Why were we robbed of an all-time great British Grand Prix?

0:00Up to Speed is brought to you by American Express. there's always more with Amex this is a global production the punishment didn't fit the crime there's this escape clause for Max where would he go? this is a bit extreme I know you know it's b**** you know the rules you know how tiring it has always been wrong throw me a bone please I've heard there's going to be a massive announcement

0:33Up to Speed.

0:39It's Will. It's David. Welcome to Up to Speed. Post-British Grand Prix. Great weekend. Loved watching the British Grand Prix. Enjoyed your commentary very much, mate. Thank you. Thank you. I enjoyed the post-Gran Prix tweet-tastic saga that you created by coming out, you know, As a very influential person within the world of motorsport, you're sort of teaser of some huge news coming out. So, yeah. So here's the thing, right? A couple of years ago, I found out Lewis was leaving Mercedes and he was going to join Ferrari. And I'm like, if I announce what I know, I'm never getting any access to Ferrari ever again.

1:23So I did the one thing you should never do and the one thing that I hate when people do. And I kind of put out a tease, which was like, I've heard there's going to be a massive announcement. like it's going to be massive and um you did exactly the same wording as you did so so this so so after i did that liam who's head of pr at f1 he texted me and he's just like what have you done and that was around the hamilton thing and anyway so later that day ferrari announced hamilton and um uh it's been rumored for weeks right and we even had zach brown on the show last week and he was talking about scott dixon um who is indy cars lewis hamilton right he had been with ganassi for 25 years, won six titles with them, leaving to go to McLaren.

2:05It's huge news in IndyCar because he's been there so long. So I thought, he's the GOAT, right? Same thing as Talmud. I thought, I'll just put out the same tweet because it did quite well last time. So I'll just put out the same tweet and let people know that there's this announcement happening later today because McLaren had told us they were announcing it at two o 'clock. What I didn't expect was for people to automatically assume it was about Max Verstappen. And I probably should have foreseen that, but I didn't put too into it. Or you innocent little thing, you. Oh, no. But after Silverstone and Max retiring again, anyway, so I put that out.

2:42And then McLaren announced it later on in the day that, sure enough, Scott Dixon and Felix Rosenquist, who won the Indy 500 this year, have moved to McLaren. And it's big news in the IndyCar world. I never said it was exclusive. I never said it was a shock. I just said it was a big announcement and it was massive. And it was. yeah buddy you knew you're doing and i also checked uh your your followers on x and various others there's 25 million people reacted to that it's up to 28 oh my goodness well i hadn't checked well the the the hope was that it would get eyeballs on this massive announcement for indycar and um 28 million is is not not a bad no i'd say that was very impressive could i make the small request that next time could you either um tag me personally or even better tag up to speed sorry sorry um yeah yeah but the the mad thing was as soon as i i posted that a bunch of f1 journalists had kind of quote tweeted it or replied to it being like oh yeah yeah yeah yeah huge news coming out today like know all about it and i and so i ended up sitting there being like oh that's a nice coincidence i wonder what's going on in f1 today because i was talking about the IndyCar news.

3:54And I was like, I wonder what, I wonder what they're talking about. But then nothing F1 ended up coming out. Yeah, I suspect a lot of those guys, yeah, a lot of those guys probably wanted to cover their bases. Just in case. Yeah, just in case. Knowing that, you know, you have a very, what's the, you know, your spider web of connections. The fun part though was in the replies and there's been, I want to say 25%, 25%, 50 % split. 25 % of like IndyCar fans Who were like Of course it's IndyCar news Wills lead commentator for IndyCar Also we've known this has been happening for a while I was like I never said it was It was like exclusive unknown stuff I just said there was an announcement The other 25 % were like Ah You bastard You guys You guys And then the other 50 % want me dead I'm sorry Why?

4:44What news were they after? Something that Never said it was F1 mate Never said it was F1 God And of course off the back of what was another challenging race for Max, which was going well, you know, whether he'd inherited the position of P3 or not. You know, the car has progressed. There's definitely been some movement there, but another failure saw him leave the circuit. And then Max never holds back when he's being interviewed. He said, this is unacceptable, all that sort of thing. And I think a lot of people think, oh my goodness, this means there's a massive fallout at Red Bull. But actually, if you just go through everything from when he was at Toro Rosso, which was the junior team for Red Bull.

5:24Max has always spoken his mind. He's always said exactly what he's feeling at that time, his truth. And the relationship has continued thereafter. I think the reason that people are putting two and two together and maybe getting 30 out of all of this is the big talk this year has been there's this escape clause for Max in his contract, which comes into effect at the summer break if he's not in a certain position in the championship, which after that retirement, he now can't be. And therefore, if he wants to spring the clause and exit, then theoretically it's now possible. Whether he will do that, whether he has done that, only he knows, right?

6:04Only Raymond and Yoss and those guys. Raymond's his manager, Yoss's father. They're the only ones that know if that has been done or if they are intending to do that. We don't. So I think that's why everybody's getting quite het up at the moment but the question remains mate and we've had this discussion where would he go yeah well he can go anywhere he wants it's max verstappen if there's a space but well if there's a space and zach was adamant when we spoke to him yeah he doesn't have a space and he's very happy with his too yeah look race teams are they will they will say what they say up until the point let me give you a little example uh when i was at williams uh the sir frank williams uh told me something the evening before which completely denied a set of circumstances would happen the following morning those circumstances happened i went to him and said you told me last night they weren't going to happen and he went yeah i lied to you you're one person i employ 700 people there i have the responsibility of paying their salaries and they pay their mortgages and all the rest of I am not going to be pushed and pressured into telling a truth to you to satisfy your needs.

7:19Yeah, exactly. And when somebody tells you like that, a sporting lie or a business lie suddenly becomes an acceptable thing. So I think we're so used to our politicians telling their truth, which may turn out not to be the truth. And I think that's the same as sport. But I think that I just want to address the thing about clauses to leave. When I was, three teams I drove for, Williams, McLaren and Red Bull. At any point, in the same way that James Hunt walked away from, was it Wolf Racing after Monaco Grand Prix when he retired? No one can force you to drive a racing car. No one can force you to do anything.

8:01They can stop you going somewhere else. But they can't stop you walking away. Yeah, exactly. I think Juan Pablo Montoya at McLaren famously walked away after the American Grand Prix. Exactly. You'll always find a solution. So I think, you know, those who don't know get so hung up on, there's a clause, as if that is like a hangman's noose ready to be tightened. People will go where they want to go. There'll always be a solution. In sport, people move on very quickly. Racing drivers are light bulbs. The moment they stop shining brightly, they are replaced. there is no emotion that's a great line you're welcome great you can use it in america now we've used it over here oh i love that love that um we've got a lot of questions in the gang behind the scenes were telling me that they have never seen so many emails come into the show so quick after the checkered flag um and at silverstone they all flew through immediately after the checkered flag, particularly about the safety car.

9:03There were indeed. And one of the first that came in was from Ali Oliver. And he said, that was the worst ending to a Grand Prix I've ever seen. All info saying safety car in next lap. And it stayed out. Why? Who do you believe is ultimately responsible? And how can they ensure this doesn't happen again? And there's a follow up question from Natabiso Nekub. I'm sorry if I'm not pronouncing that correctly. Was George going to be able to hold off Lewis if the virtual safety car ended with one lap to race a lot to unpack there DC go for it to unpack that well um I wouldn't say it was the worst ending to a Grand Prix ever we've seen Grand Prix's end under the safety car before I think the confusing thing was the fact that on the screen and listening to your commentary you guys believed that we were going to get one lap of racing everyone around the world believed we were going to get one lap of racing but we weren't because they hadn't allowed the lapped cars to unlap themselves and per the regulations they need to do that catch up to the back do a lap and then you go racing so dull and so so dull kind of something that we must be able to find a way around so can i just at that point i feel this is going to be like a bit of a ping pong between what you've experienced this and and what my feeling could be we have a almost six kilometer racetrack we have an incident in one corner of that racetrack a safety car is deployed pretty quickly once they've decided that the car is not going to be able to get out of the gravel we then spend a few laps waiting on the pack catching the safety car and then once it's with the safety car we then wait for the the race director to tell the drivers that they can overtake the safety car it all just takes way too long we're formula we change wheels in 2.2 seconds or the world record previously was 1.8 seconds we develop the fastest racing cars in the world.

10:53As soon as the safety car's out there, they could start that process. Yes. Because you know with the GPS data where the cars are on track, as long as people respect the speed at which they're going through the double yellow area, it's completely within our possibility to do that whole process faster. It would have avoided Abu Dhabi 21 and it would have avoided what we saw there at the weekend. Yes. So there's a number of things here. Completely agree. I think so long as you are changing up the order when you're not within that very small part of the circuit that the incident is in, what's the issue with that?

11:27Get it done. Since moving over to IndyCar, I've discovered the way in which it's done over there. And it's actually very, very good. And it works incredibly well. Kyle Novak, who's the race director over there, gives us a briefing before every weekend, the same as the drivers receive, where they go through the processes. so the drivers are aware and teams are aware every single weekend of what will happen in this exact scenario of you know moving drivers around getting the right order um we have a an amr safety team that is on the scene of every incident within seconds just as you have the the medical crew in f1 as well they're very very good at getting rid of of incidents very very fast but then in terms of the reordering so there's a there's a process that happens at a normal part of the race but um in indycar there will be a set number of laps which changes race to race depending on the distance that if you are within those those number of laps to the end of the race let's say it's 10 right then rather than the reordering happening in in a way that it might in f1 where everybody disappears off into the into the distance the lap drivers just drop to the back so there's it's super super easy they just say just drop to the back you're out of the equation for the win just drop to the back and pretty much your day's done so just be done and off we go and we we finish the race and that's why you don't really see a race finish under caution in the states because it's set up for that could you do that in f1 possibly but then you're always going to have drivers who said well if i've been able to catch up the lap maybe i could have passed on that last lap or whatever there's another theory here which is let's say an incident happens within the last 10 laps of a grand prix is there an argument that it should be an immediate red flag correct yeah bring everybody in and then you go out and go racing so you're not wasting time and wasting laps under a safety car trying to get it sorted out on track rebuilding barriers dragging cars out of gravel whatever it might be yeah do you do do you do it that way yeah i think that that is a solution and I think that that would sort of give them the chance to reset everything.

13:38I also think it's not beyond the capabilities of Formula One to do it on track and to do it quickly. There's only 22 cars and that's assuming they're all running at that point. It isn't that complicated. These are the best drivers in the world. They drive at 200 miles an hour, a few feet, inches, meters, centimeters, whatever you want to use, off the back of another car and yet somehow when there's an incident in one corner, it's like they're, you know, kindergarten kids and we have to really treat them in a way that you're not allowed to do certain things. And we'll lead in later, I'm sure, to the penalties that happened, which I was a bit frustrated.

14:16I just think, and I think some people maybe misunderstood this when I said, look, we're an entertainment business. We've got to have an entertainment element to the end of a Grand Prix. But of course, not at the cost of the integrity of the sport and the rules and regulations. But there are solutions that could help us not to finish under a safety car, which leaves the crowd mild. It doesn't leave the crowd going wild. So there's another thing that I experience in the States, which is that as soon as a full course yellow is called, the pit lane is closed. You can't come in and change tyres. You're stuck with what you've got.

14:55Quite like that. I've never been a fan of under red flag, you can fix your car or change your tires because that's a firm reset, which I'm not particularly keen on. One thing from the States that I don't like is what they have in NASCAR, which is if you're running under caution and you hit full race distance, they'll run overtime. Because obviously you can refuel and all that, so you'll get an extra couple of laps and then go race. But I'd argue it's the Daytona 500, not the Daytona 505. you know so and it's you know i like the fact that the distance is the distance and i don't think we should be messing around with over time and you can't do that in formula one anyway because there's no refueling you fuel to the race distance and some teams dc as we know the slower teams if they think they're going to get lapped they'll under fuel the car for the number of laps they think they're going to complete rather than the full race distance so you can't you can't go adding adding laps but it's interesting to look at ways in which different championships do it and maybe take influence from it.

15:54Maybe we do just drop cars to the back. Maybe you closed, because if you closed the pit lane and people couldn't be coming in and changing tyres under a safety car, then you wouldn't have to wait for those laps for the order to shake itself out before you then asked the lapped cars to drop themselves back. If pit lane is closed, the order is set and you can immediately go about resetting the order. Yeah, like George stayed out because Lewis came in and that gained him the position. And I think that everyone accepts, including Mercedes, that had the race restarted, Lewis would have very easily passed George.

16:25Yeah, breezed past. But instead of Ferrari having an amazing 1-2, they got a 1-3. I think one thing we do have to say is that the FIA were true to the regulations. And even if it was a bit messy and the wrong messages were put up on the international broadcast, they did at least stick to the rules. And as Toto Wolff said afterwards, you know, I wish they'd done this in Abu Dhabi 2021. and just as you I found it very interesting that you know I was looking online and you've got your Lewis fans being like ah we just you know we just wanted the last lap we just wanted a race and I was just like you weren't saying that five years ago you know you can't have your cake and eat it too well you mentioned FIA there was a couple of penalties which I felt were harsh the Lewis sneeze of his Ferrari the car definitely jolted a little bit so when you were saying this on commentary I was shouting at the TV I was going was like come on dc that's bullshit you know it's bullshit you know the rules you know the rules yeah but anyway i i think that he hadn't gone outside his box no but it's as soon as you know come on man you know as soon as those lights go if there's any movement inside the box it's a slam dunk yeah it's a slam dunk and it doesn't make it right anyway i felt it was harsh one thing one thing i will say is what about lewis's reaction times because anybody else gets that that little leap and then they pull the clutch right the start's done and they're and they're dropping back for him to have the awareness the speed of of young hands reason young hands to pull that clutch keep his brain in it still get the start that he did i thought that was was absolutely phenomenal yeah so he he was well on his way to a podium which he got but well on his way to potential second what might have been you know for the for the win but uh but brilliant and you know 250th win for ferrari at the scene of their first ever grand prix win it was it was lovely but um now going back to that start like just the reaction times from lewis to to have that little move save it and still be able to make the monster start he did chapeau but rules is rules mate you know coming up kimmy antonelli should he have been penalized at silverstone dc thinks not what do you think and what do you think about the safety car chat what's the solution how do we fix it uh contact us at up to speed show and subscribe as always on youtube

19:01Hi, it's Greg from Alberta, Canada. At the risk of upsetting Jolie for picking on her crush, my question is, should Kimi Antonelli and or Mercedes be investigated for the release of an unsafe car? At the time that Kimi heard that there was a possible infraction for track limits, I think he said on the radio something to the effect that he was unable to maintain control of the car. Yet he's pleading on the radio with Bono to stay out on track to fight for that possible single point in 10th place. Curious to know what you guys think about that. Very much enjoy the podcast. Keep up the good work.

19:39Cheers. So I guess the question really comes down to, is he a danger to himself or others in staying out there? Clearly, the shield on the inside of the wheel, aero shield, had become detached. And that's what's been stopping him from turning the steering. They didn't realize that at first because they changed the front wing. They obviously saw an aero loss, which is understandable because it's blocking and redirecting the air. They discovered it after that stop, brought him back in again, didn't they, and then removed it. So I understand the question, but I don't feel he endangered anyone else.

20:15it's the it's the it's the the penalty is for um it's uh you know releasing an unsafe car isn't it's an unsafe release well they didn't know at that point they've changed the front wing you could argue they've brought the car in they saw an aero loss on the front and he's complaining that he can't turn the car so they've changed the whole front wing unit released the car they haven't released it looking at it going oh that's not right yeah they've then realized knowingly done it yeah exactly so let's remind ourselves that although we are not getting all the footage all the time. They've got a team of people back at base, they've got people in the pit wall, they would have been analysing that data.

20:50They would have then very quickly have seen on the video there's something not right, identified what the issue is, then brought the car back in. So what you could say is they've reacted quickly to the knowledge they have. If you don't get a wheel fitted right, but you think you have, and the car goes out on track and the wheel falls off, you are still susceptible to a penalty for releasing a car in an unsafe manner that sort of whether you knew about it or not doesn't come into the equation no but the i hear you on that but they do have systems in place to say that the wheel and the nut and the gun has not torqued the wheel properly so when a car is released without that having green lighted that's a breakdown in communication so they do actually know even before i'm just playing devil's advocate even before the wheel falls off yeah they they they know but in in kimmy's um case he'd gone off track three times already when you're off the fourth time that triggered an automatic just applying the rules as the FIA do five second penalty but I I feel that the punishment didn't fit the crime now bear with me on this yeah this is this is a really interesting one because when he went off track it's because the wheel shield is blocking the steering he's gone off track rejoined he hasn't endangered anyone then they've rectified the issue i just feel that in racing things happen and if we're always just going to paint everyone with the same brush then it would mean this is a bit extreme i know but it's a bit like someone getting the same jail sentence for manslaughter than for murder there is a definition difference because there is a difference if you move house and a bill gets sent to your old address and of course you don't You don't live there anymore.

22:36And then six months later, you've got someone tracked you down and you're going to court for an innocent mistake, which is just a communication error. That doesn't seem the same as actually deliberately trying not to honour. It's like if you're racing wheel to wheel with somebody, right? And they are a little bit naughty and they push you off track. Is that a breach of track limits or is that not a breach of track limits? No, it shouldn't be a breach of track limits because you've been forced off the track. Because you didn't do it of your own volition. If your car can't turn into a corner because there's damage on it and you run off track, that's not the same as leaving the track and gaining an advantage.

23:12Well, you could get a puncture. Lewis Hamilton won the Silverson Grand Prix with a puncture. He could have gone off track on that in lap five times or four times, won the Grand Prix by four seconds, had a five second penalty applied after the race and lost the Grand Prix. as it happens he didn't go off track he didn't get the penalty but would that have sat well with the crowd would it have been seen as a heroic bring your car home well and also could he have faced a penalty for driving a car in disrepair around the track because theoretically once a car's in that condition you have to pull it off the racetrack and you know leave it at the at the marshal post there's got to be common sense that life isn't perfect right life isn't yet we try and apply these perfect set of rules and regulations to an imperfect world.

23:59And that's where it falls down. And you want to be entertained. There she goes. There she goes. You have to find the balance between regulating in order to make it fair and safe, but allowing the freedom within that regulation to entertain. what is more entertaining than a driver on three wheels completing a lap it's heroic and bingo bingo heroic so he is heroically wheeling this car that he can't turn into a corner because that you know the brake shroud is is coming up um you know and he then gets gets penalized for running off track trying to bring the thing back to the pits yeah i'm with you i think that's a bit harsh yeah look what was interesting is it's the only time we get to see how young Kimi is with his radio messages it was all good stuff that he wanted to stay out and I like the fact that he wanted to fight for those points but you can tell he gets a little bit flustered which is in contrast to the way he drives yeah it's you don't see many mistakes you don't see a lock-up you don't see the car snaking around we're told by Mercedes he's got a slightly more aggressive driving style than George but you're not seeing that in his sort of hand action on the wheel so I think the kid is still super impressive I still think he's the one to beat every week I mean you looked at the pace that he had this weekend until he picked up that damage and I think he was probably in line to be catching Charles and put on a you know proper fight for the win at Silverson he's everywhere we go doesn't matter the track he's the man to beat now um talking about driver messages i did like the one from lando on the last lap did you hear it i didn't know he said and this just shows lando's young as well right but anyone who thinks that lando doesn't know his history of formula one this will say otherwise he asked if he could come into the pit lane and finish the race in the pit lane and do a michael schumacher and basically cut the field and and win the race under safety car It was brilliant.

26:03But that happened. Because Michael did that back in the... Was it 94? No. 95. No, later with Ferrari. I want to say 99. Okay, I think it was earlier, but our research team will come back to us. Yeah, it was definitely with Ferrari. If I've managed to get a date right over you, I will feel pretty good. Maybe it was 98. It was Benetton. It was 98. It was one year out. No, it was Benetton. No, it was Ferrari. Are you sure? Yep. because it was a it was a it was a Jean-Tot Ross Brawn play oh god you're right again you know how tiring it has always been wrong do you know throw me a bone please sorry mate I got the wrong year I got the wrong year but yeah but I love that Lando Lando remembered that little bit of history he was like I just want let me just jump in the pit lane and I will cross the line first and we'll win the race on the safety car bloody good idea but you can't do it anymore just actually a quick recap on on Silverson some good news stories there.

27:00Good news, the RBs both in the points again. Colopinto, shout out to him, coming from way back. So I was kind of lukewarm as to just how good he was initially because the results were not showing relative to Gasly and I just deal with the facts. I deal with stopwatch and checker flag, but is he coming good right now? When you mention the two RB drivers, it's you know, and going back to the Max Verstappen will he won't he where will he end up question mark Red Bull do find themselves once again in a quandary where they have too many drivers for their seats because if Max stays or gets swapped out for another driver or whoever if you know rumors to be believed Hadjar I'd argue is probably the best teammate Max Verstappen has had since Daniel Ricciardo in terms of how close he is to him so Hadjar's doing stellar job Linblad stellar job Lawson stellar job and then you have Nikola Solov in F2 who has just won three races in a row including back-to-back wins feature in sprints.

28:03It's very hard to win the feature in the sprint on the same weekend in F2 because of the reverse grid. He did it at Silverstone. That's three races on the bounce now. They've got another driver headache. Yeah, it's a good problem to have. I guess there's always a possibility if they're happy with the others that they could help position him somewhere else. I think Red Bull are ahead of the game in terms of their motorsports investments and drivers over the history of time if you look at what they've invested and now what the valuations are so I don't think they're thinking oh we're getting to the limit of what we can afford to invest in this so it's a good problem to have but I think yeah listen for that name Nikola Tozlov from Bulgaria drives very well is great personality out of the car as well So yeah, looking forward to seeing him in Formula One.

28:55Lovely stuff. Up to Speed is on the road again on Sunday. The Goodwood Festival of Speed. There will be a live show on stage on Sunday with Naomi, James Vowles and Damon Hill. I can't wait to hear that. Yeah, it's going to be great. It's going to be great. What are you doing this weekend? Just a little marriage in Scotland. Nothing, nothing too much. Just a casual one. Just a three day bender. Nice, man. Have a lovely time. Congratulations. Thank you very much. It's my daughter's third birthday party. Oh, awesome. It's a Disney princess theme. She's going as Cinderella. I've got a little Prince Charming outfit for her little brother.

29:34How will you do going as? I'm going to be going as Gus, the fat mouse. And that, folks, is all we've got time for. Follow us at UpToSpeedShow. Email us, uptospeed at global.com. And as always, new episodes every Monday and Thursday. DC, thanks for popping in, mate. Many congratulations. Have a fabulous, fabulous wedding. I hope it's a huge success, mate. Definitely. Someone told me you should marry your second wife first. And given that DC will be in no fit state to record an episode on Monday, Monday's episode will be the Sunday live show from Goodwood. So join us for that. on Monday. Up to Speed is brought to you by American Express.

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