Eddie Hearn: AJ Vs. Jake Paul, Tyson Fury, & Building Matchroom's Empire

0:00AJ is going to evaporate Jake Paul from the boxing world. I want to see him get chinned. And if we're going to get paid the fortune for the pleasure, sign me up. I'm Spencer Matthews and you're listening to Untapped, where incredible athletes and inspirational people show us how we can all untap the potential within us. And this week is absolutely no exception. Eddie Hearn went from inheriting the pressure of his father's boxing empire to steering the sport's future. He shares how relentless discipline, peak physical health and a clear long-term vision can help you thrive at the top of your game.

0:34Let's get Untappd with Eddie Hearn. Eddie Hearn, welcome to Untappd. Thank you. Thank you for having me. That's a great pleasure to have you on. In this podcast, we interview elite athletes from all over the world. But no one was available today. So you've got some geezer in his 40s who instead does a bit of business. No, not at all. No, it's an absolute pleasure. It's just my little joke. The podcast was born out of a desire to talk about human potential and kind of untapped potential. And you and your journey has always been a really interesting one. Let's chat a bit about boxing, please. Your opinion in that space is very valuable.

1:22Crossover boxing, influencer boxing, good or bad for the sport? I have my views. I'm wondering what you think of it now. And I'm not talking about the early days that kind of rubbed everyone up the wrong way. I'm talking about now and names like Jake Paul who unquestionably are doing interesting things in the sport. What is your view on him specifically and crossover boxing, influential people that were not professional boxers coming into boxing and fighting professionals How does it sit with you? I think there's a couple of different elements to it. There's the Jake Pauls of this world who have been boxing now for probably like three or four years or a bit longer, actually.

2:08Full-time, proper training camps, proper sparring, definitely improving. I mean, firstly, in boxing, there's no barriers to entry. So anybody, you, me, could have a crack. I mean, we could try and turn professional. Obviously, he's got the leg up because of the platform and the profile that he's built. but he's improved a lot. Is he a world-class fighter? I don't think so. But the guy probably is top 70, top 50 in the world in his weight class, which is actually a good achievement. Then there's kind of like the misfit stuff, which is just a whole different kind of world. I get it. I fully understand it.

2:49It's just not for me. I've grown up around boxing since I was eight years old. I love the sport more than anything. I love what it can do to shape a young person's life. I love what it can do in the community, but I'm just not into the YouTube stuff. You know, I think it doesn't all work. Obviously, when you get someone with a massive profile and a massive following like KSI or Logan Paul or Tommy Fury or these kind of people, yes, there's a market for it. But I just think we've got to be a little bit careful that that next generation don't view that as boxing. I think YouTube, I don't even want to call it boxing, but misfit stuff, I think there's a place for it.

3:34I think it could be entertaining, but it's not boxing. Boxing is very different. So I think what Jake Paul has done is, listen, at the moment, we're negotiating with Jake Paul fighting Anthony Joshua. It's completely mental. I don't put Jake Paul in the misfit category at all. I think it all started the same, by the way. It all started as this thing where I would have gladly fought Jake Paul a few years ago. Jake Paul is a boxer now, I think. Whether or not he lasts a single round with Anthony Joshua is a completely different conversation. I see that fight as well a complete mismatch obviously same and I might be promoting it you might be promoting it you say yeah I'm saying you said it's a mismatch I said I see it as exactly the same and I may even be the promoter it's so bizarre like it's like you know and I said to these guys Jake Paul and Nikita who's his manager I said guys you know this is very dangerous don't you I mean like you know and a lot of people are looking at this fight going yes AJ is going to evaporate Jake Paul from the boxing world and there's a very good chance that will happen but they like these big kind of dangerous moments but I said to them, this is a bit like you know when you used to tune in to watch David Blaine right?

5:00And it was like, is he going to get out of the box? He's got three minutes and there you go and this is like you tune in for the danger of Jake Paul stepping in the ring but I said to him, I said, this ain't magic mate, I said, there's no box here I said, this guy could take your head off your shoulders. Please do follow or subscribe to the show wherever you're listening. It only takes a moment, but it makes a huge difference to us. We have truly incredible guests every single week, and you wouldn't want to miss an episode. Hi, it's Mark Bittman from the podcast Food with Mark Bittman and the website The Bittman Project.

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7:48But this is this is something that I don't understand. I'm delighted, actually, that I get to talk to you directly about it. What happens? Because it's a little bit of a lose-lose for AJ, really. Because if AJ knocks him Spark out in 15 seconds, sure, you're going to have tons of people that are really happy to see Jake Paul fall off whatever pedestal he thinks he's on. I actually, by the way, nowadays wouldn't be in that camp. I quite appreciate him. I think the stuff he does is pretty, it's very, very good marketing. You know, his team and what he's built around him is very good business. And, you know, I don't actually dislike him as much as I used to.

8:32But that is something that people expect from AJ, right? So AJ knocks him out, could potentially even be dangerous, as you say. That's expected. AJ doesn't really win that, does he? And if AJ takes three rounds to beat him, that's even worse. Like, you know, he can't lose, can he? So it's kind of like, it's a bit, I mean, if AJ lost for whatever reason, that's the end of his life, surely. Like he can't come out in public. It just honestly comes down to the business at this stage. You know, AJ's been a two-time world heavyweight champion. You know, it could be his biggest or if not one of his biggest paydays for what will be a relatively, in my opinion, straightforward job.

9:17Yeah. And there's no point, you know, on this kind of stuff, there's no point dressing it up. and giving you this deep explanation of why this fight makes sense, he's going to get a load of money to knock Jake Paul's spark out. That's it, mate. Do you know what I mean? And you're better off saying to the fan, why are you doing this? For the money and for the giggles. That's really what it is. Do you know what I mean? Because I've had my ups and downs. I've had court cases. Me and Jake Paul, we've been like this for years. I want to see him get chinned. I do. and if we're going to get paid a fortune for the pleasure sign me up that's it that's it I'm kind of past the days of trying to spin it to you Eddie you don't owe me a spin I'm loving this this chat the one last thing I want to say about it is what if AJ knocks him out in a kind of catastrophic way and really hurts him.

10:18Because that is also a reality. And I'm quite surprised at Jake's, well, seeming lack of foresight with this. I mean, AJ flatlines Francis Ngannou, right? And he is, on all accounts, an incredibly dangerous human being. So I just, I mean, he's one of the last people I'd get in the ring with. Obviously, I'm not a boxer. but I can't quite understand the appeal for them. Obviously, it's a big fight and a massive stage and it's money, but say there's a really good chance he gets really badly hurt. Yeah, I mean, honestly, on their side, there is a delusion that Jake Paul thinks he can win the fight.

11:08Does he actually, though? A hundred percent. A hundred percent. because a lot of fighters think they can beat anybody, right? But he's got people around him. They go, yeah, AJ got knocked out in his last fight, right? He hasn't got confidence in him. Maybe his chin, yeah. Maybe his chin's not the same. You know, he's had a couple of injuries. You just start talking yourself into it. You know, I think Nikisa, the manager, is quite honest where he's kind of said, I don't really like it if I'm on it. I mean, look, he's going to make a fortune as well. But the problem with the fight is because Jake thinks he can win, he wouldn't go in there, cover up, you know, take one and just go, oh, no more, no more.

11:48He will actually come out and try and win and that will get him even more badly hurt than it would if he was just trying to protect himself. Do you know what I mean? So, whether this happens or not, we'll see. But I've told him, you know, you've got to be careful what you wish for because this is dangerous. I mean, boxing is dangerous. Whatever people say, I mean, people are watching that. I would be the first person to buy a ticket to that. Yeah, yeah. And it would be exciting. Although, you know, it's a kind of strange one, that one, I think. But yeah, I mean, you've explained it pretty well.

12:28What's negotiating with this team like? You mentioned that you're in current talks with them. Are they reasonable? Yeah, I mean, they obviously back him and they rate him. and I've had problems with them before. We've had court cases, defamation, all sorts. But at the moment, we're getting on all right. I mean, Jake is smart. He's not, and Nikita, who works with him, they're smart people. They're not idiots. They've built, like you said, a very successful business. They market and promote very well. They take real accountability and ownership of that audience that he's created. And they have disrupted the space.

13:07and I think they've done it pretty well, to be honest with you. Even to the point where, if you would have said this to me three years ago, two years ago, I wouldn't even, I would say, to be honest with you, I don't even want to do the fight. I think it's that much of a joke. But now, because you've kind of got yourself into a position where you're not bad and like I say, you are like top 70, top 50 in the world in the weight class below AJ. Like, if you really want to do it, we can do it. but I think a lot of people in boxing have kind of accepted him in now because of the work that he's put in.

13:43He is getting in there for real and doing it. And that is different. I respect him. I wouldn't hail him as an excellent boxer yet but I think he's improving at a pretty dramatic rate. He's a lot better than he was a couple of years ago type thing. It's really moving well. for him. AJ's too much to chew though in my humble opinion but look forward to seeing it all being well. What about Crawford Canelo? Is that the next big super fight of yours? Yeah, it's a good fight. I mean, both guys you know, they are coming to the back ends of their career but they're two kind of pound for pound legends of the sport.

14:30I mean, Crawford is an exceptional fighter and as is Canelo you know, You've got Crawford coming up two weight classes to fight Canelo, which is a very difficult thing to do. We saw that with Eubank and Ben recently, where you can just see the size difference in the ring. But I don't know, I've got a sneaky feeling for Crawford in that fight. Really? Yeah, I spend quite a bit of time with him, and I've promoted Canelo for seven of his fights, and they're both unbelievably confident individuals. but Crawford's boxing IQ is so high I believe he can see the way to beat him already and it's going to be a very very interesting fight it's just can you move up to fight that much heavier thicker set guy and take the power but it's two greats of our generation facing off against each other Dana White's promoting that fight is he not?

15:35Do you have any thoughts on him? Yeah, I've gotten well with Dane. I mean, obviously there's now this big Saudi Arabian movement in boxing and that fight is, well, I mean, promoted, paid for by Turkey Al-Sheikh and Riyadh Season. It's a Riyadh Season event and Dana is kind of like the guest promoter for that. We do some, Frank Warren does some. And I think Dana getting involved in boxing is good for the sport. I think it shows you where boxing's at, if I'm honest. You know, for a long way, I think it's a long time, I think it's been playing second fiddle to MMA. And now I think boxing's hotter than MMA, if I'm honest.

16:13I don't see the stars in MMA anymore. I don't see these massive match-ups, but it seems in boxing, you've got stadium fillers every other week, you know, big fights getting made consistently. And I think boxing's red hot. And, you know, why you'd want to get involved? He wouldn't want to get involved if it wasn't hot. And I look forward to duking it out with him. He's a fantastic promoter. The company is huge, obviously, TKO. It's a kind of collaboration of a boxing arm, WWE and UFC. So, yeah, it's going to be fun. Do you see or envisage any interesting deals being done with any of the large streamers like UFC have just landed with Paramount?

16:54Yeah, obviously, yeah, we're exclusive with The Zone. and we kind of made that move about five years ago, really. We were kind of one of the first who recognized streaming as the future of broadcast, and I still believe very strongly in that. So, you know, when we left Sky Sports three years ago now to join DAZN in the UK, it was a big move, and now DAZN are really the global home of boxing. So we've been proved right. A lot of the other promoters have joined us on the platform, and yeah, I just think the way that people digest content, as you know, is it's changing rapidly and you have to keep evolving with that as a rights holder.

17:34Do you ever suppose that we will get Tyson Fury, Anthony Joshua? I do. I think if Tyson fights again, we'll definitely get it and Tyson's a difficult guy to work out. You know, he's up and he's down, but he loves boxing and he's still at the top of his game you know he had two very good fights with Usyk very close fights not like he's declining and I think AJ Fury I think it would be a big shame if we didn't see that fight you know I think that's kind of like the final thing for both guys to do in an ideal world you know AJ flattens Jake Paul and then we go out and beat Tyson Fury and we can sail off into the sunset I felt I actually felt pain for Anthony Joshua on the second Usyk fight because you could literally see the eight or nine months of work that went into changing the style the weight, everything, the different trainer, it was such a good fight and it was just gripping and awesome and to lose it was I just I literally it was one of those moments like when where Lewis lost to Verstappen in those unusual circumstances you know in that incredible Grand Prix that was just very strange at the end you know it was just one of those moments in sport that you remember I felt really sorry for Anthony I've always loved Anthony Joshua I think you know we've spoken a number of times when we've met you know what it was though Spencer It was just like when you give everything and it still isn't enough.

19:24Do you know what I mean? I think that was what that was. It was like, why? It's like, why? Why? I've done everything. For eight months, like you said, I've done everything right. I've left no stone unturned. And it still wasn't enough to beat this man. And that was hard for him to take because the first fight he was off and the second fight he did well. but it wasn't good enough and unfortunately that's why Usyk is probably the greatest of our generation You think Usyk is the greatest fighter of our generation you said? I think so I think so You know undisputed cruiserweight world champion beat all the champions in their backyard moved up to heavyweight beat Tyson Fury twice beat AJ twice beat Dubois twice undisputed cruiserweight undisputed heavyweight unbeatable probably I'm particularly interested as well by the relationship with you and your father.

20:20Did you always think that you would do business with him and eventually come to take over Matchroom? Or did you have different aspirations when you were younger? Yeah, definitely didn't really want to work for him, if I'm honest, because growing up at school, you know, I went to a private school and then I didn't get kicked out, but kind of was asked to leave after my GCSEs. And I was like, I mean, it shows you how tough the school was. I was the tough kid at the school. I wasn't tough at all. Do you know what I mean? So, but it was like, I was from, my dad is from a council estate in Dagnum. I wasn't, you know, I was born when he started to make money.

21:06I mean, nowhere where he is now, but I had money when I was growing up and throughout my whole life probably most of my teenage years I was just Barry's boy you know I would go to every boxing show since the age of eight I would just hang around I would sell programs I would be in the changing rooms I was I would carry the fighter's belts out and everyone just knew me as Barry's boy and I think as a competitive kid which that was exactly how I was born and raised to win. You don't really want to be Barry's boy. You want to be a star yourself, really, and you want to kind of be better than your dad because that's what I was always trying to do.

21:46It didn't matter whether we were, you know, having a spa in the gym or we were playing cricket in the garden or table tennis. I had to beat him and he had to beat me. And I was just told winning is everything. Whatever it takes, winning is everything and it's the only thing that matters. Don't tell me you've lost. Don't tell me it was great because at least you took part. Bullshit. Win and win only. That was it. And so I kind of probably, again, like looking back on your childhood, I guess that was like fuel to outperform him. Because coming from a successful family, don't get me wrong, of course it's half a leg up, but it's quite difficult to outperform a successful, charismatic father.

22:33you know and that was always the drive for me you know my dad never did a tv deal and promoted in america for boxing i went over did it over there you know i did it in australia in mexico in the middle east and i guess we're still competing to this day so i think growing up you know the first thing that i wanted to be was a sportsman like most kids and you know once you realize you're quite not quite good enough for that working in sports was the next best thing And I did that after my A-levels from probably like 18 to 24. Worked in athlete management, represented golfers on the PGA Tour, European Tour, flying all around the world.

23:10And kind of got to 24 and felt like, I guess it was like an obligation, my duty to carry on what he had built. You're an incredibly recognisable face now. I think you're one of the most memed people I've certainly ever come across. but also you're very well respected in your field as I'm sure you know. How has your father reacted to your ascension as such and has it put any kind of strain on your relationship with him? No, I think we've always been very close. I think early on, and this is probably, I've been promoting boxing now for 16 years, maybe in the first year, two years. he left boxing because it's the worst business in the world.

24:00Total aggravation. You have to sleep with one eye open all the time. People are just constantly trying to fuck you. It doesn't matter who you are, where you are. And when he left boxing, he was quite happy to get away from that world. And early on, I would look to him for advice. And then after it started going pretty well, he kind of just... He's a big believer in giving responsibility to find out what you've got. And we do that through the business. And actually, in the documentary, you'll see that because it focuses on three key people within the business. Frank Smith, who's my right-hand man in boxing.

24:38Emily Fraser, who runs Multisport. Matt Porter, that runs the darts. They all started working for Matchroom at 16 and 17. And now that's 15 years on or more. they're all CEOs of departments and doing very well. And he's a big believer in allowing people to go and prove themselves. And that was no different with me, really. You have to get the respect of your boss, and that's what he was, my boss. But I proved myself, and now he does what he does with them, which is he's always there and he'll never go. But our relationship's good. I probably don't give him as much time as I should anymore because it's just flat out all the time and when you're knackered and you're on another time zone and you look down at the phone and it says Baza that's what I call my old man it's like oh god I know it shouldn't always be like that but it's like hi dad alright son how are we doing what's happening who's he fighting what's going it's like oh and you've got to kind of go through your day again with your dad but that's father and son relationships family business is it's very interesting yeah you can say that again i have uh it's not quite the same with with my dad but i have a very close personal relationship with my father as well less of a professional one but we do overlap sometimes and uh he's getting on a bit now i'm sure he won't mind me saying but that feeling of having your sons involved in what you've created for him can be difficult at times, I feel, because you come to the table with different views, you know, arguably some fresh views.

26:26And I don't know, he certainly doesn't always agree with them. So I can kind of understand what you're saying. We have a rule in every board meeting, you know, he will go, look, I think I'll bring something up. I think we should do this. And he'll go, I don't. I don't agree with that, you know, but we'll have a vote on it. And we have a vote. And of course, I win. And he goes, no, I take that on board, but fuck it, we're doing what I said anyway. So on we go, next point. He's incredibly stuck, but at the same point, things have changed. Life evolves. Things aren't always the same. But one thing you can never take for granted is the experience and the knowledge that he has.

27:06And that will be the same with your dad. I mean, they're very smart people. You can't be stubborn enough just to, you know, you've got to fight your corner for what you believe in. But you must also understand, I mean, my dad is the best person in the world. When you've got a problem, you go and see, you know, you have a chat with him. Within 20 or 30 seconds, it doesn't really feel like a problem anymore. The only thing that my dad has failed to ever come to terms with or up to date with is probably mental health, you know, or how you're feeling. And because he just thinks he's a complete load of bollocks.

27:45if I'm honest, and that's quite difficult because the world has changed. And, you know, guys in, even guys in my age bracket, your age bracket, we, you know, you're laughing because you probably had the same conversation, you know, and it's like, I remember saying to my dad, you know, things were getting on top with work and, you know, I'm like, he's like, he'd come in every now and again and he knows when I'm under it, you know, because of social media and all of a sudden you'll see, I don't know, Connor Benz failed a drugs test and like, it's a massive, you know, controversy, and I'm getting slated left, right, and center, and he sees it, you know, he knows it's out there, and he'll sort of come in the office, and he'll go, you all right, boy?

28:23And I'll go, tell you what, Dad, I'll be honest with you, I'm under it at the minute, you know, I'm under it. He's like, oh, well, you know, I said, you know, go ask yourself, you know, you know, it's almost that search for happiness. Oh, shut up, shut up, search for happiness. I'm like, no, and then he just goes, look, do you know what I do? Do you know what I do? I look at myself in the mirror, I clap my hands, and I go, I'm happy. And I go, oh, brilliant, thanks for that, that's fantastic. But that's the old school, and that's, I guess there is definitely a method to that madness, I must say.

28:59I do think it's a lot deeper than that. But I watched something with Tommy Fury the other day. I don't know if you saw it, and it was with John Fury as well, and Tommy Fury was saying he's so hard on social media, it's tough. And John Fury, I don't really get on with sometimes. He goes, it's not tough though, is it? And he's like, well, it's dad. He goes, no, it's not. It's not tough, is it? Look, you've got a lovely house, you've got a lovely car. What's the matter with you? And that old school world, that's what my dad was. My dad is money mad. Money mad. Came from nothing, always wanted to be absolutely caked.

29:37and that's all he cared about. So he thinks money solves everything, right? And listen, I do agree it can solve a lot of things, but I do also, you know, as you get older, you start to realize it definitely isn't just about the money. But he, till this day, is completely convinced, oh, yes, it is. It's about the money and it's only about the money. And as long as you've got money, you should be happy, which is the most bizarre fatherhood, you know, I mean, I've got two daughters. I would never say to them, girls, as long as you've got money, you'll be happy. All right, so get on with it. I mean, but that's my dad and that's old school East London.

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32:25I find that old school attitude, to be honest, pretty refreshing still. You know, I'm quite lucky with my own kind of mental health, I suppose, went through the odd thing, as you know, when I was younger. But it's strange, isn't it, when you have kids? Times definitely have changed. You know, my dad was, you know, not to keep comparing with you, but my dad was pretty no-nonsense. It is quite refreshing and I wouldn't change much about the way I was brought up. You know, I think it's nice to have that kind of strength element, I suppose, without demonizing vulnerability too much. How important is it for you as somebody that runs a big major business to be health conscious and make sure that you are treating your mind and body with the respect it deserves?

33:18I think there's so many sort of facets to it. I mean, firstly, the two are linked in a way. Like for me, if I've got energy, if I'm in shape, you know, if I've got the engine and the battery to work harder than anyone else, which is kind of something that I've always prided myself on within the industry. I mean, I think even though I won't be everyone's cup of tea in the industry, I think, and it's quite important to me when all is said and done that everyone would go, he works like a dog. And that's something, again, that sound, that is his voice from my dad. Work like a dog every day. A dog.

34:00Work like your skin every single day. And that's like, you know, and again, I sometimes say these things and normal people go, you know, it's a bit strange, but that's just what I've always been told and taught. So if you want to work like a dog, you've got to be in shape to do it. And anything that can give you an edge in sport, in business, in life, you should try and embrace. And I was getting to a stage where I wasn't like a massive boozer, but I would go out after every show. And then when we started doing a show every week, it was like, you know, go out till four o 'clock in the morning after the show, wake up Sunday, feeling like shit, no time really for the kids, like eating rubbish, not training.

34:42And that would go into like Monday and Tuesday. and then before I know it, I'm like at another show and then we go again. So I've really enjoyed, like I've battled with my weight, but I've always had a, I would say, fairly healthy battle with just trying to stay. You know, I always used to joke with my mates, like trying to stay fat, right? That was like when I was growing up, I was like, right, you know, I was like training all the time. And then about three years ago, Men's Health came on and they went, look, would you like to do a column? So I started doing a column. It went quite well, and they said, do you want to do a cover shoot?

35:17And I'm like, it was always like a joke, again, with my mates, that, you know, be on the front of men's health, you know. It was just like, so I did that. And, you know, I got in decent shape, not shaped like you, Spinner. You know what I mean? I mean, it's not, I'm on the verge of unfollowing you. It's that bad, you know. But I was proud of myself because I'm proud of myself for the work that I put in in trying to do that because my travel schedule is crazy. And to train like I train, you know, it's pretty good. And I've got to be honest, like a lot of it, when I did the men's health thing, they said to me, what's the main drive in you trying to get into shape?

35:58And I was just like, I'd like to pride myself on being quite honest. I went, honestly, I just want to look in the mirror and go, you look good. And I want to put my suit on and go, I feel good. and call that what you want, self-centered, I don't know what it is, but that's just the honest truth. Yes, it will make me work harder. Yes, I'll feel better. I'll have more time for people, but the reality is I wanted to look in the mirror and say, you look great. And I think for someone in their mid-40s or going into their 50s, the biggest, pardon the pun that kids use, the biggest flex is to be in shape, I think, I mean, I think for guys in their 40s, 50s, and if you look now at high performers in the business space, they're all doing the same thing.

36:46I don't really know successful people, that kind of age group, who are running big businesses that aren't in the gym nonstop, that aren't going through the recovery process, ice baths, pipe of barrack chambers, whatever it is, because they're all trying to get an edge to do more, to work harder. And that's what successful people do. They push themselves for everything that they do. So for me, there was definitely an element of that. But also, you know, my granddad died at a heart attack of 45. My great granddad died at a heart attack of 44. My dad's had three heart attacks. You know, I'm walking around six foot five, whatever I was, 18 and a half stone.

37:30You know, in a high stress job, I'm thinking 100%, this is coming at me fast. So you've just got to give yourself the best opportunity. And probably one of the best things I do. Without training now, without the gym, I don't know. It's a scary thought. I have to train. I have to try and train every day. And it's just a personal challenge. Do you pay attention specifically to your cardiovascular health in light of what your family has suffered? Always, yeah. Always. My dad ran about eight or nine marathons. So again, and this is something that I think it's important as a parent as well. I want my kids to see me living healthy.

38:10I want them to see me in the gym. And sometimes if they're in the gym with me, I'll push myself extra hard on the running machine for them to see. Jesus Christ, look at this stuff. And that's what it's about. It's about pushing yourself. So in the early days, I ran a marathon. I just do a lot of running. but then I lost quite a bit of weight and I never lifted weights, never and the last three years has been a big focus on that and I'm enjoying it, I'm enjoying getting stronger being a little bit bigger in size and I think as you get older obviously the research will tell us that strength training will be a big asset to you as you grow older so yeah definitely I have extreme heart checks every year and unfortunately now I've just folded to the statins because my cholesterol is a little bit high didn't really want to do it but getting old so it's all a game I view it as all a game everything's a game business is a game sports a game your health is a game and it's a very serious game but that's for me I've got the whoop on and it's just a game.

39:28It's just, I'm accountable for everything. I know. You know, people say, oh, do you like the whoop? You know, oh, it's a bit, you know, it's a bit, you know, can sometimes drive you mad. No, I need it. I need to say, right, quick, go to bed. Right, oh, your strain's only this. Let's go. Like, it's just, that's how I live. I used to be less enthused by the whoop when I used to drink lots of alcohol on the counter. Oh, but that's another thing. To clear me dead every day. One of the reasons. Yeah, but that shows you. The reality is, everyone took the piss out of me when I stopped drinking. All my mates, right?

40:03And we'd go out and they'd be like, can I have sparkling water and lime? Sparkling water and lime? What is that? Now half of them are doing it. You know, they're all wearing whoops. They have three drinks. They wake up and they're on 8%. It just, the reality is, you can't drink and perform at your best. Yeah. No, no, it's a well-trodden path for me. There's a, you know, it couldn't be more of a direct correlation between high performance and underperforming. In my particular case, you know, it's been really flipped on its head. Like, I feel that alcohol is available to me now anytime I want. But I genuinely, I've developed such an interest in performance and operating well that it just simply...

40:53Like the idea of it doesn't really make sense to me. I will drink again, you know, whatever. But it's just, it's gone from being, I used to take long periods of abstinence as almost a bit of a punishment. I'd say like, I've had this massive holiday, so I'm not going to drink for, you know, the next six weeks. And it would almost feel like a punishment, even though it was healthy. Whereas now it's kind of the other way around. It feels like the punishment to me feels like having a few drinks, but I'll do it every so often type thing, even though I very rarely see the point in it. Yeah. But I look at when you posted your photos, you know, the same way you must look at that individual, right?

41:32I also, you know, back in, you know, probably like late 20s, early 30s, when I was going, I will look at that person at the press conference, you know, and the face is bloated. And, you know, and I just think, oh my God, look at the state of you. And I was still training. And it wasn't like I was like out seven nights a week, but I just, I don't really recognize that person, if I'm honest. Are you talking about the picture of me in the street with my shirt off where it looks like I've eaten my co-star? Sometimes you post them, you know, and it's like, this is, and then now you are the extreme of the extremes.

42:09Yeah. Like you've got abs on your abs. Oh, well. Do you know what I mean? Thank you. I don't know. You've taken it to another level. I'm like, you know, but you must look at that individual and just, and it's all part of the journey. I mean, don't get me wrong. I don't hate that person. I just can't, I just, you know, it's just a weird thing to look at that person for me. And I guess you must have it as well. It's interesting though. Yeah, I do find it like if I were to walk past my former self in the street, I probably wouldn't recognize myself in that person. Like we don't even look similar type thing.

42:43We're just different people. but it's strange because it changes everything and it is, broadly speaking, well certainly for your health it's incredibly positive but it's funny because you replace things in your time differently as well so times when you would just be relaxing and socializing and being around for people it's different for me now Like I feel like a heightened version of myself, but it comes at a bit of a price. You know, you lose friends and you don't, you're not around people as often and you're just working more and working harder. And I don't know if you had that experience where you're kind of chasing everything that you always felt you wanted, but do you ever feel that it comes at a cost?

43:35Do you know what? I think that as you get older, you become probably a little bit more selfish. I think I'm very selfish. And my dad is unbelievably selfish. I mean, he's one of the most selfish men I've ever met. He, like, don't get me wrong. He loves me. He cares about the family. But he's so selfish. Like, I'm selfish. He's on another level, right? And, but I feel like there has to, like, growing up, he was away a lot, right? And I am now. And it's very similar looking at my kids and his kids, or me and my sister. And I just accepted that that's what he did. I mean, he was grafting. He was out there working to try and create a great life.

44:18But he was also selfish, probably. But you have to be selfish because you've got to really make a decision. What is your decision? Is your decision you want to chase your own dreams, your own goals? you want to achieve at the highest level in your own name, or do you just want to be an amazing dad? You can't do both. It's impossible. And you can be amazing when you're there, but you cannot be. You can't cover all of those bases. If you want to be your very best, you have to be selfish. And that is the fact of life. And I don't like it when people try and sugarcoat it or go around, you know, and you've got to be, you've got to have that, you know, you're going to miss birthdays.

45:06You're not going to be, you know, that normal dad because you're selfish, you're driven and you're out to perform for yourself, achieve for yourself. Now, of course, that can't and shouldn't come at the cost of never being around. But that and you hope one day that your kids actually acknowledge that. But I was the same with my dad. I don't resent that he wasn't around a lot when I was young. I knew how important it was to him. Forget the creating great opportunities for the kids, because that's definitely part of it. But it was important to him. He was chasing the wind. He was chasing his life.

45:45You've got to live your life as well. Family man, great dad, all that kind of stuff, really important. You get one shot at this, and you've got to make sure that you can look yourself in the mirror and say, I did it my way. And that is selfish. But that's the same with the gym or those kind of things. Yeah, of course, you're going to become unsociable. You're going to do things that – I don't really have a lot of mates, if I'm honest. I still talk to all my mates from school. We're all on WhatsApp. Maybe every couple of months we'll have a meet-up. But I'm too busy, mate. I'm just zoned in and focused.

46:22If I'm not working, I want to be in the gym. yeah you know and i'm and if i'm not doing that obviously you want to be around the kids you want to get the kids involved but that's the reality i'm working on me it's interesting and and it's it's it's definitely worth talking about you know it's it's kind of it can feel i suppose like a sacrifice to me it doesn't personally i think there are different times in your life when you know you go through different phases this is a growth phase in my life i want to build things that interest me and excite me. I want to help people. I want to raise money.

46:58I want to try to, you know, do good and make positive change. And that requires, you know, pretty much all of your attention. I feel like I'm around for my kids and I'm around for my wife. But why are you doing that? Because you want to do that, right? It makes you feel fulfilled. It makes you feel happy. It makes you feel sad. might make you be a good role model for them as well. But it still comes down to that looking out there, traveling for that, filming, you're up there doing, I don't know, marathon after. That's taking time away from what could be, I don't know. But the reality is you're doing it mostly for yourself.

47:46And there's nothing wrong with that. I agree with you. I was with my wife last night and she said, when was the last time? By the way, this isn't some kind of pity party. I'm just, I feel like you might kind of understand it a bit. I was with my wife last night and she said, like, when was the last time that you went for dinner with your mates? Or when was the last time you spent time with your mates? And I was like, I just, at this point in time, I don't really value that. It's not that I don't value the friendship. I love my friends. I have very few friends, like very few friends, but like, I kind of want it that way.

48:22I don't know. I just, sorry. The only reason I'm bringing this up is because it kind of feels as though you might be similar to me in that regard. Like I'm focused and interested in building things. If I don't do it, nobody's going to do it for me. You know, it's just, it's kind of, my day is full of work and bits and bobs and chastings to interesting people, you know, and, and, building Clean Co and stuff, but it's, I don't know. I feel at the moment a little bit of a oh wow, you know, am I wrong to be doing that? Yeah, I don't think so. I think you're 100 % right and I think the older I get, I mean, I have been, I think your kids are a lot younger than mine, but I've been through the nappies and the nursery.

49:04I was around, I was actually quite active back then, but like you say, you get to the growth phase. I kind of feel like I'm in my flow now of saying, all right, listen, I've brought you up. You're 16, 30. Don't get me wrong. I'm still here, but this is a bit of me time now, and I'm working on myself to be where I want to be. Yes, of course, that's my obligation to the business. That's having fun at these events and creating big moments for our fighters and our athletes, but this is also me trying to feel good and look good because I ain't got long you know it won't be long 50, 60 before you know it it's game over so that my advice is don't feel like you're being selfish because all you're doing is actually doing it for you and there's nothing wrong with that you've got to be a good person you've got to be there for your family of course but you know I think you've really got to focus on yourself as well and you've got, especially when you get to that age, because like I said, father time is ticking.

50:12You have a documentary coming out about you and Matchroom for Netflix. Would you mind telling us a bit about it? Yeah, so I watch with great interest Drive to Survive. And, you know, we are, I mean, firstly, we're kind of, we're showmen, you know, we put on the show. And we also tell the story. You know, a narrative is very important in all the sports that we promote. You know, you have to tell the customer, you have to tell the fan the story of what's happening. And I really felt that Drive to Survive was groundbreaking because it completely, you know, changed for me the face of Formula One, where it told really the untold story of what happens in the sport to the casual, you know, to people like me.

51:02I don't watch Formula One, never been to Formula One, not really interested in Formula One, couldn't tell you anything about any of the drivers. And then all of a sudden you're watching this behind-the-scenes soap opera unfold. And I thought it was genius. So I reached out to the people at Box2Box who made the documentary. This was like probably two or three years ago. And I said, if you thought that was good, you should do one in boxing because you've never seen the shit that goes down in that sport, right? And they're like, you know, we started talking and this was just off the back of COVID.

51:38And then they came to see me and they just started to spend a few days within matchroom. You know, and to those who obviously know me through the boxing, boxing is a big part, but it's not the biggest part of the company. We own PDC Darts, we own World Snooker, we do Nineball Pool, we do basketball, gymnastics table tennis, fishing all kinds of different sports that we love and they were just like this is the weirdest wackiest company, your father and son out of Essex started in a broom cupboard in Romford 40 odd years ago and now you're the biggest global promotional company in the sport we don't just want to do boxing, we want to tell the story of Matrim and two years later of filming we're editing We're ready for it to air.

52:27Matchroom, The Greatest Showman. It's what it's called. And it's a great global showcase for our business, really. But it tells the story of, you know, I guess sometimes I think a normal family. But as you get older, I mean, you know, Spence, like you do kind of find yourself a little bit and start looking at your childhood. And then you sort of start to realize, well, it wasn't really normal at all. But it was my life. And this is just an all-access look at the business and all the sport. And more importantly, the big players within those sports and what happens. So, you know, you've got Ben Eubank fight.

53:05You've got AJ getting knocked out against Dubois. You've got Katie Taylor against Serrano. And I'm mic'd up the whole time. I mean, I'm having rows backstage with people. I've got security dragging me off people. I mean, it's just like, it's nonstop. And it was very intrusive, but it had to be that way to deliver what we've delivered, which I think is a brilliant business, sports, and kind of like family business docs, like succession meets drive to survive. You know, I think people are going to love it. I think it sounds fantastic. All right, Eddie, I'll leave you to it because I can see that, you know, you've been very kind with your time.

53:48There's just one last question that I'd love to ask you just before we say goodbye. And that's for our listeners. From you, do you have any advice for people listening now? Any actionable tips that people can take away to live a kind of fuller, better life to untap their potential? Yeah, I think the first thing is don't put too much pressure on yourself. I think especially for the younger listener. I get asked a lot by people kind of in their early 20s, have you got any advice? And I feel like life's about evolving and the person that you are changes as time goes on. So what I might have deemed as successful, certainly in my 20s, definitely in my 30s, is very different to what I deem as successful now.

54:44So the number one thing is you have to find your purpose and passion and something that drives you and gives you that want to push yourself and to work really hard. And like we've just talked in our conversation, what you're doing at the moment is what gives you your why, if you like, and makes you get out of bed and push yourself. and you need that because if you don't do that, you're cheating the game. It's a bit like a fighter. When all of a sudden, they don't chase the championships anymore, they don't love the gym sessions, they're just doing it for the money, that's fine, but the game's up.

55:25So you have to have that drive. I think that consistency will always be my number one word. I don't think you can beat consistency. I think if you work as hard as you can and you try to make the right decisions and you are consistent, I do not see a world where you do not achieve. And it might take time, but there is no way that over time with that consistency, it won't pay off. And that for me is the very, very simple basic rule. Work as hard as you can and try and make the right decisions and do it every single day. and it will pay off. But combine that with a passion for something and I think you have the unbeatable equation.

56:15Eddie Hearn, we really look forward to your Netflix documentary and thank you so much for taking the time to join me today and hope to see you soon and good luck. Thanks, Spence. Cheers, everybody. Cheers, mate. Thanks so much for listening. We hope you enjoyed that episode. And if you want to hear more incredible conversations with extraordinary people to help unlock the potential within all of us, then please subscribe, follow, and review the show wherever you're listening or watching. Thanks again, and we'll catch you next week right here on Untappd.

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