Mary McCarthy Debunks Over-Training Rumours, Stress Fracture Accident and Online Critique

0:02Do I look like Mr. Broby in this jacket? Is it cool? You didn't until you mentioned it. Do I look like a marshmallow? No, that's going to be an intro to the video. Welcome Mary McCarthy. Thank you. Thanks for having me. It's a great pleasure. We're big fans of yours in here. Your first ever marathon, you ran a 303. Yeah, 30303. 30303, non-professional runner. Where were you at in your life at that time? And what drew you to running? So I've been running now for nearly 20 years. So I started running when I was eight. So my first marathon, obviously, was my first competitive marathon race, but it was like my 100th competitive race.

0:50so I ran that marathon that period of my life because I basically came out of competitive running from the age of eight primary school secondary school university came to London and was like what does running mean to someone who's not in like an athletics club and competitive space and I found a new circle of friends and they all signed up to do Valencia marathon and I was like a marathon is a crazy thing to do because I've been running for so long but I've been running like 3k on track or like cross country or like we didn't even we weren't even really allowed to road race growing up because it was like deemed bad on your bones so I'd never I didn't like one 10k race they were like we're doing Valencia marathon I was like that's a crazy thing to do and I was like signed up to the ballot got in and I was like should I do it and they were all like yeah and I trained with like a group of friends to do my first marathon and then I just kind of like I guess I just fell into running the marathon because everyone that was friends with at the time was like training for it and it was just like the next thing that our like social group was doing what drew you to running when you were so young when you were eight did somebody in your family run or was it a friendship thing?

1:50My dad ran. So my dad was doing like, so I grew up swimming and then my dad was a runner. Grew up swimming. Yeah, you're going to know, so a little hand movement. Just for the record, we've got hands, we grew up swimming with hands. My dad did a half marathon and was like, I don't, I obviously don't remember the conversation because I was eight, but he obviously was like, you should do the fun run. So I did the fun run with him, which was probably a kilometer came third and met jessica ennis and then the next weekend he was like i think you should do the primary school cross-country proceeded to win by like five minutes or something and then i guess i just fell into it from that because he was like oh this is clearly something you're good at and then i literally never looked back just ran for the rest of my life i love the way you were just that much better than other kids and didn't even know it i think also because how many kids are training like five six times a week in year three because I was swimming so much so I probably had such an like cardiovascular base that when I got put into a cross-country field I was just like it's interesting that to consider that swimming would be that helpful to running yeah I find uh cycling quite helpful to running yeah I don't cycle much but I notice that when I do cycle that it kind of carries a bit helps yeah into into running most the people I know now they're like especially like women that are like pretty decent athletes a lot of them have come from a background of swimming because I think it sets you up for this like mindset and base that like carries you forward for so much like when I was growing up when I was a little bit older like year five year six year seven year eight like I was racing cross-country and I was like best in the county kind of level.

3:32I swam all week and raced cross country the weekend. So I wouldn't run apart from when I raced. And I was completely fine. Well, an interesting training tip. If you want to get better at running, get yourself to a pool. Yeah, see, just do training, just swim for a month and then race a 10k at the end of the month and see what happens. Can you break down a typical training week? Like obviously you're coming back from injury. Why don't we, why don't we go back to when you're at your peak yeah what what did like a full training week yeah training peak week of marathon training would look like easy run monday 15k not wanting to start the week with a bang no oh because i look well i'll get to why tuesday session like big marathon session somewhere between like 15-20k volume.

4:21Easy Wednesday. Is that at a marathon pace? Yeah. But with the odd bit of tempo, odd break. Yeah, yeah. Sets of 4k, 5k? Yeah. Tuesday you're probably looking at like maybe like 3 to 4k reps. Maybe like 3k times 6. Would be a big session. Wednesday easy again. Thursday will chop and change sometimes easy again but sometimes like maybe a tempo. Maybe like a progressive run. But like I got into quite a nice habit and routine of doing one session and one hard run a week. Friday, easy run. Saturday, long run. So that we're talking like if it's peak week, 30 to 35K. And then that's like a marathon session of whatever and then Sunday rest.

5:08Okay. And I like doing it that way because I do like my Saturday session, early Saturday morning, and then I will genuinely rest for the whole. So I feel like I get almost two days of rest. and then I come back in with an easy run. What do you... Oh, and then I would also do my S &C and potentially... What's S &C? Strength and conditioning. I was about to say, do you do any gym work? Gym, I try normally Tuesday or Wednesday. Tuesday, if it's... I like to do on a Tuesday because I do it on the same day as a session, so I just completely fuck myself up. Because I'm like, if I'm fucked, I might as well do my gym session.

5:39So Wednesday, I'm like so bad that I'm just like crawling through my run. Instead of doing my easy run and then doing my session and then doing my strength on it Wednesday afternoon and being worried about waking up Thursday with doms so I'd do it all on a Tuesday and then Friday I'd either maybe do a Pilates or a swim. Was it Bizarre magazine or what was the magazine that said that you set unrealistic goals for training? Oh there's been quite a few off the back of my stress fracture I got a lot of press on over training and my response to that is everyone must do the training that they need to do and also like no one you got like you it's kind of like when people comment on other people's relationships I was like never comment on someone else's relationship because you're not behind the closed doors you can't comment on other athletes training because you don't know them unless you genuinely have known them since being a child like these these magazines are commenting on me as an influencer and I was like you don't know I've been running since I was eight so I've been doing 60 mile weeks since I was 14 so politely I'm not overtraining for myself yes that might be overtraining for the average person who's watching my videos correct but I do think you have a level of like you need to watch what you're in like what you're taking in online doesn't mean that you should do that yeah no I think that's uh that's a fair way of looking at the internet yeah and like you would never say that Alfie Manthorpe but Kerchoge is overtraining no and so like why would you say that someone who else is you're like trying to reach a goal of sub 245 you're doing exactly the training you need to be in a position to stand on race day and run 245 that's not over training that's exactly what you should be doing and i think there's like a margin for injury in every person who's running just from the fact that it's running and you're hitting tarmac potentially for like seven hours a week i think it's also a lack of understanding from when the people just look at you know a heavy training schedule and they just think well I couldn't do that so I'm just gonna critique it and yeah and also I can imagine if you looked at my general Instagram or Strava you'd probably think Jesus she's over training but as for someone who like goes for a 5k once a week I can kind of understand why you would be thinking that is too much training but I think that is just from a lack of education in the sport and what you're trying to achieve what is your 5k time 16.57 that's pretty good what what's yours not that uh no so i i in order to achieve my goal for the year uh which is a sub 245 marathon i i would like to think that i'd get comfortable around like a 17 20 yeah but but you know i've not i've not done that also rate like i do think racing like people underestimate like if you've grown up racing the knowledge you gain from like not even the speed or like the times you get but from understanding how to race it's very different to just being fit yeah in an ideal world yeah like like the way i would see a 5k would be say say your say your goal is a 1730 which is 330 average pace yeah i would love to start at like 345 yeah and then just get a k done that's how i run marathons yeah is it yeah that's really interesting i'd try and get a k down and then and then i'd kind of cruise down you know in five second increments and then try and run the last like 1500 meters at like a 315 yeah or something would be my that's the dream scenario but it's just not ever happened yeah well i ran my 5k pb i was gutted that i didn't actually ever get a race in because i just hugo fry paced me for it and it was generally a random thursday like my mom had been in london i'd been training all week i was like i'm just gonna run it like i want to do something in december that's like i hadn't got when he raised his plan, I was like, I'm just going to do a 5k PB, see what, like, I was obviously in pretty good shape.

9:30I was like, I'm going to see what I can do. We set out at a three minute K. And he was like, come on. I was like, I'm sprinting, like I'm sprinting. And then I just genuinely held on for my dear life. And what happens? Is this when you ran 1650? Yeah. And so, so you've lost a fair amount of pace from the three minute K. yeah I think the k's in general were actually not the splits weren't actually crazy difference but the first like 200 meters was like a three minute pace okay and I was like we don't need to do this and also like the way he paced me I keep saying I was like next time you pace me can you know like the whole point of pacing is that you're like you're on someone's shoulder so you're kind of like gaining the fact that you're gaining the fact that you're like on their tail yeah he was just five meters ahead the whole time I was like I probably would have run so much quicker if you'd actually been there on me.

10:19And he was like...

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13:09It's a ghastly little distance, really. It is, yeah. Because it's so lactic-y and horrible. I just got asked if I wanted to do Sockany 10K in like six weeks. And I was like, the idea of like standing on a start line and like aiming to do like sub 36 minutes for a 10K in six weeks. I was like, I don't know if I want to do that. But you can do sub 36 now. Yeah, my PB, well, no, my PB, again, was off the, I had a double race weekend. So I raced Liverpool Cross, which is like European qualifiers for cross country. And then I had a, like, and, like, basically work. Like, I had, like, work to do with ASOS for this Nike 10K.

13:44And I was like, yeah, I'll just do it for work. Rocked up and ended up running 36.18. And that was, like, my new PB. And I was like, again, like, I need to, like, I should have ran a genuine race at that point because I would have been able to go so much quicker. it was like that race was in the XL, like laps of inside. So I was like, if I was to do Sockney, I'd like to think I could go quicker than that. But I don't know if I can in six weeks. So just before we move off the kind of shorter distance stuff and move more into marathon space and just, you know, general running chat. In an ideal world, how would you pace a 5k?

14:20Well, I was actually talking to my friend about this this morning, because she's doing a 5k in like a month or so and she wants to do sub 20 which obviously is a big goal so four minute k's average four minute k's so let's do that use that as an example yeah and i was saying to i was like i think the perfect way to run that which is probably how i wouldn't run any other race but i think purely because of 5k is short and you get those seconds mean so much is you you will i i would personally if i was to pace i would want to go out like 358s like i wouldn't go like let's go at 405s and bring it down, I think you do want to bank a bit of time because realistically, halfway through a 5k, you're going to be in Hell City anyway.

15:01So I think you want to be like, I think you want to get to 2.5k and be like, okay, I've banked. I love the way you were just talking about Hell City there, like everyone knows what that is. Yeah, obviously. You're going to be in Hell City anyway. You're going to be there, so you might as well be there with like four to five seconds of gain. like you're probably also going to drop a second or two somewhere so how so you you would run the the kind of faster split for how long a couple of hundred meters type thing no i'd go out and be like first 2k like let's run 358s okay but like not 350s i think that's the thing with 5k you have to be so hot on the pace like you don't want to be doing a 355 like you want to be doing a 358 and like holding that for as basically as long as you can because then she'd be able to come like a nine feet so you would just run it flat yeah you wouldn't you wouldn't try and negative split it or anything I maybe maybe like maybe a fast fast like 500 metres then a little negative split or no just a straight flat like race a race pace I'd go out like if you want to do a sub 20 like 358 358 358 and then be like okay when you've got 400 metres to go just like literally every single thing you've got I just don't think that I can do that like I'm just not sure that I just don't think I like.

16:18If I was going for a 1730. Would you rather negative split it? I think for me, going out at a pace, even just for like 800 meters, where I know that I've got like four more gears is beneficial to me. To the mindset. Because I just think, say if I'm going for a 1730 and I go out at 330s, I'm not sure I can hold 330 for 5K. I'm not sure I have that. maybe I do I just don't think it's been a long time since I've raced 5k so for all I know I'm talking crap but maybe in the hindsight but I think if I did even if you did 3.45 for a k and then literally just drop the hammer to 3.30 for 3k and then the 2k just go yeah that's just being scared of the distance though because you're just saying well I'm happy to be doing that for 4k but not 5k yeah no I am frightened I'm frightened I hate it it's the worst distance you'd rather run 325 for 4k than 330 for 5k yeah yeah yeah i would i don't know what it is it is scary yeah well it's because it's really fast yeah so it's really scary to be like i'm gonna attempt like generally when hugo was like we're gonna have to hold 320 322s or whatever it was i was like 322 for 5k is crazy i went out trying to do like my first my first attempt at a fast 5k i think i around like 1816 or something like that.

17:44And since then I've ran, you know, around the 18 mark. I think I have broken 18. I'm not trying to sound cool. I think I have done like a 1755 somewhere. On Strava somewhere. I'll have a look on Strava somewhere. Yeah, yeah, yeah. With a coffee between reps. But I'll have a look. But I'm around that. But I set out one day trying to run a 1730 just off the bat when I just wasn't ready for it. And I went out at like 320s. Yeah. And that was just a... And it was a horrible, horrible day. It was just a really shit idea. And the whole thing failed after like 300 metres. I was just like, I'd be lucky to finish this.

18:19Too fair. When I did mine in December, it was for a video. And I genuinely was like, let's do it. Because if I die halfway through, it's a great video. Do you know what I mean? Like if I completely... DNF. Yeah. Well, I was never going to DNF. But it's like, if I completely fall off the trail and end up running like 1830, at least I've like blown up. God, that'd be shocking, wouldn't it? That'd be embarrassing. Yeah, it would be embarrassing. I've seen videos where people like say that they're DNFing a 5k and I do think like you know the least you can do is just get around run around yeah it's a 5k DNFing a marathon is one thing when you've got like 16k left to go and your ankle's grown up DNFing a 5k is not really a thing I also do remember like Struggle City in that 5k and Hugo what's the difference between Hell City and Struggle City is on its way to Hell City Hell's worse Struggle City is like we're struggling But Hell City is like we have struggled You're seeing stars in your eyes You're about to pass out And I remember Hugo being like you've literally got 2k to go And also when you're running that quick it's like 6-7 minutes It's horrendous So when your legs are philolactic and you're completely blown to hell and you've got 2k to go that may as well be like 10k It's horrible I remember checking my watch and being like stop checking your watch Yeah, every 10 metres.

19:40Yeah. Oh, my God. What do you think it is about the 5K? Because let's be honest, most people hate it. Like, unless you are someone that recreationally just runs 5K, like my wife, for example, like, will just run 5K in the park. The distance go out and do, yeah. In, you know, she does it in 20-odd, 25, 26, 27 minutes, whatever, half an hour. You know, whatever. But she'll go out and she'll plod her 5K. and you know so like i'm i'm speaking about racing 5k most people hate it yeah right like i haven't found anyone who loves racing the 5k um god just like it's genuinely making me feel like it is it's crap i've got one on saturday oh you have on saturday yeah i think i i do think it's a bit of an ego race yeah it's a badge it's yeah it's like what's your 5k time yeah because it's like it it's the distance that like if we're all everyone in the world's running marathons now right it's the one distance where you can kind of be like i'm going to show you how fast i actually am like no one's doing anything shorter than a 5k now like no one's going to like go and run an 800 meters on the track because like regard like a 210 800 is completely relevant to most people but to everybody even if you don't run for example your wife you could say my pb to and she'd be like, that was quite quick.

21:02But without having any knowledge of the sport at all. If you were to say to my wife, though, you know, I run a 14.50 or a 17, that's the same thing, right? Yeah, true. Right, like to her, anything under, you know, call it 19 is alien territory. Yeah. I do think it is just a bit of an ego thing to be like... I'm just catching a few straight. I'm not saying she doesn't know the difference between the numbers. She can tell that one number's bigger than the other. She doesn't understand the difference between a 17 and a 1730. Yeah, it's like... The difference between the training, or the athlete, or the pace, or any of that.

21:41Well, yeah, I mean, you know, the difference between, you know, to me, the difference between a 1720 and a 1740 is massive. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's literally like, it's more than, it's five seconds. It's four seconds. four seconds per kilometer which is massive right in a 5k so i i understand that getting from one to the other is probably like a sustained kind of two months or more yeah yeah yeah and that's someone who's like probably taking it quite seriously yeah yeah so you know i think it's um yeah anyway um some people care more than others i guess but it's uh it's like when like some of my mates now are like trying to break 16 i'm like that is so fast yeah steve steven like wants me down at 1650 by the end of the year like i was just like steven i i i think i'm actually not sure that that's like on the cards i think i'd prefer the 245 marathon i think when i ran as an experience yeah yeah yeah i think when i ran my 1656 whatever it was i was in shape like a 245 like sub 245 shape.

22:46So I think that does kind of correlate. Yeah. That's probably why. It's just like, that's like, that's probably flat out for me. Yeah, that was flat out for me though. But I ran 250 in Chicago like six weeks prior. And then I just ran it like in the middle of a run on a random Thursday at like two o 'clock in Bassey Park. So I do think it'd be nice for you to like try and do the, do the sub 245 and then just be like, right, I'm going to do that. It never kind of comes when you want it to come though. No. Oh yeah, I think if I'd gone on like race, I probably would have liked. Some days, like, I'll just be doing a random training session and I'll feel like, I could just do it now, you know, bash.

23:22And like, just start the watch. But no, unfortunately, like, well, it would count, I suppose. Maybe we should race. You and I? Yeah. I'm happy to do that. 5K. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think by the sounds of things, you're going to smoke me, but that's okay. No, but also I'm coming off the back of India and you're trying to go for a 2.45. Okay. Which is also my marathon goal. oh so what's your marathon PB? 250 oh okay yeah okay I was training for a sub 245 in Tokyo this year okay and I was definitely in shape to do that and then I got injured I was in Tokyo oh were you? did you run it? I ran 257 oh I was there cheering because I had a bib but couldn't do it is it somewhere?

24:07oh it's there shit medal yeah that's a trainer I was actually no genuinely I was like I remember they put it around my neck and like obviously and it's a world major I realised 30k 35k into the race I was like oh my god like I've split these 5k's like perfectly with my friends this is the best day ever like I'm not even exhausted yet like it was it was kind of like a weird like it was just the perfect race and in my mind I was like I'm going to carry this through to the end I'm going to run a 254.50 or something and I kind of I'd slept for an hour the night before and like everything was just but everything came together and it was literally just like I was listening to a playlist that I'd never listened to before that was the best playlist ever.

24:51Like so literally every song that came on I was like what? Like it was the best thing ever. I literally, and yeah just all of a sudden slowed down a bit but like knew that I had tons of time and yeah then they slapped that on me and I thought what a load of shit. Oh no. I thought this is not acceptable. I ran Cologne Marathon which is the nichest race in the world for a brand like two years ago, I was like, why am I in Cologne and why am I running a marathon? Genuinely not one person spectating. Didn't have anyone watching me at all. I had like the worst part of my whole life. It's just like, you know, you just like run around and you're like, this whole thing is just rubbish.

25:27That was my Berlin. Yeah, I was like, but at least it's a major. Like I was like running around Cologne in Germany. Like, I hate this. In Germany. I was like, no one's even here to spectate. I didn't get one singular photo or video of me from the whole race because no one was watching. And I finished, they put a wooden necklace around my neck. I thought, surely not. No, no. And the thing afterwards, you know, when you go past and you get like bananas and like you get like a bag, there was carrots and apples. I thought, I'm going home. That's a good medal. That is a good medal. Last year's London, this year's London.

26:02But like, yeah, I have to say, I was pretty, I thought, ah, that they could have done better. Yeah, it's also tiny. Yeah, a little thing. and also just like, just not, anyway, I don't mean to be unappreciative. No. It was, it's great to get a medal, great to achieve the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's also a really cool one to do. It's great. I was really gutted I couldn't do it because I was like, I'm in Tokyo. When are you trying for 245? Probably not this year. Just because of the back of the stress fracture, I probably won't. Valencia. I know. Come on. I'm doing, I think I'm going to do a world major.

26:36I haven't actually said it online which one I'm going to do. Okay. But I think I'm going to do a slow, which is really obvious which one I'll do, a slower world major at the end of the year. So I don't think it's like, I don't know, maybe I will. Maybe I'll surprise myself. But I think probably London 2027. Why is it that people pull PBs out in London, in your opinion? Because it's quite, it's weird. It's like hilly and quite warm. And it's like not fast. Yeah. I personally have hated every single London man.

27:12I've never enjoyed London Marathon like the general race is obviously very enjoyable like I've never like understood my community and like the community I've built like when running a marathon like I think that's beautiful and like that's really cool but like race as an athlete I've always had a horrible time but I hope but also I think I've like I had a friend my best friend right this year had a horrible time so I think it's kind of like a bit hit and miss I think you can either like completely love London, enjoy it, and it's like the best thing ever, or you just like hate it. Yeah. But I also think like as it's like our home turf marathon, I think it gives you an extra like oomph to do well.

27:49Like my mate this year ran like an eight minute PB. Yeah. And like completely like just like was like euphoric day. Yeah, it's a weird one. I find that negative headspace is very easy to fall into for some reason in London. Yeah. Tokyo was just like an extraordinary experience in that I was literally focused on like the 5k split that I was in. And that's it. I had no idea where I was. Couldn't have cared less about like the... It was literally like, are you going to hold a 406 for this 5k? I have interest. Do you have that like as a 5k split on your watch? I split it myself on the course. But your watch is just like your watch face.

28:34and then you're like, oh, I'm going to aim for like 21 minutes when every 5K or whatever. Yeah, so 20 minute, 50 second 5Ks or something like that. But you'll just look at it and add that up. Do you know because some people have it like on their watch. Oh, you'll split it, okay? I'll lap it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So like, but not, why are you laughing? I'm just wondering. Okay, so the biggest number you'll ever see is 499 on my watch. So I'll never see 30K or 28K. Yeah, that's why I'm asking you whether it says like 25k and you're like lap or if it's like... No, no, no. Yeah, so I'll... Yeah, you're lapping or go back to zero.

29:14When I'm around like 4.5k, I'll just keep an eye out for the 5k marker and then I'll lap a new lap. And that will give me a fresh time that I'm running to. And so I'm only ever running 5k in my mind, eight and a half times with a 200 meter finisher. I was doing that in London quite successfully this year. and I was running with a much faster group than me who were running 253, 254 type thing. And I was really comfortable for most of it. And like just past halfway, I thought like, I might actually speed up a bit. Like genuinely, I just felt great. And then I was lapping away and like not a care in the world.

29:48And then some guy, literally, it was just before halfway, sorry. Some guy literally like ran past me and we had like a quick exchange. And he was like, only 26K left. and I was just like, I fucking hate you. I literally was like... That's a horrible thing to say. No, no, I know, I know, because I was just enjoying my little moments of 5K. You were in your 5K. I was in my little 5Ks. You were at 3.5K. Yeah, I've only got 1 ,500 meters left, you know, and then, oh, I've got 5K. And then, like, I would not pay attention to the first, like, half of the rep. So new rep, pay attention to something else, look down, like, oh, I've got 2K left.

30:26Yeah, yeah, yeah. And do that eight times. That's just my little vibe. Yeah. knowing that I've got 28k left or whatever the hell this bloke shouted at me I was literally like oh I shouldn't be running this fast I should slow down yeah like freak out because you've got so far to go yeah and I just like literally it bothered me for about 5k I was just like I don't like that no I don't like you I don't know you but I don't like you I don't know you and I don't know if you did that intentionally but I don't like it no I'm not loving it anymore I was angry yeah and it threw me off completely like I was just like oh my god I have got ages left to go They're like, I'm not even halfway.

30:59In my head, like, marathon, you're just warming up for 30k, and then it's a 12k race. Oh, I like it. Yeah. Just warm up, warm up, warm up. I'm just telling myself I'm running down to Platy Park. Do you split it at all? No. You don't split it? No. So when you look down at your watch, you see, like, I've done 15k. I've got, like, 28 left. Yeah. That's grim, though. I quite like the mental maths of it, though. Oh, I don't. I quite like it because it just attracts me. So I'll be like... So you're doing the maths? I'll be like, 16k, 26, 26. 14k I've got 28 left yeah and I'll like do the mental mass and it'll just like kill a bit of time god and then I'll just look at the like the split what split though you said you don't split it no like as in like the average pace it'll be like 4 or 8 and I'll be like oh I need to speed up a bit do you know what I find odd like the difference in some watches yeah I think that's interesting so I bought a new watch yesterday just because my I'm still with Coros well I say I'm with Coros I'm not sponsored by them or anything I've just always used Coros that was a good plug for them yeah alright well you can if you want I'd take cash and like I began to notice that I'd go running with my pals and they'd just have like completely different data to mine and I'd just be like okay and like mine would be quite a lot sometimes it'd be way faster and sometimes it'd be way slower and I'd be like I'd be pretty interested in knowing what my actual pace is yeah like why yours is different to mine yeah yeah so I bought a new one that pace 4 that's just come out which is just super simple little thin I literally went into the shop I was like I want something that determines distance and pace and that's it old school watch I don't give a shit about anything else doesn't need a light or anything I know where I am time distance pace good that's it and they said this is this is the dog's bollocks the bee's knees of watches apparently it is quite I was showing my friends the other day like running watches back in like back in I don't know it'll have been like 2012 I used to have a Tom Tom a Tom what like the cars have Yeah.

32:56What, like you'd carry your car one? No, like, do you remember like everyone had like, like before... Car, GPS. Before, yeah. Me just like this. Do you remember like before cars had like built-in satin apps, you'd like stick your... TomTom. TomTom to the screen. Yeah, no, so I'm wondering if you took that with you. Yeah, no, TomTom had a running watch. Oh, did they? Like Garmin have... 2012. Yeah, it was probably around there. And do you know how like Garmin is obviously owned by like, they do like all the shipping, like GPS and stuff like that. It's like TomTom obviously were like trying to branch out to like sport and fitness watches.

33:27And I had a TomTom watch. Wow. And it was crazy and it was huge. But it did that. I'm trying to think what I was up to in 2012. I was not running. I'll tell you that. 2012, yeah, I was running. I was running under track at school. Was it a TomTom runner? Is that what it was called? Maybe. If you showed me a photo of it, I'd be able to approve the... It was red. And it had this massive button that you'd move between the screens and screens. It literally was pace, distance, time. That's all you need, mate. Yes. it was that in red look at that that's all you need it doesn't look that different run, cycle, swim, treadmill bash that's perfect I've got mine asking me I got really frustrated with mine the other day because I was this is my formal one I was trying to connect it to my polar H10 heart rate thing and literally like I was going through the things and it was like fly fishing I'm like who is corossing a fly fish yeah like genuinely I was like what is this bouldering fly fishing like go-karting it's like it's a fucking running watch isn't it?

34:29yeah I have that sometimes I'll go in the sauna and put it on meditation do you? and it'll go do you meditate in the sauna? no no you just why don't you set it to sauna? I don't think it's got a sauna setting Whoop does oh there we go another plug yeah well we are actually sponsored by Whoop so that one makes sense ours is a good one another plug so when you say you warm up for 30k and then race to 12k I'm assuming you don't kind of change much about your pacing. That's just a mental thing. Or you do go fast. Do you negative split the race? Yeah. Do you? All my PBs have been negative split. In the marathon?

35:07Yeah. You're an animal, mate. How are you doing that? Honestly, I just don't get it. I just get heavier and more tired as the race goes on. To be fair, like, the two ones I've done that, like, aggressively with was Valencia, which was my first marathon, which I think purely was just, like, naivety of the distance. I was like kind of went in and was like I'd kind of like to run 315 because at the time it was championship time for London for women and I went out and I was like running running running 315 was championship time for London women yeah really yeah wow I always just see women as like just as fast as men really like in in like in the in the um non-elite levels yeah well the championship time for women is a lot slower comparably to men because when they first created it they wanted to have a more gender split maybe that's just because i know so many women that are faster than me so you think everyone's yeah i run with like i run like i run with rose harvey yeah yeah she's really fast she's well she's on the leap yeah exactly no so that maybe that's just my my skew yeah but i remember getting to 30k of valencia marathon and being like god i feel completely fine i'm being like first marathon i've got 10k because in my head i just like gaslight the last 2k they didn't exist yeah so i was like i've got 10k i genuinely remember just sprinting and being like if i can if i can run like 350s for the next 10k i can do sub three but i was probably running like like four 15s for the 30k i have a feeling you're gonna smoke me in this 245 thing i've never ran a k at 350 in any marathon my last 10k for valencia was like my first marathon and my last 10k was like 39 yeah because I was just like sprinting and I remember just being like I need to go as quick as I physically can to get to as close as three hours as I can but obviously that's that's pretty good and then I did the same with Chicago I remember like I guess it wasn't really planned I didn't even really plan to run a PB in Chicago because I'd ran Sydney four weeks before I ran 255 in Sydney two weeks before so I went into Chicago and I was like, bit of fun, just going to enjoy it.

37:11And then I was with my mate Alex and Anya and Schooner. Do you know Schooner? Yeah. I ran with him. He breezed past me in London. He's very, he's a good runner for the amount of beers. He's very tall. Yeah, he is. And we ran, he was like. Sorry, he's about the Schooner score. The Schooner score is a good runner, mate. I ran Chicago with him. So he was like, just run with us, just run with us. I was like, I'm not going to run with you, you're going too quick. And then we started and we ended up running with him. and I remember we were all kind of like chatting and we were like taking content like it was just kind of like fun and we got to 30k and Anja went I'm done and I thought they were both going to be like right at 30k we're going to pick it up and then I went to Alex I was like right okay like well then let's go and he was like So did Anja pull?

37:52Anja pulled back because she was like it wasn't a race for her she was just pacing us so she was like I'm like pulling back pace at 30k because she didn't want to like do too much and I said to Alex I was like let's go and he was like no and he said he had his headphones You know that song? It's been a long... And he said he just watched me just disappear into the distance. And I genuinely then, again, sprinted for 10k to get 250. Mate, it sounds like you've got loads left in your legs. I know, that's why I'm a bit, like, eager to... Why don't you just hammer the start of it? Why are you basically warming up for 30k?

38:24I know, and that's why I spoke to Anya at the start of Chicago. I was like, when do you, like, start racing in a marathon? She's like, 2k. I was like, I definitely haven't raced a marathon yet. It feels like you're wasting 28k. Yeah, of race. Yeah. And then I'm just like, hey. I think it's because I guess how you feel about the 5K, I'm genuinely petrified of blowing up. Like I'm always like, I'd rather do that and run fast than like get to a half marathon. My greatest fear with the marathon would be to try to do what you're doing. So like set off a bit slower than I need to, warm into it, like save myself for the end.

39:02and then like come 35k you're just bollocks anyway. Like that would be... That is the other part where you're like, you're running a marathon so either way at 35k you're going to be... I feel, and I've said this to Stephen as well, like my biggest concern is not holding like 353s for the race. I will hold whatever my marathon pace is supposed to be for a long time because we'll be prepared, right? Yeah.

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40:57my concern is that the wheels will come off at 35 36 37k as they always have like they've never ever stayed on like so they've always come off sometimes like a wall not hitting a wall just just just slow up a little bit so london uh london this time was different i took like 15k in the middle of just like having fun and then turned it back on so that's not true the wheels didn't come off this time but I did give myself like a rest yeah yeah well when Mr. Man said there's 26k to get you for well I literally just thought fuck off mate I'm gonna chill for a bit yeah all right fine I'm gonna chill yeah uh the the year before that like yeah similar thing like 35k I was running for 14s and then that dropped to like 440s yeah so like kind of bad wheel fall off yeah yeah Tokyo wheels came off a little bit.

41:48So like 35k at 406s. And then that dropped to like 418s. So not too bad. That's fine. Like, you know, like would have been a 255, ended up being a 257. So like, you know, it's not like Alfie Manthor wheels coming off in London. You know, where like literally he's losing like four minutes of 5k. Yeah, yeah. Or three minutes. I did that in London two years ago. I was like really badly injured. And I remember just getting out of Canary Wharf and being like, I think I might as well just walk. Yeah. It is funny. Like you almost like I have longed for the medical tent before. I've done medical tent.

42:25Have you? I've never been in the medical tent. But I have thought I would prefer to be in the medical tent. I have a funny story about medical tent after London. Than to pull up and like have to quit. Like I'd rather. Yeah. I'd rather like be extracted. Yeah. and be like how can I like it actually a genuine medical issue let me just be like oh like I wish I could have carried on but I woke up in the medical tent is way better than like oh I felt like quitting so I stopped yeah anyway my first London marathon I was straight into the medical tent your first one yeah over the cross line over the finish line first London first London marathon over the finish line doesn't count I'm talking about like mid race medical tent no I finished I was gonna finish I finished and collapsed and they were like I think she's overheating so they put me in a nice bath and carry me to the medical tent because you sprinted for 12k you should have probably just like probably just like done the splits that i was meant to do um what do you think separates uh like you know average to good to elite runners i think average to good probably mindset and like how much you want it and like to elite the same again but like talent as well where where do you sit in all that

43:47uh somewhere in the middle so good good runner yeah yeah i think i'm a good amateur yeah yeah yeah like a good like i feel like we sit like back in like old terms be like a good club runner You'd be like, oh, she's a good club runner. Yeah. Because like club runners to like runners is like, you're an actual runner. I think like 20 years ago, we'd be like really good runners. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Whereas like now we're kind of okay. Well, I'm certainly okay. You're much better than me. But I think that like... You're all right. Yeah, yeah, no. I think, yeah, I'm like an okay runner. Whereas you'd be like...

44:21Are you a kind of sub-elite runner? Not really quite yet. I'd say like when I describe it to people who don't like have any understanding of running, I'm like when you enter the London Marathon there's elite, there's championship, there's good for age and then there's masses and I'm championship What is male championship qualifying? Sub 240

44:43So a cheeky 239-59 has you and the championship starts Yeah For women it's sub 305 We might have to readjust targets That'd be cool wouldn't it? That'd be cool qualifying Is it the Champions League? no it's a championship pen okay the Champions League Champions League is Champions League London Marathon I don't know if you've heard yeah yeah I'm in the Champions League yeah for running yeah so it's like I'd like to say I'm sub-elite but sub-elite is like is that even a category? I think sub-elite for a woman is like sub-245 sub-240 somewhere around there okay sub-240 probably and I'm like aiming for sub I'm aiming for the 40s oh like a massive part of me wants to go for 239 59 now because you know i didn't know that yeah i didn't know that you see and like i'd still just be in good for age if i ran a 245 which i'm already in aren't i yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah what's your boy's your peevee what a shit category like honestly genuinely if london marathon listening to this like like you've got you've got elite you've got elite championship good for age also i think it's kind of crazy that good for age for boys now is like sub 250.

46:01Oh, I'm not even that then. Yeah, 257 is my PB. Oh, you're not good for age. I'm 37 years old though. Oh, you might have a different good for age. I think I have a different good for age because I'm actually good for my age. Yeah, because you're probably, because I think it's 35. I'm the literal definition of it. Good for age. Yeah, but good for age is savage because like if you're running sub 250, you're not good for age. What does it mean though? Because like, yeah, but what does it mean? Because it's not... It means technically they've done some calculations somewhere where they've got like all of the marathon times.

46:30But it has nothing to do with your age group though. So why is the word age good for age? No, because it does do with your age group because it gets slower as you get older. Oh yeah, okay. So maybe I am in. So my dad is good for age, but his PB is like three. Like if he ran a 325, he'd be good for age for London because he'd be another 65 plus. You're good for age, by the way. The first bracket is 18 to 39, which feels quite unfair. Fuck that. So you're not. What? I'm in a fucking category with a bunch of 18-year-olds. The men's is sub 252. So I'm not even good for age. You're not good for age.

47:01Well, I'm just general ballot entry then. What's Bulahoo good for age? Oh, ballot. Just ballot. The masses. Okay, listen. Okay, I vow to you guys to skip good for age completely, right? I'm going to go from ballot straight into the Champions League. Yeah, Champions League. Yeah, yeah. So basically I'm championship and then there's good for age and then there's you. Yeah, correct. Correct. Yeah, yeah. Hang on a second. Hang on. So, God, every single time we interview someone, we come up with things that we need to change, don't we? So, like, we had... I do think they need to change the good for age qualifying time because it is completely ridiculous.

47:46But hang on a second. Sub-338, that feels... What? Quite. Sub-338? Yeah. No, 238, 338. So, 18 to 39 women, sub-338, and men are sub-252. that's insane what yeah that is insane an hour faster yeah that's a joke sorry i mean i'm all for what happened to equality no but i think they did exactly the same thing for championship as they did for good for age but i do think they need to make it like i think also in the world we're living in now they need to make it a little bit i think women's good for age should be like sub 320 but also just in passing like what am i doing lumped in with a bunch of 18 year olds that's not fair yeah true it's kind of mad that it's 18 to 39 18 to 39 what 21 year age group so it goes 18 to 39 40 to 44 45 to 45 what what so it's four year increments up from that's insane what's the 40 to 44 what's the time 257 there you go well you haven't quite made that either you need to be subbed I'll obviously be faster than that by the time I get to 40 but the next London Marathon you wouldn't be able to enter even if you were 40 no but I'll like the next the next time the London Marathon comes around 2028 I'll be in the championship pen 2028 yeah I'll see you in the championship pen why 2028 because 2027 you've already missed no no no we'll be fine don't worry we've got some friends actually at the old London Marathon so yeah yeah we'll get it we'll get it oh what you mean to qualify for the championship yeah oh fucking hell well that gives me even longer I suppose yeah so 2028 I'll see in the championship pen yeah so hang on a sec so just for argument's sake if I get if I were to get a 239.59 in Valencia this year I'll qualify for the championship pen 2028 yeah sorry I mean I would be demanding a ticket for next year I think you would go to them and go come on lads I mean there's been tremendous progress here like what's one what's one more champion I've gone from the masses to championship you must see the effort I've put in I would email them I think and just say listen I have improved a lot and I'm 30 fucking 8 by this stage yeah we'll make the case as and when it's relevant send the email it may actually the email will be sent yeah even if you run 243 I think so is that are we certain that championship is and what does championship become for when you're 40 sorry last thing and then we'll carry on with you 57 no oh yeah oh god so i'll i'll be a i'll be a champion at some point yeah yeah yeah yeah and you start 10 meters behind the elites so you just stood there when they're announcing the elites you're like hey alexei all right keep joe game and then they start and you think you got and you go god i must go slowly because they're going so fast they look crazy when they start don't they Yeah, they're like, boom.

50:48Sebastian Saue. Yeah. And Kajelcha. And they're just like gliding. Wild stuff. Isn't it? Yeah, crazy. Your Alfie, your friend Alfie was very funny about them. He was explaining to the layman what their paces were compared to him. Well, I guess the easiest way to describe that is their 5K splits over and over again. They're like sub-15. Eight times. I just don't really understand it. No, it's kind of crazy. It's a tricky one. It's a tricky one to compute until you try and run their pace. How long do you reckon you could hold Sebastian Saway pace for at a track? Perfect conditions, warmed up. What was it?

51:30250 something? No, it's far faster than that. So like 251 is slightly over two hours. Oh yeah, of course. Bit faster than that. 249. But for the last 10k, I think, Alki said they dropped it to 241 or something. Yeah, they dropped it way down. How long? 200 metres? 200 metres. Yeah, maybe actually. It is rough. 200 metres. Do you reckon under any circumstances you could run a lap? Like one full lap? Like theoretical guns held to your head and you're not surviving if you don't do one lap? I don't think so. No, I don't think so. because that's like a 50, that's a sub 60 second lap. Can you not do that?

52:17Probably not, no. No. No. I don't know why I said it like I could. In fact, like, no. I said like, maybe not. Are you not able to do that? Wait, you can't do that word. That's pathetic. Do that every morning after you wake up. I can't either. Right, question three. How do you fuel all of this? What do you like to eat? I eat kind of anything. like i have like like a kind of like a farm animal or what do you mean like like a cow yes yes okay no like i nearly said like a pig because they eat everything and then i thought let's not call the guest a pig you know there's nothing like a pig the carrots and apples and clone are quite that's quite a pig diet that is quite a horsey piggy diet yeah no i'm like i'm very big on like i think also growing up running and running my dad i remember like we'd always do our long runs on the weekend and he kind of always drilled in this kind of like if you're running 10 miles you can eat whatever you want so I've kind of always had that mindset of like if I'm training to a certain extent I can kind of eat whatever I want yeah and I think like if you're especially as a woman you need to fuel so much that like it's better to overfuel than underfuel so I do eat a lot and I think like when people like are eating with me or like I'm with my girlfriends they'll be like are you like you actually like i do consume a lot of food a lot of carbs like i do eat like the boys that i train with because you kind of have to because i think that's like such a fine line between getting injured is if you don't consume enough like carbs around your training you you'd like you're just setting yourself up to get injured i literally love the feeling of knowing that you can just nuke like massive meals because i love food yeah so And it's just like, you know, even if you're like, you know, I'm probably running like 85k a week or something like that at the moment.

54:07Like at that level, like I'm happy to just like eat whatever. Whatever you want, whatever you want. Hungry all the time. Just like nuke food. No problem. It's lovely. I love that so much more. Like when I was injured and I wasn't like training that much. And I was like, I'm actually not even feeling hungry. I don't know if you've had that in an injury or like a period of time when you're not training. and I'm like I actually just want to move my body to a certain point so I actually like can feel hungry for my dinner whereas now I'm like every time I'm eating I'm like I'm hungry I literally blacked out the other day running like I was starving and I had a huge lunch and then went for a hard session and I was just like towards the end of it I was just like I ordered a pastor evangelist that chicken and bacon thing with all the cream and the mushrooms before the run no no no after I had it as like my post run like my medal at the end type of thing and like order it that's what you're thinking about yeah yeah yeah like it literally got me through to the point where you feel sick you've eaten so much and then like you wake up the following morning ready to eat again yeah like it's wild that's what I say I'm like I wake up every morning starving yeah like even if I wake up at half five I'm like going downstairs half asleep toast in the toaster also like if people people don't tend to kind of understand when like your physique changes to do with like running or whatever like if you have a big goal and you're increasing your for argument's sake you're doubling your mileage yeah like my body changes i become like skinnier yeah right because i probably lift weights less yeah and then and you're running you just get people going like you need to eat something it's like i'm eating 5 000 calories a day yeah when i was in my last marathon block like i definitely lost weight and i was like and I think also it's an interesting conversation in the world of women when weight and like how you look is such a massive thing and I was like trying to genuinely be like I was eating more than I was how I looked two months before that when I was like I mean your weight only fluctuates like give or take a little bit but I was like genuinely I was eating so much more and I think women do not believe you I'm like but like what do you want me to do like film every day but like I'm genuinely waking up and I'm like I'm constantly eating and I'm not eating like delicious raw salads.

56:24I'm like sat there like eating bowls of oats. Yeah. Lovely. Doused in honey and milk and other delicious stuff. Yeah. Fruit and granola. I'm like this. Hungry again. We've eaten twice since being here. Great big things. Like literally. Yeah. Actually talking about this is making me like, oh, I'm going to eat one more. Yeah. A hundred percent. It is nice. it's one of the it's one of the great joys of training hard I think yeah it is that you can just like load up and whatever there's nothing sometimes there's nothing I love more than like a 30k run on a sassy morning like sitting on the sofa like not going out on a sassy night waking up on a Sunday and like having that like because sometimes your hunger gets suppressed like straight after a long run so I don't I'm not like uber hungry on the sassy then the Sunday waking up and just being like oh my god I can eat whatever I want for every single meal today and just like enjoying that.

57:18Do you eat cheeseburgers? Yep. I had a cheeseburger on Sunday. Have you had a bleaker burger before? Have you? Yeah. A double-baked bleaker burger? The bleaker burgers, you can get them on Uber Eats. Yeah. Yeah. Or deliver it. I imagine they're on. Or whatever it is. Not the plug. It's not a plug. I'm talking to you about burgers, mate. Like we're not going to be sponsored by a bleaker burger, unfortunately. You should before it goes live. Oh, yeah. Listen, as I've said. Have you had a bleaker burger? We'll take money from anyone. Well, not anyone. But we would take money off Bleeker. No, I had Five Guys on Sunday.

57:52Five Guys, double cheeseburger and chips and milkshake. It's good. It is, isn't it? It's good. And I ate it and I was like, it's fun. Yeah, it is fun. Isn't it good? Okay, favourite super shoe? Adipro 4. Is it? This thing? Yeah. Yeah. Alfie Manthorpe's least favourite shoe? and you're his childhood friends. Yeah. And you just... We're bat heads about that. Do you? Yeah. Why do you love it? I find it the most, like, responsive but less aggressive. So I have, like, the Puma Fast R3s, which are obviously renowned for being completely insanely fast. But, well, I guess it's talking, actually, we're talking about, like, what distance I'm running this, what distance I'm running to what shoe I'd run in.

58:45Okay, 5K. fast r3 uh 10k probably fast r3 half marathon that and then adipro 4 and marathon adipro 4 i think i don't know also there's something about them like i also think when i feel good in what i'm wearing and like how it looks i run better because i'm like i feel good in this it like compliments it looks cool i've not put the fast r3 on and think i'm not like looking at it That doesn't particularly look very nice on my foot. Like, I think it's almost like wearing a track spike. Like, I used to hate wearing spikes growing up because I used to think, like, I just hate the way it, like, makes me look.

59:25Whereas in a Fast R3, I put on. Did you ever come across these, though? No, that, I mean, that's, yeah, they're cool. They're pretty sick. But I don't know, they're just, like, so flat. I don't know, it's something about the way that this looks. I just love it. Yeah. And also, for a girl who, like, very, thinks about what she wears a lot in races, the Addi Pro 4s come in like every colour do you have them in blood red? no I don't I just love that I could never get a pair oh it's very upset I have them in a lot of colours though and I also think if I was like I'd like plan my outfit and then be like I'd probably find a Fast Star 3 that matches that whereas in like most carbon shoes like for example the London Marathon New Balance shoe was yellow and pink so you're either wearing yellow or pink you don't really have much choice there do you know what I mean like you could like pick your outfit and then pick your shoe but I do think the Fast R3 are like I'd be worried to wear no I'd be worried to wear Fast R3 for a marathon because it's so aggressive I'm going to have to buy a pair like because you're the second person that said I don't have any I was going to say the Fast R3 does keep coming up and it's more like what you should get a pair for a 5k pb I will don't worry I am horrendous with like addicted to buying the new stuff I may as well, like, just, like, I machine gun, like, new shoes.

1:00:46I'll let you walk out of here. Sport shoes. That's like the R3s. I'll have all of them. Yeah, yeah. No, they'll be at my house tomorrow. Yeah, fair. Yeah. Do they size up or down or normal or, like, this is another thing. Okay, should we do a business? I've got an idea. Yeah. Right? Why is it that if I look at all the shoes that I own, I go from, like, a nine and a half to an 11 and a half. It's so annoying. across the same brand sometimes. Yeah, I know. I have this, and my manager, she's probably listening, is always like, what's your shoe size? I'm like, I can't tell you. I can't tell you. It could be 9.5, 10, 10.5, 11, or 11.5.

1:01:21I have that, but for New Balance, every single shoe, I have a different size. I'm like a 10.5. No, I'm a 10 normally in the Adidas, in the Pro 4s. I'm a 10.5 in the Prime X3s. Yeah. I'm like a 9.5 in the Alpha Fly. I'm an 11 in the Terex. It's like, I don't know what's going on. Do you know what? I think the Fast Star 3s actually do show up pretty true to size. But then what is true to size these days? I don't know. Yeah, because they're all so different. I have such a varying shoe size, clearly. But I remember trying on the Pro 4s in a 5 or 5.5, which is what my... Was it 5 or 5.5? I think it was a 5.5.

1:02:03And that's what your... Adi Pro 4s are. And that's what your Puma size is. Well, it's different, isn't it? My puma every day is four and a half, but I'd always size up for... Hang on a second, you have four and a half sized shoes? Like, how do you get anywhere? Like, that's a tiny foot. Yeah, my feet are really small. Four and a half? Yeah. Wow, and they make the puma fast R, or whatever it's called, in that size? My fast R's are five. Or four and a half. So do I need to get half a size up? Can you pass me that Pro 4? Thank you. I love how it's not new. It's like completely worn. Yeah, yeah, no.

1:02:44These are mine. UK, ten and a half. So I'd get an... I don't know whether to get a nine and a half or a ten. Nine and a half feels aggressively small. I don't think... So what, the Puma will be smaller than this? Yeah. Yeah. It's annoying, isn't it? Like, can't shoe companies make shoes to be the identical... Also, it's not like running kit where you can, like, have different... Like, you know, if it's a baggy tee, it'll fit differently. It's like, just have a soul that's a universal soul. Agreed. I agree. I agree. I find it very irritating, actually. I know, and I got a pair of Pumas literally sent to me the other day, size five, flippers.

1:03:21Okay, great. So they're too big. But they're not the Fast Star 3s. They're a new shoe, the DV8 something. And I was like, but I am a five. But they're like huge. Flippers. Yeah, yes, thank you, Simon. Well, we can... I can put it back. Someone doesn't trust you to put it back. Yeah, we're going to knock over the vase. Yeah. Look at that. Perfect. There you go. Fast R3s. Do they come in cool colours? They do come in really cool colours. But again, they're quite aggressively like the new colour shade will be like purple. So then you'll have a pair of purple shoes. They're like very purple. Which again, is something I love about them.

1:03:56It's like they're just white, black and white. Are they super responsive? Yeah. Are they soft? Are they like very soft? I wouldn't say that. Have you ever run in these, the endorphin pro threes, endorphin threes, whatever they're called? The elite twos and threes. I don't know the elites. What's the ones below them? Endorphins. Yeah, so that's an endorphin. And then that's the first one. Because that's like the squidgy issue I've ever put on my foot in my whole life. That one was okay. The two is like may as well be a marshmallow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then the three is kind of between the two.

1:04:31But those are too soft for me. I'm 84 kilos. Yeah, yeah. No, it's nothing like that. So they're firm? It's somewhere in between. They're definitely, they're firmer. They're firmer than, I don't know, like, I find it hard to compare anything to an Adi Pro 4. Yeah, because they're quite soft. What about an Alphafly? Do you know, do you race an Alphafly? Yeah, I've raced an Alphafly. Yeah, yeah, true. More of an Alphafly feel of that, like, slightly more rigid. A bit more like a cushion. Noisy, the Alphafly. Yeah, really noisy. I remember for the first time I put them on and I'm running around Batsy Park, my mate, and he was like, huh?

1:05:09And also, this was like Valencia time, so this was kind of before the big running club and we were like slapping around the park. It is like someone's playing the bongos. Yeah, behind you. My friend even said this is on a marathon because I think alfafars are a bit like not everyone wears them anymore. She was like, I thought someone was like hitting the floor behind me. She realised it was just an alfafar. I was like, yeah, they're loud. It is. What do you do professionally now? you're uh you're uh as in like my job you run yeah content full-time yeah yeah when did you decide to make that jump i used to work at tiktok and then i got made redundant from tiktok which was like a blessing because i hated my job and do you know grace beverly yeah she has a fitness app called shreddy yeah and they it was when the running you could it was like definitely starting boom and they basically looked for a running trainer and they reached out and they were like we want you to be our running trainer and I was like cool and I basically interviewed for that got that and that basically gave me the it was a 12 month contract like not dissimilar to him I was getting paid at my nine to five and it basically was like gave me that like jump to be like oh I'm just gonna try this for a year and that was like two and a half years ago are you still with them no okay I left a year and a half ago so I did my first year with them and then I was like I really want to like move to like my page was so running that it felt like it wasn't quite aligning because it's more like a novice running app, like gym girl space.

1:06:32And I felt like I wanted to be in like a running space. That's when I started with Runner. Because I was like, I want to be with a running app, not like a fitness app. Yeah. And I moved to Runner like a year and a half ago. What would you say the biggest mistake that runners make when they're trying to get faster is?

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1:09:01What would you consider the heart rate of an easy run? See, I think heart rate is like so... I think everyone's like, oh, I think when you get into running, you kind of want to sound like you know what you're talking about. So a lot of people are like, oh, I run, I'm doing my zone two run. And I'm like, your zone two run on Strava, that's just rather set your zones right is completely irrelevant to you unless you've done a vo2 max test my heart rate is like crazy high when i'm at my fittest my zone two will be like 165 to 170 and that's me just like chilling and chatting and then my like that's crazy high yeah yeah yeah and then my like if i'm doing a session i can sit in 190 like i can do a track session and hit like 202 so i'm like if you look at me as like an anomaly and then you look to like my strava you'd be like oh she ran like an easy 10k today but my heart rate was probably like 168 but that's like completely chilled for me wow so i think heart rate is hard to determine unless you've done a vo2 max test yeah because it's kind of irrelevant so i'd say like you just want to be sat like i'd always say like take a minute if we're talking about people like say you have done a VO2 max test and you know your heart rate zones.

1:10:16Yeah. So like, have you done a VO2 max test? Yeah, yeah. What's your VO2 max? I actually can't remember. Will it be like mid-60s for you? Yeah, maybe. It was 60s 2.8 or something like that. Same as mine. Yeah. I'm 62.4 or something. So I think, yeah, but I'm obviously much heavier than you and stuff, which means that you are fitter than me. Well. I think. Does that not, that means that, it can't be the other way around, I don't think. No, it doesn't. It would be harder for you to exert the same amount as me, obviously, which you are doing because we have the same VO2 max. Yeah. I also think there's a, like a VO2 max, you can actually like look at a bit more level playing field.

1:11:03Like if it was two boys, you'd be able to like, even if your weight was different because it is literally your cardiovascular fitness. so you can look at a little bit more playing level playing field than so it's quite funny so my my zone three starts in like the early 150s so like i'm zone two all the way up to 150 which which i'm told is quite high yeah no mine's kind of crazy well yeah it sounds it like 168 did you say is like that would be like my average marathon like heart rate oh no i sit at like at the end of a marathon and like 195 when when are you in like borrowed time like you're not obviously I don't know I can just like clearly like I don't know my heart's just like beating quick crikey I mean it sounds it yeah well there we go I mean yeah to your question I think the biggest the biggest mistake people make when they're trying to get quick at running is running their easy runs too fast i always think like take a minute off whatever your race pace is so if you're running if you want to do your your marathon pace is five minute k's then you should be running all your easy runs six minutes and slower like i know a lot of people who's like marathon pace you know might be like 4 45s and they're running their easy runs at 4 45 and i'm like well that's not an easy run then is it's your race pace well yeah i mean in that example it doesn't make much sense you know but if um if my marathon pace say was 353 or whatever it's going to need to be yeah then my easy i'm running my easy runs currently at like 4 30 to 4 40 without letting the heart rate drift above like 150 so they are going to it still feels like an effort though like that i was chatting to steven about it it's kind of like my easy runs are kind of easy-ish like they don't feel like the easiest thing in the world like I'm not like texting people kind of I'm like semi-focused see I think there's a real like sweet spot in like your training whereas if your marathon pace is 3.55 say you want to be doing like your easy runs like at least a minute slower to like 4.55 to like 5.15 I'll bring this up with master splinter later He's going to be like, don't listen to that.

1:13:27As then I go and run a quicker marathon time than you. We're racing, mate. You're coming to Valencia and we're racing. Oh, God. And I'll go off really hard and you'll warm up for 30k and then I'll see you bolt past me with 2k to go and it'll be distressing. That's right. So the boy I was seeing at the time, when I ran Valencia, we went out as a big group and there was this big thing of like, who's going to win? Who's going to win? Who's going to win? And he did exactly that. we stood on the start line together and he went, bye. And I was like, bye. And then my friends tracked us at home and he was a mile in front of me the whole race.

1:14:03So they were like, oh, she's never going to catch him. Like a mile is a lot to cover to catch up. I took him over at the last 200 meters. Did you see him? I saw him in the corner of my eye. Like he was like in the middle of the like. I love the way you didn't even bother to like go and tap him or something. Like I wouldn't be able to help myself. But did you? Hey mate. Smack him on the ass. and then I remember finishing and turning around and going like this because obviously he'd left me so in his head like I'd not come past him so the whole race he was winning this like race we had going on so he thought he'd won won won won won won won crossed over the finish line and I turned around and was like and he was like I was like I've never seen someone's jaw drop he was like how's that happen?

1:14:44That was funny So yeah we'll try and redo that I'll be in my I'll be the guy in the fast pumas with the bloody shins. Yeah. By the end of it, with bones poking out. Not supposed to race in those, actually. I don't think you want to run a marathon in the fast style freeze. Okay, I'll take your word for it. I will, however, race them this weekend, I think, just for the fun of it. Purple. I'll be the guy with the purple shoes in Battersea Park. Scullion's just going to be like, have you just bought new shoes again? He will not believe it. He's literally just going to be like, you don't need all this crap.

1:15:22It's like, well, I need all the help I can get. Do you think that runners are being misled by like influencers on Instagram and like copying sessions that they shouldn't be running? I think you could be misled because there's a lot of information out there. But I do think personally, if I was to look at it from an office of like, I really wanted to get into tennis. so I started following a couple of tennis influencers and I watched their training I would use my common sense to not go and try and replicate their sessions as someone who's training at like a sub elite level so I think you I think I I do think there's a lot of information out there and there's obviously a lot of I think the hard thing is it's like right now in the society we live in you can just engulf so much information you can engulf so much like different perspectives on the same thing.

1:16:15But I think if you lose, if you use a common knowledge, then common sense, then no. It's one of the reasons I find Instagram so annoying. Yeah, because it's so much knowledge. Well, it's not even knowledge. Well, it's not knowledge. Yeah, it's just people saying stuff. It's just people saying things. Yeah, or not even. You would use, like back in the day, you would need to be credible. To say. To have a platform to say anything. Yeah. whereas now you don't no and you can say whatever you like yeah exactly and that's what we do here at UNTAP we just say whatever we want Mary McCarthy thank you so much for taking the time to join us that was that was wonderful loved having you thanks for having me and I'll see you in Battersea Park I hear that you're always in Battersea Park but I don't think that we have yet come across each other I think I think I've not been there for a while to be fair because I was in Australia at the start this year but now now we shall we'll have that little kind of one of those one of those like capping moments as i see in your past or three yeah when you run past a fellow athlete oh she's