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28:11And so that's something that we're really concerned about. But as a sort of cost of living pressure as well, we're also concerned about the repayment rates of 9 % above the threshold, something that means a lot of money coming out of your pocket at a time where, as previous people have said, there are real concerns about young people being able to put down a mortgage, start a family. And these are things that are getting in the way of that. So there are real concerns that so many young people have raised. You've had 52 ,000 people respond to the select committee's call for evidence. And I really hope we see some steps taken to mitigate some of these concerns.

28:46Alex, do you think there are too many courses too many universities maybe that have all been scrambling to try and you know get the cash in for this that has you know ended up people many more people feeling like many years after they've graduated wondering if that was worth it or not well i don't think i don't think it's as i don't think it's as straightforward as as that at all and i i think it is it's fantastic that the opportunity to go to university has expanded in recent years. I think it's become a real tool for social mobility that hasn't necessarily been for previous generations. But it is a real concern that that conversation about value for money has started creeping into this debate.

29:32And I think that's only going to... Has it overall, do you think, sorry to interrupt you, but has it overall been a benefit for social mobility overall when you hear so many now saying this is holding me back from what I want to achieve this student loan? Well I think it is the graduate premium still exists many many many professions require a require a degree for you to then move into but I think it is really important that we listen to the concerns of of those who say that it hasn't necessarily been worth it or that they are really concerned about that debt because that the average debt for a graduate is now 53 000 pounds and there is no avoiding the fact that that is quite the burden and particularly for for working class students who we hear are more debt-averse that is something that is a real concern that comes up time and time again and so there is a real challenge both to sector and government to prove the worth of those degrees if young people are going to continue to have confidence in the system and what you know the government has said you recognize a lot of this it's attempted to make some changes there's a lot of conversation going on clearly at the moment just saying it you know the finance system does protect lower earning graduates with repayments linked to income any outstanding balances and interest written off at the end of the repayment terms well that's that that's at the end of 30 years and once you've been through the pretty brutal uh interest rates that until very recently were up by rpi plus three percent have now been capped at six percent and in terms of low income earners, I think that's one of the areas where we are particularly concerned about the repayment thresholds, because one of the real benefits of the system in the first place is that you did have that breathing space once you'd graduated to find your feet in the job markets, find your feet in your life post-university.

31:21And that is being taken away from so many young people with the freezers to the thresholds. It's going to mean that people in a lot of sort of public sector roles like nurses, like teachers, like junior doctors will now will now be paying almost immediately back into back into the pot. And that isn't providing them with any sort of relief. And if anything, it's a punishment for having the ambition to go to university. Alex, thank you for your time this morning. Alex Stanley there from the National Union of Students. Thank you for your messages as well. Keith saying good morning regarding student loans.

31:53I feel the loan should be interest free saying that these days. I would not advise. I would advise not to go to university, get an apprenticeship or study at home using the Open University. Let us know your thoughts, 85058.

32:27revenue, well, that's a not-so-great conversation with the CFO. LinkedIn has a word for that. Bull spend. Now you can invest in what looks good to your CFO. LinkedIn ads generates the highest ROAS of all major ad networks. You'll reach the right buyers because you can target by company, industry, job title, and more. So cut the bull spend. Advertise on LinkedIn, the network that works for you. Spend$250 on your first campaign on LinkedIn ads and get a 250 credit for the next one. Just go to linkedin.com slash broadcast. That's linkedin.com slash broadcast. Terms and conditions apply. Enjoy the sunshine with sales on grill-ready favorites from Whole Foods Market.

33:15Take cookouts to sizzling new heights with their marinated salmon and made-in-house marinated beef and chicken. entertain with low-priced 365 brand chips and dips like hummus and guacamole and sweeten every party with brown butter chocolate chip cookies remember to pack the cooler with probiotic sodas sparkling waters and more summer savings await you at whole foods market wake up to money with sean farrington so amazing to hear starts next week isn't it for the men's world cup hearing could listen to those trailers all day won't be long of course till we bring you the action on Five Live. Plenty of it.

33:54Plenty of talk around this time in the morning as well. So just as ever, no need to sleep. Just keep Five Live on 24-7 and we'll bring you all of the action, all of the analysis throughout the day. Thank you for your messages about all we're discussing. I'll tell you what, Will. Will Walker-Arna is with us this morning, Director of Private Clients for Raymond James. If you get in touch with some thoughts on SpaceX. So this is Elon Musk's space company, artificial intelligence company, as well as we were hearing a little bit earlier. It's going to be listing on stock markets. There's going to be an opportunity for people to get involved, as they always can when they list on stock markets, but an opportunity to get involved right at the start.

34:38So it's getting a lot of headlines because of that. And we were discussing earlier what that all means. So if you missed that, go and subscribe to Wake Up To Money on BBC Sounds and have a good old listen to the why's and the wherefores around what this SpaceX listing and ability to invest in it is really all about. And so some people get in touch. Gavin in Manchester, Will, says, and this sort of feels a bit sort of a gloomy perspective, but I'm going to read the message because I sort of get what he means by it. He says, good morning. My worry with the SpaceX stock is the lifespan of Elon Musk.

35:13I don't mean bad actors. I just mean in general, if he gets an illness or has an accident or something, where does the stock go and the company? Ties in a bit, Will, with what you were saying about some investor concerns about the power that Elon Musk has. And is this really all about him or is it the business? I think that's definitely something you need to consider because he does have this army of retail investors who will support whatever he's going to do. And it creates a lot of hype and a mystique around him. And, you know, there is key founder risk there and key man risk. And you don't really want to be underwriting that key man risk in a company.

35:51So I think it's a great point and something people should be considering. And then another one, Steve has been in touch saying, please can you reiterate the concept of fiduciary duty? He's given Musk's record of seeming contempt for investors. What might Steve mean by that? again it's I suppose making sure that he's not just putting his interests ahead of those of the shareholders who are going to be providing capital into into the business so it's it's it's you know creating a sort of balanced view of of all the shareholders and not promoting one over the others 85058 send in your questions why we've got experts like will on investment jane running businesses jane somerville who's the boss of bowers and jones in bilston in the midlands providing services to the metal forming industry.

36:4285058, do keep your thoughts coming in. Let's have a look again at another part of the water industry. Now, yesterday we spoke with a hotel that faced difficulties due to a lack of water in Whitstable. Thousands of properties hit by water outages in the area served by South East Water last week. We're going to talk about South West Water today. They've just been fined£1.8 million after admitting to supplying water unfit for human consumption. So this is linked to an outbreak of, now give me a moment, cryptosporidiosis in Devon in May 2024. It doesn't sound good, does it? Our correspondent Jenny Kumar was in Exeter Magistrates Court yesterday.

37:22There's still widespread anger in the community about Southwest Water's handling of the outbreak. For days in May 2024, social media was awash with reports of people feeling ill and blaming the tap water. When the company first responded, it said the water was safe. A day later, it told residents of 16 ,000 properties that they needed to boil their water before consuming it, saying continued monitoring had found traces of the parasite in the supply. Exeter Magistrates Court heard that the likely main source of the outbreak was cattle faeces, entering the supply via a damaged air valve on a pipe in a nearby farm.

38:02The drinking water inspectorate, who are the industry watchdog, said the company had failed to inspect air valves across its system, despite warnings that they presented a risk. The company said it accepted responsibility and that it pleaded guilty at the first opportunity to supplying water unfit for human consumption. It said the fine would come from profit and shareholder dividends and not be passed on through customers' bills. Jane, I know you're very much not South Westwater or South Eastwater in the Midlands, but just hearing the stories that households and businesses will be going through because of their water supply, how crucial is it, the trust that you have with that utility provider?

38:47So it's very important. You want to be making sure that you're providing water that's safe for your employees to drink when they're at work. So it's immensely important that these companies provide a decent service. And I do think that the privatisation of these companies was not the right thing to do. I mean, they're a monopoly. You don't have a choice of where you buy your water from. And it seems as if the companies are prioritising profits over quality of service. Well, we'll get into that in a moment because we've got an investor in water companies coming up shortly. Before we do hear that, let's have a short explanation of how water provision works in the UK, how South West Water fits into that as well.

39:37Wake up to one of these Josh Corber-Hoffman. How does water work in the UK? Well, water is a devolved matter, meaning that each of the four nations has a different system. In England and Wales, water is managed by 16 companies. Most of them are monopoly suppliers, meaning that consumers have no choice but to use them. At the moment, companies are regulated by Ofwat, the economic regulator, as well as the Drinking Water Inspectorate and the Environment Agency. But a government white paper published at the beginning of the year said that these will be combined into a single entity. South West Water supplies drinking water to Devon, Cornwall and parts of Somerset and Dorset.

40:14It is owned by Pennan Group, a British water company that is listed on the London Stock exchange. Southwest Water came under fire last year for increasing prices for consumers by a third, despite releasing sewage for more hours than any other water company in England and Wales in 2024, more than half a million hours in total. Thank you to Josh for that. We've got Jim Wright with us, manager of the Premier Might and Global Infrastructure Income Fund, so invests in things like the British water supplier 7Trent. Jim's been invested in water stocks for 25 years now. So, Jim, good morning. Just your reaction to the run of stories like we're covering on Wake Up To Money for the water industry and these companies.

40:59Morning. Yeah, so, I mean, clearly these behaviours are unacceptable. And I think what you've got to reflect on is how you fix the problem. And the only way you fix the problem is more investment. So when you hear those comments that we heard before about this fine coming out of dividends and profits and not going to be impacting bills, how do you figure out that that is actually what is happening there? And the companies like Penn & Group, the owner of Southwest Water, are actually doing that and not taking it out of investment or pushing for any future increase in bills because of it. Yeah, I mean, that's a good question.

41:47And obviously, you want to be absolutely sure of that. The point is that water companies are mandated by the regulator and will be mandated by the new and hopefully better regulator to invest certain amounts and charge certain amounts. So, you know, it is controlled. It is controlled by the regulator, both what they can invest and what they can charge. And when you hear Jane's point that questioning whether privatisation of these businesses in this industry is really the best way for it to be, do you, even though you've been investing in these private companies for so long now, do you see sympathy with that argument that maybe it hasn't been working for the people who need this water?

42:37and the sewage infrastructure and everything around it. Yeah, no, I mean 100 % sympathetic with that. Clearly there's been lots of egregious examples where water companies have kind of broken their social contract. But again, the point I would make is that this is a failure of – it's not a failure of privatization. It's a failure of regulation. With a better, stronger regulator, you can get better behaviors and you can make sure you get better behaviours. But it comes back to the point that we've got a water system that desperately needs investment, hasn't reacted to a lot of the new build that we've seen, a lot of the mains in big towns and cities haven't been replaced for a century.

43:27And so it's whether you'd be able to get that investment on the government balance sheet versus being able to get it from private investors who are actually, you know, private investors are actually very keen to invest in the UK water sector. And it's not because they can, you know, they can strip vast amounts of unfair dividends out. It's because it's, you know, it's a good place to invest. Is there an example anywhere where stronger, better regulation of water companies that are privatized works and people get a really good supply? There aren't the level of grumbles and complaints that we have here.

44:05There aren't a level of questions about where is this money actually flowing? I think, I mean, what I would say is the UK is unique in having a totally privatized water system. But if you look at, say, look at something like United Utilities, and about three weeks ago, they, the owner of Northwest Water, They announced an additional£2.5 billion of investment that would go into helping new housing, rebuilding the infrastructure, facilitating things like data centres, economic growth. That's partly funded by£800 million of money raised from shareholders. And this is all happening in Andy Burnham's backyard.

44:52This is the same regulator, though. Yeah, well, so the regulator will change. The regulator is going to change. There's going to be a strong, I mean, at the moment, as Josh's piece said, there's three different regulators and there's also DEFRA, the government, the ministry. You know, the regulator will change. The government is going to change the regulator, put a new, more powerful regulator in. and there will be, the hope is, the hope and it is hope, that there will be more effective regulation. But there is investment coming into the sector. There is private investment coming into the sector which will improve things.

45:29But every time we go around the cycle, are people just going to be asked for ever higher bills, to pay ever higher bills, to encourage this investment to come in? And would it not just, you know, be easier, as sort of James put it, to just have that all under the watch of the government, given the levels of issues that we're talking about? Yeah, I mean, it comes down to a philosophical question and also a practical fiduciary question of whether you can afford to both buy out the existing investors and make that new investment on the government balance sheet when there's so many other pressures on the government right now for capital.

46:14And so, you know, I mean, you're absolutely right. People will be asked to pay more. But if, you know, that's the social contract, if you pay more but get a better service and, you know, those payments are set by a powerful regulator who enforces, you know, enforces that social contract who looks after all stakeholders, then, you know, that's the system that was originally designed but, you know, hasn't particularly worked so far. Jim, thank you for your time this morning. Jim Wright, manager of the Premier Might and Global Infrastructure Income Fund, investor in water companies. I noticed Jim said fiduciary there and I said fiduciary earlier and I'm just trying to think what it is they say in Mary Poppins when they're singing about that bank in there.

46:57I'll have to dig that out for another day. Do let me know which way around it should be. I'm always open to being corrected on my pronunciations. Kieran getting in touch, water privatisation, been an unmitigated disaster. to nationalise now because infrastructure is what we pay taxes for. Back to basics, says Kieran. Let me know your thoughts on that. Shall we talk about another big Chinese electric car company? If asked you to name an ambitious business, made its name, building electric cars, now expanded its focus to including self-driving taxis, humanoid robots as well, you might very well say, oh, are you talking about Tesla?

47:38which, maybe no coincidence, is another one of Elon Musk's big companies that isn't part of SpaceX, but that is a conversation for another day. We're not talking about Tesla, though. I'm talking about the Chinese company, Xpeng. So, like other Chinese car makers like BYD, Cherry as well, it's managed to survive in the cutthroat competition of China's domestic market and now expanding abroad. X-Peng President Brian Gu has been speaking to our correspondent Theo Leggett about, well, no doubt about plenty in the world of cars and beyond, Theo. Good morning to you. And X-Peng, not a brand we will have noticed on the backs or fronts of cars around the UK at the moment.

48:23Morning, Sean. It's not a household name yet, but they have big plans for that. So just to tell you a little bit more about X-Peng, because it isn't a well-known name at the moment. It's a company that's based in Guangzhou in southern China. So it's part of that massive industrial complex in that part of the country. It was founded 12 years ago, so it's still a young company. But it is now one of the country's biggest EV makers. And as you said, it's come up through the Chinese domestic market, which is famed for absolutely cutthroat competition. So any company that can survive that is pretty lean and mean.

49:01And now, like other Chinese car companies, the domestic market is difficult. So it's got excess capacity. It's expanding internationally. And it launched in the UK last year. But unlike the likes of BYD or Cherry, which owns a motor and Jaiku, it isn't going all in for the mass market, pumping out models, trying to get people buying those cars and get its brand out on the street. It only has one model in the UK at the moment. That's the G6. Prices start about 40 ,000. What it's really doing is trying to build a following for its technology and get people looking at these cars because they have a bit of prestige.

49:41They're a little bit different. And while it's doing all of this, I mean, it's sold about 1 ,000 cars in the UK so far. So, you know, sales have not been rapid, but they have been building up. They have been accelerating. But back in China, the company's been transforming itself in a very Tesla-esque way. So it's pivoting away from being just a car business. It's begun mass-producing self-driving taxis for the Chinese market. It's also developing humanoid robots. And it's building, Sean, what it calls a modular flying car, which to me looks more like a van with a big drone in the back, which can be sort of automatically offloaded and flown and then puts it away again.

50:19I've been promised to test drive in one of those, but I would have to go to China to do it. But this is the direction the company is going in. So is it a car company? or a tech company? Where's it going with all of this? Well, I met up with Xpeng's president, Brian Gu, who's in London at the moment. And I asked him, what kind of a company is this now? We have seen a tremendous transformation in automobile industry from traditional automobile to electrified automobile. And now increasingly, with the power of AI, we feel like we're moving towards autonomous, smart, AI-powered vehicles. And the same thing will happen interrupting other segments, in the flying area, the drones, the flying cars, I would say, is also another form of physical AI, as well as human robots.

51:08We think actually human robots could represent an even bigger opportunity than the whole automotive industry. But it is expensive. How do you make it profitable? Right now, if you look at our automotive sector, our EV business as a whole is actually already profitable. And we are investing that into the physical AI development for the future. And also, some of these future industries are not that far away. For example, the flying car. We actually aim to get our flying car certified in China this year to be launched to end customers by the end of this year. So it will be a commercial reality. The technology may not be far away, but your own research has shown that people in Europe, at least consumers in Europe, aren't ready for it.

51:52They're nervous about this technology. How do you get around that? Our research has found that customers in China and potentially in the US are a lot more ready to embrace new technology, for example, using AI in their work, in their lives, whereas, you know, customers in Europe or, you know, some other regions are a little bit, I would say, more cautious, have attitude towards AI. So we need to make sure that when we launch a product we have enough adequate customer education and also to really help them through that transition. And I think it requires a number of things to do right. One is we need to make sure the product is felt safe.

52:33That's why we spend a lot of focus to ensure the make of our autonomous driving vehicles, maybe in the future of humanoid robots. When the use case is generated, you will first focus on safety. That's the first level of trust you need to build. It's easy to see how things like robo-taxis could be integrated into everyday life. But humanoid robots, what's actually the point? Today, you have robots can do specific jobs. You have a cleaning robot at home on your floor. You have an industrial robot that can do mechanical arms. There are robots that can dance and flip based on the pre-programmed sequences.

53:13But the most useful robot is something that actually can function fully in a human environment, in a human world. Imagine the whole city of London for the last thousand years is built around human. The size of the entrance, the steps, the table, the things that you need to do is all based on human measures. So focus on a human robot that can actually have the human-like size, posture, movement is the most useful to be operating in a human environment. But you're talking about acceptance of AI. If humanoid robots are coming in and taking over from humans, what are all the humans going to do? I mean, that's what people are afraid of, isn't it?

53:57I would say that advancement in technology, introduction with something more productive and useful will lead to many more opportunities. There'll be new jobs that'll be created by AI. There'll be new opportunities and much more productive opportunities that's opened by the AI. So we can do a lot more. So I would say it's actually not a threat. It's actually more opportunities. So that was the president of Xpeng, Brian Gu, having a chat with Theo Leggett, a correspondent there. Thanks for that, Theo. Fascinating stuff. Will, I mean, whether we're talking about SpaceX or Tesla or Xpeng, these big companies wanting to do it all, aren't they?

54:37They are. I was actually thinking while I was listening to that about the effect on inflation, because inflation is on everyone's mind at the moment of what's going on in the Middle East. But I think the effect of AI and robots will hopefully have that dampening effect on inflation as we finally get round to increasing productivity in the UK. Very interesting. That tees us up with another thing to discuss on another show at some point. Well, thank you very much for your time this morning. Been enjoying talking to you, Will Walker, aren't it? From Raymond James and big thanks as well to Jane Somerville, who's been with us this morning, managing director and owner of Bowers & Jones in the Midlands, that metal forming industry that she provides services to.

55:17And thank you for all of your messages about investing and beyond. That is it from Wake Up To Money this morning. Wake Up To Money from BBC Five Live. That's it from Wake Up To Money. You can download the podcast every Monday to Friday, so please make sure you subscribe. We'd also love it if you left us a review when you do. Get in touch. Keep the conversation going any time as well on social media. Use the hashtag WakeUpToMoney.

56:00Overhead kick. That is sensational. He serves to the centre. And that will do it. Oh, the right hand. And the former champion is down. It's an extraordinary start. They've done a show for us tonight. He gets on his knees and kisses the turf. Five Live Sports. The home of the world's greatest sporting events. This is the full time window. Listen on BBC Sounds.

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1:02:23Ever invest in something that seemed incredible at first, but didn't live up to the hype? Like those$5 roses at a gas station, or a second-hand piece of technology that breaks in the first 10 minutes. Marketers know that feeling. We optimize for the numbers that look great, impressions, reach, and reacts. But when they don't show revenue, well, that's a not-so-great conversation with the CFO. LinkedIn has a word for that. Bull spend. Now you can invest in what looks good to your CFO. LinkedIn ads generates the highest ROAS of all major ad networks. You'll reach the right buyers because you can target by company, industry, job title, and more.

1:03:07So cut the bull spend. Advertise on LinkedIn, the network that works for you. Spend$250 on your first campaign on LinkedIn ads and get a 250 credit for the next one. Just go to linkedin.com slash broadcast. That's linkedin.com slash broadcast. Terms and conditions apply.