The Secret Running Obsession of Elite Golfer Charley Hull

0:03You're one of the most recognisable faces in the game of golf, but you're also a very keen runner. You use running for all elements of your life. Tell me a bit about your journey with running. So I actually started with my trainer, Kate Davey, who was madly into high, she was one of the best in high rocks. And I started training with her like three years ago, two years ago. and I really got into my running kind of through that, trying to, you know, it helps with high rocks, obviously, because it's mainly running. And I fell absolutely in love with running. And I went and got, you know, when they can test you for your threshold runs and everything, I got obsessed with threshold runs.

0:42I was loving them. It was really helping me beat my time because naturally I'm not a good runner. So I was obsessed with trying to break 20 for my 5K. And I was literally just about to do it, got an illness at a tournament where I fainted so I didn't run for like a week just tried to recover because I had the women's AIG women's open the week after and I wanted to be fresh for that so after that I was going to do my sub 20 run and then I tore the ligament in my ankle so I was gutted and I haven't really been able to run properly since I've only just been getting back into it doing all my rehab.

1:15There's kind of nothing worse than wanting to progress and running and getting a setback like that. Yeah, it just used to make me feel so good. Like I used to get up, if I had a tea time at eight o 'clock in the morning, I used to get up at like 4.30. If it was a threshold day for my threshold runs, I'll get up, do my threshold run, have a shower, get to the golf club. And I just feel like I'm one step ahead of everybody. Like I just loved it. And my mind felt so clear. So I was about to say, is it for your, the mental side of things or just the physical fitness as well? I felt like it was obviously for my physical fitness but it felt like it just gave me so much so many endorphins that I would then carry out throughout the day and it just felt made me feel so good and I could think more clearer um got way more fitter um toned and it helped me with my endurance on the golf course because if we're playing three or four week stretches and you're walking seven or eight miles a day for you know four days on the trot and then prams and practice rounds and all the traveling as well.

2:15Yeah, I just become way fitter. And I wanted to become an athlete, not just a golfer. And it's really good. It helped me with jet lag. The more my fitness got better, the less jet lag I got. Like I'm more recovered from it quicker. It sounds like you love running almost as much as you love golf. Yeah. Yeah, there was a point where I actually was more focused on running than I was golf. Do you feel that it helps your golf game? Yeah, massively. like it's quite an actually golf's an explosive movement and I felt like running is a bit kind of explosive so I did feel when I was running loads my swing speed and ball speed increased it does have a very beautiful knock-on effect into the rest of your life yeah definitely just just that kind of chipping away at a goal that having the structure in your life the discipline of the sessions really helps me with all kinds of stuff, with family life, with work, with other sports.

3:12You know, what is it specifically about threshold training that you like? You've mentioned that a couple of times. So because Kate, because I was so obsessed with like my time of running, like I used to do 5, 10, 15k runs like all the time, but then I was like running with my trainer Kate and I was sometimes a bit behind her because she was obviously way faster. Like she's an unbelievable athlete. And I was like, how do I speed this up? And she was like, well, we need to go get you tested, see where your threshold is. And then she'll send me over like a weekly program of like two threshold runs a week.

3:47And obviously loads of different runs. Like an LT1 and an LT2. Yeah. And that then would help me beat my time. Because at the beginning of last year, I was at a golf tournament and they asked me, what's your goal for this year? I said, I want to do sub 20 in my 5k time. And I was like, oh, so nothing golf related. I was like, no, that's my main goal for this year. And I got it down to like 20, um, 20.10 or something like that. And I was like, right, Kate, I think I'm ready to do sub 20. She was like, okay, we've planned it in the diary. We're going to go and do it. And then that's when I got that illness and then tore the ligament in my ankle.

4:20So I was absolutely gutted. And that's why I was doing the threshold runs because it was helping me run faster. Yeah. When did you realize that running was this kind of tool that you could use for your golf game? Because I am assuming that despite the fact that you love running, you know, golf is your career. I mean, is there£10 million on the line for the winner of the Open this year? Yeah, it's crazy. I think the AIG Women's Open is the best event for women's golf. Like the stage that we're on, the crowds that we get, the prize money that they put up for us, and just the venues that we play at.

4:55It's just they've done such a good job. That would be such a great day. Yeah. Genuinely. Going out to play a golf tournament and winning 10 million would be just… Well, that's the prize fund. I think the first, the paycheck is… I come second twice in this event. I come second last year. And the payout's really good. But it's just the whole… A major in your home country is just better than any prize check. Just pivoting from running quickly into golf and the money in golf specifically, obviously, huge sport, millions of people very attracted to it. Is it exciting, do you think, because the margin for error is just so slight?

5:40Yeah. And the difference between, you know, somebody that wins an Open and somebody that comes 10th is like so marginal. Yeah. You know, it's kind of like a Formula One of sorts. It is. where just like any edge you can get. Especially at the AIG ones open because it's on the Lynx golf course. And if you get, it's the draw, the luck of the draw sometimes. If you get a morning tea time, no wind, then that afternoon is absolutely blowing. And then the next day, you've got the afternoon tea time and then you could get, it's just all, it's just crazy. Like it's just the luck of sometimes the draw. But last year I was three over after two holes in the first round.

6:24And the bounce back to nearly come and win it was pretty incredible. So it shows you just never, ever give up. And I was pretty impressed by myself because after the third hole, I was like, wow, this is embarrassing.

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8:52Do you ever have like a complete shocker on the course? Yeah, I do, yeah. I mean, obviously, like, you know, we as fans see like Rory McIlroy have a shocker. Yeah. You know, does that happen to you in the sense that you can just completely implode on the day? Well, yeah, I just get more embarrassed. like I go in myself I'm like oh god like what am I doing and there's nowhere to escape because there's like crowds around you and you just feel like kind of like lost but then you just got to put it behind you and don't carry it into your next round so that's why I would literally get off the golf course sometimes and go straight for a run after a bad round because it just kind of clears my head and I think new start for tomorrow I was about to say you know running obviously very well known to be a tool to clear your mind you know to practice your mental fitness as well as physical fitness I'm trying to think of any other sports where like a bad day in your mind can really translate to just a complete nightmare you know because even as you know Formula One racing driver you know you can have a you can have a shocker in the sense that you can spin off the track right but like it's not like one day you're incredible and the next you're not you know it's kind of You're somewhere around your lap pace most of the year.

10:07Whereas with golf, it is extraordinary to see incredible players like yourself and even the people that are consistently always at the top of the game just failing to achieve things that they could do nine times out of ten on a specific day. you now use running as a way of of keeping calm do you do anything else do you practice breath work or anything like that yeah uh breath work um i i was actually doing that a lot at the british open last year in my rounds um and it really really helped me keep calm and not because i'm i'm very fast paced with everything i do like i i talk fast i'm always in a rush even when that i I just move fast.

10:53And sometimes you just need to take yourself out of the situation and just like breathe. And I'd breathe in from my nose and then out from my mouth. And I was doing that a lot just walking down the fairway because in golf, you've got a lot of time to think. You're out there by yourself, even though you can have a chat to Kelly, but in between shots, there's a lot of bad thoughts that can go in your head. And that just like clears it out for me, it did. Have you ever sat and done like proper full-on like breath work where you get like really hot and like almost feel high? No, I haven't. Like tumo breathing or whatever it's called.

11:23No, but I have read, I listened to like a, it was like a podcast and it was about people, like someone was in like, they was in the military or something and there was how they was breathing in for their nose like seven seconds or six seconds and then hold it and then breathe out. And that actually really helps me get to sleep. Yeah, yeah. It's pretty remarkable. I think it's certainly something worth looking at. Because, you know, for many years, I just thought breathing was just breathing, obviously. but it's pretty remarkable what can be achieved with the breath. Yeah, and like different, like in physio and stuff as well, they sometimes tell me to breathe more from down here because I breathe from too high up in my lung.

12:02And I was like, I thought just my lung's my lung. It's pretty crazy. I'm going through a period at the moment of really dialing in to running and, you know, going from being an okay runner to hopefully being a much better runner with some help from one of our guests, Stephen Scullion, who was an Irish Olympic marathoner. And we were doing a tempo session at the track yesterday with some speed work at the end. And I listen to music when I'm going fast, in my opinion. It just helps me. And he told me that my breathing is just all over the place. He was just like, you're breathing completely wrong.

12:37And I was just like, oh. And he kind of taught me to almost breathe out a lot more than you feel you should. so yeah so like so you're literally so you gasp for air yeah at the beginning of each breath yeah and um and he said if you can try and get into a rhythm where it's like you know you're you're kind of bagpiping the the lungs yeah you'll you'll find it easier to to to run hard harder for longer uh because he said my my breathing was very shallow yeah like you know as you're describing no yeah it is interesting because my my trainer kate when i when i would run with her she's always like concentrating you're breathing you're breathing and then um because i've um i always had this thing when i was younger like i i never because i've got asthma i always found it quite hard to breathe so i never used to think about my breathing um but when i was having physio with my physio louise one time and she was telling me like pressing here and she was like right breathe more out of your lung and and you're right it does make you feel like you're almost out of breath a bit and you've really got to concentrate on it but it it it must work I think so so do you think that your I think we can call it an obsession with running is giving you an edge over other golfers yeah 100 % it affects my mood like crazy amounts like sometimes I like a couple years ago I'd be like all down some mornings because I haven't done my morning run and then my boyfriend would be like just go out for your run get it done you're going to be a different person and I come back and I'm like buzzing like bubbly bouncing and it does take that mindset out on the golf course with me because I'm more like positive and I feel just like I have a one-up on everybody.

14:16And I just like it. And I just like being in the fresh air. I just like being outdoors. You have ADHD, no? Yeah. So do you find that having something else to chip away at is helpful for you? Like an obsession. Yeah. Because I want to master it. Yeah. And I don't feel like you can really master running. I think me putting the sub 20 golf in my head was me like trying to master it. And I know I didn't get there last year because of my injury. So that's why I've been doing so much rehab stuff and I didn't realize like how much you have to put in your rehab stuff because I'm not just actually rehabbing for running.

14:49I'm rehabbing for my golf swing as well because it's my left foot. So you're hitting against it and that. And the amount of like, how do I explain it? The shoe, wearing the right shoe. I didn't realize like how much that could impact me because I used to love my old running shoes, but I can't wear them anymore because they've not got the right stability for my ankle because I've hurt it. What did you used to run in? Oh, I used to run in, I can't remember what it was called. It was a Nike shoe. Any of these? It was very similar to… Alpha Fly? The Alpha Fly? Yeah, so it was kind of like, no. See that one up there?

15:26It had like a big chunk underneath it a bit. Yeah, yeah, so like a Vaporfly or an Alpha Fly. That's it, a Vaporfly, yeah. But they said I can't wear that no more. but it's probably not the best running shoe but I liked it because I used to get really crampy calves and I just felt like I could just spring off it a bit it's a bit of a cheat not a cheating shoe but it do you know what I mean it's like a yeah it would have had a place in it maybe a super shoe yeah no it's amazing we love shoes on this show I'm cleanest with shoes but I know which ones I like I'm bad with names and stuff but there was one point I think I've got like I bought like 15 pairs in one go just to try all these different shoes on different runs and my trainer Kate was like, you're so crazy.

16:05I'm like, yeah, no, I just need to master the exact shoe that I want. It is amazing. It's completely a personal thing with shoes. It depends on your weight. It depends on your running economy, on your style, on like where you plant your foot. Because I'm quite flat-footed as well. Yeah, but there isn't an answer to this is the fastest and best shoe. I mean, you know, if you're Sebastian Saway or Kajelcha, then of course the lighter, better racing shoe will probably be of benefit. but to us mere muggles in running world, it kind of, you know, whatever works for you works. I have friends that, you know, absolutely swear by this racing shoe and when I put it on, it literally just rips my shins to shreds.

16:45Yeah, because I found like my calves used to get, but I've got tight calves anyway, so I have to spend a lot of time like foam rollering and stuff. But my calves used to be what used to kill me on like my long runs that then really used to slow me down. and that's why I found when I found that shoe it actually it helped me I didn't get as much pain in my calves I think it's called hyperextending or something I've been my foot my feet have been gradually like rolling more that way so that the outside of my foot is striking first and it's because like I'm literally not using half of my calf and I went to see this incredible physio Gemma the other day and she she to try and figure out what was wrong pinched me between my two toes and it literally felt like It felt like she was trying her absolute best to hurt me.

17:31And I was like, oh my God. And she was like, yeah, that shouldn't be the case. And then she released parts of things. She was like, I'm going to butcher this, but atrophy or something like that, whatever. I never remember what she says. But essentially, the muscle just needed releasing. And that really helped. There are some amazing physios, by the way, that in like one session, you can just see what's going wrong and loosen up your muscles. she acupunctured me yeah I have I have needling every day like every day yeah like when I'm on tour I have because I have a full time physio who travels with me and yeah I have it we warm up before my round and have it after physio after and I my muscles respond really well to dry needling yeah and I actually had I went for my first run last week and we put some needles in after and then when I got went out on the golf course I was like I said to my caddy I was like wow because I've been for a run this morning I feel like my golf swing and my body is just moving way better.

18:28And he goes, really? I was like, yeah, I just feel like I feel more engaged. Like my body feels more engaged just from that run. I completely hear you on the mental side of things as well. Like sometimes when I feel that, you know, you're spinning lots of plates and the world's just a bit heavy and kind of like you don't feel like you have adequate time for your kids or whatever. And like, you know, everything's just piled on, even by creating even less time for your kids and just going for a quick blast of like one lap. It really just like lightens everything to do with kind of how you're feeling.

19:00How much of just elite performance generally? I mean, most people that we chat to in here are some form of elite athlete. You know, lots of them are elite runners. Obviously, you're a golfer. How much of just having an incredible engine and working on that? So with, you know, pace and speed and threshold runs, do you think makes you just a better athlete generally? Oh, 100%. I honestly cannot say this enough, but for me traveling, doing 12-hour flights to America and back and forth every other week, I've noticed my recovery process, because I'm a lot fitter, is so much quicker. Like I can just literally get off the plane and just get straight into it, where before you can feel like lethargic or this or that.

19:47and always on a Sunday of a golf tournament after a couple of weeks stretch, I feel a lot more like it's the first day still. I don't feel so tired and everything. So it just improves everything. But yeah, honestly, I think running's the best thing. Do you take creatine? No, I don't. That sounds like a big choice. Yes, I don't. I've always been told about it and I've done some research into it and stuff, but I've never done it because I build muscle so quickly. And like when I run, my legs, when I'm proper running, my legs go quite big. And I don't like being too stocky. Like if I'm in the gym for two weeks, I got too bulky a couple of years ago through like lifting weights and everything.

20:34And apparently, can it not make you a bit bulky? It can do like a little bit. I think it's good for muscle repair and kind of cognitive function. I just didn't want to look bulky. I've got a thing with looking bulky. I didn't want it to be. Well, you don't look bulky. Yeah, I know, but thank you. But a lot of people went through a fad for it a few years ago, like creatine, creatine, creatine. I just take some supplements. I take collagen supplements because that was really good for the repair of my ankle and just some other vitamins and stuff. But they've got to be clean stuff because we get drug tested all the time as well.

21:06Yeah, yeah, yeah. Talking about physicality, and you've just mentioned your physicality there, Have you found much difference, you know, in recent years with physicality in golf? Definitely. Like you see people, players now compared to 10 years ago, a lot more players are in the gym. A lot more are looking like athletes. And like I used to go to the gym, say like two years ago, I would go to the gym at a golf event and it was a really, really fully equipped gym. Like it was great. And the amount of players that was in there not doing golf, just golf exercises, there was actually doing overall fitness.

21:42and actually look like athletes, I was like, this is actually going in the right direction for the sport. Like, it's pretty cool. Like, because golf was always seen as an old man's sport. Well, now I feel like since Tiger Woods started, you remember he kind of turned it around of like being the first one in the gym and everything. And he looks like an athlete. And I just feel like over the last 20 years, golfers have become athletes, I think. Who's the biggest beast in golf that you've seen in the gym?

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24:55DeChambeau looks like he can bench a few yeah he got really stocky at one point like he looked like he could lift very heavy like he got really muscly but I think he's like he's actually toned it down a little bit now you know what when I was training hard I generally me and my trainer used to train for like two and a half hours a day sometimes like in the morning and then I'll go to the golf course and then train for six hours on the golf course like I was actually pretty impressive like 2024, mid 2024 I think I was doing probably too much but I it was pretty crazy what I was doing because you love lifting as well right so I did love lifting but I haven't lifted in a very long time because I've got a cyst in my spine now so that was like I have to do loads of rehab for stuff like that as well and if I'm lifting weights we don't want that cyst to get any worse because then I'll have to have an operation on it so it's balancing it for me I've got to be very careful of what I do at the minute Did you find when you were into lifting lots of weights that that affected your swing at all?

25:56I actually was swinging it really, really well but I actually felt good once I lifted weights but say that I'd then stopped lifting weights for a month because I wanted to have a break from it my swing actually felt better after that and just doing band stuff because I felt engaged but sometimes I feel like I could get too big and you kind of lose your feel a little bit When I was trying to kind of court my now wife, she is Irish and everyone in her family plays golf and they're massive golfers. I wasn't. So I kind of quickly got into it so that, you know, I wouldn't be left out of the family.

26:32Yeah. Kind of, you know, golfing weekends and stuff. So I, you know, in, I also have ADHD and become obsessed with things very easily and like love chasing goals. And I'm quite a curious person. So I dove straight in and had, you know, played every weekend and got, you know, like loads of lessons and probably got down to like a 15 or something. That's pretty decent. Well, it's not too bad. Yeah, for starting later on in life as well. I'm by no means a good golfer. But I did find that if I was lifting really heavy and really frequently, I've always lifted weights. Like for the last maybe 12 years, I've lifted weights three, four times a week.

27:06Every single week, it's a non-negotiable for me. I absolutely love it. Yeah. Probably as much as running. but I did find that when I would go through periods of wanting to be big and strong when I was running a lot less and basically just focusing on lifting that that would get in the way of my swing I also am just a shit golfer so you know whatever but it kind of I would feel definitely tighter and like less able to kind of rip into it if I was a bit stiff in the gym see that's yeah that's the same as me but I found like then the recovery after that I'd have to do would be a lot more I'm really into like red light saunas or have you been to like a cryo chamber before?

27:44I've never done cryo. Have you not? I like an ice bath. Yeah, no, I do something called the Nordic Cycle. So it's 20 minutes in the red light sauna and then it's three minutes in the cryo chamber and you do it three times. And you feel unbelievable after that. Like my physio would come around after I've done it. She's like, oh my God, you feel like, don't feel as stressed, like as in like your muscles and stuff. I think it's just finding what's right for you and the way your body responds. So I think, you know, from what I'm hearing, you're you're insanely active yeah like you you you love sport you're very into your recovery uh you know having physio almost every day etc um can you take me through like a perfect day slash routine building up to an important tournament say okay so i if this is like a couple weeks out say before the season starts or this could be even a few weeks out before a major I would get home and in my house in Kettering, I've got a gym made, a full recovery centre.

28:47I've got an indoor swing studio. I've got a full golf swing studio. Oh God, I thought you were talking about that stuff where people dangle from the ceiling. I was just like, that's nothing. No. And then got my running machine, got my skier, got everything in there. And then outside I've got my sauna, I've got my ice bath. So my ideal day would be to get up, do all my bands. I do some Pilates because that's good for my recovery. When you say bands, sorry. So rehab stuff, you know, like the bands, the exercise bands. So it's like my physio calls and like turn my muscles on to activate. So I'll do all that stuff.

29:25So my body's in good shape and I'm not going to get injured for when I do my run. And I'm warmed up because I went through years of not really warming up very properly. and I think they've caused a few injuries, do you know what I mean? Anyway, so I'd get up. We're too impatient. Yeah, exactly. I just want to get the hit of the feel of the adrenaline from my run or from my workout. So I'd warm up, do my run, have my, actually no, go to the golf course, have my breakfast, play, practice for a couple hours, do all my putt and drills, probably see my coaches, go out, play nine holes. That takes four or five hours of my day up and then I'll come back again and then I would do more of a kind of like a strength session.

30:09And then I would go and wait a couple of hours because I've been told not to do ice baths straight after kind of training because it can... Kills gains. Yeah, kills gains. Have my sauna, have my ice bath, have some tea and go to bed. Like I just like a full out day of like training, rehab, recovery. Because it makes me feel so good. It just sounds lovely. Yeah, and I've got it all in my garden. I've got it all in my garden. like all in my gym in my house and I love it, I'm obsessed I want to get a red light sauna now in my house because I find the benefits from them like massive what do you prefer about red light than ordinary cold?

30:48so I stone or whatever yeah so I find it's really good for like my muscles and it's got and it's really good for anti-inflammatory apparently that's what my physio said to me and last week I actually had a red light sauna and I had a normal sauna as well. And I just felt, I don't know where I was thinking in my brain, but I did feel just way better for a red light sauna. So, yeah. Nice. I mean, that's half the battle right there, isn't it? Yeah. And it's nice as well. So I used to have an ice bath straight after I trained and I was like, no, don't do that. That's like, no gains from that because you're not really, it's kind of putting a stunt like a, like, so if you lift weights, I think it kills it, doesn't it?

31:29Like an ice bath after that. They say, don't they? Yeah, I mean, they do say. What I've heard is very similar to what you've heard. That when you tear your muscles in the gym, essentially they rebuild themselves, obviously, and become stronger. That's the kind of point of weightlifting. And if you jump in an ice bath, it kind of stops that process, apparently. I mean, I'm sure that if you lifted big heavy weights and you ate loads of protein, you ice bathed every day, you would still probably see some benefits. But I do love actually just going for a run. like say if I went say if I'd done a run not outdoors but a run in my gym and then just literally going straight into the sauna and straight into the ice bath I feel unbelievable after that what would your boyfriend say living with you would be like?

32:13I'm just curious because you're quite you're quite like I see I see some similarity in you and me we always have to be kind of like doing something yeah I always have to be doing something I my mood changes like if I get up in the morning go gym go golf I'm the happiest person in the world but if I'm going golf and gym like later on in the day I'm all like lethargic and a bit not snappy in the mornings but you know just like not quite all there with it but if I got up early I remember one time we went we was playing golf early somewhere down south and he was like tomorrow can you just go to the gym yeah get it done because then you'll have a way better day I was like yeah okay got to put like four in the morning train my trainer at like five o 'clock had a shower got ready gone to golf I was like a brand new person from the day before I had a day off the gym.

32:55I used to dread the day off the gym because, well, he did because he knew that I'd be a bit snappy. On days where I can't train in the morning, I get a message at like 11am from my wife saying like, are you on good form today? I'm just like, yes, yes. Yeah. And I eat really healthy as well. I eat really healthy. Yeah. So when do you, do you ever not? Do you drink any alcohol? No, I only probably drink like twice a year. So you never, twice a year? Yeah, I never drink and I get anxious to drink because I hate the thought of me the next day being like hung over and not being able to do anything and not being productive or just not feeling great because I feel like I notice when I drink now compared to when I used to drink a lot when I was younger I never really used to feel hangover as much but now where I don't drink a lot at all and now I feel like my body's really like clean and healthy I get I feel it more yeah and also like I feel that it's sort of, when you are quite finely tuned, so when you're in a lovely block and you're training really well and you're lifting really well and the speed's coming down and, you know, the heart rate's staying constant and just everything is working really well.

34:07Like, from the mental side of it, I'm aware that a couple of glasses of wine isn't going to like slow me down right like but but it's kind of you almost feel like you're putting um shit fuel in a race car and i feel guilty for it yeah yeah exactly me too so sort of but it's it's sort of like is it actually that fun probably not like there are certain days right like we were in can for the film festival like you know we enjoyed a few glasses of wine yeah this incredible lunch in the most beautiful setting and yeah you know they they hit hard like a treat you know it was amazing yeah but like you know does a glass of wine you know at home midweek do it do the same thing not for me so it's kind of i don't know for me it it feels like i have a car that i love yeah right and i make sure that i only put like incredible fuel in it and i keep it clean that's how i treat your body yeah and i only use like certain kind of racing oil because it's the best thing for the engine and I get yeah exactly what you said I see myself similarly to that see I have this argument with my boyfriend all the time right if he's having a bad day he's like yeah but I want to eat some chocolate and stuff I'm like if I'm having a bad day I want to eat a nice healthy like some tuna or no sorry some salmon and some vegetables so I want to put that good body good stuff in my body and makes me feel better not eating a chocolate bar because I'll be I'll eat a chocolate bar and be like oh now I feel even worse it's well it's it's you know there's something lovely in a chocolate bar yeah there is but I like to save it is he athletic?

35:35not really no would he be upset to hear that? no no he's not he's cuddly yeah but I got him into running last year and he was doing really really good and then he kind of stopped but I was really proud when he was into his running like I was I was buzzed for him but talking about drinking stuff I remember last year for my birthday I wasn't going to do anything and my cousin come round we went for a Sunday's roast dinner we ended up having loads of drinks and stuff and I forgot the next day I planned golf for like it's eight o 'clock in the morning and I woke up at like five o 'clock in the morning and I felt so rough and I punished myself by going for a run.

36:08I went for a 7k run and at the time it was like I got my fastest time and I was dying on the way around and I think I was just punishing myself and running as fast as I could just to sweat it all out. And I was like how on earth did I beat like my 7k time on a hangover? It's because you're kind of slightly switched off as well and the wanting to the wanting to punish yourself will inherently fuel a bit of adrenaline as well. Yeah, yeah. What was I going to say to you? So you strike me as, well, you don't strike me, I think you strike all our listeners as an incredibly healthy person, right? Somebody that really cares about their health.

36:45But you recently gave up smoking. Yes, I did, yeah. So how does that all fit in? It was funny, like Kate, my trainer, used to just laugh at me because we'll come back from, say, like we've done a 10K run and I would just literally, you know, like my little, you know, like the little running vest that you have, I'd just grab in one of my cigarette and my light and I'd be like, you know, we were walking it off. And she's like, you just contradict yourself. I was like, yeah, it's fuel power. No, it's not. What was it about the smoking? You just love the nicotine? Yeah, I've got an addictive personality.

37:19So a couple of years ago, I was like, I was in a bit of a bad place and never ever touched vapes in my life or anything. like that and um I remember just like I think the doctor in America prescribed me some like um as that as anix because I was getting a few like I felt a bit panicky and then I was like I don't want to take these things I chucked them away so I just grabbed a vape and I was like that just kills like the kind of it like just it was it was just doing something it just kind of chilled me out a little bit so then I didn't want to I didn't want to vape because people I was hearing things about like, is it popcorn lung and all that kind of stuff?

37:55And I'm not really, I don't, I never smoked. I never vaped. It was just because of just what kind of the process, what I was going through. So then I thought, you know what? You can vape anywhere and I'm doing it too much. So I thought I'm going to start smoking because I don't want to smell of smoke. My house is going to smell of smoke or my car is going to smell of smoke. I'm going to go outside and have a cigarette and maybe I'll start smoking less. Do you know what I mean? Rather than vaping all the time. And then I started smoking in my car. My car stunk out. And I thought, you know what?

38:22I'm just going to completely end it all because Kate said, I reckon if you stop smoking, you will be able to push for this 5K time and you'll be able to, you know, run quicker. What is the status of the smoking bet? Okay, so last year I was on the golf course and I was going through quite a stressful time and I was smoking a lot. And I was on the golf course. What's a lot? I was like 40 a day. 40? Yeah, 40 a day. and I was, because I was stressed. I was just very, very stressed at the time and I was on the golf course. Sorry, I'm so sorry to interrupt you. I'm terrible. Do you think that that's the most smoking for an elite athlete in the world?

39:04I know, I think John Daly is probably way more than that. Yeah. Like, I don't think there are too many people at the top of their sport that smoke 40 a day. No, I know. And no wonder you're not hitting your 20 minute 5k, by the way. Yeah. No, but I was near at the time. This is, This was over a year ago that this bet happened. And I was on the golf course with James and Ryan one day. And I was like, why am I smoking? I had a go and my dad my whole lifetime for having to go at him for smoking. He smoked 40 a day. I thought, now I'm smoking, but I'm smoking more because I'm stressed. So I turned around to Ryan.

39:38I said, James, hold the camera, please. Now, Ryan. And I said, record this. I said, right, Ryan, today is the day that I stop smoking. Okay, we're going to have a bet, a 10 grand bet. If I pick up a cigarette in the next two months, I owe you 10 grand. And if I don't smoke at all and win the bet, you owe me nothing. I just will never smoke again. And stuck to it. It's pretty easy.

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42:11Where are we with the 5k time today? Still the same as last year because I've not been able to test it or anything yet. I'm still getting into running because my physios said to me, you're a golfer and you're not a runner. So prioritize your recovery and your rehab stuff, you know, getting it stronger for golf rather than running at the minute. And then once it's okay for a bit of a while, I'll get back into your running. And we actually started last week. Have you done any specific running training to heart rate and not pace? Yes. It was like I had Kate. So I used to have a whoop, I did, and she used to have all my login details.

42:54And it could tell, you've got to keep it in like a certain zone, you know, like your zones and stuff. And then I was going to get a Garmin as well. and I never got that far because that's when I stopped running because of my injury. So hang on a sec, so you were chasing this 5K time with no Garmin or anything? Nope. Oh, you're going to find it so much easier when you have access to proper data. Yeah. When you figure out your threshold paces. Yeah, because they'll be different last time because when I went and got them tested it was a place in Redding. Yeah. And because you run, don't you? Then they jump off and they prick you.

43:26Yeah, yeah, lactate testing. Yeah, that's it. Yeah, so get somebody to do it properly for your care. you can probably do it and then and you'll and then there'll be a heart rate that's kind of in your in your zone 3 yeah that will be a kind of like marathon pace heart rate inverted commas yeah that you need to kind of push push your threshold down yeah and you'll find you'll find when you start paying attention to the data you'll be able to you'll get much faster much quicker at the same heart rate and then go and do your 5k what I found what I found with my threshold runs where I didn't really get watching that because when I was travelling with golf and stuff we was just doing the threshold runs on my running machine on the running machine like at the hotel and stuff because I was in areas in America where I don't really want to be running around like a young girl by herself and stuff so I was doing it when I'm at home I would run a lot with Kate but yeah I was just doing it on the running machine and that for my zones and everything but I've been tested a couple times we got it tested every couple of months because obviously my threshold I could start going faster because I was getting fitter.

44:31You'll get it. Yeah. How long do your threshold runs last for? Because mine was like, I was getting to like an hour and 20 hour. Session yesterday was like an hour, about an hour of hard moving time. About an hour of work. So yeah, hour, 20 minute for the session. It's like the warmup. Like sometimes it'll be like a 3K warmup. We ran 3K yesterday and then did 3K warmup at like 4.40s. Then six times a kilometre with 60 seconds rest between each kilometre at about 3.53 per kilometre and then two minutes off and then eight 400 metre reps with 30 seconds off at like speed pace. I was running those at like 3.15.

45:14Yeah. So like 79, 80 seconds laps, eight of them with 30 seconds off. And he, yeah, that was relatively punishing towards the end of that session. But the threshold stuff was fine. The speed work was quite full of them. Yeah, that's good. because I've got every single gym session I've ever done logged in my phone. Yeah. Like I log it on my notes. Oh no, you log it yourself. Log it all in my notes, like all my thresholds, because my training kit will send it to me. And then I'll always write after how I'd feel. Like now if I had my phone, I could go back to, I don't know, March the 20th last year and know what I'd done.

45:50It's pretty good. And I look back at them sometimes and I feel sad because of how fit I got and how this injury has affected it. Yeah. Well, you will. I mean, you look fighting fit. And hopefully you'll be able to get all cleared up. And I'm certain that you'll crack your 20-minute 5K. I wouldn't worry. I appreciate it. I just need to get the right pair of shoes now. Exactly. What would be a good pair of shoes for you? Maybe a pair that's really stable and really responsive. I went and see the podiatrist, you know, to just see how my feet was and everything was moving and that. and they give me these insoles.

46:29And it took a bit of use to, hard to get used to, you know, walking and stuff in. But that was good. But then I couldn't hit golf balls with them in. So it was kind of a bit of a... The Adidas Prime X3 might be good for your running. It's a very stable shoe with quite a big stack and a couple of plates in there. It's fast and it's heavier than a normal super shoe, but it works very well. The running economy is good, isn't it? Yeah. So Charlie, obviously you're somebody who runs for multiple benefits. It's even made you, you know, a better elite golfer. If you had some advice to people listening to this podcast now, you know, regardless of whether they like running or have ever ran before, why do you think it's beneficial for people to start running?

47:13It's made me more confident. I feel more confident when I step it out, step it up on the golf course and I feel like it just makes me feel good throughout the whole day and I just think it helps your overall health and I just love it. I can't say a bad word about running. Maybe for your joints and stuff when you get a bit older but I don't overdo it. Makes me think clearer, makes me want to eat healthier, makes me want to not drink as much alcohol. I think it just cleans your whole life up that's as good a reason as any yeah uh charlie thank you so much for taking the time to come in in person lovely to meet you and uh good luck thank you in the open later in the year i hope you win thanks uh and we'll be in touch yeah i appreciate it cheers