3 Basic Speed Training Tips To Compete Like An Elite | Marcus Smith

0:07If I followed you around for a week, what would be the most surprising thing to me or somebody about how an elite rugby player at the top of their game trains? The biggest thing that you'd probably notice is how much I take my recovery in my own time. Obviously, at the club, we get pampered a lot. But at home, I've got a sauna, I've got an ice bath, I've got a cryo. No, I haven't got a cryo, I've got a hyperbaric. I see a physio two or three times a week. And for me, I was told when I was a bit younger that the best ability is availability. So that's always stuck in my mind. It's around, especially when you're an elite sport, you almost don't really want to give anyone else a chance through injury.

0:49Obviously, there's some injuries that come out of nowhere. but that would be the biggest thing, how determined and focused I am, I guess, at home and away from the club. So you keep yourself kind of in shape and fighting fit in order to maintain your role? Yeah, I would say so. Like, I used to be real close with Carl Sinclair and he told me that there's an NFL player who I think was like, unless you rip me off the field, there's no way I'm going to give my jersey to someone else. and obviously I probably don't take it to that extreme, but it does go through my mind sometimes because the minute you give someone else a chance, like I was given a chance when I was 18, who knows, you never know when it's your last time in the show.

1:36So it's something that's always on my mind. I'm not perfect, obviously. I still enjoy doing stuff with my friends and going out a little bit, but I've tried to really dial that down, especially as I'm coming towards the middle of my career. And I want to play for as long as possible. So I think that's the biggest thing that can give you that edge and give you that advantage at home. That's such a relatable way of thinking that you can be replaced. And it's the reality, isn't it, in pretty much every job. Like somebody else can do your job. I'm surprised to hear that you, like someone of your talent in the position that you're in, thinks about that on a daily basis.

2:14I think that's really refreshing. Yeah, I think for me, it's obviously the way I got my break. There was a bad injury with one of my teammates, one of my good friends, and I was given a shot. My mum used to push me quite hard growing up, and she said, whenever you get a chance, make sure you run with it and leave no stone unturned so that whenever that opportunity comes in whatever field, you're ready to go. So I guess I've kind of flipped that in my mind, especially as I'm, I guess, at Harlequins, the incumbent, and there's always youngsters coming out of school who have dreams and aspirations like I did when I was 16, 17, and we're all friends, but they're probably coming for me as well.

2:58I'm quite real with that. So I think that's the way that the world is. I think competition is massively important in every walk of life, and lucky, I guess, I had two younger brothers that we compete over everything. So it's something that I do think about, probably not every day, but once every couple of months I do. Tell me a bit more about this recovery. So you have sauna and ice at home. Which do you favor? How do you use them? How regular are they in your routine? So I'd say sauna and ice is probably my prized possession in my house. Firstly, for my mindset, it's nice to get away from the world a little bit and spend some time on my own.

3:38I think I sometimes pray in there, listen to music once in a while, but I try and stay off my phone. And I normally do the sauna and ice. I try and do the ice most mornings before training. So training days would be Monday, Tuesday, Thursday for a game on Saturday. So most mornings I'll dunk and then I'll have a shower. So I'll probably spend 30 seconds to a minute just to wake me up. I guess refresh the nervous system and then I'll have a nice shower and head to training. But sauna, I'll use most evenings. I'll normally do 15 minutes at around 95 degrees. It's probably hotter than what they suggest.

4:19But I'd rather spend 12 to 15 minutes as opposed to, I guess, two rounds of 15 at 70 degrees. And again, for me, I believe it's obviously scientifically proven it increases red blood cells and all that stuff, decreased the chance of cancer. And as well as that, I think it's got enhanced muscle growth, which for me is important, especially being slightly smaller. I've got to really maximize the work I try and do in the gym. I would say pretty much every day, day after a game, I do twice. So I'd go morning and the evening.

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7:15i also i love my ice bath is currently in storage because we're in a rental at the moment but it's um i miss it yeah it's how cold you have it i have it down at the kind of at zero yeah zero zero one two keeping it at zero particularly in the winter it kind of freezes yeah it gets uh uh i have a brass monkey so it gets ice in the bottom right gets quite icy at the bottom and then and then it floats up so you're better off keeping it at kind of you know one or two degrees um and to be honest down at those levels it's pretty similar i would imagine but no i like it kind of as cold as possible but then it's weird you go to like a gym and they've got them at like 10 degrees and you jump in and it's it feels almost just as bad yeah yeah so no and i think i think that's like what is really the difference between 10 and 6 and 4 you know like i just think for me the way it makes me feel when i get out i just feel refreshed i feel revitalized i feel ready to attack the day which i think in in any walk of life is important to make sure you continue to get better week day in day out you know do you use ice after like a particularly brutal game So you said you use it in the morning, obviously, but if you took a few hard knocks in a proper match, would you use ice that evening?

8:34Yeah, so after most games, I will use the ice bath for two to four minutes. I think you're meant to do it for 10, but I can't really hack that, especially mine's outside, my ice bath's outside. So especially when it's the winter months, it's two to four is all right. You are at the absolute top of the game, right, in rugby. So what exactly does that entail? Obviously, we have people sat where you're sat who can take me through their training routine and how they recover. But it's different for you in the sense of, you know, the physicality of the sport that you play. And you mentioned earlier that, you know, you're on the slightly smaller side of, you know, people in your position, but also just professional rugby players generally.

9:17you know does that come into your mind at all when you're stepping out onto the field against a particularly big you know very physical team because obviously the potential for you to be more seriously hurt than others um is real surely yeah it's it's one of them things probably when i was younger i was even smaller and i probably didn't take the physical side as um importantly as I do now because I probably got out of jail free with my skills and probably my speed. But now I'm getting a bit more experienced and I guess playing in the bigger games. It's one of them things where I know every team, because we do it, we say target the fly half, run at the fly half, make him tackle.

10:05So you know, I guess, before you step into the arena that teams are coming for you, whether that's skullduggery with some late hits or pushing you on the floor or just repeatedly running at you to basically tire you out and put big bodies down your channel. So I guess mentally preparing yourself beforehand and knowing that's coming is one of the mechanisms I try and use. And then another way of doing it is flipping it and seeing it as a compliment. Like they're spending time in the meeting talking about putting you off your game. So for me, that's a compliment. Hopefully when I walk on the field, my shoulders go drop a little bit and I'm ready for the challenge.

10:46and I see it as a challenge being slightly smaller, probably small man syndrome a little bit, where almost bring it on, you know, whatever size, whatever speed, I'm willing to give it my best go. I do find it incredibly impressive when, you know, players like you and Johnny Wilkinson, you know, and other famous athletes who, you know, are not the size of a big second row or, you know, even some, you know, larger backs, you know the precision of the tackling and the and the mechanics of a great tackle are fascinating to me you know do you spend much time training like the perfect tackle and how to to really hit properly yeah so we do a lot on technique especially with concussion coming into the game more so we've got these gum shields that enable us to see the the g's and the force that our necks and heads are taking.

11:40So I guess from a physical point of view, we prepare our necks, we prepare our heads for the impacts by doing neck strength, by doing reactive neck strength in different positions because obviously rugby is a 360 sport. And as well as that, early in the week especially, when you're slowly recovering from the game, we still try and do basic technique of rugby tackling because in general, the better tacklers and the guys with better technique, in general, would stay free of danger more often because the head's in the right position. They're not getting the head on the wrong side and catching a knee.

12:17Their foot works perfectly in time. A lot of it's footwork and timing, especially being smaller, to drop at the right time and get them in the sweet spot, which is around the legs and the ass a little bit. So we do a lot of that at low level indoors. And then hopefully you've grooved it in that much that on the weekend, it's almost second nature. and you don't get your head on the wrong side. What are the three best exercises to train speed? You're obviously, you modestly said that you were slow earlier. I think you were talking about over slightly longer distances, maybe 5, 10K, et cetera. On the pitch, you're lightning fast.

12:55How do you train your speed? Is it just at the track? You know, what kind of shoes do you wear? Are you in spikes at the track training like 100 meters? Or how do you train your speed? I would say my speed, so when I was younger, I was very good over probably 10 to 15 meters. My acceleration was always decent. And then I was watching my brother play at Brighton College down in Sussex. And he played with Daley Thompson's son, who's obviously a legendary decathlete, won three Olympic goals, I think, probably four. He'd probably get angry at me for saying that. But he said he wants to help me with my speed because I don't move well.

13:37and then how old were you when he said this to you i reckon i was 19 he just said i don't know you don't move well he said oh yeah i want to help you i think i can make you move better you don't move well it's good of him yeah exactly no he's honest and for me i've always i've always preferred honesty um and so i took him up on that offer and um we've trained together for a while now probably four or five years on and off obviously schedule permitting but most pre-seasons I'd go down to Brighton for two or three weeks to do hill sprints to do jumping up and down steps single leg double leg I think a lot of the stuff that he used to do when he was when he was uh competing and one thing I loved about it was the was how basic the training is you don't need any fancy um sleds or anything like that we used the medicine we used the medicine some balls, some cones, and basically pegged up this hill, five times, walked down, five times, walked down.

14:37And for me, I think, first you need leg strength, but you also need reactive leg strength. So jumping up hills, single leg, double leg, as fast as you can, recruits the fast twitch muscle fibers. This is what he's taught me. And then in terms of longer, you probably do, we probably do 150s or 200 meters up a hill. and then you'd walk down recovery and your legs are starting to feel like jelly. But I think, again, for your mind and for your body to feel that and know that you can go again, I think is half the battle because I think your mind tries to protect your body from really exerting maximal effort.

15:17But if you can push that, I guess, capacity, hopefully on the field, which is a lot shorter distances on a flat track where the grass is pristine, you're ready to run 40, 50 meters and hopefully get in. That reminds me of something that a friend of mine, Stephen Scullion, told me the other day. He was just like, if you want to become a fast marathon runner, make it really hard for yourself. So he was like, let's go to Richmond. There are hills in Richmond. He was like, wear some banged up old shoes that don't have plates and run 40K hard, right? And run up hills. and make it one of the worst experiences of your life so that literally you can't wait for it to end.

16:00So that when you turn up to marathon day, you go, oh, this is nice. It's all flat. I've got my super shoes on. So he said if you can get used to kind of pain and misery in training a bit, obviously race day will always feel nicer because you've got that kind of additional spring in your step anyway from it being race day. You're surrounded by people. It's a race. you know the weather's nice you know you've got your music type thing so um he said you know the the beating that that's a great way to beat down the kind of demons of what a horrible run can be yeah no i think a lot of it's in the mind and it starts with that and like you said probably similarly for me whenever i get to run out twickenham or at the stoop with harlequins um the adrenaline's already there so the energy's there you're already excited so if you've done the hard work, I guess, when no one's watching and it's raining, you're pegging up this hill.

16:58When there's 80 ,000 people cheering you on and wanting you to succeed, it's a lot easier anyway. It's a lot more enjoyable. So it makes the training worthwhile, I guess. How important is a player's relationship with the coach? I think it's massively important. I think, first and foremost, from a personal point of view, I believe if you feel cared for and you feel like you belong in an environment, you're willing to give your absolute all. So I think that's the first thing for me personally. And then I think off the back of that is just honest feedback. Honest feedback on where you are, where you sit in the squad, and as well as that, just honest feedback on how to get better because ultimately we both want the same thing.

17:48We're in the same, I guess, organization. We both want to win. We both want to achieve things. So the more that there can be that clear line of feedback and conversation, for me, that makes me a whole lot better and definitely gets the best out of me. Who in rugby has given you the most honest feedback, as you put it, that has been helpful to your development? I'd say number one would be Johnny Wilkinson. Obviously, I looked up to him growing up when he was a player. the things he could do on the field was remarkable. But I think as I've got to know him more over the years, I would say the biggest strength that he had was his mindset, the way he's able to deal with pressure, the way he's able to deal with scenarios and things that he might not want.

18:41Very calm, very level. But he tells me straight, which I enjoy. I would say him. I would say Daley Thompson as well. again he's like i said that that first experience was he just said to me you don't move well enough and you're too slow which for me was obviously an eye-opener but i i prefer it that way you know i prefer it that way as opposed to dilly-dallying around um when you say wilkinson tells you it's straight you know what what's what's something negative he's pulled you up on yeah so a lot a lot of what we do what i do with johnny is around um trusting the power that's within me and committing to that whether there's zero people watching the British Lions coach the England coach the Harlequins coach committing to what we said we're going to do as in terms of kicking so if he sees anything that where I'm not committing or I'm half checking out in the moment I think that he just goes you're not committing why aren't you committing so take a walk around do some kicks without the ball you need to commit you've changed because someone's watching you've changed because and for me that's the biggest thing but for me that's a that's a big criticism because it's all in my control if i don't if i don't commit wholeheartedly and it misses i've got no no reason you know whereas if i commit wholeheartedly and i miss at least i get the feedback from the kick and from that experience that i can grow into the next one whereas if i second guessing or trying to manufacture it to go through the posts.

20:21That's the biggest thing that frustrates him. And I don't like frustrating him. So. Before you came to know Johnny, had you heard any, you know, whimsical stories from older players before you became friends? Yeah. So firstly, because I was a big fan of his, I read his book. And again, his book showed that perfectionism or the amount of perfectionism he had in his training. I think he struggled from what I've read in terms of anxiety and dealing with being elevated. I think he won the World Cup with that team when he was 22. So he's suddenly gone from a kid who's just playing for the love of the game and for enjoyment to, I think I read in the book, he couldn't leave the hotel in Australia, which is quite an isolating place, especially when I guess you have anxiety already.

21:23This is only from my understanding, but you hear those type of stories. You hear the stories of him holding buses late after training, and I almost thought that was the way that I wanted to go um when i was younger pure complete discipline complete focus and and determination which i think um is important however for me personally i've tried that and i've tried elements of that and i feel it lacks for for me it was it didn't i don't think it really worked it was too serious it was too too much I felt I had to tick off so many boxes and I would say I prefer being slightly more laid back almost go with the flow a little bit let's hope Johnny doesn't hear that yeah hopefully hopefully not I'm only joking literally the hairs on the back of my neck stood up when you were talking about them winning the world cup I remember where I was I remember who I was with I remember the play like exactly like it's it's pretty amazing you know that moment for well firstly for English sports, but just generally, I think that has to be one of the most memorable moments in British history.

22:41I think it is one of the most memorable I have in any English sport that I've ever watched. Sporting moments, I should say. Sporting moments, yeah. For me, how it went from the 80-minute game to extra time, the ebbling and flowing between Australia taking the lead, England taking the lead. But I think one thing, having spent some time with different players from that team, their determination, their hunger, their desire, and their cohesiveness has always shone through whenever I've seen them together or individually. And you can tell that they're super proud about that moment and how much that's bound them together as a group.

23:25Because they're the only team who's done it so far. And yeah, like you said, it's remarkable. it makes me makes me smile as well have you seen the clip of Henry Pollock licking his lips at the All Black hacker yeah yeah I think I was I think I was slightly next to him yeah yeah yeah that was that was a good day how does it feel to play them like you know no it's unbelievable again it's that's probably a very memorable moment for me playing for England my first time playing against the All Blacks facing off against the hacker obviously you hear about it you watch it as a kid you try and learn it I tried to learn it when I was growing up and And to be able to look opposite it and feel the energy, feel the togetherness of their team, feel the challenge that they're proposing to you, yeah, it's class.

24:14And it makes you, it made me desperate to beat them. I don't know why. It's almost like they're challenging you by shouting and their war dance that you almost want to bring it to them. And we always try and do something slightly different in the times we faced off at the HACO, whether that's walk forward, create a V, and these sort of things are, I think, exciting and hopefully exciting for the fans as well. Very much so. I can't imagine the feeling of being stood there, you know, under really quantifiable pressure to kick, you know, even if it wasn't a gimme. Like, just when, you know, your team might be behind by a couple of points, kick makes all the difference.

24:58and like the whole country is just desperate for you to to to sink it and that'd be an incredibly difficult moment do you do you try and drown out the noise at all with with any thought process and has has somebody you said earlier that you um have people to talk to on the on the on your mental capacity the side of things um you know anxiety i think you mentioned but do you have coaching for specific scenarios in matches.

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27:21yeah so again i learned this uh off a guy who i've worked with off the field regarding my mental capacity and um it's around controlling your breath controlling your breathing especially when uh because my dad loves his stats so whenever he's he's told me whenever i'd play a part in a try or i have a long run the chances of me getting the kick off the back of that goes down but probably because the adrenaline, the excitement of me jumping and celebrating with my teammate or me scoring. Obviously, the passion's so high when something happens like that in a game. But for me, my next job is to kick the goal for the boys.

28:01So a few techniques that I'd use would be I'd redo my socks, which is almost for me an anchor to ground myself again and know that I'm about to head into the next moment. And then I, as I'm going back to the, to the mark, I do a few breaths and I normally use the, is it four, seven, eight breathing, which is basically you inhale for four, you try and hold your breath for seven, and then you slowly exhale out your mouth, which is, I think it's a technique that army officers use to basically downregulate and control their nervous system so I try and do that to stay level and and and be calm in that moment and then ultimately I because I pride myself for my preparation I bet myself that I've kicked that in training hundreds of times thousands of times that I almost try and think of a couple of things so I think chest to ball hit up to one o 'clock so it means chest right on the panel and then my leg line needs to be not 12 o 'clock to one o 'clock, which hopefully if I do those two things and I commit to those things like Johnny says, the result would look after itself.

29:11But it starts well before. To one o 'clock? Yeah. So kicking almost to right post. Oh, wow. Because naturally... Oh, I see. Okay, sorry. I thought you meant your leg to come through. So you would aim slightly right? So I'd aim just right center. Yeah. And my leg line, so if my chest is coming here, my leg line would be there so that the angle of my leg isn't effectively 90 degrees to my chest because the minute you start going out to win the ball can go that way or that way whereas if you commit to that leg line it's only going to miss one side in general you hope to you hope to only miss one way who is the strongest person on the England team at the moment?

29:55Ellis Denge he's a beast he's a beast He's a beast. And also the thing with Genji is he's, I think he does the most weights in the gym in terms of bench and squat. But he's relatively quick as well. So his power to weight ratio is unbelievable. I think he's at 130 kilos and he jumps as high as some of the backs. So to stop that when he's running down your channel is pretty difficult. We talk a lot about momentum and all that stuff. When you're looking to tackle someone like that, you're basically just wrapping them up at the legs and just using their own momentum to drop them, right? Were you to head in like a spear into that, it could be all kinds of trouble, no?

30:43Yeah, especially for someone who's around 84 kilos when I play. Yeah, you almost want to find an angle and then use his momentum to bring him down, whereas the forwards need to dead stop him right on the gain line because the bigger the game, you can't give a meter, you know, you can't give half a meter because off the back of that, the attack or on the front foot. But for me, I try and sprint as fast as I can at him so he doesn't get enough speed and then hopefully get my foot in close and use momentum to drag him down. A huge part of your game is understanding, you know, where everyone is and you're at the kind of epicenter of it as fly half you need you know extraordinary kind of skill and talent to be able to you know play make the the game i suppose is bench pressing and be and having you know a high density of muscle mass and being physically strong very important in your role as a fly half or not so much for me i would i would just say as long as you're comfortable holding your own in the physical side of the game I think there's other things that we I guess in our role we have to focus on that probably are more important whether that be play calling, whether that be knowing everyone's role so I do a fair bit of visualization day before a game where I draw a pitch map for me that's I would say more important to me in my week than getting one extra set of bench in or one extra set of squat in.

32:27So take me through the pitch map. So how does that, like, what do you do with that? So I'll normally sit down night before a game and basically get an A4 sheet of paper and draw a pitch out. And in the week, we discuss with the line-out callers around best plays to start the game, best numbers to go with to catch the opposition off guard. And we'll align that with the line-out coach and the attack coach. So once I've got all that information and we've discussed it with the line-out caller of the game, I'll know the first plays that I want to call from different field positions. So effectively, I'll draw the pitch out and then I'll put on the right-hand side, I'll put my first plays from each region and then I'll shut my eyes and go through the options in those scenarios.

33:18and then I'd make up a situation in the head. So I'd say, okay, we've got a yellow card. What's the best way for us to get the ball in and out and not change too much of the set play that we've practiced in the week? So then I'll call that in my head and then I'll write that down and I'll go through the options again, front line, back door, backfield space. So it takes me around 10 to 15 minutes, but I think for me it gives me that ultimate clarity that when I go to sleep the night before a game I'm ready to go and I'm ready to express myself because I've done all the work beforehand. So you've almost visualized scenarios prior to arriving at the game?

34:05Yeah, exactly. Scenarios of, okay, we previewed that they're going to defend like this, they're not defending like this, where's the space? so it's almost like little trigger questions I'll ask myself for me playing to the space is the most important thing so if they cover that area I've got that space and I've got backfield space and I've got space out the back if they're wide out the backs off I've got backfield space and front line and it's just trying to see those obviously you can't fully replicate it but trying to see those beforehand does help Do you guys do any breath work? We do some breath work when there's a break and play in a game.

34:47Really? Yeah, one of the leaders would go two breaths on me, two, three, and we all go together, we all go out again. And again, I think it's, I don't know the exact science, but I think it's, one, it's good for connectivity of the group so that people aren't looking at the crowd, looking at their family or looking at the screen. But secondly, it's, I think there's a physiological response as well. Breathing is, I don't practice it, but I have done it a few times, like some breathing sessions. I used to just think it was just rubbish. I couldn't understand the point of sitting down and breathing heavily for a while.

35:30And I came across the Wim Hof's book. You'd like it, by the way, if you haven't read it. No, I haven't read it yet. Because it's obviously about ice bathing and breath work. and I was on a flight once and I was reading it and it had this description of kind of these breathing exercises that you can just do anywhere. And I was on an easy jet flight to Spain and I literally did the breathing exercises and I couldn't believe like what was happening to me. It's the most crazy, like if you haven't done it, you should absolutely do it. Even if it's just to like experience it once, right? It's Wim Hof's book, read it, do what it's like on page three or four or something and like you skip to it if you want and just do that like I had like electricity basically like pumping through my body you feel like something out of a Marvel film have you done the breathing thing yeah I've done it and my arms went numb you won't fucking believe it it was really weird it's good it's insane mate you won't believe it you'll want to jump in a bathtub and hold your breath yeah yeah we did it I've done it in a group thing we actually did it here and I said we're all lying on the floor doing it I completely lost any sense that anyone else was there I lost consciousness almost twice and I had to be brought back in by the and you don't even feel it is it safe doing it on your own?

36:51I wouldn't tomo breathe on my own you'll wake up like an hour nothing's going to happen to you but you'll exit this room serious and you'll just be somewhere else and you'll come back later if you're in a rush for a meeting it's no good you know I've only done it once and the one time I did it I had a floating above me experience and my arms went all numb yeah man it's like taking acid or something seriously honestly it's wild it is completely insane afterwards though the thing you get that like afterwards it's all kind of weird you lose sense of time completely completely you could be like in space yeah I thought we were doing it for like five minutes it is math I'll try it we've been doing it for like an hour and then like that feeling when you come back too it's like like euphoric and you feel just like so and you could be you could be in like a freezing cold room like like covered in sweat like boiling hot that you'll bring your body temperature up to like sauna levels it's it's it's mad it is like i've never been more surprised by anything in my life than that it's insane like anyway by the way this is not an act of breathing or whatever but it is insane right like that's just here it's in the room like you could do it now and it's it's it's pretty remarkable and you kind of you can get lightheaded and obviously you can go too far you can actually just you can you can become like like unresponsive from breathing heavily it's pretty you wouldn't have thought it no right i would have thought that i could hyperventilate in a room for as long as i want and not feel anything that's definitely not the case um no i'll try it I'll try it.

38:28Chris Robshaw was in here and he was telling us about you coming up as an extraordinary talent. Do you remember those early sessions when you first met him in those early days? All I remember was trying to rush my exams so I could get out on the field with the England rugby team. Yeah, to be invited to a session like that by Eddie Jones, who's a remarkable coach, was pinching myself when he invited me. What's the feeling? so like obviously it's been a dream of yours I'm imagining by this stage to play for England where were you when you got the call like how can you remember the message or the call or the voicemail or whatever so I was still at school and it was exam season so it was like June, July and I think England used to train in Brighton at Brighton College because Eddie liked it there and so whenever they used to train I'd try and miss as many lessons as I could to get out on the field and watch them.

39:28And then we played a game the week before on a Wednesday night, and I think Eddie was already there, and he came along with our head coach. And he asked, this is the story that my head coach told me, he asked if I would be able to train, because they're shorter numbers or something. So when the coach asked me, the Mr. Boy from Brighton College, he asked me, I said yes straight away. So that was the first time. And then I knew, I realized I had an exam. on the same day he wanted me to train. So I was stressing out about how do I get out of this exam? Because I want to train, exactly. Yeah, breath was the key.

40:03So I went to school that morning. I wore my rugby socks already with my black shoes on. And I basically, I was one of them guys who hand their paper in early because I was so excited to get outside. Handed my paper in, which was already embarrassing in itself because I always took the piss out of those people who did that. But I left the exam. But did you kind of, you finished the exam? Yeah, I did it as quickly as I could. Did you well? And I finished the exam. I did all right. I think at A level I got an A and two Bs. That's all right, isn't it? Yeah, I'll take that. That's okay. I'll take that, yeah, exactly.

40:42And I remember going to the changing room and seeing all those guys, Danny Kerr, Chris Robshaw, Marla was there, Marlon Yard Cipriani George Ford so guys that I used to when I was still watching at the time and I think the message Eddie gave me was just be yourself and enjoy yourself which has always stuck with me because I think when you get the opportunity to play elite sport and play with the best players in the world I think there's a tendency you can go in your shell and you can worry about different things when actually the main reason why I started playing rugby was because I loved the game and I loved lobbing a ball around I loved making defenders fall over and me sidestepping through them that gave me a lot of joy and just because it was an England jersey doesn't mean I need to change anything like that so to have that feedback and I guess that honesty early on from Eddie was amazing it allowed me to relax into the session and I think I scored a try as well on the home ground which was pretty cool Was it incredible for all the reasons you think it might be?

41:52Like there's not, there's pressure, but not really, right? You're there just to shine and have a great time, right? So like, it's almost kind of, if it goes badly, it's a shame, but kind of nobody's expecting too much from you. So you've got that real ability to just unleash, you know, and a bit of flair. Yeah, exactly. You've got complete freedom. Like you said, you almost go in nothing to lose. if you have, I guess, an awful session. No one expects you to do anything anyway, but if you start chip kicking or trying different things and they come off, who knows? Would Cipriani fly half at the time?

42:27I think it was George Ford and Cipriani, yeah. George Ford, Cipriani. I think Farrell was still playing in the finals, but those were the two fly-offs that were there. And they both helped me a lot on the field and after the sessions they would do extras and stuff with me and back then and I try and still live like this now. I always want to be a sponge and learn off as many people as I can but to do that with those two guys and for them to open their arms to me, you know, they didn't have to spend time with me but they did so very grateful for that opportunity. Pretty cool. I always used to love Cipriani's style of play.

43:04Did you, were you, what's it like playing against him? Oh, you almost don't know where he's going to throw the ball. the way he uses deception at the line. He looks so chill the whole time. Nothing seems to really bother him. I'd say that's fair. He's like that generally. No, I always loved playing against him. Again, he was someone that I looked up to growing up. I loved his style like you and he played with a certain amount of freedom that almost disregarded mistakes or error because he was so into the next thing. And it's something that really inspired me growing up. And I was lucky enough, I swapped a shirt with him before he left Wasp, which was pretty cool.

43:49What's your nutrition like? Is it tailored to you? Are you pretty relaxed with it? What's the deal? Yeah, I would say I'm pretty relaxed. I've tried different meal prep stuff and I've tried cooking at home based on the stuff that's been delivered. And I enjoyed that for a period, but I felt that there wasn't the, I love my food and there wasn't the freedom of, I guess, listening to your body and feeling what you want that certain night. And for me, that was important, not just for the body, but for the mind, like soul food, you know, like coming home after a long training day and you're shattered and you just want to have, it might not be specifically correct, but your mind and your stomach's telling you you want, I don't know, a Thai green curry or a pasta.

44:39I think it's so important to listen to what your body wants. Because genuinely, if you don't, you always find yourself flat. The meal plans, and they're amazing nowadays. They're class, exactly. It's callow, and I think Fresh Fitness Food is now called callow, and bits and bobs. But I don't know. Even if you're not in a calorie deficit, but you're eating perfect food, you still have the tendency to just feel flat because you know to your point there's no variety or anything yeah i feel like have you had a kahani curry no place here in london good yeah it's very good curry like love indian food love thai food um where were you born philippines so i enjoy it again like once in a while my mom will message me in brighton and probably it's against performance regime, you know, to drive down to Brighton, drive back on the same night.

45:38But similar to how you felt when you're breathing, when I drive home at 9 p.m. and I've just had pork sinigang, which is a famous Filipino dish with some rice. That sounds so good. It's unbelievable. I'm starving. Yeah, I'm starving as well. I'm driving home and I feel so much energy in me that I can attack whatever happens, even if I started at five the next day, because I feel I've fed my soul and I've listened to my body, you know? Obviously, there's got to be some level of discipline with that, which I try and do. I'm pretty religious about what I do night before a game. You're quite religious anyway, you're not?

46:18Yeah, I do. I pray most days with my mom. I pray on my own most days, and probably twice a week I pray with my mom. If it's not too personal, how how do you who do you pray to i pray to to god and are you i'm catholic catholic yeah so mom's from the philippines philippines a very um catholic religious country um my grandma her mom was very religious um and my mom again probably when she was growing up she's told me that she probably went away from it for a little bit um but certain things in her life towards probably 10 10 or so years ago 15 years ago she started praying a lot more and and that was the time we were growing up and she would almost force us to go to church and my brothers and I obviously being young and wanting to be outside and playing football rugby or cricket or watching football on TV.

47:19When we grew up in Asia, my mum almost forced us to go to church, which I thank her for now, but at the time was quite difficult. And I think for me, I got a lot closer to God around 2020, 2021, when my career almost, when I was 2017, 18, took off and I was happy and everything was going well and um and then there was a certain period probably on reflection i got complacent i got too excited and where i needed a bit of grounding and and i think the the game of rugby and and the not being selected for certain things being on the bench for quins my mom said oh why don't you try and get close to god again and i tried and it felt amazing it I just felt so free.

48:11I felt like I had no worries or anxieties about selection, about performing well because I, I guess, had a higher power and a higher purpose that I was chasing. It almost allowed me to disregard the day in, day out of playing rugby, doing the right thing. It helped me a lot.

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50:20It's such an interesting point on mindset, isn't it? When you kind of remove ego for whatever reason and become not subservient, it's the wrong word, but you're answering to a greater calling, a greater good that's less about you. yeah it's interesting you know i found it really interesting i wouldn't say i'm i know everything about it yeah i'm still i'm still exploring um the bible and stuff like that but for me the basic premise of just just doing good and and making people happy um focusing on that as opposed to trying to show off and show off my skills and all that stuff which probably when i was younger or definitely when i was younger i had a little bit of that in me and um like you said dropping the ego i think is the most important thing well i think you're a wonderful example to young men appreciate it man thank you no worries an iron man as you probably already know is is a 3.8k swim a 180k bike and then a full marathon right so 3.8k swim 180k is more like 181 actually bike and then a 42.2k run altogether.

51:32Who would win in an Ironman contest between Joe Mahler, Ellis Genge, Karl Snickler or Billy Vinupola? Sinclair. Huh? Sinclair. What did I say? I don't know what you said. You said Snickers. Did I say Snickers? Did I say Snickers? Okay. Okay. Who wins over those distances? I would say it would be close between Ellis Genj or Billy Vanapola. Yeah, I think Billy's obviously in the back row, so he's slightly, I would say he runs a little bit more than the other two in a game. But Genji is a bit of a freak athlete. Yeah, he's a beast. Yeah, he's a beast, like I said earlier. He's all right for the swim?

52:18Yeah, he's a better swimmer. I think Genji's actually a better swimmer. Marla don't swim, I don't think. he dips in the sea in Brighton. So I would say Genji, yeah. Genji just. What's one thing as an elite athlete that we can take away with us to become fitter? I think the most important thing is staying consistent over a period of time. I think when you, and only finding three things that you want to go after. I think if you start making a list of 10 things I want to do this month, your chances of hitting all those 10 every single day is lower than, I think, going after three things, whether that's sauna, waking up early and going for a run and sleeping at the right time.

53:09If you do those three things for 30 days, for 60 days, for 90 days, I think you'll see a massive improvement as opposed to flash in the pan stuff, which is I'm going to smash saunas for three days this week. And then in 30 days time, you're not doing a single sauna. So targeting maybe two or three things, up to five things maybe that you really deem important and staying consistent with them over a long period of time and not making them too strenuous and too hard to achieve because I think that also can demotivate you. Do things that you enjoy, that you think and know that can make an impact to your mood, to your fitness, to your well-being, and then stay consistent with it for a period of time.

53:52Marcus, thanks so much for taking the time to come in today. It's been a real pleasure. Good luck. Thank you very much. With upcoming games, and we wish you all the best. Thank you. See you soon.

54:08Thank you.