort of financial agreement. We do have a prenup. The point was just to sort of make sure that should we ever get separated or divorced, that what each of us came into the relationship with and what each of us may inherit in the future stays with the individual rather than becoming joint assets that get split. After we were sort of engaged for a year, he sort of said, Nick, I need you to sign a prenup. And I was like, oh, OK. And I had come from a pretty wealthy family and he had worked really hard for his money.

2:49and I sort of thought, is it for me or for you? And so we went through it. I never really thought about getting a prenup, but she really wanted one. She is worried that someday I would, you know, take her parents home or something like that. My husband had been married previously and he went through a divorce, obviously. And I wanted to give him some assurances that, you know, if our marriage ever did dissolve, that he wouldn't be left in a lurch because I was angry and bitter at him.

3:30Noel King:Angry and bitter made us laugh. We called this caller back. I'm Kara. I am 36 years old and I work in supply chain logistics. I'm Gregory. I'm 35 years old, and I work in software engineering slash game development. How long ago did you guys get married? So we got married back in December of 2024 on a Friday the 13th. So did you know it was going to be the Friday the 13th? Or was it like, oh, this just happens to be the Friday when everyone can come? No, we leaned into it. We wanted it. We wanted it to be Friday the 13th. For either of you, be honest, was there any doubt about getting married?

4:10I didn't have any doubts, but I know that divorce is like a really common thing. And my husband had been married previously. And obviously, you know, he ended up getting a divorce. So, you know, I went in with both eyes open that, you know, no matter how happy things are, things can end. You know, there was like some, you know, what ifs, but she's a good partner and I didn't foresee anything happening. I get at least anytime soon. So, yeah, I just kind of went with it.

4:38Noel King:You guys ultimately ended up signing a prenuptial agreement, a prenup. Whose idea was it? It was mine. After my husband's divorce, you know, there's like a lot of financial stressors. And it was a big legal headache for him that I knew had left him maybe a little gun shy. And so I wanted to let him know that I'm totally willing and able to sign a prenup. It was already kind of in my mind, but the fact that she brought it up, that definitely helped. What were the financial stressors after your first divorce? Like, what happened? It was kind of a... I just said first divorce. I'm sorry. Oh, no. I didn't even catch that.

5:17Noel King:You guys, Friday the 13th, you started it. Okay, maybe retake. What were the financial stressors after your divorce? What happened? So, a few different things. We bought a house together. So, the house was kind of the biggest financial expense. unfortunately and fortunately home prices had grown since i purchased the house uh so had to end up getting a loan for uh half the equity of the house to pay her uh so i ended up taking like a 140 000 loan out um there's was separate alimony that i had to pay that was like an additional 25-ish thousand. And then there's this other separate debt that was also included.

6:06It was like another 20. So there's a huge, very large financial hit, I would say. There's a lot of, you know, okay, I don't want to go through this again kind of thing. Yeah. So definitely the prenup was important to me.

6:19Noel King:I'm going to ask you guys a personal question, okay? Are you guys rich? Does either one of you come from a ton of money? Like the classic prenup situation is somebody in this relationship is coming into it with a ton of money and somebody else is coming into it with much less. Is there any imbalance here? I wouldn't say that there's a huge imbalance. And when we were growing up, neither of us came from a financially well-to-do background. And we both went to school. We developed our careers. And I would say we're doing pretty good now. Both of our careers have given us stock options. Huh. Nothing crazy.

6:57Again, a modest amount of money. We both have 401ks that we've been saving into. I've been saving into my 401k since I was working part-time jobs at grocery stores. So we both have some assets. Gregory is definitely the higher income earner in our relationship, but I would say I'm not too far off.

7:17Noel King:So when we get down to brass tacks, a prenup, as I understand it, says in the event of a divorce, I'm going to get this. You're going to get this. So what's in it? What are you guys actually agreeing to do or divvy up? A lot of it's like the things we came into the relationship with are considered ours. Right. So, like, you know, I got the house. You know, she has her own accounts, our own for her own case. So, you know, it's all separate. But we also decided, you know, because we're trying to start a business together. So like that's 50-50. When you let other people know, if indeed you did, that you had a prenup, did you feel any stigma attached to it?

8:00When I was talking about this with one of my really good friends, I guess I kind of forgotten to mention to her that I got a prenup. I mean, it's not something that really comes up in conversation. So when I was telling her, and I was like talking about it recently, she was like really shocked. She's like, you got a prenup? And this friend is unmarried. She was like, really like surprised. She's like, I don't understand. Like, I know you guys, you don't have buckets of cash lying around your house. Like, why did you get a prenup? But that's my unmarried friend. My married friends, and we're all about the same age, we're all in like our mid-30s, early to mid-30s, all my married friends do actually have prenups.

8:44They were the ones that I got the idea from.

8:47Noel King:One argument that I've seen about prenups is that it takes, let me put this delicately, because you guys have not been married for very long. Like, it takes some of the romance out of the idea that you're going to be together forever because you're, what's the word? You're like hedging your bets, kind of. Is there any part of the argument that this is just like not romantic that resonates with you at all? I would say yes, but there's also a certain romantic part about it, being able to talk to your partner and decide on, you know, how things will be split up in the future. Talking to them about that is a pretty big deal, I think.

9:27So I'm not going to recommend anybody set up a date by going over a prenup, like, let's pop a bottle of champagne and, you know, break out the prenup. I don't think it's romantic in that sense at all, but it is romantic in its own way. You know, I saw what the stressors of the divorce had on Gregory, and I know that he didn't go into his first marriage thinking that it was going to end in divorce. I don't think anybody goes into a marriage expecting it to end in divorce. but I wanted to let him know that I'm in it you know I'm not here for the money I'm I want to be with you because I love you because I want to make a life with you and grow old with you and plan a future with you so I'll lay it all out here here's all the finances and let's sign this paperwork together

10:22Noel King:that's cara and gregory in florida thanks to them and thanks to all of you who called coming up what is behind the rise in prenups

10:34support for this show comes from im8 if you're having a hard time finishing your day strong then you might want to check out im8's daily ultimate essentials it's a daily all-in-one wellness drink that gives my body the support it needs without juggling a bunch of different supplements. I am eight's daily ultimate essentials is a go-to for getting the benefits of 16 different supplements in one tasty drink co-founded by David Beckham and crafted with insight from experts at Mayo Clinic, Cedar Sinai, and a former NASA chief scientist. It can simplify your wellness routine and make it easier to support your health.

11:07This drink is loaded with 92 nutrient rich ingredients, such as vitamins, minerals, adaptogens, CoQ10, MSM, and pre, pro, and postbiotics. It's designed to help you feel good from the inside out. Plus, it's vegan, gluten-free, and non-GMO, so you can feel confident about what you're putting in your body, making it a solid choice if you're focused on your health. Feel your best self every day with IM8. Go to im8.com slash explained and use code explained for a free welcome kit, five free travel sachets, plus 10 % off your order. That's I-M-8-H-E-A-L-T-H dot com slash explained. Code explained. For a free welcome kit, five free travel sachets, plus 10 % off your order.

11:56I-M-8-Health dot com slash explained. Code explained. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease.

12:11Support for the show comes from Harvey AI. And if you're like, whoo, well, law is a craft. And just like any craft, it's forged through repetition, sharpened by judgment, and perfected in the details most people never see. Practice Made Perfect is Harvey's belief in relentless refinement, in turning complexity into clarity, pressure into precision, and experience into advantage. They say legal work isn't just about knowing the law, it's about applying it carefully, consistently, and under real stakes. No more fake stakes beyond meat. Harvey AI is an AI platform they say is built specifically for legal practice.

12:53It can help teams analyze large volumes of documents, draft with precision, and collaborate securely across complex matters. According to their data, more than half of the AMLA 100 use Harvey. You can go to Harvey.ai to learn more.

13:12Noel King:Support for Today Explained comes from Bombas. Perhaps you want to get in shape this year. Bombas wants to tell you about the all-new Bombas sports socks engineered with sport-specific comfort for running, golf, hiking, skiing, snowboarding, and all sport. Meanwhile, for the loungers among us, Bombas has non-sport footwear available. But Bombas doesn't just offer sport and non-sport socks. They also offer super soft base layers that they claim will have you rethinking your whole wardrobe. Underwear, t-shirts, flexible, breathable, buttery, smooth, premium, everyday go-tos they say you won't want to leave the house without.

13:51Noel King:Here's Nisha Chital. I've been wearing Bombas for several years now. I have several pairs. My whole family loves to wear Bombas. I have several pairs of Bombas ankle socks, and I have some no-show socks as well that are great for things like loafers and ballet flats. For every item you purchase, Bombas says an essential clothing item is donated to someone facing housing insecurity. One purchased, one donated, over 150 million donations and counting, I'm told. You can go to Bombas.com slash explain and use code explain for 20 % off your first purchase. That's B-O-M-B-A-S dot com slash explain, code explained at checkout.

14:37Queenups. Is what brings us together today. Explained.

14:47My name is Jennifer Wilson. I'm a staff writer at The New Yorker.

14:51Noel King:What got you thinking and writing about prenups? I just noticed them kind of, you know, all over. You know, you've seen prenups on TV shows like Sex and the City. Well, this all looks pretty normal. Charlotte wasted no time having a lawyer look over the papers. Normal? We haven't even gotten married yet and already we're talking about divorce. Sweetie, a lot of people do prenups these days. Marriage is supposed to be about love and happiness. And the merging and protection of assets. or, you know, reality shows like Real Housewives. So, speaking of the wedding. What happened? I wanted to get your opinion and see if you think we should explore getting a prenup.

15:34The f***? And in those contexts, it makes sense because we're talking about people with a lot of money. The stereotype is that you've got a rich guy and he wants to figure out a way to, you know, screw his gold-digging younger partner out of her share of the assets. But I started seeing prenups appear on shows like Love is Blind. I think I would be most comfortable with just having separate accounts. Even a prenup. There was a contestant who worked in HR, and she wanted her fiancé to sign a prenup. And neither of them really had much money. Worst case scenario, it was just people leave with what they came with, and like figuring out like how to split assets and stuff like that before it becomes a thing, you know.

16:25And I expected, you know, the conversation on social media to be sort of, you know, making fun of this a little bit. Like, come on, girl. Like, we don't have any money. We've blown it all on avocado toast. But, you know, everyone's saying, absolutely. You know, this is just financial hygiene. This is just being responsible. Here's why Devin from Love is Blind should definitely take his fiancee, Virginia, up on her offer for a prenup. What's crazy to me is, God forbid, somebody would want to protect themselves in case things go wrong. But you literally met this person three weeks ago. You're getting married to them on a show.

17:04Why would a prenup not make sense? You know, and then all over TikTok, there were these personal finance influencers, often female. There's one who goes by the handle YourRichBFF. Her name's Vivian Tu. And she had a, you know, a viral video that said, What's in my prenup and in my purse? You know, it was like a sort of a very cutesy conversation about prenups. And she got a lot of, you know, support from, you know, people online saying, yes, every woman should push for a prenup. And that's the whole point of a prenup, making joint financial decisions that make sense for your relationship, because it's the most loving thing you can do.

17:42And also just the numbers of people getting prenups have just risen dramatically. So there was a 2023 Harris poll that showed that 40 percent of millennials and Gen Zers claimed that they had signed a prenup. Now, that number struck a lot of the lawyers I spoke to as way too high, although they all told me that they have seen a big uptick in younger couples asking for prenups. So I just wanted to dig into this phenomenon.

18:11Noel King:You have laid out what my understanding of a prenup always was, which is there's a rich guy. He's coming to the marriage with all the money. The woman has no or less money. And so the idea is basically like, I'm going to protect myself from this woman just in case. Very gendered scenario that I just laid out, but I also think rooted in some truth. You said it was a woman on Love is Blind who was like, I want a prenup. And she didn't have money. So what are the differences that we're seeing here? So you're right that there is a really big gendered shift. One of the things I researched for this piece are these apps that have just kind of, you know, proliferated across the market.

18:50Many of them, their founders are women. So one is Hello Prenup. Hello Prenup is the first digital platform to allow couples to create a prenuptial agreement in hours instead of months and for a fraction of the cost without ever leaving their couch. One is called First, and that was actually launched by Sheryl Sandberg's former chief of staff at Facebook, a woman named Libby Loeffler. And, you know, she absolutely has used very much like a lean in kind of language around prenups, you know, the same way that Sheryl Sandberg was telling women, you've got to negotiate your salary. Now, you know, her protege is saying, well, you know, you should renegotiate your marriage contract.

19:34I worry that are people like fully reading what the agreement says? Are they negotiating? Always negotiate. You know, you would never you would never, you know, take on a new job without knowing, you know, your compensation package. This is a quote. You know, why would you why why would you enter a marriage without the same know-how? I think that one thing that's really important here to understand is we're talking about a particular generation, millennials and Gen Z, who are used to thinking about divorce and separation. You know, 25 percent of millennials are the children of divorce or separation.

20:15So they're coming to their new relationships with, you know, a certain amount of trauma. And so, you know, there was a little bit of that, but not nearly as much as you would think. I think that this generation is just a bit more realistic that, you know, that happily ever after or, you know, till death do we part are not realistic ways to think about marriage.

20:38Noel King:I wonder about something. When you were learning about the details of people's prenups, what surprised you? Like what really raised your eyebrows or made you go, oh, damn, they really thought of something there? Companies like Hello Prenup, they are offering all sorts of new clauses. So something called like a social media image clause. And what that does is you can in your prenup say for any disparaging content about your ex that you post on social media, you have to pay a financial penalty. And you can set that financial penalty. And it's like per post. You can sort of say, you know,$10 ,000,$20 ,000 per post.

21:21And I think that's because, you know, we've seen people's careers be affected by information about what happened in their relationship becoming public. So it's not totally irrational. Millennials are also getting married later. So things like IVF have come up. So Hello Prenup also has an embryo clause. where you can decide how you want to, for instance, divide embryos in the event of a divorce and even like who's going to pay for, you know, storage fees. Even something like classic, classic clauses like the infidelity clause. You know, you have to be very particular about how you define infidelity these days.

22:04I mean, we're living in an era of, you know, ethical non-monogamy. More people are thinking differently about what infidelity is. But also, you know, I interviewed for the piece a divorce lawyer who said that, you know, relationships with an AI chatbot, those could conceivably violate an infidelity clause. And she actually said that she's already telling her clients to be careful, you know, about how much, for instance, you even divulge to some of these chatbots. Because she said you can actually subpoena those conversations and they can come up, you know, in a divorce but also in custody. So, I mean, these these prenups are definitely modernizing.