Man City deal Arsenal another blow, London City Lionesses have arrived, and the World Cup is calling

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1:53Rachel: Welcome to Upfront. I'm Chloe Morgan. And I'm Rachel O'Sullivan. Man City came from behind not once but twice to beat Arsenal in a 4-2 thriller and potentially end Arsenal's title hopes. We'll discuss that and Renee's comments. Speaking of statement wins, London City Lionesses have well and truly arrived. 6-1 against Spurs. But what happened to Martin Ho's side? and finally we look ahead to all of the pressure fixtures coming up in this international break because it's now or never for world cup qualification

2:33Rachel: Rach before we get stuck in obviously I'm still in Vietnam it's finally started shitting it down I feel like my luck has run out I was at the beach this morning having Vietnamese coffee enjoying my life living my best dreams and and wild aspirations being on a beach somewhere and still getting to talk about women's football. But yeah, then the heavens opened and it was a short, sharp shock to my reality. But what's life like for you back in England? Because you've had a lovely, lovely weekend.

3:03Chloe: I don't know if we were looking for sympathy there because you'll be waiting a while. Can I just say as well, Vietnamese coffee, real nice, isn't it?

3:10Rachel: Oh, unreal, buzzing. Honestly, it was like three miles down to the beach. I could have ran home because the quality and the strength of the beans is incredible and the sweetness. It's like, I felt like I was high. It was like acid.

3:22Chloe: You might be having something else. I don't think I had that when I was there.

3:25Rachel: Yeah.

3:28Chloe: Yes, I had a lovely weekend. I had a lovely week, actually. It was my birthday on Wednesday. And then three days later, we were having a party for our 10-year wedding anniversary, which is coming up. It's not quite yet. We have to last another three weeks, so fingers crossed. But no, we had a lovely party. And you're touching on the weather there. It was 20 degrees, Chloe, down here in Folkestone. And we were kind of a victim of that because the place looked empty because everyone was outside chilling by because there's a lovely outside bit. So any photos I have from inside, it looks so empty because everyone's like relaxing outside and because the DJ like was right by the door and stuff.

4:04Chloe: So everyone was able to enjoy that. But no, it was great. We had the biggest cake I've ever seen because I ordered one for like there was it was either for 30 people or for 48 people. and we were having around 40 people. So I thought better more cake than not enough cake. But my God, it weighed about, I don't know, a stone of just cake. But no, we had a great time. I would recommend anyone to come down to Folkestone. I had a lot of people coming in going, oh my God, I did not know Folkestone was like this. This is so nice. And also where we had it was Bruin Brothers. A little plug for them because they were brilliant.

4:36Chloe: Their staff were so lovely. They were kind of getting involved in the party as well. So it was a really, really fun evening, but I did pay for it the next morning.

4:43Rachel: yeah good like you should I mean celebrating 10 years worth of marriage is no mean feat you are by far the longest standing lesbian relationship that I know of and despite my antics as the Camilla of the relationship it continues to thrive and get stronger and stronger and I am incredibly gutted that I was not there to give a dramatic uh speech uh and congratulations again um right let's get stuck into the football then before we get stuck into the actual games themselves let me know what your moment of the weekend is i'm gonna go for the ruby mace brace

5:19Chloe: um great to see everton scoring the wrong goals first of all did i take yours yes same mind go on you you tell me why you were picking it i i picked it because it felt like there was a lot

5:34Rachel: of questions being asked about her sort of being possibly left out of the squad and serena viegman maybe overlooking, you know, the impact that she's had. And then obviously scoring this super sharp finish after Yuka Mamiki hit the post. And then her second being the winner, this gorgeous long range shot, took a double deflection. But it just felt like it was a great story of the weekend because it kind of felt like whether, you know, Ruby Macy's knocking on the door of like wanting to get into this England squad and kind of, you know, make her mark and, you know, be a part of the World Cup cohort.

6:06Rachel: and it feels like this was probably a really good time to have picked out a moment to deliver such a cracking performance for Everton. And now I think it kind of does put her a little bit more on the radar and give Serena possibly second thoughts for the next squad selection. So yeah, I thought like massive, massive, you know, it would have been disappointed for her, I think not being a part of the squad and then to respond in that way and show that maturity and come out all guns blazing and do that for the team, I think was, yeah, it was really, really impressive to me, especially for someone so young as well, like to you know it's it's hard to go through those kind of rejections so yeah credit to her is was my take on it sorry to take over your your point no i think that's uh all good points well

6:46Chloe: made and i also just think it was nice for everton to score their own goals um they're up to fifth and they've only now just scored their own goals so uh not own goals their own goals so that was exciting as well um and i also think sometimes when teams go through patches of not being able to score when someone hits a long ranger like that it just reminds them that you know not Not everything has to be walked in and you don't have to panic around the box. Sometimes just take that long range effort and it can work out. And it did twice. So that might kind of loosen them up a little bit in front of goal, perhaps.

7:17Rachel: No, I agree. I like the fact that we've actually collaborated on a moment of the weekend, to be honest. And that was completely like we didn't even speak about the weekend before we even started recording. So if I was both to choose, that is pretty strong. Finally, we're on the same fucking page for once. So great. right let's talk about Man City beating Arsenal in what can only be described as a bit of a ding dong Man City coming back from behind twice to beat Arsenal 4-2 at the Etihad Stadium it felt like quite evenly matched and actually there was a large section of the game where I thought this could go either way up until the goal started started coming in but what was your take on the first kind of opening 20 minutes Roach?

7:57Chloe: I actually think they probably started better against Chelsea in terms of dominating the opening 20, 30 minutes. Ding Dong is a great description of it because it did feel a bit like that because, I mean, Arsenal had slightly less possession, but, you know, better XG, more shots created, more shots on target. But Manchester City equally, you know, were looking super dangerous. So like you said, it did kind of feel like you didn't really know which way this was going to go. But given everything that's going on with Arsenal, you weren't sitting there watching it going, oh God, they're going to get battered.

8:26Chloe: Do you know what I mean? Like it very much felt like they were. well yeah it very much felt like they were in the game and it felt like a really it was a really enjoy for a neutral to watch it was just a really enjoyable match it's what you want out of these games um so from that respect i thought it was yeah a ding dong is a great description of it it was like a like a chess match or a boxing match do you know i mean

8:43Rachel: no definitely and then it kind of felt like okay well lisa borm who i think i feel like one of those players who has started so brightly for despite the kind of cloud that's kind of happening at arsenal at the moment she's one of the people who kind of presents this kind of ray of sunshine coming through that because I feel like her intention to go forwards like what she's the chances and opportunities that she's actually creating for Arsenal I feel like the fans are really behind her at the moment as well so it didn't feel like much of a surprise I think when they got that first goal 43 minutes and I was a bit annoyed actually because it kind of came from a sort of almost like dead ball situation Russo did her absolute best to try and make something out of it but I was annoyed almost that Russo wasn't in the box to kind of get on the end of the delivery that she then ended up delivering in then you've got a lot of Wibamoy obviously with the header and then Bournemouth as well kind of you know get into it first and kind of showing that tenacity that I think has been slightly missing from Arsenal on the top line um but then it was so

9:33Chloe: it was so freaking short-lived well I was mid-tweet at saying what a good time it was for Arsenal to score like just before halftime I think this is a really great time to score to like delete that oh no this is a great time for City to score so um listen I think it also shows just the the mentality is city, the caliber is city. To get knocked down and immediately respond. Lauren Hemp is on another planet at the moment. I feel like over the last few seasons we keep saying, oh my god, is this the best of Lauren Hemp? And it's like, no, because next season she's even better. I also just think sloppy defending from Arsenal.

10:09Chloe: I know we spoke about this last week and we kind of had a slight difference of opinion in terms of how Arsenal have been defensively because they hadn't been conceding that many goals. And now they have in the last, in Champions League and this game conceded a couple of goals at four against Manchester City and they were just switched off a little bit a bit naive I think I thought Emily Fox gave Lauren Hemp way too much space and I know the angle was tight but it's Lauren Hemp so this guy it was almost as if like oh if she doesn't like she won't get a shot on target it was just a bit of a lapse in judgment and the same thing we haven't got there yet but for for Hemp's second goal again you know and Fox is normally so good But again, just a really poor attempt to clear with her head and just completely mistimed it, leaving her with acres of space.

10:55Chloe: So, yeah, there was a little bit of naivety, I think, from the Arsenal defence.

11:01Rachel: No, 100 percent. And I feel like it's we're sort of seeing maybe an increase in goals, but it does feel like actually it's the back line that's kind of really getting under the spotlight, especially in this last week. I mean, it was only, you know, last week we were kind of in this massive, massive discussion around what happened with Paris FC. does it not just feel like that's kind of a, almost like a symbol, I think, of how Arsenal's fortunes are going at the back line? That's something like that. Because there's still a lot of debate about, okay, well, like the referee's decision on that matter.

11:30Rachel: But I mean, what was your take actually on the decision?

11:33Chloe: It's not a harsh decision because it's the rules. Like it can be frustrating because, you know, you can understand why a player, because now, you know, players are taking these, often taking goal kicks and they're doing it from such a short area from the six hour box. But ultimately, the rules are the rules, and she handled the ball, and it was a brain fart moment, and you can absolutely be frustrated by it. But yeah, like you say, it just felt like it just summed up what's been going on at Arsenal. And like you say about the defence, one minute they've gone, oh God, are we starting to maybe fix the problem over here?

12:04Chloe: We've got that hole covered, and then suddenly it starts to leak over here, and you're like, oh, literally, the defence is starting to leak. And it just, yeah, it feels like they're struggling to kind of get... Like an Arsenal whack-a-mole. basically they're struggling they're struggling everywhere and I think yeah it could be frustrating for Arsenal fans because they might have thought oh god okay we're starting to score some goals now I do think maybe there is also a correlation between Steph Cattley getting injured and Lottweben Moy and Leah Williamson now being the central pairing and now they're starting to concede more goals so that is also a potential I don't want to say the only reason but that is you know those two things happen at the same time so whether it's just taking them a while to click or whatever it might be.

12:47Chloe: I don't know. But yeah, it's not ideal for Arsenal now to have to be, you know, plugging another league.

12:54Rachel: Obviously, Caldente then goes off with what looked like a kind of hamstring injury. She's now withdrawn from the Spain squad for the upcoming friendlies against the US. And before we talk about Man City, we have to talk about obviously the ongoing conversation with Renee Slegers and everyone talking about whether her job is safe but it is reportedly safe while she's still under pressure she continues to manage the media well although rachel obviously have some differing views on this so just to set a little bit of context so on friday she explained why she didn't fulfill her media duties after the paris fc game and it was quite a brilliant spin it was a it was a pr coup i think after this game uh she then said at the moment we're not in the conversation for the title race um but it doesn't feel like she's fully written herself out of the title race it just feels like at the moment obviously the the the pressing issue is trying to get Arsenal back to winning ways and becoming a consistent side again let alone talking about kind of points and titles and contenders etc etc it's still very early days but in terms of kind of her job safety rage I mean there's a few people saying that it obviously should be under threat she needs to be brave with selection um and I think when you have this kind of bad run of results obviously people do point to the manager But I think I've been saying time and time again on the pod, I don't know much more that Rene can do apart from get onto the pitch and walk the ball into the back of the net.

14:17Rachel: Because it feels like there's been a lot of games where Arsenal are doing the right things, creating opportunities. And then just the end result is either it's hitting the crossbar or going slightly wide or it's a misplaced passing to the wrong person. It just feels like it's like the things that players should know to do, especially at this level and especially with the calibre of players you've got. And especially when you've got this bank of awesome players who happen to be in your up front and attack in line. But Rach, where's your head at with sort of sliggers and how she's trying to hold on to a job, keep things quite calm, deal with the media at the same time.

14:48Rachel: I mean, there's a lot on her shoulders at the moment.

14:51Chloe: Well, I would agree with you to some degree until the Chelsea game and the Man City game. And I think those games exposed frailties tactically. and I think the substitutions were poor, the timings of it were poor, there was confusion in the Chelsea game about who was going where, you know, and I think that's different to Arsenal completely dominating a game and creating 30 shots and two on target. You know, that's different. I think these two last games, you know, have exposed a little bit those frailties. She is understandably being questioned and I think it's natural if this is the way the team is going and they come out early on saying, we want to win trophies, we want to win the title, we want to get back to where we were and you're in 10th after five games, absolutely understandable that the manager is being questioned.

15:34Chloe: I know many think she should have a bit more of a reprieve given they won the Champions League. And I do think she's a good manager. I think they're going through a bad patch at the moment and that does happen. So it is natural that the manager is under scrutiny for that. I think after the Man City game, she handled that question about whether they were in the title race so well under, like that was just put to her and she had ready, at the moment, we are not in the conversation. And that is such a clever way of not saying we're out of it. She is factually saying, at the moment, we're not in the conversation.

16:06Chloe: She's not saying we're out of the competition entirely. And some were saying it was the same thing. It's not. It's not the same answer. Saying, yes, we're out of the title race, and at the moment, we're not in the conversation, are two very different things. And I thought it was a very good answer. I was irked by the post-match in Paris FC. I can understand the frustrations and the way it was spun I feel like by Arsenal had their fans going yeah fuck the media you do what you need to do blah blah blah broadcasters first of all put a lot of money into these games and part of your duty is to front up and do post-match media with them when it comes to the written media and I think the only one out there was Tim Stillman so if you like a somewhat warm audience you know you're not he's not going to be absolutely hammering you with nasty questions or trying to trip you up.

16:53Chloe: But I have waited many a post-match for nearly an hour to get a manager in a press conference or to get it in a mix zone. So this idea that she needed to take those 20 minutes for her team, she absolutely could have done that and then still come out and do media. So I think there's a bit of maybe lack of understanding of how post-match works. But look, when I'm doing post-match and a team has been battered, I can't turn around and go, oh, well, this is going to be a really awkward interview because the manager's just lost 7-0, so I'm just not going to do it. Like, you have to. No one, I don't want to ask them the questions, but we both have a job to do, and you just kind of have to front it.

17:26Chloe: I thought the fact that she spoke about it in the press conference and that she started the press conference with a speech was good, addressing it. But yeah, it is what it is, I suppose.

17:39Rachel: No, I think that's absolutely 100 % fair. I think, you know, there's a lot of time and effort and resource and money that goes into, you know, being at these games and covering the games and wanting to tell the full picture. So I think, you know, not giving media the opportunity to kind of ask those questions. And I think, you know, you and I both know the Press Pack super well, like yourselves, like, you know, The Guardian, you know, Tom Gary, Susie Rack, you know, so many, Emma Saunders, so many amazing people who have been covering women's football for a very long time and have always done so very fairly and very responsibly.

18:07Rachel: So, and I agree, like you do have to, you can't always, you've got to take the bad with the good. And sometimes it's very, very bad. And sometimes you've just got to face up to that. I think it's difficult in those moments to know what is going on behind the scenes. I can't imagine some of the emotions, I think, that maybe Leah in particular would have been going through after Paris FC. Maybe she would have required a little bit more support. But I think, again, it's just communication. You can say to the media and to the press, it's going to be a little bit longer. You can obviously appreciate that she needs to be with the squad, but she'll be out in 45 minutes.

18:35Rachel: We really apologize for the delay. So I think you don't want to get on the wrong side of the media because it just feels like they're your best friends. they're doing the best for the game and I think it helps generally speaking trying to trying to grow the sport so yeah but let's talk a little bit about Man City because despite Arsenal's performance it was Man City who I think you know came through delivered the goods um so many great moments in this game I mean Lauren Hemp being one of them involved in three out of the four goals I mean it kind of just felt like she she goes from strength to strength and I think even with them Bunny Short I felt like she had a good game but like uh there's some people saying that she's not had the she didn't have the best game but the best game even a game played at 50 for bunny shore is probably 90 for another player but it kind of feels like she she still scored she had a goal disallowed yes she missed the the one-on-one that maybe could have killed the game off a little bit earlier but it kind of felt like she was still being bunny shore i saw that and i was like were

19:35Chloe: we watching a different game because for me a striker having a quiet or an off day means they're not creating, right? Like for me, they're just like, where were you? Why have you not had any shots on target? You know, where are you in and around these key moments? That's a striker having a bad day. I'm like, I'm watching Bunny Shaw bear down on goal. I don't know how many times. Yes, as you said, the goal disallowed and the one that she scored. I'm like, this is Bunny Shaw all over. Bunny Shaw creates and creates and creates and creates. And she will generally, more often than not, get a goal against perhaps, you know, lesser quality team.

20:07Chloe: She might score more of those chances. But that for me wasn't Bunny Shaw having an off day. She was a bloody nightmare like for Arsenal. So yeah, I found that really weird because I'd be reading it and then like the next line down I'd be talking about all the chances that maybe she didn't score but that she'd create him. Like that's not a quiet day for a striker.

20:27Rachel: No, 100%. And I think the third person who I think entered my list was Kirsten Kasperi. I feel like that she was just I don't know there's something about her that I just love as a person but to do so within 65 seconds of being on the pitch, this kind of one touch curling effort that takes it past Borbett. And I just, there was nothing she could have done, but it was just like the celebration and the elation afterwards of what that goal means. Every single goal feels like it means something really special to the club, but it just goes to show kind of the depth that they have now in this side, because you've got Bunny, Lauren, Kirsten, all on firing form.

21:03Rachel: And this is a city that I think this is a very important game for them to win, to put to bed and to sort of cement their position as super serious title contenders to go on and do a back-to-back. But yeah, I mean, what are you making of City? Because it kind of feels like they're just formidable and they're a runaway train at the moment, I feel.

21:24Chloe: Yeah, on the Kirsten Kasparaj goal, I think that moment summed up the two teams in that game, in that City's substitutions elevated them, took them further forward and just took them out of reach of Arsenal. And Arsenal's didn't. And your substitutions should either be sustaining or improving your levels. And I just don't think it had that effect for Arsenal. Whereas for City, that moment encapsulated how effective their players are when they come off the bench in terms of contributing. Like to score with your first touch and equalize the game. That was exactly what, you know, Andre Jäglert wanted out of his squad.

22:01Chloe: And it just tactically showed his noose, if you like, that he was able to go, I know what this game needs. Kirsten Kasper, I came on with a bit of a hold my beer moment. Like, don't worry, guys, I got this. And that was a real kind of, it just summed the whole thing up, right? And players are playing with freedom and with a smile on their face. And, you know, we've been talking a lot about, well, let's see how City get on against, you know, one of their big rivals. They've been leaking goals. And I, you know, as enjoyable as the game was, they can be got at defensively and they are dealing with injuries around there.

22:32Chloe: So that is an area that they need to be aware of. But because they are scoring so many goals, they're able to kind of have those frailties at the back, if you like. And I just think that was the test for them playing up against. I know Arsenal aren't having a good run at the moment, but it's not going to be an easy game. So it kind of put to bed those questions around, well, let's see them against a top side and see how they get on. And they absolutely delivered.

22:56Rachel: 100%. And it's also the mentality that it takes. It was the kind of, you know, two comebacks in the game, less than three days after drawing to Real Madrid in the Champions League. And it kind of, you know, Joglutz was also, you know, pointing out afterwards how often his kind of the side have turned games around from behind and how much mentality it takes to do that. I mean, you sometimes you see the end result and go 4-2. OK, well, Man City had, you know, an incredible game and, you know, they're back at the top of the table and maybe stay there for the remainder of the season. But you can't also take away the heart and determination it takes in those individual moments in the games where people like players, individual players are stepping up to create and to make sure that those things happen and their performances are consistent.

23:35Rachel: But now they've won every single game in the league this season. It kind of feels like, I don't know, it's going to take a lot to topple. But there is still that, you know, there's a couple of points, few points behind them and Chelsea and now London City lineesses. So whilst it does feel super dominant, the door is always open at this early, early stage in the season. So I'm not I'm not getting carried away on the Man City hype train, but it does feel like, my God, if they carry on with this run of form, it could be a very, very enjoyable season for them. Coming up after this, London City Lionesses give Spurs a mauling.

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26:24Rachel: oh welly welly welly I was not expecting this um earlier on this week I had troubles with my mic and I had to jump on with uh Finn producer Finn a couple of days ago and he asked me a question just from Mike Tess to say like what do you think is going to happen in the London City Lionesses versus Spurs game. And I said, well, I think it's going to be a really closely won battle. I think in my head, Spurs super confident at the moment, firing all cylinders, you know, really well put together. Martin Ho's getting the absolute best from the squad. Do you know what? My head's kind of saying Spurs, but my heart's saying a little bit of, you know, Spanish flair, London City Lionesses could win, but on balance, I think it's Spurs.

27:00Rachel: How frigging stupid and naive could I have been going into this fixture? There was one website saying that Spurs had run into a buzzsaw which is the which is i think it's the graphic but also quite accurate um portrayals of what went down this weekend and i think it came unstuck or spurs came unstuck within four minutes with who else ballon door winning puteus and the goal that she scored pouncing on this um goyoro um long range effort cop did her absolute best but puteus just being there to kind of fire this thing in the back as the next. Quickest to react. She was just there. And it just, the elation, I think, that she felt kind of getting herself more consistently now on the score sheet.

27:43Rachel: But it just felt like from that moment onwards, Spurs didn't really know what was happening.

27:50Chloe: To be fair, I don't think anyone was expecting Tottenham to lose 6-1. Like, not just because it's London City. Like, I thought it would be a tight match. I was the same as you. I thought Tottenham might edge it. You know, and there have been some mad results. You look at London City losing to West Ham. and then Tottenham beating Palace 7-0, but Palace hold Arsenal to a 0-0 draw. So no one's going to go, oh yeah, they'll probably beat Tottenham 6-1. And even looking at the stats, if you looked at the stats alone, you wouldn't look at that game and think London City won at 6-1. Tottenham had the majority of the possession.

28:22Chloe: They had 18 shots to London City's 21, but only two on target to London City's 10. They had 25 touches in their box to London City's 37. So I looked at that and was like, God, did I forget when Tottenham went forward? Because it did feel like it was all London City, but actually it wasn't in terms of possession. I think for me, what I found frustrating was Tottenham's lack of plan B. I do think there might've been an element of whether they were overawed by some of the players they were playing, I don't know. But they just seemed to be a bit like deer in headlights at times. And I think they failed to recognize that they couldn't play out of London City's press because their press is excellent.

29:04Chloe: and rather than recognizing that playing out from the back constantly is just putting you under pressure, playing short passes, they were constantly under pressure by London City players. They had one, two, three players on top of them every time they had the ball and they just kept trying to do these short little passes in and around them. And as a goalkeeper, I'm sure you would agree that when you're struggling to play out from the back with a high press, you've got to send a few balls long because it discourages the other team from continuing to press you because they'll say, OK, they might catch us out here at the back.

29:34Chloe: They might get a ball in between the lines. Maybe we won't press this time. But Tottenham didn't really seem to be doing that enough. So London City just kept pressing them. So I expected Tottenham to come out better in the second half and recognise that. But I just don't feel like they did. It was like they just lacked a plan B. They couldn't problem solve. But equally, London City were great. Do you know what I mean?

29:53Rachel: So it was a bit of a... It was maybe summed up with what Martin Ho was saying kind of after the game. And he was saying, you know, the team looks scared with the ball. And it kind of felt like it was a Spurs that didn't quite know what to do with the ball when they got it. And, you know, we've seen in this start of the season, Spurs have been kind of firing all cylinders, doing really well. It all feels like it's like starting to click. And then all of a sudden they're undone by the kind of tactics that they adopt themselves. So normally, you know, we're seeing Spurs kind of, you know, really try and press teams a little bit more relentlessly, trying to swarm up front.

30:24Rachel: And it kind of felt like then the tables were turned, the situation was reversed, and they didn't quite know how to handle that, which is going to be a really interesting one now for their next run of fixtures, where teams are going to be looking at this result and looking at kind of the strategy that London City adopted, which is to kind of put a shit ton of pressure on them and see them kind of almost semi-collapse. I mean, I didn't have a look at the possession stats, but I'm shocked that Spurs had that amount of possession because to me, watching the game, I was like, when did that happen?

30:54Rachel: because it kind of felt like London City were in control, even when Spurs had the ball, that London City were in control the entire time. So it was kind of like it was a cat dangling a mouse. It was like the mouse had the cheese, but who's actually running the game? It's London City Lionesses. That's how it felt to me. But it also felt like there was almost a bit of sloppiness, I felt, to Spurs. There was kind of a few kind of misplaced balls in midfield, which is something that I think has kind of crept into their game, even when they have delivered good results.

31:23Chloe: Yeah, I will say, though, they struggled against Liverpool. And similarly, Liverpool kind of played them at their own game, pegged back their wingers. They could not get into the game. And Spurs struggled to problem solve. So you would kind of have hoped that they would have learned more lessons from that game. You know, equally, you've got to talk about London City's press is incredible. With the likes of Daniela van der Donk, just her engine is unreal. And I think the quality of players that they have, they can sustain that press for 90 plus minutes. You know, they then throw in their fullbacks.

31:52Chloe: Fernandes and Corrales are unbelievable. They're constantly pressing forward and getting involved in the attacks. But equally, you look at that and say, right, that means there's space back there. And to not kind of try and exploit that because they're too busy trying to hold on to possession in midfield and sloppy pass here, sloppy pass there. They had their best chances when they sent balls up to their wingers and into space. And they did have chances. And actually, Spurs could have scored more. They had a super free kick. Olivia Holtz had a couple of options, who actually was probably a bright spark in a very poor Spurs performance.

32:27Chloe: But yeah, it's that balance of, I don't want to, London City were great, and I don't want to take away from that. But equally, Tottenham were poor, and there were moments where they caused their own problems, leaving the ball into the path of the opposition, stuff like that. They were making those uncharacteristic mistakes. So, yeah, I expect them to go away now during this international break and definitely learn some big, difficult lessons from that game.

32:52Rachel: We've got a really interesting question in from JM Jars, who said, Have Spurs just been taught that they'll need big name players in order to break into the top three? So obviously, I think there's a lot of at the start of the start of the season, obviously at the massive transfer window, Michelle Carrigan had massively deep pockets and she's spent all these millions and millions of pounds getting in this like world class Ballon d 'Or winning squad. And then you've got a Spurs who have obviously never had massive, massive, massive budgets, but I feel like it's increasing slightly with the calibre of some of the players that they're starting to now attract.

33:23Rachel: But does it feel like actually for Spurs to really consistently operate at a kind of top three Champions League-esque level that they need to bring in a calibre of players that is much higher than the current squad? Or do we think that's a disservice to the current squad that they have who have been performing really, really well for the past five, six weeks or so?

33:42Chloe: I think give them a minute. Like, I know it was a bad result, but like, that's not, I don't think it's an indictment on the whole squad and what Spurs are doing. Martin Ho's only in his second season. You know, give them a chance to, they need time. That's one of the things you need when you're building. Yes, you need quality players. And I do think they've built a really good squad to play the style of football that Martin Ho wants to play. But I don't think it's as simple as, oh, you just get in a couple of stars and you'll have no problem getting into the top three. I don't buy that yet. I think if we were five, six seasons in maybe with Martin Ho and they were still around fifth, sixth and not breaking in, maybe you could make that judgment.

34:20Chloe: But I think give them time. This isn't like I say in a diamond on their season. People are having bad results here and there. Crystal Palace losing 7-0. I don't hope, well, I hope, but you're not going to see that kind of high scoring result again. There are going to be flaws in games and there's going to be moments where another team just see where the gap in your armour is and absolutely exploit it. So, yeah, I'd give it time.

34:47Rachel: I think what's going to be really interesting, obviously, you know, there's been a lot of discussion around the spending habits in London City Lionesses and how much investment has happened and how beneficial it's been to have a multi-billionaire owner who genuinely seems to believe in the value of women's sports and is very ambitious in where she wants to get to in a very short space of time. there's something kind of um i don't know whether there's a kind of nod to like what's happening with man city men at the moment and kind of like the investment levels that have maybe secretly gone into the club that shouldn't have and all the you know the premier league investigation and kind of the outcome of this appeal and things and how people are going to start to think about the financial regulation that goes into some of the teams in the wsl because obviously we don't have a financial and independent financial regulator the premier league does the wsl at that point voted not to which i think was a bit of a mistake but starting to see how the impact of some of these you know, these big investment consortiums and their ability to buy in these, you know, huge names.

35:41Rachel: I mean, London City without a billionaire manager, without a billionaire investor, would never have been able to attract the likes of a Puteus and a Mapillon and Daniela van der Donk and Mary Earps and the rest of the squad. So it's how much you're, do you know what I mean? There's going to be sort of questions I ask, I think, about the ability of investors to be able to buy a certain amount of success. But on the other hand, this is kind of what we want. We want to see investment in the game. We want to see the best players in the world coming to the WSL. We want the quality of the product to be growing.

36:11Rachel: We want the value to go up. But do you know what I mean? There's this kind of like question to be asked about what money can buy you and whether it impacts the competitiveness of the league. Maybe this is a wider discussion

36:23Chloe: that we have on another pod. I will just say, I agree to an extent. I do. But I also think it's interesting that this question is only coming up quite a bit now when London City have suddenly got involved like why wasn't it when Chelsea were breaking records or the other top teams Arsenal and Manchester City were spending big for players now that London City who are an independent club and can't rely on aren't relying on a men's team the only way you're going to compete is to spend a lot of money like it's not like you can you've got like a baseline to work from with a men's club so I just find it interesting that now that another team is getting involved in a different way and spending like obviously you're not going to get in big players if you don't spend money like that's basic in any industry you're not going to get the best people unless you pay them top dollar so yeah i i get the argument about you know the spending cap and the game is growing so quickly that it's very difficult for everyone to keep up unless you put your hand in your pocket i totally agree with that i just find it interesting that it's becoming a problem now that London City are suddenly knocking on the door and they're doing it in a slightly different way to other teams have.

37:29Chloe: But it is definitely something that will need to be looked at if we're to try and manage the growth of the game and ensure it's a bit more sustainable.

37:37Rachel: 100%. I think that's the thing, isn't it? It's like trying to balance, because the clubs are at completely different levels financially, your West Ham is a completely different position to your Chelsea. What you don't want to do is lose the competitiveness if you're in a financial situation where you've got a massive parent club who either backs you. And I suppose Chelsea do have external investment. They've got Alexis Hainian as a 25 % owner of Chelsea Women. And then you've got Mercury 13 knocking on the door. Go on.

38:02Chloe: One more thing as well is you also don't want to say it's OK for teams not to invest and almost slow everyone else down because a West Ham or someone isn't really that bothered, quite happy to just stay in the league and never play in their main stadia. And, you know, there also has to be a bit of a kick up the bum for some teams who are doing the bare minimum. So you need to kind of balance that.

38:25Rachel: No, 100 percent. This is not a call for, OK, should we stop the investment because it looks embarrassing for the teams who aren't doing it? It's kind of more of a case of how do we make sure that this happens, where they've been this kind of almost like breakaway of the top four or five clubs who do have good investors or genuine long term investors and the clubs that don't. But anyway, I feel like we're getting sidetracked. and it's completely my fault because I've brought it into a financial regulation space that I didn't even anticipate doing on this podcast. Let's get back to the actual players on the field, the one that Michelle Kang have managed to bring in.

38:54Rachel: So Dianne on the right, Daniela van der Dunck on the lead, Alexi Puteas in the 10. And then you've got Puteas scoring her first WSL goal against Brighton the weekend before and then scoring another two in this game. Dianne got her first goals for London City and then Frey Godfrey, who obviously didn't score, but in this kind of massively star-studded front line, She kind of feels like the player that I didn't know was missing from this, like almost like the espresso type mix, this triple espresso type mix that these three are kind of becoming for becoming.

39:26Chloe: Well, you also have to factor in that if, you know, Godfrey isn't playing, Cascarino's in. And that's another frightening prospect for opposition teams. They've clicked together super well. They seem to really enjoy playing with each other. It's really nice to see, you know, Daniela Vandadonk obviously was struggling with injuries last season. So it's so nice to see her back and absolutely flourishing. And Alexi Batea, I think, is finding her feet now. And I think it's great. It took her a little while, I think, to get used to maybe the physicality of the league a little bit and perhaps, you know, not kind of dominating possession in games and stuff like that.

39:59Chloe: And I think, you know, she's found her feet really quickly. Her goals, great goals. I mean, I will say Spurs probably don't leave Alexi Batea free in the box. It's probably not going to work out well for you. but equally they were both super excited post-match DVD and Pateas and they just we could have scored more and they absolutely could have but I need to ask you about the Lisa Kopp the goal that she gave away and what annoyed me was that the commentators were kind of saying oh god she's way too far out of her goal and I actually thought her positioning in that situation was excellent she anticipated a breakthrough she did really well to be high up the pitch to intercept the ball.

40:42Chloe: Tick, tick, tick. Why, Chloe, did she not kick it left or right? Like, why would you not just put that out for a throw-in? Why would you try and put it through a player who's bearing down on you? Like, talk me through what's going through your head as a goalkeeper in that situation.

40:54Rachel: Honestly, I think it's one of those moments that you're just trying to affect a clearance. Also, I can't remember where the position of the other London City Lionesses players were at that point. I think she was just by herself. Well, then in that situation, yeah, it's just like kick it to the kick is the left or the right but then what you do risk I suppose if you're completely out of position is you kick it out for a throw in and then someone takes it quickly and you're left in exactly the same situation sprinting towards your own goal trying to recover so eight out of ten times you might be absolutely fine and those two out of ten you just look like an absolute muppet I've had it happen to me before I've had worse things happen to me before but yeah I mean the best thing about this whole situation is even for that goal it did not affect the wider result if that was like a kind of like a deciding between like winning the game or a draw like you'd be a bit like fucking hell but like since it actually mattered nothing in the scheme of the other goals that were scored it's you take that on the chin as something that never happened and you can move on quite quickly so yeah coming up after this it's make or break for the world cup

41:58Rachel: so there is a lot on the line in this international break world cup qualification no less England, Ireland, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland are all in action. All of them need to win a two-legged fixture to progress to the final round of qualification. So we've got England playing Greece on Friday in Cree at 5.30 British time. Greece are 59th in the FIFA rankings. They played Ireland last year in the Nations League and lost both ties 4-0 and 2-1. Rach, you've got a bit of experience of Greece. Like you kind of know what the suss is.

42:36Chloe: I mean, what are you kind of expecting from this game? You say that. You have to remind me pre-pod that Ireland played Greece and that I was asked the second leg. So it obviously didn't land that long on my brain. And the one thing I will say, because I don't actually know that much about Greece, but I find, maybe I'm solo in this, but I hate two-legged playoffs. I always find if the teams are kind of a similar-ish level, the first leg becomes a bit of a dud because neither team are willing to lose the first leg. Do you know what I mean? Teams are too afraid to lose the first leg. And then it always ends up being a really scrappy second leg.

43:16Chloe: So you can see that from the results when Ireland played Greece. They learned a lot from the first leg. They lost 4-0 and then it was 2-1. And that was very much a case of kind of banking up and making it really difficult for Ireland to score. And we know that England can at times struggle with that. So for me, the first leg is really important for England. I think they need to bang in a couple of goals and make sure that they're not suddenly under serious pressure in a home leg, trying to win the second leg because the first leg hasn't gone that well, if you know what I mean. So I think that would be the main issue would be breaking them down.

43:49Chloe: And it's something England do struggle with at the times.

43:51Rachel: I'm sorry, would you be advocating for this to be a single leg fixture for this to be like a do or die, almost like a this is it type thing? because that feels like too much of a heart attack that I'm not willing to go through at this stage. I'd much rather, you know, delay this until the second leg, to be honest.

44:08Chloe: I mean, I don't mind the two rounds of playoffs, but like Ireland got through and they just beat Scotland when they got through to the World Cup. So it wasn't like a two-legged playoff against Scotland, if you know what I mean. I don't know. I may be on my own in thinking this, but I just find like I remember the Ireland-Wales game, that first leg was just like such a dud. Neither team were really willing to come out and play in case they lost the first leg. And then the second leg was super scrappy. And I just feel like you never really get the best out of the teams. But that's just my opinion.

44:42Rachel: Always a little bit cagey. I've got to agree with that. But I do think, you know, England put this game to bed. If they can score two, three, four goals and just trying to get this sorted, I feel like everyone can just breathe a sigh of release and kind of just, I don't know, just have a beer, you know? I don't want to celebrate too early, but I just want to be able to celebrate at some point. But let's talk about the squad that are going to be facing Greece, because there's been a lot of kind of talk around certain people have been involved in the squad. So people have been dropped from the squad.

45:10Rachel: So we spoke a little bit last week about Serena Vigman picking some of the youngsters and leaving out some of the big names, including Chloe Kelly and Ella Toon. And we've kind of seen maybe Serena kind of adopts this kind of she wants to change things. She wants to kind of usher in this new era of England youngsters. And I love the fact that she's kind of giving more of these youngsters more of an opportunity to shine, especially in kind of these crucial, important games. These aren't just, you know, we've picked this squad because it's a friendly and we just want to give them a run out. This is actually do or die stuff for England.

45:36Rachel: And Serena's putting them in really highly pressurized situations, early doors, which is great. And it just shows the kind of, I don't know, the belief that she has in these players that they're not just making up numbers, that they're there for the big stuff.

45:48Chloe: Super excited about the midfield because that was a problem area for England for a while. and I think it's really exciting to see so many young faces in there. I think she's using this window well because we've touched on this before. Nations League, you don't often have a lot of friendlies that you can just see how players get on. There's the expectation you win everything and then when you do play a Brazilian friendly, you have to win it otherwise you're a terrible coach. So actually I think she's using this window well to bring in some new faces. I think sometimes players need to kick up the bum and the positions aren't always guaranteed and some players I think thrive on that.

46:29Chloe: I don't want to say the word rejection because it's not but I think there are some players who will take that on their shoulders and go, all right, I'm going to show you why you should have taken me and I think that's good because that only benefits the player and it only benefits England if suddenly players like your Toon and your Kellys who maybe were struggling a little bit for form and that's okay, it happens. You know, players can get really quite offended if their form is questioned. It happens to everybody. It happens to managers, the teams. You go through little stumbling patches. It's fine.

46:59Chloe: It's how you respond. And I think sometimes these kind of moments should be seen as opportunities to go, all right, I'm going to take that. I'm going to show you why you should have taken me. And we could then be looking at the potential to getting into the World Cup should they qualify.

47:14Rachel: I mean, what this shows is a kind of an additional level of ruthlessness that we're seeing with Serena Vigman now. To leave out two-time Euro winners is a big statement, I think, to say, you know, the past is the past. And actually what we're looking for now is what we have currently. Who is the best at this current moment in time? And I think, you know, she was quite good with the press sort of explaining that, you know, the reason that Ella Toon and Chloe Kelly was left out is that she expected higher levels from them. She's had that conversation with them. You know, communication is key with these decisions.

47:43Rachel: and she sort of acknowledged also that it is a difficult decision to make and that she still does have you know a belief that these players can still make it back into the squad she said you know I really believe in them I still believe in them we expect a bit more I mean that they can bring more and it's about talent playing minutes and the competition that's going on so she hopes they can step up and show what they can do and I think you know knowing Chloe Kelly and knowing Ella Toon and knowing that these are very resilient players who have had setbacks in their careers and you know have gone through challenges in their respective clubs and you know have overcome those difficulties and also been in these like massive demanding highly pressurized situations it's you know I have no doubt in my mind that these two won't be doing their absolute utmost to be getting back into that squad and then the plus side of that I think you know going back to the youngsters I mean Lexi Poster is the sort of sort of mainstream person that people are talking about as being you know one of those called up to kind of you know an impressive start to the season um and she's kind of the only new face included in in the squad for for this announcement but Vigman saying you know I think she's grown a lot last season we kept a really close eye on her because she was always getting into the squad, getting minutes and doing really well.

48:46Rachel: And she believes that she can compete at the highest level. So yeah, let's wait and see. All they've got to do now is deliver against Greece. So easy. Ireland have a much longer journey. 3 ,100 miles to be exact. They're in Astana to play Kazakhstan. Kickoff is at 12 British time on Friday. day um that's a really unfortunate um location to have to get to to play this game i mean i was trying to work out with producer finn before the pod started whether that's probably the longest kind of european destination that you would have to get to for a qualifier and i think we thought yes but let me know if i'm wrong rachel what what are your thoughts and feelings going going into this game?

49:32Rachel: How are the nerves for you at the moment?

49:35Chloe: Probably a similar feeling to the England game in that I think they need to really try and put it to bed in the first leg. It may come as a surprise that I haven't chosen to go to Kazakhstan because I've done it before. And actually, you say Astana is the longest way to go. England had to go to Pavlodar. So we had to spend a night in Astana and then get an internal flight up to Pavlodar, which was, I think, north. Kazakhstan is like the ninth biggest country in the world. Did you know that? One of the biggest landlocked countries. Loads of interesting stuff about it. But that was far. So yeah, I didn't really fancy doing the trip again.

50:08Chloe: So apologies for that. But yeah, I do think tough, long, long journey. And I think it's very much going to be a case of put the game, for me, put the game to bed in the first leg. Before coming back, they play Cork on the following Tuesday. They'll be playing the reverse leg. So, yeah, it's an interesting one.

50:32Rachel: It's just a very hairy time at the moment. There's a lot of like nervousness in the air. Yeah, everyone kind of wants to make it to Brazil and it kind of feels like there's only a few spots left now. It's like Charlie the Chocolate Factory in some weird wart way. Elsewhere, Wales play a... Yeah, literally. Elsewhere, Wales play a Albania who they battered 4-0 in their qualifying group with Romania or Norway in the next round. Norway are managed by former Wales gaffer Gemma Granger, who almost took them to the 2023 World Cup. And then we have Scotland playing the Czech Republic with Lithuania or Sweden in round two.

51:11Rachel: And then Northern Ireland have the toughest test against Portugal with Croatia or Iceland awaiting the winner. The lowest ranked team of the eight European qualifiers will have to play one more playoff against a country from another confederation. So Northern Ireland might have to win another tie to qualify. That's... Complicated. I can never get to the bottom of trying to work through the iterations of different ways of qualifying that UEFA just seemed really adamant on no one understanding. So if you did get that, congratulations. If you didn't, use Claude, because I'm struggling myself here.

51:47Rachel: So yeah. But it does feel like there's some really important fixtures that are taking place, and qualification is absolutely on the line for everyone now. It is do or die. Rach, thank you so much for tuning in and bearing with me whilst I continue my travels in Vietnam. Where will you be next week?

52:07Chloe: I will be in Crete this week and Cork next Tuesday to do both an England and an Ireland fixture in this window. But then I'll be back and I will be coming into our studio like a good egg.

52:19Rachel: Oh, lovely, mate. I've only there's only one more podcast left that I'll be away and then I'm back in the studio and then that's it. I'm not going anywhere for like the whole of my life until at least the World Cup has finished. Maybe one weekend away. Kind of. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Upfront. Just a quick one that will be back on Wednesday next week after the England-Greece game because we definitely want to cover all the action from that Tuesday. You can find us on Instagram and XFAS Twitter. I'm at Morgie underscore 89. Rach is at Girls on the Ball and we are at Upfront underscore pod.

52:52Rachel: You can also find us on YouTube at Upfront pod. See you next week on Wednesday.

53:14Rachel: Upfront is a Stack production and part of the Acast Creator Network.