Chelsea slip up, will Charlton go pointless and Arsenal’s week from hell

0:02Rachel: Welcome to Upfront, I'm Chloe Morgan. And I'm Rachel O'Sullivan. The title race is heating up between Man City and Chelsea and now we finally have a showdown between the two of them. We look at Chelsea's drop points against Everton and wonder how LJ's injury might impact them heading into their clash at the bridge. Elsewhere, Charlton gets agonisingly close to their first WSL point, but you can always rely on a Beth England winner, can't you? And Arsenal prepare for a week from hell, but at least they got another three points under their belts at Liverpool. I mean, God, well done, guys.

0:44Rachel: Rage, another remote record for us. We've not started the season strong, have we really? I've been in Vietnam, you've been in Switzerland, we've been away, we've been the time zones have been off. It's been absolute chaos. Apologies to the listeners for all the disruption that we've been causing over the last two months but we will of course it's disruption for us yeah yeah in their episodes no no 100 100 news resolution we'll try our best to be in person which will

1:08Chloe: probably change if football takes me places i've got to go literally well bill's got to be paid

1:12Rachel: you know and it's a cost of living crisis um rachel what's your moment of the weekend okay

1:17Chloe: i've got two i've got like a main one and then just a funny mention and the main one is fallon Tullis Joyce's save. She made this unbelievable save against, I think it was Arnaud Jean-Francois with the shot, kind of a little poke from goal, looped it over everybody into, could not have been more in the, I don't want to sound like American commentators, but in the frame of the goal, right in the corner. And PTJ used her entire, I don't know how tall she is, I feel like she's nearly six foot length and reach to kind of claw the ball out of the corner. It was one of those saves that makes you kind of make a noise when you're watching the game um and yeah it was just top class and it also made me realize that I always call her pjt and it that's not her initials it's ptj and so that was one unbelievable and then the funny one was um Leah Williamson's like stop drop and roll at one point during the Liverpool game no but you know what like that's where Arslan have gotten to like when you talk about bodies on the line she's literally there like on the ground going, well, the only way I can get involved in this is if I do a little roly-poly.

2:25Chloe: And do you know what? Weird, but effective.

2:27Rachel: It was impactful. It was very impactful. I rate the dedication to the cause and it of course stopped the chance. So credit to her. True leadership there from the England captain. I've got to go with the Bunny Shaw. Once again, absolutely running riot this weekend. 150 games for Man City. 12 goals already this season. I think she's obviously kind of set to kind of break Minamar's record 22 in a single campaign I think that's owned by Viv and also Rach Daly I think if I've got that right She's averaging a goal every 61 minutes It just feels like it's left foot It's right foot It's diving header It's normal header It's kind of just shot from It's anything But I just feel like she's one of the most prolific strikers That we've ever seen in recent times And I'm just She just looks like she's like just enjoying herself And I really love it So yeah of course I'm going to give a shout out to that and also shortlisted for the BBC Women's Football of the Year Award.

3:23Rachel: I hope she wins, to be honest. Also, a bit of a shout out for us in this section. We've got some super exciting news. We've been nominated for Women's Football Media of the Year at the Football Supporters Association Awards. It always feels like we're the bridesmaid in this award and never the bride. Coming close on multiple occasions, but never quite going up there to deliver our incredible speeches. which we've had written for a long time yeah in the back pocket three years the paper is starting to fall apart guys i think we need to use them please help um we're so so delighted to be up for the award and the best way that you can help us um if you want to of course is giving us your vote uh click the link in the show notes it will take just two minutes to drop us your vote and we really really appreciate your support um and can you help us bring the bring the trophy home right let's get stuck into the games then Rach um big big big week and also a bottom of the table clash which we'll get into in the second section but we'll have to start with Chelsea because both these teams Chelsea and Man City kicked off at 12 45 on Saturday level on points nothing between them no air at the top of the table and they knew that obviously they were going to have to play each other this weekend Saturday the 14th but after five wins on the spin Chelsea could only manage a 1-1 draw with Everton who you kind of put your money on them walking away with the points no discredit to Everton but it kind of felt like Chelsea had really found a bit of form and like this was you know this is a fairly straightforward fixture for them and then you've got on the other side of the country Man City thrashing West Ham 5-0 it was a bit of a this is how your life could have been moment I suppose for Chelsea obviously disappointing to drop these points with every single point matters and they want to keep that title race as close as possible it kind of again felt like you know Chelsea having the majority of possession I think 65 % overall to Everton's 35 % and it kind of felt like Chelsea were continuously knocking at the door pretty much from the first minute you've got Carpenter the chance that hits the side netting you've got the misdirected header from Melvin it feels like actually in that first five or ten minutes I was like don't worry about it it will happen and the floodgates will open and Chelsea are on fire and form but it it then unfolded in a way that I mean no one saw no one saw it coming really but um Raze what did you make in the sort of opening exchanges?

5:51Chloe: Opening exchanges like I felt like Chelsea's goal was coming you know they looked on top they looked threatening they were quick they were giving you know Everton very little time to breathe they were popping off shots um so when they did score it was kind of like, yeah, okay, saw that one coming. You could kind of, you feel, it felt that that was the way the game was going. I think the manner in which Everton got the goal back and, you know, props to Everton again, another game where they haven't scored, zero shots on target, and they still come away with a point. They're doing this like unbelievable tactic of like winning games with own goals.

6:23Chloe: It's a vogue one, but it seems to be working for them. I don't know how you practice for that, if I'm honest. I don't know. I mean, maybe it's some, we should ask Scott Phelan because I've never seen it before. and initially maybe it was a coincidence but now it feels like it's becoming like a bit of a thing now I mean some of that does come from you know packing the box creating those opportunities having good set piece deliverers like kind of forcing your own luck a little bit but yeah it's definitely becoming a pattern but Chelsea did look you know like they were going to cause problems that goal came from a second phase of a corner but you know leaving Lucy Bronze free on the post the same thing happened minutes later where bronze I think ended up hitting the crossbar or was saved onto the cross.

7:05Chloe: It was just one of those where it was like, right, that exact thing just happened and you've conceded from it. Stop leaving her. She can leap like a salmon. Like she's so dangerous on that back post. To be fair, I don't think that then kind of really happened again. So they did recognize that. But I do think Everton has shown that they've got a bit of defensive news about them. We saw that against Manchester United, they can be quite disciplined in their movement and their positioning. And they can frustrate teams. and they made it difficult centrally for Chelsea, forcing them out wide. And they were relatively comfortable then dealing with those balls in.

7:38Chloe: I just think Chelsea looked a little bit out of ideas in the second half. And there've been elements of that before where they've struggled to problem solve a little bit and that has improved across the season.

7:50Rachel: Do you think that has a little bit to do with Lauren James? Obviously, they were missing her. Obviously, the news came out last week that she'll be out for the next few weeks after she came off in that win against the 6-0 win against Charlton. But do you feel like she's the kind of piece that, or the piece of the puzzle that seems to be missing in this particular game?

8:07Chloe: Yeah, I was just about to say that that's also probably down to the fact that they're missing their kind of creative talisman. And, you know, it is, they've only just lost her. So I feel like maybe that adaptation hasn't happened yet to, OK, oh, wow, this is what we're missing. You know, that kind of way, right? We are like, this is the issue that we're having. This is how we need to address it. And maybe they haven't quite prepared for that. I think, yeah, I do think Everton, though, did a good job centrally that Maz Bacheco's playing a little bit higher and he kind of gets stuck in a bit more and break up play a little bit.

8:35Chloe: And I think it's, yeah, it's the adapting to not having LJ that they need to do quite quickly.

8:41Rachel: I think, though, I mean, it's a Chelsea that, I mean, maybe that's the flaw, essentially, because like, you know, the Chelsea that you see the squad that Chelsea have, essentially. I mean, LJ, yes, 100 percent, she's a key player. She's also had an incredibly strong start to the season. So her being out will take a knock. but you look at the quality of the Chelsea squad and you're not thinking, oh, one player is going to completely unsettle you. It's not like you have this kind of the rest of the bench is like, well, we're going to do our best now until Lauren James is back, like mentality that you can adopt because the squad is so fucking brilliant.

9:10Rachel: I mean, like even like Captain, I thought I was so impressed with her. I thought she looked really, really spicy in this game. So, yeah, I think it's like you need to. And I think Chelsea, especially where they've spent so long at the top of the tables for years and years and years, It's like they've gone through challenges where they've had injuries that have kind of disrupted things. But like they should have a bit more about them, I think, to be able to adapt more quickly and get their heads back in the game. I was a little bit disappointed, I think, with how this game played out for them. And also not capitalising on the chances that they had.

9:42Rachel: I mean, that felt a bit kind of almost Arsenal-esque, I think, in the way that they couldn't put the ball in the back of the net.

9:49Chloe: And a little bit rinse and repeat, which is also kind of Arsenal-coded. you know doing the same thing and expecting a different result and it just wasn't really happening a lot of you know their corners which they had quite a few of a lot of them were short I appreciate maybe you know they didn't feel I had the the height to kind of capitalize on them but like if you're just doing the same thing the opposition can set up for it you know over and over so every so often throwing in something slightly different I think is is useful so it is that kind of versatility piece and that dynamism I think that they need to kind of find particularly given the fixture that's coming up this weekend they're going to need that 100 % I

10:25Rachel: think I will give credit actually to Lucy Bronze because obviously it was a really misfortune you know it was a lot a lot of misfortune that kind of led up to that you know the crossing and then I think it I think she saw it so late because I think there was a player that jumped just thank you who jumped in front of her and I think that she just caught it in a really awkward way so like these things happen and also it's Lucy Bronze like my god like the she barely makes

10:45Chloe: mistakes really and then like entirely like she'd know who was behind her and as you say I think that Van Gogh, I'm not even sure Van Gogh got a touch to it, but it looked like she was going to. So then you've set yourself for that. You've adjusted your trajectory. You've set yourself for that. And then suddenly it doesn't. Suddenly it's coming at you a bit flatter. She couldn't readjust herself quick enough. She didn't know who was behind her. Like, I've seen some people going a bit like over the top about it. Oh God, no.

11:07Rachel: That's just a complete... My God, that's just a fluke. That would never happen in a billion years. Even if that was a striker instead of Lucy Bonds, they probably wouldn't bet that one. But then it felt like Lucy Bonds, to be fair to her, did absolutely everything that she could to rectify her mistake. Like you could see how devastating it was for her. And that's the passion and energy that I think maybe was slightly missing in Chelsea this weekend. But like, I absolutely love the fact that she was like, I'm going to do everything I can now to try and reduce like the impact of what I've done. The other side of the coin is kind of Everton.

11:38Rachel: Let's talk a little bit about them and kind of their presence in this game. Because like you said, Rach, like defensively, fairly robust, obviously keeping a Chelsea at bay to just the one goal. but it felt like attacking presence

11:52Rachel: and it's silence because it doesn't feel like there's that kind of like, I'm not expecting Everton to really score a goal and kind of like you look at like their form this season, second bottom in goals scored, only to Charlton who haven't picked up a single point and everyone's kind of talking about the issues that they've got in the final third and kind of how impotent they're kind of looking going forwards and it did feel a little bit like this in this game which I think what is why I'm so disappointed in Chelsea because it didn't feel like Everton really posed a threat that Chelsea should be that worried about yeah

12:24Chloe: but I think it was very much as well though how Everton set up for this game they knew it was going to be you know backed against the wall against the likes of Chelsea they were similar against Manchester United although I'd say they maybe looked a little bit more threatening in the Manchester United game without actually getting much out of it but then you look back to maybe the Aston Villa game where, you know, didn't start great, but had a very good comeback and kind of showed what they could do going forwards. And it's just whether they can actually manage both of those things by, you know, showing off what they can do attacking wise while being defensively sound.

13:00Chloe: And maybe they're not quite there yet to be able to do that against the likes of a Chelsea and a Manchester United. So, you know, it wasn't the most exciting game, if I'm honest, and neither was the Manchester United one necessarily. Maybe there's the common denominator as Everton but yeah look I think if you're a side that's got a relatively new manager finding the kind of style he wants to play we've seen teams in the past be very good at going forward and scoring lots of goals and then falling apart at the back and you're kind of like I imagine it's more of a let's build from the back if we're good defensively and we get that in our bones then we can start exploring our attacking options maybe a bit more because you know if you don't concede you don't lose the game so maybe it's that kind of mentality for Everton which

13:43Rachel: kind of worked to be fair to them they've picked up a point against a squad that they probably didn't think that they were going to pick up a point against but it's it does feel like I think you know like when you're looking at that middle of the table pack I don't know I don't know whether I like Everton are like you know they're not WSL newbies I feel like I just I just thought that they should be progressing a little bit quicker to be honest and they do you know what though

14:07Chloe: they do have some like exciting players, you know, like I love Mamiki. She's so good. Vignola as well, another exciting player going forward who's had a good game, who's had good games for them in previous seasons. You know, Mouchon was a good signing for them. It's just finding that, I guess, if you like. And I don't think they've necessarily found that click yet in that, in that kind of final third of the pitch, but they are finding it further down, I think.

14:35Rachel: No, I think that, I think that's fair. I think that's very balanced and fair as always. Right. Well, on Saturday, Chelsea face Man City at Stamford Bridge. Man City obviously coming off the back of this weekend, full of confidence, high in the throes of a fucking thrashing of West Ham 5-0 featuring obviously a Bunny Shaw hat trick. Who else? How do we kind of see this match playing out? Because it kind of feels like, I'm not going to call it that this is a title decider, like it's way too early in the season. but it does feel like this is the time that these two titans to face each other to really go head to head on like who at the moment is the best in the league essentially and I think you know these because there's only two points now between them this game is obviously either Man City steaming ahead and creating a five-point distance or Chelsea leapfrogging them and getting that additional point to kind of give themselves a bit of breathing space so like the impact of this game it's like It's almost like the aesthetics of the table, really, are riding on this one.

15:33Rachel: Because even if either one of these results does happen, the title is far from over. But, I mean, I don't want to put your flagpole in the sand. But what do you think is going to happen in this game, Rach?

15:43Chloe: OK, so we were talking about this before we started recording. And I literally said, I don't know how this one is going to go. Because both sides have shown areas of weakness that can be exploited. Both sides are missing key players. You know, Manchester City is obviously missing Vivian Miedema. Chelsea are now missing Lauren James. Part of me thinks, you know, Manchester City have had a bit more time now, obviously, to adapt without Miedema and are still winning and are still top of the table. And we saw maybe Chelsea struggling to adapt quick enough to that LJ miss. So it'll be interesting to see how they get on there.

16:20Chloe: Obviously, both of them have Champions League midweek. Manchester City maybe with, I'd say, the tougher game. I think perhaps performances midweek could impact confidence or you know if Chelsea banging a load of goals they'll say okay we can put the weekend behind us we do have our shooting boots everything's fine um equally if Manchester City can get their first win in the Champions League that will give them a huge boost so um like I said I find it really difficult to call um I think it's going to be super exciting yes you're right it's not the title decider but when we get down to the end of the season could we look back at this game and say this is where that was the moment yeah and sometimes there are moments like that in seasons where you say that was the the point where it didn't happen um so yeah I think it could be it could be very exciting I'm looking forward to it what about you Chloe are you fence sitting or can you put your flagpole on the sand do you know what

17:15Rachel: I'm actually not fence sitting at all I actually think Man City will walk away with the points um I think there's a consistency, there's a fluidity that I'm seeing to Man City that feels like a Chelsea of heyday kind of on their full form, where it feels like there's a mechanic way that Man City are not only getting results, but they're enjoying playing. There's like, I don't see like any frustrations from Man City. I don't feel like any kind of, I don't know. We have talked a little bit about their vulnerabilities, like when they're playing against stronger teams and some of, but I don't feel like that's the case in the WSL.

17:49Rachel: like we've not seen those vulnerabilities we've seen them a little bit in Europe but I don't think we've seen them so much the WSL and I feel like this is a there's a man city that are enjoying their football and I know that the occasion is going to be big like Sanford Bridge is going to be a tough you know arena in which to kind of try and mesh out this draw I do think it's going to be a close one I think it's going to come you know one goal between them in some way probably bunny sure 92nd minutes header I also do think there's that that's the frustration element I suppose because like you chelsea are going to be so aware of bunny shaw's threat they're going to do absolutely everything they can to take her out of the game and then it's how bunny shaw kind of reacts to that and i and how much the other members of the team can kind of protect her so she can do what she wants but i don't i don't know i don't know whether she's stoppable like i've just talked about at the top of the show like she's run away with the wsl top goal scorer like she is up for every single award she is enjoying her except she's signed an extension she's she's Yeah, she's on the most amount of bunny sureness that I've ever seen.

18:48Chloe: Yeah, I think that's what's scary is that you're hearing stats that this is her best start to a season. And you're like, how is that even possible that she's getting better? I think Manchester City as well, we spoke about their mentality last season. You're seeing that come through as well this season. I think you've seen it in the way they've come back in games in Champions League fixtures. You've seen it when they've not been at their best, but they still grind out wins. You look at that London City game, for example. and all of those experiences will just back them up coming into a game like this, even if they are backs against the wall.

19:16Chloe: I don't think they necessarily will be, but even if they are, they have that in their locker and they know they have that in their locker. And that used to be Chelsea's biggest weapon was their mentality and being able to dig out a win when they were struggling. So yeah, it makes it all the more interesting. I don't know how you stop Shaw. We've seen defenders where they look like they're like, it's fine, she's back to goal. I'm, you know, touch tight. he's no space to manoeuvre and then suddenly you're like great the ball's in the back of the net what just happened so

19:45Rachel: how is it that you as a defender have done everything in the textbook and still not stopped there it's yeah I don't

19:52Chloe: you know Chelsea have only conceded five goals half of what Manchester City have conceded but I mean Bunny Shaw has scored more goals than some teams in the league so far this season that's crazy so I mean if we were to have like the team's goals for I feel like Bunny Shaw would be above some teams. Arsenal, Everton, I'm looking at you. There's a couple more, but that in itself is ridiculous.

20:15Rachel: Everton, Aston Villa, Crystal Palace, West Ham. Charlton. Charlton, Liverpool, Birmingham. She'd be like fifth or sixth in the table. That is absolutely... Oh, sorry, not Liverpool. That's the only one that was false news out of those. Man United and Arsenal. Yeah, that is absolutely wild. What a season. And I think it goes back to that. it's like can you stop Bunny Shaw if you can stop Bunny Shaw you might have a chance of winning this game if you can't good luck bon chance coming up after this I got to see a belter at Crystal Palace on Sunday

21:06Rachel: oh this was such a good game i did not know what to expect crystal palace versus charlton at the 360 engage um such a weird commentator said it at one point and i was like where where are they they're in like a spaceship it kept saying it as well and i was like i don't i don't know but it was such a i think it was a game where there was so much riding on it i think maybe like you might have missed what was happening in this game because obviously charlton yet to pick up a point at the bottom of the table still struggling with life in the wsl which we kind of knew and we anticipated the I think there's one of our first shows in pre-season saying like who do we think here is going to struggle and Charlton was I think our number one choice and rightly so like the infrastructure the investment the ability to kind of get in new players has been a bit hampered by the budgets and things obviously they've got Karen Hills who's obviously um you know incredible manager got Spurs up and I've got Charlton up like she's she's um a robust manager she's like a hardy manager you know gritty and determined but there's only so much you can do And this season has been horrible for all of them because yet to pick up a point, yet to pick up a win.

22:17Rachel: They're facing Crystal Palace. They've also had a pretty torrid time, but less so. You know, they've managed to pick up a win and a few draws as well to kind of alleviate the pressure at the bottom. So it felt like this was a real battle for points to help alleviate the pressure rather than anything else. And for Charlton to kind of create history by getting their first points in the WSL. it was at the first 15 minutes I've got to tell you I was nervous for Palace really nervous because Karen Hills's tactics have got to have been go all guns blazing I don't care whether you've got any energy left for the rest of the game but you will go for the first 15 minutes you will run your heart out and you will like get all your stats up and you'll just go 100 % all in because for the first 15 minutes Charlton just took the game to Palace it just felt like wave after wave of attack And I really thought that Charlton, especially Jodie Hutton, who was incredible on that left-hand side, just whipping in balls left, right and centre.

23:13Rachel: No one able to get on the end of it, which I think was quite frustrating for her to not capitalise on those early chances. But then Crystal Palace go ahead 1-0 just before the hour. The game had kind of flattened out a little bit since then. But then it just became like a barnstorming game of just goal, end-to-end, goal, end-to-end, a penalty, goal. It was just chaos, right?

23:39Chloe: I think Charlton will be really frustrated because they started really well. They had five shots in the first half, three on target, two big chances missed. You know, they'll be so frustrated that they didn't capitalize on that. They still created chances in the second half. They had another five shots, three on target. You know, another big chance missed. Granted, Crystal Palace has created more. They had a much better second half. But like they had a 1.67 XG in the second half, Charlton, compared to 0.33 despite the fast start. So they had a better expected goal difference in the game, more shots on target than Crystal Palace, which you wouldn't necessarily have said about a Charlton who've been struggling in front of goal.

24:19Chloe: I think they showed a bravery and a fight that we probably haven't seen that much of this season, understandably. I think we saw, and I've touched on it before, a really brave performance against Manchester City, and I've been wanting to see more of that. And I think you did in this game. And I don't know, maybe it was like there's a bit of naivety in terms of game management. They got their goals very quickly. They had 15 minutes plus injury time to kind of try and manage it, and they weren't able to do that. So it is gutting for them. it would have been a real bit of a pressure release for them.

24:55Chloe: That was such a funny moment in the game, I think,

24:57Rachel: that kind of when they were ahead 2-1, 15 minutes left, and they were celebrating. I think we talked about this just before the pod started. They were celebrating like it was a Euros final, which is good. Obviously, it's a goal that means a lot to them. They're struggling for goals, but at the same time... They've never been ahead in a game. You've still got 15 minutes plus extra time left. Karen Hills is on the bench, kind of obviously super excited, but she's trying to suppress like a bit of a, Christ, this could be the day that our fortunes turn type of smile. And then, because obviously that would have been like Charlton's first win the WSL for almost 20 years.

25:35Rachel: So like the impact of that moment is huge, but you still have 15 minutes. And Crystal Palace came at them, all guns blazing, knocking down the door, trying to get this winner. Beth England then comes on. she's not started the game which i think everyone sort of had a little bit of a question mark over but god what a weapon bringing like can you imagine them seeing her coming on going christ i think it's what it was one of those moments like heads down like oh god we've really got to ride this out back to the wall now what time did she come on as well she came on the 64th

26:03Chloe: minute okay so like they they went ahead while she was on the pitch so maybe that kind of gave

26:08Rachel: them the confidence still we got this guys it's fine it was squeaky bum time beth england it was a thingy in from a ball in from a thingy a thingy in a thingy that's what we used to call it at Spurs yeah just get the thingy in and then thingy the thingy in the back of the thingy Amy Everett delivers the ball in it was so scrappy couldn't work out what was going to happen like keepers all over the place like bodies everywhere and then Bethany England literally toe pokes like toenail pokes it past Sophie Whitehouse 90th minute it happens to be at the Crystal Palace fan end as well. Fans exploded, teams exploded.

26:49Rachel: It's just, it felt like, again, like another cup final moment where everyone's just absolutely lost their shit. Charlton, head in hands, have let this game get away from them. And it felt like there were points that it should have been theirs. But to be honest, I think a draw probably would have been a very balanced and even fair result for this game because it was scrappy. It didn't really feel like there were any moments in this game where either side had much possession. It was like they'd pick up the ball. There was a couple of really loose passes, especially in the final third, overhit passes, passes to the opposition.

27:22Rachel: Yeah, a couple of times. Like sloppy mistakes.

27:24Chloe: Overhit passes constantly down the right. And it was like, you have time and space and you keep sending it too long. And it'd be like half a metre too long.

27:32Rachel: I was like, oh God, just take a little bit of pace off it. Come on. Genuinely, it did feel like there was, yeah, I think maybe the intensity to win kind of led to kind of these unforced errors in a way. And then it just got really scrappy in the middle of the pitch where like they both kept trying to play the ball out wide. They both really congested these areas and kind of almost like penned each other in to like the sidelines. So it was constant, the ball was constantly going out of play and then it became just very stop start and I don't feel any team could really build momentum properly.

28:02Chloe: Like obviously this was a huge game for Charlton, but you got to remember Crystal Palace were on six points. they are still waiting and so are we for the outcome of this whole you know fielding an extra substitute and an extra window substitute window and using an extra substitute window you know could that be losing those three points if they lost this game and Charlton won it suddenly you know it could be neck and neck right down the bottom so this was yes it was a huge game for Charlton to get potentially their first points on the board but for Palace it was also giving them that cushion that should that happen we don't know still um at least they've given themselves

28:40Rachel: a little bit of leeway definitely I mean now I mean you look at sort of the impact of that game yeah because it's so tight in that pack so from like what Arsenal at six with 13 points down to Liverpool uh on eight points I mean you've got a gap of five but you've got a positioning of like six or seven places there it's crazy so yeah Crystal Palace now have daylight between themselves just from winning that game. Charlton, like we keep saying, yet without a point, yet without a game. But when would that moment come? Because you're thinking, okay, well, if they can't win against a Crystal Palace and pick up a point, if you can't win against a Birmingham, the chance of you winning against any of the top four sides, if not the middle section, the middle pack, are so far and few between, if not just unrealistic.

29:26Rachel: And there's a worry that I have, and it's not a good look for the league to have a season where a team goes completely pointless. I said, or do you think actually Charlton still have it in them to scrape a point, some points? And will it matter even? Do you think?

29:42Chloe: Look, there's still a January window to come that could potentially help them if they put their hand in their pocket. But there's a lovely stat here that producer Finn put in saying they're not the only team to endure a start like this in recent seasons. And we saw Leicester City escape relegation when they didn't pick up a single point in their opening seven games. Oh gosh, that is. but I think yeah look at least they play everybody twice so there is still the opportunity to pick up points in places to learn from the games that you've played but it just puts more pressure on every fixture doesn't it so look I think they know where they are in their journey but it's a tough road I just

30:18Rachel: I don't want to see a team struggle this much and I think it's I think like sometimes you've got to bring it back to like the personal and the human element of it like when you're going week in week out you know eight nine games in you're yet to pick up point and it's like the the impact that that has on player morale to be able to like take yourself into the next game to like even go into that game with hope because you still need hope and you still need passion that you're gonna win this but like it starts to dwindle and you're thinking really the odds are against us and like relegation is like looming in the back of your mind your jobs your careers are on the line you don't know what life is going to look like after this like the squad's broken up it kind of feels like um that that's always kind of sitting there and that's a really horrible feeling to go into every game so thoughts for the players because it's not a nice situation to be in and to some extent I think their hands have been tied behind their backs up next for Charlton uh West Ham on Sunday then Aston Villa at home before the international break and then on Wednesday they've got Ipswich Town in the League Cup so that might be a quite good chance to be in with a win yeah that's happening um this week before their their WSL

31:22Chloe: next WSL fixture so an opportunity to maybe build a little bit of confidence get some goals It'll be a tough game. But yeah, it's an opportunity where I think some of these teams that are struggling in the league can find a little bit of form. Come on, Charlton.

31:36Rachel: You've got this. Come on. Do not go pointless. You've got this. Coming up after this, a team who almost went pointless for the entire season. Arsenal have a week from hell, but is it an opportunity?

31:56Rachel: Oh Arsenal another win but squeaky bum time it was a 2-1 win at Anfield against Liverpool pressure is easing on Arsenal slightly as in getting the wins helps the matter in which they get the wins not so much um a brace from Alessia Russo the first coming nine minutes in really rare early goal for Arsenal but what a goal it was um taken first time from Russo there was a clinicalness to this goal that I think everyone had been shouting for and wanting and demanding and then Emily Fox and Russo deliver that within 10 minutes and people are like oh Christ this is it this is the moment this is the turning point this is everything that we've been chasing for Rene's actually finally got a message across the players are like yeah we know what we're supposed to be doing first touch straight in the back of the net you're like whoa okay game on that lasted six minutes

33:05oh

33:06Chloe: no but you know what it was a quick goal it was a quick bit of play none of this dilly dally passing around the box it was ball in

33:14Rachel: first time do that more genuinely and it was lovely it was beautiful to see crowds got mad absolutely crazy uh that's seven goals in her past four games in all competitions for for Russo so she feels like she's a player who's like really starting to find form now and a bit more consistency at least someone is yeah well I think this is the thing it's like some players are but some players don't feel like they're on the same page currently but what is positive movement okay Let's just, the overall positive movement. But like you said, Rage, that lasted four, five, six minutes, was it? Olsen, one pass, she's picked out the Arsenal back line.

33:58Rachel: There's three of them, three of them on that back line who are around Olsen when that ball is played.

34:03Chloe: So there are multiple things in this goal that I think exemplified what's going on in Arsenal. So this wasn't like a counter-attack where they suddenly lost possession high up the pitch. This was Liverpool playing out from the back. And there were three defenders, so Taylor, Hines, Williamson, Fox, in a line. And then Steph Catley was about three or four metres behind them in line with Olsen, effectively playing her onside. Then you watch the ball come through and you watch like three or four Arsenal midfielders just kind of trot backwards as Liverpool bring the ball. Nobody engages with the player.

34:38Chloe: Nope. So because Steph Cattley is so far back, Olsen's on side. So that through ball cuts three defenders out, right? I would argue Steph Cattley steps up. That doesn't happen. So there's a complete lack of communication there. Yeah, that's fair. So yeah, through ball goes through. Leah Williamson then is chasing back with Olsen, puts in a really weak kind of effort, not strong enough. You know, I know you don't want to take the player down as a last defender, whatever, but you put in a harder tackle. you push her wide, you hold up play, any of that business. And then I would argue the keeper should have done better.

35:12Chloe: It was a great strike from Olsen, so strong to pick up the ball the way she did, shrug off Williamson, bury it in the back corner. And I don't want to take away from that. But there were just so many like, here, here, here, here. You're like, this could have been stopped if any one of you had, you know. So I think that kind of, it shows what's kind of not going right for Arsenal. There's a lack of communication. There's a lack of confidence. And yeah, it was just a bit of a shambles.

35:37Rachel: I just couldn't understand how those very small errors, each individual one had built up to... It's like a domino effect, isn't it? 100%, yeah. I mean, Arsenal got super lucky. It was an offside decision that was made, and it looked like Vivian Enderman was judged to touch the ball, but the replay kind of showed that it was Catley who kind of knocked it in Clark's direction. So technically the goal should have stood, and I think obviously Liverpool fans are not happy with this at all. and Arsenal feel like they've just about got away with it, essentially. Got away with three points in this game.

36:13Chloe: Yeah, look, I think there have been controversial moments in games this season and discussions around refs, etc., which I fully understand. I think when there's a decision where you have to go back to multiple replays and go, oh, see, it was someone else that touched it or whatever, didn't touch it, whatever it might be, then perhaps you could be like, okay, well, if we need replays, the refs don't have that for those replays then the other side of me goes well then if you can't have seen something that didn't happen so if you it's a bit like a penalty you know you if you if something didn't happen there's no way you saw it so if you if you can't be sure should you make the decision you know what I mean so it's that like you know if if it had happened where the flag didn't go up or whatever if it had been that you didn't make the decision and therefore it wasn't a goal I could maybe understand that more but to make a decision on something you think you saw that you didn't see because ultimately that's not what happened then you're like well should you be so that's the kind of grappling I'm having with it but you know I think when it comes down to having to look back and relook at replays you know yes I can imagine for Liverpool fans it's bloody frustrating because it absolutely should have been a goal um but then at the same time we've got the benefit of watching it back in slow-mo and close-up to see that actually it did come off Steph Cattley's calf because if it hadn't she was in an offside position yeah but because it did graze off her calf therefore she wasn't so should have stood your analytics today then bang on really bang on I can understand the frustration and it's happened before you know with Tottenham and stuff like that the other thing I will say is yes they could have gotten that goal it doesn't then determine the outcome of the game it doesn't mean like they would have absolutely 100 % won the game particularly given it was in the first half but it changes the nature of it it changes how both teams respond if I'm honest it's the mentality 100 %

38:04Rachel: I felt frustrated for the fans because like there's a part a big part of me that feels like they should have at least got a draw from this game it felt like Liverpool were coming probably with the better chances I'd say Kapov's the flying header it's more a strike and also I mean Rene Slegers is also admitting you know after the game towards the end we defended for our lives and played with so much passion and pride with three bodies in front of the goal, which you absolutely did. And he got it over the line, which I think is a fair assessment, but it just feels like...

38:33Chloe: It's become such an arsenal thing to be hanging on, like hanging on to a draw or hanging on to a... Just score more fucking goals. Like this attitude of like, oh, well, our noses are in front, so let's see if we can hang on because that goes so well for you in the past. I just, I don't get that kind of, yes, celebrate the fact that you did manage to cling on with your fingernails. That is a positive for you, I suppose. And you are trying to pull positives from things. But at the same time, like, there's such a team that when you're watching them, you're going, yeah, there may be one nil up. But that, you know, the other team could definitely score.

39:02Chloe: And it's that kind of, it must be so frustrating if you're an Arsenal fan anyway. Because, like, when you're watching it, you're like, I mean, this game isn't over yet. Like, you just know that something's going to happen. Someone's going to get caught out at the back or there's going to be a mistake. And so, yeah, I mean, for Arsenal, they can definitely take that, that they did hang on. And, like, they did create more and they did have more shots on target, which is Arsenal all over this season. I think for Liverpool, what adds to the frustration is that they've had games like this this season where they have performed well and they have created and they've not taken.

39:32Chloe: So that's what makes it all the more frustrating is that they were able to do that against Arsenal. Arsenal are a team currently there for the taking. They're kind of, you know, showing their neck. Do you know what I mean? They're pretty good to, you know, and to not be able to take that will be frustrating for them.

39:47Rachel: I think it's also like where Liverpool now are. Like you're 12th on the table. You're on eight points. Three points would have taken you up to eighth in the league. I mean, this is a massive one for Arsenal in terms of even being in contention for the Champions League. So they're only three points. Well, actually, to be fair, there's six points clear of London City at the moment. So it's daylight, but it's not unmanageable. Well, I mean, this game should provide at least the win and the confidence that comes from that, because they're bloody well going to need it. Arsenal face Barcelona in the Champions League on Thursday.

40:22Rachel: Their last meeting was in the Champions League final. Barca are the only team to have won every game in the Champions League this season. They've registered an 8-0 win, a 7-0 win, a 5-1 win and a 4-0 win. To be fair, the goals are at least going down as they win, all within their last six games in all competitions. It feels like a really exciting time for Barca to be facing Arsenal because Barca on flying form, not struggling for goals, scoring left, right and centre. Arsenal really struggling to find the back of the net, even when the ball is in fact on the line. So what are you expecting going into?

41:03Rachel: I feel like I almost know your answer, Rach, but what are you expecting going into this matchup?

41:07Chloe: Well, I just feel like Arsenal have managed to kind of plaster their shaky wooden house back together. And there's a hurricane on the horizon. Like it just, you're kind of holding the wall, like everything's fine. and you're like that's a great analogy what is that coming over the hill and like you know you've got London City Lionesses skipping along beside them going we're coming too so yeah this is a I think a scary week for Arsenal it's very much going to be like obviously a physical test for them no doubt but like how they're going to mentally prepare the team for it to not see it as a scary week and to see it as like a opportunity I don't know the good thing about look the good thing about Arsenal at the moment is they're doing relatively well in the league table, in the Champions League.

41:50Chloe: This is not the most important game for them, I would say, in the Champions League. This one against Barcelona, the London City game, probably a bit more important for them in terms of getting back into, potentially trying to get back into those Champions League spots. So where do you put your resource? Where do you put your focus? That being said, hammering from Barcelona is not great for the morale either. So yeah, it's a tricky week to balance, that's for sure

42:17Rachel: wouldn't be great for the fans either I think they'd probably have something to say about sort of capitulating to Barca especially what to buy the best

42:23Chloe: friggin team in the world I mean manage your expectations

42:26Rachel: your team are being not good this season the manner in which you capitulate if you come away from that game with an 8-0 against Barca there will be serious questions asked

42:36Chloe: it's happened before to English teams if that's where you're drawing your line if being hammered by Barcelona is where you draw your line how have you not drawn your line anywhere else this season Arsenal have won the Champions League in the last couple of like as in like like no but that's a different team in a different season you can't say they're the exact same

42:54Rachel: and playing the same way they're in a completely different place right now there's a lot of players that were at the team who are still in the team at that win still same manager still same level of investment and infrastructure and training I understand that but they're not playing well this season

43:10Chloe: to expect them to go in and like have a cagey 1-0 loss to Barcelona if that's your expectations what have you been watching this season

43:17Rachel: I don't expect any side of that calibre with that level of talent to be capitulating an 8-0 loss to Barcelona whether you've had an absolute shitter of a season or not like that is just Chelsea did it again I don't it's an unjustifiable loss like I don't mind the loss I'm saying if that's the reason

43:37Chloe: you think serious questions need to be asked what have you been doing this whole season

43:41Rachel: oh no is it like questions should have been asked beforehand but like that feels like Like, Christ, we've really hit rock bottom here. Like, what the hell? Like, at least there was some positives that we were starting to get some wins. Like, the clinical nurse is, like, starting to pick up a little bit. But then a destructive loss to Bart. I don't know. Obviously, they've got London City Lionesses, Rach, as you mentioned this weekend, too. London City on absolute flying form. Michelle Kang has pretty much got exactly what she asked for to date. The Avengers. The Champions League spot is theirs for the moment.

44:10Rachel: Three points clear of Tottenham in fourth. this is a pivotal game for Arsenal it does feel like the Arsenal-London City matchup that is the Champions League spot kind of derby essentially well I wouldn't say that I'd say

44:25Chloe: because you know if Arsenal weren't fourth maybe we could call it that but Arsenal's hopes for trying to get back into that spot ride on this game for sure I think the

44:35Rachel: Champions League derby to me feels like an Arsenal Man United Tottenham and London City that's the four four teams yeah that's the four teams in this derby. Yeah. If we're thinking about like the priority that Arsenal place on this, do you want to throw everything into the Champions League, the Barca game? Or do you want to prioritise this game with London City like NS's and concentrate on making sure that you pick up Champions League qualification next year? Because like the investment, the finances, the expectation to do that is so high for them. I think,

45:07Chloe: I think losing to Barcelona doesn't destroy your chances of progressing in this Champions League at the moment. There are other games to play. You've picked up points on the board. You still have the opportunity to finish at least within that top eight. Losing to London City will seriously, seriously damage their Champions League prospects for next season.

45:27Rachel: I think it's also worth flagging that Arsenal have this game on Thursday, which means they have even less time to prep for the weekend at the importance of this Champions League derby against London City.

45:38Chloe: So yes, that is arguably the more important game. And it's going to be a very difficult game. So that would be, in my opinion, where the priority should be.

45:48Rachel: All right, René, you've heard it here first. That should be your tactics. Sack off Barcelona. I don't know. Sack off Barcelona. Manage their press. Play your academy in the Champions League. And then just focus on the City line. This is this weekend. Anyway, after that shocking analysis, thank you so much for listening to this episode of Upfront. You can find us on Instagram and X plus Twitter. I'm at morgi underscore 89. Rach is at girls in the ball and we are at upfront underscore pod. You can also find us on YouTube at upfront pod. See you next week.

46:35Rachel: Upfront is a stack production and part of the Acast creator network. Thank you.