How To Run a 2:47 Marathon, Hack Your Endurance and Recover Quicker | Will Goodge

0:02Will Goodge, welcome to Untapped. Great to be here Spencer, thank you for having me. It's a pleasure. We've wanted to interview you for ages. I follow your stuff, I'm an avid fan of the stuff that you've done, love the records that you hold, pay close attention to them, and have genuinely found you to be a very interesting character for ages. So delighted that you're here. Thank you very much, it's good to be here. I'd say that you're a very good runner, of course. So when did you realise that you had, you know, talent for running? It was probably, it would have been when I ran John O 'Groats to Land's End.

0:32But actually, even saying that, that was in 2019. I didn't feel like I was talented at running, but I realized what I was willing to give to complete a goal. So I think that was the switch for me. And then I'd probably say I felt like I was a good runner. It was probably after I ran across the US, because that was pretty full on. I also had said I was going to do it in, I think, 66 days and ended up doing it in 55. So I outdid my own expectation. I was like, OK, there might be something here where I can continue to push and even aim for bigger goals, maybe going for records, beating ones that are already standing, that kind of thing.

1:16So I see long distance endurance events like that and say running a fast marathon or a very fast 5k as kind of almost different sports. Yeah, I'd agree. You're also a fast runner. Your marathon PB is 247. Yeah. And you did that in London this year. I saw you at the finish line. Yeah, yeah. Talk me through how you become a better runner. So not to take away from incredible achievements like running across Australia, running across America. You know, I think we understand that that is gritty, requires a lot of mental resilience and fortitude to just stick with it. Well, you know, a certain kind of person can do that.

2:01But running a very fast marathon requires a lot of sustained effort, work, a plan. You know, it's very difficult to go completely off piste or to completely avoid what you should be doing and still achieve the goal. How did you become fast? I think a lot of it would have been the foundational stuff from having ran thousands of miles every year for, well, in the past nine now. But even before that, like I've done a few sub threes now. I think you can't rush into thinking you're going to be fast straight away. There's very few people that end up doing that. Ben Felton, one guy, obviously already kind of looked built for running when he got into it.

2:40Hugo Fry is another one, psycho, love the guy. But I think you have to allow a period of years if you want to be fast in a marathon distance because you need those foundations to be able to build from this and then add the speed work in that's really going to tune yourself up. but your body has to be ready and available to be running 60 plus miles a week I would say if you're wanting to do a sub three I think you need that kind of volume and also be doing like one to two speed sessions a week in there as well and I mean we're talking sub three your sub 250 so 247 so oh a 245 is a uh 354 average pace something like that so if I'm not mistaken you ran 34k at sub four minute k's uh that to put it into perspective is you know six and a half sub 20 minute five k's yeah you know it's it's it's it's good running do you follow a strict plan for that one i did i've never how long how long were you in a block for well the thing the thing about the london marathon for me was i'd come off of australia finishing in may and then i took the rest of the year off.

3:53And you understand when you do these big challenges, it's all, it's kind of a traumatic situation to go through. Your body is just, all systems are down. So I have to take that amount of time off. And then I got into a marathon block and I started at the end of January. So it wasn't a big block, but I think I needed to give myself that period of rest. But then when I got into it, I hit it really hard. And I'm fortunate now that this is my job. So I don't have to, I don't have a nine to five and I highly respect anyone that has a job and still runs. I don't know how people do it because hugo fry is a great example of somebody that you know until relatively recently was running 160k a week with a job insane yeah absolutely insane because i wake up it might be 9am i'm like i'll run at three i'm very lucky i'm very lucky but do you look forward to running no no not at all never no well sometimes if i'm somewhere new or it's like sunny and shiny outside it's great but I'm the opposite of an enthusiastic runner when it when it comes down to it I don't click my heels in the morning go can't wait to fucking run I'm like no way but I saw something interesting recently which I really liked and it was um it was taken from a concept or something they do in the training camps in Kenya where they say you don't have to do the session if you don't want to you do have to go out and run for five minutes first start the first five minutes of the session.

5:18And then most of the time, like nine times out of 10, you're going to then go and complete it or at least do the majority of it. And that for me was like a really interesting note that I've taken since, because it really is that battle you have of thinking, I can't be bothered, I should, I could be doing something else. That's the bit where most people fail. But as soon as you're out the door, it's very difficult then I think to not do the session or not complete most of it. Not to sound like some kind of Buddhist monk or whatever but it's it's amazing the power of the mind when you're running and how you frame a session yeah like if you go out thinking my legs hurt i'm stiff this is gonna this is gonna suck i'm gonna be slow that's how the session's gonna be you know if you whack on a thumping tune that you love and you smile and you try and break free of the shit feelings yeah typically it kind of really helps and you do that wrestling match with yourself beforehand and then when you're doing it you're like oh this is actually mint yeah and then afterwards you feel great and also that's that's when i get the best like positive feedback from a session when you've really can't be asked to do it and then you complete and afterwards you're like yeah that was that was a good win because it could have so easily been a loss this episode is sponsored by zocdoc have you been putting off a doctor's appointment or need a dentist and don't know where to start, you've definitely been there.

6:41And that's why we use ZocDoc. Actually, over the holidays, Michael had a dental emergency and seemingly every office was closed. But we hopped onto ZocDoc, found an in-network dentist, had great reviews, saw real-time appointments available, which was key. It was on New Year's Day and booked an appointment in just minutes. It took so much of the stress out of the already stressful situation, ZocDoc makes it easy to search and compare over 250 ,000 local in-network providers across more than 200 specialties. So you can find the right doctor or dentist and book instantly. Ready to be seen? Download the ZocDoc app today and book that appointment on your to-do list.

7:24That's Z-O-C-D-O-C. ZocDoc. Mod.com is changing the way people battle excessive fatigue. Ever hit a wall in the middle of the day and a third coffee just doesn't do it anymore? Here's what's actually happening. Coffee only briefly blocks adenosine, the chemical that tires you out. When it stops working, your system is flooded and you crash. Modafinil is a prescription treatment that works in a completely different way. Modafino works by stimulating multiple receptors in the brain associated with wakefulness, including dopamine, serotonin, norepinephrine, histamine, glutamate, and orexin. It's a more complete solution that gives you 10 to 12 hours of steady focus and energy.

8:11To learn more, go to mod.com. Fill out your intake form, meet with a licensed provider, and if approved, ModAlert ships straight to your door. Go to mod.com to get started. That's M-O-D dot com

8:53IV makes it easy to stay hydrated wherever life takes you. So shop now at liquidiv.com. Liquid IV hydration that goes wherever life takes you.

9:05I find it kind of fascinating that most of the time you would shy away from like wanting to get out there. So like there's a big part of you that doesn't really like it then. Yeah, true. But that's also the value you get from it. I think doing things you don't like that are good for you then the feeling you get afterwards from completing it is maybe heightened than if it was just easy to get out the door and you just love doing it all day every day. It's that old ice bath chat. Nobody actually loves getting in a zero degree ice bath at 6.30 in the morning but when you've done it you feel amazing.

9:41Do you ice bathe? I go through phases. I haven't done it a lot recently only because I've seen some of that research that it's not actually that great for you. but a lot of it's coming from like bodybuilding isn't it where if you go in after doing like a strength session it's going to ruin your games yeah we have a second episode every week with Oli Patrick who's a physiologist what's he saying? he's like a human kind of chat GPT like he just knows everything like you can ask him anything and he just knows everything it's kind of weird like if I was him walking around I would struggle just because you understand and know everything.

10:22And there's just idiots around everywhere else. Morons. I actually would prefer to be like my level of intelligence, which is significantly lower than his because I imagine it can only be like a stressful burden to be here. But anyway, he said saunering is probably single-handedly the best thing that a human being can do. Similar to, who's that dude? The longevity guy? Oh yeah, Brian Johnson. I was about to say Brian Adams. He's a singer, isn't he? Yeah, yeah. Brian Johnson. Yeah. So they're both sauna good, ice bathing, sure. I love a cold shower and ice bath because it genuinely kind of makes me feel good.

11:02You jump in, you feel wide awake, alive, and it really gives you a kick up the ass. It's quite instantaneous, that feeling as well. So I do understand that because I used to do it a lot. Yeah. But I like it because I think it makes you feel good. I'm not doing it because I think it nukes brown fat or whatever. I don't think people really need a reason, a scientific reason to do things in life, just do things that you like doing. Agreed. But also, with the Brian Johnson stuff, or anyone who's deeply into longevity, you're almost sacrificing living a full, fun life in order to prolong your life, which is inherently boring.

11:42and then you'll arrive at the inevitable end having lived a boring life. Yeah, looking at your data all day. To me, I just don't really get it. I'm not interested in it and I don't really give a shit. I'd rather not die next year, but I would also, I don't really give a shit about being really old either. I mean, yeah, I can agree with that. Fuck you, Brian, is what I heard.

12:11it's so boring it is boring though I like you Brian I think you're an interesting guy I quite like him as well but I do think it's a bit silly no I'd never do it but you know it's good I'm glad someone is yeah I know now I know now that I should ice my balls in the sauna yeah no I still don't do that yeah yeah it's good to know I also know that that is something I should do but I just don't still because I think it's like you know I've got a fourth kid on the way I don't really need my balls Wow. Yeah. Unreal. Yeah, I've got three kids, mate, and I've got a fourth coming soon in like three and a half weeks.

12:44Unreal. Congratulations. And yeah, I've never once iced my balls in a sauna and they work very well. Have you tried that thing that everyone's doing? A lot of runners will finish a run and then go straight into a sauna. I kind of, I try, well, I don't try and do that anyway. We've got a little sauna at home, so, you know, I'll typically run first thing or last thing. Yeah. and so if the kids are asleep I'll jump straight in but I didn't realise that that was a thing I'm glad that it is because it's kind of what I do anyway and all this heat stuff with Max Joliffe recently is sick as well what's happening there?

13:17because he won Badwater didn't he? and then broke the record and then it came out there was like a BPN thing where they showed his heat training and I immediately bought a heat suit I was influenced so hard and then I'm going to Colorado next week so I'm going to be taking it with me but yeah it is interesting the adaptation and he was shown like his heat preparedness on like a scale. I don't know where we would have got the information from, but his thing just continued to rise, continued to rise of how well he was adapted to running in the heat. So the idea is that you just get comfortable with a higher internal body temperature.

13:54Yeah, and it's got something to do with like raising hemoglobin or something. I don't know. Lovely, yeah. Ollie? Yeah, yeah. Call that guy. What's hemoglobin? Call him. But yeah, all these people that are performing really well, seem to be doing a lot of heat training. So whilst I'm not great on the science, if I see someone doing something and they're achieving good things, I'll just try and follow suit. You said you'll never be a sub 16 minute 5k. What's your 5k PB? I don't think I've ever done one. It might be 18 minutes. It might be just below, but I don't think I've gone sub 18. But then in some of my training block for London, I was getting close to it.

14:28So it's just I've never really done those shorter distances. I've never done a park run in my life. I went sub 18 for the first time the other day at a park run but because it's because it's a kind of race I know park runs not a race I got grilled online for like treating park run like a race it's like so what I see loads of people treating it as a race it's a race well doesn't I think it's like it's that's the cool thing not that I've ever done it but that's the cool thing it's like you see kids doing it you see older people doing it then you see like Ben Felton doing it in 14 minutes I was smoked by a 12 year old amazing we set off and he was kind of like next And at first I was like, oh, sweet.

15:06This kid's like running the first K with me. And then like, he was just getting faster and faster. I averaged 335 average pace. And he just nuked me in the last K. And I was like, I just got smoked by a 12 year old. You also assume, because I was an idiot when I was 12, that they would go out really hot and then just die after like a kilometer and a half. But this kid obviously knew what he was doing. So what have you got coming up? I am doing a marathon distance in all 50 US states. So 50 marathons. And we're going to be doing it in 24 days. So there's two days of single marathons. I'm starting in Hawaii.

15:43And I'm finishing at the New York City Marathon. So I have one official race. That's lovely. I'm looking forward to getting back into doing something stupid, which is what I call it, which means I'm going to love it. But being able to see like all 50 US states in any kind of length of time, But in that length of time, whilst running around, we'll be off the charts. So it's mainly two marathons a day. But then because we have those two singles, I think we've got three days of three marathons. So that'll push me a bit. And then you'll have very little sleep while we're fucking traveling to another state and then get up and go again.

16:18You'll see the states when you're running in them. But I think people assume that you get to really take it all in. And actually, you kind of don't. When we did the Seven Continents, it's kind of, you know, hotel rooms are a blur. You know, the airports are all the same. Yeah. And ultimately, it's kind of similar stuff. Agreed. Because you're just rinsing and repeating the same kind of race. Obviously, a different environment, but you're kind of preoccupied. Managed to take in Jordan because it's kind of slower and every day was quite similar. But, you know, that was incredible. what's the nicest moment that you have had in any of the extraordinary things that you've done is there is there a singular time or a day that will remain really special to you that you'll remember forever I don't know if I could if I could pick one but there's been there's been so many special moments and I think that's why once you do one of these things you can't help but go back and do another one.

17:19I feel very privileged in those situations because when you're pushing your mind and body that much and then you achieve something, even if it's just finishing the day, there's no other way of capturing that feeling. It doesn't matter where you're from, what your bank balance is, who your parents are, what your education is. That feeling that you will experience or I experience is only capable and only it can only be felt by putting in so much hard graft of a very simple and mundane task of putting one foot in front of the other. Is it pride that you're talking about? There's definitely pride in there because you prove to yourself what you're willing to do.

18:00I feel like that's something in the way you speak about running, doing the difficult thing, getting out there, doing the thing you don't really feel like doing, you know like the the the the fact that it feels good afterwards is great but i think you know most people who do difficult things want to feel that sense of i'm proud of myself for doing that that was difficult and i'm glad i did it well originally it was because i wanted to feel pain so my i got into running because i lost my arm to cancer when i was 23 which is a challenging in time, 23, you're considered a man, but mentally, I don't know about you, but I definitely wasn't there.

18:43That tells the story. I had a long way to go. Yeah, you had a long way to go. Still, still, still, I think, you know, we're all growing up a bit. Yeah, I agree. But in that, in that period, I felt like I had very two clear paths. One was complete self-destruction, which was, would have been easy because I had an excuse. You lost your mom. you must be sad, drugs, alcohol, whatever, throw your life away a little bit, people would have accepted it. But then the other way was to use all this mental pain, how much my heart was hurting, for something that would make it mean more than a sad story. So running became my vehicle for that.

19:18Were you close to your mum? Yeah, super close. She'd be the first person I told good news to or bad news to. Yeah, she was like my rock, my number one. So yeah. At any age, it's shit to lose your mom, but that was particularly tough. Part of the reason I run is almost to put her on a pedestal as well, to be like she was such a strong and amazing woman that she created me and made me able to do these things. When you've seen someone fight for their life, it makes when your situation is tough feel like you're basically being a bit of a bitch because you've seen someone literally struggling to hold on to their last breath and I've chosen to be out there running.

20:00It doesn't even come close to what a lot of people go through. So that's a mental note that I keep with myself pretty much all the time when things get tough. I'm like, you're not close, bro, carry on. So it is a superpower and one I'd prefer not have, to be honest. I'd prefer to be around. If I could trade it all in, I would. Have you seen any signs of your mum when you're out running? So that's when you asked me the question earlier. There's been quite a few, which has been amazing. So when I did John O 'Groats Salon's End, I remember it was on day three or four and I was struggling hard. Because before that, eight months before I ran my first marathon, I'd never run a marathon before.

20:39And I did two ultras in the buildup and never ran the day after. And then I was trying to run 55 miles a day or whatever every day. So I'm an idiot. Yeah. But I had so much pain at that point that I wanted to suffer as much as I could. it was like acceptable self-harm like yeah he's running this thing it's gonna suck it's gonna hurt but there was one there was one particular moment when I was really struggling I remember being with like like walking poles barely being able to move forward I've got the crew behind me in a in a truck and it was being filmed at the time which is which is good because I've seen it back and it still gives me like chills but I'm there really struggling I got my headphones in and before she passed away for a birthday I got her tickets to Andrea Bocelli her and my my grandma really loved him so I got them tickets obviously unfortunately she passed away I ended up going to the concert with my ex and fucking crying the whole time but I was there and all of a sudden obviously just not moving very well all of a sudden I just I didn't know I didn't know I'd taken this action but I was sprinting or at least the version of sprinting with a totally broken body it felt like I was running 30 miles an hour.

21:50But I was sprinting and then I realized that there was a song. I can't remember what it's called. He does it with Dua Lipa. But even though it's kind of a love song, you know you can pick parts of lyrics and it kind of makes sense to your own story or love for a mother or a father or whatever. So I just found myself sprinting to this song. I'd thrown the walking poles to the side and then the team were like, what the fuck is going on? And they were like, I don't know. He was struggling for the past five hours, barely moving, and now he's sprinting. And that probably went on for about eight minutes.

22:22But I felt an incredible sense of her presence. Like everything was light up. All my senses all of a sudden came alive. And then it got to a point where some other songs had probably come on, but I was like, I was finished. Everyone was kind of concerned to come up and talk to me. They're like, you're right. And I was like, yeah, I think I'm done. No one said anything, then pulled off to the side, got in the RV and went to sleep. But that was like the first palpable moment of having this experience, feeling her like it felt like I was being lifted by an angel. Basically, I had I was so much down here and then I got elevated and I was doing something that didn't make sense physiologically.

23:03So there's been there's been experiences like that and pretty much everything I've done since.

23:12Mod.com is changing the way people battle excessive fatigue. Ever hit a wall in the middle of the day and a third coffee just doesn't do it anymore? Here's what's actually happening. Coffee only briefly blocks adenosine, the chemical that tires you out. When it stops working, your system is flooded and you crash. Modafinil is a prescription treatment that works in a completely different way. Modafinil works by stimulating multiple receptors in the brain associated with wakefulness, including dopamine, serotonin, norepinephrine, histamine, glutamate, and orexin. It's a more complete solution that gives you 10 to 12 hours of steady focus and energy.

23:54To learn more, go to mod.com. Fill out your intake form, meet with a licensed provider, and if approved, ModAlert ships straight to your door. Go to mod.com to get started. That's M-O-D dot com. Hi, I'm Jack Crivechi, Kramer host of The Best One Yet. At T-Boy, we're always talking about small decisions that can have an outsized impact. One of the simplest is staying hydrated. Whether I'm traveling, getting a workout in, or heading into a busy day, I keep Liquid IV on hand. It's clinically demonstrated to hydrate faster than water alone and contains three times the electrolytes of the leading sports drink, plus eight vitamins and nutrients.

24:34It's an easy addition to your daily routine and helps support hydration when you need it most. Shop now at liquidiv.com. Liquid IV hydration that goes wherever life takes you. This episode is sponsored by ZocDoc. Have you been putting off a doctor's appointment or need a dentist and don't know where to start? You've definitely been there and that's why we use ZocDoc. Actually, over the holidays, Michael had a dental emergency and seemingly every office was closed. but we hopped onto ZocDoc, found an in-network dentist, had great reviews, saw real-time appointments available, which was key. It was on New Year's Day and booked an appointment in just minutes.

25:12It took so much of the stress out of the already stressful situation. ZocDoc makes it easy to search and compare over 250 ,000 local in-network providers across more than 200 specialties. So you can find the right doctor or dentist and book instantly. Ready to be seen? Download the ZocDoc app today and book that appointment on your to-do list. That's Z-O-C-D-O-C. ZocDoc.

25:42The other one to talk about was just in the U.S. We crossed the board from California into, what was it? No, Nevada. No, what's my favorite state? Anyway. Vegas. Yeah, we're in Vegas. I can't remember what it is but either way we woke up in the morning we'd gone from like the Mojave Desert so there's absolutely nothing in it and my mum loves mum loves flowers she's a gardener and we were just going up this hill in the morning and there were suddenly wildflowers everywhere so for some reason I just opened my hand and it felt like we were holding hands like walking up this hill together and then obviously I was crying about it but also happy so yeah I could go on but No, it's beautiful, man.

26:26It's really lovely to feel close to a loved one that's passed. I have some similar experiences, but this is your interview. I find when you're depleted and when you're doing something really difficult that requires you to really grip into those latter stages where giving up feels like the obvious choice, I feel quite close to that. to my brother. And I've had experiences similar to yours where you just feel like they're like literally arm around you. Yes, it's amazing. It really is special experience. Since running the length of Britain, you have evolved enormously as an athlete, you know, you're much faster and, you know, would be considered, you know, a very good runner now.

27:18You proved that you can do extraordinary things and snatch, you know, existing world records off famous ultra athletes. So you're right up there among the best. What does a typical kind of training week look like for you when you're switched on, when you're dialed in, when your discipline's at its best? That's a good key point to put when I'm switched on. A lot of the year, it's just like kind of made up and how it's going along. But now generally for me, it'll be split into I'll run six days, but there might be multiple sessions in a day, especially with what I've got coming up, it's kind of good to split sessions because that's what I'm going to be doing every day if I'm doing two marathons.

27:58But right now it's anywhere around 100 miles. When I go to Colorado next week, it will be 100 plus every week. Two strength sessions on legs. I totally stopped doing upper body. A week or a day? A week. Okay. Sorry, yeah. Six running sessions a week. Well, six days of running. Two leg sessions. And then I might do a recovery ride on a Sunday if I really feel like it. But within those sessions, there's always going to be one speed or tempo workout as well. Because with Mission America, I have to do every marathon in five hours or less, which is slow. But when you're stacking them back to back to back to back to back, et cetera, you still need to be able to turn the legs over rather than just power walk through.

28:41Yeah. There's a conscious thing where I'm going to need to basically run every step. There's no walking around on this one. I'm just trying to figure it out so far. Yeah. power walking wouldn't get you around. No. You could get away with walking some of it, but I know what you're saying. You'd rather take a break and run each thing. Exactly, yeah. Yeah. Which is good because it focuses me. It was the same as when I was doing Australia. We did a lot of speed work during that because when I'm running across the country or doing back-to-back days, the kind of cut-off point is 16 hours if you want to have enough time for recovery.

29:18You call it recovery. but any kind of like time off of feet like if you're going past 16 hours then sleep deprivation is really going to come into it and you're on like a downward trajectory so with this it's going to be about yeah moving efficiently all the time I know people like to talk about recovery all the time like it's as important as the sport itself um I see you are a whoop yeah how much how much value do you place on your sleep do you do anything uh in particular to recover in extraordinary ways? Do you have any tips? For me, sleep is king. When I'm doing these things, especially with Mission America, I'll be having naps.

29:59So I use this binaural beats. What is it? Binaural beats. Binaural beats? Yeah, you listen to like this. Some of them are like rain noises. Oh, yeah. But it tricks your brain waves and takes it down into like a sympathetic state. so it's very easy to nap in in that world. How long are you napping for? On these kind of things it will be as much as possible so between states sometimes it's going to be two hours sometimes will be four sometimes I'm on a plane so that's going to be difficult. So you'll nap instead of like sleeping? Yeah and then I'll have the Normatec boots on as well there's nothing there's not a whole lot you can do I've never had a physio on anything I've done I feel like they're going to, one, waste time doing stuff, and two, tell me things I don't want to know.

30:45Like, this is not looking good. I'm like, yeah, no shit. It hurts like fuck. So, yeah, they're the real two key things I'll do. And then if there's any inflammation, just ice. God, I'm amazed that you don't take a physio. I'm sure it would be good, but because I've never done it, I'm concerned that if I start, I've just got this idea in my head. Well, listen, nobody's going to mess with that. And also, it's quite fun on the road that I do a lot of my crew. Two of them are like former military. Yeah. So they can just fix problems. They're fucking amazing. So the same with like my Achilles blew up across Australia.

31:21And usually you'd definitely be out for a period of weeks trying to get. But you have to figure out. There's no two ways around it. You have to figure it out. So you put wedges in your shoe. I'm doing these crazy baths at night. Didn't even know what was going on. There was a day in the desert where I 100 % thought that I was done. So my foot blew up in a way that it was just extraordinarily painful. I couldn't put any weight on my right foot. And in that moment, I was furious because so many people wanted me to fail. And so many people were paying attention to it. Thanks, everyone, by the way.

31:55It makes it fun. No, but it was devastating. I was furious. I was screaming. I was swearing. I was literally livid, right? Because it just got worse and worse. It felt like a kind of almost like a wasp sting or like a really bad burning sensation just beneath my ankle. Sounds grim. And it was horrible. And Johnny came and had a look at it. He put a bit of that kind of ibuprofen cream on it. WD-40, a bit duct tape. Yeah, yeah, exactly. A couple of nails in it. And he loosened my shoelaces. And I was actually angry with him, right? Yeah. Not his fault, obviously, but he was just like, loosen your shoelaces a bit, your shoelaces are a bit tight.

32:33I was like, man, it's fucking nothing to do with my fucking shoelaces. Like, like, forget it. He was like, loosen your shoelaces, walk 500 meters and just like try and put a bit of like weight back through it. Yeah. K later, gone. Mental, isn't it? I couldn't believe it. And it was because my shoelaces were too tight. But like the pain that I felt, I felt was, I thought it had ended the whole challenge. I thought the whole challenge was over and my shoelaces were too tight. It's amazing how those little things can be overcame and what kind of impact they have. The thing I started doing on Australia was cutting the shoes open because you know how around the ball of your feet, around the outside, you're always getting mad blisters.

33:15Sometimes your feet swelling up. In the end, I had the toes off. I had the ball of the foot off and here. It was like a sandal. So if any brand starts bringing out cut-up shoes, just know you've stolen it from me. We've copyrighted it. We definitely haven't. But it's amazing how little things can impact things in your head and what you're feeling in such a positive way. The same as when I had stress fractures running joggle. And I remember I had the first like full mind-body connection moment. Because I was talking to my like feet and my knees and my legs at night. Like thanking them for the work they'd done.

33:51And like, oh, thanks for the quads for taking the strain from the calves. and all I did when I could barely walk and I was like limping with my walking poles is I was just concentrating on where my foot was landing. I was like, the pain's up the inside of both shins. Maybe if I just try and like land on the outside of the foot a little bit, maybe that will help. Like you said, a K later, I was running again. Yeah. I also talk to my feet. That's really weird. I've never ever spoken to anyone else that talks to their body parts. Yeah, when I'm out there doing it, I'm just like, you're doing really well lads like keep in there my left foot blew up in uh in the amazon rainforest on an ultra and i had to do the last 82k the last day with like one foot basically i just couldn't put any weight through it and i was chatting to my left foot the whole way through it saying like if you just allow me this exactly day i'll almost i'll treat you i'll treat you really well i'll foot rub incoming yeah yeah i will i will give you loads of lovely treatment if you just let me put a bit of weight through you look how spiritual one more day spiritual yeah i know i know aren't we nice we're good aren't we how does it feel when um who was that did a dude follow you across america making sure that you weren't cheating yeah he came out uh when we got to oklahoma so what i say so explain it a bit so as somebody that you know enjoys watching you push yourself and enjoys the challenges that you set yourself how does it feel when you're doubted or even worse accused of it being not real or cheating?

35:26I think it comes with the territory. So it's always going to be there one way or another and that's okay. At times it really pisses me off. But also I ride very well off of anger. I can use all kinds of emotions as long as there's emotion there. I use the term emotion as energy. So whatever they are, as long as they're heightened, they really help. So the story was this guy, when I announced that I was going to beat the British record running across America. By the way, that's a marketing stunt, so people will be interested in it. No one gives a shit about who's the fastest English person to do something.

36:07It's who's the fastest person to ever do it. Pete Koselnik. His record stood since 2016. I can't remember how many days he did it in. I think it's 42. Very fast. Maybe it's 46. Respect to him. He's got the record. but to give myself something, some kind of framework to aim towards, in the research, I was like, okay, who's the fastest British person to run across? Because I can't beat Pete. So it came up with the guy and he'd done it in 65 days, I think it was. So I was like, okay, that gives me a framework. I think it was like, to beat it, I had to do 40-something miles a day. So I was like, all right, I'm going to beat that.

36:48and then this guy Will Cockrell we can say his name whatever he's been in loads of shit he basically DM'd me saying I've seen you've announced your challenge or whatever based on your running history and your Strava and whatever those websites are and you can see my results I think you should aim to do it in 75 days I was like what? thanks Will I was like yeah thanks for your advice like you can see from just data what I'm actually going to be able to achieve. So I just ignored it. And then the more I ignored him, the more it pissed him off. So the more irate his messages got, he'd DM or, yeah, DM or email like people in my crew, people that were sponsoring it saying like, this is going to be a fraudulent thing.

37:34He can't do it. And then, yeah, there was all these blogs that got started by him and his little mates. And it ended with him coming. Well, it hasn't ended because he's still chatting, I guess. But he came out to Oklahoma, and he was on this mission to expose that Wilgu just cheating. So when he first arrived, I was obviously pissed off because he tried to infiltrate all these different things. My crew were getting annoyed about it. There was some press stuff coming out of how do we answer these questions that are being raised. And I'm like, when you're out there doing this shit, you really have a very small fucking amount of appetite for bullshit.

38:15So you're kind of teetering on the edge at all points. He turned up. So initially, I just wanted to fill him in, to be quite honest. I didn't. I just asked him one very simple question. I said, look, you're here now, whatever. It's like, when you see me take every step for however long you're here, are you then going to go back and say, actually, he is doing it. He has done it and like drop it. He didn't even answer me. So then he was there for like four days. driving like a mile ahead. He got his fucking little stopwatch out. He'd run back towards me. And then whenever I got close, he'd run back to his car and fuck off again.

38:52So I'm like, what was the point in that exercise other than you've disproved yourself? But because he'd put so much time, effort and obviously finances into it, I think he said something along the lines of, yes, he was doing the challenge when I was there. But now look at his data and now I've left. So you can't win. Also, it's a good story, right? We get to talk about it now, however many years on, and it will continue to come up because I guess unless you live stream something, like the burden of proof is always going to get bigger and bigger. Back in the day, you didn't even have a tracker on you.

39:28People just did it and say they did. Who knows if any of these records are real? Exactly. Well, ours are, of course. I mean, before Data. but yeah like I also it's just like people are giving something a crack and all I'm always raising money for cancer charities and like I told him at some point like I was like just run I was like run with me for a bit after a while I kind of dropped it I was like do you want a cup of tea he's never never accepted anything probably thought I'd poison it um but I just I had like I was like look man to man I was like I'm just dropping everything you said I was like do you do you realize why I, why I do these runs and like my history is like, yeah, your mom died.

40:10And I'm like, okay, you're just, you're not, you're not going to get it. Are you? If I'm saying, if I'm cheating doing these things and I'm using my mom as like the, the storyline, the reason I got into it, I'm basically using her death to profit or, uh, claim doing, doing great things, which is fucking disgusting. That make, that would make me a fucking the devil. it's just not on and he didn't get it well listen if it's any consolation I think that you're in this for the right reasons and I appreciate the efforts that you put into your world records two more questions I've got for you what's your worst habit what is something that you do that you know you shouldn't do I mean let me just get my scroll out do we have another hour unroll the scroll No, I think I'm just like, I try and tell myself the story that basically everything I do in life is pretty extreme.

41:10So if I'm drinking or partying, I'm partying to extreme. But I think that all fills the same bucket of when I then channel it towards running or doing something in business, I can get like hyper focused on it. So drinking, I love drinking. I'll never quit drinking. The way I'd summarize it, have you seen the clip of Bert Kreischer? I will never quit drinking. the way he says he wants to be healthy enough so that he can continue getting pissed exactly that's pretty much how i live my life yeah drinking for me is a great thing i love cigarettes but i don't really do them anymore i mean i'm twitching because my vellos are over there and i'd love to put one up there right now so yeah i'd say i'd say that as like um a way of living so you do actually smoke though because you you have cigarettes at the end of each day or at the end of marathons and stuff but i always kind of felt that that was showmanship well just something fun that you did right just as part of your like image and vibe i didn't realize you were an actual smoker yeah i go through phases and i'll often get do velo so i can stop smoking and then i'll do smoking so i can stop velo and it's just a constant cycle basically nicotine has me in a chokehold you like nicotine i like nicotine um and yeah like drinking i have to say as somebody that was sober for like three years who now drinks a bit.

42:28I have a very similar view to you with drinking. Like drinking is fun. Like I think we all know that drinking sucks, but it's actually, but it's fun. Like it's unhealthy, but it is great. I don't drink very often, but when I do, I really enjoy it. Like I like it a lot. You know, I do. It's something that is interesting to me. And actually I had a conversation with my wife about this because I take long breaks from it. and she said to me the other day she was like do you think you'll ever just be like completely sober and I was like no I don't want to be completely sober to be honest also I say I take them to the extreme but other than nicotine like I never feel like I need a drink my dad drinks a lot but he's like he would never be like he'd never wake up in the morning and be like oh I need a fucking screwdriver or whatever I think it's sort of part of living a full life I've gone through stages of being like trying to be so optimal that you end up feeling like you're not a human being.

43:30If I go months and months and months eating super clean, training perfectly, not drinking any alcohol, not having a drag of a cigarette on holiday, just everything just completely perfect, you become quite mechanical. And you lose a sense of just general enjoyment in stuff. You become quite boring. My wife accuses me of being boring when I'm like that. She's the one. Have a drink. Here you go. Here you go. Have an orange juice. Yeah, yeah. Have this orange juice. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But it is her. And then it's her who says, like, okay, you can stop now. Pull the plug. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's enough now.

44:09Yeah. I think it's important to live a balanced life. I find things in balance nice. You know, all good to dial into something, like dial into some goal, achieve the goal, let loose a bit. you know it's part of living isn't it exactly that's for me it's like I I'm acutely aware that life can be taken away from you at any point given my own experience so I never want to I never want to lose the feeling of like doing new things enjoying every moment as best I can whilst also having these extreme goals and achieving them yes I could be a better athlete if I trained 12 months a year or whatever 11 months a year and really hyper focused like I don't know what how much better I could be.

44:51But then I also tried to do this at the start of the year, the whole sobriety thing, and I totally lost the plot. And then I started drinking, then performed better. So I think we know what makes us tick. Like I say, I guess I'm technically a professional, but I'm pretty unprofessional. I'm an unprofessional professional. I got called a shit pro the other day. Yeah, no, I'd take that. I was delighted. I would accept it. And then I'd be like, do you want to go running for fucking 20 days straight, I'll eat you up and I'll drink beers along the way. Delish, lovely. Last thing, what shoes were you wearing for your London Marathon PB?

45:26I was wearing those Adidas ones, the ones that Saway wore. Really? Yeah, I was lucky enough. Why the fuck did you get them? I was lucky enough, one of the guys from Adidas, he was like, oh, you're doing the London Marathon? And then invited me down to the event where they had them and he was like, oh, there's a certain amount of pairs, so we'll try and get you one. Then he did. that must be why I ran 247 otherwise I'll pay the 450 mate I couldn't care I just want a pair are they not out now? I don't think so I think they are but you can't get them maybe I'm wrong last time I checked I couldn't get any I'm a UK10 you can borrow mine hey so am I they might be battered but that's alright I'll take them second hand that's good enough for me thanks so much for coming in mate it's been a pleasure pleasure it was fun

46:15Thank you.

46:43plus eight vitamins and nutrients. Whether you're traveling, exercising, or podcasting, the best business news ever, Liquid IV makes it easy to stay hydrated wherever life takes you. So shop now at liquidiv.com. Liquid IV hydration that goes wherever life takes you. At QVC, fall shopping is more than just checking out. It's discovering the brands you love across beauty, fashion, home, and culinary, all in one place. Whether you're getting ready for crisp mornings, cozy nights or everyday moments qvc has what you need for the season ahead with brands like laura geller philosophy ninja and so many more shop now at qvc.com saturday september 26th two of combat sports most dangerous strikers collide bare knuckle liverpool's own darren the gorilla till goes to war with cuban powerhouse yoel soldier god romero plus the bare knuckle middle win championship of the world is on the line when the reigning champ dave the redneck mundell defends against undefeated british challenger jack the meat cleaver colon bkfc 94 till verse