Ben Shephard's Secrets To Be Fit at 50

0:27Ben Shephard, thanks so much for joining me on Untappd.

0:30Spencer Matthews: Do you know it's quite exciting this, Spencer? Because I think I've probably interviewed you at least on four podcasts and five different TV shows. You've never interviewed me. I know. I'm very excited. I've always enjoyed your company and I love being interviewed by you. You're one of the more familiar faces in Britain on television. You've been on television, what, 20 years now? Yeah, more or less, yeah. 26, 27? On the channels that everyone watches. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Although there's more options now, right? There's more options to be watched and viewed. I'd love to at least begin the discussion around health, you know, what it means to be healthy at 50.

1:11The only reason I know that you're 50, by the way, is because you did an amazing men's health cover. I didn't make much of a fuss about it. No, but you did a men's health cover. You know, you looked great. And before you found this, I won't call it a recent health regime,

1:25Spencer Matthews: but is it fair to say that you've dialed it up in later life? I think that turning 50 was a moment for me to properly consider where I was, where I had been, where I was going. Not wanting to be morbid, but there's probably less ahead of me than there is behind me. I've got two teenage boys. In fact, gosh, one of them is nearly 21, so not teenagers at all, 19 and 20, nearly 21. What's that like, by the way? I wanted to speak about fathership with you. How are you finding having grown-up children? there's men living in my house. It's really odd. They eat all the food, they make shed loads of mess and they have a lot more fun than I'm having.

2:04Spencer Matthews: It's really annoying. I love it. I love it. Do you find yourself living a bit vicariously through that? Oh, unquestionably. Like from, like my eldest is at university studying maths down in Bristol, having an amazing time, brings all his housemates up and we just can't get enough of sitting around and sort of playing drinking games with them and just sort of being near them and being around them, me and Annie, because we met at university. We met at the same age that the boys are at now at 21. So there's so many moments where we're sort of looking at Sam with his mates and thinking, this is where we met.

2:35Spencer Matthews: This was the genesis of our relationship. And then Jack's 19 as well. So very much live vicariously through them. And they're a real catalyst as well, Spencer, for me turning 50 and thinking, okay, what do I want to be able to do in 20, 30, 40 years time? I love being fit and healthy. I've always taken that part of my life very seriously. I've always thrived in that sort of environment. It's probably the only bit that I really control myself as well. And because I have the power to control it, I take it very seriously. I really enjoy the discipline of it. And I wanted to, when I turned 50, I wanted to test myself to see, a bit like you with your seven challenge, you know, what could you actually achieve if you put your mind to it?

3:18Spencer Matthews: I think I wanted to test myself to see if I could get myself in the best physical shape I could ever be in at 50. But also actually what being fit at 50 was all about. It wasn't just physical shape. It was emotional shape. It was mental shape. It was all the other things. It was creative shape. Could I be in the best place that I've ever been at 50? And so that journey that I went on was really a bit of a discovery. I didn't know. I didn't know how my body would cope by putting the inputs, the physical inputs that I put on myself. What's the most surprising thing you've learned about your body?

3:55Spencer Matthews: I don't think I surprised myself. My body didn't surprise me in a way that I wasn't expecting. You know, my body reacted to me looking after it in a really sort of satisfactory way. Like in a way it's like, of course that makes sense. If I fuel myself well, if I stretch, if I don't overtrain, if I get good guidance on what I'm trying to do, if I sort of make sure the inputs that I'm taking on board are all positive, then, you know, there's a surprise. I feel fantastic. I feel great. I look really positive. And the reaction was great. What was your family's reaction to seeing the men's health cover?

4:32Spencer Matthews: My boys, I mean, you know, they're great mates of mine, but they're the biggest piss takers I have as well. And literally, it's like, oh, you know, like they'll see this and they'll be like, at least you've got your kit on, Dad. you know can you like around that time it's like any chance you could put your top back on like it's like they just merciless just with regards to someone will come into the house and and they'll say oh hi he literally just put his top on because you come in honestly just can't get enough walking past windows and mirrors um but i they they yeah they were all really positive um all really positive it's not fair is it when we get that unfair scrutiny it's really not fair

5:14Spencer Matthews: Losing weight can feel like a roller coaster, full of ups, downs, and being thrown for loops, like when someone brings donuts into the office, or your kids' dino nuggets start giving you that look again. That's why there's Noom. They combine GLP-1s to quiet the food noise with healthy habits that help you keep it quiet, even if you get off the meds. Their program is designed to make weight loss a smooth ride, helping you understand what drives you, so you can build better habits to not just lose weight, but keep it off. Noom. Lose for keeps. Get started at noom.com. Not all customers will clinically qualify for medications.

5:52Spencer Matthews: Individual results may vary.

6:38Hi, it's Mark Bittman from the podcast Food with Mark Bittman and the website The Bittman Project. One of the things that makes Whole Foods Market different is their commitment to quality standards. More than 500 ingredients are banned store-wide to give us peace of mind whether we're browsing through the store or shopping online. And it's been this way since 1980. Their selectivity makes your shopping easier. Shop Whole Foods Market in-store or online. Thank you.

7:11Spencer Matthews: like to be honest but i what i understand is i was doing it for my own personal reasons i wasn't doing it for anybody else i the the idea of the photo shoot came about sort of by chance really i did men's health in 2012 when i was 38 was the last time i'd done it which was a really great experience i loved men's health like you grown up reading it a bit of a bible really enjoyed the content really enjoyed looking at what they do and they they consider. And I suggested, you know, when I launched the Philip 50 thing online, I just did it on Instagram. We were watching the boys up in Edinburgh. They were in a show up in Edinburgh, which was fantastic.

7:51Spencer Matthews: And I said, look, I want to do this thing. I want to mark my 50th birthday. I want to do something. And I'm very good at saying I'm going to do these things and never actually getting around to it. So I just did it. And Mark started that journey in that August to see where I was going to get to. And as we were going along, I said to my management team, oh, look, you know, good mate of mine was a former editor of Men's Health back in the day. I wonder if we could maybe do a shoot with them so I could measure it up. Could I measure up to that shoot when I was 38? And the plan was to do something online with them.

8:24Spencer Matthews: The plan was never to be on the front cover. So, and I carried on going, great, that's brilliant. That's all I wanted. I because it's quite hard to measure your mental and emotional well-being, but you can measure your lean muscle. You can measure your body fat. So the metrics are quite easy to write down. So that was the point of the photo shoot, and people could see it, and I could see it, because it was for me to prove to myself that I could do it. And then we did the photo shoot, and they saw the photo shoot, and I did the podcast with Andrew, you know, Andrew Tracy, who's the fitness director at Men's Health, who I now do that podcast with.

8:58Spencer Matthews: and he said Ben your photo shoot you has has caused quite a stir in the office because we have a lot going on they want to do more with it than you than we had planned and then eventually they came back and said look we want to put it on the cover and it's gone on the cover in Spain it's gone on the cover in Germany I think last I heard they were going to try and put it in Italy I just and all of that is a sort of byproduct of what it wasn't what it was about for me it was about the journey it was about being accountable I think that's the thing Spencer I would say that I again it's not a surprise but the thing I took away from it is if you get up each morning and you look yourself in the mirror and say what am I going to do today that was better than I did yesterday and you hold yourself accountable then it's amazing what you can achieve and that's what I got from it I loved the journey I loved the challenge really enjoyed the feedback and the engagement that it got from people following it and it's been yeah it's been it's been quite a moment you know i feel like i marked my 50th in a in a in a decent way it's great you keep referring to it in the past i imagine it's still an ongoing oh you're absolutely right yes so but i'm interested like what i love about it so much is um you know you're not a professional athlete right so we we chat i still dream that i will be one day though i still harbored that no but this is i'm i'm really interested in almost kind of layman basic takeaways that you learned from this process?

10:25Because often I find myself slightly out of my depth, you know, chatting to Olympic gold medalists whose job it is to train and, you know, count their macros and understand, you know, calories in, you know, what they're burning, how often they're training. And it's quite hard to relate to that in many ways, because, you know, we work full time and we're very interested in health and fitness. But what are easy wins that people can take away? Obviously, there's, you know, consistency, good sleep, etc. But what made the biggest difference to you? I can already tell without asking you the question that there will have been a, oh my god, this is working so much more than I thought it would moments.

11:03Spencer Matthews: Unquestionably diet is a massive part of it. And I never really take the diet particularly seriously. And I really dialed down on the diet, make sure I was taking as much protein as I could. I think we were looking at two grams per kilo, if not more a day to try and maintain the lean muscle and to sort of help with the rest of the body taking supplements so looking after taking multivitamins i work with heights and balancing out my energy because i was definitely noticing that that had changed significantly as i was getting older my pattern of work was changing because i've gone from doing the breakfast show to doing more volume of work by doing the mid-morning show on this morning and having massive crashes, marry that up with looking after my diet.

11:46Spencer Matthews: And it's not complicated. You know, I think we had Paddy the Baddy on the podcast recently, on the Men's Health podcast. And he made a comment, it was really great. It was like, because he puts on a lot of weight between fights, and then he strips back, and he gets into incredible shape. I said, everyone keeps coming, what's the secret? It's not a secret. It's create a calorie deficit. if you want to lose weight, burn more calories than you're consuming. So understanding a simple process in that, and then that actually motivation comes from action as well, right? So everybody wants to get fit.

12:23Spencer Matthews: Everybody has this dream of losing a bit of weight, being healthy or whatever. But you've got to start. Once you start a little bit of that, it's amazing how the momentum builds. And I think that's the thing, the easy win for me is, if you take the first step, which is always the toughest step, it's all and I am and I'm sure you are saying you love your training you like working hard but we are still we'll prevaricate before we do something I will put a million things in the way before I put my trainers on and go for a run I will find all sorts of reasons to delay it or put it off but what I know is when eventually I've done it the benefit I get will be so much better than the feeling that I'm dealing with by putting it off and I got better and better at the discipline of that of just going sod it I'm going to go Just doing the difficult thing.

13:08Spencer Matthews: Just do it. You know, the Mel Robbins thing, give yourself five seconds or whatever it is. That bit of it isn't complicated. As Paddy said, the diet thing isn't complicated. We overcomplicate it in our heads. Having some guidance is brilliant. It's really, really helpful. I have a brilliant PT, Steve Coleman, that I work with. I've worked with for nearly 15 years now, who is fantastic at all of the detail and all of those bits and pieces. But he just leaves it to me to get on with governing my diet and sort of my motivation. And the more you do, the more you want to do. I mean, it's as simple as that.

13:41And so you're right, it was about my 50th,

13:44Spencer Matthews: but I've been able to keep it going because what the offshoot of doing that is that suddenly I'm working with lots of different companies now because they've seen what I've done. And because I did that photo shoot and I'm that bloke off the telly, I'm not a rock star and I'm not a movie star, so I'm much more relatable because lots of people wake up with me in the morning and I'm just that bloke who does the quiz show, they're kind of going, well, actually, maybe you can help us with this idea that we're trying to talk about. So that's been really fun. And it is an ongoing thing now and I'm really enjoying that side of it.

14:19Spencer Matthews: But if I go back to the boys, I definitely want to be sort of a good influence on them as well to understand that if they look after themselves now, which is what I did, you take it for granted when you're 19 and 20. I mean, you think you can, you burn the candle at both ends. You're on the offensive, right? I'm definitely more in the defensive now because I'm thinking, how do I do that down there? But if I look after myself now, then hopefully by the time I get to the other end, I'll still be playing golf with them. I'll still be running around with them. And if I'm lucky enough to have grandkids, I'll be kicking the ball about with them as well.

14:48Yeah, it's a beautiful thing the more you give to something, the more you get out of it. And compounding positive behavior for extended periods of time pays off. For so long in my life, I'd cut corners and, you know, just try the easy thing and, you know, hope for the easy money and, you know, just not really do the work. But you actually don't need to do much work at all with this stuff. You know, if you just, if you focus on being a little bit better, you know, than you were, you know, last week, this week and just, you know, wake early, go to bed early, eat clean if you can, you know, train a bit.

15:27Spencer Matthews: But don't give yourself a half time if you don't. Like I think quite a lot of, a lot of my friends have gone, and they beat themselves up. I didn't train today and I've eaten really badly. I'm like, well, that's okay. Do it tomorrow. Don't worry. And I've always been quite good at sort of not overly concerning myself. One of my meal motivations about trying to stay fit and healthy throughout my life is so I can go and enjoy myself. So I don't have to worry about what I'm going to eat. I don't have to worry about what I'm going to drink. I think there have to come times when you loosen the lead a bit.

15:58Otherwise, you start to feel like you're not behaving like a human. You'll need joy, right? If you go too hard at something, it's always at the expense of something else, right? And I think even for your sanity, just the odd filthy cheeseburger or something just goes down a tree. Body probably loves it as well. I think it's important to not always be operating at 100%. You experimented with some quite unusual recovery regimes. Can you tell me a bit about those?

16:28Spencer Matthews: So I love the heat. any sort of red light therapy sauna like on a cellular level that I found that incredibly comfortable and enjoyable and relaxing any of the cold stuff is anything but relaxing but it's incredibly invigorating so trying a bit of cryotherapy I didn't really struggle with cryotherapy and no matter how cold it went that was, you know, I felt pretty invigorated ice baths I will always struggle with but I always enjoy the moment you've got out at the other end of it I remember doing my first ice bath with Soccer Aid years ago, and they had some at Fulham, their training ground at Mossberg Park, and the absolute brutal pain, the bone ache in the bottom of your ankles when you were stood in this, because it was a vertical ice bath, it was like a bin really, but getting through that ache and then the euphoria when you come out afterwards, I've always, you know, I can hold on to the idea that it will be worth it, but you have to struggle.

17:26I did years ago with some friends

17:30Spencer Matthews: we were raising some money for the children's heart unit fund at the Newcastle, the Freeman in Newcastle they saved my son's, one of my best mates, lives when he was born he had a heart condition and so we ran five marathons in five days and then the next year we cycled two days across the country and we ran back five days in five and five days and you realise that actually the discipline of running a marathon is so mental like you've got to get there you've got to be able to unless your legs falling off but you can go you just go slowly it's going to hurt if you haven't done the training but you can get there but the thing that we all held on to at the end of each day was the ice bath because it was the only thing that stopped our legs hurting for a short period of time so i got so i think ice is a recovery as painful as it is is uh has been it has had an incredible impact there's also something else that's interesting to me about the ice bathing because because it's difficult you know it is unpleasant right so that to me very much counts as you know doing the difficult thing even though it's it's just there you know it doesn't require an hour of your time it doesn't require you know it's quite it's quite a quick easy fix for a big dopamine boost that doesn't trigger loads of serotonin it doesn't stress you out it does the opposite like in actual fact you know You get a similar hit from ice bathing as you would from drugs type thing.

18:52And it lasts a good couple of hours. What the science says is that you'll actually be less kind of stressed. Your cortisol won't spike throughout the day because you've done that very difficult kind of shocking thing already. It's also, it's tough and it's rough. And it's kind of like, you know when you get out that you've done something tricky. It's the opposite of comfort. Yeah, is it?

19:16Spencer Matthews: there's this brilliant phrase that we were talking about the other day I hadn't heard of it your young podcast listeners and viewers will know it undoubtedly it's friction maxing I've not heard of it do you know what friction maxing is? so friction maxing is a a Gen Z or millennial phrase where basically you purposely make things difficult to get the satisfaction of doing the difficult thing so in a world where we are constantly offered shortcuts and easy ways of getting around things rather than watching a film you read the book because you know reading the book is a harder way of understanding the story rather than getting a takeaway, you make dinner in the evening.

19:54Spencer Matthews: That's friction-maxing, which I thought was a really fantastic phrase. And there are moments along in my life where I will purposely do things like that. I will make it harder because I know once I've got to the other side of whatever it is that I'm doing, the satisfaction of doing it will be all the more fulfilling. That is generally very good advice, right? Like the times where I've been the most, you know, call it disappointed in myself or felt the least motivated are times when you are not doing the difficult thing. You know, you're waiting for the shortcut. You're waiting for the phone to ring.

20:27You know, you're drinking lots of alcohol. You're sat on your ass all weekend. You know, you're not chasing health and fitness goals. You're not looking after your mind. You know, and it's, you know, you're doing the easy thing, right? It's what lots of people would like to do, just kind of be comfortable. And ultimately, discomfort leads to change and progress ultimately, I think.

20:52Spencer Matthews: Yeah. And look, I am like many people, and I sort of look at certainly my 19-year-old, and I am very guilty of wanting the easy route of an occasion and needing to take the easy route quite regularly because everything else is sort of maxing out, which is fine. and I would never judge somebody for wanting to do that. But personally, when it comes down to sort of the satisfaction of what I achieved for that for my 50th and what I'm hopefully still doing. And, you know, I don't take any of it granted as well because the difference between, I'm much older than you. You're mid, late 30s? I'm 37. Yeah, so sort of early, late 30s, yeah.

21:30Spencer Matthews: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm over my 50s now. So I am very conscious that my body won't react as well and as quickly as I want it to for the stress that I'm putting it through, the things that I ask it to do. So I'm much more respectful of that and understand that more. So not taking the easy route. So actually stretching before I go for a run rather than just putting my trains on and going out for a run. Stretching when I get back, doing all those things that you're talking about is something that I'm sort of, the discipline of that is something I get the benefit from now. At the time of recording this, it's the 4th of February.

22:08you have just done dry january that was a long time how did it go how did you feel i look so

22:17Spencer Matthews: i do it every year much to my wife's annoyance uh i have a very wet to december just so anybody knows and i had a very wet february the first as well but i i enjoy the discipline of it uh i enjoy sort of i don't necessarily notice my skin getting better my sleep getting better and all those sorts of things. But mentally, I feel quite strong about the fact that I've been able to do it. So I enjoy that side of it. I think the options as well, the non-alcoholic drink options are so much better, as you yourself, you have a business built around all of those sorts of things. So I will go to the pub, I meet my friends in the pub, and I'll have a Guinness Zero, which is great, or Lucky Saint, or whatever.

22:58I mean, you've got non-alcoholic beers on tap, which I think is

23:02Spencer Matthews: incredible and that the advent of that has made it so much easier it's interesting that you say what you don't notice any better sleep or anything i'm not not i suppose you're not abusing alcohol like when you do drink you probably just might have argued that i did on the first of february like i enjoy drinking my friends as much as as anybody else and i really really enjoy that and yes okay the next day i will go but but i've also been pretty stubborn about not letting myself wallow. Like I've always had that thing. I remember at university it's like if I'm going to go and have a big night I can only balance that up if I make sure I do stuff the next day.

23:39Spencer Matthews: I very rarely will wallow around in a hangover. I'll go right. I can only deal with this mentally by going I'm not going to let it bother me. So I have to get up. I have to do stuff. Because otherwise I feel like I feel like that compromises too much. I found out today actually that you did a sport relief fight against Lamar which you won you look surprised well I got battered you see I fought Wayne Bridge yeah I'd rather fight Lamar than Wayne Bridge why is that is Lamar a fighter am I or Wayne is yeah that's an interesting question isn't it I love the like why is that we're immediately getting into I don't know is Lamar I don't know I think you're well it comes down to what you're willing to put on the line on the night.

24:36Spencer Matthews: And regardless of who I was going to fight, whether it would have been Wayne or Lamar or anybody, so my mental approach to that, it was the most extraordinary experience. I absolutely loved it. It's one of the highlights of the physical challenges, the mental challenge, that visceral feeling of getting into the ring, knowing that we were doing it live or on television for an amazing charity. My friends were all there. My family were all there. Manchester? We did it at a TV centre in London. Oh, wow. Yeah, we did it in the, it's actually in the old TV centre. No headguards? No, we had headguards back then.

25:14Spencer Matthews: Yeah, yeah, we had headguards back then. I think the rules have changed since, haven't they?

25:20Spencer Matthews: Losing weight can feel like a roller coaster, Full of ups, downs, and being thrown for loops. Like when someone brings donuts into the office. Or your kids' dino nuggets start giving you that look again. That's why there's Noom. They combine GLP-1s to quiet the food noise with healthy habits that help you keep it quiet, even if you get off the meds. Their program is designed to make weight loss a smooth ride, helping you understand what drives you. So you can build better habits to not just lose weight, but keep it off. Noom. Lose for keeps. Get started at Noom.com. Not all customers will clinically qualify for medications.

25:57Spencer Matthews: Individual results may vary.

26:43Hi, it's Mark Bittman from the podcast Food with Mark Bittman and the website The Bittman Project. One of the things that makes Whole Foods Market different is their commitment to quality standards. More than 500-degree insert bands store-wide to give us peace of mind whether we're browsing through the store or shopping online. And it's been this way since 1980. Their selectivity makes your shopping easier. Shop Whole Foods Market in-store or online. Thank you.

27:16I had no head guard in Manchester and look, not winching about it Wayne turns out has a fair amount of boxing experience I did not he's also a professional athlete so, I don't know I realised about one minute into the first round that the odds were somewhat skewed in the sense that if you got it look it was no the first yeah it was quite he was pretty good

27:50Spencer Matthews: but this when was this? I'm not entirely sure 2019 you're in a completely different place now though right? oh yeah yeah no I'll take a rematch so this is I think that's the really interesting thing is that you're if you think about where you were then and where you are now I think if I go back to I can't remember what year it was that Lamar and I did it in fact they stopped doing it for a while after that because they got really worried because you know I didn't know what Lamar's experience was I could only going back to control I could only control how I approached that and I said to myself I had brilliant people around me and the team that trained me were fantastic and I loved all of it but the all I said to myself was there's only one way he's going to beat me and that's if he's a better boxer than me he won't want it more than me he won't be fitter than I am he won't have trained as hard as I have because they were the things I could control if he was a better boxer than me I cannot control that and Lamar could have done some boxing I didn't know and I had no experience or understanding and you get sort of a bit of feedback of what's happening from their camp to our camp and this that and the other and as it turns out he wasn't a better boxer than me and it was an incredible night and an amazing feeling and yeah I smashed him up it was great but but I think the thing is even though but the thing I think because I really I mean Lamar's a great guy amazing singer and there's a connection that happened because we did that you and Wayne shared an amazing experience that night right regardless of the result you were both willing to lace on your gloves and do something as full on as that and it is full on I don't know about you we didn't have enough water in the ring my tongue stuck to the roof of my mouth the anxiety and the adrenaline was so intense it was so intense and I didn't know what happened in the fight and essentially we were throwing our arms around and there was very little technique or anything involved and he was incredible I just, I came out on top and was lucky on the night but had I lost genuinely think this and I'm quite a competitive person a bit like you, Spencer had I lost, I would have been alright with it because I'd have gone, look if fair and square, if he'd beaten me it's because he was a better boxer than me and it sounds like Wayne was a better boxer than me so you couldn't have controlled that do you know what I mean?

30:07Spencer Matthews: so you couldn't have beaten him to be fair to Lamai he hit me harder than anyone else had hit me in the first minute the first round of the first minute he walked out we both walked out and he caught me with a really great punch and that was a moment but the guys that trained me down at the Fitzroy Lodge this amazing boxing legend Mickey Carney was Mickey Mickey's not with us unfortunately and Mark and Adam who were the trainers they were just so patient and so passionate about it. And just to soak up a little bit of the history of that boxing club. And for a short period of my life to immerse myself in the world of boxing was a real privilege.

30:48Spencer Matthews: And the funny thing was, the really funny thing was that it was, we've recorded it on the Wednesday and it went out on the Friday night. And we all went out afterwards. It was great. And on the way home, one of my mates texted us all and he went, they're still taking bets on Ben's fight. so the betting company didn't realise that it was pre-recorded so all my mates but it was a novelty bet so you couldn't put a lot of money on so all my mates started lobbing loads of money on me to win because they knew we'd won unfortunately what happened by the time it went out on the Friday they had worked this out so they pulled all the bets but for one night only not only did I win the fight but we were all we had cheated the odds as well that's a real shame I am talking about betting I asked one of my friends who used to drink a lot, same as me at the time, to place a bet on myself to win the jump.

31:39Oh, did you? And he was supposed to, like, the odds were extraordinary. And it was right at the very beginning. So, like, it was kind of... And that was live, right? No, no, but I think right at the start, the odds of me winning were, like, 55 to 1 or something. So I told him, just for the fun of it, you know, just lump, you know, I reckon I'll come in the top three or whatever. So just lump some money on. and I only remembered this when I won and physically I landed and then it was like a second wave of like oh my god we're going to make loads of money and he forgot I called him up I was like did you do it and he was like oh no fuck mate I forgot I was just like you what I couldn't believe it I was furious I'd love to talk to you broadly about fame like you're quite a private person and always have been quite a private person having spent a bit of time with you you strike me as somebody that you know probably wouldn't share lots of details publicly about your life and your relationships and you know you're I wouldn't say you're reserved but hopefully you know what I mean you know you wouldn't be a you're certainly not an attention seeking style of celebrity but I think it's fair to say that you are obviously very well known and have been you know gracing our tv screens for many many for decades

33:02Spencer Matthews: um how do you balance that if i'm honest it doesn't come into my life in any way shape or form i don't think about it i don't consider it i love the job that i do i get to do a job that i understand has this unique part of it which is lots of people get to see you at work i've learned that i've learned to do my job in the public eye i've made a hell of a lot of mistakes and i've failed over and over again. And I don't take any of it for granted. But I also don't, I don't seek those things. I all I really want to be able to do is is communicate and share my enthusiasm for stories and people's stories, whether that's a quiz show and making sure people have the best time they can so we can make the best show we can have, whether it's on the summit, where I'm trying to get these 14 people to the top of mountain, they're all dealing with their own personal summits along the way, whether it's this morning, where we could be interviewing a couple who have lost a child through cancer, or where we could be talking about politics or whatever it is, like, there is a real privilege to the job that I do that I value and I take I don't take for granted.

34:05Spencer Matthews: But the bit that comes with it, there's some really nice moments along the way. But I don't think about it, Spencer, I don't worry about it. I don't, it doesn't, it doesn't really impact our lives as a family. I don't think, you know, there will be occasions when I'm with the family and someone will want a picture, but the vast majority of people are really lovely. And they just want to come over and say, Oh, we saw that thing you did. It was really good fun. Or my mum loves tipping point or my gran loves this, or you're on this morning with so-and-so. And that was really, you know, people want to share their experience of what you've done.

34:38Spencer Matthews: and that's I don't mind that at all I love the job that I do and I sometimes people say to me I get the tube I ride line bikes I take public transport as often as I can just because it's quicker and easier I walk everywhere and people say how can you do that it's amazing how inconspicuous you can be walking around the city if you just head down and walking around and I don't notice. I really, really don't notice because I'm not looking for it and I don't expect it. It's always quite a surprise when someone comes up and says, we used to get quite a lot when I was doing the breakfast show, I woke up with you this morning, Ben.

35:21Spencer Matthews: You know, things like that, which is really lovely and funny, but it always was a shock to me because you forget we don't have a live audience in terms of I'm not looking at them. And I think Andy Peters was my first boss. He was the guy who gave me my first breaking telly. and he said Andy Peters yeah yeah yeah gave you your first break in telly yeah yeah yeah so Andy who had been behind the camera in front of the camera at the BBC and then went to ITV as a producer and then was moving to Channel 4 and he set up all the youth were you thinking of the same Andy Peters yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah he was TV producer same guy does all the competitions now on ITV really yeah yeah yeah oh all of us me, Dermot Fernan Kay Jane Middlemiss Margarita like there's loads of people that Andy gave their first break to in telly he's an amazing TV producer he's an amazing TV mind wow I had no idea oh yeah yeah the things that he's incredible absolutely incredible guy I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing now if Andy hadn't seen me at an audition when I just left university and went I'd quite like to see a bit more of that guy doing the audition can we get him back what is it that drew you into the world of TV um if fame didn't play a factor and I'm not suggesting it did it's just interesting to me you know I think most people that go into television, I think at least are aware of the idea that they might be famous.

36:41Spencer Matthews: I'll come back to that idea of fame because Andy's got a really good sort of illusion for what he believes. There's a difference between being well-known and there's a difference between famous. So the difference between being well-known is being on television where people put the telly on and they don't have to pay for it per se and you're just there. And there's a difference between being famous, like being a movie star or a TV star or a pop star. Someone's paying money to come and see you do things. now that line's blurred a lot more now because people are doing podcasts and then they're doing theatre shows and you can pay tickets to go and see them but I think the essence of what he was saying was we're just on telly in the morning so we're well known but you're not famous famous is a different thing completely it's a different animal but going back to why I got into telly I mean I was in the right place at the right time I was at university got a degree in dance and theatre arts so I was trained as a dancer and my plan I think was to go well my plan wasn't not I think my plan was to go to drama school after that and try and get into acting and I started working as a runner for a TV company I was at university in Birmingham who made the local weather so they made the local weather for the local news in the Midlands, in Wales and for the south west but they did it all out of the jewellery quarter in Birmingham where I was at university and I got a job working for them painting walls, buying coffees picking up dry cleaning, getting sandwiches for whoever and one of the producers there, a woman called Michelle Ann Carter, she said, Ben, have you ever thought about being a TV presenter?

38:07Spencer Matthews: And I was like, no, I haven't actually. And I loved telly. It makes perfect sense now, Spencer. This is the ridiculous thing. It makes perfect sense that I ended up in the world of television. But no one did go into telly. In the late 80s and early 90s, there was no route to telly. If you went to see a job employer counsellor or whatever they said at university, I can't remember what they called, careers advisor. Careers advisor, I think I was advised to go into catering. by my careers advisor at school because I did a Myers-Briggs and they sort of work out with you. Such a specific thing to advise.

38:35Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

38:36Spencer Matthews: Catering. You want to go into catering? And I really did. That would have been the worst thing I could have ever done. Anybody that has ever suffered my catering. So she suggested I try and get into telly. And then from there, I got a showreel together. And that showreel, I got an audition. I met Andy at the audition. So it was never about the other side of it. It was just about, God, this is great. Look at these cameras. this feels fun, this feels exciting. And yeah, so I sort of happened to be on a path, got some great advice from someone. And then along the way, I've been very lucky because I've had incredible advocates that have helped me.

39:11Spencer Matthews: Andy, a couple of amazing producers who took me to GMTV, Misbah Alvey and Ruby Qureshi, who then set up Entertainment Today. I was working with Jenny Faulkner. You know Jenny, of course. And Jenny and I worked together for a number of years. And then I started hosting The Breakfast Show on ITV in the early 2000s. But had it not been for those people taking a chance on me and really sort of going, I think we can make something work here. Then, yeah, I'm not sure where I'll be now. But it wasn't about that side of it. It really wasn't. It was just that seems like a really fun, exciting, creative world.

39:43Spencer Matthews: I didn't know you were a dancer. Can you dance now? Not right now, but... I haven't danced for a very long time. But you were like, you're a proper dancer. Yeah, I got a degree in contemporary dance. Really? I loved it, yeah. I thought I'd apply to do drama with a little bit of dance. As it turns out, I'd apply to do dance with a little bit of drama. But there was just, yeah, it was fantastic three years. And in my head, the plan was always I was going to then go off and do a drama school for a year after that. When did you give up on the dream, essentially, to become an actor? When I got into telly.

40:17Spencer Matthews: I don't know if I have it either. I don't think I've given up on any dreams. I mean, genuinely, knowing you said we're not professional athletes, like I still think that I've got a chance to be a... Bond, mate. Bond, why not? the Ryder Cup, I was thinking. I still, you know, I still stand over putts and putt for the Ryder Cup. I still take penalties for the FA Cup. I still, you know, I... For a second, though, I actually thought that you were thinking I might become a professional golfer. I was like, is he all right? But I kind of like, I just, I love daydreaming about what I might still do. Yeah, it's great.

40:52Spencer Matthews: And I don't think, and as absurd as that might sound and as ridiculous, I don't think I've given up on any. I still, the dream I hold on to most, though, Spencer, is that my 19-year-old son will put his clothes into, actually into the washbasket, not near the washbasket. And I'm never going to give up on that dream. Can't you just lay down the law? Come on. I have tried. Trust me. Well, your kids are small, right? I've got all this to look forward to. So they're still having fun. You can still make it a fun game. Wait till they're 19. There ain't no fun going on there. it's just relentless it's like oh my days he's working at his old school boarding school's not an option?

41:33Spencer Matthews: no he's 19 now it's too late do you know what I mean? like yeah I'm fully to blame my mum and dad made some incredible sacrifices for me, my brother and my sister my mum worked three jobs my dad worked endlessly in order for us to go to a great school from the ages of 11 or 12 we all got music scholarships so we could do it what do you do in music? Jesus yeah that commitment you're like a never ending like talent stream I'm never starting so I might say that sorry what are you doing music well not not a lot anymore but I this piano piano and clarinet was the instruments I had at university at school what do you play the piano to oh grade 8 what so you can dance and play the piano and all kinds of shit you must be great at a birthday party no no no no I'm just there's always somebody else that will do it better that's so lucky yeah when you look at the way the landscape of television is changing you know it no longer really matters to catch things live unless you're particularly interested in a news story as a television presenter and someone who's very much at the forefront of tv you know are you worried at all i'm really excited i feel like um you know young people will say to me all the time oh how do i get into television i say you don't need to get into television everybody has in their hand a much more powerful camera than than I did when we started out trying to get into television and it's been an amazing vehicle and I still think there is a really important need for terrestrial television and linear television as it's known just in terms of bringing people together for those moments so we still want to watch the world cups we still want to watch big events we still want to be there you know when there's big news events people will still to come together and that's fantastic.

43:15Spencer Matthews: But the opportunity to do more exciting, creative things that might have a more niche audience, but a really engaged, powerful audience, I think is incredible. And I think sort of, you know, there's been an explosion in outlets, there's been an explosion in creatives, there's been explosion in influencers who are all able to control their own world. You know, the one thing I said to you earlier, the only thing I've ever really been able to control is my health and fitness. Because I make the decisions about when I train, what I eat, how often I do it. My work typically has been, if somebody would like me to come and host the summit, ITV or Shine, production company that made it, or phone up my agent, they'll go, can we meet Ben?

44:06Spencer Matthews: I'll go along and talk to them. And hopefully I'll get that job. The job goes well. And hopefully we get to do it again. But I'm not making those decisions. That control is not mine. I think the advent of podcasting, of the internet, of digital opportunity, sort of democratizes that from a presenter's perspective, from the person up front. And you're not necessarily all presenters anymore, right? They're just people who are passionate about what it is that they do. So you can work in the health and fitness space. You can work in the high performance space. here i mean that's quite a niche thing lots of people are really interested in but you have an amazing channel for high performance but that wouldn't have existed before the internet and look at the success of something like that and how many people are interested in it do you think that would have got commissioned on terrestrial television back in the day probably not so i think that from my perspective you know you can things are changing we've got to be agile we've got to be able to do that and you can rile against it by saying it's not like it used to be but i think it's really quite exciting it's really exciting for the youngsters coming through and i think it's the if we can if someone like me which is why i'm sort of working quite hard with joel and launching a skincare range that we're doing via digital media and all of that opportunity exploiting that that was never there before and to be able to do that um i think it's really exciting i mean daunting as well because you know we'd be used to being protected and produced and go and do this but at the same time you know you've got to back yourself and go and give it a go what you've got to lose yeah landscapes are always shifting as well aren't they so important to to not get stuck in the mud with with the plan who knows where it's going to be in 10 years time five years time even i recently had the pleasure of coming on your new podcast with joel domit yeah what is it what the businessmen indeed what inspired you to to start that and work with Joel?

46:01Spencer Matthews: Well, working with Joel, because he's a great mate, I think he's incredibly talented, I've watched him and his career sort of explode from being stand-up and his background of that world to then sort of going front and centre of light entertainment and more, and he's just a joy to be around, you know Joel, we have a lot in common as well, we both like health and fitness, and he's got a young family, and we wanted to work together, but the idea was, we were really interested at this stage in our lives he's just turning 40 and I was just turning 50 looking after health and wellness but from a sort of a skin care perspective there's a lot of skin care out there for women of course women take it very seriously there's some great skin care out there for men but I don't think the majority of men really take it that seriously and we've benefited enormously from working with amazing makeup artists and skin experts in the jobs that we do and can see the value that it's given us i'm looking at your perfect full of skin now because we discussed this on the on the podcast and you look after yourself as well but we what we wanted to do was if we thought if we could create a skincare brand um that would appeal to men that is high performance low effort and also smiles back at them as well so we can have some fun with it wouldn't that be an amazing challenge an extraordinary adventure and then the idea of charting that journey on the podcast, which is us from very grassroots all the way up to where we get to, hopefully we will launch this brand on the market at some point in 2026, was the sort of thing that we looked at and we thought, well, let's just do it.

47:42Spencer Matthews: Let's just go for it and see what happens. And it's been an absolute blast. Not least, I think, from our perspective, meeting well-known figures within the world of entertainment or the world of sport or the world of music and actually hearing about their journey and their businesses so we were able to talk to you about your business and the incredible journey you've been on with clean co and actually you are one of the lovely things about talking about you um is you're so unguarded at times i think sometimes you probably could guard things a little bit more but it's incredibly refreshing and and and sort of brilliantly gripping to hear you talk about what you've done and and the bravery and the courage that you've had to go out and do all that sort of stuff and and sort of getting a sense of the enthusiasm and the energy and the boundless sort of resilience that the two of us are going to need if we're going to try and make this work.

48:31Spencer Matthews: And it's been really tough. It's been fascinating to sort of take each step along the way. But the feedback we've had from people regarding the podcast and actually sharing other people's businesses, because loads of people out there, the advent of the way the digital media works now, people can launch businesses. They don't have to have premises. They don't have to, you know, do it from a shop. they can do it online TikTok shop is where most skincare it's a remarkable opportunity for people and understanding that and learning that and it's so different to my world and what either Joel and I had done so yes it was just about having the opportunity to do something different and go on a bit of an adventure and see what happens well thanks Matt and it was lovely to come on as a guest and I enjoyed that day a lot and I think we're delighted that you didn't end up starting a catering business podcast like your advisor may have suggested my careers advisor at 18 i wonder what they're doing now ah well hopefully not advising careers what's it like being able to get any tv show you want i don't think that's the case either sadly well yeah come on you're everywhere mate i can't turn on the tv without seeing you yeah well yeah there is there are a number of shows that i'm doing that are pretty ubiquitous and they are there fortunately they're quite successful which has got a lot more to do with the format than the host well I personally think the host is quite important yeah no?

50:05who do you think would replace you if you just were to peg it tomorrow?

50:08Spencer Matthews: well I mean any of those shows that I do have got all sorts of people that could go and do them you know are you pricking yourself always? no I'm just curious I don't know my dad and I were having a really funny conversation about just like when somebody does a job really well and you get really comfortable with them doing the job that well, you may not ask yourself the question, what happens if they leave or what happens if they fall ill? Like who is... Who steps in. Who steps in? It's not always clear, right? So I don't know. I just happened to have that conversation with him about something completely unrelated to what we're talking about.

50:48But, you know, I suppose in the world of TV, there probably is always someone.

50:52Spencer Matthews: I think to be fair though, Spencer, I think one of my,

50:57Spencer Matthews: I wouldn't take anything for granted. So I kind of, that's the thing that scares me the most. So I would never want to leave that to chance because I love the opportunity to do what I do. And I'm very grateful for that. You know, Tipping Point's been going since 2012 and we've done over 1500 episodes. You know, it's woven into the fabric of people's lives the opportunity to do that is incredible like you know I've done plenty of really great shows that never came back for a second series we've just filmed series 14 series 13 series 14 there's very few people I meet so many people that have done it or I've had friends that have done it or I've got family that have done it that is extraordinary I'm laughing at the Homer's Odyssey question thing yeah yeah yeah and there's a lot of amazing people that are willing to do it have you seen that?

51:46Spencer Matthews: oh it's so good what does the guy say? Can you remember? In his epic poetry, Homer describes Ambrosia's the drink of the gods and what is the food. And the guy says, I know he likes donuts, man. It's so good. And you go... Yeah. But there is... Anybody that's willing to come and do... Have you done a live quiz show? Have you done a quiz show? I've done some versions for charity, yeah. They're good. Have you done one? Yeah, so they're amazing, but they're pressured, right? They're a pressurized environment. I love anyone that's willing to do it, being able to share that stage with them, and that is very brave and courageous in my mind.

52:30Mate, I can't thank you enough for coming on. I've enjoyed it. It's very kind of you to take the time. I know how busy you are. And we'll catch you on the summit, mate. You'll love it. If you can figure out a way for me to come and compete

52:43Spencer Matthews: for this couple of hundred K, I'd be happy to. Well, you've just got to be willing to camp on the side of a mountain for 14 days. I'm up for it. But not get voted out by the fellow climbers. Ah, yeah. That's a shame. How do you think you'd cope? I mean, physically, you'd be all over it. And the challenges you'd love, because trust me, some of the challenges are jaw-droppingly epic. I'd love it.

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55:08Spencer Matthews: I'd love to do it. really fascinating things about this show is we split the money up between all 14 of them at the start. They've all got it in there. They've got a tangible amount in there, the 200 grand split between them in cash. So the money is really powerful all the way through. But as they go up, some of them will get voted out. Some of them will drop out because they can't keep going. Do some carry more money than others? Well, once people start going out, then the extra money gets put into a holdall. So someone ends up carrying that each day, if they remember. and they didn't remember the first day either.

55:41Spencer Matthews: So they left some of the money on the mountain. I mean, it's amazing, isn't it? No, that's great. It sounds awesome. You're always doing such interesting stuff. You know, I enjoyed meeting you. We came for a general with your production company and just had a nice chat one day. You're a very kind, awesome man and it's great to have you on the show. Thanks, Spencer. Enjoyed it.

56:09you