Bringing down barriers

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0:51Hello, welcome. It is Wake Up To Money. A question today, getting closer to the EU. Should the UK be doing that? At least the bit that's spending big on defence. should we be taking an opportunity for defence companies here to share in a£130 billion security fund across the continent. We'll have a look at the detail of that. We'll look at how the UK grew last year and where. And more than 20 years after it left the West End, a new production of Billy Elliot set to tour the country from later this year. We'll find out why shows like this are so important for theatre outside of the capital. Wake Up To Money with Sean Farrington.

1:28Got Rachel Carroll with me on the show today, chief executive of Coru Kids, which is a childcare service, helps families find and hire nannies. Morning to you, Rachel. Hi there, morning. Morning. And Micah Currie as well is with us, head of personal finance for the digital pension consolidation firm PensionBee. Hi, Micah. Hi, Sean. Lots to get through both of you. Let's start with the comments from the British businessman Sir Jim Ratcliffe that is making headlines over many of the papers this morning. The Prime Minister has responded as well. So this is, Sir Keir Starmer has been labelling the comments about immigration that have been made by the billionaire Manchester United co-owner Sir Jim Ratcliffe.

2:13He's labelled them as offensive and wrong. He's called for him to apologise. Now, Sir Jim Ratcliffe co-owns Manchester United. He's also founder of one of the world's biggest chemical companies as well, INEOS. He was speaking to Sky News yesterday. He had this to say. You can't have an economy with 9 million people on benefits. Huge levels of immigrants coming in. I mean, the UK is being colonised. The UK is being colonised by immigrants really, isn't it? Now, alongside that, Sir Jim Ratcliffe was saying that the population of the UK was 58 million in 2020. Now it's 70 million, 12 million people, he said.

2:51The Office for National Statistics, when we look at the official numbers, say that the population of the UK in the medal of last year was 69.4 million, compared in the middle of 2020 with 66.7 million. So some of the numbers he laid out in that interview alongside those comments are not correct. There's been reaction from many, initially from those supporters clubs of Manchester United. The Manchester United Muslim Supporters Club said it was deeply concerned by the remarks echoing language, it says, frequently used in far-right narratives that frame migrants as invaders and demographic threats.

3:29And another group of Manchester United supporters that haven't been too happy with various owners of Manchester United in recent years. The 1958 group described the comments as very ill-advised, criticised Sir Jim for commenting on the issues of our country while living in Monaco to avoid paying tax. Rachel, when you hear those comments from one of Britain's most successful business people, one of our richest business people as well, from Sir Jim Ratcliffe, what's your reaction this morning? Well, I'm from New Zealand, which is a place that was colonised, and it was my ancestors who did it. So I hear about the idea that Britain's been colonised.

4:08It's just a silly word to use. It's not accurate. it's not accurate in terms of the numbers of population for a start. I also hear it as an immigrant you know I came here in 2002 as an immigrant and I'm really grateful and delighted to be here. I love England, I love English people and since I've been here I've started a business, I've created you know so many jobs, created hundreds and hundreds of jobs within my team, I've created thousands of nanny jobs. So I think that immigrant that I don't recognize the immigrant narrative that he's talking about for a start. But then also the focus on I think that language of division and hate, I think, is just it's not it's not the England I want to be part of myself.

4:57It's not it's not what I love about England. I think it's creating this idea of a scapegoat and the idea that we can kind of blame our problems on immigrants, whether they're immigrants on benefits or immigrants that start companies. I think it's a diversionary tactic away from the real problems of inequality that we have in the country. Yes, Jim Ratcliffe also talking about what type of prime minister we need. I think you need somebody, he says, who's prepared to be unpopular for a period of time to get the big issues sorted out. Nigel Farage, leader of Reform UK, responded to the Prime Minister's condemnation of the comments.

5:38He said Britain has undergone unprecedented mass immigration that's changed the character of many areas in our country. Labour may try to ignore that, but reform won't. It's a conversation issue, Rachel. It seemed to you that Sir Jim Ratcliffe getting headlines this morning, that the conversation topic for politicians, for those leaders, it's not going to go away, is it? No, it's not going to go away. I think we do need to have a conversation about immigration, but I think the tone in which we need to have it is not this one. My cap, one aspect that is brought to the front by the sort of fact-checking that has gone on on the back of this interview when we hear Sir Jim Ratcliffe's comments, but then he talks about numbers that don't actually tally when you see what the official data is from the Office for National Statistics.

6:35Those things, do you find on an issue like this, can you turn to those statistics and do you draw conclusions yourself from what has gone on with immigration as an example? Well, yes, I would turn to the Office for National Statistics because there you will get the accurate numbers. And I think it's really dangerous to just throw numbers about that are not based in facts. And also to use that type of language around colonialised, the country being colonialised and colonialism because it's deeply offensive for countries and people who've suffered as a result of that. What is missing here is that the UK is a country with an aging population and we need immigration to fuel growth, to do the jobs, to look after the demographic dividend.

7:27So I would base it in facts and I would caution against language like that because it fuels hatred and immigration can be a really positive thing for a country in terms of economic growth. Countries that have managed immigration well have seen massive benefits in terms of growth in their economy. 85058, if you'd like to join in our conversation on that this morning, your thoughts, please, plenty for us to get through. We're going to get official, talking about numbers from the Office for National Statistics, we're going to get numbers about how the economy was growing through 2025 a little bit later this morning.

8:05Micah, what are you expecting to see there? Not a lot of buoyant growth, and it's a theme that's come through constantly on this program is there was so much uncertainty in the run-up to that budget in November, and that has really weighed on UK economic growth. So there's expectation that it might surprise slightly, but we're looking at a figure of around 0.1 % growth. There are bigger factors at play. The big factors being concerns around tariffs that's not going away and global uncertainties. And that, of course, is weighing on the UK too. And then we're not expecting to see a lot of private sector investment at the moment.

8:47But if we do see interest rates fall over the coming year, that would reduce the cost of financing in the year. And that will support businesses possibly spending a bit more as we go into next year. And then we can get that stability and we can start long-term planning and decision making. And for you, Rachel, as you reflect on running a business in 2025, how would you describe your attempts, efforts? I don't know whether there were successes of growth in that period. Well, we saw growth really accelerate in Q4 last year, actually, and that has continued into January, which is really nice. So Coro Kids is a service providing part-time nannies, and we are seeing record numbers right now of families hiring through our platform.

9:34And that means that parents are themselves feeling confident about their own jobs. They're getting childcare sorted to support it. And we're actually seeing even more growth on the job seeker side. So 27 ,000 people applied to be a Coro Kids nanny in Q4, and that was up from 23 ,000 the previous year, Q4. So for us, that was a growth of 17%. And are you able to figure out, Rachel, how much of that, of course, is you running a business the way you want it to be run and you're seeing rewards for how you're running the business, but also changes in confidence? When you talk about people feeling more stable in their jobs and therefore feeling like they're able to build a childcare infrastructure around that where they can afford it, is that because of the jobs market as well?

10:22Or do you see certain aspects of the economy working there? It's always hard to disentangle these things. And we have lots of great projects and new launches and things, which kind of create some noise in the system, trying to figure out what exactly causes what. But because we are quite big, you know, 27 ,000 people applying to be a Cory Kids nanny is quite big. We do often see those macro trends in our own figures. So over the years, we've been going almost 10 years now. And over the years, you know, you can see when the national insurance changes, for example, you can see that in our numbers.

11:01Certainly lots of things on the family side, you can see when kind of confidence comes and goes. So I would be feeling cautiously optimistic about what that means. Hi, I'm Frances Fry. And I'm Anne Morris. And we are the hosts of a new TED podcast called Fixable. We've helped leaders at some of the world's most competitive companies solve all kinds of problems. On our show, we'll pull back the curtain and give you the type of honest, unfiltered advice we usually reserve for top executives. Maybe you have a co-worker with boundary issues. Or you want to know how to inspire and motivate your team.

11:40No problem is too big or too small. Give us a call and we'll help you solve the problems you're stuck on. Find Fixable wherever you listen to podcasts.

11:5485058, could we see more UK-EU cooperation in the defence industry? Do get in touch on that number if you want to join in on this topic. Last night, Chancellor Rachel Reeves talked about breaking down barriers between the UK and Europe. On defence, we want to greater integrate supply chains, not damage them by taking a sort of inward looking approach. And I don't think any chancellor actually believes that we are getting the value for money that we should from that spending. So things like interoperability, joint procurement, not every country in Europe having different specifications when they're buying a helicopter or a ship or a tank.

12:38Now, alongside that, we've also heard the Prime Minister talking recently about the UK considering re-entering talks on the Security Action for Europe fund. So accessing some of that£130 billion defence scheme abbreviated to SAFE, the SAFE fund. I've got Kevin Craven with me, who's Chief Executive of ADS, the Trade Association for the UK's Aerospace Defence Security and Space Industries. Kevin, morning. Good morning, Sean. Where do you place that on the list of priorities, being part of that fund and being able to access more of that fund, be more closely aligned with the European Union to do that?

13:18So pretty high, Sean, I think is the answer. When the negotiations for formal entry into the fund broke down in November last year, we were disappointed. It's 150 billion euros, so significant part. And at the moment, we are limited to what's called third party, third country access to it, which means a maximum share of 35 percent of any given project and some very severe IP limitations, intellectual property limitations. So it's an important fund. It is not the only route to industrial cooperation with Europe, and there are a number of other joint programs happening. But formal agreement with the EU following the Defence and Security Pact last year in May is pretty essential for our joint defence of Europe.

14:15And what was the main reason for talks to break down then? Because, you know, what you've laid out there, businesses in the UK or businesses that have a part of their setup in the UK, being able to access funding, people might be able to hear the positives of that. But of course, you know, are there costs to entering this that some might consider to be too high? I see reports there might be an entry fee of a couple of billion euros to be part of this. Actually, six billion was the price tag put initially on entry. And I know the UK's ambition was for something in the low order of hundreds of millions.

15:00So there was a very large gap, which I think they got closer to, but did not finalize an agreement. And the PM and others have now signalled they're seeking alternative entry routes into those discussions. But we haven't seen anything concrete yet. What might that be?

15:25Kevin, what kind of alternative entry routes could there be if it's not paying a running fee around that level? um so so look i mean there are joint industrial programs already happening bilaterally and in multilaterally so things like the gcat global combat air program with italy and japan the european sky shield initiative so these are encouraging signs of things and there are european countries buying UK capabilities, such as the frigates for Norway and other things. But without that formal top-level agreement with the EU, we can't get to things that might harmonise and make trade and cooperation simpler, like zero-tariff barriers and harmonised regulations on component parts, etc, etc.

16:29So there is an important thing around formalising those relationships that would improve dramatically our ability to trade with Europe. Kevin, thank you for your time this morning. Kevin Craven there, Chief Executive of that Trade Association for Aerospace and Defence, the ADS. Rachel, Micah, I wanted to ask you both about AI, unsurprisingly. Micah, just first off, every morning we wake up and there's some tool been launched by an AI business somewhere that has given investors the wobble, investors the wobbles in various industries this morning. Financial Times, the biggest wealth managers take a beating in latest round of disruption from AI.

17:11So there's an investment tool that has been launched by, again, an American company that many might not have heard of. And the ripple effect is an investment business like St. James' Place, the UK's biggest wealth group, saw its share price down more than 13 % yesterday. Yes, it's very interesting because what we've seen up until now is investors have been focused on what the upside is of AI. Who are going to be the big winners? What are the big productivity gains? But now there's a massive shift and a far more nuanced approach. And what we are seeing is investors are weighing up the costs of AI, of new tools coming on the market.

17:51And could these mean that some businesses become potentially redundant? And as you say, we've seen them dump shares both in the UK and the US in these traditional financial services groups that you would typically go to to find an advisor's guidance on wealth management and tax strategies. Now, do we think that wealth management is a redundant business model? Well, absolutely not. We saw this about 10 years ago with RoboAdvice, where the idea was that you would get your advice or your investment decisions by just simply typing in a few details. And actually people wanted that human interaction, especially when it came to more complex decisions.

18:32Like if you're on the cusp of retirement, how do you draw down your pension pot so that you don't run out of money? The thorny issue of inheritance tax, which can be hugely complicated and how you pass on wealth to the next generation. And there people really do want to see the whites of someone's eyes. So we've seen quite a pronounced reaction. Is it an overreaction? Potentially. But it does show you that the market and investors are worried about AI disrupting these industries. Rachel, how would you describe, whether it's colleagues or teams that you work with behind the IT infrastructure that you have in your childcare business, when they see these tools being launched?

19:14Well, my tech team, I have a tech team of about four or five engineers. They have never been so energised in 10 years as they are right now. They are so productive. They are super happy. Some of them are kind of dour, sceptical individuals. And right now it's like they have been given superpowers. They are off the charts productive. of their work has been totally transformed. They're feeling like their grunt work is gone. One of the things I think is really interesting, I mean, it's exciting for us because it means we can do so much more in such a small amount of time from that team. One of the things I think is very interesting is the AI houses like Anthropic and OpenAI, they've really focused on coding first.

19:59And the reason they've done that is because they wanted the AI to be, the next generations of the AI to be able to code itself. So it's strategic for them to focus on coding first. But they're now moving on to other things. And I think there's no reason to think that they won't be doing for other things what they've done for coding. And there is an upside, you know, from personal perspective. What I mean is as humans, there's an upside and a downside. So the downside is, of course, the impact on jobs, which I think is going to be absolutely immense. I think it's going to be a tsunami from what I'm seeing.

20:34But the upside for those who use it is it seems, from looking at my tech team, it seems to be a very happy experience. In literally 20 seconds, because we've got something else to talk about, when you say about that downside, that tsunami, where are you seeing that? We ourselves have cut back a lot on matching families with nannies, which is something, believe it or not, we used to do. Humans used to find you the right nanny, the exact right nanny. and I used to have a room of 50 people five years ago doing that and we just don't have that room of 50 people anymore. Very interesting. Great to get this insight.

21:13That's why we have Rachel and Micah and the likes on Wake Up To Money each morning. Right, have you been to the theatre recently? Whether to the West End, local playhouse, certain classics set to return. Flying like a bird, electricity, electricity.

21:36Ten years after it left London's West End, a new production of Billy Elliot, set to tour the country from later this year, kicking off in Sunderland, going to visit Manchester and Edinburgh. Then we'll head back to the West End. Annabelle Turpin is the Arts Council England's North Area Chair, co-director of Future Arts Centre's Chief Executive of Storyhouse as well, Theatre in Cheshire. Annabelle, morning to you. What does this tell us, this return after ten years? Good morning, Sean. I mean, it's so exciting to see what was such a hit show come back. And I think what's brilliant about this is that obviously it's set in the northeast and that's often a very forgotten part of the country.

22:13I worked there for 15 years and a production like this kind of recognizes the people and the places in that area. And it's a kind of validation, I suppose, an acknowledgement that there's a story to tell from that place. So I think it's a massive boost, not just the kind of theatre in general, but actually for people's pride in that area. And obviously there'll be economic benefits too, not just from the show, but actually, you know, it'll open in Sunderland. But in terms of cultural tourism, because people want to visit places they've heard about in shows or kind of on screen. Yeah, and people may well be familiar with the backstory of Billy Elliot.

22:48In fact, the regional story, the regional production behind it all. Has that been repeated over the years? Have you seen other successes like that? I mean, potential international phenomenons? Yeah, I mean, there's not been many. Matilda was developed by the RSC, which premiered in Stratford, and six started at the Edinburgh Fringe. Woman in Black began in Scarborough. But there aren't that many that have started outside London. But part of the reason for that is obviously not all shows will go on to achieve quite such levels of success, and they need a huge amount of investment. But I think one of the things we're seeing at the moment is a lot of the R &D, the kind of talent development from scriptwriters through to actors and directors, that happens within the subsidised sector where there's kind of public money to support that upfront investment.

23:38And the financial squeeze on theatres is so huge at the moment that there's less opportunity to invest in shows that might go on to become the next Billy Elliot or War Horse. And where are the solutions going to be coming from to sort of counter that? Yeah, I think, I mean, financially, the ticket prices are just not keeping pace with the costs and that's become really evident. So the British Theatre Consortium report showed that whilst audiences are up 6.8 % since COVID, ticket prices experienced a real term's drop between 2019 and 23. So even when you adjust for inflation, about 8 % cheaper.

24:17Should we be expecting them to go up more in the coming years? then do you think? It's really hard because nobody wants to price audiences out of their kind of theatre or their show but the reality is that costs have gone up so much we really need to find ways of enabling people that can afford to pay more to really value that live experience and all of the work that goes into producing that show whilst obviously finding targeted ways of enabling people that can't afford to go as well. Annabelle thank you I'm sure lots of people will have that on their shortlist now to see if it comes near them soon.

24:51Annabel Turpin, the Arts Council, England North Area Chair. Thanks to everybody who's been in touch. Big thanks to Rachel and Micah. That's it from Wake Up To Money. Wake Up To Money from BBC Five Live. That's it from Wake Up To Money. You can download the podcast every Monday to Friday, so please make sure you subscribe. We'd also love it if you left us a review when you do. Get in touch. Keep the conversation going anytime as well on social media. Use the hashtag WakeUpToMoney.

25:45with boundary issues, or you want to know how to inspire and motivate your team. No problem is too big or too small. Give us a call and we'll help you solve the problems you're stuck on. Find Fixable wherever you listen to podcasts.