Building AI Agents That Actually Work for Enterprise SEO

0:00The Voices of Search podcast is a proud member of the I Hear Everything podcast network. Looking to launch or scale your podcast? I Hear Everything delivers podcast production, growth, and monetization solutions that transform your words into profit. Ready to give your brand a voice? Then visit IHearEverything.com. AI search is changing how customers discover information. But enterprise SEO teams are oftentimes still overlooking some of the more valuable resources that can be used to drive strategy and decision-making in this new world. While the industry focuses on algorithms and AI models, companies are sitting on consumer data that can reveal real opportunities traditional keyword research may miss.

0:45My name is Tyson, and joining me today is Venkata Pagadala, AI Product Manager for Search at AT &T. Today, we're going to be exploring how enterprise SEO teams can turn their own data into deeper understandings of consumer and better search results.

1:05With that, welcome to the podcast, Venketa.

1:08Venkata Pagadala: Thank you, Strasen. Thank you so much for having me here. It's been a long time coming. I think you and I, we've known each other over the last, I don't know, four or five years at this point. and I feel like I've been wanting to bring you on the show and so it feels good to finally have you on. My pleasure is mine. Now you've been putting out a lot of research which one later in the conversation I want to come back to like that whole positioning on but one through line that I've been noticing and a lot of the stuff that you've been sharing is it feels like a lot of it is like almost hitting at the foundational core of consumer behavior versus some of the more like traditional keyword research or like market analysis that we've done in the past in SEO.

1:57So maybe like, I'd love to hear from your perspective, like within this new world of AI search and LLMs, why do you find that to be such a critical focal point for a lot of your research?

2:12Venkata Pagadala: Yeah, I think going back to the foundation and fundamentals, we often think more of Google and I started to see why the Google is invented. What is the purpose of the Google? It's to show the relevant results for an end user for relevant queries. So Google is a middle player that provides the data, classified data, shows you the stuff. If you have the first-party data, such as call recordings, what are the user-first touch points on your own product or service or a site or any platform, why don't we try to directly understand without any middle players? So because that's the data that no competitors doesn't have.

2:57Venkata Pagadala: That's a data that is so much valuable than a third-party classification because I do respect the platforms like Ahrefs, SEMrush, Google. They did an amazing job. But we have to keep in mind they have some limits. They don't provide everything and anything. but if it's my own data i can do i can go as deep as i want to no filters so then i was thinking like okay let's dive in test in make sure it makes sense to have the data but based on some findings of our own first data i would never find that on third-party platforms and how for someone that's maybe like either hasn't seen your research or maybe it's like just coming from the traditional world of like the standard keyword research approach how would you like advise people to be like expanding their horizon or their like vantage point on what they're looking at as a source because you mentioned like call transcripts like if it's a you know more of a first party kind of customer serve service element of a business Like, how should we be resetting our perspective on data sources?

4:17Venkata Pagadala: Yeah, I would make it simple framework, which I'm trying to write a paper on that as well. It's like, if you are a user, don't assume like an SEO or growth hacker or like anything. If you are a user, if you're trying to buy this product or service, example, if I'm trying to buy a mic, I go see what are the best mics. so comparison data see what are the comparison sources that people are finding from reddit like blogs are good but true blogs not like a sales blog that include their stuff in it and then i read reviews then i'm going to see like uh what are the cons of it and so if you are like an user what are the sources you find and try to see from that dimension you will find like the sources directly like reviews uh discussion for wherever there is a ugc content that is gold mine uh i think that's where i heavily focus on because that's like a user directly producing uh content which either bought it or happy or unhappy so those kind of and sources are gold mine so reviews ratings uh response rates how a product owner example if it's unhappy for a service or product, how the company is responding to that kind of things.

5:34Venkata Pagadala: That tells me that, okay, example, classic example, Costco. I really like Costco because their return policies, their customer service is much better. I have a peace of mind buying there. So if you start looking from user, you'll find sources. Again, each and every company and a product based on a project, you choose the sources varies. It's not like a one formula that works for everyone. example would be if my product or service is targeting 30 or 35 years plus people then imagine where does a people of that age group spend most time on is it a facebook is it instagram is it a tiktok is it a reddit are they going to read which kind of websites so if you analyze based on targeted audience you're trying to sell and serve then you can understand where they stay in and if you look from a user perspective you know what are the important elements to see combine those things which in in some ways i feel like it is a fresh perspective because it's like you're pulling in like all these external sources in some fundamental level it still feels like in the ethos or the core of like what we've been preaching in search for a while where it's like focus on the user and like look at driving value to the user and so it's like in some ways it's not a huge deviation but it feels like beyond maybe where we are competing in search right now with like the progression of like changing user experience whether it's with google ai mode or within chat gpt perplexity cloud whatever it is it feels like too from like a tooling capability that maybe these other data sources are also like more approachable than they used to be.

7:22Venkata Pagadala: Yeah, 100%. This is kind of a thing that we usually say during the research market, researchers beyond something like SEOs, most people follow these kind of things. But I need to make sure, like I need to ask ourselves that in how many strategies that did we actually pull queries from YouTube comments, YouTube transcripts, Facebook groups? Where does our real audience taste? Are we actually integrating it? Because like understanding personas is a different thing, but also my kind of a gap I'm seeing in the industry level is like just people talk, but are they leveraging that? It's the biggest gap I see.

8:06Venkata Pagadala: And sorry, you're asking this other question. It's like tooling perspective. absolutely AI is a game changer right now. Because like, again, I was like, shared a video yesterday night that you can create a slop at scale or you can use AI to create a meaningful content by understanding large datasets. So with an APIs and MCP servers, you can actually pull the threads, comments and everything. And I think the key thing here is a classification that was one of the biggest gap I'm seeing including myself is like okay we pull topical research, keyword research, we pull like maybe 10 ,000, 20 ,000 keywords but I think if you're trying to do at scale and find the hidden gems you have to look at industry level and yeah I analyze like 5.8 million queries but I clean up 3 million noise queries.

9:03Venkata Pagadala: I think that's where I'm seeing the where people like talk, where people collect, and where people take an action. So those are three kind of different things because classifying, like you, if you're classifying some industry, you need to be extremely knowledgeable on what are the sources, what is the industry, who are the big players, who are the small players, what are the government sources. So you have to play really like understand the whole industry. And I think that is a one big gap I'm seeing. Still even AI cannot classify the data if you give like a million queries and ask to classify.

9:42Venkata Pagadala: Even Cloud Fable 5.1 cannot do at scale. Interesting. Now, I'd like to poke a little bit more on that. So you walked us through right there in the sense of 5 million queries, 3 million in change. you said you cleaned out like walk us through that approach a little bit because it sounds like from like a surface level it's like and this is an oversimplification but it's almost like cast the net wider yes so you're ensure you're capturing everything and then zero in on like the value or the gold within it how are you deciphering or like what advice do you have of how do you sift out that noise versus value by expanding your data set like that?

10:36Venkata Pagadala: Yeah, I think the first criteria is this is a formula I follow. One, as a human being, what I did nine months ago, 10 months ago, I went to all my competitor sites, checked the main news, sub-main news, footer links. By that, I can understand pretty much what are the core topics they're trying to talk about. If you do that at scale, like big players, small players, medium players, you'll understand some kind of level of topic. Then go to Wikipedia. Use these topics and build subtopics. And then go to like common crawl or sources where you can get a gigantic data from. That's another source of point.

11:16Venkata Pagadala: Pull all the data or URLs, keywords, ranking for competitors and yours on Wikipedia page from Ahrefs and SEMrush and Data for SEO. I always ask to double down on, do not rely on one source. Try to do like two or three sources because you can dedupe it, but you can find hidden gems. So once you have one competitive data, one source of truth data, and three, Wikipedia gives you like a more of a deeper layer of subtopics, topics, then leverage the internal like URL structures, and then you go to the social signals. And then like once, like each and every time you, the key is once you knock down the L1, like what are the broader topics?

12:06Venkata Pagadala: Example, to make it simplified again, I want like an devices, okay? Devices, then it goes to brand, Apple, Samsung, whatever it may be. And in Apple, there is an iPhone, iPad, iWatch MacBook. In iPhones, there is an iPhone 18 family, an iPhone Duo, iPhone protein. So you need to understand the whole depth of it. You only understand when you analyze competitors, source of truth data. And then once you build L1, L2s, L3s, then pull the queries from different sources. Example, okay, iPhone 18. Most classification ends where color, storage, like maybe charging capacity, or iPhone 17 versus iPhone 18.

12:58Venkata Pagadala: But the real queries I'm seeing in Reddit or like different platforms are, hey, my phone is too big. I'm having iPhone 16. Can I have, what is the best phone that have long battery? So that is like zero search volume. But this person is really trying to trade in this device and get a new device. So what kind of content you can build? You don't need to build every content for every query. You can need to say, hey, if size is a problem and you can trade in any of these devices and get iPhone 17 Pro or 18 Pro. So some people say, hey, I'm logged in in XYZ ecosystem. I really like a Samsung Fold. How can I migrate my Apple data to Samsung data, like to Android?

13:49Venkata Pagadala: Zero search volume. But this person is really ready to buy. So these can be happening in where people cannot ask in websites or comments, right? They're going to go Reddit. They're going to go Quora, Substack. They really want to using YouTube to understand the shots. how do so that's where you find the new topics where the search volumes cannot show that interesting and in some ways too i feel like search volume's been like kind of like hate to say it but like a little bit of a dirty kpi in my mind because over the last 10 years it's been manipulated and skewed so much from like google's keyword planner to then clickstream data yep that it's like personal opinion i think it's directional at best but not to be viewed in like an absolute term and so i think like you're calling out this like red herring of zero search volume queries yeah but i think like kind of what jumped out for me in your explanation is in a lot of ways it's more of that the technology or industry wasn't ready yet to meet the consumer need where there's always been this element of personalization and in in your same phone example like i went through this with my wife where she's coming from an iphone 13 which was like mini which was the last year they made the mini smallest phones yeah so she wants smallest iphone and that's still at the thing and it's like there's a lot of people so it's like following that zero search volume or like using that as a guiding principle is just like gonna be pretty limited overall where this is really giving us like almost like more credibility to lean into that personalization which i feel is also going to be more and more rewarded within search because you have on one hand like the variance of results are going to be greater and greater as the systems can lean further into personalization of having this context layer on the user and so it's like you have to like shed that previous mindset of like too small search volume no yeah that that's where the biggest like to be honest you hit at two points like i think i forgot to express myself is like one of the core reasons it's driven from is like I believe hands down the SERP within a matter of months it's going to be extremely different for a person to person plus the like AI responses are already extremely different from person to person so as a marketer someone asks me like what are you going to do if if you can't track you can't rank you can't do anything I said like marketers job is not SEO nor AI, nothing.

16:45Venkata Pagadala: Marketers job is to connect. Where is my consumer? And what can I do in order to hit that? Like maybe 10, 20 years ago, it's like newspapers, maybe 50 years ago, it's newspapers, pamphlets, billboards. After that, we evolved into like physical meals. Then we evolved into websites. Then we evolved into apps. And then tomorrow it's going to be voice agents or whatever. Like our job is to understand that that's where I'm going to going back to fundamental is such volumes are great. And they did a phenomenal job on collecting, categorizing. But the industry went too far, too fast. I think there is an infrastructural gap where, hey, how do you win AI?

17:31If you start with search volume, it's going to be really tough.

17:35Venkata Pagadala: Even on interviews, I would highly recommend do not talk about SEO strategies. in AI. SEO studies are good foundationals, but in interviews, they're expecting you to explain, I know SEO, I know technical SEO, I know content SEO, but tell me something different. It doesn't need to be right. Share some experiments that how we can test it. So I think the personalization is one reason why we need to focus on personas, query fanouts, and I'm going to share like persona-based query fanouts and even the prompt tracking right now, what we are doing, I'm questioning myself as well. I'm going to talk whenever there is a topic on that, but I think the way we track prompt, single prompt should not be a definition of are we ranking or not.

18:25Absolutely. And it is an interesting facet of that kind of pivot point. I feel like I want to double back and I'm sorry, but I'm going to put you on the spot here a little bit yeah and part of this is i i want to give you a shout out give you some kind of you know some flowers in the sense that you've been putting out a lot of research with just the motive of sharing and contributing to the community and so like i feel like it is worth to double back a little bit like we've talked about an approach of like hey we need to have a wider perspective we need to think about this more in the consumer research like realm but you recently gave us talk at brain seo maybe if you could kind of just give a little bit more to the listeners as far as like how they can dive deeper into your research being that you've made so much of this just available to the open community yeah i think first like if they can

19:27Venkata Pagadala: follow the check in my LinkedIn stuff. I usually make it kind of a public and I usually don't ask emails or anything. I try to rely more on open source. There's one reason. Before that, I want to thank you for identifying this and I think thank you for seeing that. And I just also want to give you back a shout out because like I was like, by the way, Previsible helped me to place in apartments.com so that is a one direct uh directional change in my creative path so um like we are working on some things and things popped up and tyson was the person who's behind that so i do respect not only because he placed me at apartments.com it's purely of they understand your needs it's not getting a job it's like getting a best job where you can explore and grow so that's the one reason i want to give a shout out to previsible and you especially tyson for that.

20:24Venkata Pagadala: I think that's the reason I'm hitting a right phase of that. So going to back, they can check me in LinkedIn. And also I started my own website because the algorithm is in LinkedIn, algorithm is changing sometimes. It's showing weeks post, which is two weeks old, where I need like time sensitive things. So LinkedIn and my website is a good source of truth. But if you still can't get the details, please DM me. I'll be more active than any other app on my phone. So LinkedIn is a good one. And I also like want to thank the LinkedIn audience, especially of people who are following, because there is in last 10 years, there is cases where I was doubting myself.

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22:47Venkata Pagadala: When AI is 3.5, everyone I'm talking about, no one trusted me at all. Like, no one trusted me. And at that point, it would be so difficult to convince and do an uphill battle. At that point, I was doubting myself. Am I really good fit for a job? and then I started okay let's let's close eyes do whatever we feel to do in LinkedIn nothing is going to hurt so I did that and that's where the reach contacts speaking opportunities writing papers and there's a lot of people corrected me as well so that's the reason why I'm deciding that the next generation like Bill Siloski was my inspiration the next generation should at least remember me.

23:32Venkata Pagadala: If not, it's they don't remember remembering me or not doesn't mind, but they should have a right directional content they can follow. Let's let's double back on that one, too. Like. Why is Bill Swaminski such like a inspirational figure for you? Like, what was it about his work that kind of fuels your research? Yeah, and I think when I was starting my career, I think when you guys started, there will be no material. But I started my career like 10, 15 something, 10 years ago. There is no content at that point. There is no textbooks. There is no YouTube videos I can really follow and go through.

24:12Venkata Pagadala: and Bill Slask is one this guy, this person sorry, this person is he's not driven by money he's not driven by like any any kind of a brand endorsement he's not driven by that he genuinely live in what he's doing like no one can do the work that he contributed can be motivated by money like literally if you were money driven, you shut out your laptop by 7 or 8 and sleep. I know this, like, Bill Slosky is like, the amount of content, the type of content he produces, it literally used to take a couple of hours to understand what is this person trying to say? It's like, because 10 years ago, SEO was like, oh, changing a tax.

24:58Venkata Pagadala: Or SEO is simply updating URLs. No, he is the person before talking about entities, and he's the person talking about all the patents. I think I think I if I need to be one in my career like I want to follow his footsteps and inspire our next generation to think why and he's not a person of like oh the best xyz no he find his own path he believed what he's doing he double downed it because I respect anyone who's doing experiments and asking why it doesn't matter you can be the whole number of SEO or like you can be a new beginner but if you can't ask why you're simply following what's on the road for me that's a huge one too that both attracted me to search because it's like none of us studied this.

25:56It's like all of us fell from one place or another into the industry. One of the like, fundamental, I think, characteristics that I look for, and if I'm recruiting, if I'm, I don't know, just meeting other people in the industry, is it's almost that inherent nature of curiosity, where it's like you're searching for explanation and searching for the why of how things work yep because and for me it was more in the sense of just in the position of like great we feel like we have full agency of whatever information we want is at our fingertips well how does that work how do we get that information so it's like to me just understanding the world around yeah but i think like what you're scratching or like kind of hitting it is more of like a fundamental characteristic of like and especially in today's how fast like it's always been a fast-paced industry now it's even faster moving than ever but it's like if you don't have that inherent love or change complexity curiosity this is going to be a super tough industry to stay relevant in.

27:16Totally. But if you are just pushing that envelope of why, how did this work? How is it changing? Why is it? And not being like, like you can never get too comfortable in your process either, because inevitably, like if you don't change that process in the next three or six months, like your property already.

27:36Venkata Pagadala: You'll be forced to. You'll be forced to. And I think what you meant is a really good point is because like when we are choosing this career, SEO is not a highest paid job. Like software development was the highest paid job. I believe the people who choose SEO genuinely like what they do, at least like majority of people who choose in the career. And I think that's a key thing. if you're not curious and asking why, and I also think this is the really greatest opportunity for us, like who have enough knowledge sharing in public, willing to do that. It's a time to rewrite the story that SEO is not a scam.

28:17Venkata Pagadala: SEO is not changing all text. SEO is not something that anyone can do. You need understanding the research. This is a time to rewrite the books and say, hey, SEO is a strategy of connecting people, organically in any platform, any departments, or it doesn't matter. And I think that's a one reason I started to be public talking as well. And also sharing in YouTube is like, this is a good time to do that. So now with that, like we've hit on kind of a lot of like the ethos of a lot of the research you're doing. We've advocated for like perspective shift on looking at consumer behavior, as well as like some of the like, what motivates you as a professional within our craft.

29:07The piece that I'd like to touch on too is like, with the advances in technology, a lot of this type of research is becoming more and more accessible. Where before it felt like there was like and this is maybe you know going back five years that five to ten year range where it felt like there was a divide in seo of the like extremely technical crowd that was already starting to build their own tools and you know it's like they were dabbling in that space already that was outside of the big box tools and then the more like content leaning yep beyond how where we are competing's changed what you know content is good and things like that i feel like we're also at a point where the tech side of things is more accessible to others for someone that maybe is looking at your research inspired by some of the stuff that you're sharing what advice would you have for others of how they can further lean into the accessibility that we have today that maybe you didn't have 10 years ago early in your career i think the

30:22Venkata Pagadala: first thing is like if you want to build a mock-up if you want to analyze a million queries if you don't know coding you probably it's hard to do that before but because of ai you can you need to understand what you're asking that's the first key ai is like i always say that ai is like an sports car you need to understand where to drive where not to drive so i think that's a one key piece of advice i say that the coding abilities the functionality the functionalities dashboards or mock-ups everything you can do yourself but you need to have a clear understanding understanding of what is the purpose of this product page content you do build anything okay yeah i can build like a fancy car a visual car or like a toy but you need to understand what is this i'm creating with the i faster is it is improving this experience or filling the gap you need to understand the end goal and you also need to understand is this scalable is this uh can be implemented in enterprise-wise?

31:38Venkata Pagadala: Is this something people can use it? Because you can create an AI agent in home and spin off and ask to write XYZ. It can do that. But is that going to be working? Is that something you need to ask? Why does this, what I'm doing, is different from others? What are the extra benefits I'm having here? And why those matters? So you need to clearly understand. I think it's more of not creation anymore. It's more of you need to understand a problem and use AI to solve it. And I think that's something that's like you hear so much lately, but it's like it's one of those like in some ways like core truths where it's like we heard for years follow the user.

32:26It's like everyone said it. Some people followed it. Some people, whatever, it was just like a saying. and I think that last piece that you said too on like leaning into it is like it is a harsh reality that it's like you do have to lean into because the table stakes have raised and if you're not willing to lean into that the challenge of staying relevant is so difficult so it's like everyone's coming in at a different level of familiarity and understanding the more and more you lean into that curiosity not just of what works in search but how to do the work yeah i think like that's again it's the core it's the cornerstone in my mind of our industry that yep if you don't have that internal drive around curiosity it is going to be an uphill

33:17Venkata Pagadala: battle non-stop no i totally agree and and honestly yeah and it's not an easy thing i need to be sure uh it's like before the search is straightforward one-to-one right now we have five five five platforms five split and the thing you have to be really careful about is everyone have access to cloud they can ask your transcript and throw that is this person talking junk is this like all the leadership, they are like brutal talking with some people like vendors or like people who work with, they're going to ask, hey, what you said does not make sense here. So before you spin up something, have a clear control on what you're talking, how are you using, that's a reason.

34:03Venkata Pagadala: That's a one good reason I can say you can do anything with AI, but are you ready to present in front of 10 ,000 people and take a million dollar check? You have to live behind whatever that output is yeah which is kind of an odd paradigm to be in where it's like before so much of the challenge of scale was around like resource re yeah it's like regardless if it's funding if it's actual individuals but it was like who can invest the most into that production or at least be on the mark for what the production is. Now that's kind of like a table stakes where it's like that much more approachable.

34:51But then the bottleneck to me becomes in the sense of quality control.

34:56Venkata Pagadala: Yep. Anyone can create the output. How do you make sure that that output is valuable is where the crux is. And the beauty is you, your co-worker, and your competitor will have so much things. But if you come up with the data and say, hey, this is a unique angle why I'm collecting this data and building a product on top of that. Example, the classic example I'm going to talk probably for next 10 years on this one is like, if you analyze 100 reviews or 10 ,000 reviews or a million reviews and go to your leadership and say, hey, I analyze whole industry reviews and these are the three pain points and this is what I built for a mock-up in order to solve this problem based on existing components of a website and existing content.

35:46Venkata Pagadala: You take a data, you build a mock-up and say, this is what I want to do. Because the storytelling days are gone. It's more about, can I tell the story with the mock-up? I agree with that. Well, I want to be respectful of the time. I feel like I could keep chatting about this for quite some time, but I do want to get to our lightning round. First question I have for you, a lot of uncertainty in the industry right now. Personally, are you calling it SEO, AEO, GEO? Where do you land on what is our industry? I think I'm going to copy your answer. these are the kind of facets I feel. It's more of SEO, AEO, GEO is like platform independent.

36:41Venkata Pagadala: So I feel like search is a core facet. I'm copying exactly from you because I believe they did. So search is a core one. And I'm SEO. I'm going to optimize everything. AEO, GEO, SEO. So it's facets. i mean i guess selfishly i have to like agree with that um but 100 like i'm right there with you it's like yeah we've always been in the craft and i i sometimes like to refer to it as a craft because it's not just skill it's not just experience but you're blending the two some people might lean to calling it an art i'm gonna land on craft in this but it's like it's always been about data retrieval systems and how you stay relevant within them whether it's google whether we're on youtube yeah complexity it doesn't matter the fundamental of our game is the same the boards just we're playing on a different board we're playing chase here we're playing checkers there, but we're still playing all a similar game.

37:49Venkata Pagadala: And I think the very next thing would be like your personal agents will go and do the stuff you're doing right now today. So what we go to call like agent optimization now, like I'll call it search optimization and classify everything and anything. If people fight for those things, I'm going to use both of them and optimize for myself. That actually is a great counter. I could get on board. I don't think we're there as an industry yet, but I could get on board with there being a shift with Agentic because it's like, I don't know, if you go back to the Wayne Gretzky quote of like, don't go where the puck is, go where the puck's going.

38:37well we're always saying user in that sense this could shift the dynamic a little bit but

38:43Venkata Pagadala: time will tell i think the one classic example would be market muse like example facebook launched a market muse people are they launched a paid version today and there's like a lot of personal agents people are using already which means they're going to say hey find a deal of XYZ of a product. Just text me out once it's ready. 100%. 100%. Next one I got for you. So as we mentioned earlier in the podcast, you've been building a fair amount of tools. You've been sharing a lot of your studies. Like what's the most underrated piece in your AI tech stack right now that you're doing for both like tool build out research what do you feel like kind of is overlooked uh i think one people often solve the problem and leave on table but whenever you're solving a problem example the classification is everything i do i solve a problem like a human and build immediately build a system on that so i think kind of a documentation is going to be crucial so using some free tools like obsidian and like notion is a paid tool but anywhere you structure a processing system where ai agents should classify the next time and i think one really the tool which i really like is called whisper flow like humans talk two times faster than typing 1.7x depends on the type rates but usually i talk with my computer so that's if you can save any kind of repetitive work with systems and processes like these it's going to be a massive win in the year 100 and shout out to whisper flow yeah with my my current risks it's it has been quite nice next next one i want to throw at you it's going to sound a little weird late night vibe coding or ga5 man this is going to tough really tough the one game i really like is gta 5 but man vibe coding is paying me off so i'll take the vibe coding it's like enjoying and paying off which i mean that's a big divide there it's a big divide yeah now you have a strong stance in open source you've made a point of making a lot of your research and tools accessible to open community love to hear from your side why why should education be acceptable for all like what is the difference of how you view education and how you view work yeah i think uh let's start with work work is like a business when you get when the businesses get paid in profits and they're using skills of a human time skills in human time in order to achieve a profit where they're going to share some amount of money to an employees so you together work on a project make money share the money that's good but my point of education being open source is because education should never be restricted by money.

42:09Venkata Pagadala: Example, hey, I wish I know this kind of a thing. So because who knows, like a passionate person with less financial resources can do extraordinary things. So I firmly believe that like sharing would not hurt you. Even it improves your knowledge because if you make education public everyone can learn and the right candidate will be hired by business owners so if you're locked by the money you're already filtering it out the talent which you don't know myself too I always go back and think we all fell into this from one place or another and that's one thing that I love about it is it's like we all had to learn from these various free sources YouTube videos, blog articles whatever we could kind of like scrap together and so it's like to me it's like returning that same opportunity and it's also that mindset that we we're operating in an industry that is uprising tide there's not a need for that defensive and that kind of like artificial competition in the sense of like if it like as we continue to rise the tide of the industry they're all boats will rise yeah it's not as simple as that and certainly like it wouldn't be the case that like hey everyone wins but i feel like there is that mindset at least i share that mindset where it's just more of like if we make those contributions in as an industry then it's not just one person prospering.

43:52It's the community as a whole that is in a better place.

43:56Venkata Pagadala: Yeah, 100%. I think I can say one thing. If someone is really passionate, he will make it happen. I want to support the people by open sourcing what I do because I'm not going to be forever like best SEO. I'm not best SEO. I'm just saying I'm not going to be here forever. What's after 60 is like passing the knowledge. I'm not going to give my money back. What I can give is the knowledge at scale. It's been a pleasure to have you on the podcast. I know this one's been a long time coming where we've been discussing having you come on. So thank you for finally accepting the invitation coming on the podcast.

44:33But that's going to wrap up this episode of The Voice of Search. Thanks for listening to my conversation with Venketa, AI product manager for Search at AT &T. if you'd like to get in touch with Vanketa and get a little bit more of these free research articles, tools that he's been producing. Be sure to check them out on LinkedIn or check out his company's website in the show notes. And if you haven't subscribed yet and you want a daily stream of search, throw in GEO, AEO, whatever name you want in your podcast feed or YouTube, hit that subscribe button and we'll be back in the following days. That's all for today.

45:14Thanks for stopping by and we'll see you in the next episode.