Running The World’s Most Dangerous Marathons, ADHD and the Psychology of Endurance

0:00Hey, it's Tony from Tony Told Me. On Iyanla, The Inside Fix, a podcast from OWN, Iyanla Vanzan revisits the stories, teachings, and insights that made her show, Fix My Life, a must-watch for millions. With fresh eyes, she re-examines those lessons with greater clarity and shares new wisdom for the challenges we face today. Personal growth evolves over time, and there's always room to find new meaning in old lessons. Listen to Iyanla, The Inside Fix, wherever you get your podcasts. Who says Halloween only lasts one day? With Wayfair, one night of Halloween becomes a whole season at home. From larger-than-life yard decor and moody lighting to festive accents for every room in the house, Wayfair has what you need to make Halloween feel like magic all in one place.

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1:36When you spend a lot of time in conflict zones, having seen children lose their lives, you're compelled to want to do something to change that. I was diagnosed with ADHD a few years ago. For me, it's a bit of a superpower because if I've got something in my mind, I'm relentless in that pursuit. I don't care what it takes. I know I'm going to get there. You shared that just 18 months ago you were sectioned due to mental health struggles. I just had enough of life. I thought I couldn't. Yeah.

2:08You've been called an adventurer, a soldier, a sports person, an educator. What, in your own words, does being an adventurer actually mean? I think for me, being an adventurer is essentially, it's a way of life. It's a state of mind. It's about being curious. It's about exploring the world. And you don't have to go to extreme places or go on an epic expedition. You've just got to think like an adventurer, you know, being prepared to take a risk now and again, being a bit sort of creative in how you go about life, being curious to see what's out there. So I, you know, even during the lockdown, I had some of the best adventures in my back garden with my daughter.

2:53You know, I didn't have to go to, you know, the high Arctic or the Himalayas or anywhere. So I think it's really, it's just a way of life and a state of mind. You've done some incredible challenges, but I'd love to hear about how you have pushed yourself in the past and the purpose behind each challenge. You know, mainly for me, it's about the why we do it as opposed to the what we're doing. But in this world, as you know, as well as me, you have to do, you have to push the boundaries if you want to get that support. If you're trying to raise money for charity or get the media hook, you need to do something a bit different and a bit crazy.

3:29So for me, I learned that a long time ago, climbing Kilimanjaro completely barefoot. And then that just sort of grew from there, doing the 10 coldest marathons in the world to the most dangerous marathons in the world through war zones to, you know, attempting to be the first person to paddleboard around Britain, rowing across dangerous stretches of water, just trying to be different, but have a positive impact on the world and try and inspire people to show them that you don't have to be an Olympic champion, you know, to go and do these things. You've just got to have a bit of self-belief and And be prepared to take a chance, you know, back yourself and go for it.

4:01In adventure, there's no rules. You sort of, you can almost make it up as you go along. And that has a lot of parallels with life because you're constantly knowingly going into the unknown, you know, and you don't know what you're going to come across or how long it's going to last. Whether you're running an ultra marathon or you're climbing a big mountain, those sorts of things ask questions of you. You know, they talk to you and they say, how much do you really want this? How prepared, how deep are you prepared to go? and some people aren't prepared to go deep and they find that out about themselves in these but I think for me when I'm in those sort of situations I constantly my brain default setting is to going back to gratitude and thinking about people I've lost in the military loved ones who are no longer with us and I always think like what would they do to have one more chance at this life you know one more dinner one more meal one more breath one more conversation and then I say, pull my big boy pants up and get on with it.

4:55Stop moaning and keep moving forward. Before you try and convince the rest of the world to believe in you, you've got to believe in you. Otherwise, it's a non-starter. For me, I was diagnosed with ADHD a few years ago. And I think for me, it's a bit of a superpower because if I've got something in my mind, I'm relentless in that pursuit. I don't care what it takes. I know I'm going to get there. I know I'm going to make it happen. And people see it as a negative or some kind of disorder, but I'm like... And there are downsides to it, of course. You know, having hyper-focus has not been great for my relationships in a lot of my life on a personal level.

5:30But in terms of career and vision and making things happen, I'm like going for it and we're doing it. And I don't have it all worked out sometimes. But that's also part of the adventure, you know, working out as you go along. You know, again, I just feel that there's so much similarity between us. I also have ADHD and I also get told that I'm sometimes not fully there in my closest relationships when, and those comments usually come at the time when I'm my absolute most dialed in to something. So to me, I couldn't be more present in something. And I hear on the periphery kind of, oh, like, you know, you seem a bit distant at the moment.

6:12It's kind of, wow, like I'm in the opposite of what you just said to me. So when you said that, I found that interesting. I guess that must be a common trait with people with our disorder and inverted commas. I also see it as something that's worth having. No, definitely. For me, I think certainly in relationships. I was saying just before you arrived, I was like, oh, we're going to have an awesome ADHD kind of chat because we're both mentally ill. Anyway, go on. Yeah, I think that little part of me having ADHD is something, having a diagnosis nearly two years ago, even though it doesn't change who I am, I'm still fully responsible for every decision I've ever made and I'm fully accountable.

7:00But that allowed me to start understanding myself a lot better, but it also allowed loved ones and close family members to understand me. you know i'm not just that crazy nutcase i'm that person who actually that's why he makes that decision that's why he makes those impulsive you know that's why he's a bit erratic sometimes and that's why he's hyper focused so for me getting that diagnosis although it doesn't change anything it's made my life a lot clearer from that big sort of chaos and blur that's out there um so i think yeah like you say small little things that can make a big difference is huge, especially later in life when I think also being prepared to look in the mirror and take full responsibility and accountability for the things that you're not happy with is really important.

7:45I think that takes a lot of courage. I think you have to be brave, but if you can stand in the mirror and say, I don't like what I'm seeing at the moment. And the only way I can change this is by doing something about it. And that's on me. Because I think we do run away from it, especially I certainly have in relationships in the past. When I look back, I've not been a good partner. I think I'm honest, I'm loyal, don't cheat or anything, but I've been very selfish. I've been very all about me and living life on my terms and not on what is our terms. So we're still learning, we're still growing, we're still evolving all the time and we're products of all our decisions, I think, aren't we, that have brought us here.

8:26hey it's tony from tony told me on iyanla the inside fix a podcast from own iyanla vanzan revisits the stories teachings and insights that made her show fix my life a must watch for millions with fresh eyes she re-examines those lessons with greater clarity and shares new wisdom for the challenges we face today personal growth evolves over time and there's always room to find new meaning in old lessons. Listen to Iyanla, The Inside Fix, wherever you get your podcasts. Most women have been there. Something feels off. You don't feel like yourself, yet your doctor says everything looks fine. Spoiler, it's your hormones.

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10:11I think that there is a place for a degree of selfishness in the growth phase of your life. I think if you, like me, again, sorry to keep drawing similarities, are at a time in your life that is where you can really try to help people, set an example for your kids, go out there, break boundaries, do exciting, interesting things, raise a lot of money for charity. it requires an awful lot of hyper-focus and drive. You can't half-heartedly do it, really. So I understand when I'm interviewing really interesting and exciting people who've achieved great things, when they say that they've been selfish in their life.

11:02Because as morally sound as it is to put other people before you and care enormously about others and empathize with, you know, all kinds of situations that are going on in your life around you. If you're not fully driven in what you are seeking to achieve as a founder or athlete or, you know, whatever it might be, fundraiser, you will have a much higher chance of failure. I agree completely. I couldn't agree more. I think that is the paradox of something like ADHD because on one hand, your relationships do often suffer because you are hyper-focused, dialed into the extreme where it's not conscious that you're not spending enough time or you're still working on the laptop when you've got home.

11:50It's just that you're in the zone and you're trying to make the best of whatever the situation is. I see that as admirable though. So So for me, sometimes it can be a bit rough when it's almost treated like a bad thing. Yeah. Whereas, you know, I think it's not to get too personal, obviously, but, you know. But that's where you've got to find your tribe, isn't it? That is something that my wife and I have struggled with in the past. You know, when I started Clean Co, I was just like a dog with a bone. You know, I slept sporadically, was pacing around the kitchen at four in the morning, chatting to Australian investors.

12:28I just had no chill, no off switch, was for all intents and purposes thinking I was kind of Bill Gates. I was literally just in it. You couldn't have been more dialed into it. And some relationships, some friendships certainly have suffered to the point of extinction. There's no time for it. And it's nothing personal. It's just time that I would have spent in the pub with my pals is replaced with zooms and project building calls with your team and i'm just more excited by that at this stage in my life but i think as you grow older as well you sort of find your tribe you find your people who who are supportive i think something i've always tried to do is is cut negative energy out at source quite quickly whether it's family friends loved ones whatever if you're bringing negative it i'm like get out i don't want to know I can't be dealing with negative energy.

13:24Well, energy is palpable as well, isn't it? Yeah, absolutely. It's such a strange force, I find, energy. You can legitimately feel people's energy. When you walk in a room, you feel it. You feel the buzz, the vibe, the energy. But likewise, if somebody's sucking your energy out of you, you feel that as well and you need to escape if that's it. Like some ghastly vampire. Yeah, energy vampire. And they're out there. There's loads of them out there. No, no. So we've got no room for energy vampires in here anyway. You've completed some incredible endurance challenges. Take us through a few examples of, let's call them the toughest ones, both mentally and physically.

14:05And I'd be really interested to hear how you approach them from a physical perspective, but also how much mental attention you give them kind of before? I'd be keen to compare and contrast your prep. Yeah, I think physically, I'm not, again, an athlete as such, but I'm keeping myself in relatively good shape all year round, going to the gym, you know, working out, playing sports, those sorts of things. But I think most of the challenges, in my opinion, are mental challenges. I think the body will give up quite quickly if the mind isn't in the right shape. You know, that's a given. And I think that's where a lot of people get it wrong.

14:46They go to the gym and the relentless, you know, doing their selfies in the mirror with the six packs and thinking they've cracked it. But the moment you get to a certain stage of the journey where the muscles get tired and the lactic acid builds up and fatigue kicks in, that's where this takes over. And the body, the mind especially, is like a muscle. And if you train it, if you put yourself in difficult, hard situations for long periods of time, the science is you become more resilient. You become more able to cope with stress. and I think any of them, whether I've, you know, like I did 15 marathons in 15 days in the 15 national parks, we did the 10 coldest marathons on earth.

15:25Paddleboarding around the UK was more of a mental battle than it ever was as a physical because you're dealing with the elements, you're dealing with the weather, you know, the great British coastline, you get four seasons in a day, you get moments where the tide is against you for days and the wind's going in the wrong direction And I remember being stuck on the northwest coast of Scotland for like a week and I couldn't move. And you sat on a beach, you've got... It's so grim. It is. It's miserable. And you've not eaten a decent meal. You're injured. You're tired. You've not spoke to your family because there's no signal in half of Scotland.

15:57And you sat on a beach thinking, what am I doing here? What am I actually doing here? I've not seen my daughter in like two months. And that's where your why is so important because that's where you go back to, why am I doing this in the first place? and the why for me always has to be bigger than the what if you're going to succeed in my opinion you know and i made a promise to a little boy that we were going to build a school in africa we were going to raise the best part of half a million dollars and we're going to build a school from scratch and deliver it and when i was tired and fatigued and hungry and injured on that west coast of scotland and i was desperate to go home and it was probably the most of the closest i've been to breaking point it was that little promise that i'd made to build that school that kept me pushing forward and going.

16:41But also going back to what I said earlier, as a soldier, you see quite a lot of horrific things in your time, you know, on the front line in places like Iraq or Afghanistan. And there's brothers and sisters that never came home that would have done anything to come home and have one more meal with their family. So I always think about some quite dark thoughts when I'm in the sort of hurt locker, so to speak, and they drag me through it. They push me through it. Um, but it's, it's tough, but I think mentally most of these endurance challenges, they're a mental game, 80 % mental for me. Um, of course you've got to look after yourself.

17:16You've got to keep yourself fit. Nutrition is something that's always overlooked. I think people putting fuel into their body is so important. Um, it's something that I see it's certainly in ultra ultra events where people aren't getting enough electrolytes or they're not getting enough food or whatever it is. It's something that, that, that people always sort of come a cropper on, I think. So, yeah, I think the head game is what it's all about. I was just thinking about you on the beach there in Scotland. The why is, it is, in my opinion, what gets you through stuff. I think, you know, when we were in Jordan and stuff got pretty rough, the understanding that this pain is very much temporary and that, you know, all being well, you'll certainly see your kids again soon and you'll have your running water and your toilet and your nice warm bed and, you know, your loving wife and your three meals and whatever.

18:13You know, it's kind of, you know, that you're going back to that. When we were in Jordan, you know, the thought that the money that we raised would help certain kids, you know, some of whom are terminally ill, you almost feel odd or silly even expressing pain because it's nothing compared to the pain and suffering that the people you're looking to help are experiencing in many cases. So it kind of... And it's literally nothing. It puts everything into perspective. When you spend a lot of time, it's for me, in conflict zones. And I see kids having seen children lose their lives. you know for me kids are the ultimate victim of a conflict and war you know as an adult you can flee you can fight you can make decisions but as a child in a conflict zone you're just unlucky in the lottery of life and when you've seen kids injured killed maimed you're firsthand you're compelled to want to do something to change that and it makes me it makes me quite emotional actually, because yeah, it's, um, it's just, I just feel so privileged to still be living and breathing, you know, like that I've still got a chance here.

19:28So if you can make a difference in life, you should make a difference. And I think that's really important. You know, we're both very lucky and privileged, whatever, whatever, you know, I, I used to think that I was hard done by coming from a little council estate in Blackpool. But when you've traveled the world and seen extreme poverty, you've seen extreme hardship, you've seen conflict and war and death and destruction. I've had the luckiest life ever, me. I'm such a privileged person and I got to pay it forward. I got to give someone else a chance because I've been given so many great chances.

20:00It's feeling proud of yourself as well, I think, that's really rewarding because it's actually quite a rare, in my experience, feeling. I think when you're actively trying to help others through a fundraiser, whatever it might be, with a big purpose, which I know is really important to you, I'd love to talk to you more about purpose. But achieving something that you felt maybe could have been out of reach, or at least out of reach to your former self, you know in my case um fills you with with pride and i have a fantastic relationship with my father as well you know and and i'm i have always longed for him to feel proud of me both my brothers were very very successful we lost michael on everest uh james was a phenomenal racing driver and then a very successful businessman and i was a drunk you know and i used to long for the appreciation and pride of my older brother and my father in particular.

21:01My mum has always been, you know, not soft with me, but she's always been very openly loving of me, regardless of my behaviour, you know, whereas it felt a little bit more, not transactional, but, you know, perhaps less, more conditional, shall we say, with the men in my family. And crossing the finish line in the 1330, I felt a huge shift in them and me. We had a great relationship before, but it became this open acceptance of kind of, we are the same essentially now. And it was something that only I would notice. Nobody else would. Yeah, well, great pride in what you've achieved. And I think, as you say, for you, it's hard.

21:51When you're chasing all the time, which we are, we're always chasing something and the next thing and then the next thing, I think it's really hard to, you've got to stop and enjoy those little wins in life and those moments because you're already, like already your mind's on to what can I do next? What can I do next? And I think especially people with ADHD, we achieve something and we forget to celebrate those little wins. You know, it's almost like, okay, that's done to the side and we go again and find something else. And I think those small little victories, not just in big expeditions, but in our days, you know, I say to the kids all the time, like, if you've had a great day at school or you've done well on sports, celebrate those.

22:28Go and have a little, have a happy meal at McDonald's or your friends, go and have a beer or whatever your vice is in life. Go and have a moment because it's really important to celebrate those small wins because we're moving so fast in this day and age that we forget. And when we look over our shoulder, actually, we've come a long way. Look at your journey. Look at, as you said, from a drunk to where you are now. That's a lot of ups and downs. That's an incredible roller coaster. But look at the impact you've had in that journey as well. And look at, as you said, your family proud now. You're, for once in your life, proud of who you are.

23:04That's a big change. That's a real transformational shift. How many kids do you have? I have one that I know of. A daughter. Yeah, yeah. I have one. A daughter. I have a daughter, yeah. A 15-year-old daughter. How important is it to you that she grows up in a world where she believes that anything is possible? I think it's, that's everything, isn't it? I think I want her to go and achieve all her wildest dreams. I never want to be the one to say, oh no, should you think about doing this? Cause that's maybe a bit out of your reach. Um, I left school with no qualifications. You know, I, I didn't have anything and an education is really important.

23:43I've gone back to education. In fact, as an adult, I, I've joined the army and done all my GCSEs, A-levels, bachelor's, master's degree. it was all in there it just wasn't in a classroom you know at 16 years old so you can absolutely achieve anything you want I would say to any young person in this world but you've got to believe it you know and it's not going to be easy either you know don't think it's a gift it's not a cliche it's not a meme off the internet that you can achieve anything you've got to work your socks off for it and if you've got a goal you've got to live and breathe that goal every day when you get out of bed that's got to be the first thing in your you've got to be relentless in pursuit of that goal if you want to do it you'll do it though What's the world like at the moment for teenagers?

24:23You must be close to it. So, you know, I have really young kids. I've got a, my son's turning seven in September. I've got a five-year-old daughter and then another three-year-old boy. Are you at all concerned nowadays about social media, your daughter's exposure to people online, screen time, toxic voices? people are influenced differently now yeah just just full stop there's so much easy negative toxic content that we simply just weren't exposed to obviously there've always been toxic figures in the world but you could kind of pick up and put down whatever you wanted when we were young I feel like now there's less control.

25:16How do you feel as a father of a 15-year-old daughter? Yeah, I think that the world today for a teenager or a young person is much more difficult. It's much more tougher and it's extremely challenging to navigate. I think obviously the internet and social media has brought lots of great things to the world. It's allowed us to all pursue careers indirectly as a result of that. But I think especially screen time, you know, most kids these days, they're sitting in front of a screen day and night. It's not healthy. We spend more time indoors than we do outside in places like schools, youth organizations, and that can only have a negative impact.

25:57I think things like bullying, you know, we've seen a lot of suicides in young people as a result of online bullying, trolling, all these things. When we went to school, if you was bullied or if someone was negative towards you, the moment the class finished or the school finished, you went home, you were safe, you were back in your safe place. You can now be bullied while lying in your own bed by people. And that is dangerous for society. And it's tragic. And we've seen a lot of young lives in this country lost as a result of that. So we have to find the balance that's what we have to do um i think it's the same in the education system not everybody's wired for sitting in a classroom looking at a screen or a board you know some of the the most intelligent people flourish outside the classroom you know the best classrooms in the world don't have walls for me you know that's the great outdoors that's where you learn about risk about curiosity about resilience it's where you learn real skills um kids don't want to build a campfire anymore.

26:56Kids don't want to cross a river. They don't want to climb a tree. They want to be vloggers, bloggers, Instagram models, influencers. And I think if you have a profile of any sort in the world, whether it's as a micro-influencer or as a serious influencer that, I don't know, just come out of one of these reality shows with millions of followers, I think that you have to have a responsibility to the next generation to pump out positive messages. Is it educational? Is it encouraging? Is it inspiring? Is it motivational? Not let's sell you the latest whatever product. Because some of these influencers that come out of these reality TV shows, they have more influence on young people than mainstream politicians, than business leaders.

27:38That's got to come with some sort of accountability in my eyes. Yeah. I just think there's a few very influential men do a massive disservice to men in general, I think, online. There's almost never been a greater divide between men and women. And I think the majority of nice, humble, normal, hardworking, morally in tune men don't have a loud voice online. So you're kind of painted with and tarnished with a kind of new toxic brush. And it must be a very confusing place for a young man at the moment. Men make up over three quarters of suicides in this country. Somebody takes their own life every single hour, pretty much, give or take, in this country with about three quarters of them being men.

28:35And as you say, It's a complicated thing. I think there's so many false ideologies that men chase nowadays. If you're not strong, if you're not rich, if you're not handsome, if you're not driving a Ferrari, then you're a piece of shit type thing. The problem is, if you're a young person looking at that, your life seems pretty dull. Look what they're doing over there all the time. God, they're having so much fun. He's always on an adventure. That isn't the reality, though. That's a small percentage of our lives. I think you make a good point about mental health as well. It's almost at sort of epidemic levels now.

29:11Most people who I speak to have had some sort of mental health challenge of some sort. I've taken medication for over a decade for depression and anxiety, not because of anything to do with the military, but because of the normal challenges that we face in life. and most people that I speak to on a daily basis have had some form of depression or anxiety and it's almost normal now. And as you say, people think that we have to have this macho image. We can't show a weakness. We've got to be strong. But that isn't the reality of life for a lot of people. So I think de-stigmatising, talking about it more is the only way we can overcome that.

29:56I think trying to set a good example if you're in a position to do so, I think vulnerability and weakness in inverted commas, there's room for it, of course. If you're always overly vulnerable as a man, then it will be mistaken for weakness. And I don't think that's the answer either. But I think just generally having more balanced voices of people who are emotionally in tune is helpful. You speak about anxiety and depression and being on medication. Firstly, has the medication helped you? And secondly, do you see movement and challenge as a big part of the answer to mental health issues? Definitely.

30:45I think, has it helped me, the medication? It's a strange one because I don't think it makes me feel better, but it stops me getting worse, if that makes sense, which is not ideal really because I don't want to be on medication and I've tried to come off it many times, but it's quite a slippery slope for me. I go downhill quite quickly when I don't take my little sertraline tablet every day. So what is it? What does it do? So what happens for argument's sake if you just come off your meds? If I come off my meds completely, I'm a morning person. I love getting out of bed and I can't wait to attack the day.

31:20If I don't take my meds, the world's against me. I've got a very negative aura. I can't be bothered. I'll find a million reasons. All my problems seem to be heightened in my life, whereas they're very much suppressed while I take medication. But saying that, the best medication that I've found is the great outdoors. It's exercise, it's movement, it's connection with people, it's positive energy. That will do more for your world than any little tablet will ever do. And I always feel on this ultra high when I'm on an expedition, it's almost like when you're a soldier in a conflict zone all your senses are heightened it's almost like it's the most you can ever feel alive you're so alive and that's what i feel like on an expedition it's almost like it's like a drug that you can't get enough of being on an expedition you know you're buzzing every day even though it's going to be the hardest thing you've ever done in your life you want more of it and you know it's it's a weird a weird feeling a weird sensation um and and as you say when you're finished one of the the darkest the darkest days least for me, are after an expedition because it's that come down, all the hype and the buzz, and you've done all the media and it's all finished.

32:27It's like, well, that's it. And that's the end. And then it's like, okay, we need to find something else now. We need to do the next one. And that's how it works, isn't it? And I know you can resonate with that. Well, I came out of Jordan, I'd literally never felt better in my whole life. I was so happy. And then I was riding that wave for quite a while, maybe like two weeks. It felt phenomenal. And then I was leaving Go Ape in Battersea Park. And I got a... Why are you laughing? I was leaving Go Ape in Battersea Park with my son Theodore. And I got a call from Chris Taylor, who's my good friend and logistical head for these challenges that we do.

33:11And it was just a tiny thing that he said. like we were just chatting away and he goes have you crashed back down to earth yet and like i hadn't even thought about it right and then all of a sudden i kind of it was a really weird feeling because after the call i was like i guess like yeah i guess i guess it kind of is over and then it just it did just lose its shine like it was always something that i'll be incredibly proud of but in that moment i did kind of feel this oh yeah i guess we're not like, you know, riding on, on some, um, you know, unicorn anymore. Um, and it was just a really interesting feeling, but that didn't mean to say that it was a bad feeling.

33:51It's just, it just, it's what you were saying. It was, you know, my brain then started ticking into what can we do? What else can we do? What, you know, what, what other causes can we raise money for? Cause it is, um, I've got an addictive, you know, personality. And if, if I don't set myself goals or targets or things to achieve or things to do, then I, like you and your medication, I drift into, well, I'm not as busy as I'd like to be. And maybe I get all these negative thoughts as well. Yeah. I get a lot of negative. For me, social media is a great example. You can have a thousand positive comments on a post.

34:31If you get one little troll with no face, no name, you know, it's been a made-up account, but my brain just goes to, what have I ever done to upset this guy? And that's like everything, all my energy goes to that, not all these positive people over here. And again, I don't know if that's an ADHD thing, but it's tough. You shared that just 18 months ago, you were sectioned due to mental health struggles. What was the turning point that helped you start to rebuild from that? And can you describe the experience of that? Yeah, it was a very, probably the darkest of days in my life. It was the end of a long-term relationship, I think.

35:17And I'd had enough. I thought, I'd just had enough of life. I thought I couldn't, I thought I've tried everything. I've tried to change myself. I've tried to be a better person. And it always seemed that nothing was ever good enough and I felt that I'd let my myself down my family down you know and yeah I decided that I didn't want to be here anymore to be to be very honest and I never really talked about it openly and I ordered I ordered what I needed needed to end my own life and yeah my my mother she I'd sort of wrote a letter and a video and what have you. And my mother sent the police round and the paramedics round to my house.

36:01And yeah, that was - How did she notice? Sorry. Basically, I'd ordered some things off Amazon and she got the alert. She was using, I thought my phone's still in my mother's name from about 20 years ago. Thank God. Yeah. And she, bless her, she drove down straight away, called the police and the paramedics and they came round. and yeah, that was it, so to speak. And then I was put into, you know, sort of counselling and therapy and all those sorts of things and I was surrounded by some amazing people. But yeah, it was a very dark time and luckily I met a wonderful human who's my partner now in that period who's been instrumental in helping me get out of that hole.

36:44I think for somebody to accept you for who you are with all the ugly stuff as well and the bad stuff, is quite, that's like a show of faith in you that I don't think I've ever really felt. You know, like somebody who says, I don't care what you've done or who you've upset, but I still want to be with you. I still love you. That's quite powerful. You know, so to be with someone now who's like my, not only my partner, but my best mate is really strong. And I've never been in a relationship where I feel so supported in my endeavors. I've always found a lot of my relationships, and I'm not speaking negatively about anyone because they've all been wonderful people and what have you.

37:19but a lot of people begrudge what I do. You work away for long periods of time doing these challenges. A lot of people see it as you're having fun or you're on holiday. I never go on holiday. My holiday is doing a marathon or I've just got my friends. I just come back from the Alps. We summited a couple of mountains in the Alps last week and everyone thinks that I'm drinking or I'm having a party. I'm not. I'm living in mountain huts or living in a tent on the side of the mountain but that's my holiday. That's my escapism. I don't want to lie on a beach. I can't lie on a beach. I can't think of anything worse than lying on a beach.

37:49Well, it sounds like you're in, obviously, a much better place than you were. Your partner sounds incredible. Yeah, she's a good girl. Of all of your challenges, what has been the most kind of mentally and physically crushing? Has there been a time when, you know, at any stage in one of your challenges where you have literally, where the desire to give up is so much that you've genuinely considered it? I think there's been a few times like that. I think certainly running the coldest marathons in places like Alaska and the Yukon in North America where you're in the middle of a whiteout and you can't see the person next to you and that sort of thing.

38:31How cold was it? Yeah, in the Yukon it was minus 40, but about minus 52 with wind chill. And it's actually, it's not too cold when you're running. It's the moment you stop running. It's horrendous. and it's as you'll know from the heat it's about understanding your body and regulating that temperature and in something like the Yukon race you have checkpoints so you you need to run fast to get to the checkpoint but you don't want to run too fast that you're sweating because then you get hyperthermia and you get cold and all those sorts of things so it's it's it's about managing your own your own body and understanding your own body and everybody's different everybody different fuel you know different outputs um but but i think the paddle the paddle was the only expedition I've done where I didn't complete it yet ironically it was probably the most successful challenge that I ever did it raised a phenomenal amount of money it got us documentaries it got us a Sunday Times best-selling book yet we failed in terms of the mission but the the why was to build a school and that's what we were able to do the way the what was was to paddle around the UK and so I for me it was it was it was my most proudest achievement even though it was a spectacular failure.

39:43And it's a great example for kids because when I go into a school and do a talk in an assembly for kids, I'll show them the map of the UK and I'll show them the whole bottom, the whole left and the whole top complete and the right section's missing. And I'll say to them, was that a success or a failure? And they'll go, well, it was a failure. You didn't get all the way around. But then you'll tell them the story of this little boy that you met and how you wanted to build a school. And then you ask them at the end, was it a success? And everyone says, It's amazing success. It's brilliant. So it's that growth mindset.

40:13That's what we look for as adventurers, as athletes. I think the ability to reframe negative thoughts in your life into neutral or positive ones is a special technique I try to talk a lot about with children from a psychological perspective. Again, going back to that West Coast of Scotland on the beach, I was injured. I was cold. I was tired. I'd not spoke to family, but actually that was the first time in months that my body could rest for a week. It was the first time I could get off the paddleboard and take a walk and do some stretching and, you know, sort of reset my body ready to go again.

40:49So there's always positives to take from a negative situation, but you've got to train your brain to reframe those negative thoughts into neutral or positive ones. The situation doesn't change, but your mindset changes. Smiling helps. Smiling. It's type two fun, we call it, don't we? type two fun is we have lots of types of fun but type type one fun it's fun and you love it and that's great type two fun is it's it's really shit when you're doing it but you look back and you smile and you go that was all right i enjoyed that and then i discovered on the paddle type three fun which means it's really shit when you're doing it and it's still shit when you're finished so so with that particular challenge we'll talk about the paddle how long were you on the board for and when would you stop?

41:35So what were the kind of rules in place? How did you know exactly where you are? Obviously, I imagine you're Garmin in reaching it or something so that you know exactly where you are at all times, or you'll have some navigating capacity. But when did you come off the board or did you remain on the board? We would come off at the end of, so we would paddle, I would paddle as long as I could paddle. And that was often dictated by conditions at sea, not so much physical ability or anything. It was more if the tide has changed or the wind's too strong. Because if you're on a paddleboard, your body is above the water.

42:10So you're essentially like a sail. If the wind is going that way, I think the worst paddle I did was off Weymouth on Chesil Beach. I'd paddled for six hours and I did minus 1.2 miles. You know, I went backwards. So - It's the worst day ever. Yeah, the worst day of my life. And Chesil Beach, if anyone knows Chesil Beach, it's like one of the longest stretches of beach and it's just all shingle. And there's no geographical landmarks on the side of the beach. There's no lampposts or telegraph poles. So you just don't even know if you're making progress or not because everything just looks the same.

42:40So yeah, I went backwards that day. And that was the day I decided, you know, I'm not ever going to beat the wind. You know, the wind will always win. So there were lots of stalls and pauses on the beaches. But what I loved about the coastal communities of the UK was they've all got a real spirit of adventure that you just don't get in the city. Every beach that I landed on, people wanted to help. I remember down in Cornwall, a little old lady brought me out a Sunday roast while I'm sat on the beach waiting, up in Scotland, people bringing out a hot chocolate. And you would arrive in these little villages that you've never heard of and leave with these amazing sort of friends that you've stayed in touch with.

43:16And people would, sometimes they'd give me a tent in the front garden, sometimes it'd be sleeping on a beach. Just wherever, you know, you sort of, you ended up that night, you would sleep. Sometimes we would paddle through the night because that was the weather window of opportunity. If the tide was going the wrong way, it might be a night paddle. So you'd paddle through the night and do six, eight hours on the board. And that was when the conditions were good. I always remember if you fell off in the night, the first thing that came in my head was the Jaws sound. It was always like, even though there's never been a great white off the British coast, but the moment you fall in in the dark, you can only think of sharks.

43:52Yeah. And one last question from me, Jordan, would be one that we ask all of our guests. On the topic of untapping your potential, do you have any advice for our listeners that they can action today to live a fuller life? Do you know what? The lessons or the advice that I share in schools every day, I'm a simple guy with very little in terms of education. I call it my ABC rule. It's as simple as ABC. A is for attitude. Attitude will get you further in life than any qualifications, any experience. If you approach every situation every day with a good, strong, positive, genuine, authentic attitude, I think life will look after you.

44:33You'll fly. B is for building relationships everywhere you go. relationships often lead to great opportunities and magical experiences. And C is continued professional development. You've always got something to learn. You never know everything, you know, so keep talking, keep building relationships, have a positive attitude and the world is your oyster. Jordan, thanks so much for joining us. Thank you. Cheers, mate. Pleasure. Thanks so much for listening. We hope you enjoyed that episode. And if you want to hear more incredible conversations with extraordinary people to help unlock the potential within all of us, then please subscribe, follow and review the show wherever you're listening or watching.

45:09Thanks again. We'll catch you next week right here on Untapped.

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47:27Thank you.