Hardest Geezer’s CRAZIEST Africa Stories

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1:55from the second I saw it. Thanks, man. I'm proud to have you as a guest. Oh, no, that's nice. Thanks. That's a really nice intro, isn't it? Thank you, mate. I'd love to talk to you about your experience of Africa, maybe, to begin with. Yeah, yeah. Where did the idea come about? Where it came from initially is, obviously, I ran from Asia to London, Istanbul to London in 2019. And I did that because, you know, I was kind of sick of the monotony of my young years, wake up, work, sleep, eat, same thing, repeat, repeat, go out the weekend, job done. So I decided to quit everything, go traveling with not very much money.

2:33But I just started buying one-way tickets, staying in the cheapest hostels I could find all over the world. And I met this Italian guy who'd been cycling around the world for six years, just with a few little bits on his bike. And to me, it was the most inspirational thing I've ever heard. it really just showed me that all of those kind of expectations and frameworks I think life has to be in certain when you're a certain way and you have to achieve this and then you move on to that and blah blah blah I was like hold on he's just completely got the rule book and just gone that rip it rip it all the way up and it was quite freeing really to speak to him and obviously I've been I've been training running quite a lot at the time you know I'd got into marathons and things.

3:14So that kind of, I had this kind of spark and I'm going to run home from Asia. So, you know, I did that. I had a couple of grand that I got from a clinical trial where they, when I went to Australia, you walk into this hospital building and they pump you full of this new untested drug that they've got. Give you a couple of grand for the pleasure. Any good? It was all right. I went to a traveler at the time as well, right? Like free accommodation, free food, two weeks, and they're going to pay me. I was like, sweet as. So, you know, I took that money and then I bought a hammock and a camelback and a pair of running shoes and a flute and a one-way ticket to Istanbul and then I just ran home from there.

3:50So, you know, that was kind of the start of it. And it was like super raw, obviously. There was no team. There was no support. Were you on your own? Yeah, totally on my own. I was just sleeping in trees every night, just tying my hammock up and I'd just sleep there. Then I'd wake up running another marathon. And for me, that was kind of like, you know, it wasn't really documented very well because I didn't really know about social media at the time. I wasn't really a social media person. I just thought I'd take a few photos along the way and just upload them to the ground for the boys back home.

4:17So yeah, I'd just take a photo every day and be like, yes, lads, I'm in Serbia tonight or something, you know, whatever is going on. So yeah, I finished that. And then I thought there's something in this. I'm like, that was a massive journey for me. It was like, that was my kind of like breakthrough sort of moment. Like when you were speaking about your marathon in the desert. So that was my kind of like, well, I can do anything here. You know, like if I really, to me, what that showed me was I'm a ferocious little bastard, right? And if I set my sight on something and go, that is it. That is all I'm after is that.

4:52And I just chewed down, then, you know, I can make anything happen. Or I could certainly make a lot more than I thought I was capable of happen. So after I finished the Asia London run, I started thinking about new continents and blah, blah, blah. and I was looking at Africa and I was like, doable. But, you know, that took about three years really to get that on the go because I needed, you know, for Africa, I needed more resources. I needed a team. It wasn't physically possible without certain things in place. So, you know, then I went on a journey of like, okay, well, how does business work and how do we get sponsors?

5:29What do sponsors want from me? Why would they sponsor something like this? Et cetera, et cetera. trying to kind of bring a team on, sell them a vision. Right, we're going to do this. I'm going to be first person to run Africa. We're going to film it. We're going to put it on YouTube. We're going to do it. Blah, blah, blah. We're going to make a documentary. All this stuff. So, you know, that was about a three-year process in itself just to get to the start line. And then, you know, I always said to everyone that was involved, I was like, as soon as, you know, the difficult part for me is getting to the start line.

5:54Once I'm on the start line, it's game over. We, you know, we're making it happen. And you did more than a marathon on many of the days. Yeah. I think on average it was about 50k a day. For a year? For a year. Well, 352 days, yeah. Long. But it was that ferociousness in me that everything aligned perfectly. You know, when there's times in your life where everything just lines up and you're like, hell for leather, this is getting it. Every day for a year. And it's like, wow, it really took it out of me big time. But I knew that I wanted to leave everything out there and just leave that content. I gave it absolutely everything I had, more than I ever thought I could have.

6:34And I just left it all there. Had you mapped out the time it was going to take you? Or did you kind of figure that out as you were going? Well, originally, I thought about eight months. So originally, I was kind of planning on going straight through the middle. And then, you know, as is Africa, there's coups and borders problems and all types of different problems going on. So we ended up kind of skirting around the West Coast, which added a bunch of mileage on. I did think that the line you chose was not direct. Definitely not direct, yeah. And believe me, I would have taken a direct route if I could have.

7:05But going through that, it was Niger. Niger was a bit of an issue. Even throughout the project, I would often sit down with the team and go, I think we should go through Niger. Because it would cut off about 2 ,000, 3 ,000k. Yeah, unfortunately, it wasn't possible. There was a lot of problems going on. I've had the pleasure of chatting to you before about this and you mentioned that you didn't have any physio the whole time you're in Africa I struggle to understand I'm not suggesting that that's not true I struggle to understand how your body was able to cope with the strain of moving even if you weren't running hard which I think you were clearly moving well but you know how did you manage the pain oh the pain was tough yeah um probably one of the most difficult parts and it's like i don't know what injuries you kind of had but i remember there was a few like there was a back problem i had and um you know it started all of the nerves in my legs and my lower back were like pinging off every now and again like just kind of uncoordinated and i found that really tricky.

8:19There's a lot of stuff though that's kind of surface level pain, if you know what I mean, like things like blisters and muscle fatigue. And it's only when things like snap or nerves get involved that it's like, that's a big problem. Did you have to fix anything along the way? There was, you know, there was always certain things. I remember there was a, I had my right foot swelled up pretty bad. Republic of Congo, I think that was. But you can manage, you know, for me, it's all about just managing the situation. So over the course of 16 ,000K, I was like, look, it's probably unrealistic to think I'm going to go out there and just bash five, six minute Ks like every day, nonstop 50K a day.

9:02But when I picked up an injury, it was more just like, right, let's manage that situation until it's kind of got over that hill and then we can go back. So it's just like, you know, if I picked up my back issue, for example, then I took some time to walk and ease that intensity. And then, you know, lo and behold, these things come back around. It's time, patience. The body is a remarkable thing. It really is incredible, mate. Yeah. Did you find that your body transformed, adapted to, you know, what you were putting it through when you told yourself that it's a reality that this is day in, day out going to be the case?

9:40and so you eliminate any kind of doubts that this is going to stop. Yeah. You know, did you find, how quickly did you find that your body responded to that with change? A hundred percent. Like, you know, I always found, I don't know if you ever get this, but I might have like, I might wake up and think, oh, my knee or something, my knee is feeling whack today. I don't know, like I'm standing like going, I can't even, you know, I can't even put any pressure on it. And the amount of times something like that's happened and then I've gone, well, you know, in my head anyway, like the day's running is happening, right?

10:13So it's less of a, is it happening or isn't it happening? It's just how we're going to do it. And then I'll start and, you know, an hour, it might take an hour, but an hour or so in, it starts easing up and we can just keep, you know, we just keep going and sort of push, push, push, push, push. It's amazing even over the course of, you know, what most people would call a long run, call it 30K or something like that, like, you know, you go out for a long run. the different stages that you might feel in that run. So like I did a 30K the other day. First like eight or nine horrendous, as you're saying, just tired, low recovery, over-trained, glycogen levels depleted, not had breakfast, whatever excuse you might come up with, just don't feel great, heavy, bit of pain in the knees.

11:01And then you kind of like, you hear a song that you love or whatever, or like your mind drifts a bit and all of a sudden you're 20k in and you're breezing and you know just cruising along and all the pain that might have made you stop is um banked and gone and it's just you know and your and your body kind of adapts and changes were you fueling a lot you know that's interesting obviously with the fueling um you know especially at the start in africa it was pretty tricky um we'd be eating food off the side of the road i was getting food poisoning all the time On day 24, 25, I was pissing blood.

11:37It was pretty bad. I was losing so much weight. And, you know, there's a certain amount of you're just always going to be taking that risk when in a different continent eating random different food. But obviously, having Huel come on as my sponsor was big because then I had at least a staple of my diet. At least half of it was good, clean, nutritionally complete food with everything I needed in it. Did you feel it made a big physical difference? Well, in the weight loss, basically, like the first kind of two months, you can see I've just drifted. And then after I got the fuel in, it started, you know, I was still losing weight.

12:17I'm still running 50K a day in the desert and whatnot. But the decline was like less rapid. Yeah, I mean, I'm not one of these that's necessarily got all my measurements of going, like, I need this and I need that. I'm more like, I'm a freedom type of guy. I just like to go out and just, you know, I'm running and that's just how I am. Tell me if there was a time when you genuinely thought the challenge was over. So physically, I'd say I was always pretty steadfast. I'll always be able to keep moving forward. There was obviously a few logistical issues along the way that I thought, you know, this thing might get taken out of my hands.

12:54I think one of the bigger ones was probably Algeria, getting into Algeria. You know, we tried to get visas for it the first time. they said no then we flipped the whole mission on its head and started from the south to give us more time to try and kind of weasel our way in there and it was getting closer and closer and closer and we still hadn't managed to do anything we tried to exhaust all of the proper channels that we could have and then eventually I said to the boys I was like listen we've got a bit of a following online these days I reckon we try and get a video out and just try and get that thing to go set some fire to that and just let it go.

13:31And hopefully, you know, someone important will see it and they'll kind of open some doors for us. And it worked. I remember the video. Yeah. So it was pretty high risk because, you know, all the advice from the people with us were saying like, Algeria is quite a closed country. If you put this video online, they'll probably take offense to it and then you're definitely never getting in. But we were, it was so close to a while. We had about, you know, 30 days or so before we were due to get into Algeria. And if I couldn't get into Algeria, you know, I couldn't complete the mission. so it was a Hail Mary and you know when that came off that was pretty pretty big news to be fair that was incredible obviously there are similarities in the running across Africa running across New Zealand challenge but how did the finishing moments compare in each like obviously the moment that you cross the finish line in Africa was this you know monumental you know inspiring moment that people where essentially the hardest geezer was like has arrived born he's arrived you know like millions of people watching.

14:30How did New Zealand feel in comparison to that? Yeah, they felt pretty different to be fair. I think obviously in Africa, it was like that. It was an arrival moment. And it kind of felt like my entire life had been leading towards that point. It felt like pretty monumental. I think with New Zealand, obviously, it was a bit more of a lower stakes challenge. so for me it was more just like we've run out of Ireland now that's it we've run out of Ireland and that was a challenge of my life and there is going to be many more to come and it was just like sort of a continuation of this challenges always challenges are always coming but you know Africa was definitely like a pivotal one it was like a you know that's probably how I'd describe it the guy who crossed the finish line with you?

15:24what the yellow t-shirt? Yeah. He beat me in my own race. He beat me in a one-man race. I remember seeing that and thinking, who the fuck is that? Some local Tunisian geezer, a fair play to him. Yeah, just picked me to the post, eh? Frugal.

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16:51Ever hit a wall in the middle of the day and a third coffee just doesn't do it anymore? Here's what's actually happening. Coffee only briefly blocks adenosine, the chemical that tires you out. When it stops working, your system is flooded and you crash. Modafinil is a prescription treatment that works in a completely different way. Modafinil works by stimulating multiple receptors in the brain associated with wakefulness, including dopamine, serotonin, norepinephrine, histamine glutamate and orexin it's a more complete solution that gives you 10 to 12 hours of steady focus and energy to learn more go to mod.com fill out your intake form meet with a license provider and if approved mod alert ships straight to your door go to mod.com to get started That's M-O-D dot com

17:49The rise of ultra challenges is certainly a thing now Yeah, every day I feel like I log on to Instagram Someone's doing a day something of something, you know Do you ever feel that And I'm aware that ultras were around obviously before your big mission But as I've already said, I was inspired by you Do you ever feel that you're inspiring people to pursue challenges that they're not ready for? Yeah, I have felt that a few times. People can do a lot of damage to themselves just running themselves into the ground. But also, I hope overall it's positive. I wouldn't recommend to people to go and run Africa, for example.

18:28But I would also always recommend to go and run a bit further than maybe you ever have. Or go and push yourself. Go and find something that you really want to achieve and work out how you're going to do it and just go and smash it. you know and hopefully that's like the overall message obviously there's going to be a few people in the mix that decide to go and bury themselves and you know actually butch their body but take the rough with the smooth I think I think it's I think it's an interesting paradox isn't it if you want to call it that I think you know I've tackled ultras with very little preparation and felt the pain you find out quickly don't you yeah I felt the pain and you know the emotional, you know, drama, I suppose, and jeopardy that comes with it when you feel like you're really like down and out and you've got nothing left to give because you're underprepared.

19:20That in itself is an incredible experience because you pull yourself out of the depths of hell, right? To get to the end and it's very meaningful, right? Because you're teaching yourself that, you know, it's fucking hard. And when it is this hard, you almost have a greater sense of pride because you've proven something to yourself but you know prior to tackling the 30 any ultra I ever did I injured myself really badly a big swollen foot or ankle a big busted hip because you're not conditioned so you didn't really belong there in the first place but then of course you do kind of belong there because you completed it you had the moment of managing it and I felt you know when I was watching you and preparing for the 1330 I thought you know I better take this seriously right because it's a charity thing there's going to be a lot of eyes on it the last thing I want you know with my privileged reputation is to say I'm going to do this go out and fail on day 3 or 4 or 10 or whatever it might be so like the stakes are high right it's a whole month you know and kind of I for the first time in my life really like fully prepared for it you know put in the time did 2 000 kilometers in prep for it just really conditioned my body and as a result of that um was told almost on a daily basis by people online like oh you're finding this easy oh this looks like fun you know and it's kind of people were almost slightly less invested in it because we were playing great music and enjoying ourselves and drinking clean cocktails and like cracking gags online it was kind of like why aren't you crying?

21:01Why aren't you in pain? And it's kind of I was trying to figure out obviously we weren't going to change what we were doing to me that all that meant was like well you're doing a good job right? That's what you're doing eventually and you know that's what you did. Firstly did you have that? Did people say that to you? That it just looks like you're having a jolly? Not so much to be fair but I mean every month or so like something disastrous would happen so like I don't think there was enough time to really build up that time of a sense of a jolly. Especially, I mean, in Africa, it was literally like, this month it's pissing blood, next month we robbed a gunpoint, then I'm held hostage in a jungle, now I'm running through the desert, now I'm eating a snake for dinner.

21:48You know, like, no physio, we've got a blue IV code daily van that's an old school minibus. So we never really hit those holiday-type vibes with me in Africa. we didn't have to really dial up the drama because the drama was just like inbuilt into the daily running of it all. Like there was no getting away from it really. Just the circumstances we put ourselves were like inbuilt for a mad one. Like at the start, I would have, you know, we had no money, had a like total ragtag team. There was barely any of us. It was like, oh, we were like proper underdogs trying to make it happen. Felt like, I don't even know how we're going to do this sort of thing so I didn't start feeling like really grateful I started feeling like we're up against it here and then as I ran through more of these countries and more of the continent met more of the people then I started to have this sense of more like the very fact that running the lake of Africa has even been an idea that's entered my head shows how privileged and how lucky and how grateful I should be to even be here because there's you know I'm meeting people every day that can't even like are struggling to feed their families and all this kind of stuff and I was so that kind of that was something that grew in me as I as I traveled up the continent Talk me through the final days of it.

23:01And also, when did it gain national recognition? I mean, it came in stages. I guess at the start, there was a big influx of people that came to and started supporting right from the early doors, to be fair. And then, obviously, towards the end, it went a bit mad. I was so deep in it by the end. For the last month or so, I was doing 75, 80 kilometer days. so I wasn't really doing anything other than running and sleeping. So I was pretty tuned out to everything. I'd chuck something on Instagram that closed the app and that'd be that until the next day and then I'd do the same thing. But I do remember seeing it all go a bit mad and I just didn't really think about it until I was finished and then I came back to the UK and then I landed in London and I was getting recognised in the tube and things and I was like, this is wild, eh?

23:53what was that like for you? oh it was weird because by the way you were the hardest geezer before you went to Africa you had a fight with one of your pals in the parking lot somewhere and you earned the right to call yourself the parking geezer it was a lot to kind of to deal with my life obviously changed quite a bit when I came back so you know I don't even know if to this day I fully understand it or process it. I'm just, you know, just kind of get on with it. Like the rest of my life, well, we're just going to get on with this new stage, this new season, whatever it is. But yeah, I mean, I don't know if I was necessarily made to be like in the public.

24:33I like that, to be honest. So I'm a bit more of a just close myself off in the world type of bloke. What's it like, you know, you're the hardest geezer. You've run across Africa. You've run across New Zealand. You know, your challenges are big. They take a lot of time. They're huge. other people don't really chew off what you chew is there a sense that the next thing has to be bigger, better what does being you feel like now that you've set your bar so high? I think I do feel the pressure a bit more now I felt like when no one was watching I was free to do whatever I want and now with more people watching it feels like everything has to be set in place and do I have to go and top it?

25:26That's something that's been in my head since I finished. Do I have to top it? I think my answer is only if I want to and I have to really make sure that it's coming from the right place. For me, these challenges like Africa was so difficult and so painful as you'll know with your stuff. that you can't really do it if you don't in your heart want it. For me, if I wake up and I've got that feeling of like, I'll head back through this brick wall to get this thing done, then I'm unstoppable. But if I haven't got that, I'm fucked. So I need to like, with whatever I do in life, whether it's challenges or work, whatever I'm doing, I really need to know what it is that I want and make sure that I'm doing that and not get kind of drawn in by all of these little fancy shiny things rolling around on the periphery, you know.

26:17What was the feeling that you're chasing? So kind of, you know, you did Africa. I'd love to talk to you about New Zealand as well. Did you find the interest in New Zealand matched that of Africa? Or was it a little bit smaller? Was it an anticlimax? Or was it brilliant? How did it go? I think it was Africa and New Zealand, very different challenges, very different places, really. You know, like Africa from the start, it's an underdog story. right from the get-go, we've got nothing. We're trying to make this impossible thing happen. You know, there's a lot more jeopardy involved. It's dangerous.

26:52I'm getting ill all the time. I'm pushing it harder than I've ever pushed it before. With New Zealand, beautiful country, like, we were getting welcomed in everywhere we went. We were with the tourism boards who were, like, helping us do the whole thing. Didn't have to worry about resources because it's all sorted out for us. So, you know, if I'm completely honest with you, the challenges aren't the same. They're very different. And I think for that reason, people are less interested in running across New Zealand. I've done that kind of mileage before. I've proved to myself that I can do it. So for me, the challenge of New Zealand was more one after Africa of going back to doing something that I've always loved doing running and just slowing down a bit with it and enjoying the process a bit more.

27:43And I think for me, that's kind of what I'm trying to take away from it is that with all of these challenges, I don't know about you, but I can get really honed in on the finish line of everything. Like get to the finish, get to the finish, get to the finish, get to the finish. And I think with New Zealand, it was more like, okay, but one day the finish line of life will come and you'll be dead, mate. So you've got to try and enjoy the process a bit whilst you're here. So I think for me, it's like, all right, let's figure out how we can enjoy the process a little bit more. What were the difficulties with New Zealand or was it just a far more supported effort?

28:18Did you even find times during that challenge where you thought, I missed the jeopardy of Africa a bit? I guess so. But I think the challenges with New Zealand were probably more mental than anything. I rolled into New Zealand off the back of Africa thinking, 3 ,000k, light work. I'll breeze this. I barely even need to train for it. And then I rolled up and quickly found out it's like you know running is not something that you can just complete and then you're good at it for life running is something you need to continuously maintain and um i got probably a little bit overconfident with how tuned up my body was so i quickly found out in new zealand with lots of injuries um so that was a big wake-up call because it's like you know you if you're gonna take on multi-thousand kilometer runs you need to train like an absolutely mad dog like and you needs to be tuned up all the time.

29:09You can't just slack off and think that, ah, it's all right. It's going to be okay now. But overall, you know, the terrain in New Zealand was obviously pretty difficult. Lots of mountains. But yeah, compared to Africa, the challenges were not the same. But then, you know, I look at a Gucci, for example, breaking that Australian record and I'll be like, you are a seriously mad dog, you know, and I'll rate that. Yeah, you know, Will Gouge comes with some controversy, doesn't he? oh really I'm not very tuned in what's the controversy there was a little controversy around some of his data like a very very low heart rate very very very fast pace for some periods you know but like I'm not calling him out by the way you know I believe that Will Gouge is a talented ultra runner I think he's done some awesome stuff to be honest I'm not wading in on the situation I don't know anything about it there was quite a few people the questions that questioned his data as being legit but there's also a bunch of people that questioned it and have since retracted their comments and also went out there and saw him and watched him and witnessed him doing these long runs there's no doubt in my mind that he's an extraordinary athlete runner there just was some controversy around both of his big challenges around his American one as well I haven't actually looked at any of this data, but I do know Guji, and I would say it's almost certain that these people on the internet are just big whoppers that have looked at some of this data and decided that, you know, he's a cheat and they've made a lot of noise.

30:54Because they do it to me as well. They say the same things to me, and I'm like, listen, the data's there. If you want to, you know, if you want to say whatever you want to say, that's up to you but I know it and I think a lot of people on the internet can just get a bit a bit too much of this going on and I think they're a little bit they get a little bit jealous because you know they don't want to believe that someone like Goud can do it but the reality of like faking something like this with all the data that is available these days it would be more hassle than actually doing it yeah I would agree with that we, yeah, I mean, I was with my, I call him my Chris Taylor for some weird reason.

31:39You know, we're not in any kind of relationship, but he's a good friend. And he was, you know, when we were in Jordan, the data was just crazy. Zero question. You couldn't possibly question it, right? Just like four devices running at all times, you know, GPS, inReach, Garmin's, Corossus, you know, like everything everywhere, heart monitors, you know, just so that anyone who goes, oh I don't think he did marathon 20s there you go mate yeah yeah we did which I think is is an important part of of this this kind of stuff he's like ripped up as well he's like ripped up shredded yeah he's a good looking buster oh he is a sexy motherfucker Gucci wow incredible put a wig on him if you know what I mean

32:27would you look at so just to get a better understanding of you like would you look at nothing to do with him now yeah yeah would you look at that challenge that he's achieved and think i could do that no right now i can no i can do that right now i like the look of it what australia well i like the look of of of what he's just said i think i think in many ways and again like i hope this doesn't sound like i'm uh like after anything or in any way not a fan of his it's just not the case i think when bars are set it's fun to have a look at yeah what can be done. Chris called me the other day and was just like, I just got a call saying that someone wants to do your exact route and beat you.

33:07I was like, great, good for them. I was like, you know, I'd love to see that happen. Crack on. I think that would be really fun. I like a bit of a healthy competition. I think it's alright. I was looking at it, right, and the distances and the times and blah, blah, blah. And from what I can tell, there'd be like a chunk left over in the day, even if you went a bit slower. And I was kind of thinking, you know, it's doable. What, the Australia thing? Mm-hmm. Do you reckon? I think so. I'm not sure, man. What was the average? Do you know? He was averaging just over 80, I think. I'm not sure that he was.

33:37No, no. It was more than that, bro. I don't think so. No. Yeah, it was definitely more than that. It was like 110s. It was definitely plus 110s. I think he did a fair few 110s, but I think it was lower on average. Can we get a stat check on that? It was 36 days, wasn't it? 36 days. Something like that. No, I think it was less, actually. I think it was 35 or 34 days. For me, once you start getting above the one as a day, like the max I've done on a daily consistent basis for like 30 days or more has been 75 and that was at the end of Africa and when I look at that I'm like that was tough obviously it was the end of the project so I'm pretty battered up but I think if I'd trained seriously for something I could maybe get in and around that but you never know until you're in the mixer do you so yeah go on what's the stats So he did, so it was 3 ,800 kilometers in 35 days.

34:30It was an average of 110 a day. Yeah, that's pretty heavy lifting. And so, you know, 110 a day. Well, I'd love to chat to him about how he's breaking it up. So as part of my 24, I did 24 hours on the trot and did 171.3K. And I crossed 100K in 11.22. I'm trying to figure out whether if I stopped there and went to sleep for 10 hours or whatever, would I be able to just rinse and repeat that? Because that would be you would have thought that could be manageable but that's quite a fast 100k obviously it could take 14 hours to do it instead slow it down considerably from where I was because I think I was running if you look at that is that just over 6 minute k's?

35:20So it's kind of like I think Guji's gonna smash the pretty high bar there like this is just in the spirit of fun competition yeah no no 100 % and like I would if I thought I could do it I would be like yeah I reckon I've got it but right now anyway I'm like no Guji can have that you've just come back off of Staggsy and Magaluf yeah what was harder Magaluf or Africa honestly I did always say though that two day benders are great great mental prep for ultra running you've got to figure out a way to stay in the game minimal sleep fatigued keep going brother those nights were the worst in Jordan when for whatever reason you got like an hour's kit wild dogs or whatever just screaming and you just can't sleep or just for whatever reason you're just really uncomfortable and then like you've got you know your marathon smashed the following morning and if you don't do it in a certain amount of time it doesn't count for the world record and it's going to get 50 degrees you know just like you know grim yeah proper grim I like the record chat though so we've got the Australia record it's 34 days or 35 days?

36:2335 days. The Guji's done. Do you think you could do that? Well, as you've said I think I would need to There's nothing wrong with saying you think you could do it if you can. I think it's in me to do that. I think I would need to to your point prepare for it. I'd want at least a good six months to get going to that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. At least. And you'd pick a time and I'd probably take a similar team to Jordan and I would and by the way huge hats off to Guji massive respect to him. Oh, I don't think he would take offence saying, like, I think I could beat your record. Fair chance of failure, whatever.

36:57I would have a crack at that. I'd have a crack at that. What about the US? I think the US is quite an interesting one. 42 days, I believe. And I think that's about 114km a day average you need to beat that. But that'd be pretty big if someone could come and top that. I think that record's existed for a very long time. Would you fancy that? Well, I mean, it's very similar, isn't it? Yeah, 114k. a bit longer than ours. It's a bit longer, yeah. No, I think, like, I saw the Will thing and I thought, firstly, I thought how fun that would be. Like, obviously, it'd be painful, but, like, my mind works.

37:32Like, you know, as I've already said, Jordan obviously was just the one marathon every day. Yeah. But I, you know, there was plenty of room for more. Yeah. And the whole thing was on sand. So I didn't run on a road at all. I didn't have firm ground, not once, for a month. I think in Australia. Running on sand is dog shit as well, yeah. yeah yeah it's slow it's energy sapping you know so i could shave off you know a lot of time from those marathons if i had a road and and um i think you should do it bro i want to see it will you come i can't do that right now no way no i couldn't break that record right now no chance it looked awesome i like yeah a little bit of a fire in me like when i saw it because i loved it so much like i was really enjoying his content and i saw it and i just thought like that'll be fun going after something with a set time.

38:18Because the Jordan thing, as much as I loved it, was like, as long as I completed my marathon every day in under six hours, we're golden. So it was quite, you know, aside from maybe two or three days where that was quite rough because it was very loose sand and quite hilly. We, you know, broadly speaking, I was running them in easy in that time and it was kind of like, and I had time to enjoy myself. Whereas obviously if you're up against Gigi's record, and you'd be you would be really up against it and it would be rough rough shape eh yeah rough shape eh so there's there's some other records that I think would be that I've looked at I think would be interesting let's go the other one is Ned Brockman you know oh yeah yeah he tried to beat it I think he fell just short it was a hundred thousand miles that is so grim so grim so he tried to do a thousand miles in ten days yeah in ten days so that's about 160k a day yeah yeah for ten days forget it like I don't think so, no What do you think is harder, that or Australia or running across Australia with 110k average for 35 days?

39:22I think the track thing is harder than that because 160k I did 171 in 24 hours so the last 11k were pretty slow doing 160k and then having to do that 9 more times in 9 consecutive days There's no chance. I can say straight away that I'm out on day two, I reckon. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I could do the 160 on day one. I don't think I'm even getting 160 on day two. Yeah. I think I'm out already. Yeah, whereas 100k, 110k, like that last 50k is a big old chunk, you know? All right. Whereas 100k, I think you can do it over and over again. It's quite on the edge, I think. But yeah. I mean, yeah. Well, this is quite a big chat, isn't it?

40:11Are we off to Australia? Let's go, let's go. Okay, this one, I like the sound of this one as well. Longest run ever in one go. 350 miles. Mate! I think it's 350 miles, something like that. But, okay, so we were talking just before you arrived about like how fun it would be for us, you and me, just to set off and stop when you drop, basically. Just like, just no sleeping, nothing, right? Just no, you can fuel, you can go to the bathroom, you can even have a stretch, you can even have, you know, a quick 20 minute physio, but you can't give up, right? You've just got to go. How far do you reckon you're getting?

40:47What did you say? 350 miles? I think it's 350 miles. Bloody hell. 350 miles, yeah. Is it? Because what was that? How many K is that? That's like 500 and something K. 560 K. 560? In one row. Grim. Just shy of 81 hours. 81 hours? 81 hours. That would be the hardest part is staying awake, mate. If you said to me right now, stay awake for 81 hours but fuck that but I think 81 hours you're almost better off running though because like staying awake sat still you're never doing it you just pass out I was struggling to watch my favourite film the other day like I was just falling asleep but I think if you're out and about moving where would we do that?

41:29because I think track you'd have to do it on a track a track? yeah yeah yeah fucking hell that'd be boring wouldn't it? no but everywhere would get boring eventually and you might as well be on a track where you can have all your stuff right there and you can just how far do you reckon you're making it I reckon I've got I've got at least 200 miles in me at least I think I think it starts to get real rough after that maybe yeah I think I think I've got 50 hours in me I don't know what I think 50 hours would be I'll be like alright I can do 50 hours and then after that no sleep would really start fucking me up I think I've done about 40 or 45 hours no sleep before so that's not a million miles from what I'm saying if I did 171k which is 104 miles or 105 miles, something like that.

42:10I wonder if drugs are allowed on that. Maybe not those kind of drugs, but what some legal drugs, don't do drugs, kids. No, no, no. Like, you know, some stimulants that can, I don't know, whatever, like caffeine, but like stronger. Yeah, something that can keep you up. Yeah, yeah. I suppose. Because I don't know how people are staying awake for eight hours in one go. That's crazy. I've done several days on the trot when I used to work at ICAP, but you know, that's a different life. Yeah. Do you know, are you starting to see what I'm saying though, with like the benders kind of a good training for the ultras.

42:39Oh, yeah, yeah. Good mental prep. I think, you know, those boozy days at ICAP are certainly what got me around the desert. Yeah, I think so. I'm a big believer. But no, I think, like, that's pretty funny, mate, because I think you've kindly said that we could explore doing a challenge together or something like that. I think that's a great one, especially if it's at a track, because it is like, as well, when one person stops, which someone inevitably will at some point, the other can continue without being in some Welsh Valley somewhere, you know? Yeah. Are you thinking relay type thing? Because I think relay could be interesting.

43:11Well, just see how far we can get as a team. Imagine a relay of like, but one of us has always got to be running. Yeah. Just how far can you go? And we have to both stay awake? Otherwise, we can go for it. One's running, one's sleeping sort of vibes. And you just go until someone's fucked. I mean, we can fucking go for a real long time. 12 hour shifts. I mean, how long do you reckon we could do that for? I reckon we could go a pretty long time. That might be a kind of like, darling, you're taking the kids to school for.

43:39See you in three months. Yeah, no, that's interesting, isn't it? I think it'd be... I thought this the other day. That's so funny that we were talking about this now. I was lying in bed thinking, like, if I just set off for a run at like six in the morning and I'm not allowed to sleep and the finish line is just giving up. Just stopping when you literally can't take another step. Like, you can sit down, as I said. Sit down and rub your legs and whatever else. but like giving up like when you pull the ripcord you're done how far do I reckon I could go and I really don't know but I'd love to try it like that's exactly the kind of thing that I'd love to do yeah I like because there's there's the limit and then there's like the gun to your head limit yeah they're kind of different things aren't they so it'd be like it'd be interesting to see what the gun to the head limit is yeah I think what kind of place would you go because it's interesting is it would you try and bank the first like 100k quite quickly or not I think 7 minute Ks because you can shuffle shuffle like you know Gucci shuffle yeah shuffle that yeah he's a shuffler yeah yeah yeah he's a world class shuffler he is a good shuffler he shuffles yeah yeah yeah those are long pins mate get them out shuffle along I like the no sleep thing because it does mean that the thing has to come to an end at some point I think if we give ourselves rests and stuff we're going to go for a real long time yeah the no sleep thing's good no sleep thing is good I think we're going to do what we're going to do three full days I think That ultimately is where we're going to end up, isn't it?

45:05Yeah. Have you seen them Backyard Ultras as well? Is that the Beyond the… Yeah, so you do like 7K an hour every hour. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so you've got like 15-minute windows to rest sort of thing. Those lads smashed it. Those two lads. Did you see… What lads? The one in Texas. Last Man Standing, it's called. It's the BPU or BPN. Okay. There's one that's just done that in Texas. It's 7.2K or something. You've got to go an hour, an hour, an hour. hour. They did like three and a bit days. Oh yeah, that's sick. Yeah. And it was, I think the records are a hundred, a hundred hours, something flat as well.

45:40A hundred hours. Pretty tasty. Absolutely grim, isn't it? Yeah. Like imagine, imagine like, imagine how knackered you are at the end of that. You go to bed and you're just like, oh. But they must be like doing little five minute cat naps. Well, he said he sat down to tie his shoelaces and he fell asleep for 10 minutes. That's sick. That is sick actually. Yeah. Yeah. Imagine like, what I find so interesting about that as well is like, what's the fueling strategy or even like the caffeine strategy for that? Because you want to, you probably, there gets to a point where you probably need to take your little five minute power nap every hour, right?

46:18Yeah. So do you want to caffeinate up or not? Because you might caffeinate up and then you miss your sleep and then it fucks you even more. So that's mind games, isn't it? What do you even do with that? That's dark times. Yeah, real dark. real real listen I think we do it this is what this show's all about like we're we should do it we should set up little cameras and we should just go we should go for it three days yeah delicious yeah we'll probably have a good chat for like the first day and then it'll be like should we go somewhere where it's not going to be freezing at night though because that will make a big difference nowhere it's that cold in the UK in that night though what at the moment in summer it was zero degrees when I did my 24 hours was it and that just sucks I went from being boiling to just freezing which wasn't helpful obviously because then I had to I had to fight kind of hypothermia and stuff which was fine but like it I would have preferred to have just been in Africa 100 % yeah I actually quite like the heat I don't mind running in the heat yeah I like that as well yeah chuck me in for a 25er we'll find ourselves a nice little Spanish track or something that way it's like 20 degrees at night and we'll just go yeah I'm key do you ever wonder what your potential is having achieved so much in this space having covered so many thousands of miles like if you had unlimited access to physio, nutrition, trainer, cash, you know, sponsors, whatever.

47:34Like, do you wonder if you would ever stop? That's an interesting one for me because I think on the surface, you probably think that all of those things would be good to have. But I actually, I think different people are made for different things, you know? And like, when I see like a Googe smashing the Oswald record or I see all of these records for longest time ran or the US or Land's Engine on the Goats, etc. Or even some of these elite ultra runners that are out there winning races and things. As amazing as it is, I don't think that's necessarily me. I think the parts that made me made for Africa is that I will go and run 50k and then sleep in a van and have no physio and eat janky breads that I found on the side of the road.

48:27And I'll get up and I'll go again. I'll do it with no money as well. And that's where I excel in that arena. And I think they're slightly different arenas. I don't know how I would get on with all of the... I think in a lot of ways, it might even be a hindrance to me having all of these people around me, big team physios, people trying to talk to me all the time. Maybe I'm better suited to just being a raw dog going through Africa with like three lads in a shitty van. honestly I think that's maybe the answer is that's what I'm made for unfortunately well guys listen we've had a good chat a challenge has risen from the conversation which is what the show is all about mate it's been an absolute pleasure having you on the show thanks so much for coming in and sharing your wisdom maybe we'll leave the listeners with just a passing thought you know if people are thinking about testing themselves, pushing themselves potentially trying to untap the potential that I know is within everyone what would you advise them?

49:23And my advice would be, sometimes in life, you've got to risk it for a chocolate biscuit. And chocolate biscuits are well yummy, so you should risk it. Thanks so much for listening. We hope you enjoyed that episode. And if you want to hear more incredible conversations with extraordinary people to help unlock the potential within all of us, then please subscribe, follow and review the show wherever you're listening or watching. Thanks again. We'll catch you next week, right here on Untapped.

50:21We'll be right back.

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