Do Super Shoes Really Make You Faster? | Extra Mile

0:04Hello and welcome to Untap the Extra Mile with me, Spencer Matthews. And me, Oli Patrick. God, doesn't that sound good? And today we have a moral dilemma of sorts that I would like to solve. And actually, I would love your help, both you, Ollie, and you, the listener, with this dilemma that I'm faced with. It's about a super shoe. And I want to talk to you about super shoes more generally, right? Because I have a lot of older friends who were good marathon runners but who never had the benefit of super shoes. And I'd love to understand the mechanics of a super shoe and how they work and stuff.

0:47But I have a particular conundrum that I would like to solve. As mentioned before, we had Alistair Brownlee on the show, who made me aware, and I wish he hadn't actually, of a shoe made by Adidas called the Adizero Prime X3. This shoe is banned for professional athletes in certain races. And therefore, it's a grey area as to whether or not ordinary ballot entry people can wear these shoes or not. It feels like a small point, but I just want to be honest. But you are a morally sound, like, good person, right? And very intelligent, if nothing else. and I I am I think I'm quite a good bloke but like I don't mind a rule bend I'll jump a queue and you know I'm devious at an airport like I'm terrible like if I arrive I'll you know people are neither here nor there at airports I think people stand in the wrong place a lot of the time it's there for it's there for the taking these passport queues and like ways of boarding it's there for the taking right just like you don't need to be people love a queue, they love a queue I don't like a queue, I like to go down the side of the queue if I can, I don't queue jump per se I just, I go a different avenue we're going off piste my morality could be brought into question if we're talking about travel, right?

2:21but I would like to talk about the moral correctness of wearing this shoe in my position, because I wish it felt like the other shoes, but it doesn't it feels a lot better, it made my Adi Zero Pro 4 feel like my grandmother Eunice's slippers, just like something you would never run it. If I were Kipchoge, it is illegal. If I was competing and had a chance of podiuming or earning any money from this race, it would be illegal. It is a great quandary. I'm very kind that you put me as a moral arbitrator in this scenario. I think, you know, these shoes are undoubtedly enabling better performance. So the shoes themselves are genius.

2:59And sort of this all came around around the time Chypchogy was trying to run the Sub 2, and they were creating ever more intelligent shoes, which tried to enhance the natural biology of the foot. So they added this carbon plate, which if you think of the bottom of your foot, held together by that plantar fascia, which sort of keeps the structure of fascia like connective tissue, and it holds your foot in that dome. Effectively, when your foot compresses, that sort of springs back a bit like a spring. It goes down and releases energy back up. And these shoes sort of mimicked part of that process by creating a carbon plate that would absorb your energy but return it in abundance.

3:33And they sort of mirror the role of the plantar fascia and then the role of the Achilles. So increasingly, you have this sort of high stack at the back and your Achilles tendon running down the back of your calf, connecting your calf muscle to your foot, if you like, is effectively a spring. But they're enhancing its spring-like capability. So this sort of popped up and it raises such an interesting debate because instantly, as soon as something proves performance, it normally gets banned. until it is democratized to a level where you say, we can't control it, and then it's even. It's an even kill.

4:04Everyone on the Tour de France has got a ridiculous bike. If you turned up with that bike years ago, you'd have been banned, and then everyone's got the same bike, it suddenly becomes normative. So what you're saying is I'm ahead of time. You are ahead of time. I think the mind plays a monster part in kind of how you perform generally. Are they faster than the Alpha Fly and the Pro 4?

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6:59I remember when I put my first pair of AlphaFlies on, I felt like, you know, Flash Gordon. You know, and so it's all kind of much of a muchness, I think. I think if Kipchoge chucked these things on, what is he going to gain? 10 seconds? Something like that? Marginal. You know, for me, well, I might gain a minute from it, you know, two if I'm lucky. Great. Obviously, I'd love that. But, you know, should we be caring about this stuff? When you reach elite levels, you've sort of optimized everything. My heart's as big as it can be. My recovery is as good as it can be. My sleep is as good as it can be.

7:36So you're looking for that margin. That margin will then automatically translate to performance. If the reason you're slower than you'd like to be isn't the fact you don't get enough spring out of your heel as it hits the ground, it isn't going to be transformative as per finding your true bottleneck of performance i think that's always an important point if it isn't the limiting factor it may not be the drive to exponential benefit your point whether it's placebo right and and placebo is literally the greatest drug in the world which is you know that it doesn't matter if it works or not if i believe it works if i believe it works you know we've got a cushion in our house which is if you believe you can or believe you can't, you're probably right.

8:14But how, okay, so this is where I'm so happy to have you here, because this is when I would normally say something like, oh my god, I read a book once that had like all these extraordinary examples of placebos that, you know, really worked, even though they were nothing. And of course, I don't know. I don't even remember the book, or the tests. But I know that I've read that, right? Yeah, it's real. But you will have some examples perhaps of placebos um working so so you know what was the book it was it was something to it may have even been in jaw yeah and they were testing people on like here is a scientifically proven you know pill that'll help your performance you know because it's full of salt and you know whatever like you know before we had readily accessible gels and electrolytes and stuff and actually it was just some bullshit pill with nothing in it yeah and they would notice like a 6 % or 7 % increase in speed over the course of that because they, in their opinion, have consumed something that should make them faster, therefore they're faster.

9:17And they go out thinking, great, well, I've had that pill, so I can probably push it harder. And actually, the pill was a placebo. For me, at my level of running, I think that all of these shoes are probably very similar, right? Like, you know, I'm not extracting the maximum out of that shoe. right so if you drive a ferrari at 30 miles an hour yeah like when you see someone who has a ferrari who clearly can't drive properly and you go that's a shame yeah right so that's how people will see me in these shoes you know all the gear you know not elite you know yeah drifting towards elite in the same ways you know you will probably use caffeine in somewhere like oh yeah you will use gels you will use music music is a performance aid caffeine's a performance aid gels are a performance age.

10:03Science-based training. I can't. You're running short to a performance age. The question is equality and everyone in that race has the opportunity to buy the trainers. You're not in the elite race, you're in the mainstream race. I get the morality question, but I think the question, Spencer, is at the end of it when you look in the mirror and you've run a 259, are you happy that you are a sub-three marathon runner having used these trainers? If it were faster to cartwheel, I'll do anything to go faster that's the answer but genuinely I'm interested in performance and results drug free performance results I would have a moral issue if I was this is interesting actually I would have a moral issue if I were doping so if you did EPO if I did something that genuinely enhanced my fitness from a non natural perspective, I'd have an issue with that because I would always know that, oh, well, the only way I could, I don't think those shoes are that.

11:08Do you see downside to wearing these things? When we separate the morality from the physiology, so to put the morality, which is down to whether you're comfortable, that it's another performance enhancing aid that gives you an advantage, but so does your training, so does your knowledge. Everything creates advantage. There is a question mark, which is unproven, that if you suddenly add this sort of high octane return of energy, what is the biomechanical load of that? So if you suddenly get me running in effectively a 50 mil step that changes the position of my pelvis, it changes the position of my knee, it changes the position of my head and we've got sort of anecdotal reports of increased load through shins and some people aren't equipped to handle that load.

11:48From the stack? From the stack. My shins, the first time I used them afterwards were screeching but the second time not so much there's the question what what what i'm always amazed so i go i've run the marathon a couple of times terribly but i remember going to the the um the event the night before and seeing people buying trainers and i'm like i hope you're not buying your trainers for tomorrow but that's fine now no i don't think it is fine no i think it is because because they're more like socks nowadays anyway like these things may as well not have laces that it's not about this but it's my knee my ankle my foot have adapted to the structure and shape of the shoe i've got so no but so what i would normally do sorry to interrupt you is is by the same shoe yeah exactly so i would i would i would train in alpha flies and then because i've done four five six hundred k in the alpha flies they're a bit battered so i buy brand new box fresh alpha flies for the race so that they're firm and responsive no this is not what's happening this is people who are clearly sort of saying oh this is a new brand and you give me 20 percent off of a pair yeah and you can see them you know halfway through the marathon going i'm cramping oh god i've been thinking about these shoes for like so long.

12:57Well you've trained it so the question with these new forms of shoes they change your biomechanics so a can I adapt to that and therefore I've got to progressively bring that into my training rather than dump myself into a high training volume and run the risk of injury and there's no study that shows you there's increased risk of injury and the studies on performance will include some placebo benefit but interestingly and the reason actually placebo is so important just to remember we do most trials are double blind which means if you and I are both trying a pair of shoes on, neither of us know whether we're wearing the better shoe or the worst shoe.

13:28So I can't get that placebo benefit. So if you really want to prove effectiveness of something, the people in the participating group can't know whether they're on it or not on it. And that's to rule out the benefit of placebo, which is so compelling that it basically always changes your physiology, always changes your outcome. So bringing people belief and that guy in your ear going, you can do it, is as vital a part of performance as the Muse playlist and the right pair of socks. They're so good. Just underrated and forgotten. Reapers. Well, I mean, we say forgotten. They're the 400th most listened to band in the world, I think.

14:04So, I mean, they're not forgotten. No, but maybe they don't get their flowers. Let's give them their flowers. Let's see if we can get them in. These lads are on tap. Let's get them in. I could not agree with that. I mean, it's just solid stuff. So good. So the question with the shoe is if you are, And what you would have realized is weight training has become a major part of endurance sport because most people don't get injured because they are too stiff or inflexible. It's because they cannot weather the load. And load management comes from strength.

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17:08so strength has suddenly become a big part of endurance which is which is a bedrock of your performance so are you strong enough and biomechanically able to withstand the returning force of these new shoes the only way to find out is to find out but you don't want to find out on race day that's the plan morally if you cross in 259 that is a valid sub three well done retire as a non-professional non-competing athlete you should find an edge wherever possible yeah right So if you can buy these things from a shop on Oxford Street, great. I think wear the best shoes you can, fastest shoes you can.

17:42Alpha flies and all that stuff were illegal, by the way, when they first came out. So who knows? They may see me cross the line, right? And they may say, make these things legal. It's unfair. Interestingly, they might make that decision. Do you remember the swimsuits in the Olympics? Then they got banned. The speed suits. They were called super suits. They were super suits, yeah. So that, again, was an example. Has everyone got fair advantage? But also then can you compare historically? And I think, I don't know why swimming reversed its decision, but it was just becoming more grotesque. If you let the cow out the bag, effectively there's no way to get it back in.

18:16The cow? The cow out the bag? I was saying the cat out the bag, but I think that's for drowning cats, which is morally reprehensible. Oh, right, okay. Well, yeah, no, we wouldn't condone that on this show anyway. But I've never heard of the cow out the bag. The cat, the cat. Did you say cat? I said cat out the bag. Oh, God, I thought you said cows. I was about to say, what kind of bag have you got? As I say that, I don't think that's coming from a place of great wisdom. Cats shouldn't be in bags. And what's the VAT box of a cat? Quite high, Adam. I would have thought quite high. Those things expense a fair amount of energy.

18:47It depends. You know, the kind of tabby cats that sit at home don't do much. I think, again, they'd be anaerobic. Capable of extraordinary bursts. Short, short. And again, not the great athlete. Capable of extraordinary bursts. Yeah, a stray cat, perhaps. What? Garfield's sort of the idea of that. Garfield? He doesn't do much. He doesn't. He'd be redundant. Hang on a second. I was making a point. Can I just finish? Yeah. Let me finish my point. Let me finish my point. So yeah, I think us mere mortal non-professional athletes should find an edge wherever we can, whether that be fueling perfectly, sleeping perfectly, not drinking alcohol, not smoking, going to bed early, rising early, doing shitloads of zone two, training properly getting a good plan being consistent all of this stuff I think is far more beneficial than the shoe right but for some reason I am putting a lot of pressure on the shoe and maybe I shouldn't I agree I love the shoe I'm going to wear it tomorrow morning I'm going to blast a quick session I'll tell you what if it's a nice easy one I'm just going to say listen I'm wearing this thing I couldn't care less and even if everyone says listen you shouldn't wear that shoe I'm going to say well guess what you know I'm wearing it that's that there's more a line in it I agree I think totally fair fair opinion and I think it's it's a great example shake the guilt and the only person you've got to hold yourself accountable to Spencer is yourself if you feel that that criteria gives you the status and there is a massive satisfaction I'm not in the sub 3 group I've got friends who are friends who tried friends who failed it's a beautiful accomplishment running a sub 3 marathon is an elite thing and if you feel that that has been done through all the efforts you've put in which it has been, I think wear the shoe.

20:29I think I might wear the shoe. I think. I think you are. I'll tell you what, I was going to leave here today and I was going to buy a box fresh set of Alpha Flies because I want to go back to the Alpha Fly for some reason. I don't know why, right? I tried the Pro 4. The Pro 4 was a harder race. It's a quicker time, but I actually think that the Alpha Fly was the better shoe maybe. But I think I'm just going to wear the Prime X3, mate. Do it. The big Larry one. Do it. 50 mil stack. double-plated beauty. We'll see you across the top. I think it's the Lamborghini, right? It's the aggressive, leery, you know, thing that makes people snarl.

21:09Interestingly, you remember, obviously, with the super suits in Sydney, the reason those swimsuits were banned was there was such a leap in performance. They called it technological doping, and I think there was a 20 % plus improvement in performance, and so world records were dropping like flies in Sydney. And that leap was too great for the sport to sort of absorb and accommodate. And I think that was a really good decision. But finding this sort of death by a thousand cuts as shoes chip away at the 4%, 5%, 6 % is an interesting challenge for governing bodies, for sure. What is 6 % of a three-hour marathon?

21:45That is... Well, let me do the minutes. So 180 minutes. 10 % would be 18 minutes so it's quite a lot so 1.8 minutes it's effectively it's where 12 minutes or so on other super shoes that can't be right it feels highly ambitious I mean Al Brownlee is a source of great wisdom now look at this so but I can't imagine the shoe is 6 % up Al Brownlee right so I was having this conversation with my brother James because my brother is from an era pre-super shoe loser. Yeah, he's running in. And his PB is 304, never quite cracked the sub three. And I said to him, well, you know, super shoes would have helped.

22:32Yeah. And, you know, if you were wearing AltaFly's or Pro 4's, you would have cracked sub three. And I had this conversation with Al because James said that he wasn't sure that they would be that beneficial. And I said, no, no, no, they absolutely are. Do you think it's all right for me to wear these in the Tokyo Marathon? I know, obviously, that I'm not an elite athlete and I know that I'm not a professional runner. So, obviously, I know that I am allowed. This is on 1.5. But do you think that people will take issue with me wearing these shoes? Like, will runners care if I go and blast out a 255 type thing?

23:05And do you reckon it will take away from the achievements or do you reckon no one will give a shit? Right, hey, I've just done a little bit of checking up on the World Athletic Rules and a bit of chat GPT-ing. My understanding is that it is technically illegal. even for amateurs because they're still under world athletics rules and the Japanese Tokyo Marathon is running the Japanese athletic federation rules which are dear to world athletics rules this is very boring I know um so it's technically illegal it never ever gets applied apparently basically unless you're going for an age group or a win and then it could get applied it could get checked uh and you could be annulled afterwards I can't find any public examples of actually happening in amateur events um but for you I would uh I'd probably stay clear of it just because you know if there's any pictures of you running in them uh people runners will pick up on it um but that's not to say uh you can't train in them i mean my i found the big advantage um was actually because it allowed me to do more have less muscle damage recover better run longer faster reps and be better prepared to run in racing and um that's what the top marathon guys and runners are saying anyway that actually um the big advantage of super shoes is is allowing them to train more and better um so where is this thing like what the I think I'm just going to wear them.

24:21I think it's sensible. Like, it's an edge. It's all an edge. You want the edge. You want the edge. You want the edge. What do you guys think? Should I wear the shoes? Would you be outraged if I wore the shoes? I suppose now if I don't wear the shoes, everyone's going to still think I've worn the shoes. So I may as well wear the shoes. Alright, we've said too much We've said too much Let's wear the shoes

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