London City impress, West Ham thrash Liverpool and we get the inside scoop on SK Brann feat. Curt Baker

0:00Welcome to Upfront, I'm Chloe Morgan. And I'm Rachel O'Sullivan. London City Lionesses lost to Man City but impressed in the process. Are they on their way to Europe still? If they are even allowed to play, that is. A couple of rule regulations, Michelle Kang is going to have to figure that out with UEFA. Plus, Vivian Assay scored two as West Ham thrashed Liverpool and made the Chigwell Construction Stadium look like New Camp. finally we're joined by product lead at foot mob and sk brand fan kurt baker who tells us more about the former england youth coach spurs assistant and crystal palace manager laura kaminsky's success in norway um rache obviously i feel like the start to the season was so so strong for us within the studio every single week it was a really powerful one then i decided to piss off to vietnam and take some time out and find myself and then you're obviously jet setting around the globe having these like lovely holidays we're also mixing it with a bit of work and now where are you where have you gone why can't i see you this week in person i'm in zurich for a fifa digital summit uh got here last night leave tomorrow morning um so yes i'm i'm very tired but glad we're able to still record the beauty of the digital age so so business i feel like switzerland's one of those kind of like super like businessy districts where so much like formation regulation and kind of rules and bits go down um so let us know uh next week on the pod what kind of insider fifa secrets that you've been privy to because i feel that um it's a bit of a hot mess over there right now with uh infantino at the helm um right before we get stuck into a few of the games this weekend let's get started on your moment of the weekend rach what what have you got okay i have one that's my moment of the weekend but i have like i want to give a shout out I want to give a shout out to Niamh Heron for Birmingham because not only did she score a lovely goal as a defender she's been having a really really good season with Birmingham she made this unbelievable goal line clearance where she kind of was like facing backwards flung her leg up over her head and cleared the ball off the line that way and that was before she scored the goal and I know they lost to Tottenham but I think she deserves a shout out because I think she's been brilliant my actual moment of the weekend is Julia Dragone scoring her first goal for Chelsea and her reaction she was like in tears it was this really really sweet moment and I saw it on like the Barclays um highlights and clips and stuff like that but then Chelsea put it up with this like really emotional music and all this it was really sweet it was lovely to see and um those special moments are always nice uh when they happen in football so that one is is for me.

2:41It's a really heartwarming one mate you really like that. Mine, I've got a couple actually thinking about it because there's one that I think I've got to give a shout out to London City Lionesses because I think the way in which they've handled the comms and the social media campaign around Alexei Puteus winning the Ballon d 'Or is an absolute marketing masterclass. It's not Alexei, it's Ballon d 'Or. It's actually London City Lionesses and the rest of the squad's Ballon d 'Or. But it was lovely. They obviously had the Ballon d 'Or trophy down in Bromley. they had you know you could have a picture with the Ballon d 'Or trophy which is like a once in a lifetime type of thing and obviously there was such a fanfare around it and I feel like it was a really kind of um they're creating quite a lovely atmosphere down at down at Bromley so so credit to them for capitalizing off the back of that um and then the second one has got to be Drew Spence making a top appearance in the WSL of all time 34 years old um she started in Spurs this game against uh birmingham city making her 217th appearance in the competition she overtook millie bright um and could become the only outfield player at tottenham to play 90 minutes in all of their wsl games this season so yeah drew spence congratulations because that is no mean feat especially with how competitive it is um and you kind of you see sort of the older players kind of kind of you know leaving their careers and started to go on to other things but but Drew Spence is one of those like stalwarts of the WSL, like a real true solid person.

4:07And I think, you know, you can see the kind of impact that she's having at Spurs. So yeah, congratulations to her. Right, Rach, it was a bit of a spicy one down at Bromley this weekend. London City Lionesses lost, but they looked so formidable. I was so impressed with how they took the game to Man City. I mean, this is one of these games that on balance, I think you always thought that Man City would win, but I didn't think that the threat that London City would pose to Man City would be so... I was just so impressed with it, so impressed. It feels like in the first couple of minutes, you've already got, I mean, Yana Fernandes, my God, there's nothing this woman cannot do when she's on form.

4:53I think within the first 10 minutes or so, she'd already kind of had, there was a great bit of build-up play. She's already taken a shot. It just goes wide of the post. and then just before half-time you've got this kind of floated ball in and then Fernandez can't just turn it into post and it feels like she's the one who's nipping at Man City's heels and poses the most amount of threat. But what did you make, especially in that first half? Because it felt like the London City show and Man City couldn't quite get a grasp on the game too much. Not that they were out of it, but it felt like it was a bit of one-way traffic initially.

5:22Yeah, I mean, I feel like Manchester City are never out of the game, but I agree. It was like London City dominated all of the stats except the one that mattered and that was the goals. I thought they were super. I think we knew that they were going to come out and press high. That's been one of their biggest strengths this season is their pressing game and their ability to sustain that press for extended periods of time. And I just think Man City were on the back foot. They had a chance, what, 30 seconds in or so? I think Manchester City having Rebecca Knack back in the back line, her and Jade Rose had a really good game.

5:56I thought, you know, they were like brick wall at points. And I think massively helped kind of stem the wave of London City attack in that first half. You could see, though, like the frustration. Sophie was pitch side for this one. And she said, you know, you could see the frustration of Edna Maestro on the sideline, that they weren't taking their opportunities. And against a side like Manchester City, you know, I mean, you say this about any side, but in particular Manchester City, if you're not taking their chances, they don't need many. Three shots on target, two goals. they are clinical. And that is, you know, exactly what happened.

6:30Yeah, 100%. I think, I mean, Ada Maestro said Man City were more mature, while his side had extra nervousness in the moments that we needed to be more clinical. And I think that is, that's the part that I think is still one of those things, like to get and to remain in the top three and to kind of push on and try and be considered title contenders. It kind of does feel like the clinicalness is one of the things that London City do need to really hone in on against those top opposition sides. I don't think they struggle so much against kind of like the mid tables and the bottom of the tables, but against those, yeah, actually, yeah, to be fair.

7:02Yeah, no, fair enough. But it does feel like missing those opportunities and especially in a game like this where it will come down to fine margins, it will come down to that one goal. I mean, you had chances for, I think it was Fernandes, Daniela van der Donk, Izzy Goodwin, Diani, Puteas. And then there was just nothing by the first half to really show for that. I think I saw the stats at London City went into halftime having had 12 shots, nine of them inside the box, but only two on target. And I think it's that that London City, it then comes back to kind of bite you in the arse a little bit because that one goal could have made a big difference and at least got you a point in this game.

7:39But I also would say, it's not just the ruthlessness. I would say there were kind of moments defensively where they obviously switched off. I mean, they only took a kind of ball that they weren't really watching the back line. They weren't really marking their players to find that Bunny Shaw, again, I mean, she's the kind of person that you want to take out of a game. If it means, you know, three of you are surrounding her and she can't get the ball, that's absolutely fine. But you know that she is the person that's going to create those chances, if not by scoring that goal, but by setting it up.

8:03So I do feel like switching off, especially around a key player like Bunny Shaw, that's also something that needs to tighten up on. But I mean, what did you think, Rach, defensively for London City? Because obviously, I mean, it was a good display, but not a perfect one. Yeah, it was perhaps a bit of naivety and, you know, that kind of almost desperation to convert that you know you think okay we've we're kind of we're dominating possession here we've creating the more chances we've got 49 touches in the opposition box to Manchester City's 13 like you know it was I wouldn't say one-way traffic necessarily but it was almost they were so kind of okay we're creating we're creating we've got to get something that they kind of almost forgot that like Manchester City have the best forward in the world and you know some unbelievable wingers and can turn the game so quickly and she can be so effective in front of goal and only needs, I mean, I say only needs one chance, but more often than not, Bunny creates a huge amount of chances.

8:57And she wasn't, to be fair to her, in the game. She wasn't getting a lot of chances. She wasn't getting a huge amount of service. She was looking a little bit frustrated, but you cannot switch off on Bunny Shaw. And she showed that, she punished them. So yeah, maybe it was a little bit of naivety and a little bit of that kind of desperation to turn their performance into a result, which I completely understand, but like you say you cannot switch off and it's funny there was like almost like an element of of nervousness which was weird to see with the quality and pedigree of player that they have in their team but they're coming up against the champions who won the FA Cup and you know it did feel like there was a little bit of a this is the opportunity for us to really lay down a marker and yeah yeah I just that it just kind of felt like that I think it's that it was kind of um it was a like I said it was kind of a really good defensive performance but it has to be almost perfect if not 98 99 percent if you want to win against a team like Man City and you want to make sure that a threat like Bunny Shaw like Lauren Hemp on you know running riot and I think even I mean there was a Bunny Shaw chance that even she even missed like hit the post I mean that that those kind of like that's a warning sign that's a massive warning sign for me but it kind of did feel like once again we're talking about the Bunny Shaw Lauren Hemp show um being the difference for Man City in this game I mean 52nd minute Lauren Hemp puts this awesome three ball into into Bunny Shaw rounds the keeper smashing it into the roof of the net like a classic Bunny Shaw goal making it the ninth WSL goal in eight games uh creating so much distance now between her and the rest of the kind of um WSL goal scoring pack I think the the nearest ones are now um I think it's Oceana Hertra on six goals and Pulova on six goals um but it kind of felt like she was just nipping and like you said she didn't get many chances but when she did they were either in the in the back of the net or hitting the post and it's just it's just bunny shore just living her best life this year i think um i mean i found it a bit disappointing that she was third in the ballon door and i'm finding it even more disappointing now that bunny shore and lauren hem did not make it into thief pro shortlist for the world um 11 which was revealed last night i mean there's been a lot of controversy around this list regardless because it kind of doesn't feel like it's reflective or representative of the talent across the world I mean Rach you've got some thoughts on on this list and how wrong it is just yeah it's a bit disappointing isn't it it's voted for by the players as well isn't it so um what's going on surprising how can the experts of the game not get it right well I mean just because you're playing the game it might make you an expert in kind of the actual playing of the game but it doesn't necessarily mean you've got all the time in the world to be watching lots of football I will say maybe it means the journalists aren't the worst selectors of you know top players but yeah I think a surprise in some that were not in it and a surprise that some that were in it it was definitely it definitely made you pause and look at it again and wonder if maybe the wrong thing had been put out Who was your biggest surprise Rach?

12:06I think one of the short not being in it Lauren Hemp I don't want to call out players who are in it I mean I feel a bit bad but some players who were injured for chunks of the season or was more of a substitute impact sub throughout the season players like that being listed but I think more the lack of certain players like Bunny Shaw Lauren Hemp who had superb seasons to not see them in there was a huge shock 100 % yeah no I think that's I think that's really fair mate very balanced and pragmatic of you in you know going through the list of who should be in and who shouldn't be out um one person who got a start in uh first league start for london city mary erps um it's so lovely to see her back and i think like you forget or like i've definitely forgotten kind of the personality that she brings to a game because you just know like throughout the entire game like she's one of the most communicative um players that i've ever had the misfortune of playing against and she's i think she's just i mean every time we played man united in that that first couple of seasons of the championship it was just like I don't want to be on the pitch I don't want to be anywhere near this ground um but she's so communicative she gives the fans so much personality like she's bringing the energy even when the ball is absolutely nowhere near her and this particular game she had absolutely like one of the most incredible saves from her to deny um Rebecca Knack at the I think it was about 30 40 35 40 minutes in um this header at the back post it's been flung in from this like lovely delivered kind of um free kick she's unmarked point blank claws it out of the net and then manages to get like she's falling backwards into there she then manages to get a hand to like push the ball out that's kind of almost it's like halfway over the line or so and like it's just like and then like you can tell afterwards you know like keepers aren't supposed to be like happy when they make a save like that and you always have to do like you know proper stone face she was proper stone face yeah but she was like what the hell did she never have come to me I don't even want to touch the ball this game what the hell is wrong with you like but it's like that passion that she has and I really miss her presence I mean Rachel how did you feel kind of having a having a back to having a back to Earp's ways it was a throwback it was like it was it's nice to see her back on the back of the pitch over here but yeah the swagger you talk about was certainly still there um the aura that she has when she's between the sticks and yeah when she makes saves like that it's a real kind of like yeah like kind of like yeah I'm back I mean talking of aura rage it kind of feels like this city game that the tale of two cities essentially but do we feel like London City because of the performance they put in against Man City because it was so tight because there were points in the game they actually thought that they might win um this because of how kind of especially the first half like how um rampant they were trying to get the first opening goal do we feel like now you know the third place they're in a champions league spot currently I know it's early doors but they look strong a little bit lacking full full consistency and doing switching off at moments but we do we think they're actually legitimate title contenders if not the very least they've got to be securing a champions league spot this year and I would just caveat that with can they get a champions leagues what this year um because of course they'll be um having to contend with the ua for regulations around two teams that are owned by the same company being in the competition michelle kang obviously owning leon um michelle kang will of course just trying to figure that out probably at the end of the season when things are a little bit more known but i mean yeah what are your thoughts with um title contention and champions league qualification for city i think pre-season At the beginning of the season, I didn't want to put that pressure on them.

15:49And I'd said that even if they don't finish in the Champions League spots and they finish fifth, fourth, it should still be seen as a successful season. Now I think, yeah, they're showing they have the credentials to be in that Champions League position. I still think title is a touch too far, especially now given the gap. I think before this game, we were talking about the gap between third and fourth opening up a bit. but because of the result the gap is now kind of opening between third and second and that gap between third and fourth is closed now down to three points so I do think Chelsea Man City are kind of going to be running away with the title race perhaps might become a two horse race you know we love an analogy but yeah London City will be snapping at their heels I think for a little while I mean it is a two game difference now it's six points but no I think they're showing their worth they are still they can be got out at the back I think if Manchester City had been on firing form if the likes of Vivian Miedema had been in the squad and they were able to play that kind of dynamic football we've seen them play you know I think they could have maybe got out London City's back line a little bit more but I think yeah they're just improving I want to say week on week they weren't great against Liverpool but you know areas of their game are improving they are looking sharp they really stood up to Manchester City and I think if they could play like that more regularly then yeah they could definitely cause problems.

17:12I think it's that you know like you've got your Chelsea and Man City and they've won titles and they've gone through bad spells and they've had the experience of being crap they've had the experience of being really really good they've had the experience of going through injuries they've had the experience of going through you know having to compete in multiple competitions and trying to deal with squad depth and things like that and that comes from being a part of the the top echelons of the WSL for five six seven eight nine years. London City whilst they still have this obviously this awesome bank of players they've got loads of investment behind them there you know they're doing super super well they still don't have that kind of um consistency I think that I see Chelsea and Man City having and I think like you said like when you're looking at the points difference even though it is only six points it's essentially only two wins between them it does still feel like that is a big gap between them weirdly enough though that same six point difference if you look at the the the bottom end of the table so if you go from London City or on 16 and then minus six points it takes you all the way down to Aston Villa on on 10 points uh in in ninth that doesn't feel like so much of a gap because it kind of feels like there's still so many of the games that are still could go either way and six points isn't a lot but I feel like six points between Chelsea and Man City is is a different ball game so the likelihood of those top teams dropping points is slimmer than the teams in and around you dropping points 100 % I think that's that's the concise that's the concise version of actually what I wanted to say so yeah I think title contention this year would be a bit of a mad one um but I think definitely Champions League spot um on the other side of that then what is it about Man City that London City and other teams in Europe are able to exploit because either they Man City have obviously had a incredible run at the start of this year coming off the back of last year and that that being obviously um a really incredible year for them they had their third third draw of the Champions League last week against PSG obviously all tough games so far the previous games against Real Madrid and Bayern Munich.

19:06They've won every game but one in the WSL. So it doesn't feel like they're struggling domestically. But when we take them out into Europe, obviously really tough opposition. That's the caveat here. But it does feel like there are weaknesses that the European teams are able to exploit. And can some of the WSL teams be learning a little bit more from what's happening in the Champions League? Well, I think Manchester City haven't looked the same as last season. and they haven't looked as dynamic. I think part of that's down to the injuries that they're dealing with. And I think what's been key for them is that they're still getting the wins.

19:41Granted, they have had that one draw, but they are being exposed at the back and they are conceding. And I think, you know, that's something, that's probably their big area of weakness. You know, some of that, I think, down to the fact that Rebecca Canack was out injured and we've spoken before about that Rose-Canack pairing and how good it is. And now she's coming back. Perhaps we'll start to see that tighten up a bit. But like, as you say, they have played their toughest opposition in the Champions League. The whole point of the Champions League and this format was that it is meant to be more difficult.

20:11But yeah, maybe just finding that dynamism and that fluidity midweek is tough for them. I think the PSG game wasn't great. It was a little samey-samey and they were just kind of doing the same things over and over and it wasn't really working. And it was a little dull, if I'm totally honest. But, you know, some of that can be down to the fact that they are playing so regularly. So are PSG. and just maybe learning to juggle that, I suppose, particularly with the injuries they have. Yeah, no, definitely. I think, yeah, it does feel like it's two different arenas that we're trying to find the same Man City in and they're just completely different spaces, essentially.

20:49Coming up after this, Rachel saw West Ham play like prime Barcelona.

21:08Rage. Sorry, when I saw this go into the running order, I understood the reference that you were obviously making, but it did give me pause for thought and a slight chuckle here. Was the Chigwell Construction Stadium Camp Nou on Sunday? it was obviously an incredible incredible game Vivian Essay getting the brace West Ham up 3-0 by half time should have been 4 100 % I mean what did you make of this complete and utter destruction within half an hour really of Liverpool because I thought this was going to be a bit more of a battle head to head a bit of a testy one very competitive and it just felt like Liverpool didn't really show up and West Ham decided to absolutely run right and enjoy themselves with it?

22:03Bizarre. It didn't go the way I was expecting based on previous West Ham performances. I have said, I said at the beginning of the season that I did think West Ham have improved this season and I thought they played so well against London City. But up until then, that had kind of been their best performance. And, you know, I think they've lacked a real consistency, barely turned up against Chelsea, and barely get out of their own half against Chelsea. I think it's another team, maybe a bit like a Manchester United who are benefiting from the Players' Cup. And after a disappointing performance against Brighton, that Players' Cup maybe gave them that confidence and that bounce back and that kind of belief.

22:42And yeah, I mean, they were doing things that I've, you know, criticised them for not doing in the past, taking their opportunities, starting games quickly. They had an intensity about them that Liverpool could not handle. and I think getting the two goals early on, I think, you know, kind of within 15 minutes, they were 2-0 up. It just kind of, it seemed to kind of push Liverpool back and they couldn't kind of impose themselves on the game the way they would have liked. I think what really impressed me was how intense West Ham were at the beginning of the second half. Like, you'd be forgiven 3-0 up for maybe taking your foot off the gas a little bit.

23:17And I asked Rita Guarino about this post-match and she said that was something she said at halftime is that they cannot afford to do that. They have to keep that intensity up. And, you know, Vivienne Essay hit the bar in the first half. A chance you probably would have put your house on her scoring. They could have been 4-0 up. They had other chances. They could have been 5-0 up in the second half. So, so impressed with them. It's the kind of performance you want them to be doing more regularly. And I think, you know, Leila Wanderer had a super game. Her first goal, the second goal, was superb.

23:50Started and finished by her. Obviously, Vivienne Essay, we know what she can do. And Enrico Eki is back. She came off the bench for them, came off the bench midweek as well. And I think that's just going to add to their confidence, particularly given they're facing Manchester City at the weekend. I think that's what I want to see is the confidence that they take off the back of this because it surprised me actually when I was looking at the stats around this game. So they only had 39.5 % of the possession overall West Ham. But what they did with it, it kind of felt like they were just swarming Liverpool in moments that it made me feel like they should have been 60, 70%.

24:23It should have been a completely reverse stat to me. I mean, 16 shots to Liverpool's 12, and then eight shots on target to Liverpool's four. So, you know, they were continuously knocking at the door. And I think that's what I found almost a little bit confusing, if I'm being honest, because it didn't feel like a West Ham that I'd really seen do that. They came into the game as if they were Man City, top of the league, you know, best goal scorers ever, you know, really flying, come off the back of a couple of, you know, a couple of big trophies last season. that that's the energy that West Ham went into this game with.

24:54And it was beautiful to see, but I just wasn't expecting it at all. Neither were Liverpool. Yeah, but that's the thing, isn't it? But is this perhaps a say being kind of indicative of West Ham? Because it's the consistency that I don't know what I'm going to see when I turn up to a West Ham game. So before this game, they'd scored five and seven league games. Two of those came against London City Lionesses back in September. And then obviously a shed ton of those goals come in this particular game. But prior to this, it's just like, could you not just adopt this mentality when you go into all of the other games going forwards or like what was missing for you in those previous games that you now found?

25:32Yeah, I mean, Rachel, how do you explain the inconsistency of this? Because like when you look at, I mean, even the chances that were being created, like you said, that link up between Wondela, Pubell, Asahi up front. It was just like they'd been playing together for years. There was this like symbiosis and magic between them. And they knew exactly where each other was going to be. There was these kind of like moments where they were all finding pockets of space. Again, Rach, I think coming back to your point, was very Barcelona-esque. It was tiki-taki football. It was in the back of the net, direct.

25:59They were going direct on so many occasions. And then even Laia Kadina was like, oh, do you know what? I've got the confidence in me. She just fire one off. And then obviously it took a deflection. But it's like, I wouldn't have seen that in West Ham prior to this game. But Rach, please explain this to me because I don't get it. I don't get it. I wish I could. I do think a lot of it is down to players kind of maybe finding some form and confidence. A lot of players stood out. Cascarino, I think Nadine Reeson gives such a threat going up the wing. I thought Wanda did a really good job of kind of dropping back when she did come up.

26:36Una Sirin has kind of forced her way into the squad now. Kumagai was on the bench. Katie Zellem is playing really well for them. They're a real leader. Vivina Say as well, obviously her quality, but she is a real leader on the pitch as well. And I feel like some of the players in their team are real confidence players. And when they're in form, like in SA, and you can see the confidence in her, you know, she's standing tall on the pitch. It kind of affects the players in and around her. I don't know. You know, there's an element they want to turn, you know, Chigwell Construction Stadium into a bit of a fortress.

27:07Maybe that added to the confidence a little bit. But I also think part of it was maybe Liverpool underestimated West Ham a little bit. and they've obviously played performed well in previous last previous games but not gotten what they would have liked out of the games and maybe they thought if we go in and perform like that again West Ham are a team that we can turn this into three points against and I just think they were second in everything and and when they were on the back foot couldn't really just couldn't get a foothold and so yeah look I don't know how to explain it I don't know how to explain why teams can be super inconsistent because if I was a fan of said team I'd be like go out and play like that every week please and I don't know how you get that mentality to do that every single week I think it's that I think um I think you're completely right that it was it was West Ham on on flying form and then it was Liverpool coming out and in fact just not coming out really just not showing up I think you know you look at some of the goals and how they were created it was the basics that I don't think were being done at all even kind of the um which one was it was the the Laika Dina shot from from outside the box she is able to pick up the ball outside the box no one is around her she's able to take a touch look up towards the goal take that shot and then obviously it takes the the massive deflection not Keaton's fault I think she's wrong-footed by where she thinks it's going to go but in that building build-up play none of the Liverpool players are anywhere near that ball they're not touched tight they're not trying to shut down um that that shot they're not trying to shut down like Adina and it just feels like where are you there was no passion and no energy and I think even the um in the 15th minute there was Wunderla was, she was completely unopposed, just allowed to kind of stride half the length of Liverpool's half without being engaged.

28:46No players around her, no one trying to get a tackle in, no one even trying to body her off the ball or kind of present any kind of, you know, like, just nothing. And it just feels like Liverpool weren't present. And I think even there was a couple of situations where Puba was completely unmarred. Liverpool, I think, when they got into the box, were so narrow that they weren't actually going out to kind of cover the threats on the left and the right-hand side of the pitch. And I think when they then became so narrow, there was almost confusion about who they should be marking. Actually, the congestion in the box wasn't a good thing because it wasn't stopping the shots going past.

29:21It was kind of like, OK, well, I don't know whether I'm supposed to be zonal marking, whether I'm supposed to be picking up a player here. It's just... There was no form, I don't think, with Liverpool. Yes, and I think, look, Liverpool fans will point out that they're dealing with injuries to key players, the likes of Kerry Holland is still out, for example. But given the performances we've seen from them, where they played really well against Tottenham, got a draw. They played really well against London City, just about got a draw. They're playing well and maybe not turning those good performances into results.

29:54So yes, I appreciate that there are injuries and they're dealing with those injuries. But if we'd seen Liverpool play like this over the last few weeks, we could maybe attribute it to that. the fact is they have been putting together decent performances and perhaps just not capitalizing on it this was like a different it was very uncharacteristic and just like a different side altogether I I didn't understand it at all but like but like you said rage it was one of those games maybe that's just an anomaly yeah I think um I mean obviously Gareth Talley doesn't seem to be that that concerned about it he's insisted that performances have been good like you said rage it's not you know it's not like they've come off the back of you know just not showing up and not doing the basics for weeks and weeks and weeks so maybe it's just a it's just a slip and every every team in the WSL has one so but they've got Arsenal next week at Anfield so just an easy one to get straight back in yeah yeah yeah um this result took West Ham above Liverpool into 10th um so now there's kind of like middle section where there's probably like what three four points between you know the the third place team well the fourth place team to about the 10th is is looking pretty pretty spicy one game between 6th and 11th there's three changes everything um which is actually quite nice to see there's a lot to play for every single week like you want to be getting up the table so yeah i actually think it would help it helps mentality to be that that tight um coming up after this an english manager wins silverware abroad

31:22now we wanted to speak about a former WSL manager making a name for herself in Norway because a former England youth coach Spurs assistant and Crystal Palace manager Laura Kaminsky completed a league and cup double with Bran this weekend here to tell us more about it is a friend of the pod foot mob brain and brand supporter Kurt Baker welcome Kurt thank you so much for joining us on the pod today yeah thanks for having me where whereabouts are you recording from today we always

31:50Curt Baker: like to know yeah i'm recording from bergen norway best place to tell braun's story i was gonna say that it couldn't you couldn't have picked a better place to to have this this discussion um obviously there's been so much kind of um attention around laura kaminsky and what she's gonna do with with bran and you know she's um weirdly enough i uh was with laura when i used to play back in um spurs as she was sort of coaching the academy set up and sort of she was looking up to Karen Hills and Juan Amoroso at the time and kind of looking to make her mark and hadn't yet obviously been to Palace and did what she did there.

32:25But I think one of the things that I absolutely loved about her was the kind of the personality that she had and the way that she has with sort of building those relationships with players as a very kind of what you see, what you get manager. I mean, she tells it how it is. She's very honest. She's very down to earth. There's no airs and graces. And I think that's probably why, So I don't know, she's seen so much success in kind of building those relationships and getting the best out of players. But obviously she took over as head coach back in Jan. I'd love if you could just sort of share a little bit about her story since then, because it's obviously been one that's gone from strength to strength.

32:58Curt Baker: Yeah, so Laura came in as Leif Smeru's replacement, which is funny because he replaced her at Palace. and Leaf had come in halfway through the season last year after Martin Ho left for Spurs and he couldn't have done better he had a 100 % record, 13 wins from 13 won the title, awarded manager of the year and then last winter he left by mutual consent you know, we all know what that really means so Braun despite being the title holders were kind of in a strange position where people were wondering about the direction of the club who were they going to bring in and she had kind of some really big expectations ahead of her and I think when she first came in people were really impressed by her CV Braun isn't looking at just winning the title in Norway and winning the cup in Norway they want to be in Europe they want to be in the Champions League They want to be testing themselves against the best teams in Europe.

34:09Curt Baker: And she kind of came in with a CV similar to that of Martin Ho. And then, you know, after that, she really just hit the ground running. They've conceded eight goals all year. They've lost only one match this season. And when you look at her points per game record, it's right up there with where Alexander Strauss was before he left for Bayern. it's better than Martin Ho ever had in a full season you know she won the double she's nominated for manager of the year like you really couldn't ask for more and I think it's interesting that you mentioned her personality because she is direct and honest but at the same time understated if that makes sense like she's not doing a ton of media she's not out there kind of building up her profile she just kind of gets to work and I think that's been really appreciated and has obviously been extremely, extremely successful.

35:07For our listeners benefit, you touched on it there, Bran won the top flight last season. It was their third title, but I guess a little bit about their history that people may not know in terms of how they came about because technically they've only been Bran for a few years.

35:23Curt Baker: Yeah, so they're actually relatively new so they became braun got a women's side in 2022 and what they did was there was another local club in bergen sonviken which is a pretty historic club in women's football here and they agreed to become part of braun instead of braun starting from scratch so sonviken actually won the title in their last year as San Vic in 2021 under Alexander Strauss. And then in 2022, won the double. And then, you know, double again this year, the title last year. So in a very short time span, you know, they've become one of the dominant forces in Norwegian football. And of course, they had that amazing run through the Champions League a couple of years back with Martin Ho, where they drew against Lyon and played Barcelona in the quarters.

36:15Curt Baker: So in a very short time, you know, they're probably the most known Norwegian club side at the moment. I feel like there's starting to be this kind of real big connection between sort of Scandinavian football and the WSL and specifically also to Brandt too. Obviously, like you mentioned, you know, Martin Ho was a manager before being at Spurs. And then you had Leif Smerud who replaced Kaminski at Palace and then joined Brandt after he left Palace. and then obviously we've had you know big superstar sign-in sign-in sign-in gawpset to spurs massive you know high profile players come out of brand last year um what do you think it is that the sort of wsl clubs are seeing out in scandinavia because it feels like now they're starting to really use that as a bit of a fishing expedition to find this this top talent and also like you know like you said brown in particular yeah and i think the norwegian league and scandinavia in generals really well placed for WSL clubs to go fishing.

37:11Curt Baker: All Norwegians speak English. They're used to rain. They're used to cold. I think they just adapt really well, to be honest. And across Scandinavia, there's really strong national team setups, especially relative to the population. Promising young players are getting a lot of minutes and they have opportunities to play in Europe and kind of be put in the shop window, so to speak. So I think that's worked really, really well for Norway and kind of getting talented Norwegians out into Europe and playing in the Champions League and for top clubs. I remember going over for that trip to Bron and watching Signec upset and before we'd even finished the game, texting Sophie saying, I think we might remember this name.

38:03I think we might see her in the WSL soon. Sure enough.

38:06Curt Baker: Yeah, and Braun really got on the radar after that first title win in 2022 with Elizabeth Terland and Lisa Nilsson went over to the WSL. And then, as you mentioned, Sydney Gapsett kind of announced herself to Europe during that Champions League run and then had an incredible domestic season the year after, which would have been the season you came and visited. So Braun have really got on the radar as kind of a hotbed for talent, and they've done really well to bring in not only kind of promising young Norwegians from around the league, kind of plucking them up, then they also do their own kind of fishing expeditions in what is maybe a tier below Norway.

38:51Curt Baker: So three Finnish national team players are in the squad, always have a couple Icelandic players top scorers from Glasgow City Brenda Lovera who is American actually then they also have Lauren Davidson who's now a regular starter for Scotland and she already mentioned in the summer she won't be renewing her contract and has said her dream is to play in the WSL so I would expect that will be a January move for her. Interesting what what is the health of the of Norwegian football right now how would you assess it yeah it's kind of mixed I think in terms of player development we're going to continue to see more and more Norwegians in Europe in the WSL and you know as we've spoken about Norway is developing a ton of talent for a country its size five million people and it's it's in the spotlight it's trendy but I think at the same time domestically there's been some issues around the top clubs especially financially Volarenga who were in the Champions League and played against Bayern and Arsenal a couple of years back they weren't able to pay their players on time in October they've loaned money from the supporters to keep the club running during the season keep them liquid which is crazy the team with the most titles in Norway LS Co which is where Guru Reiten is from if you've seen the memes the last couple days about how she's won the title in every season she's played that club will cease to exist after next weekend and another team is taking over their license but then Braun are really well run a newly promoted team Ullison they met Braun in the cup final they'll finish second in the league so there's encouraging signs too and there's there's really big ambitions from the Norwegian FA they want to be a top six league and they've said they want to be fully professional by 2030 but it is clear that there's some growing pains along the way I think you could say.

41:08Do you feel like the the sort of FA that the federation need to step in a little bit more to support some of the clubs because I mean you've mentioned sort of some quite serious sort of um financial concerns that that you've got with with some that aren't able to support themselves and then you know relying on loans um yeah is the is the federation kind of doing enough to support these clubs yeah and i think it's um it's kind

41:28Curt Baker: of an interesting position in norway because there's not really external investment so the clubs are mostly you know fan run so for example braun wanted to switch to artificial turf which you can imagine in the rainiest city in Europe. And the fans went to an annual meeting and said no, and they voted it down. So because of things like that, there's not a whole lot of external investment, not the environment that people want to be in, but great for fans. So I think that makes things difficult from a financial perspective. And I think the FA has set a lot of goals, they've restructured the league this was the first season with 12 teams they're trying to bring more into that top division there's new TV deals here but I think it is in a bit of an awkward transitional period where they're trying to shake out what clubs actually need in order to, for example, if they want to go fully professional by 2030 that's a pretty big leap from where the league is today I think they need a minimum Eight team players need to be professional, but at the same time, a lot are still studying on the side, working on the side.

42:42Curt Baker: So there is a way, a ways to go, I think. For Bran and Laura, I guess the only negative coming out of this season is that they didn't qualify for Champions League. Is that a concern? Like how important do you think that A, that Champions League money, but also, you know, the exposure as well can be? Yeah, I think, you know, for a team like Volarenga, who's in financial trouble now, like that Champions League money kind of would have solved a lot of problems for them. Braun are thankfully pretty well run, so they're all right. But the Champions League money at this level is enormous. Nothing domestically can compare to that level of cash coming in.

43:25Curt Baker: But I would say, you know, especially for Braun, it was very disappointing from a sporting sense. So they have an expectation to be in the Champions League each year, to be competing in Europe each year, to be seen as a leading club in Europe in terms of developing talent and being an emerging club there. And I think especially given their path this season, it was hugely frustrating that they didn't make it. They lost in that kind of final playoff stage to Austria-VN, 4-0 away after being up 2-1 in the home leg. And when you've conceded eight goals all season domestically and you concede four in one match to go out of Europe, I think that was pretty brutal.

44:11Curt Baker: Or to go out of the Champions League at least. They do have a pretty favorable route in the Europa Cup. I think on their side of the bracket is Real Sociedad, who are not having a great season. Frankfurt, which would be tough. But, you know, otherwise, I think Laura just seems to go on and win that. It wouldn't surprise me. I mean, knowing her and how determined she is and obviously the success that she had. I mean, she was part of the sort of the promotional squad when we went up into the WSL. And then obviously with what she did with Crystal Palace within a very short space of time, too. So, yeah, it really wouldn't surprise me that she that she's found this success and she'll probably carry on doing it as well.

44:51oh, I need to touch base with her actually and just check in and say hi because it must also be incredibly stressful to maintain so much success with every club that you go through. But Kurt, I really, really appreciate you giving us the time today to give us a bit of an inside track on what's been happening in Norway and especially with Brian as well because it's not a league that I suppose a lot of our listeners are exposed to quite a lot and definitely not us either. So yeah, it's really nice to kind of see what goes on over there. yeah so thank you very much for your time and we'll definitely have to have you have you back

45:22Curt Baker: on very very soon yeah thanks for having me thank you so much for listening to this episode of up front you can find us on instagram and x slash twitter i'm at morgy underscore 89 rach is at girls on the ball and we are at up front underscore pod you can also find us on youtube at up front pod see you next week

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